Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Ratte on May 20, 2008, 08:54:04 AM
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Georg Braun (gb97816) released an updated version of his selfmade A1000 mainboard.
The latest version includes an extra adressline on the PLD for further 32 bit memory-expansions.
On the upper left side (under the DIN-VGA-Output) you can see a internal connector to feed in a vga-signal from a "undone" internal graphiccard.
(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4308/1_3938.jpg)
Other (allready known) features:
68030/68EC030 @ 50 MHz support
68881/68882 @ 50 MHz support
(successful tested with up to 60MHz !!)
8MB 32 bit fastmem / 0 waitstaits
ECS-Agnus with 2MB ChipMem
ECS-Denise
Amber-FlickerFixer
realtime-clock
1MB flashmemory for drivers and addons
internal ZorroII connector
IDE-connector
(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4308/1_3940.jpg)
(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4308/1_3939.jpg)
There is also a new expansion for his boarddesign .. 2GB CF-Drive for the frontdoor.
(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4308/1_3746.jpg)
Testrun with 60MHz (SysInfo untruly reports 66Mhz).
For more details (and eagle-files) visit Georgs homepage.
http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/ (http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/)
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Will this be mass produced? :-D
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Great! Is there a contact email to see if they are being produced and sold?
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If there is, I'm first in the list to buy this :-D
Or even better, an atx compliant version of this.
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Incredible...
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Everblue wrote:
If there is, I'm first in the list to buy this :-D
Or even better, an atx compliant version of this.
I believe the whole point is to stay with the A1000 case, the TRUE Amiga!
I wish they were for sale, but fear that they never will. I am actually surprised that he is still working on improving his design. I think I read that his first design cost him thousands to produce, I think around $10,000 to design and manufacture the prototype. Maybe this second (or is it third) version is less costly, I do not know. But I would love to have one, the A1000 is the best!
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, I think around $10,000 to design and manufacture the prototype.
he must really really like doing this sort of thing.
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the parts list list the PCB as 1150 EURO. that should give you some idea.
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AU$1800 ?
I'll pass thanks.
I can but a new dual core PC for that.
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of course that is the price for printing a single prototype PCB. If he were to mass produce (say get 5000 boards printed) it would cost much cheaper than that. But since he can never sell that many boards, I don't think he'll ever mass produce this and offer for sale. also building up a board requires much work and time I presume.
I quoted that price just to give an idea how much this prototype has costed to this guy, not to give an idea how much it would cost if he sold it.
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Wow.
that is a work of art and love :-)
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Lets wait and see.
I want one, that's for sure :-D
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Wow, that's crazy. Absolutely silly crazy.
I'm impressed (and extremely jealous of his skills) that he were able to build something like this. And as for the costs of development, I'll assume he works in the industry and has a very generous employer..?
Wouldn't mind one of these myself. Pity it still needs original chips from dead/butchered Amigas, though.
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amigadave wrote:
I wish they were for sale, but fear that they never will. I am actually surprised that he is still working on improving his design. I think I read that his first design cost him thousands to produce, I think around $10,000 to design and manufacture the prototype. Maybe this second (or is it third) version is less costly, I do not know. But I would love to have one, the A1000 is the best!
His first prototype costs him less than 1000 Euros.
Rev.01 is costs him arround 250 Euros.
But this is only the PCB .. unsoldered without ICs.
Its up to everyone to use his eagle-files, they are for free.
But you have to butch some old Amigas for some parts.
BTW.: If there are resellers out there, that are interessted in his board, contact him.
Higher quantities can drop the price !
:-)
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Wow! This is the first I've seen or heard of this, but it's a truly remarkable achievement...
I'd love one too, but I'd want one that's ready to go, without faffing around looking for bits...
I'd be willing to pay up to $500, but not much more... I guess there's not much chance of these ever being mass produced - pity..
Cheers,
Mike.
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I've just sent a quote to some Chinese PCB manufacturers I have good experience with. I'm requesting a quote for unpopulated PCB's - I can do the soldering myself.
I'll let you guys know as soon as I get a reply.
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Would this require A100 parts or would dead/knackered A500s suffice as donors?
Andy
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this board requires an ECS chipset, so an A1000 will not do it. You need an A500+ or A3000. Also an Amber chip from an A3000 if you want the scandoubler.
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Shame A1000's are rare here.
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Are there updated Eagle files for the new version available? It would be nice to have the latest version if we are going to order a batch of blank PCB's.
Thanks,
-Jeff
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I say we fill wembley and give him a round of applause
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weirdami wrote:
, I think around $10,000 to design and manufacture the prototype.
he must really really like doing this sort of thing.
is that not the definition of "Amiga"???
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I dont know, where these 10k are coming from.
But the latest information is 250 Euros for the Rev.01 PCB.
350 - 370 USD
;-)
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What about the folks who cant solder :(
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This is simply awesome. With this much talent in the Amiga community I'm stumped as to why no one has created a new mainboard for some of the other Amiga models out there.
Wouldn't a PPC mainboard for my A1200 be super cool or what?!
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Great board, would be nice to house this in a Mac Centris case or Power pc 6100 as those cases were Pizza box like and very A1000 like and available on EBAY for like $20 plus shipping.
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Why an ATX version? the best would be a re-developed A1000-Alike house, even with the signature(s) of this board's developers. I don't think it should be too expensive, but could be more authentic.
Everblue wrote:
If there is, I'm first in the list to buy this :-D
Or even better, an atx compliant version of this.
