Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: LoadWB on July 03, 2008, 03:20:36 AM
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I'm considering replacing the rarely-used Zip drive in my A4000D with a IDE/CF adapter. I'm curious to know if anyone has experience with these in a removable context, and what mountlist one might use for such a job.
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@LoadWB
I wanted to do something similar - and use one of these along with a harddrive to transfer stuff from my 1200 tower - 4000D - PC
I was told that the IDE is not hot pluggable and that if I did this I would have to do a hard reset to swap the CF card.
So - If you find an answer - I'd be interested in trying it as well.
Dave G 8-)
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Hrmmmm... interesting tidbit of information. I would have to assume that it is up to the IDE-CF interface to make the card hot-pluggable, operating much the same way as a CD-ROM, Zip, etc. hrmmmm...
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All IDE-CF adapters are PASSIVE, meaning they are just wires.
The Amiga IDE interface doesn't support hot-plug.
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I am very interested too in putting a IDE-CF interface in my 4000. Unfortunately I have little information, and many questions... :)
One question: I often heard that it is necessary to use a MS-DOS file system on CF-drives... but people say so because they intend to use the CF to swap files Amiga to PC or because it is really a requirement of the CF technology?
I need the CF for Amiga to Amiga swap, can I use an Amiga FS on a CF?
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As far as I know - if you only intend to use it on Miggys then you don't need to format it with FAT whatever.
Dave G 8-)
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To use the CF card as the Amiga's primary drive you need to format using an Amiga filesystem (e.g. FFS, PFS or SFS).
Using FAT32 makes it easier to transfer files between the PC and Amiga but you cannot boot your Amiga from a FAT32 formatted CF card. (Perhaps you could if you can get Fat95 into a Kickflash or other flash device, Algor Pro, Deneb, eFlash etc.)
To transfer files to an FFS formatted drive you can use ADFView. (For PFS and SFS you'll need to use WinUAE to transfer files)
I don't know if you can mix and match MBR (FAT) and RDB(AmigaOS) I would expect not. (But I could be wrong)
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LoadWB wrote:
Hrmmmm... interesting tidbit of information. I would have to assume that it is up to the IDE-CF interface to make the card hot-pluggable, operating much the same way as a CD-ROM, Zip, etc. hrmmmm...
That was the same thought I had - if you can swap a floppy disc, CD, DVD or even a zip disc etc why not a bluddy little card :lol:
Dave G 8-)
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CD, DVD and I think ZIP disc are all ATAPI devices and so support REMOVABLE media.
Hard drives are ATA which (at least on the Amiga) doesn't support removable media.
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@alexh
I can see what you're saying and agree that this is what I've been told in the past. So the circle continues :crazy:
One thing that was suggested to me that could be a part answer to the above questions was - a CF/IDE converter that had a backplate on it for use on a big box Miggy that would allow for the removal and reftting of a card from the rear of the machine (not while it was switched on though).
I was going to try one of these buddys but haven't located one yet - although I have seen a piccy and it seems quite a good compromise ;-)
Dave G 8-)
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@ LoadWB
Here's a coulple of threads to do with having a CF card in an A4000:-
MINE (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=35660) :crazy:
HIS (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=36082)
:-)
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Could you partion the CF, and then have FFS on one partition and FAT16/32 on teh other ?
Does CF supports NTFS ?
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JJ wrote:
Could you partion the CF, and then have FFS on one partition and FAT16/32 on teh other ?
I did say above that I dont think so. They both want to use sector 0. But I am not an expert on RDB
JJ wrote:
Does CF supports NTFS ?
CF is just a media card. It supports anything.
The Amiga of course cannot read/write NTFS without a 3rd party driver (which probably doesn't exist)
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davideo wrote:
a CF/IDE converter that had a backplate on it for use on a big box Miggy that would allow for the removal and reftting of a card from the rear of the machine (not while it was switched on though).
I was going to try one of these buddys but haven't located one yet - although I have seen a piccy and it seems quite a good compromise
The are like £4 including postage on ebay. There are hundreds for sale every day.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/cf+panel
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Unless things have changed even win98 doesnt supportt ntfs. I used to have drivers for it, but they were read only, dont know if thats changed.
Im guessing that now linux has read/write support of ntfs partitions that it does.
Fair enough on the FFS/FAT formatting, didnt realise that was the issue.
How does it work with mixed drives with ntfs and linux then ?
Is that because the bootloader resides in sector 0. I am seeking enlightement here, not questioning your knowledge.
Would like to know for my own data banks :)
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@alexh
I'll have a nose around tonight when I get home from work.
Dave G 8-)
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alexh wrote:
--snip--
The Amiga of course cannot read/write NTFS without a 3rd party driver (which probably doesn't exist)
Alex, m8, there is a "driver" who manage NTFS in the Amiga! I just don't remember its name right now.
It is available on Aminet. here! (http://aminet.net/disk/misc/ntfs_0.6.lha)
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rkauer wrote:
Alex, m8, there is a "driver" who manage NTFS in the Amiga! I just don't remember its name right now.
