Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Ral-Clan on August 08, 2008, 12:49:33 PM
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(I've also posted this message to the Bars & Pipes newsgroup - my apologies to those who've already read it there).
Whew, it finally came. The day when my real Amiga hardware failed. The Amiga has been the centre of my home recording studio for about 10 years now. All the backup Amigas I have proved to have "issues" in one way or another that made them unusable for serious audio work.
So...with mixed emotions, it's time to move onto PC for audio recording. I'll miss the Amiga, but I won't miss the unreliable, aging hardware. The thing I'll miss most of all is Bars & Pipes (and possibly OctaMED).
So....I'm going to try and buy a PC that can emulate and run Bars & Pipes as if running on a real Amiga. Is this even possible? Is anyone doing this in a serious sense?
I would really appreciate any advice you guys can give me towards running Bars & Pipes with a PC emulator.
- any advice towards buying a PC with a mind towards Amiga emulation? What sort of microprocessor is good for UAE (Intel? AMD?)
- There is a local PC store which sells reconditioned older PC CPUs for cheap (i.e. $100 for a 1Ghz model). What is the minimum CPU speed I should consider for smooth Amiga emulation?
- any hardware or software tweaks to get B&P to run smooth under emulation?
- what sort of PC MIDI interfaces can be used with UAE?
- Can Bars & Pipes running in UAE by synchronized with audio recording applications running in Windows (i.e. Protools?) through MTC or Midi Clock?
- Failing a successful use of Bars & Pipes on the PC, is there any Windows software which gives a Bars & Pipes like experience on the PC?
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Failing a successful use of Bars & Pipes on the PC, is there any Windows software which gives a Bars & Pipes like experience on the PC?
I've not tried to emulate Amiga on PC for my sound work, but the closest thing for me personally to Bars and Pipes on a PC are the cakewalk products. Currently I use a slighter older version of Sonar. Heres a screen shot of their basic version, and it goes up from there...Sonar LE (Very basic version) (http://www.cakewalk.com/images/OEM/SONAR_LE_screenshot_lg.gif)
Others seem to prefer Cubase by Steinberg (http://www.steinberg.net/index.php?eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2FCE4_-_Project_Window_01.png&width=800m&height=600m&bodyTag=%3Cbody%20style%3D%22margin%3A0%3B%20background%3A%23fff%3B%22%3E&wrap=%3Ca%20href%3D%22javascript%3Aclose%28%29%3B%22%3E%20%7C%20%3C%2Fa%3E&md5=aa0bc04a8c509fabd90e565368ab0c9d). I tried a demo once and went back cakewalk though.
Many others use Protools. (http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=347&itemid=33114&langid=100&ref=hp-personal-m) It's concidered to be the industry standard, but I think that just because it's been around the longest on Mac. Personally I like the way sonar works better than Protools. Also Protools is a SW/HW setup. Their software only works on approved sound hardware, so you may need to spend more on hardware. Cakewalk (and I think Cubase) will use the clunky old sound card you have in the PC if that's all you have. I have an older cheap multi channel sound blaster card in my PC and it does great at CD quality.
If you're working strickly midi, 1ghz should be more than enough. If you get in to analog multitack HD recording, you're probably going to need a faster machine. I started out on a 1ghz box, and I now run cakewalk sonar on a dual core 2ghz amd with good results.
In any case I still miss the stability of Amiga. These pc products have tons of nifty tools, but when your system is always crashing or locking up do to OS and driver issues, it starts to take away from the advantages. It took a lot of driver experimentation and OS tweeks to get my PC box relatively stable. Never a problem for me on Amiga with B&P and Sunrize AD516 cards.
Plaz
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I´m sorry for you.
See you (next year?) in the Natami world. Don´t forget Amiga revival.
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Serendipity that NatAmi60 is just to become available???
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There is a version of octamed for windows that is still being developed. Hope this helps.
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/me plays 'The Last Post' on the kazoo in memory of the recently deceased Amiga
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Atheist wrote:
Serendipity that NatAmi60 is just to become available???
Well, I'll believe it when I see it. Unfortunately the phrase "just to become available" has been echoed many times since the days of the Walker. I'd never have thought that in 2008 I'd still be waiting for a new Amiga.
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You could probably find something free on the PC these days that would do everything Bars & Pipes can do.
You could always dual boot windows/Linux and try free Linux MIDI apps as well. ex: Rosegarden (http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/)
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What about using WinUAE? Emulated Amiga and you still get to use all of your familiar Amiga software.
Any modern PC has the horsepower to emulate the Amiga and its custom chips.
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You could probably find something free on the PC these days that would do everything Bars & Pipes
If you want to try some thing on the PC for free that's not too bad, go for Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/).
If you want to go linux, then I suggest trying a full blown self installing distribution package like Ubuntu Studio (http://ubuntustudio.org/). It includes Rosegarden and many other nice tools. It would probably do ok on a 1ghz machine.
Plaz
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BTW, is there no option for repairing the Amiga?
Plaz
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No option to repair. Believe me I've tried EVERYTHING. Unfortunately, the "backup" Amigas I have aren't suitable for audio use for one niggly reason or another. I've been through this before....and this time I don't have the energy to track down the hard to find parts to get the system working again. I just need something that works.
I'm looking forward to Amiga emulation though, so that I can continue to use some of my favourite apps.
I'll be have some great Amiga hardware for sale on Ebay in the new few months, though (A2000s, 3000s, graphics cards, accelerators, etc.). This will be the remainder of my big-box Amiga collection that will all be tested as working before being auctioned off.
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I'm sorry, but if you are really making the move to a new OS I'd spend the time and money to run a native program. There must be programs that have passed Bars & Pipes in features significantly in the last, what, ten years?
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mdivancic wrote:
I'm sorry, but if you are really making the move to a new OS I'd spend the time and money to run a native program. There must be programs that have passed Bars & Pipes in features significantly in the last, what, ten years?
Agreed... Give Renoise a look. Also, last I checked, MED SoundStudio was still available for Windows.
I just wouldn't trust the timing from an emulated solution. It's time to move on. :-(
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NoFastMem wrote:
mdivancic wrote:
I'm sorry, but if you are really making the move to a new OS I'd spend the time and money to run a native program. There must be programs that have passed Bars & Pipes in features significantly in the last, what, ten years?
Agreed... Give Renoise a look. Also, last I checked, MED SoundStudio was still available for Windows.
I just wouldn't trust the timing from an emulated solution. It's time to move on. :-(
I use old Amiga programs in Emulation for making music all the time... But only contribution to this thread would be to suggest a Mac with Logic Pro... That is a complete music workstation... My last album was almost completely built using Logic Pro, I did a bit of work in UAE with OctaMED, a few of my hardware synths got used and our mix engineer like to mix the stems in Pro Tools...
But proportionally, 92.4% of the work was done in Logic Pro, on my trusty MacBook Pro...
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If youre using some form of UAE then you'll really need something resembling a new system for it to give a reasonable result. A low end system these days can be picked up for about $200-$250 though, so its not too bad (granted these will have onboard gfx or very low spec gfx pcie card, but unless you want to play modern pc games then this wont be an issue). For that you'll get a cheap dual core system, 80-160 gig hdd space and 1 gig ram, which is enough for UAE use. Reason I mention this is 'cos you said something about $100 old pcs. Definately worth spending the extra if you have it. Another option if you can get your hands on it is amithlon. Runs a lot quicker than UAE, and a 1ghz pc will be enough to give good results. Also boots your pc straight into Amiga OS3.9, so you dont need to boot another OS to launch your emulator. Makes a better option than UAE for Amiga music software as well. Bare in mind though that with that option you get next to no custom chipset emulation, although this is only really an issue if old games and/or scene demos are your thing. Hope this info. is of some use.
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bloodline wrote:
But only contribution to this thread would be to suggest a Mac with Logic Pro... That is a complete music workstation...
I'd second that.
That's exactly what I use now and you can run windows(assuming it's intel) and UAE on a Mac too.
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If you're a musician, I would go with the Mac and OSX. I've been an electronic musician since the 80s and the Macintosh has been at the center of the studio to this very day. You can find a G4 tower for the same you would pay for a 1Ghz PC and it will blow the PC away.
I would not try to emulate any other system for audio, you should check out the native programs, as I'm positive you'll find something that can do what you need, possibly even Garage Band which often comes bundled with OSX on Mac G4 systems sold used. For an audio interface you can use the built in stereo audio which is very high quality or you can go pro with a PCI expansion or a Firewire device.
My advice is to stay away from any audio or hd peripherals that only support USB as Firewire on the Mac is much faster and stable and USB on the Mac, even 2.0 is like 50% slower on a Mac than it is on a PC.
I'd also stay away from digidesign hardware and software as they are very slow to upgrade software support for their hardware and very often you find yourself stuck with an older OS just to be able to use the hardware. Unless you have thousands of dollars for a full blown pro-tools rig, just stay away from their entry level stuff, they don't support it adequately in my opinion.
M-Audio makes some very inexpensive but nicely made peripherals. I have a USB MIDI controller by M-Audio and a Tascam 8ch firewire for audio in and out and I paid less than $300 total for both on my G5. I have an older G4 with a MOTU 2408 that I got very cheaply and that works very nicely.
good luck with it, whatever you decide.
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by ferrellsl on 2008/8/8 19:02:44
>What about using WinUAE? Emulated Amiga and you still get to use all of your familiar Amiga software.
>Any modern PC has the horsepower to emulate the Amiga and its custom chips.
That would be illogical. If someone is going to start all over with a new system that assuming can do better then the Amiga in all respects, then it would be better to use the PC program rather than an emulated program since emulator is going to involve remapping stuff to affect performance whereas native PC program would not involve that.
Of course, you can't perfectly emulate the Amiga and custom chips so other issues will be factors as well.
Didn't people use Atari ST music stuff even while Amigas were around?
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Wolfeman wrote:
If you're a musician, I would go with the Mac and OSX. I've been an electronic musician since the 80s and the Macintosh has been at the center of the studio to this very day. You can find a G4 tower for the same you would pay for a 1Ghz PC and it will blow the PC away.
No way!!!! The PPC Macs simply don't have the horsepower for serious Music making. Logic Pro was horrible on my G4... I always had to go back to a PC with Protools before the Intel Macs came along. I skipped the G5s because thy were too expensive compared with comparable PC systems (that even came in Notebook form).