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Ok, I've got an estimate for $150 per unpopulated board. I just might order one to see how it turns out. I have a few semi-broken 500's for parts.
Unfortunately they could not offer volume discounts at this point, so I'll volunteer as the guinea pig.
Now, what we need is someone to clone the A1000 case... any takers? :)
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Everblue wrote:
What about the folks who cant solder :(
No such thing, just those that have not learned yet :-)
PZ.
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skurk wrote:
Ok, I've got an estimate for $150 per unpopulated board. I just might order one to see how it turns out. I have a few semi-broken 500's for parts.
Unfortunately they could not offer volume discounts at this point, so I'll volunteer as the guinea pig.
Now, what we need is someone to clone the A1000 case... any takers? :)
Ebay has always got some sort of A1000 going cheap including the odd "dead" one. A case shouldn't be too hard to come by.
With Jens working on the Clone-A project and producing replacement "chips" that fit in the original Amiga motherboard sockets, it might be possible soon to buy one of these new mobos and use Jens' Clone-A chips instead of gutting a real Amiga.
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this board requires an ECS chipset, so an A1000 will not do it. You need an A500+ or A3000. Also an Amber chip from an A3000 if you want the scandoubler.
Would an A600 work?
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With this much talent in the Amiga community I'm stumped as to why no one has created a new mainboard for some of the other Amiga models out there.
I think antigravity was doing something a while back but they were having trouble with their "talent". Or, some stories say, he was having trouble with them. Pretty much it was one guy commissioned to do some kind of clone Amiga or something. Whatever the jargon that applies, it might have been called "boxer", but I'm not sure. I think it only got as far as them showing the unfinished prototype at a few Amiga shows.
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weirdami wrote:
I think antigravity was doing something a while back but they were having trouble with their "talent". Or, some stories say, he was having trouble with them. Pretty much it was one guy commissioned to do some kind of clone Amiga or something. Whatever the jargon that applies, it might have been called "boxer", but I'm not sure. I think it only got as far as them showing the unfinished prototype at a few Amiga shows.
Yep, the infamous BoXeR by Mike Tinker (or Tinkler or something). I think most of us here were drooling over the specs when it was announces and had our wallets on standby to buy a board.
I'm not sure what the main problem was. Development costs, feature creep, bugs in the hardware or a combination of some or all of them.
Here's the bugger:
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/boxer.html
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This is incredibly cool. Wow!
For the hinted at internal graphics card, might I be so bold as to make a suggestion for consideration? Provide some bridge to PCI, so that a PCI->PCIexpress bridge might be used for one of these...
http://us.kontron.com/products/computeronmodules/universal+graphics+module/ugmm72.html
I've got my hands on one of these eval boards for an idea I've got, as well as a PLX RDK board to fit it all into a PCI slot, the module is small and should be pretty comfortable in this A1000 if it had a place to plug in. Might at least provide some ideas for the graphics, though I'm sure he's already thought out his plans for a while. But I'm hopeful that the UGM will in time provide variety and upgrade path to newer chips without small markets liek us needing some wacko to go bankrupt making 27 custom cards... (though I do appreciate the wackos in Amiga community who do it anyway!)
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Another question. When's he doing an AGA version with 060 or even better PPC with a PCI or PCI-Express slot? :)
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With this much talent in the Amiga community I'm stumped as to why no one has created a new mainboard for some of the other Amiga models out there.
$$$
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Everblue wrote:
What about the folks who cant solder :(
Maybe this is something for Acube? Just a thought...
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What about the folks who cant solder :(
Find a friend or pay someone who can?
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How many layers is this board?
What are the dimensions? (rough estimate)
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I hope this is not too off topic.
Do you think Clone-A will get made into an ASIC for direct chip replacement?
Just dreaming.
smack smack smack wake up
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admirable :-)
I've no need for this, but you have to grant it to the guy.
Congrats for pulling this off ;-)
ta
Tom UK
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I think there is one ECS chip in some A500, not just A500+. at least the fat Agnus, (but not the Denise). link (http://amiga.resource.cx/mod/a500.html)
in A600 its ECS, but its probably SMD..
it is an awesome achievement, but you have to ask yourself if its A1000 anymore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus)
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trekiej wrote:
I hope this is not too off topic.
Do you think Clone-A will get made into an ASIC for direct chip replacement?
Just dreaming.
smack smack smack wake up
Yes, I think that is the goal of the project. Whether it happens or not is another story, but it would be nice for nostalgic tinkerers of the future to be able to build their very own cycle exact Amiga clone computers.
With all that is being learned by Clone-A, Minimig and NatAmi projects, I hope it is being documented well so the expertise and knowledge is not lost for a second time.
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@ orange :
That is an interesting subject. I wondered about that sort of thing for a while and did not know that there was a wiki on it or even a discussion of it.
I guess it is if Amiga Inc. says it is. :-D
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trekiej wrote:
How many layers is this board?
What are the dimensions? (rough estimate)
The PCB appears to be 342 mm x 317 mm, 4 layers, 1.6 mm Fr4.
Ok, I was going to pretend that I was the one who figured it out, but I heard it from one of the PCB manufacturers I've been in touch with.
Funny thing. The more I discover about this board, the more expensive it gets. For some reason, I assumed it was two layers (after a quick glimpse on the schematics)
Four layers revs the price up to somewhere around £250+S&H.
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our layers revs the price up to somewhere around £250+S&H.
Not as bad as I thought... what if we got together, say ten people? Would that affect the price?
