Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: amigakidd on July 06, 2008, 05:04:40 AM
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::: THIS IS PURELY SCIENCE FICTION :::
Imagine we are living the year 2018.
Macintosh has already a 40% market share of consumer desktop market plus their consumer devices (90%) and Microsoft now only owns a tiny percentage of the Windows market (20%) dedicated to enthusiasts who managed to hang on to MS dark ages in the late 00s to present day. Ever since Billy left, M$ was never the same again. The rest of the tech sector (40%) is owned by Open Source advocates and Google, thanks to gOS, which has evolved over time.
Kids in 2018 never heard of a Blackberry or a Palm Treo.
To them Facebook, is a geezer's web app.
Web 2.0 is long gone, but remains as a nostalgia factor for those teens who grew up in the mid 00s. Youtube, Twitter, Blogger, Flickr, and many Web 2.0 apps we know from the mid-late 00s have either evolved or have been extinct. Welcome to Web 3.0: DTV is in every home. Light Projection Displays are in. Multi-touch like interfaces have replaced the mouse and keyboard. There are few computer geeks that reminisce about how good it was to compute back in 2008 using Leopard, Windows XP, Vista, and Linux and how revolutionary it was when the Nintendo Wii debuted in 2006. These geezers complain that kids today compute now in the "Cloud". and why is your office program live in some remote server and have to pay to use it.
Until one day...
Cloud Computing is great, but currently everything is so bloated. Mac OS Eleven runs like a tortise in the cloud. MinWin is a snail. But wait. An angel is coming.
Amiga is back from the Dead. The "Amiga Dew"
With Amiga OS 6, but this time, it finally out and pouring like raindrops.
The Amiga may have a chance in the world of cloud computing because of the size of the operating system.
Still preserves the past using Workbench and able to run your old Amiga games and Apps. But unlike the Mac or Windows counterparts (which they have to merge with a Unix-like or POSIX-like kernel). This new Amiga Computer has an updated Exec Microkernel, not some lame Linux-like kernel.
Unlike the present cloud computers: Mac or PCs (now thin clients). Amiga Dew has an advanced SSD to store all your Amiga games and apps. Its the only computer that still has a DVD rom, SD card, 3.2 GHz Quad Core. Just enough for good old simple quiet computing in the Year 2018.
Yes, it still runs Amiga Forever 2008 after all these years.
Just a glimpse of the future of the Amiga (our favorite computer)
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hmm, someone has their hand on it!
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puff puff pass!!
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In happy land, AOS6 would be out by then, but if we extrapolate from the way things have been going lately, AOS6 would still be ready "in 2 weeks". :cry:
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I think you're totally right. This is all a definite possibility! But you're not seeing the bigger picture. As the world embraces this new computer platform, attitudes will start to change. The human race will be united through this new technology, and old hatred will start to disappear. As communication becomes easier, people will communicate more than ever and the reality that we all just want to get along will be accomplished. East and West will once again be at peace, leading to improved trade agreements, thus stabilising the global economy. Eventually, the wealth of the developed world will become so strong, and the benefactors so selfless and generous, that we will be able to lift all of the less fortunate individuals out of poverty. War and famine will be a thing of the past, and the human race will live in peace, love and harmony.
Only Amiga Makes it Possible.
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moto
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Awwwwwww!
I thought this was going to be a "what would you like to see in Web 3.0" discussion.
To hijack it in this direction, my suggestion is a 8u115h1t Filter. By clicking a radio button in Google 3.0, you can filter out all the 8u115h1t and pointless crap the web is clogged up with, and just find what you were looking for in the first place. :-D
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Google should have an option to filter results from blogs and social networking sites. That would reduce results-wading time by at least 50%...
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
Google should have an option to filter results from blogs and social networking sites. That would reduce results-wading time by at least 50%...
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moto
Except Amiga.org and EAB, of course - many of the answers to my questions come from there. :lol:
Having said that, I tend to use the " site:Amiga.org" function of Google quite a bit - a very useful feature imho.
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Yes, forums should still be included in the results. It's only the tedious details of people's trivial daily lives and their incomprehensible ramblings to their online "friends" which I have no interest in wading through...
