Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Everblue on June 01, 2008, 07:09:44 PM
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What do you think of this:
http://www.acube-systems.biz/eng/news.php?id=29
FlexATX Form Factor (215 x 170 mm)
CPU SoC AMCC 440ep - 667 Mhz
DDR DIMM 100 slot, max 512 MB (or in alternative 512 MB DDR soldered onboard)
USB 2.0 OHCI/EHCI NXP PCI controller
Audio Cirrus Logic CS4281 and Realtek ALC655 Codec
Silicon Image 4 Serial ATA ports
Pericom 8150B PCI Bridge
PCI Slots - 1x 32 bits, 66 Mhz - 2x 32 bits, 33 Mhz
mini PCI Slot - 32 bits, 33 Mhz (optional)
2 integrated Ethernet 10/100 ports
FPGA Lattice XP with 80 pin I/O expansion connector
ZigBee module (optional)
RTC with backup battery
UBoot
Availability: August 2008
Price: tba
Its a new version of the SAM PPC board - and I have read a post by Acube on an Italian forum that the price will be "a very nice surprise".
Also, I wonder, what are the chances for Amiga OS 4.0 coming out for it!
:-D
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A bigger "Nice Suprise" would be OS4 or MorphOS running on it otherwise I'm not even sure what the point of this board is or why it relevent to these forums?
If I wanted Linux PPC I would buy an old 500mhz G4 Mac for $100 off of craigslist.
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Well yes of course, if its just a 'linux board' no one would care.
This is being made by ACube Systems, and OS4 *IS* marketed by ACube, so its "easy" to see a connection between them :)
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Sadly though it's even easier to see that Acube will never get the needed license from AInc for OS4.
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I actually feel bad for Acube. they have all this OS4 ready hardware for us but they cant put it out beacuse of an idiotic lawsuit.
I would buy one right now if it came with OS4.
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What if they released through unofficial ways an installer that puts OS4 on a Sam machine?
Oh well, just wishful thinking :(
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Also, I wonder, what are the chances for Amiga OS 4.0 coming out for it!
I'd say slim to none, I don't think AI DE is going to lose the law suits. Now seeing AROS on the SAM440 Flex, that's a real possibility (http://www.acube-systems.biz/common/aros.divx).
Dammy
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no mention of Video adaptor ? I presume a Voodoo or Radeon in a PCI slot then...
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Yeah its not on board... but I was reading somewhere an AGP card can be used with some adapter.
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AGP to PCI adapters do exist but wouldn't it be easier, cheaper and more reliable to use a PCI card.
PowerColor do a PCI version of their Radeon 2400 so you're not limited to old technology either.
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Looks very interesting. Especially if the price is right. The mini-ITX version is a bit too expensive, I think, though I'd promised myself one if I found a job for the summer...
I'm actually interested in this regardless of, if I could put FreeBSD on it I'd still find a use for it, though I suspect I'm a minority of one on that count. I like the power consumption, and I like the fact that it's not an 8086-derivative (for old time's sake).
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niklasni1 wrote:
Looks very interesting. Especially if the price is right.
I'm actually interested in this regardless, if I could put FreeBSD on it I'd still find a use for it.
What would be the right price?
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It just another Linux-board for me. You can't run AmigaOS 4.0, not even MorphOS 1.4.5 (not 2.0), or even AROS. So what this board has to do with Amiga? :-? :-?
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You know, I'm not sure... but the mini-ITX version is just over 600 euros including VAT and shipping... and that's just the MB. I'd hope something like 400 euros (just enough to put it in the "less than a Mac Mini"-bracket) but I don't know if that's realistic.
I'll probably end up getting either this or a NatAmi dev board if I find the money, though..
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Everblue wrote:
Yeah its not on board... but I was reading somewhere an AGP card can be used with some adapter.
I was wondering about that since I've had this 9200 radeon AGP graphics board sitting un used debating if I should hold out or sell. Never heard of an adapter though
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either way too early to speculate since it's no due out any time soon.