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niklasni1 wrote:
this board requires an ECS chipset, so an A1000 will not do it. You need an A500+ or A3000. Also an Amber chip from an A3000 if you want the scandoubler.
Would an A600 work?
Nope... Well not without some extreme hardship anyway! All the chips in the A600 are SMT so they don't fit the sockets for the older versions of the chips. It also means they're soldered directly to the A600 mainboard using tiny connections, meaning removal is quite difficult without specialised equipment and/or causing damage to the chips.
An A500+ should be easily come by though, no?
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A600 are SMT so they don't fit the sockets for the older versions of the chips.
I see! Thank you!
An A500+ should be easily come by though, no?
Probably, it's been a while since I saw one up for grabs here. 600s are much easier to find...
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That is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. :cry:
I wish it to be real.
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Now, what we need is someone to clone the A1000 case... any takers? :)
I might be able to reproduce a case with my modeling software. That would allow many plastics or rapid prototyping houses to produce the needed parts from my templates. It would take a bare case and time. Both of which I am terribly short on right now. I have a 1000, but I dont' think I want to strip it down. Maybe I can find a derelict some where.
Plaz
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As somebody with 8 a1ks, i gotta tell you, these machines cases are really fragile at this point.
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Seems odd... People mount their A1200s/A4000s into PC Tower cases to gain room for cooling, modern power supplies, and drive expansion. Now here is a new board that wants you to use the old cases.
Sorry, seems like a bad idea. Even though the retro look is cool, It doesn't make sense to me. The majority of A1000 cases are old, yellow, and hard to come by. Not to mention that the power supplies and floppy drives are 20+ years old.
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>by Olecranon on 2008/5/22 23:28:43
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>Seems odd... People mount their A1200s/A4000s into PC Tower >cases to gain room for cooling, modern power supplies, and >drive expansion. Now here is a new board that wants you to >use the old cases.
I would think he can sell a 1000+ if the power supply was replaced (or replaceable) with a rechargeable li-ion battery w/inverter and connector for lcd. If you are going to make so many hardware upgrades, mine as well go for it all with the latest while maintaining compatibility.
>Sorry, seems like a bad idea. Even though the retro look is >cool, It doesn't make sense to me. The majority of A1000
>cases are old, yellow, and hard to come by. Not to mention >that the power supplies and floppy drives are 20+ years old.
I am sure you can paint the case. I think he's offering alternative boot device or you can always get a floppy simulator (to save on power as well).
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@orange
I think there is one ECS chip in some A500
I'm with you on this one. My first Amiga was an A500 with the ECS business instead of the OCS business.
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I would love to get my hands on something like this. It would be perfect too, because I already have an 030, 882, and ECS chipset going unused in my A2000 (due to the fact that it only works intermittantly)
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This is insane. There's absolutely no way it's practical as a product, but it's still crazy impressive nonetheless.
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I was wondering, how many people would be interested in getting one of these?
If enough of us are interested, I am sure the pbc boards could be bought at a reasonable price (2-300 us$)
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Why this feat was done with ECS instead of AGA is beyond me, sorry...
Apart from this, it looks fantastic.
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@Kristian95
I could go for that, but dollars not pounds of course. Some are missing the point I think, about the A1000 - hello, it is the 'Amiga' and it great to see it get some attention these days. To me it is the best case design ever, still a small foot print today. I wish I could find a PC type case like this. YAWN to towers.
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Zac67 wrote:
Why this feat was done with ECS instead of AGA is beyond me, sorry...
Apart from this, it looks fantastic.
The AGA chips are probably harder to come by, and aren't they surface mounted for the most part in the 1200 and 4000?
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Kristian95 wrote:
I was wondering, how many people would be interested in getting one of these?
If enough of us are interested, I am sure the pbc boards could be bought at a reasonable price (2-300 us$)
I have an extra dead A1000 that I could steal parts from and would love to get one of these boards. I know that it also needs parts from other Amiga models (like an A3000 perhaps), but I am sure I could find the other parts somewhere.
If someone finds a PCB manufacturer that can do a small run that is not ungodly expensive, count me in!
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I'll take one so long as I can find a super clean A1000 to house it in.
I never had the original 1000 and I would buy this in a heartbeat.
I would easily plunk down $750 for a board.
-Alex
Ratte wrote:
Georg Braun (gb97816) released an updated version of his selfmade A1000 mainboard.
The latest version includes an extra adressline on the PLD for further 32 bit memory-expansions.
On the upper left side (under the DIN-VGA-Output) you can see a internal connector to feed in a vga-signal from a "undone" internal graphiccard.
(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4308/1_3938.jpg)
Other (allready known) features:
68030/68EC030 @ 50 MHz support
68881/68882 @ 50 MHz support
(successful tested with up to 60MHz !!)
8MB 32 bit fastmem / 0 waitstaits
ECS-Agnus with 2MB ChipMem
ECS-Denise
Amber-FlickerFixer
realtime-clock
1MB flashmemory for drivers and addons
internal ZorroII connector
IDE-connector
(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4308/1_3940.jpg)
(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4308/1_3939.jpg)
There is also a new expansion for his boarddesign .. 2GB CF-Drive for the frontdoor.
(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4308/1_3746.jpg)
Testrun with 60MHz (SysInfo untruly reports 66Mhz).
For more details (and eagle-files) visit Georgs homepage.
http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/ (http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/)
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I have no experience getting pcb boards done so I wouldn't know where to start... I hope someone who knows more about how to go about doing so can help out at least with advice :)
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I wonder if Acube could be of assistance here.
