Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: gaula92 on June 21, 2008, 03:37:19 PM
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Hello guys
I've been following the evolution on this topic for months, and I AM SURE there's people around using OS on their MAC MINIs via the leaked install CD:
Just look at this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHtbB5Xmxf0.
From EAB, user 500n4y says:
For starters, stop the booting sequence and enter the OF prompt by pressing Ctrl-Alt-O-F *right* after the USB keyboard gets detected.
Now, type exactly that:
boot cd:\\slb
Make sure you use the 'MM_Full_silent_USB' configuration, number 5 probably.
You can update those old kickmodules, but *DON'T DO ANYTHING* to the following files (including kernel files):
battclock.resource-via.kmod
macminiide.device.kmod
dbdma.library
nvram_OF.resource.kmod
If you want to do an iso from those files, you can easly use mkisoft by typing:
mkisofs -v -o -R -D -iso-level 3 -h -part -mac-name
-hfs-bless /l
What's more, you can partition the HDD with workbench on the mini, but it needs booting from the CD anyways.
OK NOW: It seems we MUST COMBINE FILES FROM THE BOOT CD with ACTUAL, USABLE kickstart files FROM THE OS4 Final CD, and rebuild the ISO with MKISOFS, the well-known Unix Iso-building program we know and love. It SHOULD result on a working OS4 for Mac Mini.
NOW, have you guys tried like this???
Thanks!!!
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[EDIT] Post retracted due to legal concerns
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I have both A1 OS4, the Moana files, and a PPC Mac Mini. I'll give it a go ASAP and let you know how it turns out.
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Thanks guys
Skurk, please let me know if you need some help with mkisofs on whatever linux/unix you're using to rebuild the iso with mixed moana and OS4 final files.
Other than that, good luck...
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[EDIT] Post retracted due to legal concerns
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There you go --> Click Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHtbB5Xmxf0)
Original link had a period (full stop) at the end which was causing the problem.
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Drop the period at the end of the URL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHtbB5Xmxf0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHtbB5Xmxf0)
I just tried really quick, and got a "load-size too small" (or something) when I tried to boot cd:\\slb. After checking the CD contents, I saw there's no slb file there at all, but a slb_v2 is present. boot cd:\\slb_v2 didn't do much good either.
I think I blew it when I created the CD image. I'm trying again in an hour or two.
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The link is invalid... :(
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHtbB5Xmxf0
It works for me; if it doesn't for you, just make a search for "mac mini os4" on youtube.
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Well, I'm struggling a bit here. I believe it'll work, I just assume I'm doing something utterly wrong.
I mounted the AOS4 CD in Linux and copied all the files to a directory. I then proceeded to mount the AmigaMini.iso (moana files), and copied those files over the AOS4 files.
After mkisofs and cdrecord, I'm trying to boot the CD on my mini, but without luck.
I'll admit it right now, I've barely touched OF before, so bear with me.
0> setenv boota-device cd:
0> boot cd:\\slb
That didn't work, because the slb file is in the L/ directory. So I copied the L/slb* to / on the CD and tried again.
0> setenv boota-device cd:
0> boot cd:\\slb
Still the same. However, if I settle with one backslash (cd:\slb) it starts loading slb, but is unable to continue because it cannot find anything else on the CD.
Trying to open full name cd:\\kickstart\kicklayout, scan handle at 220100a0, devalias cd:\
Loaded size is 0
Couldn't find kicklayout file on CD
No config files found in any supported media/device!
:-/
Any pointers? Anyone?
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Now that is way kewl... I even have a mini running my tv... hmmm
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Ok, a minor update. I tried booting the Moana iso alone, and that worked. Sort of.
However, all I get after booting (option 5, tried the others as well), loading a few modules and pressing any key a couple of times, is a black screen. No activity.
Maybe my Mini's just not up for it.
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@ gaula92 & skurk
great work guys..sure enough someone is gonna anonymously leak the truth and reveal the magic setup needed to get OS4 running on the mini ..lawsuit or not :-D
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Well, I got some input from a couple of users, but I'm still not able to proceed past the black screen.
I changed from DVI to VGA cable (which limits the screen resolution) hoping maybe that was it, but still no go.
My OF is 4.8.9f1 - I'm suspecting that is the showstopper for me. AmigaMac, the chap behind this hack, says it requires 4.9.4f1. Maybe a firmware upgrade is plausible?
Anyone else here tested AOS4 on Mac and are willing to share some info? Or maybe someone "heard of someone" who did it, and happen to know a lot about it?
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Skurk: I've got a Mac Mini G4 here now.
I've the same OF version as you do, so I'm getting the same black screen. It has been proved the moana iso files CAN boot in an 4.9.4f1, so I've been searching for an update, with no luck.
There are other users trying to update to 4.9.4f1 so they can run Amiga OS4 on the MAC MINI...and there are users with 4.9.4f1 that DO run it. But we're lost without an OF update...
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I also read that the "Moana patched" OS4 requires 64MB graphics memory (VRAM). Mine has 32M, so case closed in my case :(
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[EDIT] Post retracted due to legal concerns
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how does one check to confirm the mini has got the 4.9.4f1 firmware :-?
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[EDIT] Post retracted due to legal concerns
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thanks for the info Jeff :-)
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I can only pass on what ive been told.I wouldnt worry about the firmware its been run on other versions check some old threads but you must have the silent update G4 1.5ghz 64VRam - to reach the Kickstart screen the first step.Although no one has said theyve found it very stable.;-)
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[EDIT] Post retracted due to legal concerns
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Your right this is no long term solution but if youve lost intrest and wont wait any longer to mess about with OS4 then for Testing.......
I hadnt read Jeffs earlyer post about spoof the CPU speed and there maybe ways to get it working on other Minis apart from the silent upgrade.
But I wouldnt be so sure the Kick screen is a dead end;-)
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The Mac stuff is fun, but I still say OS4 needs to run on a PS3. The hardware is cheap and plentiful.
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Or Nintendo Wii, for that sake.
But, since there's a claim it already runs on Mac Mini, I think that's more promising and worth persuading.
That, plus the Mini's got all I'm asking for: Affordable hardware, small footprint, and a very low noise level.
If someone would like me to try certain boot tricks on my setup to get AOS4 started, let me know.
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Well, not the Wii. The PS3 was designed to run multiple operating systems, and apart from hardware-banging graphics, can be used as a general purpose computer without legally questionable hacking.
Realistically, legitimate use of OS4 on any non-Amiga platform will require a bit of indepedent development. Regardless, pushing for Mac PowerPC support is just as bad as pushing for continued support of the AmigaOne. They're both dead platforms. Besies, a decent used Mac Mini costs about as much as a PS3 anyway, and it can't run PS3 and Blu-Ray software. ;-)
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[EDIT] Post retracted due to legal concerns
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@Trev,
I think the idea to port OS4 to PS3 idea came around the same time that the Mac Mini port did.
I wonder if anyone ever started it like the Moana Mac Mini project.
At this point unless anyone figures out a way to get Moana running stable on the Mini there is no future hardware for OS4.
It may be a hack and it may not be legit but unless everyone is here is ready to just let the Amiga be a "retro" platform there isnt many options left.
edit: Well, except AROS & MorphOS. If your still into this platform then that may be the places to hang out for now on?
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I was thinking along the lines of positioning OS4 as a platform for parallel processing. While certainly not a new thing, it had gone by the wayside in mainstream distributed systems until we'd hit the practical speed limit of current technology. Anyhow, there's plenty of room for competition in this space. That said, OS4 is basically 80's operating system technology on a newer platform. Maybe it's better off consigned to single-CPU systems? (Cue the custom chip and dedicated processing unit discussion.)
EDIT: I think MIT has some public course materials availabe re: porting operating systems and software to the PS3 (and Cell in general). Should be interesting reading, even if you don't plan on putting fingers to keyboard.
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[EDIT] Post retracted due to legal concerns
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Hi guys,
I've played a little with those "Moana" files and managed to boot AOS4 with them. It was quite a pain in the ass but let’s start from the beginning: (Note: Not for Lamers !!!)
You definitely need one of the last Mac mini model with 1,5GHz with 64MB GFX memory or AOS4 won't kick. Blame the developer of Kickstart/ATIRadeon.chip for this limitation. The next hurdle is the loader L/slb (also L/slb_v2_mm) itself, it's a piece of hardcoded crap which refuses to load the Kickstart modules from anything else than the device cd:.
Type "setenv boota-device cd:" at the open firmware (OF) prompt. You only need to type this once as the environment variables will be automatically saved in the NVRAM forever. You can check it with "printenv" at OF. Man, I've spent hours trying to boot Moana from hd:, ud: USB-Stick and 2nd USB-DVD drive. No chance, so don't lose time trying that.
Next, boot Moana CD with "boot cd:\l\slb" or "boot cd:\\slb". SLB will load the config file Kickstart/Kicklayout and show its entries 1-6. Only entry 5 will load the right modules for ATA, USB and ATIgfx. By selecting 5 the loader will load all the modules defined in Kicklayout into memory. You may need to press ENTER several times until the console prints something like starting ExecSG.
Now it's the point of no return. If you press ENTER the screen goes black and after a while the AOS4 Boingball boot screen will appear. Or if you press ENTER and quickly press and hold left+right mouse botton, you will enter the early startup menu. YEAY!!! ...but, the only boot device available in AOS4 is CD0:, no external DVD drive or USB-Stick is accepted. Dammit!!! How do I eject the CD to replace it with the AOS4 CD? Long story short, I couldn't find an easy way. At OF prompt you can enter "eject cd:" but you can't do that after slb loaded all the modules.
To check if Moana really works, I replaced Mac mini internal drive with one with eject button and started over again. After inserting the AOS4 CD it will boot into workbench and automatically load an installer. Fine so Moana really works, but I want to use my Mac mini as is and not opened with a crappy DVD drive attached on it.
It would be cool to boot from HD and to have the DVD drive free for the AOS4 CD, wouldn't it? But as I told you before this is not possible, right?
WRONG!!!...sort of :-)
It's enough to make slb believe it's booting from a CD drive. And how we do that? I won't tell you!
....bah, just kidding. :-D Here is the solution. First copy the directories Devs, Kickstart, L and Libs from the Moana CD to the root of your MacOS hard disk, ignore the other files in the root of the CD.
Eject the CD, go back to OF and enter “devalias”. This will print all devices from your Mac mini. Locate the entries hd: and cd:. Now make cd: to look like hd: with “devalias cd /pci@f4000000/ata-6@d/disk0” (your Mac mini setup it may differ from mine so change appropriately). Now boot Kickstart with “boot hd:\L\slb” and voila, with some luck you end up in AOS4. Unfortunately this method seems to fail often to load the USB stack. Not the best solutions but hey, it works. The SLB loader is really crap when not booting from a real CD.
So let’s do a combined Moana and AOS4 CD: OK, it’s getting late and I really don’t want to describe it step by step, but here some important infos: You will need to extract the ELF boot loader from the AOS4 CD boot block. Burn it as El Torrito and no floppy or hard disk emulation. The CD itself should be ISO+Rock Ridge no {bleep}ty ISO+Joliet or HFS.
That’s all folks.
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Are you using the original AOS4 CD for an AmigaOne, or will the AOS4 CD for Classic Amiga's work?
If you are making a custom combined CD with both Moana files and AOS4 files, I would think that perhaps both versions of AOS4 would work?
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@Leo24,
Sweet man!
Thanks for all the effort so far.....Sounds like you went through a lot.
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Thanks Leo24..I knew it could be done :pint: :destroy:
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klx300r wrote:
Thanks Leo24..I knew it could be done :pint: :destroy:
It was only a matter of time!
Now if someone can only crack the problem that keeps Moana only working on one very specific model of Mac so that the rest of the PPC Macs can be used to run OS4. That would really be something to celebrate.
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From what Leo says, it sounds like the video driver is the next stumbling block to running it on other Mac models. (like the 1.42GHz Mac Mini I've got sitting here :( ) we need someone who knows PPC assembler to take a look at that ATIRADEON.CHIP file... maybe with machonist? :)
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@amigadave
Are you using the original AOS4 CD for an AmigaOne, or will the AOS4 CD for Classic Amiga's work?
I would have thought that due to using old pre-"bootable-cd-rom" kickstarts, and thus the inclusion of the boot floppy iwth OS4 classic, the cd-rom wouldn't be bootable? Much less using an ElTorito boot environment. That sounds a lot like the A1 version, which uses standard ElTorito aware bpoot routines.
tiffers
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Once you have booted in to Workbench, would it be possible to install OS4 to hard disk? Even if you had to boot from the OS4 CD to then boot from the installed copy of OS4?
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@Leo24
Wow, man that's smashing :-o Nice one ! :-D
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@motorollin
You'd think this would be the case. Essentially the moana cdrom is like a kickstart ROM. Once it's loaded, it looks for bootable media, such as (in the classic kickstart in a ROM sense) floppies or hard disks, and I guess now cdroms.
So I would guess that so long as you could install OS4 to hard disk, you'd just need to have the moana cdrom in the drive to boot.
The next question is, does OS4 provide functionality to eject the disk? Booting from a hybrid moana + OS4 install cd, would probably result in _alway_ booting into the install environment.
Leaving the moana cdrom in the drive permenantly kind of rules out using that drive. Does OS4 running on MacMini support other drives, such as USB DVD-ROM drives? In that case you could just leave the moana cdrom in the internal drive, and use an external drive.
These are all very pertinent questions. Of course without AOS4 install cd, a suitable macmini, moana files and the know how of making a hybrid cd image, I can't be any more help :)
tiffers.