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@zyphoid
(http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/akiba/hotline/20020601/image/nap7.jpg)
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niklasni1 wrote:
You know, I'm not sure... but the mini-ITX version is just over 600 euros including VAT and shipping... and that's just the MB.
I'm damn certain that I could build you a PC using Amithlon for half that and still give you performance far and above what the SAM (a nice concept though it is) could possibly hope to offer.
Hell, I'd lay good odds to my EeePC, were I to install Amithlon on it would outperform it.
I had forgotten just how much I used to spend on the Amiga... Seems things have only gotten worse in my absence :-o :-o :-o
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Someone said you cannot even use Aros on Sam, well you can, its just been ported for it. Even though to be honest, I'm only interested in it, if a real Amiga OS (4) comes out for it :)
I hope that they have something up their sleeves anyway!
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I'm damn certain that I could build you a PC using Amithlon for half that and still give you performance far and above what the SAM (a nice concept though it is) could possibly hope to offer.
If I was interested in 'performance' I could build such a thing myself (or pick up one for free from somebody who's bought a newer one and thinks two years old is 'obsolete') - but as Hakim Bey said it, our sole criterion for judging a weapon or tool is its beauty...
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I'd say slim to none, I don't think AI DE is going to lose the law suits. Now seeing AROS on the SAM440 Flex, that's a real possibility.
I would rather go for a cheap x86 box for AROS than anything else.
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@ Everblue
Yes, you're right. The bounty is finished (Port AROS to SAM). :-D
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DJBase wrote:
I'd say slim to none, I don't think AI DE is going to lose the law suits. Now seeing AROS on the SAM440 Flex, that's a real possibility.
I would rather go for a cheap x86 box for AROS than anything else.
Yes of course. The only real reason to get a SAM would be Amiga OS 4.
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niklasni1 wrote:
If I was interested in 'performance' I could build such a thing myself (or pick up one for free from somebody who's bought a newer one and thinks two years old is 'obsolete') - but as Hakim Bey said it, our sole criterion for judging a weapon or tool is its beauty...
Then Hakim Bey is a fool. Sorry, but paying $600 for a machine with less grunt then my EeePC, that will not run AmigaOS in any shape or form (not even the option of Amithlon) means it is a very pretty paperweight, if you're buying it to run AROS, well again, why blow all that cash when an EeePC could do a much better job, hell, there are even desktop variants coming out soon that are even cheaper.
The Amiga was pretty, but it was powerful and capable first in its day.The SAM, whilst it is arguably pretty, is neither powerful nor capable in any sense of the word. If it could run OS4 then maybe you'd have an argument, but thanks to the retards at A.inc, that is never likely to happen. Which I have to say in all honesty, I am disappointed with.
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I'm sure that ACube would love to sell Amiga OS4 for SAM440 EP Flex, and/or the original. However, the inclusion of an optional ZigBee module (and the FPGA) suggests that they are responding to requirements from industrial customers. ZigBee is of zero interest to desktop users, but of great interest to robotics researchers and industry.
It looks like they're managing to do what Eyetech tried but failed to do with the A1; their primary business is with industrial customers, so they don't rely on Amiga related sales for survival.
Where does this leave us? Exactly where we were before. As long as they don't have a license for OS4, they don't have a product that I'm interested in. To be honest, I was more interested in their Moana project than SAM.
Hans
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600 euros. I think that's about 1000 US dollars. I'm also under the impression that it's made at least partially in Italy which for a whole host of political reasons I'm not going to get into here is something that I do want to pay extra for.
My point is, I'm not just a OS geek (I actually have very little interest in running AOS4) or a nostalgia junkie who wants to keep playing Cannon Fodder. I'm a computer geek. I collect weird computers, many of which I don't really use for anything remotely productive except compile four line C apps to look at the machine code or just expanding them as far as they'll go.
I want an interesting computer, something alternative and fun - that's really what I mean by 'beauty' in this context.
