Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: badgerme on July 30, 2008, 02:05:47 PM
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if someone has a moment, please can they advise me if a DCE Flicker Magic installed internally in an A1200 (connected to the Alice and Lisa chip) should work on a TFT monitor?
I have a Dell 2005FPW (tech details can be found here: http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2005FPW/En/about.htm)
I'm really disappointed as I thought that this item would work with my monitor which has the following horizintal/vertical scan frequencies:
- Horizontal scan range 30 kHz to 83 kHz (automatic)
- Vertical scan range 56 Hz to 75 Hz
I'd really appreciate any advice/pointers anyone could give me!
Thanks!
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PAL modes are 50hz, that is why your monitor cannot display them.
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A new Scandoubler/Flicker Fixer has been developed that will support the higher frequencies and will work on TFTs - see here:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=821
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nice one cheers!
Am I right in thinking that the BVision card supports 60hz and thus will work on a my TFT?
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BVision is a graphic card, no scandoubler or flickerfixer. It will work with your TFT but cannot display pal screens for old games.
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cheers - so presumably if you load an old 68k game on Amiga OS 4 it will output to the RGB connector instead of the BVision VGA Output?
Is it possible to redirect old PAL Games through to the BVision?
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Most games need a Scandoubler (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=821) - however some more modern games will allow you to use a graphics card such as the BVision - e.g. Gloom Deluxe.
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sorry if this sounds stupid, but if im in says OS 3.9 or OS 4 and load up a game using WHDLoad - will I then have to swap the monitor cable over from the BVision output to the scandoubler?
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You could manually swap the cable or use one of our internal monitor switchers:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=565
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Yes, you can also use some kind of switch box.
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I'd love to pull the trigger on one of these new FF/scandoublers, but have a few questions I didn't see listed on the spec sheet.
1) can this be used in an original A1200 desktop case or is it designed for use in towerised Miggy's?
2) since it fits over Lisa, can we assume the new and improved VGA signal still runs through the A1200's video port? Or is there a cable and adapter you are supposed to sneak out through the extra port by the controllers?
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that scandoubler looks great, hopefully an a4000 version will come out, would love one for my 4000d and 4000T.
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1) can this be used in an original A1200 desktop case or is it designed for use in towerised Miggy's?
Works in Desktop case.
2) since it fits over Lisa, can we assume the new and improved VGA signal still runs through the A1200's video port? Or is there a cable and adapter you are supposed to sneak out through the extra port by the controllers?
Was there ever a scandoubler that outputs the signals through the original RGB port? The new Indivision has extra headers for the VGA port connected by cable.
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Not that I'm aware of, but since I did not see the header and cable, thought I'd ask to be sure. It does look as if there are the standard VGA out pins to the right of the board though - but again, did not want to assume. Thanks for the info!!
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amigakit - is the 9th september realistic for this item to be in stock? Is this based on the latest date or could it be sooner? really keen to get one :) I've just placed my pre-order with you.
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Not that I'm aware of, but since I did not see the header and cable, thought I'd ask to be sure. It does look as if there are the standard VGA out pins to the right of the board though - but again, did not want to assume. Thanks for the info!!
If you check the news article you will find an image of the Indivision AGA mounted into an A1200. There you can see the headers and cable on the right.
http://www.siliconsonic.de/news/Indivision_AGA_mounted.jpg
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Hey badgerme, why not hook up to the composite on the monitor for games? Not as good as a sd/ff but will keep you going for now.
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cheers for the advice buddy - ive done that already but im not happy with the quality - lemmings are all tiny and blurry n horrible - not as i remember them :) thanks all the same!
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You may need svideo then ;-)
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/photo.php?lid=3908&cid=5
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wow thats loads better - is there a way to convert the rgb output to svideo? (I have the 23pin to vga adapter if that helps)
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It's possible with some extra logic, yes.
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Does anyone know if I can use this to connect the RGB output from my A1200 to the svideo input on my monitor?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VGA-to-RCA-S-Video-Adapter-Cable-for-PC-Laptop-TV-UK_W0QQitemZ370072581588QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item370072581588&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318
Please say yes someone!!
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@DJBase
Does your S-Video adapter also work on 4000s? If so could you sell me one?
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I doubt that.
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No, that's a VGA to S-Video adapter. You need some circuitry to convert the signal AFAIK.
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Does your S-Video adapter also work on 4000s? If so could you sell me one?
No, the 4000D does not have the requiered chip.
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Bummer ;-)
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will the vga to svideo adapter work on the a1200's rgb output port (with the 23 to 9 pin adapter?)