It is available on Aminet. here! (http://aminet.net/disk/misc/ntfs_0.6.lha)
Good job! I remember seeing one before, but a Google search didn't turn up anything, and I didn't have but a second so I did not do a direct AmiNet search. I think I'll be playing with that this weekend.
So, the though occurs to me that probably the best way to do what I want is to get a Subway or Deneb and a USB CF reader. That would also open up other expansion options. (For that matter, I could get one of those 50-in-one card readers that mounts in the 3.5" bay.)
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rkauer wrote:
there is a "driver" who manage NTFS in the Amiga! I just don't remember its name right now.
It is available on Aminet. here! (http://aminet.net/disk/misc/ntfs_0.6.lha)
Read only. Making it totally useless for transferring files FROM the Amiga.
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LoadWB wrote:
So, the though occurs to me that probably the best way to do what I want is to get a Subway or Deneb and a USB CF reader
Hmm, spend £80-150 on USB adapter OR ....spend £5 on a IDE->CF adapter and power-cycle your Amiga when you want to remove the card.
I know which one makes most sense to me.
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alexh wrote:
Read only. Making it totally useless for transferring files FROM the Amiga.
Hmm... In this case...
Giggledisk! (http://aminet.net/package/dev/c/giggledisk)
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What do you think that Giggledisk tool can do??
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alexh wrote:
LoadWB wrote:
So, the though occurs to me that probably the best way to do what I want is to get a Subway or Deneb and a USB CF reader
Hmm, spend £80-150 on USB adapter OR ....spend £5 on a IDE->CF adapter and power-cycle your Amiga when you want to remove the card.
I know which one makes most sense to me.
I guess that depends upon your purposes. With the UKP50-180 USB adapter, I can also use USB drives, flash devices, mouse and keyboard, and the 50-in-one card reader to read more than just CF cards.
I know which makes sense to *me*.
Read only. Making it totally useless for transferring files FROM the Amiga.
Yeah, but there's more times that I transfer files *to* the Amiga than from. But in any case, I have an X-Surf and use SMB-Mount so I don't really have to depend upon media to move files to and from my Amiga.
BTW, are you okay? Any particular reason for the overwhelming rash of negativity lately? You're being a real buzz-kill these days.
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LoadWB wrote:
Any particular reason for the overwhelming rash of negativity lately?
Erm, hadn't realised I had been. And it's called realism, not negativity :-)
You have to admit that wanting a USB host card solely for its hot-swap capability (which is what I read into your posts) is a bit crazy??
You also have to admit that wanting to format a CF card in NTFS is also a bit crazy considering they are so small and you can use FAT and have full compatibility.
And you have to admit that referring to an Amiga NTFS driver (which is cool, cos I wasn't sure there was one) but failing to mention in your post that it cannot WRITE isn't great homework?
While there is no implied negativity in my posts, I'll try and put the coddling around my answers you seem to desire
Where are my notes on how to avoid negativity in the work place... ahh yes... "That was a great reply, interesting conclusions, but have you thought that perhaps..." :-D
LoadWB wrote:
You're being a real buzz-kill these days.
I think BuZz would disagree with you, I had a beer with him on Monday and when I left he was alive and well and went off to do some work on Exotica (http://www.exotica.org.uk). :lol:
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You should have read my posts instead of reading into them. My post about the USB clearly stated that other options would be available to me above and beyond the simple IDE interface.
And since USB can be used for things other than just cards, I might infer as a reader that the NTFS driver would be useful for those other purposes: hard drives, flash drives, and whatever. Especially since I never said that I would be formatting CF cards in NTFS, nor did I directly state that I would be using CF cards for file transport. Again, smb-mount (or smb-connect, rather) is utilized for that purpose. The CF interface was intended to be a carriage between my 4000 and 1200 system.
Personally, I do format all of my external devices with NTFS due to the increased reliability and security over FAT/FAT32. Cards are a different story, since portable devices cannot do NTFS, at least none of which I am aware. My Cannon camera and Palm LifeDrive do FAT and FAT32 on an SD, and my SE K790a does FAT32 on an M2.
So having said that, I believe it to be a realistic expectation to acquire a USB interface for my 4000D, install a multi-card reader as a replacement for the Zip drive currently in the 3.5" bay, and also provide myself with the flexibility of USB keyboard and mouse, flash drives, and external hard drives. Maybe even a USB scanner. If supported, perhaps USB-to-SCSI and my ScanJet 3c.
In any case, I think the simple answer to my original question is "No hot-swap IDE for CF." Given that, I can go USB and find much more functionality than for what I had originally aimed. Reasonable, realistic, and rational.
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Expensive, inferior, irrational is what I say.
But it's your choice.
You should be aware that USB keyboards and mice do not work in games. (Or anything which bangs the hardware directly i.e. most non OS legal tools etc.)
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And it's called realism, not negativity :-)
Why even bother using an Amiga then? Why even bother developing things for it?
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doctorq wrote:
Why even bother using an Amiga then?
Nostalgia & fun.
doctorq wrote:
Why even bother developing things for it?
Depends what it is.