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@tiffers
A better solution (if it worked) would be to have two partitions: one HFS to contain the Moana files, and one for OS4 in whichever filesystem OS4 uses. Then using Leo24's method you could get OF to automatically boot Moana from the HFS partition and then Kickstart 4.0 will boot OS4 from the Amiga partition. Though I have no idea whether that would work. As you say the alternative would either be to have the Moana CD in the drive when you boot and then eject it (if you can) or to have a separate external drive for CD/DVD usage and use the internal drive as a boot device with the Moana CD inserted permanently.
I wonder whether you could also add a second hard disk for Moana? So use one for Moana for OF to boot from and one for OS4 to run from? If you used a CF card you could probably fit it inside the Mac Mini case.
All of that, of course, relies on the installer actually working and Moana being able to boot from the hard drive.
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@tiffers: "unlock_eject macminiide.device 1" will do the trick. You will find it in the root directory of the Moana CD.
It's possible to install AOS4 on Mac's hard drive, but OF won't recognize the hd anymore, so you can't use the hd: boot trick afterward.
I also have trouble to get LAN working since I can't find the right device for it. Maybe it's not available. I found AOS4 to be very slow for a 1,5GHz computer. I suppose the drivers aren't optimal or in some kind of debug mode. AOS4 also crashes very often which really sucks. Sometimes only moving the mouse will freeze the OS. :(
Ok, my next steps will be to analyze slb and to do a better replacement for it which can load the modules from any device. My main goal is to be able to boot from an USB-Stick. But this whole Moana stuff is not my 1st prio project, so don't hold your breath for it.
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Is the 64 mb of vram really a requirement?. I know that os4 can boot on the A1 with a Voodoo3 16MB card, so booting off a 32MB radeon should work fine.
Leo, you said that the environmental variables are stored in the nvram forever so it itsn't neccesary to type setenv again?
Thanks in advance!!
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Leo24 wrote:
I found AOS4 to be very slow for a 1,5GHz computer. I suppose the drivers aren't optimal or in some kind of debug mode. AOS4 also crashes very often which really sucks. Sometimes only moving the mouse will freeze the OS. :(
Ok, my next steps will be to analyze slb and to do a better replacement for it which can load the modules from any device. My main goal is to be able to boot from an USB-Stick. But this whole Moana stuff is not my 1st prio project, so don't hold your breath for it.
damn it looks to be sooo unstable BUT one step at a time now...you broke the first BIG barrier Leo24 ;-) :banana:
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pkillo wrote:
From what Leo says, it sounds like the video driver is the next stumbling block to running it on other Mac models. (like the 1.42GHz Mac Mini I've got sitting here :( ) we need someone who knows PPC assembler to take a look at that ATIRADEON.CHIP file... maybe with machonist? :)
why cant one just upgrade the video card in the mini :-?
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The graphics card is built in motherboard, so no option of changing.
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If Moana is only going to work with the original A1 install of OS4 then it is ont going to help Hyperion to sell any more copies of AOS4 for Classic Amiga computers, and it won't help any of us that do not already have an A1.
I hope with time a solution will be found that will allow the many hundreds, or perhaps many thousands of us interested in running AOS4 on a PPC Mac, to realize that hope.
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amigadave wrote:
...I hope with time a solution will be found that will allow the many hundreds, or perhaps many thousands of us interested in running AOS4 on a PPC Mac, to realize that hope.
a big cheers to that :pint: :-D
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_ThEcRoW wrote:
The graphics card is built in motherboard, so no option of changing.
ahh ok now i see...lets hope that soon all Mac PPC owners will be able to run a legal copy of OS4 ..reliably that is ;-)
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[EDIT] Post retracted due to legal concerns
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Hello,
thank you for this thread! :-) Yesterday I bought my MAC MINI PPC with 1.5Ghz and 1GB RAM. Very nice machine...
Bill McEvil, please go to hell!!!
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I totally agree: Give us back the AMIGA, as you're just an oversized and corrupted fanboy who went to the dark side!!
Bill McBastard..I hate you and I wish a painfull death for you!
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@apex and gaula92
I think that's totally uncalled for. We all feel strongly about AmigaOS and the way Amiga Inc. are controlling it, but to wish somebody a "painful death" because of their business decisions is appalling. It's also against the posting guidelines, so I'd be careful what you say if you don't want to wind up banned.
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moto
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Please explain the business decisions from AInc.?
What are they doing the whole day, eating beans and producing hot air?
:-D
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@ Apex
Without Bill and Amiga Inc, we wouldnt even have AOS4, so your point is complete b0ll0cks
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a-pex wrote:
Normally I would give you a full ack, but in case of Bill McEvil I will never change my mind!!!
I'm not asking you to. Your opinion is not my concern. I was merely pointing out that I think it is shameful, and probably against the posting guidelines, to make such a statement.
a-pex wrote:
Please explain the business decisions from AInc.? What are they doing the whole day, eating beans and producing hot air?
I'm not here to explain AInc's actions. No doubt your questions are rhetorical and intended to justify your earlier comment. But a company not producing the product that you want is no justification for wishing their CEO a painful death.
a-pex wrote:
Without AmigaInc and without Bill McEwen we would have:
- AOS4 on Sam404
- AOS4 on MacMini PPC
- AOS4 maybe on some other hardware
and for classic guys the boing bag 3 and a 100% working kickstart 3.9 in hardware (everything avaible, but can not be sold or offered to the community, like Moana).
I'm not interested in speculating about what could have been. I'd rather move on than get so worked up about things which didn't happen that I start wishing people were dead :roll:
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moto
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Anyone tryed installing OS 4 on QEmu on a Mac?
Would that be a better method?
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It doesn't work. QEmu doesn't emulate the proprietary chipset which OS4 checks for, so it won't boot.
Edit - Of course this isn't an issue for Moana... but AFAIK Moana requires OF, which QEmu doesn't support.
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moto
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I agree w/motorollin..
Bill Mc(whatever)..you can hate him just dont wish "painful death" or whatever.. we're not all kids on here are we?
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Ehm...A-pex and I were talking about Bill Mc, actually: he's not a person, he's a...ehmm... horse; that's it, a horse!
Wishing a "painfull death" to a horse is not THAT bad. I lost A LOT of money because of that horse, and so did A-pex. We posted it on an Amiga forum because we...ehm...well, there's an explanation for that, too, but I can't it remember well. It won't happen again! (horses don't read A.org,, and some horses don't read at all, so...)
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a-pex wrote:
I still think that AInc. is some kind of mafia company, or something other illegal, burning the money of investors or something else. I do not understand that you can do such things in a country like the USA... If Amiga Inc. would be in Germany, we already would do everything to close this company (Visiting them, making picture, calling tax authorities, calling newspapers...).
You mean things like Thielert has done in Germany?
I love the German people, and lived there for nearly three years... but lets not make this a national pissing match, OK?
This has nothing to do with the soil it's located on. Besides, real Amiga fraud requires the Bahamas... :-D
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@ gaula92
:roflmao:
We could turn him into glue and the brand could be called Bill McGluing
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_ThEcRoW wrote:
Is the 64 mb of vram really a requirement?
Isn't the 1,5 ghz silent update of macmini only with 64mb vram ?
If not, anyone has infos on this question ?
:-?
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motorollin wrote:
a-pex wrote:
Without AmigaInc and without Bill McEwen we would have:
- AOS4 on Sam404
- AOS4 on MacMini PPC
- AOS4 maybe on some other hardware
and for classic guys the boing bag 3 and a 100% working kickstart 3.9 in hardware (everything avaible, but can not be sold or offered to the community, like Moana).
I'm not interested in speculating about what could have been. I'd rather move on than get so worked up about things which didn't happen that I start wishing people were dead :roll:
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moto
I have to agree, though I think I'm less charitable than Moto... I just don't see the point in wasting my time thinking about Amiga Inc. and McEwan etc...
I moved to the idea of an OpenSource AmigaOS almost exactly 10 years ago... By the time all these criminals had moved onto the scene I was already gone... We have our Next-Gen AmigaOS operating systems... Just select the one that suits your needs* and use it...
*needs:
Got an A1? - Use AOS4.
Got an EFIKA - USE MOS.
Got A PPC in your Amiga... take your pick from the above...
Got anything else... Use AROS.
Nothing we can do now... or probably anyone ever could have done would have changed (except perhaps the move to QNX/Linux a la MacOS X style) the situation the Amiga is in now.
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motorollin wrote:
It doesn't work. QEmu doesn't emulate the proprietary chipset which OS4 checks for, so it won't boot.
Edit - Of course this isn't an issue for Moana... but AFAIK Moana requires OF, which QEmu doesn't support.
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moto
The question would be then, Why wouldn't Moana boot in PearPC?
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In Amigathering IX in Rhodes (28th June) we managed to "boot" the kickstart of OS4 in a Mac Mini.
We even got the bott options by holding down the mousebuttons during boot.
But.
Since the Kickstart was loaded, macmini stopped any support for keyboard, mouse, cd etc. We didn't manage to go any further with it.
Oh, well, it was kinda cool to see the amiga kickstart running on a macmini natively :-D
P.S. there is also a video of this try, will be online on www.amigahellas.gr soon
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bloodline wrote:
The question would be then, Why wouldn't Moana boot in PearPC?
Does PearPC support OpenFirmware?
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
bloodline wrote:
The question would be then, Why wouldn't Moana boot in PearPC?
Does PearPC support OpenFirmware?
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moto
Touché
http://pearpc.net/viewtopic.php?p=47770&sid=8b6d16cf1365ecef0c3ad4789a7e26a8
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I wasn't being sarcastic, I actually didn't know whether it supports OF or not :-)
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
I wasn't being sarcastic, I actually didn't know whether it supports OF or not :-)
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moto
Well fought sir.. you're just boasting now!!! ;-)
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I already had my counter-argument ready in case it did support OF, so I knew I was safe either way ;-)
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
I already had my counter-argument ready in case it did support OF, so I knew I was safe either way ;-)
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moto
I am rubber you are glue...
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[EDIT] Post retracted due to legal concerns
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For all of the guys complaining about Amiga Inc. We're lucky we even have Amiga Forever.
It isn't illegal for Amiga Inc NOT to license the technology. Amiga fans may not like it, it may not a good thing, but this sort of thing happens all the time.
Some companies will purchase a particular license category, ip or product design just to keep a competitor out of the marketplace.
I've also seen cases where ip is purchased and sat on until the owners feel it's the right time to release new product due to advancements in technology or new markets.
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For all of the guys complaining about Amiga Inc. We're lucky we even have Amiga Forever.
It isn't illegal for Amiga Inc NOT to license the technology. Amiga fans may not like it, it may not a good thing, but this sort of thing happens all the time.
Indeed, and they really should be somewhat choosy to make sure we get some wuality results from anyone they do allow a license to. But... It is more than a little annoying that Amiga Inc. made such a big deal about telling everyone they were going to license new hardware, they set up that technologylicensing@amiga.com email (or whatever it was exactly) which was intended to receive and discuss any and all licensing inquiries, and then immediately and completely ingore everyone who tried to do what Amiga Inc. asked of us. Bill McEwen in some 20 questions interview thing said he sent out questionairres to any and all who inquired this way. I don't believe him at all about that. I contacted that email address a number of times, I even stopped using yam on my A4000 and started emailing on my PC/thunderbird in case my A4000T was eating emails somehow. (unlikely as I got a lot of email on it) I never received any response of any kind whatsoever from Amiga Inc.
So while it's not illegal to refuse licensing, you're right, I do think that McEwen and friends were just jerking us around. And that does irritate me, and I will feel free to complain about that.
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"Sir you fight like a cow"
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JJ wrote:
"Sir you fight like a cow"
And how, pray tell, does a cow fight? Got a youtube clip to go with that? :lol:
Hans
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It was in refrence to bloodlines comment. I could list a good few more.
I am sure someone will spot the game refrence sooner rather than later :lol:
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JJ wrote:
"Sir you fight like a cow"
How appropriate, you fight like a dairy farmer!
Ah, the memories... At least, I think that was it anyway :-)
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A cow fights like this.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2395131226735897988 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2395131226735897988)
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Hi all,
I'd just like to throw in my experiences with this. I actually don't frequent the Amiga forums so much these days, so only found out about this "Moana" thing earlier this evening quite by accident while looking for info on a project I'm considering (porting Mono to AmigaOS).
I have a Mac Mini, and an AmigaOS4 Final for AmigaOne CD (legitimately - not some pirated thing!).
My Mac Mini is NOT the "right spec", it's a 1.42 G4 with 32MB VRAM instead of the "required" 64MB. Also, the Open Firmware version is 4.8.9f1 instead of the "required" 4.9.4f1.
I don't use the Mini for anything anymore, since I really only need one Mac (most of my systems are Linux) and it was just sitting gathering dust. I'm quite willing to do ANYTHING to the old thing.
Reasonable start - I ALMOST have the right hardware, and I've got the software.
I tried the Moana ISO on it's own - didn't seem to get too far. Found a post on another forum mentioning the "setenv" that's required (doh!) and then got further (as in, got to see the 6 options for booting).
I actually tried all 6 options from the boot menu (documented each of them as I went, just in case). Got some pretty things with the P96 selections (kills Open Firmware, loads EXECSG, but then just repeats some error in graphics.library over and over in a pretty blue almost-topazish sort of font).
At that point, I stumbled across the thread here and read everyone's posts. A lot of smart people here it seems! (especially Leo24)
I re-built a new ISO by combining my OS4 CD with the Moana files. Same results (I was crazy enough to retry all 6 tests as well)
I re-built yet another ISO (thankfully I have a LARGE pile of blank CDs) with the "safe" version of ATIRadeon.chip instead of the original (thanks for noticing it Jeff!). Booting this one, I went straight for option 5 (no point trying the others at this stage I decided). And finally, I was rewarded with the Boing Ball and disk going in to the drive.
At this point (about 15 minutes ago) I was happy. I had something resembling an Amiga system sitting there. I wanted to see the early startup menu, but embarrassingly, couldn't find a suitable mouse (my Mini had an old one-button Mac mouse attached and my other mouses are bluetooth with the USB dongles LONG ago lost (integrated bluetooth in most of my hardware)).