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trekiej wrote:
I wonder if Acube could be of assistance here.
I doubt it as a number of parts must be harvested from other Amigas in addition to the A1000 I think and most are not installed in a socket, so Acube would have to get these in mass quantities, or have each user that wants a board to find and send to them so they could solder them on to the new mobo.
I don't see how that could work?
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Any chance for a CF card build?
Which is the best way to expand A1000 bus or Zorro2?
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technically speaking you don't need the front slot cf card adapter as the motherboard has an IDE controller :) I figure an IDE to CF adapter should work there...
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one question... WHY ???
I mean... it's not an original A1000
It's not an "improved" amiga...
so.. what is it ? an upgraded mb for an old plastic case ?
sigh... don't we have better things to hope for ?
Tom UK
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It is a NEW mother board. that may carry the amiga legacy for another 20 years or so. when all the original amigas are loong gone...
All hail the designer
and hope something like this goes into production anytime soon...
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amigadave wrote:
I doubt it as a number of parts must be harvested from other Amigas in addition to the A1000 I think and most are not installed in a socket, so Acube would have to get these in mass quantities, or have each user that wants a board to find and send to them so they could solder them on to the new mobo.
I don't see how that could work?
Is there any chance these legacy chips will be replaced so that we don't have to depend on dead Amigas for parts?
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@Fester: I hope some one will make use of some FPGA,s in this area.
I am getting a book on VHDL and have a Xilinx X-board to train myself.
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If all the Rare chips get a socket and the rest soldered or socketed, I believe Acube could help.
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I beseech thee get rid of that barrel battery.
:-)
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Wasn't Jens reimplementing a bunch of the custom Amiga chips so that people could have replacements? Or did that fall apart or something?
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I do not know. I hope that Clone-A is still going.
:-)
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A new addon is on the way ... internal Cirrus Logic GD542x (PicassoII) graphiccard.
More on www.a1k.org (http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=175434).
Picture will be added later ...
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Ratte wrote:
A new addon is on the way ... internal PicassoII graphiccard.
You should mention that the PicassoII is Selfmade aswell! :-o Incredible.
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I am jealous sick of his skills and insight. He might just be the Messiah we've been waiting for.
:bow: respect :bow:
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(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4308/1_3994.jpg)
testrun for the GBA1000-graphiccard in around 2 weeks ...
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Combine this (the Picasso) with an 030-turbo suitable for an A500 (or even A1200) .... :banana:
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be hurry. every year to late for amiga world and users...
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(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4308/1_4009.jpg)
gba1000 rev01 with early prototype graphiccard
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Ratte wrote:
(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4308/1_4009.jpg)
gba1000 rev01 with early prototype graphiccard
Is this new graphic card connected to the GB A1000 flicker fixer output, so that native screens can be passed through and PicassoII screens will be displayed through the same connector for a one monitor solution? That is what it looks like and I hope that is true. Does this PicassoII clone have 2mb or 4mb video RAM?
It will be a great addition to the GB A1000 and I hope most of the 59 builders will also choose to sign up to have one of these graphics cards produced just like our mobo's.
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Is it possible to put on FPGAs and put in ECS source code from the NatAmi developers, if they would be willing to help out? It could possibly be clocked faster too??
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now, I'm curious. why would one want to do that ? :lol:
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Looks great!! Clearly there are some very talented people in the forum..The miniMig also comes to mind. Im sure there are others..
All this stuff is nice..but talk about sucking up your resources/time/money/talent..
Why not focus on getting OS 4 to run on a MAC or anyother Amiga OS for that matter..If everyone one pooled together on one common project Im sure lots of good things could happen
Rich
ny
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Vlabguy1 wrote:
Why not focus on getting OS 4 to run on a MAC or anyother Amiga OS for that matter..If everyone one pooled together on one common project Im sure lots of good things could happen
Rich
ny
My guess would be that most of us like the old hardware and are doing this for a hobby. That's where I'm coming from, I really don't have any interest with running OS 4, but I do enjoy playing with the old hardware and software.
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Granted..I will give you the Hobby thing..but spending thousands, upon thousands of dollars to develope an "improved" classic motherboard goes
way beyond the "hobby" level if you ask me. While its cool and nice to see
seems a bit of a waste(in my opinion)..Don't get me wrong if this new A1000 board is avail. for sale I might consider buying one, if nothing else to support the Amiga.
I think most people in this forum would love to have the Amiga OS running the older Mac hardware..
I for one would absolutely pay $200 for an Amiga OS that runs on my PowerBook G4 17"..and all my other Macs for that matter. :-)
Rich
ny
mdivancic wrote:
Vlabguy1 wrote:
Why not focus on getting OS 4 to run on a MAC or anyother Amiga OS for that matter..If everyone one pooled together on one common project Im sure lots of good things could happen
Rich
ny
My guess would be that most of us like the old hardware and are doing this for a hobby. That's where I'm coming from, I really don't have any interest with running OS 4, but I do enjoy playing with the old hardware and software.
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>Granted..I will give you the Hobby thing..but spending thousands, upon thousands of dollars to develope an "improved" classic motherboard goes way beyond the "hobby" level if you ask me. While its cool and nice to see
seems a bit of a waste(in my opinion)..Don't get me wrong if this new A1000 board is avail. for sale I might consider buying one, if nothing else to support the Amiga.
