Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: scuzzb494 on May 17, 2008, 12:24:22 PM
-
Hi
I have often wanted to ask this question but never had the guts... Why is it when I am in the workshop on my 4000D on dial up can I not use this forum. The pages just take forever to load up even with bags of memory and a PicassoIV. And when they do load I have to go through the stupid process of refresh after refresh which can take several minutes. And then to top it off... as just, I compose a post just to get dumped out for no reason. I just got a message saying could not post... What a waste of time.
This is not a purposeful moan, but you will appreciate that it takes a certain amount of skill and difficult to obtain hardware to get an Amiga on broadband. Using a modem is a simple option... But when you need help from here you just have to forget it. Just not possible. Just wonder sometimes just who the forum is for... Certainly not for Amiga users with basic kit. Sad that. Or is there another way I have missed.
A4000D 040 PicassoIV IBrowse and Miami
scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com
-
Never had problems using amiga.org with my amigas. If you must use dialup you could try turning off image loading in ibrowse, or alternatively find some ethernet solution for your amiga.
-
sorry dude but when have you asked for help for browsing the forum ? also, having a picasso IV doesn't really mean much cause it's the processor who parse the html and run TCP/IP. also please consider that you're using a horribly outdated browser and a.org is one of the sites which try to keep it as compatible as possible with the older browsers.
surfing the net with an amiga is a pain. bear with it.
-
Hi
I don`t agree.. There is nothing magical about HTML it is the creators of the pages that make it complex. I'm not intending entering into an argument over page content, thats totally the business of the forum, but the truth is when you need help with a slow machine this site creates real problems. You can discuss till the cows come home about the relative aspects of computer hardware, but trust me having a simple page for base Amiga folk wouldn`t be that bad a thing to have... A simple bulletin board answer and question page. Sadly the chat is what most are interested here, and I guess a load of those posting don`t even use Amigas... Us classic guys just got left behind a long time ago.
In essence, what it means is I can`t use this forum with my A4000D on dial up... For one thing I can`t post anyway I just get dumped out.
No matter... I have a work around. You have to when you actually use an Amiga.
PS I can`t ask for help on the Amiga cus it takes for ever to load pages and I can`t post from the 4000D cus even after being logged in I get rejected. Been like that forever.
Apologies for having a horribly outdated browser... I guess as ever we miss the point.
scuzz
-
Hi
This is an Amiga workshop issue... When I am fixing machines and maintaining them. I have base machines set up to communicate in a crude way with the internet and that means dial-up. I have ethernet on the 4000T and A1200. The A1200 is on broadband... But sometimes I just need to log a simple question and I just find this forum unusable.. Sorry.
Its no real matter, cus it means just coming up here and logging onto the old PC and getting the answers I need. Just wish there was a very simple Amiga Classic friendly page in simple text for question and answers.
No worries, seriously, I never expect the modern bloat on pages to work classic side anyway. Have long given up on that.
scuzz
-
Next to my PC I use my 4000 to post here and it works like a charm. I'm on broadband though and I would never want to go back to dial up. The excuse that you find broadband too difficult or expensive for your Amiga is for me quite frankly nonsense. You can buy ethernet cards for your machine new or used and configuring TCP/IP was easy enough.
-
It's quite possible as long as you realize the limitations of the hardware you're using, if you can't do that... well then.. too bad.
-
I don`t agree.. There is nothing magical about HTML it is the creators of the pages that make it complex. I'm not intending entering into an argument over page content, thats totally the business of the forum, but the truth is when you need help with a slow machine this site creates real problems. You can discuss till the cows come home about the relative aspects of computer hardware, but trust me having a simple page for base Amiga folk wouldn`t be that bad a thing to have...
When I had Amiga 1200 and 040 few years ago (now using Pegasos) using this forum was not problem at all.
Your problem probably is that you are using dialup which is bound to be very slow. IBrowse on old Amigas can display a.org very well even on low end machines. Get rid of dialup and get some broadband instead. They are so cheap these days.
Apologies for having a horribly outdated browser... I guess as ever we miss the point.
I was using this forum from IBrowse 1.22 until I updated to 2.4 in the last year but even such old browser was perfectly ok here.