So, tomorrow, I will grab a mouse from work, and the adventures will continue!
-
[EDIT] Post retracted due to legal concerns
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@ YttriumOx
wow..great work :-D please do keep us up to date as I cant wait to try this on my mini too :pint:
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Great work and info Jeff.
I do not have a PPC Mac Mini (mine is Intel), but I do have
a dead G4 PowerBook laptop that I would resurect if AOS4.x,
or MOS2.x were to be ported to it.
You ask why would anyone want AOS4.x instead of MacOS10.x
on their Mac hardware, and I would answer this: (in no order)
1. Just to see if it can be done.
2. Because of that lightning fast response AmigaOS4.x provides.
3. Because this is just a first step toward network drivers
and many other improvements that will follow later.
4. The obvious reason is that there is no current hardware
available for AmigaOS4.x and there are still many people
that want to develop for it and to use it for their everyday
computing needs, even if it never catches up with other OSes.
5. There are thousands of PPC Macs out there that will soon
be available for next to nothing and it will be a great source
of faster hardware for that lightning fast AOS4.x (or MOS2.x).
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Looks like someone has released a combined Moana and OS4 torrent on thepiratebay.org
Do a search for "Amiga Moana"
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What is the "safe" atiradeon.chip file?
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Hi - its on the mona disc in kickstarts. Its a shame but I think the combined version on PirateBay is the standard and not the safe.And its quite tricky creating a combined ISO.
@_ThEcRoW can you let me know if you get anywhere.
*I would ask anyone intrested to support Hyperion Entertainment.
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You ask why would anyone want AOS4.x instead of MacOS10.x
on their Mac hardware, and I would answer this: (in no order)
I want a laptop for OS4.x. Apple's PPC iBooks and Powerbooks are the most sensible way to get that.
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So the file on the pirate bay one isn't the safe one?. Is the one on the moana files?
Thanks!!!
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If you look for Amiga Moana on Piratebay, you'll see both the Moana files and the combine OS 4 for Mac Mini. They are SO close each other!
We're ALMOST here! (My mac mini, as MOST of them, is a 4.8.9f1, pre-silent update, so we need the safe atiradeon.chip file).
Keep up the good work! How can I help, guys?
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its never ever going to happen, period!!! :roll:
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Does anyone know why I get the message "USB stack not started." when booting from the CD??? :-?
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@a1260
Sorry to disappoint you, but it already happened, some users already have os4 on their minis, so it's a matter of time that it reach the rest of usd who want it.
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Leopard sucks on a G4, besides you can buy a complete 1.43 MHz G4 MacMini for less than a 25 MHz 68040 Amiga. It's small change, a couple hundred dollars. Yes, I lust after OS4 on a Mac Mini...
(http://www.emofaces.com/en/emoticons/c/cricket-emoticon.gif)
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Hi everyone...
I see that some users talk about atiradeon.chip safe or not safe version, well... browsing in the 45mb iso file on /kickstart directoy are atiradeon.chip and atiradeon.chip_safe.
What i need for a g4 mini 32mb radeon? rename one of this atiradeon file? copy another version to the iso? if we need another version, what version?
Thanks.
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A1260 wrote:
its never ever going to happen, period!!! :roll:
There are so many members here that speak in absolutes! :lol:
I love it when they get to eat their words. Time has a way of making fools of many prophets that predict the future. :-D
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It looks like another ISO was released today on thepiratebay and mininova which has a loader profile for the ATI safe driver. It also contains the July 2007 updates.
For those who own a 1.42GHz G4 Mac Mini, this could be your lucky day... :-D
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Excellent! Downloading now! :-D Can't wait to get home and see whether this works.
BTW ck007, I love your avatar. Is (s)he a Staffie?
--
moto
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Downloading here, too! Today IS the day...my dusty Mac Mini G4 is AT LAST going to run THE DESKTOP OS. I knew this day would eventually come! (That's why I got PowerPC Minis instead of Intel ones: what a farsighted man I am!)
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I get black screen when booting with the safe driver. How did you it ck007?
I have a 1.42 ghz mac mini 32mb vram
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My firmware is 4.8.9f4.
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I get a garbled/corrupted screen with strange colors on boot, just after OF, when using the ATI_SAFE profile. Any ideas? My firmware is VERY close to yours, TheCrow, being 4.8.9f1.
it's SO NEAR now!! I can heard the beast coming....hehehe!
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I get the same screen with corrupted colors predominating purple using ati_safe, my mini is a 32mb gfx memory, i can use keyboard and mouse in this corrupted screen and click icons, move windows... but seems great advance, i hope this error will be fix soon.
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@_ThEcRoW
I have a 1.5GHz Mac Mini. Here's my specs:
Model Name: Mac mini
Model Identifier: PowerMac10,2
Processor Name: PowerPC G4 (1.2)
Processor Speed: 1.5 GHz
Number Of CPUs: 1
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 1 GB
Bus Speed: 167 MHz
Boot ROM Version: 4.9.4f0
It seems we get 3 different results:
1) It works
2) Black screen
3) Garbled screen
On my Mac Mini, the non-safe driver works perfect. When I try using the safe driver, the screen looks fine but the pointer is a transparent cyan colour.
Maybe if everyone posts their Mac Mini details (found under About this Mac), we could try troubleshoot the problems.
Cheers,
ck16
_ThEcRoW wrote:
I get black screen when booting with the safe driver. How did you it ck007?
I have a 1.42 ghz mac mini 32mb vram
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Ok specs follow...
Tietokoneen nimi: Mac mini
Tietokoneen malli: PowerMac10,1
Prosessorin tyyppi: PowerPC G4 (1.2)
Prosessorien lukumäärä: 1
Prosessorin nopeus: 1.42 GHz
L2-välimuisti (prosessoria kohden): 512 Kt
Muisti: 512 Mt
Väylänopeus: 167 MHz
Boot ROMin versio: 4.8.9f1
And my result with the latest iso are corrupted color screen but mouse and kb works.
1.2hgz and 1.4ghz mac minis have the same specs and 1.5 aka "silent update" have 64mb gfx card and updated boot rom... i dont think that rom firmware cause errors like corrupted screens, this come by atiradeon.chip, but this is only my humble opinion.
-
But the radeon graphics adapter on the minis with 32 mb vram is the same, isn' it?. Mine is a radeon 9200.
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Yes, all minis ppc have radeon 9200 just 1.2 and 1.4 have 32mb and 1.5 64mb thats all, but i dont understand why this corrupted screens just for 32mb of gfx memory.
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I get the same screen with corrupted colors predominating purple using ati_safe, my mini is a 32mb gfx memory.
It's specs are:
Nombre del equipo: Mac mini
Modelo de ordenador: PowerMac10,1
Tipo de CPU: PowerPC G4 (1.2)
Unidades de CPU: 1
Velocidad de la CPU: 1.42 GHz
Caché de nivel 2 (por CPU): 512 KB
Memoria: 1 GB
Velocidad del bus: 167 MHz
Versión de la ROM de arranque: 4.8.9f1
Número de serie: YM51295NRHU
What other factors could be causing this'? I ALSO HAVE Gentoo Linux installed in a partition...But I CAN'Y see the possible relation.
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Id like to understand what the later firmwares add/upgrade and implement.
Would it be worth testing the other ATIRadeon drivers from A1,Classic or at some stage 4.1 install disc as there probably all slightly different?
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Am I correct in thinking that this iso that is on piratebay includes the AOS4 Final files. So you dont need a copy of AOS4 Final for the A1 to try this ?
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JJ: That's NOT the point here. We're discussing how to boot it.
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No its very much is the point. The discussion is about illegal/pirated software and several users point out where to get said software.
It breaks so many site rules.
It seems that the mods and Wayne, don’t care. I think I may know why, but you can't have one rule for some discussions and another for others
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No one is pointing or providing links to any source of illegal files. We are discussing about the booting process, and that is not illegal in this board if i'm not mistaken.
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nobody is pasting links to where the files are located, so there is no problem.
Anyone with half a clue can google "Amiga Moana" and I'm sure links will show up, so saying piratebay and saying "google it" are the same difference in my book.
Carry on, just dont post links. I'm interested to see where this goes I just dont see the point.
What if you get it working, how complete is this version? How stable? How current? I'm betting its behind the current version of OS4 for A1.
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My Mac Mini config:
(http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/morphos-macmini2-small.jpg) (http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/morphos-macmini2.jpg)
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@Piru:
LOL!!! MOS on MacMini.. show off!! thats very cool though. Too bad its not out for the regular folks to use.
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What if you get it working, how complete is this version? How stable? How current? I'm betting its behind the current version of OS4 for A1.
Without official support it is only a (nice) toy...
Piru wrote:
My Mac Mini config:
Great !
The question is... "When ?" :-D
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This article has info about flashing the ATI Radeon 9200 http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/24812
http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20050812025619862
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Piru wrote:
My Mac Mini config
Give it to me!!! :lol:
Seriously: I'm really curious when I will be able to run showconfig on my Mini aswell (legally)...
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Zorro wrote:
The question is... "When ?" :-D
The screenshot kind of answers that: When 3.0 is out... :-)
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I tried the iso from piratebay on my Mac Mini today and I got it to boot up WB in the first attempt!
But I couldn't install it be course after WB had loaded my keyboard stopped working... and my mac mouse only have one button.
But it seams to be quite easy to get it working though :)
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Guys can you list your ROM Revision for your Radeon 9200
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Wow this screenshot of morphos in mac mini is very cool, but morphos 3.0 will be released in years i think :(
@booboo1200
If ati radeon 9200 fails enought for make a fix, maybe this gfx card need to fail on linux or osx and in my case osx or liny dont show corrupted color screen.
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@Piru,
Stop messing with us!. that's not fair :lol:
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Piru wrote:
My Mac Mini config:
That isn't OS4 or OSX. Shame. Get another Mac Mini and try again.
________
Free Xxx Movies (http://www.fucktube.com/)
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@booboo1200
If ati radeon 9200 fails enought for make a fix, maybe this gfx card need to fail on linux or osx and in my case osx or liny dont show corrupted color screen.
It doesnt work like that - It must have been very hard to make the Moana with mac hardware being so closed source and listing your ROM Revision could help rule out problems :-)
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From what I believe, the latest ISO released contains the OS4 Final + July 2007 files overlayed with the bare Moana fileset.
So far we've tried the OS4 final ATI chip driver, the Moana ATI chip driver and Moana Safe ATI chip driver.
Somebody posted here a few months ago that they have a 32MB Radeon card in their Mac Mini, and received the black screen, but once they merged the files, they managed to get the screen working.
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Would I be right in guessing the working Minis have the later ATI Radeon -ROm Revision 113-xxxxx-116?
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Reaaaally frustrating this whole situation isn't it? I mean, if OS4 was made to run on existing hardware like the Mac Mini, I'd buy a legitimate copy in a shot, and a Mini off ebay...
Ho hum....
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How can we tell the Radeon-ROM version in our minis, BooBoo?
Can it be updated? I tried the controller update for MAC OSX, but it doesn't seem to flash the ROM.. Any ideas?
[EDIT] WE CAN FIND OUR ATI RADEON ROM VERSION IN THE SYSTEM PROFILER.
Mine shows garbled graphics on OS4, and here are it's detalis:
ATI Radeon 9200:
Modelo de chipset: ATY,RV280
Tipo: Pantalla
Bus: AGP
VRAM (total): 32 MB
Fabricante: ATI (0x1002)
ID del dispositivo: 0x5962
ID de la revisión: 0x0001
Revisión de la ROM: 113-xxxxx-116
Pantallas:
SyncMaster:
Resolución: 1280 x 1024 @ 60 Hz
Profundidad: Color de 32 bits
Core Image: Incompatible
Pantalla principal: Sí
Duplicado: Desactivado
En línea: Sí
Quartz Extreme: Compatible
Rotación: Compatible
PLEASE post the details FOR THE WORKING ONES, TOO.
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Yep, mine is ROM Revision: 113-xxxxx-133
Is there any way for those on lower versions to flash their video BIOS?
BooBoo1200 wrote:
Would I be right in guessing the working Minis have the later ATI Radeon -ROm Revision 113-xxxxx-116?
-
There's (THAT I KNOW OF) only thata official ATI updater for MAC OSX, but I tried it and my rom version hasn't changed...
It seems PC users have a flashrom utility to hach their cards for G4 usage, but it's obviously unusable from mac mini: other ideas?
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Ok, so it has been established pretty firmly that the pirate Moana ISO is the real thing, that it works on select setups, and that it still has a fair way to go before it would be a fully usable system. Now what? Unless the Moana authors get to finish it off, it's still of no use to anyone.
I suppose that the idea that it could work is promising, but it's still not of much use.
Hans
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It DOES work, Hans: there's a LOT of people there out using it. THE ONLY PROBLEM comes from an outdated ROM VERSION in our Mac Minis.
For me, it's "as soon as Amiga OS 4 runs on my mini, OSX can go hell".
And I repeat: IT'S usable, IT RUNS, and WE have to find a way to start using it in every Mac Mini with a PowerPC processor.
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Its not 100% from what ive been reading though.
Thought quite a few things ddidnt actually work on it, network and sound for instance.
Is there eveidence of people running apps and games and uae stable on these, andd system ffriendly 68k apps etc etc
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by gaula92 on 2008/8/28 9:23:44
It DOES work, Hans: there's a LOT of people there out using it. THE ONLY PROBLEM comes from an outdated ROM VERSION in our Mac Minis.
For me, it's "as soon as Amiga OS 4 runs on my mini, OSX can go hell".
And I repeat: IT'S usable, IT RUNS, and WE have to find a way to start using it in every Mac Mini with a PowerPC processor.
show us videos and pictures NOW!!