You could make the same argument against the Mac. Why people spend thousands of dollars on a Mac (and it's add-ons) when they can get a PC which is cheaper and faster and has more standardized hardware and more software than a Mac. I just picked up three for free that someone was about to toss into the trash (2 are 1Ghz+). I am glad you stated it's just your opinion, but why would you support the Amiga if you think it's a waste of time? Also "hobby" is not just one reason-- there are many different types of hobbies. And there are also other reasons to use an Amiga besides being a hobby. I prefer computers that have standardized hardware doing more things rather than software, but Amiga is no longer produced so you can expect prices to be higher to rebuild individually.
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I'd be interested if it had AGA/AAA (;)) and 060/PPC support.
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The Mac thing you wrote makes absolutley no sense.. Macs are still being produced in mass..and much better than a PC or Windoze will ever be, face it.
Sure you can get a PC cheaper, faster..but the OS is DOG WASTE so whats the point? Heck..port the Amiga OS to run on an Intel machine and I will buy one.
And for another thing..I did not bring up the "hobby" thing(mdivancic did above)
Why are you glad that I stated "in my opinion"?
Please list the pupose of the MiniMig, and this new A1000 board? and dont say nostalgia..cuz I get that part..Because its a HOBBY..for those who are developing these boards(just a guess). Uh..I paid$3,300 for my Mac not $10,000 on developeing A1000 replacement MB..a huge difference.
My point is that these talented people, and there are more of them Im sure should really come together on a common project..say like getting the current Amiga OS..3.5, 3.9 and 4.0 running on current(new) hardware. Such as Mac or Intel...mmmm..
Please you dont have to tell me the many reasons to use an Amiga..I have been here for awhile. I bet dollars to donuts that if the Amiga OS was avail for other hardware platforms it would sell and sell well..just look at the Amiga OS on Mac thread..
I know the truth hurts..but thats one of the big problems with this Amiga community..its divided
amigaksi wrote:
>Granted..I will give you the Hobby thing..but spending thousands, upon thousands of dollars to develope an "improved" classic motherboard goes way beyond the "hobby" level if you ask me. While its cool and nice to see
seems a bit of a waste(in my opinion)..Don't get me wrong if this new A1000 board is avail. for sale I might consider buying one, if nothing else to support the Amiga.
You could make the same argument against the Mac. Why people spend thousands of dollars on a Mac (and it's add-ons) when they can get a PC which is cheaper and faster and has more standardized hardware and more software than a Mac. I just picked up three for free that someone was about to toss into the trash (2 are 1Ghz+). I am glad you stated it's just your opinion, but why would you support the Amiga if you think it's a waste of time? Also "hobby" is not just one reason-- there are many different types of hobbies. And there are also other reasons to use an Amiga besides being a hobby. I prefer computers that have standardized hardware doing more things rather than software, but Amiga is no longer produced so you can expect prices to be higher to rebuild individually.
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>The Mac thing you wrote makes absolutley no sense.. Macs are still being produced in mass..and much better than a PC or Windoze will ever be, face it.
>Sure you can get a PC cheaper, faster..but the OS is DOG WASTE so whats the point? Heck..port the Amiga OS to run on an Intel machine and I will buy one.
Just insulting an OS does not constitute a good argument. The point I guess you missed is: Like on the Amiga, the OS routines can be called along with directly using standardized hardware registers, similarly on a PC you can use the OS or bypass it and directly write code that uses the hardware (which is more standardized than a Mac). I guess an example may help-- suppose you wanted to reboot the computer when a person presses the joystick button. You can take a PC and code the following:
In AL,201h
Test AL,16
Jnz NoBoot
Mov AL,FE
Out 64h,AL
NoBoot:
Or you can find the equivalent API calls and/or BIOS calls and do the same.
>And for another thing..I did not bring up the "hobby" thing(mdivancic did above)
>Why are you glad that I stated "in my opinion"?
Because it's NOT a waste of time to many people and that's a fact. I use the Amiga for games, writing/testing external device control stuff, and used to use it for genlock video titling.
>Please list the pupose of the MiniMig, and this new A1000 board? and dont say nostalgia..cuz I get that part..Because its a HOBBY..for those who are developing these boards(just a guess). Uh..I paid$3,300 for my Mac not $10,000 on developeing A1000 replacement MB..a huge difference.
I guess someone more familiar with the manufacturing of these can give you a better cost analysis.
>My point is that these talented people, and there are more of them Im sure should really come together on a common project..say like getting the current Amiga OS..3.5, 3.9 and 4.0 running on current(new) hardware. Such as Mac or Intel...mmmm.....
Which OS does the Amiga Zany Golf run on? And what about that pac-man game that eats the workbench screen before it starts? And what about that game that scrolls the entire display like a wallpaper (as if the OS did not exist)?
>I know the truth hurts..but thats one of the big problems with this Amiga community..its divided
Truth does not hurt if you already live in it. Everyone is an individual and has his desires and that applies to all communities although if the desires are similar it makes for a better more harmonious community.
-
Vlabguy1 wrote:
I think most people in this forum would love to have the Amiga OS running the older Mac hardware..
Rich
ny
No thanks.
-
Opppsss..I apologize to the Windoze OS if I have insulted you in anyway..hehe..
Please, please dont take it personally..that I dont like you. Windoze is power hungry, looks like crap, not very intuitive, security leaks up the wazoo, prone to crashing..etc...shall I go on. On the PC hardware side things are awsome!!
I guess you misunderstood me..I did NOT state that owning, using and AMIGA is a waste of time..I have a few myself as well as some old Commodore stuff, been a fan/owner since the '80s. That being said..I think the MiniMig is great, I think the new A1000 replacement board is great..but I ask WHY..and have not gotten a straight answer..
