Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 07:49:34 PM
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Ok, new thread...
If I put the VNC application on a CD (with it configured to start up and allow any incoming connection) and a text file ( called AUTORUN.INF) that opens the application that should work?
Now does anyone here have an old Mac which which to test the theory and then create an ISO for me?
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I don't have an old Mac, but I can test it in ShapeShifter running Mac OS 8 if that helps.
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moto
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Ok, found something called AutoStart which will auto run a program upon insertion of the disk... now I need someone to set up VNC in MacOS 8 for me :-)
For AutoStart:
http://www.macdisk.com/cdstarten.php3
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I was just about to post that very link ;-) I can try to get it working under an emu, but it would be 68k. Did OS 8 have 68k emulation?
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moto
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I don't think there's such a thing as an auto-running CD for Macs.
I think I might be able to help you, though, but I was just about to head out for a pint..
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motorollin wrote:
I don't have an old Mac, but I can test it in ShapeShifter running Mac OS 8 if that helps.
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moto
Nice one, are you able to get VNC set up and configured on that and then zip it up and send it to me :-)
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Hmm actually I could never get TCP/IP to work in ShapeShifter. However, I've got a copy of Mac OS 8.0 upstairs so I could install that under Basilisk on my MacBook and try it there. Any good? :-)
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
I was just about to post that very link ;-) I can try to get it working under an emu, but it would be 68k. Did OS 8 have 68k emulation?
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moto
Yes, totally invisible... like PPC in OSX :-)
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motorollin wrote:
Hmm actually I could never get TCP/IP to work in ShapeShifter. However, I've got a copy of Mac OS 8.0 upstairs so I could install that under Basilisk on my MacBook and try it there. Any good? :-)
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moto
Sounds like a winner!!! Come on!!!! lets see if we can actually do this!!! :-D
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niklasni1 wrote:
I don't think there's such a thing as an auto-running CD for Macs.
I think I might be able to help you, though, but I was just about to head out for a pint..
run to the Off license and then lets geek this evening away!!! :-)
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bloodline wrote:
Sounds like a winner!!! Come on!!!! lets see if we can actually do this!!! :-D
WIP :-)
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moto
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The VNC servers all seem to need a system extension...
Don't you know anybody with an old mac that would let you borrow a keyboard? That would make everything so much easier...
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niklasni1 wrote:
The VNC servers all seem to need a system extension...
Don't you know anybody with an old mac that would let you borrow a keyboard? That would make everything so much easier...
Nope... Everyone I know either has an intel mac or a PC...
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niklasni1 wrote:
The VNC servers all seem to need a system extension...
This one does not require an extension.. but will work better with one:
http://www.redstonesoftware.com/downloads/
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niklasni1 wrote:
The VNC servers all seem to need a system extension...
Does that mean there's no point me creating the autostart CD?
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moto
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bloodline wrote:
This one does not require an extension.. but will work better with one:
http://www.redstonesoftware.com/downloads/
Is it 68k? I would set up a PPC emulator but I only have a 68k copy of the OS.
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
niklasni1 wrote:
The VNC servers all seem to need a system extension...
Does that mean there's no point me creating the autostart CD?
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moto
No... I've found one that doesn't need any extensions!!!
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motorollin wrote:
bloodline wrote:
This one does not require an extension.. but will work better with one:
http://www.redstonesoftware.com/downloads/
Is it 68k? I would set up a PPC emulator but I only have a 68k copy of the OS.
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moto
Can you set up both? even if you can't configure the PPC one it might work...
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Not sure what you mean. I don't have a PPC version of the OS to set this up. I can install the 68k version of OS 8 and try to use it to create an autostart CD with the PPC version of that software, but I have no idea if it will work.
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
Not sure what you mean. I don't have a PPC version of the OS to set this up. I can install the 68k version of OS 8 and try to use it to create an autostart CD with the PPC version of that software, but I have no idea if it will work.
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moto
Sorry... I mean: make one as you would with the 68k program.. make the ISO... and then replace the 68 exe with the PPC one and make an ISO ... one of those has to work :-D
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Blimey... I'll try!
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
Blimey... I'll try!
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moto
HAHAHAHa, sorry... I just love finding solutions to problems :-)
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Me too :-)
Getting there (http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm244/motorollin/os8.png).
