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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: quarkx on August 05, 2008, 04:41:26 AM

Title: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: quarkx on August 05, 2008, 04:41:26 AM
Hi, all,
Newbee question, but I am looking at the CDTV and I think it was rather a cool concept. But is it worth really hunting one down and playing with it or is it just a "rarity" for the collection? I know there were some units released here in Canada, but is it really worth the time (and money) to track one down?
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: rkauer on August 05, 2008, 05:00:41 AM
 The CDTV is an A500 without keyboard and mouse, nothing hard to track.

 Go for it, if you want a nice black A500 in a video-cassette shape with a remote control instead the joystick.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: NovaCoder on August 05, 2008, 06:17:17 AM
Quote

quarkx wrote:
Hi, all,
Newbee question, but I am looking at the CDTV and I think it was rather a cool concept. But is it worth really hunting one down and playing with it or is it just a "rarity" for the collection? I know there were some units released here in Canada, but is it really worth the time (and money) to track one down?


Not exactly Commodore's best idea, one for the collector.  If you’re after a CD based retro games machine to actually use, go for a CD32 instead.  :-D
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: Rob on August 05, 2008, 06:23:37 AM
Oliver Hannaford-Day has nice site packed with information on the CDTV here. (http://www.cdtv.org.uk/index.html)

If do get a CDTV and want more memory then Elbox sell 2MB and 8MB upgrades, they aren't cheap though.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: amigadave on August 05, 2008, 06:26:02 AM
Quote

NovaCoder wrote:
Quote

quarkx wrote:
Hi, all,
Newbee question, but I am looking at the CDTV and I think it was rather a cool concept. But is it worth really hunting one down and playing with it or is it just a "rarity" for the collection? I know there were some units released here in Canada, but is it really worth the time (and money) to track one down?


Not exactly Commodore's best idea, one for the collector.  If you’re after a CD based retro games machine to actually use, go for a CD32 instead.  :-D


Well, since I am a collector, I guess that is why the CDTV looks so good to me.  It was another Amiga idea way ahead of its time, and might have been much better received if it had been marketed better and had slightly better features than a stock A500/A1000.  It is definitely the best looking Amiga to have in the Living Room next to the rest of your Stereo and Video equipment.  As far as looks are concerned, it is way better than the CD32 which looks like a toy console in comparison, but you are right that the CD32 is much better choice for running more Amiga software.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: amiga1084 on August 05, 2008, 09:49:57 AM
Hello All,

Well I have place one under my monitor for my A4000T, it keeps  great time. Thanks in advance, Merv Stent :roll:
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: foleyjo on August 05, 2008, 10:06:25 AM
If you can get a Keyboard, mouse and external floppy drive then yes its worth getting.

Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on August 05, 2008, 10:09:54 AM
Quote

amigadave wrote:

Well, since I am a collector,
Get it.
AFAIK it's the first CD based console, and it's a very nice idea how they set it up; the designers made a bare console which could be upgraded to a full computer, something console makers only recently adapted. (and also the joypad is very nice, it's efficient with batteries and you can play the games very nicely - also considering it has a second button!)
It's only a pity I can't find a harddisk for it :-S
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: Protek on August 05, 2008, 10:34:01 AM
Does the CDTV have an inbuilt SCSI controller or what type of interface is used in it?
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: tokyoracer on August 05, 2008, 10:45:31 AM
I thin the SCSI controller is an expansion.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: amiga1084 on August 05, 2008, 11:06:23 AM
Hello All,

No the CDRom is not SCSI like the CD32 it has it's own non standard custom interface. It was a SCSI interface that pluged
into the expansion slot made by a third Party company. Thanks Merv Stent :roll:
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: cpfuture on August 05, 2008, 01:35:24 PM
Make sure that you get an interface that allows you to hook up regular 9-pin Amiga joysticks to the CDTV if you plan on playing games. The included remote is not really suitable for most games in my experience. Unfortunately these joystick/mouse interfaces are pretty rare...
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: orange on August 05, 2008, 03:43:32 PM
there are plans for building such interface on aminet, but they require opening the case and getting signals from chip. factory solution uses connector.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: quarkx on August 05, 2008, 04:09:16 PM
This all stems from the fact, if I can find one here in Canada. I really don't want to end up with a PAL system from the UK so I will just concentrate on finding one locally. The CD32 is much easier to get here- believe it or not, but without the expansions- like the sx etc, it makes it pretty much just a novelty in my eyes. The "Pro" system of the CDTV gives you pretty much everything for a full system.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on August 05, 2008, 04:32:53 PM
Quote