-
OK
Perhaps I wan`t making myself clear .. Sorry
First: I have broadband
Second: I have Amigas on ethernet, PCMCIA, Samba etc etc etc. I have no problem configuring the Amiga to use broadband... sigh
However... When I am working on Amigas in the workshop I have but very very base Amigas to use. Saying that these are A4000ds with PicassoIVs and 040 processor, A1200s with Blizzards but no graphics cards...
With me so far... ?
Now... I could ethernet connect them and set up Samba etc to use my broadband, but really ... My point... You would have thought that anyone with the crudest of Amigas should, could access some online help facility. A simple bulletin board would suffice or newsgroup style answer page. Its not rocket science. The Amiga Org page suffers worse than most forums I frequent. Absolutley loaded with bloat and unecessary graphics that when your up against it you could do without.
This isn`t about hardware, broadband and browsers, its about helping those that need it the most.
As ever though, we drift off into the magical world of modern alternatives... When all I wish is that my humble Amiga could find help... No mind. Seriously. I have a work around... As ever.
scuzz
-
I find this forum one of the most Amiga-browser compatible websites left on the web.
The images cache without problem; the only place of issue is the message icons list on the message post screen. If images are a problem, they can be switched off.
In terms of 'retro experience', remember that the early web was never something a basic machine was suitable for and the term 'world wide wait' was invented for the modem age. Perhaps you can argue that a retro web experience should involve lots of waiting, horrible browser incompatibilities and pages of anim GIFs.
The main way to reduce bloat is to switch to CSS layouts. But there is no Amiga browser with CSS support.
-
This is miles better then another certain forum, wont name names. I have found this place an endless rescorce for help. You can ask these guys anything (even for crappy WinPC's) and i'd gaurentee some sort of reply.
-
Hi
Sorry... Again. I don't agree. The wait was to do with dialup generally and over ambition with web content. Newsgroups are great for messenging. It doesn`t have to be complicated or graphics intensive. Most of the stuff on the pages is just not necessary... like all those stupid symbols under each post and the avatars, or what ever you call them. Just add up the bytes of info for each graphic. Even worse is when folk put all their animated crap on the posts. Honestly. Words are so easy... Specially when your up against it and trying to solve a problem. The forum has become a chat venue ... What I need at times is a helping-hand.
PS I may enjoy my retro experience and its not cus I like living in the past. Its cus it truly is more fun. Modern computing is what generates this interactive chat world online which isn`t really what I muck around with computers for.
Anyway, I seriously have to get back to my Amigas... Too much chat. Bye.
scuzz
-
scuzzb494 wrote:
A simple bulletin board would suffice or newsgroup style answer page. Its not rocket science.
scuzz
and who do you think will read your post on that bulletinboard and help you ? other amiga users surfing the web with their a500s ?
wake up man.
-
Maybe you should learn to use your software? Turn off image loading in ibrowse if the images bother you that much. I'm sure someone suggested this earlier.
-
scuzzb494 wrote:
Hi
Sorry... Again. I don't agree. The wait was to do with dialup generally and over ambition with web content. Newsgroups are great for messenging. It doesn`t have to be complicated or graphics intensive. Most of the stuff on the pages is just not necessary... like all those stupid symbols under each post and the avatars, or what ever you call them. Just add up the bytes of info for each graphic. Even worse is when folk put all their animated crap on the posts. Honestly. Words are so easy... Specially when your up against it and trying to solve a problem. The forum has become a chat venue ... What I need at times is a helping-hand.
PS I may enjoy my retro experience and its not cus I like living in the past. Its cus it truly is more fun. Modern computing is what generates this interactive chat world online which isn`t really what I muck around with computers for.
Anyway, I seriously have to get back to my Amigas... Too much chat. Bye.
scuzz
Sorry Jack but if you can't cope with the fact that online communication is more than 2400,8,n,1 it isn't anyone's fault but your own. Grow up.
:-o :lol: :crazy: :roll: :boohoo: :griping: :roflmao: :argue: :bigcry: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
-
The title of your post is misleading: when I first read it I thought you meant the users on the forum were unfriendly. This is the friendliest forum I belong to.