Get a Cheap brand new iMac, and Logic Express... and be done with it.
I would not try to emulate any other system for audio, you should check out the native programs, as I'm positive you'll find something that can do what you need, possibly even Garage Band which often comes bundled with OSX on Mac G4 systems sold used.
Garageband is pretty good, but you are not going to do any Professional work with it.
For an audio interface you can use the built in stereo audio which is very high quality or you can go pro with a PCI expansion or a Firewire device.
The internal Audio of all Mac machines is actually surprising good, and has saved my neck a few time when my Audio interfaces have given out!
PC Notebook manufacturers have always used substandard Audio components... Grrrr...
My advice is to stay away from any audio or hd peripherals that only support USB as Firewire on the Mac is much faster and stable and USB on the Mac, even 2.0 is like 50% slower on a Mac than it is on a PC.
All my Audio interfaces are Firewire... I'm planning to get a MOTO Ultralite 3 soon... Firewire's biggest strength is that it also provides power to the unit.
But if you are on a budget USB, is suitable, and does the job.
I'd also stay away from digidesign hardware and software as they are very slow to upgrade software support for their hardware and very often you find yourself stuck with an older OS just to be able to use the hardware. Unless you have thousands of dollars for a full blown pro-tools rig, just stay away from their entry level stuff, they don't support it adequately in my opinion.
M-Audio makes some very inexpensive but nicely made peripherals. I have a USB MIDI controller by M-Audio and a Tascam 8ch firewire for audio in and out and I paid less than $300 total for both on my G5. I have an older G4 with a MOTU 2408 that I got very cheaply and that works very nicely.
good luck with it, whatever you decide.
I'm no fan of DigiDesign stuff either... I do like Edirol's FA series.
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amigaksi wrote:
by ferrellsl on 2008/8/8 19:02:44
>What about using WinUAE? Emulated Amiga and you still get to use all of your familiar Amiga software.
>Any modern PC has the horsepower to emulate the Amiga and its custom chips.
That would be illogical. If someone is going to start all over with a new system that assuming can do better then the Amiga in all respects, then it would be better to use the PC program rather than an emulated program since emulator is going to involve remapping stuff to affect performance whereas native PC program would not involve that.
Don't be weird, there are somethings that are just easier and more natural to do in an old program that only exists on the Amiga... OctaMED is one such program that in E-UAE was even used on my last Album!!!
Of course, you can't perfectly emulate the Amiga and custom chips so other issues will be factors as well.
Of course you can't... that must explain why I wasn't able to use OctaMED in UAE on my last Album... no wait, I DID use it... oh I'm getting all confused :roll:
Didn't people use Atari ST music stuff even while Amigas were around?
Only because it had a built in MIDI interface... Since I was into sampling the Amiga pissed all over the AtariST :-) And then I got a cheap MIDI interface for my Amiga... :-)
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bloodline wrote:
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I'm no fan of DigiDesign stuff either... I do like Edirol's FA series.
Not the FA series, but I have the UA-1000, great product. I use it with a laptop running Windows XP and Steinberg's Nuendo with Rode NT1 microphones for live recordings, never failed me. Got myself a Behringer BCF2000 controller because I got tired of mousing about, great product, even greater value for money :-D
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@amigaski
It isn't illogical at all. Have you considered what it will cost this man to buy all new PC software and learn all new software? I'm sure it's a rather expensive option in both time and money do this. And no one said the PC stuff was better. And I'm sure he'd like to use his existing data files as well.
I opted to do the same thing. I simply wasn't willing to throw out my software investment, buy new PC software that wasn't as familiar or as capable and then learn the new software.
It was much easier and cheaper to get an XP box and WinUAE.
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ferrellsl wrote:
It was much easier and cheaper to get an XP box and WinUAE.
Or a nice intel Mac (though not quite as cheap, and E-UAE isn't as easy to se up as WInUAE)... But I do prefer the Audio architecture of MacOSX :-)
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@ Thread:
It's all dependent on what you want to do "music wise" on a machine.
I don't have any first hand experience emulating MIDI based programs via UAE, but I'm sure (as others testify to) it will work fine.
To some (and probably a lot of Amiga based musicians) sample based trackers are the way they use machines music wise, and aside from the Windows version of MED Soundstudio, there really *aren't* any options aside from emulation.
To others, some just want to sequence MIDI, and while many PC programs do indeed sequence MIDI, you're often stuck with a huge overbloated interface that also wants to do hard disk recording amongst other things that just aren't conducive to the way a particular musician works.
I remember several years ago trying to find a simple program that would trigger samples via MIDI for the PC. I couldn't find anything usable after hours of searching, however, a look on Aminet and there were loads of small simple programs that did just that.
People still use ST's and Amigas because they're comfortable with the old software, and may not need all the extra bells and whistles on modern packages. I myself still bring a basic A1200 along to recording studios to provide click tracks and to do minor MIDI sequencing. If you've got WinUAE and a MIDI interface, I see no reason to "evolve" to more complex (and often bloated) software just to do simple MIDI tasks.
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@bloodline,
Garageband is pretty good, but you are not going to do any Professional work with it.
That might have been true in the past but now that Garageband is 24bit and can do 4 different real time effects per track at once I see no need to upgrade to Logic.
Click on the link in my Sig and listen to "Dancing Milk Cartons"
It was done with Garageband, AU plugins, a single MIDI Keyboard, and a microphone.
As far as the original poster goes though Gargageband cant do the type of MIDI setup he has going.
It all depends on what your writing and how you do it I guess?
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spihunter wrote:
@bloodline,
Garageband is pretty good, but you are not going to do any Professional work with it.
That might have been true in the past but now that Garageband is 24bit and can do 4 different real time effects per track at once I see no need to upgrade to Logic.
Click on the link in my Sig and listen to "Dancing Milk Cartons"
It was done with Garageband, AU plugins, a single MIDI Keyboard, and a microphone.
As far as the original poster goes though Gargageband cant do the type of MIDI setup he has going.
It all depends on what your writing and how you do it I guess?
There is nothing wrong with the quality of GarageBand, it is after all based on the Logic Audio engine!!! But it simply doesn't give you the control required in a Professional Studio.
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Wolfeman wrote:
My advice is to stay away from any audio or hd peripherals that only support USB as Firewire on the Mac is much faster and stable and USB on the Mac, even 2.0 is like 50% slower on a Mac than it is on a PC.
I can't say I completely agree with this advice.
My main inteface is a Yamaha 01x, which connects to my Macbook via Firewire and is a lovely piece of kit but when I'm over at my girlfriends house I use an M-Audio Ozone which connects to my iBook via USB. This is a perfectly usable piece of equipment and much, much, MUCH cheaper than the 01x, or any other FW audio/midi i/f.
Sure, if you have limitless cash, don't go USB but if you're on a budget there is absolutely bugger all wrong with it.
M-Audio makes some very inexpensive but nicely made peripherals. I have a USB MIDI controller
See? ;-)
by M-Audio and a Tascam 8ch firewire for audio in and out and I paid less than $300 total for both on my G5. I have an older G4 with a MOTU 2408 that I got very cheaply and that works very nicely.
good luck with it, whatever you decide.
Indeed.
And you are absolutely right about Gargeband. I'd forgotten all about that programme. I used it for a few months before upgrading to Logic and got some very good results.
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Hi Matt:
The PPC Macs simply don't have the horsepower for serious Music making. Logic Pro was horrible on my G4...
Hmmm.... again, I beg to differ (my, aren't I the contrary one today? :-D)
My main machine just now is my Macbook but I still do work on my iBook G4 and it's perfectly fine as long as you don't go plugin-mental.
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I'd also point out that the iBook is much better built than the rather flimsy Macbook.
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@bloodline: Well, dude, you're obviously no Mac fan, and that's fine, there are PC people and Mac people but if you look at benchmark tests between G4s and 1Ghz era PC processors, the mac wins every time. I have never run Logic, always Digital Performer [just plain "Performer" before that] and it has always been a terrific system. I can run a full 24 tracks on a G4 AGP 500Mhz with few hiccups. Of course it was maxed out to a full 2GB of ram :)
As for garage band, no way is that "pro" but in terms of what it can do out of the box and for damn near free, it's pretty good software. I don't use it though. I actually use "Reason" for soft synths/sampling.
I have not checked out the FA series stuff, right now I'm trying to find an inexpensive Tascam DAW controller for cheap on ebay. I've been seeing the US-2400 for as low as $600... hmmmm
@Wilse: The usb on a mac for some reason is bloody slow. ever try to hook up a usb hard drive or disc burner? omg it's awful. let alone a usb flash drive, it always takes twice as long to copy files and even on my dual processor G5.
For MIDI it's fine and even some audio interfaces but for my money and time the firewire is faster and more reliable.
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Wolfeman wrote:
right now I'm trying to find an inexpensive Tascam DAW controller for cheap on ebay. I've been seeing the US-2400 for as low as $600... hmmmm
I can heartily recommend the Yamaha 01x DAW controller:
SOS review (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar04/articles/yamaha01x.htm)
Got mine for £300 on eBay.
Firewire DAW controller and also works as an audio and MIDI i/f if you want it to. Possibly the best thing I've ever bought.
@Wilse: The usb on a mac for some reason is bloody slow.
That's as may be but it's still plenty fast enough for audio and MIDI work, as long as you don't go daft.
ever try to hook up a usb hard drive
Funnily enough, I've had to switch my external HD off of FW and onto USB as it was causing problems having it and the 01x on the same chain. Since it's been on USB everything has been much smoother.
The strange thing is, I heard all these horror stories about USB and duly bought FW kit but then had to use some USB stuff and my experience has been completely at odds with conventional opinion. (A lot of which I've now come to the conclusion is a load of snobby, old horsefeathers and to be taken with a pinch of salt.)
Anyway, I think these things depend on what individual set up you have and are also rather subjective but I've been pleasantly surprised by USB since being forced to use it and now realise that you don't have to go FW for a decent audio/MIDI setup.
For MIDI it's fine and even some audio interfaces .
Which is exactly what this thread is about so no need to shy away from USB for audio purposes.
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@wilse: it's not horsefeathers at all, but it seems you're not experiencing the problems most of us have or you're not noticing them.
Are you saying you're using your external HD for your audio workspace? how many tracks do you record and playback at once? Have you not noticed how slow copying files to and from any usb drive is when compared to firewire or pc usb? I simply can't believe you wouldn't notice the slowness. What mac do you have again? is it PPC or Intel? perhaps that is the answer?