Protek wrote:
Does the CDTV have an inbuilt SCSI controller or what type of interface is used in it?
AFAIK it uses some custom interface...
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: HyAmi on August 05, 2008, 05:02:40 PM
@Speelgoedmannetje
You could get an ICD ADIDE40/44. As far as I know, that should give you hd capabilities without too much hassle.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: darksun9210 on August 05, 2008, 05:12:13 PM
yeah its as expandable as an A500, but without the side expansion slot, so options are limited... IIRC, you can upgrade the 1.3rom to 3.1rom, as the base cdtv and cdrom code is held in a seperate rom. pretty cool being able to have a cdrom without having to load drivers :)

the cd drive is a custom mitsumi(?) interface, so no direct IDE or SCSI to play with without expansion cards... as always, its a giggle to have a play...

enjoy your new plaything :)
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: amigadave on August 05, 2008, 05:51:10 PM
Quote

foleyjo wrote:
If you can get a Keyboard, mouse and external floppy drive then yes its worth getting.



I just recently got the last piece to complete my CDTV, a black CDTV keyboard, thank you Ray from Hawaii.

My black mouse is not an original CDTV mouse, it is the Amiga Technologies mouse that I am not real fond of as I don't think it works as well as it should, and certainly not as well as a Wizard 3 button 560dpi, or AlfaData optical mouse.  I also have an "Air Mouse" for the Amiga that I could try with the CDTV that is black.  It works via infrared, but has its own infrared receiver so it can work with any Amiga.

A member here programmed for me an updated version of the two special CDTV ROMs that I believe contain the CD-ROM controller code as well as some other things, so I now have the latest version.

So, all in all, I am quite happy with my CDTV, but I think I will try to upgrade it a bit further with the installation of an AdIDE hard drive controller, DKB MegaChip 2mb RAM expansion, and a Kickstart ROM switch from an unknown manufacturer with either the 1.3 & 2.05 ROMs, or 1.3 & 3.1 ROMs.

That should make it a very versatile Amiga gamer except for AGA games, which will have to be played on my A1200, A4000 or CD32.  I don't know about options to use regular joysticks on the CDTV.  That would be the only other thing I might be interested in doing to it, or I may just leave it like it is now and enjoy it for what it is.  I have other Amigas that can fulfill the hard drive and multiple Kickstart ROM options.

So obviously my vote would be for any Amiga enthusiast to get a CDTV.  The wireless infrared remote controllers are unique to this model Amiga and kind of cool.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: quarkx on August 05, 2008, 06:06:49 PM


[/quote]

I just recently got the last piece to complete my CDTV, a black CDTV keyboard, thank you Ray from Hawaii.

My black mouse is not an original CDTV mouse, it is the Amiga Technologies mouse that I am not real fond of as I don't think it works as well as it should, and certainly not as well as a Wizard 3 button 560dpi, or AlfaData optical mouse.  I also have an "Air Mouse" for the Amiga that I could try with the CDTV that is black.  It works via infrared, but has its own infrared receiver so it can work with any Amiga.

A member here programmed for me an updated version of the two special CDTV ROMs that I believe contain the CD-ROM controller code as well as some other things, so I now have the latest version.

So, all in all, I am quite happy with my CDTV, but I think I will try to upgrade it a bit further with the installation of an AdIDE hard drive controller, DKB MegaChip 2mb RAM expansion, and a Kickstart ROM switch from an unknown manufacturer with either the 1.3 & 2.05 ROMs, or 1.3 & 3.1 ROMs.

That should make it a very versatile Amiga gamer except for AGA games, which will have to be played on my A1200, A4000 or CD32.  I don't know about options to use regular joysticks on the CDTV.  That would be the only other thing I might be interested in doing to it, or I may just leave it like it is now and enjoy it for what it is.  I have other Amigas that can fulfill the hard drive and multiple Kickstart ROM options.