The PowerPC CPU, the power consumption combined with the PCI slots (show me a <10W PC system with three pci slots) and the FPGA are all very much in line with my idea of a perfect computer, even if the performance is limited. I find it interesting and I want to see what I can make with it.
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It costs €489, not €600 - just for the record :)
And the new version is supposed to be cheaper.
Needless to say, without OS4 its still useless to most of us :(
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@Everblue
Ah, you personally pick the board and somehow evade taxes?
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Oh....
Oops :-D
But wait - I do have a VAT number.
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@Hans
It looks like they're managing to do what Eyetech tried but failed to do
I don't read any signs of *success* out of the publicly available info, but at least it looks like they are *trying*, which is always a good sign to see at fresh entrepreneurs! :-)
their primary business is with industrial customers, so they don't rely on Amiga related sales for survival.
That leads to the follow up question whether there really are any of these mysterious and rather vague "industrial customers"? In true volume, enough to "rely on for survival"? And why they would buy this product rather than something else?
I must say I think this product is a bit better positioned than the previous one (which to a greater degree than this one was a full *desktop* when it came to on board features, with a high price as a result, albeit *lacking* the desktop performance).
GFX is now optional which I think is a good thing (especially if your customers are primarily "industrial"), while the motherboard is physically bigger and less complex (should have fewer layers, right?), meaning the base configuration should be *a lot* cheaper. At the same time it seems to be more flexible/expandable, which should increase the amount of possible "industrial customers".
However I still strongly question the FPGA. Why is it still there? I wonder if that has *ever* been used by *a single one* of acube's customers? And for what, exactly? I'm pretty convinced that it only adds cost and it won't ever be used by 99%+ of the customers, it being there may even prevent sales (due to the higher cost), so I think they should have made the FPGA *optional* by putting it on a PCI card (especially since the motherboard now has more than one slot) or giving the customers a possibility to simply "opt out" on it altogether like you can with the ZigBee module.
I also think they should have used a different CPU! I can't understand why they are so focused on that poor, old AMCC CPU?
If low power, low performance CPU's are in acube's focus (which seems to be the case), then my favorite would be the Freescale MPC8377E (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC8377E). That would bring about the same performance, while bringing dual Gigabit Ethernets instead of the current 10/100 ones, it would bring PCI-Express (2 x1 or 1 x2, I would have gone for 2 x1) on top of the 32 bit 66MHz "standard" PCI, *eliminating* the need for the PCI bridge (thus reducing board complexity and overall BOM cost even more), *and* it would bring 2x SATA 2.0 controllers, *eliminating* the need for an external controller chip for this (thus reducing board complexity and overall BOM cost even more)! Cheaper, simpler, better connectivity and expandability!
Or the (for *many* reasons) *very* interesting MPC5121e (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC5121e&tab=In-Depth_Tab), which is a multicore SoC CPU that includes a 400MHz e300 controller, a GFX controller (up to 1280x720), a 3D GPU controller to go with that, and a 200 MHz AXE controller, which is a fully programmable 32-bit RISC core for real-time acceleration tasks (for example audio). It has USB2 and one 10/100 Ethernet controller. It has one PATA and one SATA. IMHO, it's a marvelous little thing, a one-chip solution with a 32-bit PCI interface for further feature expansions!
If even more power would be requested, then I would have suggested the Freescale MPC8544E (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC8544E) CPU instead. It's based on a full e500 core (the sequal to the "G3", and it's much more powerful than both the e300 and AMCC440) at up to 1.067GHz. It would bring a lot more computing power and ahelluvalot better expandability through PCI-Express, although it would require an external disc controller chip, USB controller, etc, or perhaps preferably a *southbridge* with a PCI-Express interface instead.