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>by ferrellsl on 2008/8/9 14:34:03
>It isn't illogical at all. Have you considered what it will cost this man to buy all new PC software and learn all new software? I'm sure it's a rather expensive option in both time and money do this. And no one said the PC stuff was better. And I'm sure he'd like to use his existing data files as well.
Okay, I did see some cheap midi stuff for PCs. And he was considering other software packages and it is easier to get or write a utility to convert from Amiga MIDI to PC MIDI.
>I opted to do the same thing. I simply wasn't willing to throw out my software investment, buy new PC software that wasn't as familiar or as capable and then learn the new software.
>It was much easier and cheaper to get an XP box and WinUAE.
But now you're assuming the results are equivalent or tolerable. You can't really go by one's experience sometimes since there are hardware differences between PCs and Amigas and it's not that Amiga hardware is a subset of PC hardware. Heck, a few hundred years ago people observed and declared that the earth was flat. Mirages look like real water. Better to prove it deductively so you know what you are doing.
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wow, I was looking on google for some first hand advice and setup directions for doing amiga music through emulation and there just really isn't much out there:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&q=amiga+emulation+music+bars+pipes&btnG=Search
My guess is that due to the lack of info, that it isn't a popular choice but that doesn't mean it can't be done. My experience with it starts and ends with gaming.
hey, maybe you can break new ground and figure out how to do it for others to follow.
@bloodline: you mentioned you "did a bit of work in UAE with OctaMED", can you elaborate on how you set that up and made it work? was there any external midi triggering involved?
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amigaksi wrote:
>by ferrellsl on 2008/8/9 14:34:03
>It isn't illogical at all. Have you considered what it will cost this man to buy all new PC software and learn all new software? I'm sure it's a rather expensive option in both time and money do this. And no one said the PC stuff was better. And I'm sure he'd like to use his existing data files as well.
Okay, I did see some cheap midi stuff for PCs. And he was considering other software packages and it is easier to get or write a utility to convert from Amiga MIDI to PC MIDI.
Why would you need to convert anything? Midi, the last time I checked was a fairly mature and stable standard. A midi file from an Amiga should run just fine in a PC with the requisite software reader.
Certainly I've played plenty of both MIDI and MOD files made on amigas using PC software, on BeOS, Linux and Windows over the years without issue.
amigaksi wrote:
But now you're assuming the results are equivalent or tolerable. You can't really go by one's experience sometimes since there are hardware differences between PCs and Amigas and it's not that Amiga hardware is a subset of PC hardware. Heck, a few hundred years ago people observed and declared that the earth was flat. Mirages look like real water. Better to prove it deductively so you know what you are doing.
Well, here's the thing, you've already been told by a professional musician that it is comparable, indeed having had both real and emulated Amigas running side by side, soundwise there was no difference.
So, I have to ask, do you have a point in this paragraph? Because I for one can't see it.
Music was one artform I could never create, painting, drawing, writing, no issue, but music.. always eluded me :-(
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Are you saying you're using your external HD for your audio workspace? how many tracks do you record and playback at once? Have you not noticed how slow copying files to and from any usb drive is when compared to firewire or pc usb? I simply can't believe you wouldn't notice the slowness. What mac do you have again? is it PPC or Intel? perhaps that is the answer?
I have an external USB and Firewire hardrive hooked to my MacBook and I dont see these 50% slower USB speeds that you speak of. I had a similar set of USB and Firewire drives on my old G4 Mac Mini and never saw these slow downs compared to similar drives hooked to my PC. I also have a USB Audio interface hooked to the same bus.
I'm no expert but I think pro folks using Macs would have noticed a 50% slow down on USB drives. I dont see it.
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Wolfeman wrote:
@bloodline: Well, dude, you're obviously no Mac fan, and that's fine, there are PC people and Mac people but if you look at benchmark tests between G4s and 1Ghz era PC processors, the mac wins every time.
You did read the posts where he repeatedly recommended a Mac, right? ;-)
I think the point is more that the Core 2 Macs now pee all over the PPC line. Now if I came across a deal on a G5 tower I might bite but otherwise... No.
I did a lot of recording with GarageBand on my old PowerBook but it wouldn't have dealt with Logic 8 the way I use that (on a 2.4GHz Core 2 iMac). If you're using live effects you can always use more processing power.
@Wilse: The usb on a mac for some reason is bloody slow. ever try to hook up a usb hard drive or disc burner? omg it's awful. let alone a usb flash drive, it always takes twice as long to copy files and even on my dual processor G5.
For MIDI it's fine and even some audio interfaces but for my money and time the firewire is faster and more reliable.
I've never found it that bad, but I wonder if your experience is that file transfers aren't buffered the way they are in Windows (they changed that for Vista, everyone complained and it was switched back for SP1). That's no measure of the Mac's USB performance for audio hardware, etc., much as I prefer Firewire gear too. (I'm also on the lookout for a proper interface... Recording through on-board off an analog Yamaha mixer at the moment.)
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NoFastMem wrote:
Wolfeman wrote:
@bloodline: Well, dude, you're obviously no Mac fan, and that's fine, there are PC people and Mac people but if you look at benchmark tests between G4s and 1Ghz era PC processors, the mac wins every time.
You did read the posts where he repeatedly recommended a Mac, right? ;-)
No, I hate Mac!!! I'm gonna throw all of my expensive Macs away... I shall burn my Logic 8 package... Curse you iPhone... the bin for you!! iPod, I deny thee!!! I must expunge Apple from my house...
I think the point is more that the Core 2 Macs now pee all over the PPC line. Now if I came across a deal on a G5 tower I might bite but otherwise... No.
I did a lot of recording with GarageBand on my old PowerBook but it wouldn't have dealt with Logic 8 the way I use that (on a 2.4GHz Core 2 iMac). If you're using live effects you can always use more processing power.
Quite right... if you are just using Logic as a multitrack recorder, then a nice fast Hard Drive is far more important than a fast CPU... but as an electronic artist, it's rare for me to have a channel with less than 8 effects inserts... and given the average number of channels per song on my last Album was 30, you can see why I need the power of a modern dual core intel chip not some old G4... and this does not include all the bus routing I like to use...
I also have the need to have my set up totally portable, which means laptop... and the Powerful PPC chips are just too hot and electricity hungry for a laptop.
@Wilse: The usb on a mac for some reason is bloody slow. ever try to hook up a usb hard drive or disc burner? omg it's awful. let alone a usb flash drive, it always takes twice as long to copy files and even on my dual processor G5.
For MIDI it's fine and even some audio interfaces but for my money and time the firewire is faster and more reliable.
I've never found it that bad, but I wonder if your experience is that file transfers aren't buffered the way they are in Windows (they changed that for Vista, everyone complained and it was switched back for SP1). That's no measure of the Mac's USB performance for audio hardware, etc., much as I prefer Firewire gear too. (I'm also on the lookout for a proper interface... Recording through on-board off an analog Yamaha mixer at the moment.)
While USB2 is totally horrible for Hard drives... audio interfaces work fine, but the USB does not provide enough power to run the interface, so Firewire is far better. I've noticed that Firewire Audio interfaces have slightly lower latency, but I don't think this is due the bus, but more because Firewire devices are more expensive and thus better quality units (as manufactures can afford to use better components).
Punkie: This will be my next audio interface...
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite-mk3
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bloodline wrote:
While USB2 is totally horrible for Hard drives... audio interfaces work fine, but the USB does not provide enough power to run the interface, so Firewire is far better. I've noticed that Firewire Audio interfaces have slightly lower latency, but I don't think this is due the bus, but more because Firewire devices are more expensive and thus better quality units (as manufactures can afford to use better components).
Maybe better drivers as well... You wouldn't believe the difference using the onboard iMac sound with Windows vs. OSX. All down to the software.
Punkie: This will be my next audio interface...
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite-mk3
Looks nice! I dunno about only having two XLRs, though. I'm recording the GCSE performances and other things at the school now and in practice it boils down to having a few mics set up and occasionally DI-ing a keyboard. Guess it's only the price of a couple of balanced TRS leads, but I dunno.
I think I need something I can mix live with if need be. (i.e. with real knobs.) Especially since my work laptop confines me to Windows land, leaving me out on a limb with Audacity and a prayer if things start effing up.
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>by the_leander on 2008/8/9 22:28:28
>Quote:
amigaksi wrote:
>by ferrellsl on 2008/8/9 14:34:03
>>...And I'm sure he'd like to use his existing data files as well.
>Why would you need to convert anything? Midi, the last time I checked was a fairly mature and stable standard. A midi file from an Amiga should run just fine in a PC with the requisite software reader.
It was ferrellsl who suggested that he wanted to use his existing files so if there's no conversion involved then his point is moot.
>Certainly I've played plenty of both MIDI and MOD files made on amigas using PC software, on BeOS, Linux and Windows over the years without issue.
Later, you write:
>Music was one artform I could never create, painting, drawing, writing, no issue, but music.. always eluded me
"Without issue" from non-music person.
>> amigaksi wrote:
But now you're assuming the results are equivalent or tolerable. You can't really go by one's experience sometimes since there are hardware differences between PCs and Amigas and it's not that Amiga hardware is a subset of PC hardware. Heck, a few hundred years ago people observed and declared that the earth was flat. Mirages look like real water. Better to prove it deductively so you know what you are doing.
>Well, here's the thing, you've already been told by a professional musician that it is comparable, indeed having had both real and emulated Amigas running side by side, soundwise there was no difference.
>So, I have to ask, do you have a point in this paragraph? Because I for one can't see it.
You did miss the point. One person experiencing the music to be sounding the same does not prove that every combination music produced will sound the same nor does it prove that it is the same even for that instance for all people. Even MP3 and uncompressed linear audio sounds the same but they are in fact different. To prove it's the same on both platforms, you need to prove through the hardware resources used on the both, not by someone's subjective taste. For example, you can try to prove that there is no drift or distortion in the timing. So the analogy that a few hundred years ago the earth was declared to be flat applies. I am sure the EXPERTs back then also claimed earth to be flat that's why Columbus had a hard time. What happens if someone comes hundreds of years later and states there's this difference with a certain music. Mirage example also applies because you can be listening to music that is actually not the original but a distorted version but without a deeper analysis you take it to be the same.