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
...their incomprehensible ramblings to their online "friends" which I have no interest in wading through...
Like what we do on Amiga.org.... :boohoo:
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Yes, but my ramblings are comprehensible :-D
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moto
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@amigakidd:
Distributed computing is already available, based on Amiga-technology (sort of; written by the same guy).
Carl Sassenrath's blog is all about REBOL:
www.rebol.com
Who is Carl? He is the author of Amiga Exec ;)
It just so happens that Rebol is designed for distributed computing.
When Bill was doing his xbox thing, I quietly hoped he would buy Amiga and bring it back. Instead, MS went on to produce that brilliant piece of hardware called xbox. It is so not cool that it overheats to death ;)
Future belongs to small *and* functional operating systems. Small kernels (like Linux) are very deceiving because they do not provide all features of an OS.
As of Blackberry, I do not see it as a "geezer's" toy. You can use it as a phone, as a tiny browser machine or just as a modem connected to a laptop. And you can listen to music stored either in memory (not so big) or a microSD card (1GB is more than enough - for now ;)
How is carrying a wireless modem a "geezer's" thing? I never leave my home without a modem and at least one CPU. C'mon. ;)
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Cloud computing... in a word iPhone...
Anything else is just dreaming.
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motorollin wrote:
..... Eventually, the wealth of the developed world will become so strong, and the benefactors so selfless and generous, that we will be able to lift all of the less fortunate individuals out of poverty. War and famine will be a thing of the past, and the human race will live in peace, love and harmony.
Only Amiga Makes it Possible.
Hi motorollin,
Oh yeah, baby!
And it's almost here, the NatAmi60 is the turning point!!
I believe that there seem to be a confluence of forces making this inevitable!!!!
Meanwhile Boot_WB suggested an almighty 8u115h1t Filter.
Oh what we wouldn't pay for that feature!!!! :-D :-D
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Atheist wrote:
motorollin wrote:
..... Eventually, the wealth of the developed world will become so strong, and the benefactors so selfless and generous, that we will be able to lift all of the less fortunate individuals out of poverty. War and famine will be a thing of the past, and the human race will live in peace, love and harmony.
Only Amiga Makes it Possible.
Hi motorollin,
Oh yeah, baby!
And it's almost here, the NatAmi60 is the turning point!!
Almost here? wait a few days until the iPhone is released in Canada...
Then you can catch up with the rest of us!
I believe that there seem to be a confluence of forces making this inevitable!!!!
Well... Apple...
Meanwhile Boot_WB suggested an almighty 8u115h1t Filter.
Oh what we wouldn't pay for that feature!!!! :-D :-D
But then we wouldn't get to enjoy your posts!!! :-(
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Perhaps I'm a luddite, but I miss the good old days of 'Web 1.0' (whatever that means) where things were simpler and things were not quite so easy.
Having to do everything in HTML meant that people had to put in the effort to publish to the web. Perhaps, it is the rose tinted specs I'm wearing right now, but back in the day people seemed to take more pride in what they put on the web. Yeah, you had the {bleep}s still, and you had geocities. But it's so easy now for people to dump any old {bleep} on the web, that they do. As Moto said, people are filling the web with every insignificant detail, every throw-away thought and worse they're presenting it as if it is important fact.
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I think fish sticks are tasty. That movie sucked. Look at my new socks!
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bloodline wrote:
Atheist wrote:
Meanwhile Boot_WB suggested an almighty 8u115h1t Filter.
Oh what we wouldn't pay for that feature!!!! :-D :-D
But then we wouldn't get to enjoy your posts!!! :-(
:laughing:
Maybe, maybe I'll post again. :-)
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Man, what is that flying camel is doing... I can see clearly, man this is good stuff.
(http://shivaheadshop.co.uk/images/68/68/1137.jpg)
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@uncharted:
You made some interesting points. Just the other day I was talking to a client about Semantic Webs (Web 3.0) and how they will "work" once they are ready. Once that cool technology is rolled out, we will probably have something that looks like Compuserve (as it looked in 1993): clean-shaven online service, where content is organized, easy to find and people actually know their stuff). I remember back in the day, when I wanted to talk 68K assembler all it took was to find a forum on Compuserve and we were motorollin' in no time. I learned a great deal that way.