Or why not an *even more* powerful and expandable e500 CPU, like the MPC8548E (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC8548E)? This one coupled with a (for instance) AMD SB750 southbridge would give a two-chip(!) motherboard, offering traditional desktop specs:
- One 1.5GHz(!) e500 core, with 512KB L2-cache
- One PCI-Express x16 slot (with 8 lanes actually wired) for *modern* graphics cards
- Two 32-bit PCI slots
- Four(!) Gigabit Ethernets directly from the CPU chip
- Six(!) SATA 3.0 Gbit/s, with eSATA and RAID 0, 1, 5(!), 0+1
- Twelve(!) USB 2.0 ports, and 2x USB 1.1
- HD Audio
- DASH 1.0 support
Isn't this the wet dream of all "NG Amigans"?
No? It doesn't have Altivec you say?
Hmm, then simply replace the e500 CPU's above with a single core MPC8641 (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC8641D) (or the upcoming low power, low cost MPC8640 (http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=10840)) and you will have pretty much the same specs but with an e600 core instead! Or perhaps the MPC8610 (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC8610) which is using the very latest e600 @ 1.33GHz and fast controllers such as DDR2/1066 and a very capable GFX controller on the chip, which will reduce the total cost of a system where GFX is needed!
(Really performance-savvy *industrial* customers (or anyone using an OS not bound to be single core only) might be interested in the dual core versions of the 8641D/8640D CPU's, or the dual core e500 CPU MPC8572E (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC8572E) instead!)
Where does this leave us? Exactly where we were before. As long as they don't have a license for OS4, they don't have a product that I'm interested in.
Had they got a MorphOS license, then at least I *might* have been interested! :-)
To be honest, I was more interested in their Moana project than SAM.
OS4 for second hand Mac's won't happen any more than OS4 for SAM will.
And it won't happen for a MPC8610+SB750 machine either, but surely you agree that this would have been the most interesting option of them all? ;-)
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Everblue wrote:
Oh....
Oops :-D
But wait - I do have a VAT number.
Then you should of course deduct the VAT from the competition as well in your comparisons! ;-)
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@Rob
Interesting picture of a PCI -> AGP adapter there!
While this one makes it possible to use AGP cards in normal cases, you seems to be bound to low profile cards, right?
If GFX indeed will be the main purpose of the first PCI slot of the Flex-SAM, then perhaps they should have put an AGP slot there from the start?
Maybe this will change before production?
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
Everblue wrote:
Oh....
Oops :-D
But wait - I do have a VAT number.
Then you should of course deduct the VAT from the competition as well in your comparisons! ;-)
Damn, I've been pwn3d, again :(
:-D
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takemehomegrandma wrote:
@Hans
It looks like they're managing to do what Eyetech tried but failed to do
I don't read any signs of *success* out of the publicly available info, but at least it looks like they are *trying*, which is always a good sign to see at fresh entrepreneurs! :-)
Well, there are no solid indicators of success, but the Zigbee module and form-factor change suggests that some customers have had their input. Zigbee is a bit of an odd thing to put in; I hadn't even thought of that. However, I can see how its useful.
This is, IMHO, further than Eyetech got. I don't recall seeing any changes to their board designs to satisfy industrial needs.
their primary business is with industrial customers, so they don't rely on Amiga related sales for survival.
That leads to the follow up question whether there really are any of these mysterious and rather vague "industrial customers"? In true volume, enough to "rely on for survival"? And why they would buy this product rather than something else?
If the specifications match what the control equipment needs, it would be a reason to buy this over something else.
However I still strongly question the FPGA. Why is it still there? I wonder if that has *ever* been used by *a single one* of acube's customers? And for what, exactly?
Your guess is as good as mine. I see it as an easy way to put a data bridge in to existing equipment.
No? It doesn't have Altivec you say?
I wish that they would stop making non-altivec PowerPC chips. It would be nice if having an SIMD unit could be assumed to be the minimum spec.
Hans
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I wish that they would stop making non-altivec PowerPC chips. It would be nice if having an SIMD unit could be assumed to be the minimum spec.
Altivec is completely useless with an ancient 60x bus.
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I know why they put FPGA .....
Not only we get OS4, but we can also get minimig on the same board :D
:-D