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The RGB port has no SVideo signal. You have to convert the RGB signals first.
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No.
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ill wait for the new scandoubler to arrive in september in that case :)
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@badgerme
Thanks for the order!
9th Sept is a fixed date- we have paid our money for the production which will be completed and quality tested at end of August ready for delivery to customers shortly after.
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There is a S-video hack on Aminet for people who have A1200 or A600.
Just a pair of transistors and some capacitors & resistors.
For those Amigas who lacks the chip inside (all but 600/1200/CD32), I'm finishing a video encoder.
Schematics are ready, only PCB still needs to be designed.
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I cannot believe what BAD advice you've been given.
You already had the DCE Flicker Magic Scandoubler... all you needed to do was switch the Amiga into (60Hz) NTSC mode and it would have worked fine with your Dell LCD monitor.
If you had KS3.1 all you had to do was hold down both mouse buttons on powerup / reset (to enter the early startup menu) and press space!
You may have had to fiddle around with Workbench screen prefs and WHDload icon tool-types before everything was set to run at 60Hz but it would have been free... no more hardware purchases required, no hacking / soldering etc.
I cannot believe that no one explained this to you.
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wow is it really that simple? Anyone else done this?
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Yes, it's really that simple.
Sell your old DCE flicker magic on ebay in the next few days (remember to post worldwide for the best price) and hope that someone out there has not heard of Jen's Schoenfelds new Indivision 1200 (or wants a flicker magic for an A4000) and you should get your money back.
The Indivision 1200 should be a lot better than the flicker magic. It's 24-bit instead of 16-bit. Reportadly works with more screen modes. It has scan rate conversion 50-60Hz, but I wouldn't recommend using a 50Hz mode all the time... the conversion will almost certainly suck ass for games and demos which scroll so switching everything to 60Hz will make everything look better.
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do any of the old games run in 24bit color? will it make much of a visual difference by using the new one? I dont really use workbench much - just whdload
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All AGA games and screenmodes run in 24bit colour
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Of course it depends on what colours are used as to how bad the overall effect of using a 16-bit scandoubler looks.
It looses the least significant bits (LSB's) of the RGB digital signals and so subtly different colour changes are lost and merge into one solid colour.
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What colour pallette do non-AGA Amiga games use? 16bit or 24bit?
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12-bit.
I thought everyone knew the (non AGA) Amiga had 4096 colours (2^12)?
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so using a 16bit scan doubler for non-aga games will be fine then? there shouldnt be any distortion of colour?
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You are correct. No distortion of colour in ECS/OCS mode with a 16-bit INTERNAL scandoubler like the DCE Flicker Magic.
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Internal DCE Flicker Magic now working lovely thanks for the advice all!!
Should I be getting vertical lines? Is that normal?
Check out: http://www.badger.me.uk/amiga-verticallines.jpg
Also - is there a way to set the Amiga to always be in NTSC mode rather than having to Early Startup Menu everytime I want to check it?
Thanks again all
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You would have to modify your hardware for that but this makes troubles with some PAL games.
The line are normal for this kind of scandoubler because the running mode is not 100% compatible with your TFT.
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so does that mean when I am in NTSC mode, PAL games wont run, or run correctly?
Anyone know if the new indivision will have the same problem with the vertical lines? or is this due to the tft not having support for the resolution being used (rather than the output frequency (60hz))
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Do you have a hard drive? If so you can change your workbench->prefs->ScreenMode (http://guide.abime.net/wb3.1/images/smode1.gif) to NTSC 60Hz so it will always boot up without having to use the early startup sequence.
NOTE: If NTSC does not appear in your list of ScreenModes then you will have to move the NTSC monitor settings from workbench->storage->monitors to workbench->devs->monitors
If you use WHDload (http://www.whdload.de) you'll be able to change the tooltype (http://www.whdload.de/docs/en/opt.html#NTSC) for each game ICON (or once in the global prefs) to include NTSC (get rid of PAL if it is already there) and they will all start and run in 60Hz and thus be compatible with your monitor.
If you dont have a hard drive, and you use floppy disks... you're a bit screwed. You should invest in one (or an internal IDE->CF adapter (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360071269884) and a CF card (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280251266226)).
As for the vertical lines... have you tried changing the Pixel Clock & Phase settings (http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2005FPW/GRAPHICS/image.gif) using the menu on your monitor? Try Auto Adjust first.
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Say, when you use these internal scandoublers, are you forced to ditch the upper RF shielding? I've been considering the new Indivision 1200 and this would be useful information, when making the decision.