Erm, now what :lol:
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
Me too :-)
Getting there (http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm244/motorollin/os8.png).
Erm, now what :lol:
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moto
hmmm... I'm trying to to get the MacImage program to work... but it doesn't preserve HFS file data :-(
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I've found a 68k VNC server which runs without extensions. It complains that performance will suffer but it runs. Unfortunately I can't access the emulated Mac's network from my MacBook to test it, as it's on a different subnet (although it can get to the Internet...) Any ideas?
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
I've found a 68k VNC server which runs without extensions. It complains that performance will suffer but it runs. Unfortunately I can't access the emulated Mac's network from my MacBook to test it, as it's on a different subnet (although it can get to the Internet...) Any ideas?
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moto
Just so long as it fires up I think we are onto a winner...
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Ok.... so any ideas what I do with it?
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
Ok.... so any ideas what I do with it?
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moto
no.
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I'm not even sure the VNC server is working. I downloaded a 68k VNC viewer and pointed it at localhost, and it just sat there. It actually appears to have hung the emulator.
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
I'm not even sure the VNC server is working. I downloaded a 68k VNC viewer and pointed it at localhost, and it just sat there. It actually appears to have hung the emulator.
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moto
I need to think...
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Going to try making an autostart disc anyway. Will let you know if it works.
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moto
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I think the PowerMac hasn't actually made it through the boot process :-(
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I thought you said you can ping it?
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
I thought you said you can ping it?
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moto
Yeah, but the CD-Rom drive doesn't spin up upon disk insertion...
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Hmm, so it's not booting or the drive is dead. Anyway, I used that MacImage software to supposedly create an image with an autostart app on it, but it won't burn. This is becoming very frustrating!
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
Hmm, so it's not booting or the drive is dead. Anyway, I used that MacImage software to supposedly create an image with an autostart app on it, but it won't burn. This is becoming very frustrating!
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moto
Buring boot the PowerMAc issues a few beeps that I'm not expecting... I suspect that the machine is halting on error... ie no keyboard....
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I wonder whether the machine will boot from an IDE HDD? If so you could install OS 8 on to a HDD from within an emulator and put the VNC server in the System/Startup Items folder, then boot the PowerMac from it. The VNC server should then start on boot.
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moto
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bloodline wrote:
Buring boot the PowerMAc issues a few beeps that I'm not expecting... I suspect that the machine is halting on error... ie no keyboard....
Bloody non-standard connectors... why not just use PS/2 and VGA ports? :roll:
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
I wonder whether the machine will boot from an IDE HDD? If so you could install OS 8 on to a HDD from within an emulator and put the VNC server in the System/Startup Items folder, then boot the PowerMac from it. The VNC server should then start on boot.
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moto
Right... Now I have to think how to do that :-)
Ok... I have a plan...
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Not a huge amount of help if the machine doesn't actually boot though. Well I'll have to give it a rest for the night - I've got revision to do tomorrow so need some sleep!
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
Not a huge amount of help if the machine doesn't actually boot though. Well I'll have to give it a rest for the night - I've got revision to do tomorrow so need some sleep!
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moto
I'm gonna hack a way for a bit... night! :-)
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Ok, I'll be sure to check up in the morning ;-) G'night!
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
Ok, I'll be sure to check up in the morning ;-) G'night!
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moto
After installing OS9 on to a 640Meg HD... I discovered that the PowerMAC does not have an IDE port...
Back to square one. I think I have reached the end of the line, with this one.
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does this system have a floppy drive? it's a long shot, but assuming the model in question is wired to be able to boot from a floppy at all, you could likely mod an old netbsd install disk to boot, load the scsi driver, and start a tftp server. the server should be small enough that if you lose the actual installer there'd be room for it. i don't remember ever having to hold down any keys to boot from a floppy on any mac capable of doing so.
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pkillo wrote:
does this system have a floppy drive? it's a long shot, but assuming the model in question is wired to be able to boot from a floppy at all, you could likely mod an old netbsd install disk to boot, load the scsi driver, and start a tftp server. the server should be small enough that if you lose the actual installer there'd be room for it. i don't remember ever having to hold down any keys to boot from a floppy on any mac capable of doing so.
It does have a floppy drive... but I have no idea how to go about creating a NetBSD disk... or even how write to a floppy disk any more... let alone in Mac format...