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It DOES work, Hans: there's a LOT of people there out using it. THE ONLY PROBLEM comes from an outdated ROM VERSION in our Mac Minis.
I can tell by all the activity on all Amiga forums that the Mac Mini version is working great and tons of people are using it.
If this were the case you'd have actual users posting in this thread showing proof of this with steps required/system requirements, other than some youtube video. I'll be getting a G4 mini sometime this week so I can try it out on that machine but after that it gets deleted since I'm not a OS4 user.
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Just wait for that RADEON-Rom flashing and you'll see...
There's people here who has it working. I f I become one of them, I'll post pics & videos
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@gaula92
Just wait for that RADEON-Rom flashing
Last I checked the only flashing tools available were for the OEM gfxcards.
So how exactly would anyone flash their Mac Mini?
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Its more like beta testing something ACube never had a chance to do.
Rom Revision - System Profile /Graphics?
Can you install Display 4.5 and see if it updates the Rom Revision.
http://www.123macmini.com/news/story/293.html
It looks more like the correct Rom Revision is 113-xxxxx-133 can some confirm?
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For those having problems accessing the Mac mini Open Firmware, try using an Apple keyboard.
I found that using an MS and a Logitech keyboard both resulted in no open firmware, yet other commands such as reset PRAM worked fine. Switching to an old Apple G3 keyboard worked fine.
Can get as far as a purple screen with dodgy colours - as others have described. To me this looks more like an incorrect screen resolution or refresh rather than a graphics card problem, but I am no expert.
Mac mini G4 1.42GHz, 1GB RAM
ROM 4.8.9f1
ATI Radeon 9200 32MB, ROM 113-xxxxx-116
Good luck, this is an interesting development!
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I dont seepeople with mac minis runs os4 on it, some user some pages back in this post tells that runs on a 1,42 with 32mb gfx memory... if this is true, why people dont explain it?
Now somt post back people speak about flash radeon version just for test, this is pure hype :(
By the way this is my radeon version 113-xxxxx-116
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@Piru
Last I checked the only flashing tools available were for the OEM gfxcards.
So how exactly would anyone flash their Mac Mini?
Linux has PROC, it makes possible quite many things like dumping firmwares of your graphics cards and such. Maybe it's possible to write on it too, I think it can be possible.
So maybe using Linux could solve the problem of AmigaOS4 not running, ironic eh? :-D
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ATI flahes might not Flash your mini but other macs with OEM Cards and points to the fact there may be enough difference in the Rom Revison to make a difference As there have been been problems and mac has updated the Rom Revison for better compatibility and more features.
Also Check this
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Comp/comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc/2007-04/msg00070.html
I dont know if it can be flashed but linux distros have come up agaist this problem and over come it.
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@timofonic
Linux has PROC, it makes possible quite many things like dumping firmwares of your graphics cards and such.
Mac Mini radeon has no ROM or firmware visible in the PCI space, so linux can't even read anything from it, yet alone write.
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@BooBoo1200
Funny that it works just fine with other OSes such as *BSD, MorphOS, etc.
Can you point any workarounds enabled in linux for example?
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The amount of web pages ive been through!!!!
But I read a post and they updated the Driver to suit the Rom Revison in this case that is not possible.
-
I think the previous link I provided answears your question
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Comp/comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc/2007-04/msg00070.html
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@BooBoo1200
No, it does not.
If the "problem" is like described in that message, then the problem is in the "custom non-osX-OS" radeon driver, not the firmware.
Also, it is a well known fact that Apple never released any flash updates for the PPC Mac Minis.
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Piru wrote:
@BooBoo1200
No, it does not.
If the "problem" is like described in that message, then the problem is in the "custom non-osX-OS" radeon driver, not the firmware.
Apple has a strange relationship in wich they pay to unlock features of the underclocked Radeon in the MacMini - Moana may not have patches for the lower probably more locked Radeon Rom Revision . OSX patches these holes
In this case update the driver or update the Rom Revision probably no need for both - Better drivers would be better but this is an unofficial project.
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@BooBoo1200
Apple has a strange relationship in wich they pay to unlock features of the underclocked Radeon in the MacMini - Moana may not have patches for the lower probably more locked Radeon Rom Revision . OSX patches these holes
Uh they do what? That makes no sense at all. I repeat, I don't see any workaround or patches in the linux radeon driver. The performance is identical to Mac OS X.
RV280 isn't exactly rocket science either.
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Sorry mate I think were talking about different things my point is even OSX is patched and Linux is patched theres no reason for Linux not to work as good as OSX.Sorry talking about different things.
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@BooBoo1200
my point is even OSX is patched and Linux is patched theres no reason for Linux not to work as good as OSX.
And I ask again, where is the patch in Linux or *BSD?
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Im lost - the patch is the software driver to make OSX work across the board on all MacMini Rom Revison - Mac could make a version of OSX that only worked with one Rom Revision but whats the point of that? Or Linux that only works on one Rom Revision?
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@BooBoo1200
I am asking where in the Linux, *BSD or X source tree the supposed patch is located at. I don't see it.
Frankly, I believe there is no such thing, but rather just proper chipset initialization, which for some reason is lacking in the OS that has problems.
Which is more probable:
A) There's some secret apple patch that fixes the problem for every other OS but the said OS. Magically the patch is invisible in at least two of the OSes.
or
B) That said other OS is just buggy and doesn't do proper chipset initialization (the gfxcard chipset or any other related HW resource).
?
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There is no specific patch the driver the one driver is writen to be compatible with all versions of the Firmware of the same card for the one card - but you could through bad programing or lack of testing or even on pupose you could write a driver that only works with one version of the graphics cards firmware.
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BooBoo1200 wrote:
through bad programing or lack of testing or even on pupose you could write a driver that only works with one version of the graphics cards firmware.
Which is B. So you seem you agree with Piru. :-P
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i have yet again read two new sides of NOTHING, serious its about time you guys wake up, this aos4.0 on mac-mini is not going to happen, period. :roll:
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Colani1200 wrote:
BooBoo1200 wrote:
through bad programing or lack of testing or even on pupose you could write a driver that only works with one version of the graphics cards firmware.
Which is B. So you seem you agree with Piru. :-P
;-)
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Ah right. So there is no "patch", just proper chipset initialization.
Regardless, since there are no flashupdates available the only solution is to fix the driver.
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Well that would be probably be the correct term:-D
and thanks I looking for answears but with all ball {bleep} aside would you considser it possible to flash the Rom Revision even or even chip the Mac? Or the way you see it is only a updated driver?
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would you considser it possible to flash the Rom Revision even or even chip the Mac?
I don't see a way.
By "chipping" you mean to physically swap some flash memory on the board? Or remove the flash, program it and put it back? That might work, assuming you could do it without damaging the HW. Would still be pain in the backside though, as the Mac Mini HW is really really tiny.
http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/macmini/macmini_board.jpg
See the chip on the left bottom (AM29L...). That's type 1 TSOP40 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_small-outline_package) packaging, 40 pins total, 0.5mm pitch. There's just a 0.3mm gap between the pins. Ouch.
But without network and audio drivers, with flaky USB, instability and so on, would you really bother?
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Come this far I just want an OS to get by teeth into.
best wait and see if more people can report there ATI Radeon -ROm Revision!
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Please lest be serious, radeon fw on the mac mini is not the reason if moana work or dont work, i have a mac mini and i like to install in it os4 but we only have hype like information about it, i like morphos too in the mac mini but at elast we have more information about this and no hype.
Lest talk about the choices to install the moana files that we have actually without fantasies.
Please, hope that nobody take this ofensive.
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AFAIK the OS4 Radeon driver doesn't even use the ROM. If there are any issues due to different versions, then this means that the driver needs a little more work.
Hans
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this all is interesting... so how much does that mac mini cost? what would be realistic price for model with 1.25Ghz?
(a bit offtopic, sorry)
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orange wrote:
so how much does that mac mini cost?
I paid EUR 190,- for mine (1.33 GHz silent upgrade with 1 GB RAM).
@Piru: Are all the boards listed on your screenshot actually working?
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Are all the boards listed on your screenshot actually working?
Some don't have drivers. Obviously there is still work to do.
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Here are my radeon´s specs:
ATI Radeon 9200:
Modelo de chipset: ATY,RV280
Tipo: Pantalla
Bus: AGP
VRAM (total): 32 MB
Fabricante: ATI (0x1002)
ID del dispositivo: 0x5962
ID de la revisión: 0x0001
Revisión de la ROM: 113-xxxxx-120
Pantallas:
SDM-E96D:
Resolución: 1280 x 1024 @ 75 Hz
Profundidad: Color de 32 bits
Core Image: Incompatible
Pantalla principal: Sí
Duplicado: Desactivado
En línea: Sí
Quartz Extreme: Compatible
Rotación: Compatible
Hope this helps.
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It seems possible
113-xxxxx-120 = Black Screen
113-xxxxx-116 = Garbled Screen
113-xxxxx-133 = Works
Yes Id be intrested to know if MorphOS works across all version of the Rom Revision at all resolutions
The drivers need patching ;-)
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@BooBoo1200
Id be intrested to know if MorphOS works across all version of the Rom Revision at all resolutions
Naturally.
My Mini has -120 for example.
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BooBoo1200 wrote:
It seems possible
113-xxxxx-120 = Black Screen
113-xxxxx-116 = Garbled Screen
113-xxxxx-133 = Works
This is mathematics?, maybe is only a bad driver.
Yes Id be intrested to know if MorphOS works across all version of the Rom Revision at all resolutions
The drivers need patching ;-)
Please morphos have an official support isnt like moana, developers will make morphos runs in all macminis.
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Machine Model: PowerMac10,1
CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (1.1)
Number Of CPUs: 1
CPU Speed: 1.42 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 256 MB
Bus Speed: 167 MHz
Boot ROM Version: 4.8.9f1
ATI Radeon 9200:
Chipset Model: ATY,RV280
Type: Display
Bus: AGP
VRAM (Total): 32 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x5962
Revision ID: 0x0001
ROM Revision: 113-xxxxx-116
I get a black screen with num/scroll/caps lock stuck on :-(
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
...
ROM Revision: 113-xxxxx-116
I get a black screen with num/scroll/caps lock stuck on :-(
Well that screws up kickstart's little table above. So the black screen, garbled-screen, all-good differences may be due to other factors.
Hans
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kickstart wrote:
Please morphos have an official support isnt like moana, developers will make morphos runs in all macminis.
Let's dream bigger and hope for MorphOS running on ALL PPC Macs! Not just the Mac Mini's. :-D
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If enough people test Moana, then it should be possible through a process of elimination to establish exactly what is preventing it from working properly, and hopefully then work towards fixing the boot CD to work around it.
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
If enough people test Moana, then it should be possible through a process of elimination to establish exactly what is preventing it from working properly, and hopefully then work towards fixing the boot CD to work around it.
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moto
I agree and look forward to it.
But how do you (we) "work around" getting it legally from Hyperion/AOS4 Team, and how do we stop it from dying a slow death at the hands of A.Inc, should they prevail in their attempt to obtain AOS4? :-?
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why don't you all run some special hardware identifying software like everest/sisoftSandra on PC (there must be something similar for macmini) and compare outputs?
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@amigadave
Hopefully Moana is enough for someone to get it working. Then there's little AInc can do - it's already out there!
@orange
I think the information from System Profiler (the stuff people have been posting) is probably enough. There is more information in there, but from the sounds of it the video card and firmware version are the stumbling blocks. I think once the working combinations have been identified it should be possible to work out why some machines don't work, and whether a fix is possible.
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moto
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I knew all of you were closet pirates. :lol:
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@TheMagicM
Nope, got a boxed copy of OS4 sitting in a drawer upstairs :-)
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moto
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yea but not a boxed copy of Amiga Moana software ;-) no big deal, I'm just giving you a hard time. I'm no angel.
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Hey guys, what about disk partitioning schemes causing the errors?
What partition scheme does your MAC MINI use? Or even hard disk model or keyboard...
What's the next thing we should share here?
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motorollin wrote:
@amigadave
Hopefully Moana is enough for someone to get it working. Then there's little AInc can do - it's already out there!
moto
Well, my question was how do we get "it", Moana legally from Hyperion/AOS4 Team, not AOS4 itself. Also, I was under the impression that the few people that are attempting to get AOS4 running on their MacMini's are using and can only use their original AOS4 CD's from their A-1 computers, not the AmigaOS4 for Classic Amigas that can currently be purchased.
I would be one of the first in line to buy AOS4 if it would run on any G4 or faster Mac hardware, or any commonly available x86 hardware too.
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Does anyone have an e-mail address for Andrea Vallinotto?
If so, please PM me
Cheers,
ck16
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amigadave wrote:
kickstart wrote:
Please morphos have an official support isnt like moana, developers will make morphos runs in all macminis.
Let's dream bigger and hope for MorphOS running on ALL PPC Macs! Not just the Mac Mini's. :-D
Just getting MorphOS to run on single core G4 power macs would make MorphOS much more accessible. You can get used early G4 power Macs for under $100 now making them very cheap hardware.
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This hardware under 100eur becomes up to 200 or 300eur if its done for amiga people :(
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kickstart wrote:
This hardware under 100eur becomes up to 200 or 300eur if its done for amiga people :(
Right but if it MorphOS ran on old G4 Power Macs we wouldn't be dealing with Amiga hardware.
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Recently i acquired 1gb module for my mini and now it works!!!. I only had 256 mb.
My mini is 1.42ghz with a 32mb radeon and works with the two loaders, standard and ati_safe.
:-D :pint:
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Wow! What RAM brand did you get? I've 1GB on my mini G4 (Kingston) , wich is 1.42Ghz too, but I just can't make it work, ATI or SAFE doesn't make much difference...
Did you actually install the system?
