Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: redrumloa on August 15, 2003, 02:31:43 PM
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I just made another nice purchase which will start making it's way into my auctions within ~3-4 weeks. No full systems this time, bot alot of neat NEW loot :-D :-D
Stay tuned:-)
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's/amiga.org/redrumloa auctions.info/g'
:-P
Nah, just teasing back.
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Thats good you found the a4000 tower motherboard i want . :-D :-D :-D :-D
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Wow, MORE NOS equipment!!
Where did you get all these Nitrous Oxide kits from???? :-D :-D
(One for the Fast and Furious fans out there, sorry couldn't resist :-P)
But in all seriousness now:
Nice one Red, you seem to be turning into a veritable Del-Boy! :-) :-)
(Character from Only fools and Horses - Brit Sitcom, Del-Boy was known as a bit of a trader ;-) )
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redrumloa wrote:
No full systems this time, bot alot of neat NEW loot
I'll take one of those A3000+ AGA motherboards, please.. :-D
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That reminds me, can ya mail me your address so I can come to pick up what we discussed?
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downix wrote:
That reminds me, can ya mail me your address so I can come to pick up what we discussed?
Wouldn't that have been easier to ask in a PM? or maybe you want someone like me to ask...
"What did you discuss?" :-D
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redrumloa wrote:
I just made another nice purchase which will start making it's way into my auctions within ~3-4 weeks. No full systems this time, bot alot of neat NEW loot :-D :-D
Stay tuned:-)
I said it before and I'll say it again:
red - you're a very lucky git! :-P
If you keep finding stuff, you'll be able to retire early off the money you made from selling them on :-D
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@bloodline
A full size arcade game and loose Jamma boards.
@Vincent (not Vincient)
Lucky? maybe. This deal required crafty negotiations :lol:
Actually there will be very little profit margin in this load.. Stay tuned..
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Now, just need to convince the in-laws to loan me one of their 4 trucks so I can pick it up.
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At the rate things are going, I'd estimate you're only a few months away from finding the legendary warehouse of brand new CD32s. :-D
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Its ok. I already have a floppy drive for the A3000T you found me :-D
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I have a CD-32 already. I want to see a warehouse filled with A3000+'s personally.
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New A3000+s? Warehouse full of new CD32s? New A3000Ts? You guys are thinking WAAAY too big :-o :-o
Think much much smaller :-)
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I know what it is !! naa na na na naa na :-P
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Think much much smaller
I am i only want an a4000T motherboard. :-D
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Those cool black Amiga Technologies mice?
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@Targgy
Come on IRC, I'll tell ya:-)
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Cool!
How do you know there will be little profit margin?
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I want to see a warehouse filled with A3000+'s personally.
It would be pretty difficult to find a warehouse
full, since they only made 50...:P
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"Think much much smaller.. "
Hmmm, A600's ?
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Of those 50, does anyone here own one besides D. Haynie? Perhaps there is one in an old rich man's garage with its battery leaking *shudder* :-x
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@Lo:
IIRC there was nothing special about them except the FF and SCSI onboard.
Of course it's a rarity and has value because of that, but technicallywise it's the same as an A4000.
An AAA chipset board would be different, maybe a PCI version of one ;-)
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Think smaller eh? /me thinks of a warehouse of Cybervision 64/3D cards which would nicely complement his A2000...
/me drools thinking of PPC Z2 slot cards...
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IRC there was nothing special about them except the FF and SCSI onboard.
Of course it's a rarity and has value because of that, but technicallywise it's the same as an A4000.
Actually they didn't even have the FF...the only
cool things about them were the SCSI and the
programmable DSP, but even if the DSP worked
there's no software (or documentation?) for it.
Cool for collectors, but "IMO" an original
Commodore 4000T would be a better find.
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@Lo
I know of about 4 more out there.
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@Jose
The A3000+'s real boost was the DSP, which gave it Pentium 3-800Mhz level performance... in 1992.
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redrumloa wrote:
Lucky? maybe. This deal required crafty negotiations :lol:
Getting them was brain-powered negotiations.