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Wolfeman wrote:
@wilse: it's not horsefeathers at all, but it seems you're not experiencing the problems most of us have or you're not noticing them.
Which is exactly my point; this is mostly subjective and I'm not experiencing it so to me it *is* horsefeathers.
(Then again, perhaps it's me. I ate olives for years because my peers insisted they are delicious. One day I realised the things are absolutely bogging. Never touched them since, though everyone else I know still loves them.)
Are you saying you're using your external HD for your audio workspace?
Sometimes, yes. And when I do, it works just fine. However, I usually try to bring whichever project I'm working on over to the internal drive, again, only because of conventional hearsay, not due to any personal experience.
how many tracks do you record and playback at once?
Depends. usually between 10-20.
Have you not noticed how slow copying files to and from any usb drive is when compared to firewire or pc usb?
Nope.
I simply can't believe you wouldn't notice the slowness.
Well, if you don't believe me there isn't really a great deal I can do about that, other than invite you round to see for yourself. ;-)
What mac do you have again? is it PPC or Intel? perhaps that is the answer?
Nah, sorry - I have both: iBook G4, 1.33GHz and Macbook core duo 2GHz.
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spihunter wrote:
I have an external USB and Firewire hardrive hooked to my MacBook and I dont see these 50% slower USB speeds that you speak of.
Not just me then. :pint:
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amigaksi wrote:
>Certainly I've played plenty of both MIDI and MOD files made on amigas using PC software, on BeOS, Linux and Windows over the years without issue.
Later, you write:
>Music was one artform I could never create, painting, drawing, writing, no issue, but music.. always eluded me
"Without issue" from non-music person.
Key word in the sentence is played.
But hey what would I know about sound, afterall I only used to setup and calibrate surround sound systems...
And Hi Def TV's.. Which I have to be honest was more difficult.
amigaksi wrote:
>So, I have to ask, do you have a point in this paragraph? Because I for one can't see it.
You did miss the point. One person experiencing the music to be sounding the same does not prove that every combination music produced will sound the same nor does it prove that it is the same even for that instance for all people. Even MP3 and uncompressed linear audio sounds the same but they are in fact different. To prove it's the same on both platforms, you need to prove through the hardware resources used on the both, not by someone's subjective taste. For example, you can try to prove that there is no drift or distortion in the timing. So the analogy that a few hundred years ago the earth was declared to be flat applies. I am sure the EXPERTs back then also claimed earth to be flat that's why Columbus had a hard time. What happens if someone comes hundreds of years later and states there's this difference with a certain music. Mirage example also applies because you can be listening to music that is actually not the original but a distorted version but without a deeper analysis you take it to be the same.
Which is great and all but you realise there are differences even in different variants of the same models of an Amiga, right? Which kind of leaves your point completely moot.
As near as damnit is all you will ever get, because even between different variants and models of the Amiga because there are differences.
For instance, just on the A3000 there were something like 9 different variants, all with subtly different timings and all with their own unique quirks, for instance my particular one was one of only 3 models that could actually boot up without the need for a scsi hard drive to be present. Then there are differences in the chips themselves - some socketed and others surface mounted. All of these things could throw off the results at the level of testing you are on about.
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Have a look at Reason.
http://www.propellerheads.se/ (http://www.propellerheads.se/)
Superb sound.
you need a beefy PC though.
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Don't hesitate to use old applications coming from the amiga on your pc, without emulation, for your pleasure. Among them, try the legendary Symphony tracker, available with a 3D background for Win32 and its amazing effects, in a single .exe that could be copied on a floppy disk. Mail me if you use it, just for fun ;) Two users at least here lol/
In a pro way, try Reason (a lot of studios create songs only with this tool and master them with Protools). Don't forget :
- protools (avid) to edit/master and exchange audio projects and say that you're a pro (the point of protools LOL)
- cubase (steinberg) or nuendo (from the same editor) if you have to work seriously with video files. Nuendo uses the cubase audio engine and offers more slots to load virtual instruments. Midi implementation in steinberg products is very nice.
- if you want to keep the amiga spirit, you could buy Samplitude (Magix).
Cubase could be your new BnP.
Good luck and keep your migs.
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>Key word in the sentence is played.
>But hey what would I know about sound, afterall I only used to setup and calibrate surround sound systems...
>And Hi Def TV's.. Which I have to be honest was more difficult.
It's a subjective experience just listening to sound and claiming both platforms are producing equivalent sound. I know some people can detect music defects between two compositions that normal people can't detect. I think they say some people have "musical ears". Even so with musical ears, it doesn't prove the two platforms are equivalent.
>>You did miss the point. One person experiencing the music to be sounding the same does not prove that every combination music produced will sound the same nor does it prove that it is the same even for that instance for all people. Even MP3 and uncompressed linear audio sounds the same but they are in fact different...
>Which is great and all but you realise there are differences even in different variants of the same models of an Amiga, right? Which kind of leaves your point completely moot.
It doesn't leave the point moot since the hardware spec is the same or a subset in the new hardware spec which is what I stated originally would be needed.
>As near as damnit is all you will ever get, because even between different variants and models of the Amiga because there are differences.
>For instance, just on the A3000 there were something like 9 different variants, all with subtly different timings and all with their own unique quirks, for instance my particular one was one of only 3 models that could actually boot up without the need for a scsi hard drive to be present. Then there are differences in the chips themselves - some socketed and others surface mounted. All of these things could throw off the results at the level of testing you are on about.
We are talking whether they are equivalent to an Amiga so if the hardware specs of the PC being used to emulate the Amiga sound functionality were a subset or equal to that of Amigas, you can say the two platforms are producing identical sound. What exactly are the differences between an original (OCS) Amiga 1000 sound functionality and Amiga 4000 sound functionality? They both use the same timing and equal spec DACs (OCS compatible). It's a different story when you know the hardware specs are different.
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>- cubase (steinberg) or nuendo (from the same editor) if you have to work seriously with video files. Nuendo uses the cubase audio engine and offers more slots to load virtual instruments. Midi implementation in steinberg products is very nice.
I think that's the one I saw bundled with Atari ST machines as well, but had some sort of hardware add-on.
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amigaksi wrote:
>Key word in the sentence is played.
>But hey what would I know about sound, afterall I only used to setup and calibrate surround sound systems...
>And Hi Def TV's.. Which I have to be honest was more difficult.
It's a subjective experience just listening to sound and claiming both platforms are producing equivalent sound. I know some people can detect music defects between two compositions that normal people can't detect. I think they say some people have "musical ears". Even so with musical ears, it doesn't prove the two platforms are equivalent.
You mean someone who has, for instance someone who has tested consistantly to having hearing sensitivity and range in the top 1%?
Indeed when I was given the results I was asked if I wouldn't prefer going into training on Sonar equipment rather then going in as a mechanic in the navy...
Dunno about musical ears, but I would pit my hearing against anyones.
amigaksi wrote:
It doesn't leave the point moot since the hardware spec is the same or a subset in the new hardware spec which is what I stated originally would be needed.
But again, given that there were differences in hardware, in timing, any measurements you took from any given model of Amiga would not necessarily corrolate with the output of another model Amiga or even different variant of the same model. As I said, as near as damnit.
amigaksi wrote:
We are talking whether they are equivalent to an Amiga so if the hardware specs of the PC being used to emulate the Amiga sound functionality were a subset or equal to that of Amigas, you can say the two platforms are producing identical sound.
Given that even the Realtek AC'97 codec produces sound as good as if not better then any Amiga native chip ever put into production, and that the said codec is considered obsolete these days, in favour of much more advanced and capable chipsets, I really think you can put this arguement to rest.
amigaksi wrote:
What exactly are the differences between an original (OCS) Amiga 1000 sound functionality and Amiga 4000 sound functionality? They both use the same timing and equal spec DACs (OCS compatible). It's a different story when you know the hardware specs are different.
For that you would have to ask someone who knows the hardware to that level, I suggest Karlos or Bloodline (fnar!), I do remember them discussing how there was a huge amount of incosistancy within different variants of the same model when they were doing timings testing.
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the_leander wrote:
amigaksi wrote:
What exactly are the differences between an original (OCS) Amiga 1000 sound functionality and Amiga 4000 sound functionality? They both use the same timing and equal spec DACs (OCS compatible). It's a different story when you know the hardware specs are different.
For that you would have to ask someone who knows the hardware to that level, I suggest Karlos or Bloodline (fnar!), I do remember them discussing how there was a huge amount of incosistancy within different variants of the same model when they were doing timings testing.
Paula was essentially unchanged across the Amiga range... I don't think it even had a process change so the output should be identical!
The DAC inside Paula was not linear though, and that gives its output a natural colour not found in modern "perfect" DACs.
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ral-clan wrote:
(I've also posted this message to the Bars & Pipes newsgroup - my apologies to those who've already read it there).
Whew, it finally came. The day when my real Amiga hardware failed. The Amiga has been the centre of my home recording studio for about 10 years now. All the backup Amigas I have proved to have "issues" in one way or another that made them unusable for serious audio work.
So...with mixed emotions, it's time to move onto PC for audio recording. I'll miss the Amiga, but I won't miss the unreliable, aging hardware. The thing I'll miss most of all is Bars & Pipes (and possibly OctaMED).
So....I'm going to try and buy a PC that can emulate and run Bars & Pipes as if running on a real Amiga. Is this even possible? Is anyone doing this in a serious sense?
I would really appreciate any advice you guys can give me towards running Bars & Pipes with a PC emulator.
- any advice towards buying a PC with a mind towards Amiga emulation? What sort of microprocessor is good for UAE (Intel? AMD?)
- There is a local PC store which sells reconditioned older PC CPUs for cheap (i.e. $100 for a 1Ghz model). What is the minimum CPU speed I should consider for smooth Amiga emulation?
- any hardware or software tweaks to get B&P to run smooth under emulation?
- what sort of PC MIDI interfaces can be used with UAE?
- Can Bars & Pipes running in UAE by synchronized with audio recording applications running in Windows (i.e. Protools?) through MTC or Midi Clock?
- Failing a successful use of Bars & Pipes on the PC, is there any Windows software which gives a Bars & Pipes like experience on the PC?
Back in the 90's I used a plain A1200 with midi interface controlling a synthmodule. Two years back I tried a file created with this setup on WINUAE running Bars n pipes and the same module. It actually produced a more tight version on the same piece of music. So if you like Bars n pipes and are happy with the program why not continue using it. If you migrate perhaps you can try SONAR as an alternative to the Steinberg programs its also very good.