Your issue seems to be with the nature of the modern internet. I agree: 90% of what the modern internet is being used for is rubbish and unnecessary: pictures, animations, videos (mostly porn and pirated movies)-flash advertising, music theft, stupid online fantasy games, idiots buying virtual properties with virtual personas and real money.
Governments are spending billions upon billions co-developing internet infrastructure so that I can see a video of somebody's cat lifting up the toilet seat before it pees.
Our Australian government has recently caved-in to the fear campaign that unless we spend billions on internet infrastructure we'll be left in the technological stone age. Meanwhile I had to wait 5 1/2 hours for my son to be seen by a doctor at a public hospital where a diagnosis of bacterial meningitis had to be ruled out because we don't have enough money to pay enough doctors to work in the hospital to to treat our kids.
You can apply the same logic to mobile phones: eavesdrop and you'll see most of the conversations are inane: "Hi, what are you doing?" "Nothing, you?" "Not much". "OK see ya"
I only recently got a PC with broadband, before that used an A4000 on dial-up with Ibrowse. Did everything i need to with it including this site which was the fastest to view, but it got so cheap that broadband was worth it. But then I don't give a rats about pictures/porn/movies/music.
-
Today's HTML is not your Grandpa's HTML any more :-D While HTML hasn't changed ALL that much (you can look them up at w3c.org,) there are also now cascading style sheets (CSS) which are not supported, AFIAK, by any 68k Amiga browser.
When I used to browse the Internet on my modem-based Amiga, I had problems mostly due to the serial device I was using versus the modem. Others at the time reported differences in the TCP/IP stack. Now, these weren't directly related to Amiga.org, but general Internet usage overall.
If you have a box Amiga out there in the work shop, see about getting a serial card rather than using the Amiga's internal serial. You'll have a faster and more reliable serial device that way.
If you're using an A1200 out there, get a Netgear 802.11b network card and set up a wireless access point or router in your house. I have used this setup with Miami and AWeb before with no problems.
If your workshop is close enough to the house to run a phone line, put a network card in your work shop 4000 (steal one from the house or get one online) and replace your phone cable run with some CAT5 cable, which will easily carry your phone line and your network. (The maximum length of a CAT5 segment is 100m, end-to-end.)
As for the problem with animated GIFs on the site, use a datatype that allows you to turn off animations or doesn't support animation at all, or disable GIFs in your browser. Most useful images are JPG or PNG, anyway. When I was still using my WarpEngine 4040 with my PIV, animations on websites worked fine, even here.
And finally, have a look at your phone line. There may be some interference on the line causing problems with your page loads. Being able to talk on the phone without hearing noise is irrelevant as we cannot discern phase shifts that the modem can. Try testing the dial-up at other points in the house, assuming this phone line is connected to the house wiring. Disconnect extraneous devices and try the dial-up.
Just for shyts and giggles I put my 060-based 4000 online with a USRobotics 56k Sportster. Forum works fine with the latest demo release of IBrowse, Warp Datatypes, and Miami. Being that I do not know where you are (and hence the quality of your phone system -- some countries still use twine rather than 26 gauge copper or better) or at what speed you're connecting, I do not have much else to offer.
So onto the next curiosity. If someone running a simple dial-up BBS would be helpful, maybe you could set on up. Run it on a machine with network and dial-up capability and offer two or more nodes (via modem and telnet.) Attract some users there and there you go. Offer a front-end to news groups and help get them livened back up. Offer text-based browsing (ala Lynx) which works very well (latest version on Solaris) with A.org, with the exception of bad cookie roots, and you will miss out on the emoticons most of the users use in posts, so you may take some posts out of context.
For that matter, http://www.molgen.mpg.de/~alynx/
Okay, that's all I have. Hope things work out for you. This forum is exceptionally valuable.
-
stefcep2 wrote:
The title of your post is misleading: when I first read it I thought you meant the users on the forum were unfriendly. This is the friendliest forum I belong to.
Really? You say that after reading the tone of replies in this very posting?? I'd hate to see what other forums you belong to.