Getting into the position to negotiate for them is lucky :-)
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-edit-
Hmmmmm...don't think so. The "planned" DSP (did
it even work?) was mainly for 16 bit audio
capability, and besides it was only a 50mhz
chip; there's no way it would have provided
P3 800mhz performance even with 10 of them.
Still cool machines though, don't get me wrong!:)
Softhut was selling a few of them a while
back, they may still have one if anyone's
interested.
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redrumloa wrote:
I just made another nice purchase which will start making it's way into my auctions within ~3-4 weeks. No full systems this time, bot alot of neat NEW loot :-D :-D
Stay tuned:-)
Damn I have no patience, this lot is on it's way... But I want it now :-(
Oh and I am in negotiations for 2 other lots ATM. This is getting really interesting :-D
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A warehouse full of Eclipsis machines? :o)
Damien
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@-D-
A DSP is not the same as a CPU, how it's math results are measured do not come up equal. Let's dig up the AT&T DSP3210 performance specs here for a moment:
The AT&T DSP3210 is capable of 12.5 million instructions per section, 25 million floating point operations per second according to Dave Haynie. Yes folk, that's SIMD for ya. Each instruction does 2 math operations. All of these, 32-bit floating-point. No intermix of 8 or 16-bit here, simplified the design. But real world tests reveal the same DSP getting 16.7 MIPS / 33MFLOPS. The DSP3210 was introduced in 1991, back when 386's were still speed-kings. And a 386 can't even do a single MFLOP.
Now, the 68030 does 1.3 MFLOPS @ 50Mhz. The 68040-25 did about twice that, at 2.4 MFLOPS The Pentium 2 gets 9 MFLOPS @ 450Mhz. So looks like I am right here.
As for audio, the DSP3210 was not limited to audio, nor was it ever intended to be limited to audio. They had an audio chip that was to run alongside it (from Crystal Semiconductor or Analog Devices) for audio.
As well, the DSP3210 continued to be evolved, with 55Mhz, 66Mhz, and even 80Mhz models arriving. But it ended it's life in 1999, along with all of Lucent's 32-bit DSP solutions. Sad really. It could have given the Amiga a real shot in the arm.
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Think much much smaller :-)
No-one suspected it, but C= was working on an Amiga laptop - and it's the only prototype :-o
...or maybe not ;-)
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A full size arcade game and loose Jamma boards.
I don't suppose you also frequent(ed) the Neo-Geo.com forums? There's a "redrum" on those forums that apparently hail from Florida. :-?
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Matt_H wrote:
At the rate things are going, I'd estimate you're only a few months away from finding the legendary warehouse of brand new CD32s. :-D
There was a £ shop in Wrexham selling CD32's off. Brand new ones at £1 each. I bought 5 and gave em all away......
And now when I'm really broke - totally skink and actually thinking about selling my computer.... damn.
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@ Bobson
You gave all of them away?
Next time put such things on e-bay. You will find that people are prepared to pay you to have them.
Anyway, spilt milk and crying and all that....:-P
Hope your fortunes change for the better soon. :-)
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Bobsonsirjonny wrote:
There was a £ shop in Wrexham selling CD32's off. Brand new ones at £1 each. I bought 5 and gave em all away......
You... did... WHAT?!?! :-o
:-)
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@Downix
I'm afraid you're mistaken; let's look at some
figures from the Sandra benchmarking utility:
Intel PII @450mhz 1220 MIPS 590 MFLOPS
AMD K6-2 @400mhz 1165 MIPS 475 MFLOPS
Intel PI @266mhz 630 MIPS 300 MFLOPS
And a few Pentium 3 benchmarks:
Intel PIII @500mhz 1350 MIPS 670 MFLOPS
Intel PIII @750mhz 2012 MIPS 998 MFLOPS
Oh and what the hell,
68060/60 @66mhz 86 MIPS 34 MFLOPS
Yes I'm well aware that the DSP in the A3000+
was also to be used for some maths processing,
but let's be realistic, the '030 and the DSP
combined wouldn't have equalled the FPU
performance of a P266, and once we factor
integer performance (MIPS) it's really in for
a beating.
Then we have to consider other things such as
bus, memory speed and graphics performance,
and I'm sorry but in every respect your average
PIII had the 3000+ beaten by a considerable
margin.