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The ram is a hynix module, the same brand as the one that came with the mini. As for the installation, i'm already investigating the partitions and searching for more info on the net.
I will keep you informed.
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Hey The_Crow, any news?
By the way, since you are spanish as I am, where did you get your new shiny RAM and what's the exact model? Well, if you can tell me the speed, it will be enough. I am in Madrid at the moment so maybe I'll get it here...
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Memory is not the problem, i have 1gb kingstom at the proper speed for mac mini g4 and moana gets the colour corrupted screen, i dont know why os4 runs on your macmini, by the way... you talk about partitions, what partitions?
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/
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MorphOS for the Mini? It's been a while since we heard of it. I said it other times: I don't believe it's gonna be released. Amiga OS4 for the mini, even in an "alternative" way seems a good alternative to me.
TheCrow, what hard disk/partitions do you have? C'mon man, give us some more info...
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MorphOS for the mini will be released. :-)
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Better yet,make MorphOS run on as many G3/G4/G5 as possible;Apple used a limited number of video cards in factory configurations.Most of the Apple PPC towers will host at least 1.5GB of ram,some more.
An OS which brags about being light on resources ought to deal well with 768Mb ram ,in my opinion.I use 768 because that is 3 cheap 256 dimms .
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But while waiting for mos, os4 experimenting is cool.
Gaula, i have not had much time lately so no much news in the installation scheme. Hdtoolbox sees the hd and dvddrive correctly, but i need to be sure about the steps involved because i don't want to screw my osx installation.
I will people informed as soon as i get anything new.
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ok ok... you tell us that your 1,42ghz, 1gb ram, radeon 32mb, works with moana and rest of the info is mistery like ever :-P please lest talk about it in the good way or lest forget this.
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where's the proof?
got a video that shows a monitor hooked up to the Mac Mini that isnt blurry and shows the cable going from the mini to the monitor?
If you got it working, thats good.. I wonder how unstable it is and what all you can do with it.
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It works, there is a lot of people reporting it boots. I believe The_CroW. In fact, it DOES work in my mini but shows a corrupted graphic screen, that's all..
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Work in your macmini but a corrupted screen is showed... i call to it that doesnt work.
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a corrputed screen = doesnt work = unuseable.
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gaula92 wrote:
MorphOS for the Mini? It's been a while since we heard of it. I said it other times: I don't believe it's gonna be released. Amiga OS4 for the mini, even in an "alternative" way seems a good alternative to me.
Why do you say that you don't think MorphOS "gonna be released" for the MacMini after one of the MorphOS development team has shown a screen shot of it running on his personal MacMini? Then you turn around and say that AmigaOS4 for the MacMini seems good when the AmigaOS developers have stated over and over again that they are not working on porting to the MacMini and that anyone running the stolen Moana files to get AmigaOS4 running on their MacMini would be breaking the law, as the code is stolen and should never have been distributed in any way or form.
:crazy:
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@the_crow
No more news about this "miracle"?
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amigadave wrote:
... and that anyone running the stolen Moana files to get AmigaOS4 running on their MacMini would be breaking the law, as the code is stolen and should never have been distributed in any way or form.
Law? What law? Stolen code? What do you mean? It was/is out there in the open and noone did or is doing squat about it - normally that means "public domain".
And I can buy software and get it running on whatever hardware I like, no matter what the EULAs say - without breaking any laws.
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kolla wrote:
amigadave wrote:
... and that anyone running the stolen Moana files to get AmigaOS4 running on their MacMini would be breaking the law, as the code is stolen and should never have been distributed in any way or form.
Law? What law? Stolen code? What do you mean? It was/is out there in the open and noone did or is doing squat about it - normally that means "public domain".
And I can buy software and get it running on whatever hardware I like, no matter what the EULAs say - without breaking any laws.
So if someone steals source code, or program executables with keyfiles and posts them to a Pirate site on the Internet, it makes it Public Domain just because no one is "Doing Squat" about it??? You are funny! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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my take on Moana and piracy in general...
What you do on your time is your business. Just dont post a link on AO. If you have a copy of Moana, more power to you, I'll download it just for the heck of it if you'all get it working so I can test it out.
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Hello everyone, I have read the thread as I stumbled upon a mac mini G4
and a moana cd but I can't get it to work..My mini is 1,25GHZ 1GB RAM
ATI RADEON 32 MB and boot rom 4.8.9f1.
Option a gives me a black screen and option b give me a corrupted screen output..
Has someone finally found a solution about this?Can the moana cd work
in other MAC minis except the 64mb ones?
Is this a problem of the boot rom?Can I update my rom to 4.9.4f1 in some way?Or is it a problem of the graphics card chip?
Please hlp.I am really stuck on this...
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@lechuck
moana is useless without usb/Network/audio/mac partition support. Download here a fix for your problem: http://www.morphos-team.net/downloads.html
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@Crumb
Thanks for the tip.I have installed Morphos already.I just want to see AOS
4.0 run in the Mini.I know about the lack of usb/lan/audio.
Anyone else?
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Well.. I can't help much, but my results are that on my 1.42GHz/32M/4.8.9f1 mini I get corrupted gfx too, but it works with my 1.5GHz/64M/4.9.4f1. I haven't bothered to play around more, just with couple of straight boots from the same CD.
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Well.. I can't help much, but my results are that on my 1.42GHz/32M/4.8.9f1 mini I get corrupted gfx too, but it works with my 1.5GHz/64M/4.9.4f1. I haven't bothered to play around more, just with couple of straight boots from the same CD.
Wait, AOS4+Moana works on your Mac?
I wonder what ties Moana to that exact OF version.
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Wait, AOS4+Moana works on your Mac?
Yes.
I wonder what ties Moana to that exact OF version.
No idea. Or if it really is because of the OF version. I originally thought it would still be the vmem amount, but as versions were brought up here....
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@skurk
Radeon initialization may be slightly different. Anyway, the problem with Moana is not the gfx card, it's just everything else! nobody is going to write drivers for it so IMHO it's just an interesting preview of what could have been
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@skurk
Radeon initialization may be slightly different. Anyway, the problem with Moana is not the gfx card, it's just everything else! nobody is going to write drivers for it so IMHO it's just an interesting preview of what could have been
Sad but true.
And Hyperion not doing OS4 for MacMini shows they don't deserve any claim to Amiga IP either. As clueless as Amiga Inc.
It's a no brainer.....MacMini is dirt cheap and plentiful still today. And if OS4 was released for MacMini PPC the prices would rocket and every broken/stained/dead MacMini in the world would be on ebay within 24 hours of the OS launch date being announced LOL
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The explanation I got was that Hyperion is building up the market, by porting to new motherboards, someone can make the mobo (Acube), someone can sell it (AmigaKit) and someone needs an OS to (Hyperion), so they all make money and a new Amiga market is built.
But to be totally honest, a port to Mac Mini makes the most sense, no?! Just think about the userbase and all kind of awesome programs that could be programmed by the new userbase?
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If you have a Mac Mini and want Amiga, use MorphOS. MorphOS works natively and outperforms OS4. As far as I know, MorphOS can run OS4 apps as well. Hyperion seems a bit flaky to me and I would rather use something I know supports my hardware.
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If you have a Mac Mini and want Amiga, use MorphOS. MorphOS works natively and outperforms OS4. As far as I know, MorphOS can run OS4 apps as well. Hyperion seems a bit flaky to me and I would rather use something I know supports my hardware.
...but MorphOS isn't AmigaOS. I'm not flaming or anything, I'm just saying that when I want a beer, I don't drink a piña colada.
Anyone know if it possible to dump the 4.9.4f1 OF to file?
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I agree skurk. And there are some OS4 apps that just won't run on MorphOS. MorhOS is great and I have a copy on my PegII. It's quite a bit faster than OS4 and visually is more appealing, but I have to keep OS4 around just to run some of my apps. And the OS4Emu for MorphOS works with a very small list of programs, but not all of them.
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And if you buy OS4, that copy is not limited to run on just that one minimac. Which version of OS4 (sam440/peg1/A1) is the one booting on powermacs btw, any of them perhaps? Maybe even OS4.0 for classic? :)
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The problem is Hyperion's attitude is wrong, slow 5 year old CPU tech in 700 quid motherboards is not what any of us here want either.
There is a perfectly acceptable 3.2Ghz triple core PPC motherboard with 512mb of RAM and ATI x1900 GPU sold every minute worldwide for £125 retail. It's called the Xbox 360 motherboard. There is no reason why Hyperion can't set out a standard motherboard powered by said Xenon triple core PPC processor and something like an ATI x1750 GPU and 512mb of shared RAM for a low price. Farm out the production to China. Bingo.
Amiga needs a single specification, a kick-ass specification with astonishing value for money too. If they insist on PPC CPU for OS4 then your answer is right there. Sure it won't be £125 but it will be superior to X1000 and cost a lot less, possibly cheap enough to warrant casual purchase territory.
No point making an OS for hardware that is either too slow/obsolete or overpriced and new that only 7 people will want to buy. Ends in bankruptcy that kind of business model.
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No point making an OS for hardware that is either too slow/obsolete or overpriced and new that only 7 people will want to buy. Ends in bankruptcy that kind of business model.
+1. Outstanding ovation.
Kind regards.
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The explanation I got was that Hyperion is building up the market, by porting to new motherboards, someone can make the mobo (Acube), someone can sell it (AmigaKit) and someone needs an OS to (Hyperion), so they all make money and a new Amiga market is built.
The(ir) problem is that we don't need these OS4 dongles (read os4 outdated-slow-expensive hardware slower) because hardware that is both faster and cheaper exists. They should care about increasing the small userbase instead of trying to sell us things we don't need.
Supporting Mac Mini was possible butthey decided to milk users to sell us something we don't need.
I can understand some people prefer to buy new hardware but then a release for Mac Mini won't cause any harm if people is really interested in this expensive&slow new hardware.
Others may claim that if existing hardware is cheaper users won't buy slower new hardware. The solution is releasing better hardware (at least better than the hardware sold FIVE years ago) instead of forcing users to buy an outdated machine.
Sam440/440EP and others are another attempt to sell us some technology from 5 years ago at prices higher than 5 years ago... and we don't want/need that hardware! we want/need te OS!
Anybody could notice the excitement when Moana was discovered... they would have sold more units of OS4 and those who think sam440 is great could have bought a sam440 still.
It seems Ben Hermans thinks milking users is fine. Hyperion was a small software company and it's software what they should produce and sell us, not hardware.
But to be totally honest, a port to Mac Mini makes the most sense, no?! Just think about the userbase and all kind of awesome programs that could be programmed by the new userbase?
They could have released OS4 for Mac Mini G4, Latest powerbooks/ibooks g4 and G5 machines but instead it seems Ben Hermans and company are more interested in making cash flow to their pockets than in increasing the userbase.
Ben Hermans is destroying AmigaOS milking the small userbase.
Instead of fixing problems caused by hardware like a1/sam440 they should have ported it to x86-64 machines or at least Apple PPC hardware.
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They could have released OS4 for Mac Mini G4, Latest powerbooks/ibooks g4 and G5 machines but instead it seems Ben Hermans and company are more interested in making cash flow to their pockets than in increasing the userbase.
And most likely the plan about cash flow will fail too, and they will end up with less than what they had at the start of this nutty project.
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Piru will argue against this point until death. He believes that because there are tons of cheap, unused MacMinis laying around, that people will be drawn to use them with MorphOS. I guess he hasn't driven by any auto junkyards lately. Tons of unused, obsolete cars just waiting to be adopted and put back on the road.......yeah, right.....
MorphOS will go extinct with that kind of business model. Not even 3rd world countries can be coaxed into using MorphOS even if the hardware and OS was given to them for free. It doesn't offer them a future......or us one for that matter.
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Piru will argue against this point until death. He believes that because there are tons of cheap, unused MacMinis laying around, that people will be drawn to use them with MorphOS. I guess he hasn't driven by any auto junkyards lately. Tons of unused, obsolete cars just waiting to be adopted and put back on the road.......yeah, right.....
MorphOS will go extinct with that kind of business model. Not even 3rd world countries can be coaxed into using MorphOS even if the hardware and OS was given to them for free. It doesn't offer them a future......or us one for that matter.
I don't have a dog in this fight either way, but the "junked cars" analogy is faulty. What Morph-OS guys seem to be saying isn't "There are tons of junked cars in junkyards", they're saying "There are tons of obsolete cars in used car lots that can be converted to run on this experimental fuel we're making".
If your analogy were correct, people seeking to run Morph-OS would have to find partially destroyed or damaged Mac Minis to try and get running again, then use Morph-OS
Further, the second part? I have seen at least one documentary about some African nations (surely third world) that have a burgeoning PC "Junkyard" industry - not for "recycling" as they do in China, but recycling them to bodge together working computers for schools and businesses. Your throw-away P3/1ghz finds it's way to a market in Africa - maybe you tossed it because a couple of slots on the motherboard died, or because the sound went out...well, its components will be put together with another machine and bang: working XP (or Win2000) box. I'm sure if you rolled in to one of those countries with a shipping container full of working - or nonworking! - Mac Minis, there'd be people eager to take them off your hands.
Whether that would lead them to Morph-OS is another question, but the point still stands. Yes, old tech is still in use, particularly in 3rd world countries, and no, the Morph-OS guys aren't telling people to go get "wrecked cars" out of a "junkyard" to try and get working, they're saying "Go buy a ca. 2002 Miata and convert it from petrol to propane." :D
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Double post deleted......
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@B00tDisk
Yeah, I see tons of Africans foaming at the mouth to get their MacMinis and a copy of MorphOS.......
Nobody wants to start out already being obsolete, not even folks from 3rd and 5th world countries. And to say that MorphOS is some sort of experimental fuel that will make a MacMini something special or supercharge it is just a bad joke. A MacMini is at least 5 years out of date and MorphOS won't change that.