-
Miami & Ibrowse 2.3 works great on my A4000/040, 2+16MB ram, Voodoo 3000 + PCI netcard. Amiga.org and a few other sites are running just perfectly here :-)
-
taunusand wrote:
Miami & Ibrowse 2.3 works great on my A4000/040, 2+16MB ram, Voodoo 3000 + PCI netcard. Amiga.org and a few other sites are running just perfectly here :-)
With all the replies like this, I'd say it was a PEBCAC.
-
PEBCAC :-?
-
:-D
-
pebcac- problem exists between computer and chair
there are people here who have used and are using amigas to view and use this site. this guy is having problems, but he thinks the problems are with the site
-
I think Scuzz has been quite clear that the problem is not with the site per se, but with the site only when using a slower service (ie dialup) and/or lower end machines. It's a valid point, especially - as Scuzz points out - for users with low end machines/connections, which is perhaps not such a small percentage of the demographic of the users of this website, compared to generic (eg PC/Mac user) websites.
Perhaps there _should_ be an option to minimise content on the website, eg text only mode.
If you haven't visited Scuzz's site (http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/), I suggest you do. You might appreciate that this guy is not an inexperienced Amiga user, knows what to expect from its performance, and is just making a suggestion which could be useful for low end users.
Regards
Rich
-
Now... I could ethernet connect them and set up Samba etc to use my broadband, but really ... My point... You would have thought that anyone with the crudest of Amigas should, could access some online help facility. A simple bulletin board would suffice or newsgroup style answer page. Its not rocket science. The Amiga Org page suffers worse than most forums I frequent. Absolutley loaded with bloat and unecessary graphics that when your up against it you could do without.
It sounds like maybe you found a niche market and you could set up a website that is more or less a text only forum.
I think asking to make a text only version of this site would be a lot of work, but I could be wrong.
The other option, as pointed out, is already available and is built into your web browser for cases just as your are talking about (slow dialup) and it is a little check box to turn off loading of grahics which make it..... text only :-D Which I think is what you are asking for anyway?? :-? So there is a solution already I think.
Lets layout the options.
1. Turns off loading of graphics -- You get a text based version of A.org!! Yay!!!
2. Get the A.org owners to write a script(s) to create a "switch" to make it possible to turn the site to text based and graphics based at the users will. -- seems like a lot of work but I don't know.
3. Start a "NEW" simple text based (dialup friendly) site for help.
Seems like option 1 is the best, but????
-
Terse wrote:
stefcep2 wrote:
The title of your post is misleading: when I first read it I thought you meant the users on the forum were unfriendly. This is the friendliest forum I belong to.
Really? You say that after reading the tone of replies in this very posting?? I'd hate to see what other forums you belong to.
Except for this thread ;-)
-
scuzz
Over at Amigaworld.net there is a pda page which has reduced overhead to load faster over slower connections (pda.amigaworld.net). This is certainly an option for dial-up connections too. I looked for a similar A.org page but it may not exist. Maybe this is the solution that you are looking for?
-
Just my 2 cents....
Even when I'm on windows with 6mb DSL A.org has been responding slower than normal lately. Not a big deal, I just have to hit refresh once in a while. I'm guessing the web host system is getting over worked.
Plaz
-
Boot_WB wrote:
I think Scuzz has been quite clear that the problem is not with the site per se, but with the site only when using a slower service (ie dialup) and/or lower end machines. It's a valid point, especially - as Scuzz points out - for users with low end machines/connections, which is perhaps not such a small percentage of the demographic of the users of this website, compared to generic (eg PC/Mac user) websites.
Perhaps there _should_ be an option to minimise content on the website, eg text only mode.
Oh my God - a website loads slower on dialup than on broadband!
Someone get Tim Berners-Lee on the Hotline, quick!
-
Until last year, I logging in with dial-up on a similar spec machine and the same software as you. There are a few tweaks you may be un-aware of. The problems you mentioned:
"..refresh after refresh..."
I'm not sure why you need to do this. It reminds me of the sluggish behavior I experience if I leave Javascript Support ENABLED. This slows browsing by a factor of 4 even with a high-speed connection. Java script isn't required here.
"..dumped out for no reason.."
This has been known for some time. It seems to come from not logging off every time. I still get stung by this, but only rarely now. Two proceedures help help greatly: 1. Actively log off every time you log in. 2. Just before hitting the Submit key, select something on the page and choose "View link in new window". If that window shows that you are still logged on (at the top), switch back to the posting window and Submit. If not, log back in and then submit. Beats loosing your post.