So looks like I am right here.
Please check the number(s), and try your call
again later.
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@-D-
I pulled my figured right from overclockers websites for 32-bit MFLOP. What bit-depth are those numbers, because they look like 8 or 16-bit to me.
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I don't suppose you also frequent(ed) the Neo-Geo.com forums? There's a "redrum" on those forums that apparently hail from Florida. :-?
Nope, not me! Interesting coincidence :-)
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All of the processors listed have full 32bit
architectures (branch, integer and floating
point) and I assume have been measured as such.
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@-D-
But did the benchmarking programs state as such? I made very well sure the spec I grabbed said so. (Mind you, it also said "L2 cache disabled" on the P2) It's an old trick to run smaller/faster code to inflate a benchmark. (I remember old coders that ran the 68000 in 16-bit mode, which ment it executed 150% faster from the benchmark's angle)
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Well to be sure I'll doublecheck the sources and
post back later today.
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@-D-
I'd also appreciate some P2-450 scores with the L2 engaged. I know that the FSB and memory access would kill the perf without it.
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OT! Yeesh :-D
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So, no-one's asked yet so I think I'll just go ahead and do it: are you giving your pals at amiga.org (ie us ;-) ) first dibs on the stuff like you did with the last lot?
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@redrumloa
If you happen to come across a pallet of new AGA chipsets... :-D
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@Codesmith
I wasn't planning on it, however since you are a premier customer i will give YOU first dibs on it :-D
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@Redrum
Wow, that's customer appreciation right there. I feel special :-D
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@Codesmith
Check your email.
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Ok, What did I miss, who's got the A3000+'s. Gimme gimme gimme :-D
What new batch, what new stuff, give us a list ! :-P
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@Downix
Well I certainly did find some interesting info on this
subject. Check out this link:
http://www-it.desy.de/systems/linux/meetings/22ndLUM_Benchmarks.pdf
Of notable interest to us is page 4, under the heading "Dirac
Operator Benchmark", which rates a P4 @1.4ghz as capable
of achieving 1503 MFLOPS while performing 32-bit maths;
814 computing 64-bit maths (under this particular test).
Now this is entirely consistant with my earlier benchmark,
rating the P3 @750mhz as capable of processing 998
MFLOPS - considering that clock - for - clock, there is
very little difference between the P3 and P4 (some tests
even rate the P3 as being "faster" processing certain tasks
at the same clockspeed).
We also have to realize that MFLOPS is an entirely subjective
rating to begin with - are we measuring float multiplication,
division, linear (static) float or perhaps interleaved (piped)
float? And consider that the increased superscalar nature of
modern chips means that they can process much more
information per clock cycle than those old chips ever could;
note the radical difference between the 68040 and 68060
when performing certain operations due to the 68060's (quite
basic) super-scalar abilities. This site seems an accurate
fundamental description of MIPS and MFLOP ratings:
http://futuretech.mirror.vuurwerk.net/perf.html
Another interesting factor from the above (first) link is the
difference between the P4 MFLOPS rating when comparing
the 32 and 64-bit maths tests...the difference is almost linear!
Applying this same logic to our 750mhz P3, we can see that
even if the MFLOPS rating of 998 was achieved while
calculating 8 or 16-bit functions (unlikely), the P3 would still
be considerably faster...and in some respects the jury is
still out on this one, as the particular design of the "32-bit"
CPU will largely influence how well it may calculate
8 or 16-bit maths.
And now we haven't even addressed the issue of memory
bandwidth or "graphics" performance, which surely
would have put the (already) challenged 3000+ at an even
larger disadvantage paired against our P3. Also, in the
end, we have to think about 'real world' factors: How would
the 3000+ compare to our PIII in the theoretical game of
Q2?
-edit-
Check out this cool site for some more accurate benchmarks
on the PII @450mhz:
http://n0cgi.distributed.net/speed/
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Downix come on...some old DSP from 1993 or whatever beating a P4/AthlonXP/G5/etc in mips?... come oooooon... that sounds like insanity just from an outside perspective... a P4 3ghz HT rig is more powerful then a Cray from 1990 in many respects... let alone one little ol AT&T DSP chip.