So to rephrase my analogy, there are tons of unused and obsolete MacMinis sitting in our closets collecting dust that we're all too lazy to take to the scrap yard and recycle or send off to the unwashed masses. And even if these MacMinis did get into the hands of some 3rd or 5th world waif, they're not going to look for a copy of MorphOS to put on it. They're going to look for OSX.....something that can run some robust applications. And they'll actually be pissed because most 3rd world nations want something that will run one of the Microsoft OSs, not a PPC boat anchor.
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@ferrellsl
Gee... as if anything amiga related wasn't outdated for years already, yes that includes any new hardware being made available. Some people like having something they can use to get their amiga fix now, promises of some far-fetched future targets may not mean so much for people who have experienced most of the post-C= amiga drama.
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@B00tDisk
Yeah, I see tons of Africans foaming at the mouth to get their MacMinis and a copy of MorphOS.......
Uh, did you read the part where I said "I've got no dog in this fight" and "Whether that would lead them to Morph-OS is another question"?
I could give a fig about OS4 or Morph-OS, I only care about Amiga OS in general in the same way I care about GEOS or Windows 3.1 or OS7.5 for Macintosh - as a nostalgia trip.
What I am saying (once again...) is that the large portion of the "third world" that needs computers doesn't really give a damn about whether or not it fits your image of the go go go high-tech lifestyle.
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Piru will argue against this point until death. He believes that because there are tons of cheap, unused MacMinis laying around, that people will be drawn to use them with MorphOS.
No need to argue. MorphOS for Mac mini has been a huge (*) success. Everything we've seen with it has validated our decision.
I guess he hasn't driven by any auto junkyards lately.
I use the public transportation. Sure, it's something like 1000 € / year, but still much much cheaper than owning a car.
Wait, we were talking about computers?
MorphOS will go extinct with that kind of business model.
If you think someone is trying to make a profit here you're grossly misguided.
It still makes much more sense to use existing and easily available, good mac hardware than try to cook up your own. Eventually we will need to look into something else, but for now there's no better alternative.
(*) Huge in terms of the amigoid scale of things.
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What fun.
Me. I will try Morph2.5 this next week. Because it's easy, legal and works NOW!
If Hyperion ever sells a moana product, I'll try that. Otherwise this approach is just too much work.
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@ferrellsl
I wouldnt mind if there was new, inexpensive and powerful hardware available for MorphOS. If you have ideas I am all ears.
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Piru will argue against this point until death. He believes that because there are tons of cheap, unused MacMinis laying around, that people will be drawn to use them with MorphOS. I guess he hasn't driven by any auto junkyards lately. Tons of unused, obsolete cars just waiting to be adopted and put back on the road.......yeah, right.....
MorphOS will go extinct with that kind of business model. Not even 3rd world countries can be coaxed into using MorphOS even if the hardware and OS was given to them for free. It doesn't offer them a future......or us one for that matter.
Following you car analogy: The problem is that OS4 crew is trying to enforce customers to buy "new" Flintmobiles with prehistoric 603 cores instead of using available fast, reliable and comfortable 2nd hand Mercedes. And the problem is that Ben Hermans and company are trying to force us to buy Flintmobiles like they were modern gasoline cars (but just because you like the cool 80s radio included on it)
MorphOS won't go extint because MorphOS coders don't make MorphOS to become rich, they do it because they love it (probably just like Friedens love os4).
In contrast Ben Hermans is only interested in the money and not in the OS or users.
I know several people buying cheap eMacs/MacMinis to run MorphOS but I don't know many people who plans to invest 1800Euros in 5year old technology at prices from 5 years ago.
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Here's why I think the old mac hardware route is a cool way to go. I have countless macs which I all got for free. All sorts of G3, G4 and G5 hardware. Why did I get them free? Because the market value for them dropped and people couldn't be bothered selling them.
I purchased a Morphos license a few days ago. My entry cost was just the license. With out a doubt people will be able to get cheap or free mac hardware. This makes Morphos an interesting options for someone interested in what it does.
To run OS4 I would need to drop an enormous amount of money. Do I still want to? Sure! Will I be able to justify that purchase any time soon? Probably not.
I'm happy playing with Morphos now. This strategy creates an affordable path for folks who want to use Morphos. What could possibly be wrong with that?
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The Mac Mini decision is a good _short term_ strategy. Long term, it's a dead end. Using it MorphOS can grow a user base -- whereas the X1000 will probably go nowhere -- and if MorphOS is wise, they'll use the larger user base to move into newer hardware when they're ready.
Of course, as a strategy, I doubt it will beat AROS, since AROS gets users more powerful, less expensive hardware that will grow with the future. MorphOS' strategy will last only as long as the Mac Minis last.
My two cents.
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MorphOS' strategy will last only as long as the Mac Minis last.
Well not quite as we're not limiting ourselves to Mac mini. We already support eMac aswell, and we're looking at bringing support to some PowerMac G4s and PowerBook G4 next.
All these machines combined will cover any possible needs for HW for a very long time. As I've stated before we're well aware that it will not last forever, though, but until then we have very nice HW to play with.
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@itix
I agree. I bought MorphOS to run on my PegII out of curiosity and because I believed the crap that "others" were spouting on here about how MorphOS would turn your system into a high performance machine. Well, that was a load of crap and I expected more from an OS that cost me more than $200 USD. And until Piru publishes some real sales numbers I'll continue to disbelieve him when he says the move to MacMini was a huge success. He also tried to get me to believe that MorphOS wasn't a "business" venture. That's the typical dodge when someone doesn't want to admit that their "business" isn't being successful. I told him that I'd believe that MorphOS wasn't a business when they decided to stop charging for it. I'd wager that fewer than 300 copies of MorphOS for the MacMini have been sold.
And this crazy belief that MorphOS will supercharge your 5 year old hardware is ridiculous. Why do seemingly intelligent people continue to bring it up. That's like believing that putting high test gasoline into a Model A Ford will turn it into something comparable to modern cars on the road today.
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@itix
I bought MorphOS to run on my PegII out of curiosity and because I believed the crap that "others" were spouting on here about how MorphOS would turn your system into a high performance machine. Well, that was a load of crap and I expected more from an OS that cost me more than $200 USD.
So, what did you expect, and why were you so disappointed, exactly? Also, did you use amigaos before?
And until Piru publishes some real sales numbers I'll continue to disbelieve him when he says the move to MacMini was a huge success. He also tried to get me to believe that MorphOS wasn't a "business" venture. That's the typical dodge when someone doesn't want to admit that their "business" isn't being successful.
If we compare the proportion of Mac sales to Peg1/Peg2/Efika sales, it's definitely not a failure. And this is indeed not a business for us, we all have a real job for that. But whether you believe it or not, we don't really care. :)
And this crazy belief that MorphOS will supercharge your 5 year old hardware is ridiculous. Why do seemingly intelligent people continue to bring it up. That's like believing that putting high test gasoline into a Model A Ford will turn it into something comparable to modern cars on the road today.
Well, try playing a 720p file on OSX or Linux on Mac mini, and you'll see the difference. Same for some emulators like UAE or MAME. MorphOS has much less overhead than OSX and Linux when it comes to graphics, and that shows well with the examples above.
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And until Piru publishes some real sales numbers I'll continue to disbelieve him when he says the move to MacMini was a huge success.
Believe what you will. I can't force you to believe anything. If you don't believe me then you wouldn't believe any numbers I'd be presenting, anyway (and no, I won't be quoting any numbers).
He also tried to get me to believe that MorphOS wasn't a "business" venture.
Again you're free to believe whatever you want. MorphOS isn't a business venture however.
And this crazy belief that MorphOS will supercharge your 5 year old hardware is ridiculous.
Any such claims are silly. There's a limit to any HW performance, which no SW can bypass.
However, funnily the 5 year old HW runs circles around some of the PPC HW that is sold as new, today. The price-tag of these new offerings is just plain ridiculous. It clearly tells us that there is no point in trying to create new PPC HW today.
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@ferrellsl
Gee... as if anything amiga related wasn't outdated for years already, yes that includes any new hardware being made available. Some people like having something they can use to get their amiga fix now, promises of some far-fetched future targets may not mean so much for people who have experienced most of the post-C= amiga drama.
What? Get your Amiga fix now? The X1000 has been vaporware for a long time and will remain so. And MorphOS is great a running old 68K software but try getting it to run OS4 software even with the OS4Emu. It's very hit or miss. If you want an Amiga fix, get a 68K Amiga or an emulator and relive those glory days but don't waste good money on dead-end PPC technology thinking that Amiga will somehow rise from the ashes.
And just because we've had to suffer with outdated hardware already for years doesn't mean we should have to continue doing so. And I'm not impressed by the far-fetched future target of the X1000 either. It's another underpowered, over priced system that might sell about 100 units after it's all said and done. Just another waste of cash for the Amiga fanatics who will believe that the X1000 is bleeding edge technology. AOS and MOS will continue to move into an ever smaller niche using their current business models. It's just simple economics. As their market base shrinks, the price will continue to increase just to cover their development costs. There's no economy of scale.
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AOS and MOS will continue to move into an ever smaller niche using their current business models. It's just simple economics. As their market base shrinks, the price will continue to increase just to cover their development costs. There's no economy of scale.
Amigaoid stuff as a business died mid 90s.
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Believe what you will. I can't force you to believe anything. If you don't believe me then you wouldn't believe any numbers I'd be presenting, anyway (and no, I won't be quoting any numbers).
Again you're free to believe whatever you want. MorphOS isn't a business venture however.
Any such claims are silly. There's a limit to any HW performance, which no SW can bypass.
However, funnily the 5 year old HW runs circles around some of the PPC HW that is sold as new, today. The price-tag of these new offerings is just plain ridiculous. It clearly tells us that there is no point in trying to create new PPC HW today.
You've never posted any numbers so there's nothing to "believe". If MorphOS is such a success, then why not post some numbers? Are you afraid we can't handle the truth? Or are you embarrassed by it? OS developers publish their sales numbers all the time to track their success or failure. Heck, even open source Linux developers report how many people are using a particular distro they develop.
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Well not quite as we're not limiting ourselves to Mac mini. We already support eMac aswell, and we're looking at bringing support to some PowerMac G4s and PowerBook G4 next.
All these machines combined will cover any possible needs for HW for a very long time. As I've stated before we're well aware that it will not last forever, though, but until then we have very nice HW to play with.
Well, I was speaking more metaphorically than I was literally. :) As I've said before, I applaud MorphOS' strategy over Hyperion's, it's the smarter strategy, but it's still ultimately a dead-end. If you want to grow your user base, and grow it fast: x86. Of course, I also realize that you guys are all invested in PPC, so I'm merely pointing out the reality of the situation.
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You've never posted any numbers so there's nothing to "believe". If MorphOS is such a success, then why not post some numbers?
Hey, why not tell us how much money you have in your bank account?
Sounds like MorphOS, not being a business venture, has no reason to spout about how much money they're making or not making, or try to drum up interest based on "oo, look how many copies we sold!" It's obvious people are buying it, though.
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@EDanaII
I agree with you wholeheartedly here. The MorphOS plan is a great holdover until a new strategy can be developed. But Hyperion moving to an obscure, overpriced hardware platform wasn't a good move technically or commercially.
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Hey, why not tell us how much money you have in your bank account?
Sounds like MorphOS, not being a business venture, has no reason to spout about how much money they're making or not making, or try to drum up interest based on "oo, look how many copies we sold!" It's obvious people are buying it, though.
No one is talking bank accounts here or how much money is being made. I'm wanting to know how many copies have been sold. Businesses sell products. MorphOS is being sold, so therefore it's a business. It certainly isn't "donation ware" at $200 USD. Businesses quote sales all the time. Even MS and Apple openly report how many copies of OSX and Windows 7 go out the door. And how do you see that "many" copies of MOS are obviously being sold unless you are on the MorphOS sales team? If you're not on the sales team or part of the MorphOS devs, then you're just spouting crap.
Even Linux developers who give their distros away free of charge post how many downloads and users they have.
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You've never posted any numbers so there's nothing to "believe". If MorphOS is such a success, then why not post some numbers?
I said that Mac mini has been a success. You clearly don't believe me.
As far as I know we've never posted any sales numbers, and I am not going to start posting now.
You are free to believe that there have been 300 sales, or 50 if that makes you feel any better.
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@ferrellsl
Nevermind, can't be bothered with this if you're not going to read (comprehend) the replies you get.
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@Fab
I was disappointed by the lack of compatiblity with OS4 software and the lack of any real office suite or a modern web browser. Multimedia issues also abound such as the lack of DVD player software. I constantly had to swith back to another computer that had all the missing features in MOS and even with a KVM switch this became a real pain in the ars. So eventually the PegII was placed on the shelf where it remains today. That was 2 years ago. These days I can buy a modern netbook for $300. I simply can't justify putting any more money into an OS4 of MOS system. They're always a "work in progress" and woefully behind.
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No one is talking bank accounts here or how much money is being made. I'm wanting to know how many copies have been sold. Businesses sell products. MorphOS is being sold, so therefore it's a business. It certainly isn't "donation ware" at $200 USD. Businesses quote sales all the time. Even MS and Apple openly report how many copies of OSX and Windows 7 go out the door. And how do you see that "many" copies of MOS are obviously being sold unless you are on the MorphOS sales team? If you're not on the sales team or part of the MorphOS devs, then you're just spouting crap.
Even Linux developers who give their distros away free of charge post how many downloads and users they have.
If you're asking how many copies have been sold, you're going to find out exactly how much money has been made (gross, at least.) Whether or not that's what you wanted, that's what would be revealed. Get that? Good.
Businesses quote sales all the time. MorphOS, as has been stated, is not a business.
I never said "many" copies were sold, and I never said that "few" copies were sold, only that people are indeed buying the software. You're unable to comprehend text before you apparently. Give it up.