And, it did not have pesky ads, trojans, worms and all the other crap for which I have to sacrifice CPU cycles just to stay safe. This is why we need Dual Core today: one CPU for virus/security-related defenses, and another for apps. :)))
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I really think you guys should check out several services that are here today, and even with current Amiga development tools (for OS3.9 or OS 4.0) are here today. They work great from python, php, and presumably could be scripting from the Amiga Shell/AmigaDOS.. Even if you consider the lack of a good web browser..
You should check out Amazon's web services
http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html?node=16427261
They include things like S3 Simple storage that gives you online file storage that's available 24/7..
Other services include:
Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud
Amazon SimpleDB
Amazon Simple Storage Service
Amazon Simple Queue Service
You don't have to wait until 2018, you can have these kinds of things and do them today right from the Amiga (with TCP/IP and a Network card/Stack)..
Web services are much easier than a web browser to implement and return text or XML most of the time and work like a remote procedure call.. REST protocol seems like a slam dunk and I am suprised no one has done stuff with that yet.
A lot of people forgo anything but online file storage already, I'd be suprised if the Amiga community doesn't adopt this already themselves or aren't already.
Writing an Amiga program to access a webservice should be easy even from something like AREXX (same kind of idea, AREXX ports just over a network)..
-Don
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@Atheist
Please read these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
Then re-read my post above :roll:
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moto
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I'm not a big fan of cloud computing. Right now, some of these schemes lock you in to their services but using proprietary formats. As a result, you may not be able to extract your own data from the service-provider and use it elsewhere.
The other concern that I have is, how reliable will my computing be when, not only does my machine have to work, but every server that I use, and every network switch, fibre-optical link, satellite, etc., that lies between my machine and these servers. A broken computer I can replace; a broken satellite is beyond my control. Then there's the question of what if the service provider doesn't like my content (or me)...
All that complexity; whatever happened to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).
Hans
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Hans_ wrote:
I'm not a big fan of cloud computing. Right now, some of these schemes lock you in to their services but using proprietary formats. As a result, you may not be able to extract your own data from the service-provider and use it elsewhere.
Only if you were fool enough to not maintain backups... I can't speak for other services but the Apple system is a way of keeping all my devices synchronised... My actual data is stored on my MBP... the cloud simply maintains a copy of it that I can access and modify (which will then sync across all my devices) anywhere...
The other concern that I have is, how reliable will my computing be when, not only does my machine have to work, but every server that I use, and every network switch, fibre-optical link, satellite, etc., that lies between my machine and these servers. A broken computer I can replace; a broken satellite is beyond my control.
Don't be such a control freak! :-P Your devices still work just as they did before they were massively connected... it just that then you would have to manually keep track of your modifications and updates.
Then there's the question of what if the service provider doesn't like my content (or me)...
Wow!!! don't you normally need to take medication for that degree of paranoia? ;-)
All that complexity; whatever happened to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).
Take your pick... use technology as you will, but if you don't want to take advantage of what it offers... then feel free to fire up that C64 and pretend the last 30 years never happened :-D
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bloodline wrote:
Hans_ wrote:
I'm not a big fan of cloud computing. Right now, some of these schemes lock you in to their services but using proprietary formats. As a result, you may not be able to extract your own data from the service-provider and use it elsewhere.
Only if you were fool enough to not maintain backups... I can't speak for other services but the Apple system is a way of keeping all my devices synchronised... My actual data is store on my MBP... the cloud simply maintains a copy of it that I can access and modify (which will then sync across all my devices) anywhere...
The backup is of no use if you can't use it in other systems. Google got into a bit of an argument over this exact point at a cloud-computing gathering because their apps do lock you in to their system. Cloud-computing is much more than a distributed storage system.
The other concern that I have is, how reliable will my computing be when, not only does my machine have to work, but every server that I use, and every network switch, fibre-optical link, satellite, etc., that lies between my machine and these servers. A broken computer I can replace; a broken satellite is beyond my control.