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I used WINUAE on XP and a p4 2.6ghz intel northwood for that experiment. It worked fine no tweaks needed.
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>You mean someone who has, for instance someone who has tested consistantly to having hearing sensitivity and range in the top 1%?
...
>Dunno about musical ears, but I would pit my hearing against anyones.
You missed the point again, instead you are now making another claim which would be hard to prove. Your experience (by hearing various modules) does not prove that running an emulated amiga sound software and sound software on original amiga is the same. There may be some sound samples that you have not tried that are different EVEN FOR YOU. And even those that sound the same FOR YOU, may actually be distorted and different like in the case of MP3 and uncompressed linear audio. And please read rest of the post before you reply.
>But again, given that there were differences in hardware, in timing,
There aren't timing differences in all the Amiga models (as per spec and as I have tried it) so it's not a given.
>>amigaksi wrote:
>>We are talking whether they are equivalent to an Amiga so if the hardware specs of the PC being used to emulate the Amiga sound functionality were a subset or equal to that of Amigas, you can say the two platforms are producing identical sound.
>Given that even the Realtek AC'97 codec produces sound as good as if not better then any Amiga native chip ever put into production, and that the said codec is considered obsolete these days, in favour of much more advanced and capable chipsets, I really think you can put this arguement to rest.
Again, I am also stating that if the hardware is a subset of the Amiga hardware like OCS is of ECS & AGA, yeah it should give identical output. However, the point is whether the Amiga emulated sound output is the same as Amiga sound output on original. All I need to show is ONE example where it's different and THAT puts the argument to rest. I already have tried to port over Amiga slideshow software with background audio running to the PC with a Sound Blaster and IT IS DIFFERENT! The Sound Blaster happen to have a 1,000,000Hz crystal to compute sampling rates and the Amiga uses a 3,579,500Hz timer so in this case using a divisor of 325 to get around 11Khz rate when ported to a Sound Blaster deviated the sampling rate enough that every few minutes the sound went out of sync by a second or so thus ruining the slideshow's sync with the audio. And don't tell me the PC timer can be used to emulate the sampling since that timer is also only 1.19318 Mhz.
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>by cicero790 on 2008/8/11 18:25:59
>I used WINUAE on XP and a p4 2.6ghz intel northwood for that experiment. It worked fine no tweaks needed.
I just saw as much of the earth as I could and it's flat. Sorry, but we need to modify the history books and as far as all those fairy tales of people flying around the earth, that was due to nonlinear space and using modulo arithmetic axes of space you can fly from one end and pop in on the other end and leaving the earth as still being flat fitting in with many people's observations.
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this topic has been covered a multitude of times.
so im not going to add anything to it other than....
Firewire and usb2 are exactly the same throughput speed wise.
However Firewire is lower latency.
which makes it more suitable for Audio use.
Also nothing EVER sounds like the REAL THING.
Iv got a SIDSTATION and a plugin for SID in cubase
while it sounds great it doesnt sound like the sidstation.
The Amiga's 8bit sound chip sounds MUCH better than any other 8bit emulation or hardware.
You may now continue your argument.
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man, there are a lot of opinionated mo-fos in this thread [on this forum?]
@wilse
Mac USB is slower, you can google various benchmark tests, that's just a fact. argue it all you want. I'm extremely happy for you if it doesn't haunt you or bother you, seriously, but PLEASE spare me the down-the-nose "addytude" regarding your belief of the phenomenon. It is not hogwash, horsefeathers, or otherwise delusional. Firewire is more stable and allows for a lot less latency, especially if you run a 24+ track system like I do where I am recording entire bands live and 16+ tracks recording in at once is the norm. case closed
@bloodline:
I did read that you used macs but your initial reply to me was rather... umm... well, let's just put it behind us and never speak of it again. ;)
you guys are awesome, seriously, I love people who are as passionate about their music and their gadgets as I am.
cheers
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amigaksi wrote:
>You mean someone who has, for instance someone who has tested consistantly to having hearing sensitivity and range in the top 1%?
...
>Dunno about musical ears, but I would pit my hearing against anyones.
You missed the point again, instead you are now making another claim which would be hard to prove.
My hearing tests and their results are a matter of record.
What, you want me to get a photostat of them for you?
amigaksi wrote:
Your experience (by hearing various modules) does not prove that running an emulated amiga sound software and sound software on original amiga is the same. There may be some sound samples that you have not tried that are different EVEN FOR YOU. And even those that sound the same FOR YOU, may actually be distorted and different like in the case of MP3 and uncompressed linear audio. And please read rest of the post before you reply.
The reason some lower rate mp3's sound "better" over Paula (though AHI) then say on a pc is that Paula is very good at dealing with the lower frequencies then most AC97 chipsets. That said, on a high bitrate mp3, the differences become obvious, with the PC producing a much cleaner sounding piece. In fact I believe Dave Haynie once wrote a full series of articles regarding this on Usenet some years back. (No, I am not going to start wading through comp.sys.amiga.hardware for it).
amigaksi wrote:
>But again, given that there were differences in hardware, in timing,
There aren't timing differences in all the Amiga models (as per spec and as I have tried it) so it's not a given.
But there are on some and that alone is enough to debunk your arguement.
amigaksi wrote:
Again, I am also stating that if the hardware is a subset of the Amiga hardware like OCS is of ECS & AGA, yeah it should give identical output. However, the point is whether the Amiga emulated sound output is the same as Amiga sound output on original. All I need to show is ONE example where it's different and THAT puts the argument to rest. I already have tried to port over Amiga slideshow software with background audio running to the PC with a Sound Blaster and IT IS DIFFERENT! The Sound Blaster happen to have a 1,000,000Hz crystal to compute sampling rates and the Amiga uses a 3,579,500Hz timer so in this case using a divisor of 325 to get around 11Khz rate when ported to a Sound Blaster deviated the sampling rate enough that every few minutes the sound went out of sync by a second or so thus ruining the slideshow's sync with the audio. And don't tell me the PC timer can be used to emulate the sampling since that timer is also only 1.19318 Mhz.
That is not using an Emulator though, is it? It's a port using native hardware without any form of emulation wrapper. Also, if you know the basic sampling speeds of two devices you should be able to correct for one to the other to maintain sync.
Again, this isn't what it was discussing, what we were discussing was that an Emulation of an 8bit (or 14bit through AHI) sound chip over vastly superior hardware is going to produce the same effect as using the original hardware. The answer, to my ears, and to the ears of a professional music producer and artist is yes.
You can argue that it might not be "exact" when measured under some insanely convoluted system of your choosing that no human ear could ever detect in a million years, but that isn't the point, the point is, does it sound different, are there distortions between emulation and real, the answer is no.
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ral-clan wrote:
(I've also posted this message to the Bars & Pipes newsgroup - my apologies to those who've already read it there).
Whew, it finally came. The day when my real Amiga hardware failed. The Amiga has been the centre of my home recording studio for about 10 years now. All the backup Amigas I have proved to have "issues" in one way or another that made them unusable for serious audio work.
What kind of issues???
Lack of speed?
Lack of timing?
Hardware failures?
Hard disks flapping wings sound?
Corrupted floppy drives?
Have you accelerated Amigas A1200 or A4000 that are suitable to be expanded with Mediator PCI and adding some PC audio cards?
(For Amiga it exists AHI Drivers for Soundblaster 4.1 digital, Soundblaster 128 and Terratec512i Digital [perhaps maybe even some Audigy cards... I do not remember).
The AHI-standard drivers for music cards provide support for Sound Blaster PCI128 cards based on ES1371, ES1373, CT5880 and EV1938 chipsets.
Or perhaps do you have some modern Amigas that can run modern Amiga audio software flawlessly?
(AmigaONE, Pegasos)
So...with mixed emotions, it's time to move onto PC for audio recording. I'll miss the Amiga, but I won't miss the unreliable, aging hardware. The thing I'll miss most of all is Bars & Pipes (and possibly OctaMED).
Can't you ENHANCE your actual Amiga by purchasing a PC and creating a home network?
So....I'm going to try and buy a PC that can emulate and run Bars & Pipes as if running on a real Amiga. Is this even possible? Is anyone doing this in a serious sense?
YES!
You can run WinUAE and run Bars & Pipes from it.
ALSO:
Alfred Faust provides a PC version of SuperJam licensed for free download on his site:
http://www.hansfaust.de/barsnpipes/index.html
It is good Amiga software ported on PCs. Old but still reliable...
- There is a local PC store which sells reconditioned older PC CPUs for cheap (i.e. $100 for a 1Ghz model). What is the minimum CPU speed I should consider for smooth Amiga emulation?
1850MHZ (AMD 2500+ FSB400) or Pentium IV 2GHz is a MUST in my experience...
- any hardware or software tweaks to get B&P to run smooth under emulation?
What do you mean by that?
First: download WinUAE...
Then you choose preferred Amiga emulation 68000, 68020, 68040, the correct emulation timing for Amiga emulated chips...
Set the MIDI from emulator...
Create virtual hard disk or reserve a PC partition to emulator
Install your own kickstart 3.x and AmigaOS 3.x
Download and install most recent version of B&P from Alfred Faust site...
DONE
- what sort of PC MIDI interfaces can be used with UAE?
UAE usually refers to onboard windows drivers and uses local hardware
No need for more...
- Can Bars & Pipes running in UAE by synchronized with audio recording applications running in Windows (i.e. Protools?) through MTC or Midi Clock?
Check with cronometer (or professional SMPTE controller) and control if there are problems of timinsg issues, flaws, or entire sequence were were dropped.
Check with professional phonometer if there are any differences in the sound output.
If you find no problems by checking with cronometer and phonometer, then you are up and running!
REMEMBER:
Emulation is a very hard task, Amiga Emulation is a very pain for crappy PC hardware (EVEN OVERPUMPED PC HARDWARE) and in machines under 1GHz can cause problems in emulated Amiga if running Audio software and running at the same time Audio PC programs from the PC side...
This is why a local network o computers is the preferred choice...
- Failing a successful use of Bars & Pipes on the PC, is there any Windows software which gives a Bars & Pipes like experience on the PC?
Cubasis??? (+Cubase)
Pro-tools???