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Hiding one's success.......how noble.....
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@toe007
You can argue all day that MorphOS isn't a business. And when they stop charging money for MorphOS, then I'll believe MorphOS isn't a business. I've not asked for gross income, total revenues, or any other monetary figures. I've only asked for total copies sold. And how can a non-business have a gross income that you refer to? If they're not a business, they won't have a gross income.
MorphOS isn't donation ware. It's a business that sells a product for a set price. Plain and simple. You need to "give it up" or take some classes in business and economics.....
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@toe007
You can argue all day that MorphOS isn't a business.
Not gonna.
I've not asked for gross income, total revenues, or any other monetary figures. I've only asked for total copies sold.
...which would reveal some of the previous information you've stated you haven't asked for. Sounds like the economics classes are in your future, not mine.
@
And how can a non-business have a gross income that you refer to? If they're not a business, they won't have a gross income.
Hey, I sell stuff at set prices all the time, does that make me a business? No. I just sold a sound card for $125, making $125 my gross income from that sale. My net will be amount I'm left with after PayPal and shipping fees. Guess what, still not a business!
Either way, what you've asked for is apparently more than the MorphOS team cares to provide, which is their prerogative and continuing to ask for it just makes you look like a nosy whiner.
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Hiding one's success.......how noble.....
Yes, I like you too.
Encyclopedia Dramatica: Arguing on the internet (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Arguing_on_the_internet)
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@tone007
MorphOS isn't being sold on eBay like something out of a rummage or yard sale. It's being marketed and sold at a fixed price. No one is bidding on it. Nor is it donation ware. The fact that you and possibly the MorphOS folks don't have a business license when selling products doesn't mean that you're not running a business. Even you are supposed to report the income you make from your eBay sales as income to the IRS in this country. So yes, you're a business even if you don't like to admit it and so is MorphOS.
And as long as people on here continue to believe that MorphOS is such a huge success, I'll continue to say "show me". I believed all the hype about MorphOS before I bought it. Shame on me. Won't happen again. I don't believe it's a success and no one here seems to be able or willing to refute me.
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... lack of compatiblity with OS4 software ... lack of any real office suite or a modern web browser ... the lack of DVD player software ...
Funny... kinda curious who convinced you to go for MorphOS in the first place :) Someone should probably have told you OS4emu is mostly useful for starting silly forum threads...
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So yes, you're a business even if you don't like to admit it and so is MorphOS.
Woohoo, tone007 inc! Let me do a little dance now.
I don't believe it's a success and no one here seems to be able or willing to refute me.
Probably because no one cares what you believe. Would you define success only by how much money it's made (or how many copies it's sold, as you like to put it?) That's sad. I'd call it a success as just about everyone who gives a damn about Amiga today has heard of it, and it's an easy (and only getting easier) to access option. What more can you ask for given anything falling under Amiga these days? Still holding out for the Destroyer of Microsoft?
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Funny... kinda curious who convinced you to go for MorphOS in the first place :) Someone should probably have told you OS4emu is mostly useful for starting silly forum threads...
The same folks on here that keep insisting that MorphOS isn't a business and that it's a success. :-)
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Woohoo, tone007 inc! Let me do a little dance now.
Probably because no one cares what you believe. Would you define success only by how much money it's made (or how many copies it's sold, as you like to put it?) That's sad. I'd call it a success as just about everyone who gives a damn about Amiga today has heard of it, and it's an easy (and only getting easier) to access option. What more can you ask for given anything falling under Amiga these days? Still holding out for the Destroyer of Microsoft?
Your posts keep getting more and more juvenile. Proud of yourself?
Success is relative and is defined by the size of the market and one's market share. So when do I give you your next class in economics?
And simply knowing about a product doesn't mean it's a success. I've heard of Windows ME too but everyone agrees it was a failure, including the developer.
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Your posts keep getting more and more juvenile. Proud of yourself?
I'm just havin' a good time, thanks for asking though.
Success is relative and is defined by the size of the market and one's market share.
The Amiga market is tiny. Sell 10 copies and you're a success! Does this mean AROS can't be a success though, because it's free? What if tons of people only downloaded the trial version of MorphOS, but liked it? Would that make it less successful?
It comes down to this: success, in your eyes, is quite possibly not what success means to the developers. Is their number one priority to make money? If not, their success cannot be made or broken by sales.
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There are various ways to measure success. For me in this particular case it doesn't mean making ton of money. It means making MorphOS available on a cheap and easily available hardware. In this the Mac mini has been a sounding success (EFIKA was great as well, although low in memory unfortunately).
The number of sold licenses and their distribution will remain a undisclosed matter.
I hope this makes my point clear to anyone and I don't need to comment on this further.
Happy weekend everyone!
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The same folks on here that keep insisting that MorphOS isn't a business and that it's a success. :-)
Ah... the comprehension thing again :)
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I'm just havin' a good time, thanks for asking though.
The Amiga market is tiny. Sell 10 copies and you're a success! Does this mean AROS can't be a success though, because it's free? What if tons of people only downloaded the trial version of MorphOS, but liked it? Would that make it less successful?
It comes down to this: success, in your eyes, is quite possibly not what success means to the developers. Is their number one priority to make money? If not, their success cannot be made or broken by sales.
Hey, now we're getting somewhere. Yes, the market IS tiny. So it would be nice if someone would define the size of that market. Not sure if that's even possible anymore. And you're right about AROS. Same goes for Linux. I have no doubt that the developers of OS4, AROS, and MOS all believe that they've been successful. And from their perspective, I would agree. But from the perspective of a businessman and an investor, I'd like to see some numbers. And as someone who has bought and paid for my copy of MOS, I consider myself an investor, albeit a very limited one. I'm not asking for anything above and beyond what any investor would ask who has invested in a product. Nobody wants to buy a dying product or make a bad investment.
So yes, total sales might not be representative of success, especially now that MacMinis are a factor and the MorphOS team has no real idea of how many are out there and being considered for MOS. But even a percentage of market share would be nice. It would be nice it the the MorphOS team could say definitively that MOS runs on 40% of all Amigoid PPC systems out there vs OS4.....that's just an example of course. That way they've not divulged real sales figures or sensitive financial info.
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Ah... the comprehension thing again :)
For someone who is too tired to engage anymore, you're sure quick with the snide one-liners.
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There are various ways to measure success. For me in this particular case it doesn't mean making ton of money. It means making MorphOS available on a cheap and easily available hardware. In this the Mac mini has been a sounding success (EFIKA was great as well, although low in memory unfortunately).
The number of sold licenses and their distribution will remain a undisclosed matter.
I hope this makes my point clear to anyone and I don't need to comment on this further.
Happy weekend everyone!
I don't usually agree with you Piru, but I am in 100% agreement here. X1000 is all very nice but realistically MorphOS in a Mac Mini is a much more viable solution to most enthusiasts.
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@ferrellsl
I try.
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Success is relative and is defined by the size of the market and one's market share. So when do I give you your next class in economics?
That's just one way to define success. Success, the word, without context, could refer to completion of a difficult task, or a sense of accomplishment, or any of a number of other things.
NetBSD has never sold a copy. Does that mean it's not successful? You might say yes, but considering how well we're fulfilling our primary objective (to make available a highly portable OS), I think it's damned successful. I feel a sense of accomplishment whenever people use code I've helped improve. So maybe the guys working on MorphOS feel successful - it's not up to you to decide whether they do. It's up to you to have your own opinion, though.
Another example - if someone who's making $50k a year and is living very comfortably and not spending more than he/she makes feels successful, yet another person who's making $100k a year is spending more than he/she makes, is the first person more or less successful than the second?
The point is you can't just go around making blanket statements while assuming that everyone is just going to use your definitions for everything.
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@itix
I agree. I bought MorphOS to run on my PegII out of curiosity and because I believed the crap that "others" were spouting on here about how MorphOS would turn your system into a high performance machine. Well, that was a load of crap and I expected more from an OS that cost me more than $200 USD.
You had a chance to try MorphOS for free before purchasing.
Shame that you didnt like it. It is very good OS.
And until Piru publishes some real sales numbers I'll continue to disbelieve him when he says the move to MacMini was a huge success.
In Amiga scale it is. No new hardware would generate so much sales. It leaves out users who only want new hardware but you can not please everyone. Choose your target and stick on it. But it is good that we have choices, isnt it? AROS, MorphOS and OS4 fill different needs. And of course the good old original AmigaOS 3.1 on emulators and perhaps Minimig.
Before I continue I should mention I am MorphOS developer and biased.
He also tried to get me to believe that MorphOS wasn't a "business" venture. That's the typical dodge when someone doesn't want to admit that their "business" isn't being successful. I told him that I'd believe that MorphOS wasn't a business when they decided to stop charging for it. I'd wager that fewer than 300 copies of MorphOS for the MacMini have been sold.
What is "successful" business in your books? It is successful as in it generates more income than there are expenses. It is not successful as in it would bring Amiga out of niche. Amiga is small and stays small.
Maybe you mean MorphOS as in business would be declining or does so in the future. Well, does it matter? Do you really expect commercial breakthrough? Do you think successful Amiga business exists?
I wouldnt mind if there was new, inexpensive and powerful hardware available for MorphOS. If you have ideas I am all ears.
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@tone007
The fact that you and possibly the MorphOS folks don't have a business license when selling products doesn't mean that you're not running a business.
Payments are due to "Ralph Schmidt Softwareentwickling" (maybe there even was an GmbH added to it) so yes technically it's a buisness. That doesn't mean it's a buisness in the common sense (read someone making a living of it).
Number of licences sold aren't a really well kept secret (never were), but that not the point.
In order to make a product commercially viable that involves as many people as MorphOS (or OS4) even if they are working only parttime one would have to cash in atleast 500000Euro ...... not just once, but for every year the projects runs.
There hasn't been that kind of money in the Amiga-market eversince C= went down, and therefore it doesn't really matter wether they port MorphOS to old Macs,x86,ARM or Z80 as it would all be just the same hobby-project with minimal financial gains as it is right now.
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@itix
I never said MorphOS was a bad OS. I said I was disappointed by all the hype generated by several people on this board who acted like it would supercharge 5 yr old technology. The disappointments are in the lack of robust, useful software to run on MOS. Useful being a decent office suite and a mature browser that supported modern standards. I bought my PegII and MorphOS nearly 3 years ago and that's an eternity to wait for decent software. I also paid $700 for the PegII and another $200+ for MorphOS. I can buy one heck of a modern workhorse computer for that kind of money. Yes, OWB is out there now and is becoming more mature all the time but I shouldn't have to pay nearly $1000 and wait nearly 3 years to surf the web with my system. That's just ridiculous.
And if you look at my earlier post from 4:29 today, you'll notice that I'm in violent agreement about the size of the Amiga market and what constitutes success there. LOL
As for new, inexpensive and powerful hardware for future Amiga OSs including MorphOS, I've always thought that x86 is the future, like it or not. ARM isn't an option in my opinion. It's just another obscure, underpowered dead-end. I like AROS and think it's the future of Amiga-like OSs. The x1000 will die a slow death if it ever reaches market. And the guys from MorphOS like to keep things shrouded in mystery but hint that ARM is likely to be the next CPU running MOS. I hope not.
@johnklos
See my post for 4:29 today. We're in agreement about what constitutes success in the Amiga market place.
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@itix
ARM isn't an option in my opinion. It's just another obscure, underpowered dead-end.
100 million sold iOS devices would disagree with you.
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The disappointments are in the lack of robust, useful software to run on MOS. Useful being a decent office suite and a mature browser that supported modern standards. I bought my PegII and MorphOS nearly 3 years ago and that's an eternity to wait for decent software.
I can certainly accept that statement.
I also paid $700 for the PegII and another $200+ for MorphOS. I can buy one heck of a modern workhorse computer for that kind of money. Yes, OWB is out there now and is becoming more mature all the time but I shouldn't have to pay nearly $1000 and wait nearly 3 years to surf the web with my system. That's just ridiculous.
There indeed is problem with custom hardware: once you buy one you are stuck with it.
As for new, inexpensive and powerful hardware for future Amiga OSs including MorphOS, I've always thought that x86 is the future, like it or not. ARM isn't an option in my opinion. It's just another obscure, underpowered dead-end. I like AROS and think it's the future of Amiga-like OSs. The x1000 will die a slow death if it ever reaches market. And the guys from MorphOS like to keep things shrouded in mystery but hint that ARM is likely to be the next CPU running MOS. I hope not.
Now we are talking. There is no solution for PPC which could fill all three requirements. x86 could be an option but removes backwards compatibility. ARM is only another obscure custom hardware from user POV.
I am not worried if Amiga and/or MorphOS dies. We all die some day.
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@ferrellsl
"I bought my PegII and MorphOS nearly 3 years ago and that's an eternity to wait for decent software. I also paid $700 for the PegII and another $200+ for MorphOS. I can buy one heck of a modern workhorse computer for that kind of money"
Well, you should have. I mean, who in their sane minds would fork out that money expecting something that could compete with whatever you seek, decent software wise. You seem to blame the platform for not getting you the sw you need, while afaik noone never promised or guaranteed you such thing.
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As for new, inexpensive and powerful hardware for future Amiga OSs including MorphOS, I've always thought that x86 is the future, like it or not. ARM isn't an option in my opinion. It's just another obscure, underpowered dead-end. I like AROS and think it's the future of Amiga-like OSs. The x1000 will die a slow death if it ever reaches market. And the guys from MorphOS like to keep things shrouded in mystery but hint that ARM is likely to be the next CPU running MOS. I hope not.
x86-64 is an option as far as availability goes yes I agree, but not from a value for money point of view. You can't build an i7 or i9 rig cheaper than other companies. Have you checked the prices of i7 CPUs? The CPU alone costs more than an entire PS3 Bluray player let alone a 360 Arcade console. A company who is intelligent will find alternatives and save themselves the effort of transferring OS code between little endian and big endian CPUs, not a trivial task at all. IBM's Xenon PPC 3 core CPU is the modern day 68000 of the modern age to Intel's 286.