Don't be such a control freak! :-P Your devices still work just as they did before they were massively connected... it just that then you would have to manually keep track of your modifications and updates.
If you are relying on other servers for computing, then those servers have to be functioning, and the connections to those servers as well. Your devices may still work as before, but disconnected, you won't be able to do much with them.
Having dealt with internet outages, the prospect of not being able to do my work, because I can't connect to the application server, does not appeal.
Let's say you are running a business and some nutter decides to start a DDOS attack on your management system service provider. You, and every other company relying on that service will be back to using pen and paper until the service is restored. Any data that you did not have paper backups (or PDF files of) won't be accessible, and any changes will have to be manually sync'ed once the service provider is back up and running.
Then there's the question of what if the service provider doesn't like my content (or me)...
Wow!!! don't you normally need to take medication for that degree of paranoia? ;-)
Grow up. I'm sorry, but suggesting that I need medication is uncalled for, and insulting. I've had to deal with petty behaviour from "professionals" who don't like people that I work with. The effects are nasty. Given the amount of censorship in other parts of the world, this is something worth at least considering, even if it's not going to be an issue for most people.
All that complexity; whatever happened to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).
Take your pick... use technology as you will, but if you don't want to take advantage of what it offers... then feel free to fire up that C64 and pretend the last 30 years never happened :-D
What advantage does running a word-processor on a distributed system have exactly? My comment wasn't about not taking advantage of new technologies, rather, it was about making things more complex than they need to be.
None of the examples that I have given would be that hard to overcome technically, but service providers will be reluctant to add the ability to transfer data to rival company's systems, or allow local servers*.
So, please tell me, what advantage does cloud computing offer over installing software locally?
Hans
* One of the advantages for cloud computing service providers is that the users don't have access to the object-code, thus making pirating/reverse-engineering harder.
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Hans_ wrote:
bloodline wrote:
Hans_ wrote:
I'm not a big fan of cloud computing. Right now, some of these schemes lock you in to their services but using proprietary formats. As a result, you may not be able to extract your own data from the service-provider and use it elsewhere.
Only if you were fool enough to not maintain backups... I can't speak for other services but the Apple system is a way of keeping all my devices synchronised... My actual data is store on my MBP... the cloud simply maintains a copy of it that I can access and modify (which will then sync across all my devices) anywhere...
The backup is of no use if you can't use it in other systems. Google got into a bit of an argument over this exact point at a cloud-computing gathering because their apps do lock you in to their system. Cloud-computing is much more than a distributed storage system.
Not really... That's like saying the iPod is much more than a Harddrive that plays MP3s... It's not... It's just a hard drive in a pretty box.
I honestly can't think of anything that you would do in the cloud that isn't basically just copying data between devices... sure a bit of manipulation between devices is available... but the results need to be accessible or it's useless.
Oh and, I do have backups of my Data on Google... it was very easy to do!
The other concern that I have is, how reliable will my computing be when, not only does my machine have to work, but every server that I use, and every network switch, fibre-optical link, satellite, etc., that lies between my machine and these servers. A broken computer I can replace; a broken satellite is beyond my control.
Don't be such a control freak! :-P Your devices still work just as they did before they were massively connected... it just that then you would have to manually keep track of your modifications and updates.
If you are relying on other servers for computing, then those servers have to be functioning, and the connections to those servers as well. Your devices may still work as before, but disconnected, you won't be able to do much with them.
:-? Did you never use a PDA before Blackberry and iPhone came along? You are being really weird about this... like that other chap in another thread who wouldn't watch a TV show he wanted to watch online... because he didn't trust JavaScript...
Having dealt with internet outages, the prospect of not being able to do my work, because I can't connect to the application server, does not appeal.
Well prepare for the outages because they are going to happen... they happen all the time... If you have a local copy of the data work on that with a local application. If not then you can't, simple.
Let's say you are running a business and some nutter decides to start a DDOS attack on your management system service provider. You, and every other company relying on that service will be back to using pen and paper until the service is restored. Any data that you did not have paper backups (or PDF files of) won't be accessible, and any changes will have to be manually sync'ed once the service provider is back up and running.