So obviously my vote would be for any Amiga enthusiast to get a CDTV.  The wireless infrared remote controllers are unique to this model Amiga and kind of cool.[/quote]

Sounds like a sweet system indeed. Looks like the only things you are missing are the original Commodore scsi Adapter, Hard drive and Black Monitor, but those are not really needed with an Adide adapter. I just think it would look so cool set up, If I got one, I might experiment some way of replacing the CD with A DVD though, I know, I am Dreaming, but upgrading to a DVD (and being able to View it) would really put some life back into it.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: amigadave on August 05, 2008, 06:18:31 PM
I just remembered that I also have a CSA MegaMidget Racer 030/68882 CPU/FPU accelerator w/32mb RAM that I might be able to fit inside the CDTV.  That might be pushing my luck though and overheat and fry my CDTV.

I wonder how far any other users have pushed their CDTVs?

Your DVD idea is interesting and would be a great addition, but I can't imagine how you would get it to work without an accelerator.  Playback of DVD movies would require more computing power than the stock CDTV can provide, or did you only want to have access to DVD data discs?
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: quarkx on August 05, 2008, 06:23:05 PM
No, I though of just having DVD movie playback, and bringing the CDTV up to date on the original Idea of it, the access to the data disks, would be a nice side benifate though.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: cpfuture on August 05, 2008, 06:47:21 PM
Quote
I don't know about options to use regular joysticks on the CDTV. That would be the only other thing I might be interested in doing to it, or I may just leave it like it is now and enjoy it for what it is.


Here's a picture of one of those joystick adapters for the CDTV.

Link (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=1836)

I got this one fairly cheap, but unfortunately it only works for one joystick. The second interface doesn't react that well. IIRC joystick left and right movements are not registered. Sucks, because I really like playing old school two-player games when I have friends over and the CDTV is perfect as a living room Amiga.

There was a similiar interface up on eBay recently but it went for an absurd price. 50 euros or more I think.

But you're right. The CDTV, despite its failure and quirkiness (or perhaps because of it), is a wonderful piece of Amiga history!
 :-)
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: taunusand on August 05, 2008, 09:23:34 PM
My CDTV and CD32 have theis own places in my living room, but I mostly use the CD32 ;-)
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: taunusand on August 05, 2008, 09:23:46 PM
My CDTV and CD32 have their own places in my living room, but I mostly use the CD32 ;-)
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: jmbattle on August 05, 2008, 10:33:19 PM
Has anyone ever tried to mount the CD32 motherboard inside a CDTV, or would the custom 1x CD-Rom interface be prohibitive?

On a similar note, assuming the DVD-Rom drive could be replaced, and that it was hooked up to a CD32 with the FMV add-on, would DVD movie playback be possible?

I'm just curious...

Cheers,
James
x
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: amigadave on August 05, 2008, 10:44:02 PM
Quote

cpfuture wrote:
Quote
I don't know about options to use regular joysticks on the CDTV. That would be the only other thing I might be interested in doing to it, or I may just leave it like it is now and enjoy it for what it is.


Here's a picture of one of those joystick adapters for the CDTV.

Link (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=1836)

I got this one fairly cheap, but unfortunately it only works for one joystick. The second interface doesn't react that well. IIRC joystick left and right movements are not registered. Sucks, because I really like playing old school two-player games when I have friends over and the CDTV is perfect as a living room Amiga.

There was a similiar interface up on eBay recently but it went for an absurd price. 50 euros or more I think.

But you're right. The CDTV, despite its failure and quirkiness (or perhaps because of it), is a wonderful piece of Amiga history!
 :-)


Thanks for the link to the joystick adapter.  I wonder how hard it would be to duplicate one of those adapters?  I will have to look on Aminet to see if anyone has come up with a home-built version for the CDTV.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: Pyromania on August 05, 2008, 11:19:30 PM
Yes, they are very cool. It's where the idea for PlayStations & Xboxes came from.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: Tenacious on August 06, 2008, 04:11:36 AM
@ AmigaDave

I've read that the CDTV and the A570 coupled with an A500 were virtually the same.  I had great dreams of expanding my A570 system.  It works well with Supra's RX500 fast ram expansion and with 2 megs of chip on the 500 motherboard.  It also works great with SCSI-TV by Amitrix Development (the same SCSI interface add-on for the CDTV).  