If AEON missed a trick by not copying an extremely cheap and powerful solution four times cheaper mhz per mhz using existing and readily available Xenon PPC 3 core CPU inside Xbox 360 that's their fault and nobody elses. That thing is as powerful as a high to mid range Intel i7 monster rig of equal performance. And it is PPC so Hyperion can carry on coding PPC too.
It's not that expensive to design a motherboard around ATI 1900/3.2Ghz GPU/512mb DDR3 700mhz memory is it? Certainly better than pissing in the wind building the esoteric overpriced x1000 that will be dead in 12 months....which probably cost more to develop.
Now we are talking. There is no solution for PPC which could fill all three requirements. x86 could be an option but removes backwards compatibility. ARM is only another obscure custom hardware from user POV.
I am not worried if Amiga and/or MorphOS dies. We all die some day.
Erm I beg to differ, a 3.2Ghz Triple core PowerPC Xenon CPU that goes into the $200 Xbox 360 motherboard is the perfect processor for Amiga OS4 hardware if they refuse to migrate to x86 and stick to a PPC core.
And your comment about not being worried if Amiga died....an allied soldier fighting in WW2 may not be worried about dying but it was his duty to destroy the axis of evil BEFORE he died ;)
Well, you should have. I mean, who in their sane minds would fork out that money expecting something that could compete with whatever you seek, decent software wise. You seem to blame the platform for not getting you the sw you need, while afaik noone never promised or guaranteed you such thing.
Hmm...Microsoft Windows....Microsoft Internet Explorer.....Microsoft Office....do you see a pattern here? ;)
He is quite right to be annoyed that in the space of 36 months the persons receiving three times the cost of a Windows XP licence have done nothing to address a basic requirement...a decent modern browser. Bit ridiculous in 2010. Commodore should have been working on a browser in 1994!
Why the hell is it that any company with a key role to play in the world of Amiga IP/ownership is utterly utterly clueless and stupid and we would be better off if they just didn't bother?
If an engineer from the x1000 team wants to come and explain why they didn't take apart an xbox360 motherboard to create a basic Xenon/X1900/DDR3 BUS similar design would be very enlightening. Other companies do it all the time, buy a market leading price/performance product and reverse engineer it on a basic level to improve their own products price/performance level.
(not saying you need to reverse engineer a compatible 360 motherboard, just use the same 3 basic components of Xenon/ATI/DDR3 memory)
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@ferrellsl
"I bought my PegII and MorphOS nearly 3 years ago and that's an eternity to wait for decent software. I also paid $700 for the PegII and another $200+ for MorphOS. I can buy one heck of a modern workhorse computer for that kind of money"
Well, you should have. I mean, who in their sane minds would fork out that money expecting something that could compete with whatever you seek, decent software wise. You seem to blame the platform for not getting you the sw you need, while afaik noone never promised or guaranteed you such thing.
Well, based on your logic people only buy MorphOS to look at the desktop since there's no decent software to use. I had hoped that the MOS team would actually develop or port some decent apps to MOS, but in 3 years it hasn't happened and I'm certain it'll be the same in 3 more years. I wasn't looking for a system to compete with anything. I was looking for s system that was useful. I'm still waiting.
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@itix
"Now we are talking. There is no solution for PPC which could fill all three requirements. x86 could be an option but removes backwards compatibility. ARM is only another obscure custom hardware from user POV."
Well, UAE could always be integrated into the OS just like it's been done in AROS. That would maintain backwards compatibility. And at some point you have to cut backward compatibility loose. Apple did it with OSX and even MS has ditched backward compatibility to a large degree. But with very little new Amiga s/w development going on, you DO have a point in regards to backward compatibility.
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100 million sold iOS devices would disagree with you.
An I bet there are less than 3 people on this board who can even name a device with an ARM CPU installed unless you're talking iPhone.....so yes, it obscure. I probably have one embedded in my alarm clock or my calculator.
In my opinion, for AOS to survive, Hyperion needs to get out of the hardware business and focus on OS development for whatever hardware the market will support. And for MOS to survive, the MOS dev team needs to ditch PPC and port the OS to something that at least is currently still under production.
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....
In my opinion, for AOS to survive, Hyperion needs to get out of the hardware business and focus on OS development for whatever hardware the market will support. And for MOS to survive, the MOS dev team needs to ditch PPC and port the OS to something that at least is currently still under production.
Tend to agree with that statement, in principle. But if you embrace truly popular hardware then you are stuck with all the issues of disparate addon hardware and associated drivers that can make a good OS feel unreliable.
I think the Microsoft principle of driver certification has merit. But IMO MS tries to keep most of the people happy most of the time, which would be too big a bite for a company like Hyperion: Choosing select quality providers is the key, so a Hybrid of what they are trying to do now on more popular but select hardware would see more positive results. IMO.
BTW: Aren't there distributions of Linux, BSD and good ole Symbian(Hand held I know) for ARM.?
Gertsy
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THe trouble is that it's a small market, the leftover Mac Minis probably could saturate it for our lifetime.
(http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/302/avatarco6.gif)
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Well, based on your logic people only buy MorphOS to look at the desktop since there's no decent software to use. I had hoped that the MOS team would actually develop or port some decent apps to MOS, but in 3 years it hasn't happened and I'm certain it'll be the same in 3 more years. I wasn't looking for a system to compete with anything. I was looking for s system that was useful. I'm still waiting.
I just love how you discard all the programs that have been developed or ported for MorphOS. Just in case you wouldn't know, MPlayer is a capable DVD player (and it has a builtin GUI, before you bring that kind of argument), and i want to believe OWB isn't totally useless, and it even does things FireFox can't yet (like playing HTML5 video on youtube, for instance).
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@itix
I'll continue to disbelieve him when he says the move to MacMini was a huge success.
Well, I'll put it this way. I am cheap. I have two mortgages, two kids with a third on the way. My wife stays home with the kids. And *I* liked the demo well enough to buy it for my G4 Mini. I'd say it was a success if they were able to get me to open my wallet. :)
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Well, based on your logic people only buy MorphOS to look at the desktop since there's no decent software to use. I had hoped that the MOS team would actually develop or port some decent apps to MOS, but in 3 years it hasn't happened and I'm certain it'll be the same in 3 more years. I wasn't looking for a system to compete with anything. I was looking for s system that was useful. I'm still waiting.
Define decent software. Decent seems relative to me. MorphOS does what I need it to do. Web, email, I can SSH to my server, I can remote desktop to Windows. Whoa, no PC games? Whoops.. I have 1000s of old Amiga games to enjoy and if I need something modern I have a PS3. I am not a "gamer" so that aspect is more or less moot. MorphOS is completely usable on a day to day basis.
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An I bet there are less than 3 people on this board who can even name a device with an ARM CPU installed unless you're talking iPhone....
Wait, you're kidding, right? 90% people on this forum are technoids and you think they don't know what's powering their phones? And not just iPhone, my good old Mpx200 is also ARM based. Other than that - my NDS, PPC Loox, N800. I would still prefer a move to x86, but you can't deny ARM is used in virtually everything and is therefore far from obscurity.
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Well MorphOS team I just want to say thanks.
I havent bougth the your OS yet. But I'm goingto when I buy a new macmini as a media senter.
It's good to have a hobby tatt you can make some money on. But I don't belive any of the compenys will get riche makeing Amiga OSes. But some things we do becose we like it:)
I genreal it's a good thing for the Amiga developers that it's old. For the userbase is "old" to. And yes we have wifes, kids, house loans.... But we do have money to use on hobbys to.
Yes, it cost money but my boat cost more in a year.
Happy morning to everbody. I was up 05.30 today. My littel girl did not wont to sleep any more..... So been reading abit.
Espen
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Well, based on your logic people only buy MorphOS to look at the desktop since there's no decent software to use. I had hoped that the MOS team would actually develop or port some decent apps to MOS, but in 3 years it hasn't happened and I'm certain it'll be the same in 3 more years. I wasn't looking for a system to compete with anything. I was looking for s system that was useful. I'm still waiting.
I think most of the people has bought (and will buy) MorphOS because it runs their beloved Amiga programs on more modern and faster system than their old aging Amigas. And it does that well. As a bonus there's also many new programs or program versions. You can watch movies and browse web etc much better than on AmigaOS 3.x system. With both compatibility with modern systems and speedwise.
For that majority MorphOS is very useful and fills their needs better than anything else before. For me MorphOS has served all my needs to upgrade from classic Amiga systems and I can use it as my main system in daily use. With classic Amiga it would be pretty difficult nowadays anymore. But then there are people with very different expectations, habits and needs, and of course that can cause disappointments, if you aren't fully aware what you're getting.
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But I'm goingto when I buy a new macmini as a media senter.
Hm, using a G4 mini as media center isn't exactly optimal. You should consider something more suitable for that, leaving the G4 mini to do MorphOS fulltime ;)
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@ Apex
Without Bill and Amiga Inc, we wouldnt even have AOS4, so your point is complete b0ll0cks
Hi,
@JJ,
I agree totally.
Now that Amiga Inc. is gone lets give Bill some credit for something.
smerf
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x86-64 is an option as far as availability goes yes I agree, but not from a value for money point of view..
Really? My Core 2 Quad Q9450, with 12MB of cache and running at 2.66GHz was about 200 quid when it was brand spanking new. I'd say it has proven itself to be pretty damn good value for money.
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Really? My Core 2 Quad Q9450, with 12MB of cache and running at 2.66GHz was about 200 quid when it was brand spanking new. I'd say it has proven itself to be pretty damn good value for money.
Hi,
@Karlos,
What do you know about computers? Didn't you just buy that system to upgrade from a C64.
and
Man, how long did it take you to catch 200 squid?
smerf
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Hm, using a G4 mini as media center isn't exactly optimal.
Really? Why not?
I'm interested, because I've been using my 1.25GHz G4 Mini as a htpc/media center/torrent slave for almost two years straight.
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Sounds like smerf has been into the good alfalfa again!
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I do not want a macentosh!!
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I had hoped that the MOS team would actually develop or port some decent apps to MOS, but in 3 years it hasn't happened and I'm certain it'll be the same in 3 more years.
The MorphOS team does only MorphOS. Developers of MorphOS have released new software in these three years, Fab's OWB being perhaps most notable port/development.
There is also (few) new software coming with MorphOS. Sketch (painting program) and RemoteShell (SSH) were added in 2.0. No office suite, tho, but MorphOS is not only bunch of libs and devs.
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I do not want a macentosh!!
Then.. sigh.. then don't get one. Sheesh...
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Then.. sigh.. then don't get one. Sheesh...
You hypocrite.
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You hypocrite.
Take a chill pill and come back tomorrow.
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Or stick around and curse some more, it's cute!
The lovely little "Banned" under your login would be even cuter.
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Take a chill pill and come back tomorrow.
A chill pill?! macintosh does not belong to the Amiga, you know that. Apple and Microsift is a box of garbage.:afro:
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A chill pill?! macintosh does not belong to the Amiga, you know that. Apple and Microsift is a box of garbage.:afro:
Yeah! PowerPC and x86 have nothing to do with a-meee-gas! bring us the real 68060 a-mee-gas! ;-P
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Hm, using a G4 mini as media center isn't exactly optimal. You should consider something more suitable for that, leaving the G4 mini to do MorphOS fulltime ;)
True, but I must first win the argument whit the wife :swords. New carseat and stuff first
Espen
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Define decent software. Decent seems relative to me. MorphOS does what I need it to do. Web, email, I can SSH to my server, I can remote desktop to Windows. Whoa, no PC games? Whoops.. I have 1000s of old Amiga games to enjoy and if I need something modern I have a PS3. I am not a "gamer" so that aspect is more or less moot. MorphOS is completely usable on a day to day basis.
+1
P.S. Congrats on #3 on the way Gary. More sleepless nights on the way, but there is nothing like kids to make life worth living.
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Yeah! PowerPC and x86 have nothing to do with a-meee-gas! bring us the real 68060 a-mee-gas! ;-P
I said nothing about the PowerPC. I have had a PPC connected to my Amiga1200 For twelve years now, I have a 68060 too of course.
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Wait, you're kidding, right? 90% people on this forum are technoids and you think they don't know what's powering their phones? And not just iPhone, my good old Mpx200 is also ARM based. Other than that - my NDS, PPC Loox, N800. I would still prefer a move to x86, but you can't deny ARM is used in virtually everything and is therefore far from obscurity.
3DO and Gameboy Advance as well as the cutting edge 80s desktop machine the Acorn Archimedes. Now where's my cake :)
Seriously, ARM is not any better than the kind of things on SAM440. It's a waste of time converting OS4 to ARM which is no small task. The Xbox 360 CPU Xenon (triple core PPC @ 3.2ghz) is a better option to tweak OS4 to run on, and that is a seriously powerful CPU butting heads with the i7 even today as a geometry setup engine.
Really? My Core 2 Quad Q9450, with 12MB of cache and running at 2.66GHz was about 200 quid when it was brand spanking new. I'd say it has proven itself to be pretty damn good value for money.
I think you misunderstood me, what I mean is if you are making a cheap AND powerful machine from CPUs currently available there isn't a single CPU that comes close to the Xbox 360's Xenon CPU that's all. If you want i7 performance using x86 you need to buy the same components as every other PC manufacturer. You can build like for like x86-64 machines as Dell or HP etc but you will never undercut them. But as OS4 is already a PPC OS then why ignore the Xenon CPU and spend years porting big endian/little endian OS/CPU?
All pie in the sky though, someone has to build a motherboard for an IBM Xenon and put some DDR3 memory and an ATI x1900 class GPU.... ;)