I have to agree with most here, Amiga.org is great. Thanks to all who make it possible!
-
Hi
[ quote ]
Sorry Jack but if you can't cope with the fact that online communication is more than 2400,8,n,1 it isn't anyone's fault but your own. Grow up.
[ end quote ]
Sorry for the late reply, I was in my Amiga workshop mending an A500 for someone. I spend a load of time in my Amiga workshop amongst a whole bag of Amigas and I have to dodge around with workshop space as I have to bunt and shunt machines in and out to get the most practical use. I do need on a number of occassions to access help lines for guidance. I have long held the view that unless I need a complex and otherwise unanswered question I would not ask here from the workshop. Often cus I get responses like that. After all these years of using and continuing to use the Amiga I have learnt how to use every resource possible to assist and help. And yes I could accept that all this modern bloat on pages is necessary.. Maybe... But my point is that a base Amiga needing assistance from any Tom Dick or Harry with limited knowledge is going to find this site impossible to use. Sorry.
As I said yesterday I can`t even post a message... The site rejects me. I have no idea why... Its the same with my Win98 machine which I use upstairs for downloading stuff. And its not firewall issues.. And there is no hardwire firewall on a USRobotics. [ And the phone line is a clear as a whistle and I have a serial card in the 4000D... Goodness me I'm quite adapt at using dial-up ]
You can say what you like here, but the truth is that when I am shunting machines into slots to get running I still have to come up here to get a post on this forum. And I think that's a shame. And that is why this forum can be so unfriendly to the Amiga... If its putting off folk like me then I guess you can make your own mind up...
Don`t worry, I get my answers in the end. Usually from tech heads without the bloat. Also Groups and Newsgroups are magic. And after all this time I know a great band of Amiga folk that can help. Sorry... I grew up with my Amiga, though thank goodness, if being here is what being grown up is all about then perhaps I'm glad I'm not all grow'd up.
You have fun... I certainly do. Back to the workshop.
PS I only need the words... Text. Amazing how efficient a word is.. Animated gifs don't give me jack. A line of text is often all I need.. Been doing text on my computers since.. er thinks 1981.... and I still have working my computer from 1981. [ not on the internet though... giggles ]
scuzz
Not quite old enough.
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com
-
Hi
Two images of 4000s I have in the Workshop...
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/car_0406/car_1606_227.jpg
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/a4000d_day/scuzz_may09_04.jpg
I also have set up all the time an A600, 2 x A1200s, A500 and at a pinch an A2000, but that I have to move into space. These are my base Amiga tools which I use generally all the time.
Upstairs I have my A4000T, A1200 tower and my A1200 heavily expanded on broadband... But I have to climb the stairs from the workshop.
scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com
-
scuzzb494 wrote:
Upstairs I have my A4000T, A1200 tower and my A1200 heavily expanded on broadband... But I have to climb the stairs from the workshop.
so all this fuss was about climbing up that stairs ? get used to it, its good for your health ! :lol:
I believe this topic was brought up before and wayne has mentioned that current configuration is the best for both users (viewing the site with the PC and amiga). we should be grateful to them keeping the site as is. anything more, its up to their discretion.
-
Are you using that MultiFace card for your modem? What TCP/IP stack?
-
Being thrown out of a website is annoying but you keep on complaining about all the bloat. Personally I don't find A.org bloated at all but you can turn image loading off in Amiga browsers but you don't react to that hint here at all.
Maybe you could add a text only forum part to your website if you think you have found a niche hole in the market? If there's really a demand you should have a solid user base in due time. Personally I think there's no demand.
Oh and please stop saying sorry for having an opinion; it's annoying and patronizing.
-
Hi
>so all this fuss was about climbing up that stairs ? get >used to it, its good for your health
If you knew my medical condition you would not find that at all funny... ha ha
scuzz
-
Hi
>Oh and please stop saying sorry for having an opinion; >it's annoying and patronizing.