Check out the thread regarding Amiga OS4 on a Mac..it was quite popular, dont you think??
I agree everyone is an individual(duh)..but we (as an Amiga community) are divided.. and its a big problem, not to mention all the A. Inc crap.
I have been on the PCB manufacuring end of things..its a huge task (re) designing a circuit board and costly, and for what?? Perhaps the designer of the new A1000 board could chime in here, as well as the MiniMig guy..
I ask a simple question WHY?
Did you
amigaksi wrote:
>The Mac thing you wrote makes absolutley no sense.. Macs are still being produced in mass..and much better than a PC or Windoze will ever be, face it.
>Sure you can get a PC cheaper, faster..but the OS is DOG WASTE so whats the point? Heck..port the Amiga OS to run on an Intel machine and I will buy one.
Just insulting an OS does not constitute a good argument. The point I guess you missed is: Like on the Amiga, the OS routines can be called along with directly using standardized hardware registers, similarly on a PC you can use the OS or bypass it and directly write code that uses the hardware (which is more standardized than a Mac). I guess an example may help-- suppose you wanted to reboot the computer when a person presses the joystick button. You can take a PC and code the following:
In AL,201h
Test AL,16
Jnz NoBoot
Mov AL,FE
Out 64h,AL
NoBoot:
Or you can find the equivalent API calls and/or BIOS calls and do the same.
>And for another thing..I did not bring up the "hobby" thing(mdivancic did above)
>Why are you glad that I stated "in my opinion"?
Because it's NOT a waste of time to many people and that's a fact. I use the Amiga for games, writing/testing external device control stuff, and used to use it for genlock video titling.
>Please list the pupose of the MiniMig, and this new A1000 board? and dont say nostalgia..cuz I get that part..Because its a HOBBY..for those who are developing these boards(just a guess). Uh..I paid$3,300 for my Mac not $10,000 on developeing A1000 replacement MB..a huge difference.
I guess someone more familiar with the manufacturing of these can give you a better cost analysis.
>My point is that these talented people, and there are more of them Im sure should really come together on a common project..say like getting the current Amiga OS..3.5, 3.9 and 4.0 running on current(new) hardware. Such as Mac or Intel...mmmm.....
Which OS does the Amiga Zany Golf run on? And what about that pac-man game that eats the workbench screen before it starts? And what about that game that scrolls the entire display like a wallpaper (as if the OS did not exist)?
>I know the truth hurts..but thats one of the big problems with this Amiga community..its divided
Truth does not hurt if you already live in it. Everyone is an individual and has his desires and that applies to all communities although if the desires are similar it makes for a better more harmonious community.
-
With The GFX Card :-o
I would not mind spending 1000 euros on a complete system..
That is just so awesome.
-
Vlabguy1 wrote:
I think the MiniMig is great, I think the new A1000 replacement board is great..but I ask WHY..and have not gotten a straight answer.........
I have been on the PCB manufacuring end of things..its a huge task (re) designing a circuit board and costly, and for what?? Perhaps the designer of the new A1000 board could chime in here, as well as the MiniMig guy..
I ask a simple question WHY?
I doubt that Georg or Dennis will take any of their valuable time to respond to your questions, but I will attempt to give you a simple answer to your "simple question WHY?"
First, the MiniMig was started as a project just to see if Dennis could do it, I mean put all the Amiga custom chip functionality into one FPGA. Once he had succeeded he decided to reduce the size and put it all on just one board to create a small, low cost replacement of the A1000/A500 OCS Amiga. There was so much interest in his work, he finally agreed to release it as open source. So the WHY of the MiniMig in my opinion is two fold. 1. to prove it could be done. 2. to allow hobbyists the ability to create their own Amiga clone with their own hands. It is unclear to me if the MiniMig inspired the NatAmi project, or if the NatAmi was perceived before the MiniMig was announced, but it could be a third point of praise for the MiniMig, that it has inspired others to create other new projects related to the Amiga experience. Lastly, the MiniMig is current hardware to run nostalgic software and eventually some years down the road it will be more difficult to find the original hardware. (that was not nearly as simple as I intended)
Now for the GB A1000 replacement board, the developer/hardware designer obviously likes the original Amiga case design for his own reasons. There are many German fans of the A1k as can be seen by the website dedicated to it, the Phoenix A1000 replacement board that was revived in 2005 and now with the GB A1000 board and continued development of peripherals for both. The Phoenix and the GB A1000 boards provide a huge increase in performance and functionality for the A1000 computer that so many of us are very fond of. The "WHY" is because we enjoy and appreciate the design of the A1000 and want to continue using one. The GB A1000 allows us a way to use them for more things than would be possible otherwise.
As for the Amiga community being divided, that has been a fact of life for many years. There just has not been any ONE thing to come along that has caught the imagination of all of us to work together on, and there probably never will be, but most of us are perfectly capable of being interested in and supporting many different Amiga projects at once.
If all Amiga enthusiasts were the same, maybe we would all be supporting AROS and it would actually be able to run all the older Amiga software and have a whole raft of new AROS software to run as well, or 15,000 A1's would have been produced and sold instead of the few hundred.
-
Dave,
Ok..the MiniMig..and New A1000 replacement..is pretty much just for kicks..to see if it can be done.. :-)..Thats great. And for people who want
to build an Amiga with there own hands..Understandable.
How about a A4000 replacement board..hehe..lol..