I could never get it to work reliably with any accelerator.  I tried mTec's 020, ICD's Adspeed, and Supra's Turbo 28Mhz.  The Addspeed appeared to work for a week but then destroyed the A570.  Commodore replaced it under warranty.  When the second A570 began displaying the same symptoms, I popped the Addspeed out.  It seems that the special CD interface and rom are sensitive to CPU timing signals.

If you try the MegaMidget, be cautious.  
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: arion on August 06, 2008, 08:45:28 PM
Well the cdtv is the coolest looking piece of hardware ever put together.

And from a gaming perspective the Cdtv verison of Xenon 2 is a must have for that computer. But i have to agree with a previous post here get one with 9 pin connections the wireless controller isnt always good for games in fact mine was very annoying at times.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: alexh on August 06, 2008, 11:07:30 PM
Quote

jmbattle wrote:
Has anyone ever tried to mount the CD32 motherboard inside a CDTV, or would the custom 1x CD-Rom interface be prohibitive?

What would you connect to the LCD, buttons etc? I agree that the CDTV case is nicer than the CD32 one.. but a heart transplant is not going to be easy / practical.

Quote

jmbattle wrote:
On a similar note, assuming the DVD-Rom drive could be replaced, and that it was hooked up to a CD32 with the FMV add-on, would DVD movie playback be possible?

No. It's an MPEG1 decoder and DVD's are MPEG2.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: amigadave on August 07, 2008, 03:52:52 AM
Found a great site for the CDTV here  (http://l8r.net/technical/cdtv-technical.html).

With all this discussion about the CDTV, it motivated me to take mine apart to install the updated custom extended ROM chips that I received a few weeks ago, a Kickstart ROM switcher, and DKB Megachip.  I need to dig out my AdIDE as well and install it with a 2.5" hdd before I close the CDTV up again.  

I seem to have found a problem when I opened up my CDTV.  The extended ROMs are soldered to an inverted pcb that is then inserted into the CDTV mobo with pins going into not only the two extended ROM sockets, but also a socket that connect to the 10 pins of CN29.  To upgrade I could try to just install the upgraded extended ROMs into the mobo sockets located at U34 & U35, but I am concerned that all the circuitry on the extra pcb which originally contains the extended ROMs must be there for some reason and therefore must be needed.  My other option is to desolder the original extended ROMs and solder the upgraded extended ROMs into the original extra pcb. Does anyone know anything about this extra pcb with the extended ROMs for the revision 2.2 CDTV mobo?  

I have taken a few pictures, but a recurring problem with my card reader in my PC prevents me from uploading them at this moment.

Edit:  Thanks again to "Jeff" for programming the updated EPROM extended ROMs for me.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: Jeff on August 07, 2008, 04:18:35 AM
It sounds like you might have the developers Flash board installed. Check this page out about half way down for the Flash Update software.

[/quote]CDTV Information Page (http://www.cdtv.org.uk/1515.html)
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: amigadave on August 07, 2008, 10:23:29 AM
Although I could not find a picture of the developers Flash
Board, I think you might be right.

I have installed the EPROMS you sent me and my DKB MegaChip
and all is working fine.  I found a CDTV compilation CD
that showed me that I now have 2mb of RAM and the start-up
screen is now showing 2.7 in the bottom left corner instead
of 0.1 which was shown before. Kickstart is currently v34.5.
I think that equates to v1.3.3, but I am not sure.

The developers flash board is removed, but I will keep it
in case I need to use it in the future for another flash
update if anything beyond version 2.7 is found or created.

I am very surprised to find it in my dented CDTV that does
not seem to have any other special additions to it.

I guess I will install the Kickstart ROM switcher next, but
the clip with the wire running to the DKB MegaChip from pin
36 of the Gary chip runs right over the Kickstart ROM and
the wire is not long enough to go around it.