Damn, I'm glad you don't run my IT systems!!! I guess you've never worked for any large organisations, with complex and advanced computing requirements?
Then there's the question of what if the service provider doesn't like my content (or me)...
Wow!!! don't you normally need to take medication for that degree of paranoia? ;-)
Grow up. I'm sorry, but suggesting that I need medication is uncalled for, and insulting.
Ok... I was just messing around... but now I'm concerned! Listen to me carefully and slowly... They are not after you! repeat that to yourself softly and when no one is looking...
I've had to deal with petty behaviour from "professionals" who don't like people that I work with. The effects are nasty. Given the amount of censorship in other parts of the world, this is something worth at least considering, even if it's not going to be an issue for most people.
What the hell does this have to do with my PDA syncing to my MBP?
All that complexity; whatever happened to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).
Take your pick... use technology as you will, but if you don't want to take advantage of what it offers... then feel free to fire up that C64 and pretend the last 30 years never happened :-D
What advantage does running a word-processor on a distributed system have exactly?
So I can edit and manipulate a document on any device with a network connection? No worrying about which version of the program I'm using, or if I need a licence to use it on that device... Or even having to take a long install time for a a single app, if I even have the processing/memory requirements... the advantages are endless... If there were no advantages over the existing systems... no one would bother.
My comment wasn't about not taking advantage of new technologies, rather, it was about making things more complex than they need to be.
You don't think about the long term implications of your comment. You are not seeing the system as a useful system... so therefore it's overly complex for you... but for the task in hand it's very well designed... which is much more than some systems I can mention... like E-Mail...
None of the examples that I have given would be that hard to overcome technically, but service providers will be reluctant to add the ability to transfer data to rival company's systems, or allow local servers*.
You don't have to... you are thinking as if we are talking about Sun's concept of thin clients for everything... that concept died a death a long time ago... We are not... you really need to see what modern technology offers.
So, please tell me, what advantage does cloud computing offer over installing software locally?
There is no reason not to have everything local as well, I would be reluctant to store all my data on a server, unbackedup on my personal machine... but now you have the option.
* One of the advantages for cloud computing service providers is that the users don't have access to the object-code, thus making pirating/reverse-engineering harder.
Um... Not really that useful is it?
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Hans_ wrote:
I'm not a big fan of cloud computing. Right now, some of these schemes lock you in to their services but using proprietary formats. As a result, you may not be able to extract your own data from the service-provider and use it elsewhere.
Fair comment. I had the same concerns when I migrated to OS X. I wanted to be sure that once I had imported my calendar/contacts/music/whatever it wouldn't be stuck there. Fortunately Apple's software allows you to export in standard formats should you decide to move to different software.
If Apple's applications are linked to me.com (Apple's upcoming Cloud setup) then data are automatically pushed between devices you connect to your me.com account. The data are in the same format, so the same flexibility applies should you decide to export to a standard format.
I don't know how other Cloud providers handle this.
Hans_ wrote:
The other concern that I have is, how reliable will my computing be when, not only does my machine have to work, but every server that I use, and every network switch, fibre-optical link, satellite, etc., that lies between my machine and these servers. A broken computer I can replace; a broken satellite is beyond my control..
Depends on where you create the data and where you need them. If you create stuff locally and then can't access the Cloud, then clearly you can't access those data from your other Cloud-connected devices. But anything created prior to losing connection to the Cloud would be stored locally (because the other devices push it to each other's local store through the Cloud).
How important all of that is obviously depends on what you actually plan to do with the data, and how often it is likely that you will lose your connection to the Cloud.
Hans_ wrote:
Then there's the question of what if the service provider doesn't like my content (or me)..
Edit - Another good point... not sure how I feel about my data going through a server somewhere. I'll probably just use the me.com services (if at all) for calendars, contacts and my Uni files. Anything personal will be kept locally on my computer.
Hans_ wrote:
All that complexity; whatever happened to Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).
Well, the Cloud is attempting to make it simpler to keep the same data in many places. Easier while it's working, since it does all the work for you. But I concede it would probably be a headache if it stopped working when you needed it...
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moto