I was being a bit sarcastic about the developers of those boards to chime in and comment here..
The whole point that I have been makind since I first commented on this thread is that..its almost a waste of talent..when really we(as a community) should try to move fwd. instead of staying in the past. As you can prob. guess Im not an Amiga gamer, although I do have plenty of Amiga games.
I for one am a huge fan of the A1000 case..and that computer in general. I unfortunetly sold mine sometime back, and do miss her but I made sure she went to a good home in Switzerland(if I remember correctly). I still have a
spare working A1000 MB.
Its a shame there is no common thread/project to bring everyone together and move forward and at the same time keeping the past alive.
Rich
ny
amigadave wrote:
Vlabguy1 wrote:
I think the MiniMig is great, I think the new A1000 replacement board is great..but I ask WHY..and have not gotten a straight answer.........
I have been on the PCB manufacuring end of things..its a huge task (re) designing a circuit board and costly, and for what?? Perhaps the designer of the new A1000 board could chime in here, as well as the MiniMig guy..
I ask a simple question WHY?
I doubt that Georg or Dennis will take any of their valuable time to respond to your questions, but I will attempt to give you a simple answer to your "simple question WHY?"
First, the MiniMig was started as a project just to see if Dennis could do it, I mean put all the Amiga custom chip functionality into one FPGA. Once he had succeeded he decided to reduce the size and put it all on just one board to create a small, low cost replacement of the A1000/A500 OCS Amiga. There was so much interest in his work, he finally agreed to release it as open source. So the WHY of the MiniMig in my opinion is two fold. 1. to prove it could be done. 2. to allow hobbyists the ability to create their own Amiga clone with their own hands. It is unclear to me if the MiniMig inspired the NatAmi project, or if the NatAmi was perceived before the MiniMig was announced, but it could be a third point of praise for the MiniMig, that it has inspired others to create other new projects related to the Amiga experience. Lastly, the MiniMig is current hardware to run nostalgic software and eventually some years down the road it will be more difficult to find the original hardware. (that was not nearly as simple as I intended)
Now for the GB A1000 replacement board, the developer/hardware designer obviously likes the original Amiga case design for his own reasons. There are many German fans of the A1k as can be seen by the website dedicated to it, the Phoenix A1000 replacement board that was revived in 2005 and now with the GB A1000 board and continued development of peripherals for both. The Phoenix and the GB A1000 boards provide a huge increase in performance and functionality for the A1000 computer that so many of us are very fond of. The "WHY" is because we enjoy and appreciate the design of the A1000 and want to continue using one. The GB A1000 allows us a way to use them for more things than would be possible otherwise.
As for the Amiga community being divided, that has been a fact of life for many years. There just has not been any ONE thing to come along that has caught the imagination of all of us to work together on, and there probably never will be, but most of us are perfectly capable of being interested in and supporting many different Amiga projects at once.
If all Amiga enthusiasts were the same, maybe we would all be supporting AROS and it would actually be able to run all the older Amiga software and have a whole raft of new AROS software to run as well, or 15,000 A1's would have been produced and sold instead of the few hundred.
-
But what should that project be then?
ATM no one can't really do any AOS4.0 specific HW, because of the lawsuits. So the only option is to turn towards "classic" OS and HW.
It can be done, as already proven. And with NatMai it can be done and improved on a lot.
So the way I see it, for hobbiest the only way to move forward is to use and improve on classic amiga hw/sw.
I might be wrong though..
-
@Vlabguy1,
Join the NatAmi team and help make the impossible become reality. Or if that is not to your liking there is the MorphOS, or AROS camps. AOS4 is so tied up in legal crap, I can't recommend anyone joining work on it, unless you can complete the Moana project and get it running on any/all PPC Mac hardware. :-D
-
Thanks Dave..
Will check out those possibilites you mentioned. I suppose for me in a perfect world I would really love to see the Amiga OS ported to the Intel side vs the Mac...although the Mac seems logical being PPC based..
Believe me if I ever won the lottery I would really consider investing in any Amiga project that may push it closer to the mainstream..or atleast in the
stream if you know what I mean.
Rich
ny
amigadave wrote:
@Vlabguy1,
Join the NatAmi team and help make the impossible become reality. Or if that is not to your liking there is the MorphOS, or AROS camps. AOS4 is so tied up in legal crap, I can't recommend anyone joining work on it, unless you can complete the Moana project and get it running on any/all PPC Mac hardware. :-D
-
@Vlabguy1
I suppose for me in a perfect world I would really love to see the Amiga OS ported to the Intel side vs the Mac
That's already a reality. Look at www.aros-exec.org, they have a pretty good implementation of AmigaOS (based on 3.1) running on x86.
-
Vlabguy1 wrote:
The whole point that I have been makind since I first commented on this thread is that..its almost a waste of talent..when really we(as a community) should try to move fwd. instead of staying in the past. As you can prob. guess Im not an Amiga gamer, although I do have plenty of Amiga games.
Rich
ny
I know it's not directed at me, but the point I want to make is that staying in the past is EXACTLY what I want from the Amiga community. I see the Amiga comunity as no different than the Atari 800, Commodore 64, or Atari VCS communities. I do not expect the Atari 2600 VCS to "rise from the ashes" and become a viable platform again, but I enjoy all the homebrew hacks and software projects that push the original platform far beyond what it did back in the day. That's what I hope the Amiga becomes. I hope we see coldfire accelerators. I hope we see flickerfixers for Amiga 1000s. I hope we see AGA upgrades for the 1000/2000/3000/500/600. I hope we see quad paula sound, Sonic the Hedgehog running as well as it did on the Sega, Ambermoon re-released in a retail box for US and UK English, a browser that lets a lowy 68K Amiga play youtube videos, a hack that makes OS 3.x look as cool as Vista/Leopard, etc.