Edit: The Kickstart ROM switch covers the area that the Flash Memory card that holds the original PROMs on it, so I will not be able to use both at the same time, but since the EPROMs you Jeff sent me are working well, I won't need the Flash Memory card right now.  I could not get the CDTV to start up when switched to the 2.05KSROM, but I am off to the other room to retrieve the floppy drive and my WB2.1 disk to see if it boots okay and to also see if the CDROM will show up on the WB when running OS2.1 from floppy.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: amigadave on August 07, 2008, 01:01:04 PM
Someone here sold me a bad KS 2.05 ROM, because when I replaced it with another known good 2.05 KSROM my CDTV boots okay from the CD-ROM and the Floppy Drive.

Oh well, at least it is working now with my KSROM and the switcher and I have the option of both OS1.3 or OS2.1.

Now I will have to find that AdIDE and see if I can get it to boot from a hard drive.  The info page I found on the Net said that it probably would not and that it might not be able to use the CD-ROM drive with the AdIDE installed, but I am pretty sure I have read about other Amiga users booting their CDTV's from a hdd.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: hardlink on August 07, 2008, 08:52:08 PM
Quote

amigadave wrote:
Now I will have to find that AdIDE and see ...


The problem I see stacking items on top of the CPU socket is the clearance to the top cover; anybody know what the limits are? I don't want to cut a hole in the top of the case, so I've wondered if I could make an expansion to lift it a bit. There was something like this, a new top case half for the A4000D, to allow all the Toaster/Flyer gear to fit inside.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: amigadave on August 07, 2008, 09:10:55 PM
Quote

hardlink wrote:

The problem I see stacking items on top of the CPU socket is the clearance to the top cover; anybody know what the limits are? I don't want to cut a hole in the top of the case, so I've wondered if I could make an expansion to lift it a bit. There was something like this, a new top case half for the A4000D, to allow all the Toaster/Flyer gear to fit inside.


There is very little room to stack above the 68000.  Even the Kickstart ROM switcher has maxed out the height inside and will be right up against the top of the case cover when it is closed up again.  My Derringer 030/50MHz will not come close to fitting under the case and I am not going to cut it, or run with the top off.

I might try a 68010, or AdSpeed w/14MHz 68000, but there are reports that the AdSpeed does not work with the onboard CD-ROM drive.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: rockape on August 07, 2008, 10:04:04 PM
Hi,

There is a SCSI drive header inside the CDTV for installing a hard drive.

see http://www.cnctechniker.de/amiga.html

but the maker of the SCSI connectors site says

Leider ist keine CDTV Hardware mehr lieferbar - eventuell nächstes Jahr...

Sorry, all CDTV Hardware is sold out - perhaps next year...

Regards, Michael

aka rockape
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: HopperJF on August 07, 2008, 10:15:22 PM
I had one for a while, for novelty only.
The 1.3 and only 1Mb lets it down otherwise it would have been quite good.

Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: amigadave on August 07, 2008, 10:26:49 PM
Quote

rockape wrote:
Hi,

There is a SCSI drive header inside the CDTV for installing a hard drive.

see http://www.cnctechniker.de/amiga.html

but the maker of the SCSI connectors site says

Leider ist keine CDTV Hardware mehr lieferbar - eventuell nächstes Jahr...

Sorry, all CDTV Hardware is sold out - perhaps next year...

Regards, Michael

aka rockape


It would be great if I could connect to the internal SCSI controller to add a hard drive, but it is probably very hard to find a slimline 2.5" SCSI hdd.  I think trying to fit the AdIDE inside is my best bet. Now if only I could find it.

@HooperJF,

I have 2mb RAM and AmigaOS 2.1 working plus the Kickstart is switched, so I can go back to OS 1.3 at any time.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: amigadave on August 09, 2008, 09:46:49 AM
Got my card reader working again, so I uploaded a couple pics of the CDTV Flash Memory Rev A card that was installed inside my CDTV before I replaced it with the upgraded extended KS ROMs that Jeff programmed for me.

They should be visible in a day or two in the CDTV section of the A.org photos.

If anyone is interested in buying it, I am thinking of selling.  I can send you the pics via email.
Title: Re: CDTV - is it worth getting one?
Post by: Jeff on August 09, 2008, 10:25:52 AM
@Dave
PM Sent about the Flash board

-Jeff