However try to FIX your hardware problems with Amiga and check also these beautiful modern Amiga programs that I think you are unaware of:
- HD-REC
http://www.hd-rec.de/
(http://www.hd-rec.de/HD-Rec/bilder/hdrec_scrshot001_med.gif)
HD-Rec is a powerful MIDI/audio sequencer for Amiga OS. It combines comfortable MIDI notation with extensive audio editing within the same application, running always 100% synchron. To achieve this, HD-Rec takes full advantage of the AHI system for audio and the CAMD system for MIDI input and output. HD-Rec is 100% system friendly, so you can be sure that it will run on your existing and future hardware.
HD-Rec has a powerful plugin interface allowing a wide range of plugins, like patch editors, softsynth or visualisation plugins. Beside this, it has an easy interface for audio effects, like a high quality reverb, delay, chorus and more.
*very user friendly and intuitive to use
*16 bit / 11.025-96.0 kHz non-destructive audio recording & editing, not limited by RAM
*32 bit audio realtime effects (reverb, delay, chorus, compressor...)
*Bars&Pipes style notator for MIDI elements
*Audiomaster style editor for audio elements
*uses AHI for audio and CAMD for MIDI
*powerful plugin system for MIDI/audio applications like softsynths or patcheditors
*256 tracks (MIDI/audio)
*supports .aiff, .wav, .maud, .raw, .cdda, .8svx, .mp3, .mod and .mid files
Works better on new Amigas equpped with audiocards and AHI...
- Digibooster PRO tracker
http://www.digiboosterpro.de/indexe.php
(http://www.digiboosterpro.de/images/dbp2.jpg)
DBPro is a so called tracker program. It´s possible to produce your own music by using samples. So called pattern will be programmed by typing in sequences and commandos. Put together the patterns lead to a whole music track.
With the current version of DBPro it is possible to manage up to:
Trackfeatures:
128 Tracks
256 Samples (sound files with no size limitation)
1024 Patterns
1024 Positions
within one song.
Track format loading:
Digibooster 1.x (digi)
Protracker (mod)
Oktalyzer (okt)
Octamed (mmd0-mmd3)
OctamedSoundStudio (oss)
FastTracker (xm)
ScreamTracker (s3m)
There is the possibility to save the tracks not only as the Dbm format but also as Xm or Mod format.
Sample format loading:
IFF 8SVX (mono - 8 Bit)
IFF 16SV (mono - 16 Bit)
RIFF WAV (mono/stereo - 8/16 Bit)
AIFF (mono/stereo - 8/16 Bit)
MP3 (CBR) Import LayerI-III
With the following extras there are nearly no limits for the creativity:
(B)eats (P)er (M)inute Pitcher
DSP Echo (Echo Delay, Feedback, Mix and Cross)
Volume envelopes
Balance envelopes
Roland TB-303 "GrooveBox" Emulation 8not realtime)
HD recording for samples using AHI Harddiskrecord
Optional realtime 32 bit HIFI mixing with linear interpolation
Two different commands per trace at the same time
Almost all shortcuts and commands are compatible with ProTracker
Up to 7 Oktaven
CyberGraphX & Picasso96 card support
and many more ...
Thanks to AHI support every AHI soundcard can be used
With a little patience, interest and some feeling for rhythm within your venes you will soon discover all those various possibilities for producing music with Digibooster Professional.
We wish you thereby much success and fun!
System requirements:
(Amiga - Minimum configuration)
68020 CPU
2 MB availble RAM
Kickstart 2.0
ahi.device Version 4 (or better)
asl.library
iffparse.library
reqtools.library
(Amiga - Recommended configuration)
68060 CPU
10 MB availble RAM (for huge projects with 16 bit samples even more might be required)
Kickstart 3.1
Gfx card
Sound card
(Pegasos - configuration)
Gx CPU (Since 68k is still emulated at present)
min. 2 MB availble RAM
MorphOs 1.4
ahi-device Version 4 (or better)
asl.library
iffparse.library
reqtools.library
- Audio Evolution
http://www.audio-evolution.com/AE4/index.html
(http://www.audio-evolution.com/AE4/AEImages/AE4intro.gif)
Up to 60 (stereo) samples simultaneously (depending on processor power and harddisk controller).
Any sample rate is supported (depending on the used soundcard).
Full duplex recording for simultaneous recording and playback.
Each mixer channel gives you control over the following features:
Volume
Panning
Mute
Solo
Subgroup (1-4) assignment
3 insert effects with on/off switch
3-band EQ with on/off switch
4 Aux sends
Every channel has a separate PPM volume display.
Separate window for 4 subgroups with volume, mute and solo per group.
Full mixer-automation: channel volume, panning, mutes, master volume, subgroup volumes, subgroup mutes and even insert effect parameters can be automated. Automation events can be edited directly on the timeline or through an event list. They can also be recorded during playback by mouse or MIDI remote control (touch and latch mode).
OS4 native realtime effects with real-time parameter control, on/off switch and metering (where applicable). Possible CPU overload is detected, preventing lock-ups during playback.
Expansion window with direct access to a 3-band equalizer and 4 auxillaries (effect sends).
Non-destructive non-linear editing (cut, copy, paste, move, split, trim, crossfade) using the time line display.
Unlimited undo for time line editing operations.
Regionize tool: find pauses or moments of relative silence and automatically place markers or split the region into subregions. The marker information can be exported to the CD burning package BurnIt which is great for mastering old vinyl records or live recordings: all separate tracks can be identified automatically.
Grid options to align regions: grid size can be set in milliseconds, bars/beats up to 1/64th note and videoframes (24, 25, 30fps)
A marker mechanism on top of the timeline lets you place locators, punch in/out markers and the time marker easily, giving quick and accurate access to these items.
Metronome and time signature settings.
Separate window for (destructive) sample editing with the usual features like cut, copy, paste and erase range. Direct to disk, not limited by memory.
Effect plug-ins like Compressor, Delay, Noise Gate, Chorus, 3-Band EQ, Parametric EQ and Reverb can be applied both realtime and non-realtime.
Synchronisation to other equipment or applications:
MIDI (by direct serial port communication or using the CAMD library):
By sending a MIDI start-command and a Song Position Pointer, you can synchronize audio with an external MIDI sequencer. You can also receive MIDI start-commands.
AREXX
Bars&Pipes sync tool
Master Control Bus to synchronize to and control other applications that support the MCB. The MCB will be released for OS4.
Dolby Pro Logic encoder for mastering 4 mono tracks to the Dolby Pro Logic surround format. Note that this is only an experimental tool: no realtime auditioning or sound positioning is possible.
Project-based: a separate directory for each separate project is created to manage your samples in an easier way
- AHX
http://www.amigau.com/amigarealm/ahx/main.html
(http://www.amigau.com/amigarealm/ahx/images/ahx_01.gif)
AHX is a protracker-like music editor that was designed especially to create C64-like synthetic tunes. There is no support for sampled instruments as chip tunes are made to be as small in size as possible. So an average AHX tune has a length of about 200 bytes - 5 kbytes (unpacked). All waveforms of the C64 are supported: Triangle, Sawtooth, Square and White Noise. Also Hi-/Lo-Pass filtering effects are supported (ring-modulation is hopefully to come in AHXv3). Check out the News/Updates-Page for the changes in the current version!
Finally the 68000-Version of the Editor is out (BIG THanX to Buzz/Maniacs for giving me the source of his hacked 2.1-000er version-it helped a lot!)
Fixed some minor bugs and added some little features. Refer to the History file please.
Fully Protracker keyboard-compatible track editor featuring variable pattern-length, single-voice patterns, Protracker-Module-Import and Optimize-function.
Sub-Songs.
Powerful synthetic instruments-editor featuring all C64 waveforms as triangle, sawtooth, square and white noise.
Instrument-specific apreggio-/macro list featuring fixed/variable notes.
Player features: square modulation, vibrato control, note slide, transpose, hi-/lo-pass filter, hardcut, multiple speed CIA, 68000-compatible, supports using your own cia for multiple speed modules now!
Full multitasking- and graphics board-support. (Runs on CyberGraphix, etc.)
Built in AmigaGuide help; internal help system to explain all commands etc.
VolumeMeters, CPU-usage display
AmigaOS-compliant: uses ASL- and Intuition-Requesters.
Fully controlable via keyboard, no long mouse-movements needed.
Player for Delitracker (using DeliTracker's NotePlayer system) shipped.
Binary-/Assembler-/BlitzBasicII-Player for your own productions included, AmosPro-Player, E-Module and C/C++ Module available (see Productions page for links).
- Amiga SoundFX
http://www.sonicpulse.de/eng/p_sfx.html
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_06.gif)
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_04s.gif)
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_02.gif)
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_07s.gif)
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_11s.gif)
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_10s.gif)
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_17s.gif)
more than 50 effects, with many parameters and complexs ways to modulate them, like :
SoundSynthesis (AM,FM,...)
3D-Cube-Parametermodulation (Mix, Equalize)
Effects e.g. Hall, Echo, Delay, Chorus/Phaser, Morph, Pitchshift ...
Operations e.g. Resample, ZeroPass (FadeIn/FadeOut), Middle, Amplify, Mix, DeCrackle, ConvertChannels ...
2D/3D-Spectrumanalysis
very good filters and boosters with resonancy !!!
nearly every parameter could be modulated in the following ways :
none : no modulation, static processing
curve : fades smooth from one value to a second one with variable curvature
cycle : oszilates between two value with different waveforms, frequency and phase are adjustable
vector : envelope editor
user : a samplebuffer modulates the value, contains several mappings, can even grab the modulator volume or pitch-envelope
SoundFX has several alpha-channels (one for each important parameter), furthermore SoundFX can generate alpha-channels algorithmically.
more than 100 presets are included
features 4 different interpolations types
fx,loaders and savers are external program modules and will be loaded on first use
reads and writes many sample formats including various compression types
(IFF-8SVX,IFF-16SV,IFF-AIFF,IFF-AIFC,MP3,RAW,RIFF-WAV,VOC,SND-AU,...)
clippboard support (with all 256 clipunits)
you can work with many samples at once (every sample has it's own sizeable window)
works in mono, stereo and quadro
works with samples on disk (when running out of memory)
sampledata is held in memory or on disk with 16bit quality
high quality, because of floatingpoint-arithmetic (80/64bit) during calculations
plays in 8bit,14bit and 14bit-calibrated on the standart paula-chip, players are using only up to 4kByte Chipmemory
AHI-player (for soundcard-owners)
unlimited X and Y zooming
X and Y axis in samplewindows
features lots of different units for entering parameters and displaying axis
extensivly expanded mark and range editing
font, screenmode and sizesensitive gui
appicon support
systemconform programmed (tested with cyberguard, wipeout and blowup)
and many more features (read guide)
MIND THE FACT that:
Amiga Inc. and Hyperion are scheduled to meet for an AGREEMENT ATTEMPT by local judge...