You stop being annoying and patronizing. Stop picking holes in argument just so you make yourself look superior. You really have no idea... Honestly. My whole argument here is about classic Amiga use, as ever, SORRY. I am a classic Amiga user. I live in an era that is a touch out of phase with what is going on today, SORRY. I apologise for my world, and I apologise for troubling you. SORRY. OK. As ever I wish I had never brought up the subject... Amiga.. OS3... Dial-up... Classic kit... Seems simple enough to me.. But hey.. As ever I'll go back to my interest. Its not about switching stuff off, its about supporting a very very small quarter of the community that still use their Amigas as was... SORRY.
Point taken on the niche market though. Dunno why I didn`t think about it before. I'll disappear off into the abyss then and wallow around in my own classic world of Amiga. Good idea that.
What can I say. Bye.
Can you close this thread [ please ]
scuzz SORRY
-
Hi scuzz, I know you asked for this thread to be closed, but maybe I can offer a bit of help, maybe. OK, when you say 'refresh after refresh', do you mean that the screen re-draws many times before finally 'settling down' ? A.org does this to me on my A1200T as well. But the inability to post puzzles me. I am using AWeb APL with Genesis from OS3.9, I really don't seem to have the degree of problems that you have. Granted, after I click 'Reply', I usually go and get some coffee, and when I come back, all of the ?!#@&*! .GIFs have finally loaded.. It may be some trouble for A.org to do, but it really wouldn't hurt to have a text-only, or at least a 'lite' version... Not everyone has xx GHz processors to surf the net.. (typing this on my 633Mhz Celeron running Xandros... Click, wait 2 minutes, repeat... :) Edit; No, I am not a hypocrite, my Xandros machine was the easiest to get to... (Nursing a messed up knee, no stair-climbing for me)
Feel free to PM me if you want to lay this to rest ...
-
@skuzz
I haven't read all the posts to your question, srry. I'm just wondering if you realize that a.org is built using Xoops. Xoops CMS was designed by the PC community and it's target audience are modern PC users with enough processing power to process relatively complex pages. Even a Xoops page with zero content (text/images) would be a stretch for a 50MHz a4000 to process.
HTML pages have to be highly optimized to make practical for viewing on an Amiga, and Xoops is no good for that. It's not really a fault of the a.org team, it's just a consequence of most CMS systems these days presuming users are using relatively modern PC. If a.org were to switch to a "lightweight" CMS, such as http://www.solucija.com/ coupled with an equally lightweight forum system like http://punbb.informer.com/, then maybe you could view a.org more effectively. But I guess such a switch is out of the question.
We have to face the fact that classic Amigas are just not up to the challenge of viewing content rich websites these days.
:cry:
-
People have given you some valid tips here and you don't even have the curtousy to answer them properly; for example the image loading which will greatly reduce stress on your modem. Do you even want any help or are you just here whine about you so called arguments?
What I meant about the "sorry" part is that when you use it in your posts, they don't mean actual sympathy but are used to condescend people. It's you who's been feeling superiour with your "sorry" you don't get my point attitude. And your last reaction here is totally childish and in my book out of line.
I applaud you for repairing Amigas and your effort for the Amiga but I hope that you don't have this attitude towards the people you do the repair work for.
So indeed can a moderator please close this topic as I won't be bullied into a childish fight?
-
So indeed can a moderator please close this topic as I won't be bullied into a childish fight?
Sounds like a plan to me.
-
First of all, sorry for the delay getting around to responding to this issue. No one brought it to my attention, and in the preparation for a new job starting tomorrow, I had not noticed it until now.
That being said, I'm also terribly sorry that you find this site to be so "amiga unfriendly". I've tried everything I could over the years to keep it usable on our antiquated machines and as you might not realize, backwards compatibility is incredibly difficult for a machine that isn't being made or it's browsers updated (with any real sense) any longer.
Also consider the fact that actual Amiga-based browsers make up less than 10% of our users, most of those using emulators such as Amiga Forever to access the site.
So the question becomes, do I keep the site usable by the vast majority who're now using Windows, Linux, or Macs, or do I go overboard trying to make the site less usable for the sake of the VERY few remaining users reading the site on actual Amigas?
See the dilemma?