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if you have a linux/unix system, just issue the command "dd if= of=/dev/fd0" assuming your floppy drive is device fd0 (usually it is for the a drive), and you will have the image on the disk. the disks, as i recall, are not in the mac fs format; any bsd system (live boot from cd on a pc?) should be able to mount the disk after the write the image. here's a link to the floppy image:
ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-archive/NetBSD-1.4.3/macppc/installation/floppy/boot.fs.gz
that's the one from a very old version (circa 2000), I'm guessing it might have more room than a later revision. i would try to boot the unmodified disk first to see if it will load at all.
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pkillo wrote:
if you have a linux/unix system, just issue the command "dd if= of=/dev/fd0" assuming your floppy drive is device fd0 (usually it is for the a drive), and you will have the image on the disk.
Ok, I didn't make myself clear... I don't have any machines with Floppy drives :-)
the disks, as i recall, are not in the mac fs format; any bsd system (live boot from cd on a pc?) should be able to mount the disk after the write the image.
Can the PowerMac boot disks in the 1.44MB PC-FDC format?
here's a link to the floppy image:
ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-archive/NetBSD-1.4.3/macppc/installation/floppy/boot.fs.gz
that's the one from a very old version (circa 2000), I'm guessing it might have more room than a later revision. i would try to boot the unmodified disk first to see if it will load at all.
In for a penny... many thanks for the link!
Ok... before I rip the Floppy drive from my W-30 and pop on to an old PC mobo I have lying around here... once the floppy disk is in Mac... how do I get it out again :-?
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motorollin wrote:
Bloody non-standard connectors... why not just use PS/2 and VGA ports?
Because they didn't exist when the Mac connectors were introduced?
bloodline wrote:
Buring boot the PowerMAc issues a few beeps that I'm not expecting... I suspect that the machine is halting on error... ie no keyboard....
Macs don't care that there's no keyboard. It's probably complaining that the computer was improperly shut down last time and is informing you that just pulling the plug might cause data loss and damage to the hardware..
bloodline wrote:
Ok... before I rip the Floppy drive from my W-30 and pop on to an old PC mobo I have lying around here... once the floppy disk is in Mac... how do I get it out again :-?
Are you sure that your W-30 (great taste in keyboards, BTW) floppy drive is PC-compatible? To be honest I'd be surprised if it was.
The Mac will eject the floppy when the system shuts down... if it's shut down properly...
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niklasni1 wrote:
motorollin wrote:
Bloody non-standard connectors... why not just use PS/2 and VGA ports?
Because they didn't exist when the Mac connectors were introduced?
True, also the ADB is more like USB (a single serial bus for all low speed devices to plug onto) and thus better than PS/2... but I digress... without a keyboard/mouse or a monitor I am stuck...
bloodline wrote:
Buring boot the PowerMAc issues a few beeps that I'm not expecting... I suspect that the machine is halting on error... ie no keyboard....
Macs don't care that there's no keyboard. It's probably complaining that the computer was improperly shut down last time and is informing you that just pulling the plug might cause data loss and damage to the hardware..
When I press the powerbutton to power down, it spends a bit of time writing to disk before it powers off... so I assume it's following a shutdown procedure...
bloodline wrote:
Ok... before I rip the Floppy drive from my W-30 and pop on to an old PC mobo I have lying around here... once the floppy disk is in Mac... how do I get it out again :-?
Are you sure that your W-30 (great taste in keyboards, BTW) floppy drive is PC-compatible?
Yeah :-) I've done it before... actually a quick look through my junk box, I;ve found an old Chinon FZ-357 so I can use that rather than pull my beloved 12bit sampling keyboard to bits :-)
I love the sound of the W-30... for Moto: the main industrial sounding riff on Under Moonlight ;-)
To be honest I'd be surprised if it was.
:-)
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niklasni1 wrote:
motorollin wrote:
Bloody non-standard connectors... why not just use PS/2 and VGA ports?
Because they didn't exist when the Mac connectors were introduced?
Meh, I suppose I'll let them off then :roll: ;-)
motorollin wrote:
I love the sound of the W-30... for Moto: the main industrial sounding riff on Under Moonlight ;-)
I *love* that sound! :-)
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
niklasni1 wrote:
motorollin wrote:
Bloody non-standard connectors... why not just use PS/2 and VGA ports?