Some of that sounds impossible and may even be impossible today, but maybe 10, 20 years from now?
I can wait becuse I know Amiga is a dead, dead, dead platform. I let go of Amiga as a Windows/Linux/Mac competitor long ago. Let AROS pick up that fight. Let Amiga OS 4 come out for Macs. Let Amiga Inc release a plastic kids toy with a built-in Adobe Flash app that looks like a GUI and call it Amiga OS 5. I don't care and never will about any of those things.
-
Terse,
I like all the do it yourself hacks as well.. I love seeing how the limits of the old Amigas are pushed way beyond what people think could ever be done.
Certainly someone can get Amiga OS3.1-4.0 running on a Mac, please dont take this statement as me thinking its a simple task..
Looked at the Aros ..thing eh..not my cup of tea...
Still Amiga OS on a Intel based machine would be really nice
A great OS ..on readily avail. hardware..as cheap or exspensive
as you want..
Rich
ny
Terse wrote:
Vlabguy1 wrote:
The whole point that I have been makind since I first commented on this thread is that..its almost a waste of talent..when really we(as a community) should try to move fwd. instead of staying in the past. As you can prob. guess Im not an Amiga gamer, although I do have plenty of Amiga games.
Rich
ny
I know it's not directed at me, but the point I want to make is that staying in the past is EXACTLY what I want from the Amiga community. I see the Amiga comunity as no different than the Atari 800, Commodore 64, or Atari VCS communities. I do not expect the Atari 2600 VCS to "rise from the ashes" and become a viable platform again, but I enjoy all the homebrew hacks and software projects that push the original platform far beyond what it did back in the day. That's what I hope the Amiga becomes. I hope we see coldfire accelerators. I hope we see flickerfixers for Amiga 1000s. I hope we see AGA upgrades for the 1000/2000/3000/500/600. I hope we see quad paula sound, Sonic the Hedgehog running as well as it did on the Sega, Ambermoon re-released in a retail box for US and UK English, a browser that lets a lowy 68K Amiga play youtube videos, a hack that makes OS 3.x look as cool as Vista/Leopard, etc.
Some of that sounds impossible and may even be impossible today, but maybe 10, 20 years from now?
I can wait becuse I know Amiga is a dead, dead, dead platform. I let go of Amiga as a Windows/Linux/Mac competitor long ago. Let AROS pick up that fight. Let Amiga OS 4 come out for Macs. Let Amiga Inc release a plastic kids toy with a built-in Adobe Flash app that looks like a GUI and call it Amiga OS 5. I don't care and never will about any of those things.
-
@Vlabguy1,
If that is all you really want, run WinUAE and get a Catweasle card to allow use of an Amiga keyboard and joysticks/mouse.
AmigaOS 1.0 to 3.9 has been running on current x86 hardware for years now, and running quite well I might add.
I don't know what runs on AROS, but until it can run everything WinUAE can and do it seamlessly, I am not really interested in it either.
-
Vlabguy1 wrote:
Believe me if I ever won the lottery I would really consider investing in any Amiga project that may push it closer to the mainstream..or atleast in the
stream if you know what I mean.
Rich
Nope, I'm quite sure you would just be broke! :-)
-
Maybe..but it would be fun..Im sure :-)
Rich
ny
mdivancic wrote:
Vlabguy1 wrote:
Believe me if I ever won the lottery I would really consider investing in any Amiga project that may push it closer to the mainstream..or atleast in the
stream if you know what I mean.
Rich
Nope, I'm quite sure you would just be broke! :-)
-
Its up to everyone to use his eagle-files, they are for free.
Are these files still out there? I can't find them on his site. Just curious what everything looks like.
-
I would love to see this jump started again If I could get one of these it would be my first project with SMD..:roflmao:
-
Guess finding (CSG) chips to populate these replacement boards is going to be a huge pain. A4000/1200 replacement board now that.. ;)
FPGA solutions is proberbly the longterm choice, because supply of pin-compatible chips will run out.
-
This is truly awesome and such a unique classic amiga deserves 1500 USD.
I would be glad to buy it if it is for sale.
-
Ufff, very incredible build one Amiga 1000 from scratch, the time and work that he has spent in it. Incredible.
-
Congratulations to the guy who did this.
This is some fantastic PCB design for a single person.
-
Gradius,
The GB A1000 board was developed by Georg Braun (http://www.gb97816.homepage.t-online.de/).
It's a fantastic accomplishment for sure.
-
I still have mine from the 1st batch, and opened it up for a gander this weekend. These things are beautiful. Amazing PCB. If I ever get my damn SID2SID to work, I'll have the courage to move on to this project.
-
I'd be interested in purchasing one of these boards myself. Always loved my old original Amiga 1000 and it's case.
-
Hi also designed and build a 060 accelerator board with 64 megabytes mem, that you just click in the 030 socket.
He is truly amazing. Just imagine what him and Jens could make together.
-
@yssing: actually from what i ve read on a1k forum jens was actively supporting georg in developing this 060 upgrade and in turn the experience won was used to tune up the new commersial 030 accelerator by individual computers. so what could be done has been done too. you are looking at it.
-
nice.. :) didn't know that..
Still would be great with a new 060 card with fast SD RAM