Wayne
-
@Wayne
I see what you are saying up until you say "less usable"
Surely making the site simpler for older machines would in fact still make it "more usable" for better equipped machines
Efficiency and cutting out bloat should make things smoother on all machines I'd imagine
-
HopperJF wrote:I see what you are saying up until you say "less usable"
Surely making the site simpler for older machines would in fact still make it "more usable" for better equipped machines
Actually, the problem is that as the real world moves on, browsers like Internet Explorer actually begin losing compatibility for older HTML programming standards like HTML 3.0 that have been defunct for what, 8 years now?
The problem is, the world is moving onwards and upwards, while the Amiga simply isn't keeping up. Remember, we did try to upgrade a few years ago and the forums themselves really did become completely unusable by most everyone, including older, slower PCs.
Trust me, if I could redo the site to use newer standards (most of which are faster/better/easier), I'd happily do so. This is another one of the situations where I'm damned either way.
Wayne
-
marcfrick2112 wrote: Not everyone has xx GHz processors to surf the net.. (typing this on my 633Mhz Celeron running Xandros... Click, wait 2 minutes, repeat... :) Edit; No, I am not a hypocrite, my Xandros machine was the easiest to get to... (Nursing a messed up knee, no stair-climbing for me)
:-?
I got a 133mhz pc with 64mb memory, win98 + Firefox 2, and the site loads in a jiffy.
-
Sometimes I wonder if so many Amiga users, who constantly proselytize about the Amiga's inherently great multimedia capabilities, wouldn't be happier with a green screen and CP/M.
It's 2008 for crying out loud.
-
NoFastMem wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if so many Amiga users, who constantly proselytize about the Amiga's inherently great multimedia capabilities, wouldn't be happier with a green screen and CP/M.
It's 2008 for crying out loud.
/me puts hand up
Yes I am happier with my Televideo TS-803H. Actually I've posted to Amiga.org on one of my CP/M systems before :crazy:
-
redrumloa wrote:
NoFastMem wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if so many Amiga users, who constantly proselytize about the Amiga's inherently great multimedia capabilities, wouldn't be happier with a green screen and CP/M.
It's 2008 for crying out loud.
/me puts hand up
Yes I am happier with my Televideo TS-803H. Actually I've posted to Amiga.org on one of my CP/M systems before :crazy:
Can't be that unfriendly then, surely an Amiga beats a CP/M, especially one as beasty as scuzz's, sounds like its unrelated to the system itself and more to his connection maybe?
-
My 2 cents. I am using Ibrowse 2.4 on 56k dialup and my
amiga 3000 with 16megs and Picasso IV.
Yes it is slow , but it works fine.
Amiganaut
-
@ Wayne
"..actual Amiga-based browsers make up less than 10% of our users, most of those using emulators.."
WOW! I always thought the percentages were higher than that. Can you disclose the actual number of us (disillusioned fools, grin) still logging on with real Amigas? How many with emulators? Just curious.
My 2 cents worth: This site is dedicated to and about Amiga, it should always be usable by real Amigas, even if our numbers have fallen somewhat. Those with "modern" computers and OSes can go anywhere on the net without hindrance. It's telling that the other 90% of user's choose to come here, says a lot about the quality of this site and the community here.
It also helps to illuminate the seemingly majority opinion that Amigas are for hobby and gaming, not everyday use.
Good luck with the new job.
-
Is there any way to give two Xoops instances access to the same database back-end? That way you could have the current interface for old browsers, and the new interface for modern systems. A little PHP logic could allow automagic selection or a user-set preference, or just differences in the URL.
-
I don't understand why so many people need to be so nasty here instead of trying to help. I think a text-only version or something similar for low-bandwidth users is a great idea, similar to what the English Amiga Board has just implemented with the "Mobile" version.
I must admit, I haven't used my Amiga online yet so I don't know how much trouble it would be, but I use this site from a PC with dialup and have no problems with it, so I don't think it's a speed related problem.
I hope you find a way around the problem and can post from your A4000 soon.
-
Cammy wrote:
I don't understand why so many people need to be so nasty here instead of trying to help. I think a text-only version or something similar for low-bandwidth users is a great idea, similar to what the English Amiga Board has just implemented with the "Mobile" version.