Because they didn't exist when the Mac connectors were introduced?
Meh, I suppose I'll let them off then :roll: ;-)
I'll let them off for the ADB... they had no excuse with not using a VGA port... :-)
motorollin wrote:
I love the sound of the W-30... for Moto: the main industrial sounding riff on Under Moonlight ;-)
I *love* that sound! :-)
I wish I could remember the original sound source... suffice to say it had a slow birthing process :-) Only for it to be mostly covered up by the guitar in the final mix :-x
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bloodline wrote:
I wish I could remember the original sound source... suffice to say it had a slow birthing process :-) Only for it to be mostly covered up by the guitar in the final mix :-x
Well, you can hear it. I really like that song :-)
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moto
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Can the PowerMac boot disks in the 1.44MB PC-FDC format?
The hardware can read and write those disks. It definitely won't boot from a FAT fs disk, though. But it'll be completely happy with a disk made from an image using a PC.
In for a penny... many thanks for the link!
Ok... before I rip the Floppy drive from my W-30 and pop on to an old PC mobo I have lying around here... once the floppy disk is in Mac... how do I get it out again :-?
np. There _should_ be a hole for a paperclip to be inserted, just like a CD-ROM drive. this is not to say that Apple having decided to cheap out on their floppies at some point in the 90s won't have eliminated this feature. I know at some point they switched to using cheap PC floppy drives, so YMMV.
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pkillo wrote:
Can the PowerMac boot disks in the 1.44MB PC-FDC format?
The hardware can read and write those disks. It definitely won't boot from a FAT fs disk, though. But it'll be completely happy with a disk made from an image using a PC.
In for a penny... many thanks for the link!
Ok... before I rip the Floppy drive from my W-30 and pop on to an old PC mobo I have lying around here... once the floppy disk is in Mac... how do I get it out again :-?
np. There _should_ be a hole for a paperclip to be inserted, just like a CD-ROM drive. this is not to say that Apple having decided to cheap out on their floppies at some point in the 90s won't have eliminated this feature. I know at some point they switched to using cheap PC floppy drives, so YMMV.
No go... It didn't seem to recognize I had a floppy disk in the drive...
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Hm.
Are you sure everything's connected to the motherboard?
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niklasni1 wrote:
Hm.
Are you sure everything's connected to the motherboard?
Yup... it all look good in there!
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And it doesn't even spit the floppy out when you start the computer? Just nothing at all?
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niklasni1 wrote:
And it doesn't even spit the floppy out when you start the computer? Just nothing at all?
Seems to ignore it...
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No wait , it does eject it if you boot with the disk in the drive!!!
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bah. it sounds to me like the floppy drive in the mac isn't good anymore. I have tossed a few mac systems because of the drive going (without a cd-rom drive a floppy-less mac is kind of worthless). Does the drive make any sound at all after the disk clicks into place?
[edit] I just posted on top of you. :) If it's ejecting it that's a good sign, at least you know it works. Now all we have to do is figure out what needs to be on the floppy...
Hmm... this might help:
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/Utilities/Network_Access_Disk_7.5.sea.bin
I don't know if it will work on your model, but that is the most recent boot floppy Apple has made freely available. You're going to need Mac tools to write the image to disk, so this:
http://www.emulators.com/docs/StpByStp.htm
and a copy of a Mac ROM should get you started.
[edit2] You might need this, too:
http://welovemacs.com/adb1button.html
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pkillo wrote:
bah. it sounds to me like the floppy drive in the mac isn't good anymore. I have tossed a few mac systems because of the drive going (without a cd-rom drive a floppy-less mac is kind of worthless). Does the drive make any sound at all after the disk clicks into place?
[edit] I just posted on top of you. :) If it's ejecting it that's a good sign, at least you know it works. Now all we have to do is figure out what needs to be on the floppy...
Hmm... this might help:
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/Utilities/Network_Access_Disk_7.5.sea.bin
I don't know if it will work on your model, but that is the most recent boot floppy Apple has made freely available. You're going to need Mac tools to write the image to disk, so this:
http://www.emulators.com/docs/StpByStp.htm
and a copy of a Mac ROM should get you started.
[edit2] You might need this, too:
http://welovemacs.com/adb1button.html
Well... I think I'm going to put this to one side, and wait until I find a monitor and/or keyboard/mouse...