Maybe for next september we will see very good news for Amiga, AmigaOS, Amiga Software and Hardware.
-
amigaksi wrote:
>by cicero790 on 2008/8/11 18:25:59
>I used WINUAE on XP and a p4 2.6ghz intel northwood for that experiment. It worked fine no tweaks needed.
I just saw as much of the earth as I could and it's flat. Sorry, but we need to modify the history books and as far as all those fairy tales of people flying around the earth, that was due to nonlinear space and using modulo arithmetic axes of space you can fly from one end and pop in on the other end and leaving the earth as still being flat fitting in with many people's observations.
I like your passion to much to answer, but my little experiment is completely valid. Also, most programs in this thread will do the job its just a matter of taste. Finally, recording in a ridiculously high sampling frequency does not replace a sky high musical IQ. I think it’s extremely cool to continue using BnP in WINUAE on PC. Just look what Rob Hubbard did with so little on the C64.
-
Wolfeman wrote:
man, there are a lot of opinionated mo-fos in this thread [on this forum?]
Aye, opinions are like erseholes, eh? Everybody's got one.
:roll:
@wilse
Mac USB is slower, you can google various benchmark tests, that's just a fact. argue it all you want.
You are arguing with yourself, I'm afraid.
At no point did I state USB wasn't slower.
You told the original poster to "stay away" from any audio or HD USB peripherals.
What I said was there is no need to avoid USB *if* you are on a budget.
I stand by this and, for my purposes, the differences between it and firewire are negligible.
You have then decided to turn this into a completely irrelevant argument about which is faster in a benchmark test.
To this I say again, horsefeathers! ;-)
I'm extremely happy for you if it doesn't haunt you or bother you, seriously, but PLEASE spare me the down-the-nose "addytude" regarding your belief of the phenomenon.
What on earth are you talking about?
It is *You* who is trying to tell *me* that I should only use FW because it is "faster".
My experience says I can happily get by with USB yet *you* persist. (Despite admitting to using USB yourself.)
If anyone has a "down-the-nose addytude," it is you, sir.
if you run a 24+ track system like I do where I am recording entire bands live and 16+ tracks recording in at once is the norm.
As I already explained, most of my projects are between 10-20 tracks and I rarely record more than two at a time. FW may indeed be the *only* way to go for you but that does not neccessarily apply to the rest of us.
To recap:
I had an exclusively FW audio/MIDI/HD set up on my Macbook.
It started freaking out and I had to use USB for some of it.
The USB works fine for my purposes.
It *may or may not* also work fine for the original poster.
If money is a consideration, the above may be helpful to him.
Whether it is slower on benchmark tests is irrelevant in this context.
Labouring the point in spite of this gives an impression of snobbiness.
case closed
If you say so, m'lud!
:pint:
-
Raffaele wrote:
check also these beautiful modern Amiga programs that I think you are unaware of:
- HD-REC
http://www.hd-rec.de/
(http://www.hd-rec.de/HD-Rec/bilder/hdrec_scrshot001_med.gif)
HD-Rec is a powerful MIDI/audio sequencer for Amiga OS. It combines comfortable MIDI notation with extensive audio editing within the same application, running always 100% synchron. To achieve this, HD-Rec takes full advantage of the AHI system for audio and the CAMD system for MIDI input and output. HD-Rec is 100% system friendly, so you can be sure that it will run on your existing and future hardware.
HD-Rec has a powerful plugin interface allowing a wide range of plugins, like patch editors, softsynth or visualisation plugins. Beside this, it has an easy interface for audio effects, like a high quality reverb, delay, chorus and more.
*very user friendly and intuitive to use
*16 bit / 11.025-96.0 kHz non-destructive audio recording & editing, not limited by RAM
*32 bit audio realtime effects (reverb, delay, chorus, compressor...)
*Bars&Pipes style notator for MIDI elements
*Audiomaster style editor for audio elements
*uses AHI for audio and CAMD for MIDI
*powerful plugin system for MIDI/audio applications like softsynths or patcheditors
*256 tracks (MIDI/audio)
*supports .aiff, .wav, .maud, .raw, .cdda, .8svx, .mp3, .mod and .mid files
Works better on new Amigas equpped with audiocards and AHI...
- Digibooster PRO tracker
http://www.digiboosterpro.de/indexe.php
(http://www.digiboosterpro.de/images/dbp2.jpg)
DBPro is a so called tracker program. It´s possible to produce your own music by using samples. So called pattern will be programmed by typing in sequences and commandos. Put together the patterns lead to a whole music track.
With the current version of DBPro it is possible to manage up to:
Trackfeatures:
128 Tracks
256 Samples (sound files with no size limitation)
1024 Patterns
1024 Positions
within one song.
Track format loading:
Digibooster 1.x (digi)
Protracker (mod)
Oktalyzer (okt)
Octamed (mmd0-mmd3)
OctamedSoundStudio (oss)
FastTracker (xm)
ScreamTracker (s3m)
There is the possibility to save the tracks not only as the Dbm format but also as Xm or Mod format.
Sample format loading:
IFF 8SVX (mono - 8 Bit)
IFF 16SV (mono - 16 Bit)
RIFF WAV (mono/stereo - 8/16 Bit)
AIFF (mono/stereo - 8/16 Bit)
MP3 (CBR) Import LayerI-III
With the following extras there are nearly no limits for the creativity:
(B)eats (P)er (M)inute Pitcher
DSP Echo (Echo Delay, Feedback, Mix and Cross)
Volume envelopes
Balance envelopes
Roland TB-303 "GrooveBox" Emulation 8not realtime)
HD recording for samples using AHI Harddiskrecord
Optional realtime 32 bit HIFI mixing with linear interpolation
Two different commands per trace at the same time
Almost all shortcuts and commands are compatible with ProTracker
Up to 7 Oktaven
CyberGraphX & Picasso96 card support
and many more ...
Thanks to AHI support every AHI soundcard can be used
With a little patience, interest and some feeling for rhythm within your venes you will soon discover all those various possibilities for producing music with Digibooster Professional.
We wish you thereby much success and fun!
System requirements:
(Amiga - Minimum configuration)
68020 CPU
2 MB availble RAM
Kickstart 2.0
ahi.device Version 4 (or better)
asl.library
iffparse.library
reqtools.library
(Amiga - Recommended configuration)
68060 CPU
10 MB availble RAM (for huge projects with 16 bit samples even more might be required)
Kickstart 3.1
Gfx card
Sound card
(Pegasos - configuration)
Gx CPU (Since 68k is still emulated at present)
min. 2 MB availble RAM
MorphOs 1.4
ahi-device Version 4 (or better)
asl.library
iffparse.library
reqtools.library
- Audio Evolution
http://www.audio-evolution.com/AE4/index.html
(http://www.audio-evolution.com/AE4/AEImages/AE4intro.gif)
Up to 60 (stereo) samples simultaneously (depending on processor power and harddisk controller).
Any sample rate is supported (depending on the used soundcard).
Full duplex recording for simultaneous recording and playback.
Each mixer channel gives you control over the following features:
Volume
Panning
Mute
Solo
Subgroup (1-4) assignment
3 insert effects with on/off switch
3-band EQ with on/off switch
4 Aux sends
Every channel has a separate PPM volume display.
Separate window for 4 subgroups with volume, mute and solo per group.
Full mixer-automation: channel volume, panning, mutes, master volume, subgroup volumes, subgroup mutes and even insert effect parameters can be automated. Automation events can be edited directly on the timeline or through an event list. They can also be recorded during playback by mouse or MIDI remote control (touch and latch mode).
OS4 native realtime effects with real-time parameter control, on/off switch and metering (where applicable). Possible CPU overload is detected, preventing lock-ups during playback.
Expansion window with direct access to a 3-band equalizer and 4 auxillaries (effect sends).
Non-destructive non-linear editing (cut, copy, paste, move, split, trim, crossfade) using the time line display.
Unlimited undo for time line editing operations.
Regionize tool: find pauses or moments of relative silence and automatically place markers or split the region into subregions. The marker information can be exported to the CD burning package BurnIt which is great for mastering old vinyl records or live recordings: all separate tracks can be identified automatically.
Grid options to align regions: grid size can be set in milliseconds, bars/beats up to 1/64th note and videoframes (24, 25, 30fps)
A marker mechanism on top of the timeline lets you place locators, punch in/out markers and the time marker easily, giving quick and accurate access to these items.
Metronome and time signature settings.
Separate window for (destructive) sample editing with the usual features like cut, copy, paste and erase range. Direct to disk, not limited by memory.
Effect plug-ins like Compressor, Delay, Noise Gate, Chorus, 3-Band EQ, Parametric EQ and Reverb can be applied both realtime and non-realtime.
Synchronisation to other equipment or applications:
MIDI (by direct serial port communication or using the CAMD library):
By sending a MIDI start-command and a Song Position Pointer, you can synchronize audio with an external MIDI sequencer. You can also receive MIDI start-commands.
AREXX
Bars&Pipes sync tool
Master Control Bus to synchronize to and control other applications that support the MCB. The MCB will be released for OS4.
Dolby Pro Logic encoder for mastering 4 mono tracks to the Dolby Pro Logic surround format. Note that this is only an experimental tool: no realtime auditioning or sound positioning is possible.
Project-based: a separate directory for each separate project is created to manage your samples in an easier way
- AHX
http://www.amigau.com/amigarealm/ahx/main.html
(http://www.amigau.com/amigarealm/ahx/images/ahx_01.gif)
AHX is a protracker-like music editor that was designed especially to create C64-like synthetic tunes. There is no support for sampled instruments as chip tunes are made to be as small in size as possible. So an average AHX tune has a length of about 200 bytes - 5 kbytes (unpacked). All waveforms of the C64 are supported: Triangle, Sawtooth, Square and White Noise. Also Hi-/Lo-Pass filtering effects are supported (ring-modulation is hopefully to come in AHXv3). Check out the News/Updates-Page for the changes in the current version!