I must admit, I haven't used my Amiga online yet so I don't know how much trouble it would be, but I use this site from a PC with dialup and have no problems with it, so I don't think it's a speed related problem.
I hope you find a way around the problem and can post from your A4000 soon.
Hear hear.
I'm amazed at actually how UNFRIENDLY this supposedly Amiga forum can be sometimes (in both senses!)
Looking at some of the posts from people, you would think it was a Win XP problem ripping into the poor little Amiga user trying to explain to him why the site doesn't work properly on his little machine.
But instead people should realise that Scuzz is in an increasing minority, a special minority we should be proud of who actually STILL ACTIVELY USE THEIR REAL AMIGAS AFTER ALL THIS TIME!!!
It is easy to sit there comfortably in front of your Linux/Windoze box saying it's the hardware but remember this site was built for AMIGA users and we should help the guy in any way we can since he is more of an Amiga user than many of us!
Unfortunately he hasn't posted for a while after bidding his farewell so it seems too late and Amiga.org seems to have lost a seemingly very dedicated Amiga repairer.
-
I must say that some people seem a little on the defensive. Anywho...A few years back, my bordom go the better of me and I tried browsing a.org using Lynx (a text only browser) and it seemed quite usable. I discovered that there is an Amiga version of Lynx, ALynx (http://www.molgen.mpg.de/~alynx/), so perhaps you could give that a go. Another idea would be to investigate purchasing a router, rigging up a data point or two in your workshop and then setting up a machine in your workshop that is dedicated to posting online.
-
The problem here is that scuzz wasn't really looking for a solution.
-
I don't speak for Wayne obviously, so this is just my opinion. Wayne's opinion may vary by a wide margin.
My 2 cents worth: This site is dedicated to and about Amiga, it should always be usable by real Amigas, even if our numbers have fallen somewhat. Those with "modern" computers and OSes can go anywhere on the net without hindrance. It's telling that the other 90% of user's choose to come here, says a lot about the quality of this site and the community here.
I appreciate what you are saying in theory, but in practice it is extremely impractical. Think about it, it is now 2008 and historical Amiga browsers are built on mid 90's technology. I am a huge retro fan, I use my Commodore 128 all the time. However, it would be silly to expect C= forums like Commodore128.org and Lemon64 to make their sites friendly to C64/128 native web browsers. Web technology moves on while our ancient orphaned platforms do not.
-
We can agree to disagree, I guess. Since you quoted me, I felt compelled to respond.
Our points of view seem seperated by a canyon. Some points:
1 I still happily and productively use my Amiga for nearly everything, including surfing the web. While I appreciate Amiga.org as an Amiga friendly site, it does not form the borders of my online horizon. I surf everywhere with Amiga. In fact, I bravely use Amiga on sites where I would fear to tread with Windows for fear of infection. (Grin!) The only sites I avoid are those that are prideful of cutting edge standards and video codecs (U-toob, Google Earth, etc).
2 I don't see technical difficulty leaving this site as is. I certainly don't want to marginalize the hard work that goes into all web sites, especially one as comprehensive as this one. (Thanks again guys.) My fear is Wayne and company may someday grow tired of old HTML and hanker after the latest & greatest web technology. That's human desire, not a technical roadblock. The technical sophistication, content, accessability, moderation, and style of Amiga.org is very nicely matched to our purpose. (Again, thank you!)
3 My Amiga is not "retro", it is the way I want to compute. Period. I do enjoy (and collect) some retro technology more than most people, but Amiga is not nostalgic for me. You make the comparison to a C128. I can't see it. The Amiga OS (and hardware, too) is vastly more powerful, capable, and sophisticated. I admittedly have little experience with Commodore 64/128, but the only commonallity I see between the two is the manufacture's logo. In short, I'm not willing to hang up my guns yet. I don't think I'm the only one.
Reading back over what I just wrote, it even sounds hard line to me. I think I'm responding to a tide I feel here from other users. It seems many members (the majority?) want to speed my world into history. We've all seen negative and sarcastic posts advising newbies to limit their exploration to gaming and hobbying. Others have actually jeered the notion of still seriously using an Amiga as the main computer. Though I don't understand pure gamers and collectors, I'm glad everyone is here.