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Many Thanks to all who have offered assistance... it's a shame I couldn't get this thing up headless... but... well... it was a long shot.
In the end I was defeated by SCSI, ADB and Apple Video ports... at least with the Amiga it has a keyboard built in... You can output the video to a TV... and, in an unaccountable stroke of brilliance, Commodore saw fit to use IDE in their machines...
I really can't see much point to anyone wanting an old PowerMac :-)
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I really can't see much point to anyone wanting an old PowerMac :-)
There really isn't any. The 68k Macs were fairly cool because they were easy to program for (assuming you were willing to ignore the bloated Pascal APIs and take apart the routines in the ROM and System file) but to my mind there's really no reason to bother with an old PPC model unless you're going to run something cooler than MacOS.
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Sorry to post off topic, but could all you Mac experts answer which MacOS version is the latest, or best to run emulated on a CSPPC using iFusion from Jim Drew and company distributed through BlitterSoft?
I bought it years ago, actually pre-ordered it before it was even released and think I ended up waiting many months to get it, buy I never tried to install and use it. I got it at about the same time I packed up all my Amigas and moved, and never got back to trying to use it.
I have heard that some users might have been successful in getting different versions of MacOS9.x to run, but don't know if that is the best. I don't want to buy a version of MacOS that I can't get to load with my iFusion emulation.
Any suggestions on which MacOS to use and where to find it besides eBay, would be greatly appreciated.
End Thread Jack:
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@niklasni1:
Ok, lets talk bits :-)
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amigadave wrote:
Sorry to post off topic, but could all you Mac experts answer which MacOS version is the latest, or best to run emulated on a CSPPC using iFusion from Jim Drew and company distributed through BlitterSoft?
I bought it years ago, actually pre-ordered it before it was even released and think I ended up waiting many months to get it, buy I never tried to install and use it. I got it at about the same time I packed up all my Amigas and moved, and never got back to trying to use it.
I have heard that some users might have been successful in getting different versions of MacOS9.x to run, but don't know if that is the best. I don't want to buy a version of MacOS that I can't get to load with my iFusion emulation.
Any suggestions on which MacOS to use and where to find it besides eBay, would be greatly appreciated.
End Thread Jack:
Last night I installed OS9 on Sheepshaver... it worked fine.
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iFusion is PPC to run MacOS for PPC, is "Sheepshaver" able to run via PPC?
Also I am reluctant to buy any MacOS, as I am afraid that it will only be able to install for a certain Mac model and won't install on my CSPPC.
Is that no longer a problem with MacOS9?
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See if there's a compatible "system enabler" here:
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_Enablers/
and then you don't have to buy it, just go up a directory and download it. :)
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amigadave wrote:
iFusion is PPC to run MacOS for PPC, is "Sheepshaver" able to run via PPC?
SheepShaver is the Intel Mac version of Shapeshifter... it emulates a PPC PowerMac... and I can run OS 9 on it very well.
Also I am reluctant to buy any MacOS, as I am afraid that it will only be able to install for a certain Mac model and won't install on my CSPPC.
Is that no longer a problem with MacOS9?
Well... I suggest you look for several classic mac OSs and then try them , if any work then go an buy the one one you like best :-)
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Sheepshaver is an Amiga program to emulate a Mac and run the Intel version of MacOS? AND, it also emulates a PPC Mac so that older versions of the MacOS that were written only for PPC powered Mac computers, can also be run under it (in other words, an Amiga emulating an Intel Mac emulating a PPC Mac)?
Very strange, and probably slow too at 604e/233mHz speeds.
I wonder how it compares to iFusion? I think I have read complaints that iFusion was never really finished the way it should have been.
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So I gave in and went to every single Computer junk shop in Central London... not single one had ADB keyboard or mouse.. most thought I was stupid and kept on trying to tell me I was wrong and needed "U" "S" "B"... idiots... :pissed:
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@ Bloodline
If you're handy with a soldering iron here's a pinout for the VGA adapter:
http://pinouts.ru/VideoCables/MacVideoToVGA_pinout.shtml
Also, for a keyboard, check eCrap.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Apple-Macintosh-ADB-Design-Keyboard-Enhanced-MAC-105A_W0QQitemZ220245099859QQihZ012QQcategoryZ25444QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em122
-Steve