Finally the 68000-Version of the Editor is out (BIG THanX to Buzz/Maniacs for giving me the source of his hacked 2.1-000er version-it helped a lot!)
Fixed some minor bugs and added some little features. Refer to the History file please.
Fully Protracker keyboard-compatible track editor featuring variable pattern-length, single-voice patterns, Protracker-Module-Import and Optimize-function.
Sub-Songs.
Powerful synthetic instruments-editor featuring all C64 waveforms as triangle, sawtooth, square and white noise.
Instrument-specific apreggio-/macro list featuring fixed/variable notes.
Player features: square modulation, vibrato control, note slide, transpose, hi-/lo-pass filter, hardcut, multiple speed CIA, 68000-compatible, supports using your own cia for multiple speed modules now!
Full multitasking- and graphics board-support. (Runs on CyberGraphix, etc.)
Built in AmigaGuide help; internal help system to explain all commands etc.
VolumeMeters, CPU-usage display
AmigaOS-compliant: uses ASL- and Intuition-Requesters.
Fully controlable via keyboard, no long mouse-movements needed.
Player for Delitracker (using DeliTracker's NotePlayer system) shipped.
Binary-/Assembler-/BlitzBasicII-Player for your own productions included, AmosPro-Player, E-Module and C/C++ Module available (see Productions page for links).
- Amiga SoundFX
http://www.sonicpulse.de/eng/p_sfx.html
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_06.gif)
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_04s.gif)
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_02.gif)
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_07s.gif)
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_11s.gif)
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_10s.gif)
(http://www.sonicpulse.de/pictures/sfx_17s.gif)
more than 50 effects, with many parameters and complexs ways to modulate them, like :
SoundSynthesis (AM,FM,...)
3D-Cube-Parametermodulation (Mix, Equalize)
Effects e.g. Hall, Echo, Delay, Chorus/Phaser, Morph, Pitchshift ...
Operations e.g. Resample, ZeroPass (FadeIn/FadeOut), Middle, Amplify, Mix, DeCrackle, ConvertChannels ...
2D/3D-Spectrumanalysis
very good filters and boosters with resonancy !!!
nearly every parameter could be modulated in the following ways :
none : no modulation, static processing
curve : fades smooth from one value to a second one with variable curvature
cycle : oszilates between two value with different waveforms, frequency and phase are adjustable
vector : envelope editor
user : a samplebuffer modulates the value, contains several mappings, can even grab the modulator volume or pitch-envelope
SoundFX has several alpha-channels (one for each important parameter), furthermore SoundFX can generate alpha-channels algorithmically.
more than 100 presets are included
features 4 different interpolations types
fx,loaders and savers are external program modules and will be loaded on first use
reads and writes many sample formats including various compression types
(IFF-8SVX,IFF-16SV,IFF-AIFF,IFF-AIFC,MP3,RAW,RIFF-WAV,VOC,SND-AU,...)
clippboard support (with all 256 clipunits)
you can work with many samples at once (every sample has it's own sizeable window)
works in mono, stereo and quadro
works with samples on disk (when running out of memory)
sampledata is held in memory or on disk with 16bit quality
high quality, because of floatingpoint-arithmetic (80/64bit) during calculations
plays in 8bit,14bit and 14bit-calibrated on the standart paula-chip, players are using only up to 4kByte Chipmemory
AHI-player (for soundcard-owners)
unlimited X and Y zooming
X and Y axis in samplewindows
features lots of different units for entering parameters and displaying axis
extensivly expanded mark and range editing
font, screenmode and sizesensitive gui
appicon support
systemconform programmed (tested with cyberguard, wipeout and blowup)
and many more features (read guide)
Would wayne or raffaele move this information to the amiga audio forum where it will be more easily found in future.
Thanks for this info raffaele.
-
Wow, thanks everyone for all the advice and discusson this thread has generated.
To address some of the comments:
Raffaele wrote:
check also these beautiful modern Amiga programs that I think you are unaware of:
Thanks for your informative and massive post. I actually am aware of all of those programs (and have even registered some long ago). I have been a SoundFX user for about 10 years. I had always wished to run HD-REC on my Amiga, but my 040 couldn't cope with it. I had been holding on, waiting for a faster Amiga to come out that wouldn't cost the insane prices of those PPC boards, but, alas, my hardware finally met its end.
And as for hardware issued with my old Amigas? Well, the A2091 SCSI controller went nuts, frying itself, a hard drive and a CD-ROM burner (plus all the latest customs chips and GURU ROM that were on it). I do have a two other big-box Amigas that I tried to set up as replacement systems. Unfortunately, I have found that the SCSI bus (or something else) in the A3000 is not totally compatible with the Repulse Audio board I use. The Repulse audio board is THE most critical element of my Amiga audio workstation (that's how I get audio into the Amiga for mastering, sampling, etc.). On my old A2000/040 it would record beautifully, silently. On the A3000 (and once when I tried it in an 060 equiped A2000) it also performed nicely on playback, but on recording there was intermittent digital noise bursts EVEN WHEN RECORDING VIA THE OPTICAL CABLE. This is just unacceptable for use in a home studio setting. I'm not sure why it occurs, but it does. There were also other hardware issues (SCSI errors, aging hardware not always being recognized) etc. that were just too much of a headache and were getting in the way of actually making music. Believe me, when I say I have tried everything, I mean it. I did NOT give up lightly on Amiga. I spend a week and half every day trying new things, and I've been through all this before several times. Besides, I don't really consider myself as leaving the Amiga (despite the title of my post), just moving my Amiga operations over to newer hardware (the PC with UAE) that is not 15-20 years old and failing. I would have probably gone with A-Clone or Natami had it been out already, but it's not, and at least with the PC I also get to use all the incredible software for that platform.
In fact, I still have one slower, no-frills A2000 I'll keep around in the closet just in case I ever want to use it as a dedicated MIDI sequencer. Right now, though, with the new PC, I won't have the deskspace for two full desktop systems, so I'll be using UAE for Amiga stuff.
Okay folks, so this is what I purchased:
A used IBM (I like the reliability of IBM hardware) P4 running at 2.4GHz with 1GB RAM. This will be far faster than anything I have owned in the past, and should suffice for Amiga emulation and all PC DAW/MIDI work *I* need to do.
I realise this is not a cutting edge computer by today's standards, but in my old setup (a digital multi-track deck synced to the Amiga running Bars & Pipes) I always found that 8 audio tracks with two external effects and compressor, plus 16 tracks of MIDI were more than enough for me to create quite full sounding music. 16 tracks will be decadent to me (for now!)
I will be purchasing the M-Audio Audiophile 192 PCI card for this computer:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile192-main.html.
I am a little concerned about it only having one MIDI I/O, so I may have to buy a multi-port USB MIDI interface if I need more.
I will be keeping my Yamaha MD-8 minidisc multitracker. It will be mainly used as an external audio mixer for my synths and as an input for my microphones to the sound-card of the PC (the multitracker has a nice analog mixer section with real EQ knobs and a couple of XLR inputs with phantom power). Also, I can use this multitracker as a simultaneous 8-track "field recorder" and dump live performances back to the PC for final mixdown.
Samplitude Opus was a very important application for me on the Amiga. I have therefore ordered Magix Samplitude Music Studio 14. I have used an older version of Magix Audio Studio 5 on the PC before and really loved it. I then discovered it was by the Samplitude people and knew why!
http://www.magix.com/us/samplitude-music-studio/detail/
I also have an older version of Logic (5.2) to try out for comparison.
I also have a very old copy of Cakewalk (MIDI ONLY) for Windows 3.1 (that still works on modern PCs) that I will use as a simple MIDI only sequencer (for when I don't need a big app for audio tracks). I have run it on a 486 laptop for a while now as a portable setup, and have found it to be very reliable and with good timing. It's not as fancy as Bars & Pipes was, but it is still quite good.
I have also ordered Cloanto's Amiga Forever 2008 Deluxe. I know I could have just set up UAE for free, but I consider this purchase my "last toast" to the real Amiga (and Amiga dealers). The inclusion of the deathbed vigil DVD (which I've never seen in its entirety before will be a fitting tribute to the death of my real Amiga).
I am encouraged by the success of many people here in using UAE to run Amiga audio & MIDI software. I hope to be able to continue to use Bars & Pipes, OctaMED, etc. Along with SoundFX, ImageFX, PageStream, etc. (all for which I have been a long-time registered user).
The Windows audio software, I must admit, it amazing. One nice thing is that I will finally be able to just pop a song in progress onto a CD-R and give it to someone else with a DAW to lay their tracks onto in their own home studio. Before, I always had to schedule get-together times for recording because this was not possible.
Another thing I will love is mix-automization, and mixer snapshot feature. Using an analogue mixer before meant carefully writing down all the settings between sessions.
Here is a picture of my "old" home recording setup using the Amiga 2000 (2500).
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=1690
Thanks again everyone for the advice. I will report here on my experience setting up the PC system.
:crazy:
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Good luck with the new setup :-)
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>My hearing tests and their results are a matter of record.
>What, you want me to get a photostat of them for you?
I think they forgot to compare my hearing to yours and many other people's including my dog's (who seems to hear somethings I can't).
>>There aren't timing differences in all the Amiga models (as per spec and as I have tried it) so it's not a given.
>But there are on some and that ...
When you decide to state the models that you are talking about, we can better determine what the timing differences are. Until then, we go by the specs.
>That is not using an Emulator though, is it? It's a port using native hardware without any form of emulation wrapper. Also, if you know the basic sampling speeds of two devices you should be able to correct for one to the other to maintain sync.
Port and native versions are always better than emulated versions. You need to go check with some software expert regarding that. You can adjust the sample (either resample the data or change the total time by finding closest frequency supported by hardware).
>You can argue that it might not be "exact" when measured under some insanely convoluted system of your choosing that no human ear could ever detect in a million years, but that isn't the point, the point is, does it sound different, are there distortions between emulation and real, the answer is no.
Nothing convulated about 11Khz sampling rate. Higher rates will deviate more samples. Sound Blaster is integrated into many motherboards including thinkpads and some toshiba maintain SB compatibility. Why don't you state the specs of your sound card and which frequency crystal it's using for the sampling rate. And I was only giving a simple example, if I wanted I could start using Copper lists and modifying audio registers and you'll be getting audio distortions all over the place in your emulator.