Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Jaruzel on August 13, 2003, 07:05:06 PM

Title: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: Jaruzel on August 13, 2003, 07:05:06 PM
I can't wait any longer. Still no AmigaOS4... which for me means no AmigaOne. (I'm not a linux fan).

So it is with sadness I bid you all goodbye. I haven't even been logging into Amiga.org for about 3 weeks now, so the writing has already been on the wall.

I need to move on with my life, and once again put my Amiga-Love back in the closet...

It's been fun.

-Jar.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: seer on August 13, 2003, 07:08:57 PM
Why leave Aorg ? I haven't used an real Amiga in years only WinUAE, I stay here to keep a bit in touch with the great community.. Granted, the golden days are over, the community is divided, but overal, these folks are ok, they help even if you have a "stupid PeeCee problem"..
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: bloodline on August 13, 2003, 07:10:20 PM
Quote

Jaruzel wrote:
I can't wait any longer. Still no AmigaOS4... which for me means no AmigaOne. (I'm not a linux fan).

So it is with sadness I bid you all goodbye. I haven't even been logging into Amiga.org for about 3 weeks now, so the writing has already been on the wall.

I need to move on with my life, and once again put my Amiga-Love back in the closet...

It's been fun.

-Jar.


Awww... come on!! You've still got AROS :-)
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: amigamad on August 13, 2003, 07:20:24 PM
Why not buy a pegasos instead .And does this mean your selling your amigas. :-)
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: ksk on August 13, 2003, 07:27:47 PM
@Jar

Check the other alternative before you leave.

People say it feels and looks just like an Amiga.

(but it's just a "Commodore" compatible, like it is said at morphos.net )    :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: cecilia on August 13, 2003, 07:35:30 PM
yeah, there are alot of choices right now. why give up. I've had my hands on a pegasis with MorphOS. it's fast and very cool indeed! and you can run several programs you already own AS IS!
plus, there are a few programs made especially for MorphOS.
I'm using WinUAE on my laptop. works great. and i still have my original amiga.

why give up now?????
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: BADHead on August 13, 2003, 07:59:04 PM
if you are going to go, go and don't look back.Iam going to hang about for OS4 and if things don't improve after the release it will not be long before i call it a day.I have no real desire to be one of the minority anymore waiting years for software to be ported and games,drivers e.t.c.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: bloodline on August 13, 2003, 08:18:44 PM
Quote
if you are going to go, go and don't look back.Iam going to hang about for OS4 and if things don't improve after the release it will not be long before i call it a day.I have no real desire to be one of minority anymore waiting years for software to be ported and games,drivers e.t.c.


Other than the last 3 years... :-)
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: Kees on August 13, 2003, 08:25:54 PM
I can't blame you for beeing tired of waiting ...

But what has been said above makes sence ... You could go for the Pegasos or just wait a little longer and get OS4.

We have waited so long for new hard and software and now that things start rolling you leave ? ...

I think you need to give abit more thought and stay with us ... :-)
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: meerschaum on August 13, 2003, 08:34:33 PM
I genuinely hope you come back when MOS is more mature and you find your place among the Peg users.

@everyone else

this is a prime example of why Genesi is 'NOT" destroying this community... they are in fact keeping people here who might otherwise leave. Therefore they are the force of good :)
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: ksk on August 13, 2003, 08:38:54 PM
@meerschaum

"they are in fact keeping people here who might otherwise leave. "

Including developers.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: alx on August 13, 2003, 09:46:54 PM
As seer said, there are plenty of people here who aren't intending to get new Amigas.  Besides, there is now one concrete product and OS4 is clearly nearing completion.  Why not just hang around and see what happens?  See what people think of OS4 when it's out.  If you're desperate for an Amiga fix, then I'll grudgingly admit you could get a Peg (but you'll be kicking yourself when OS4 comes out :-P )
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: redrumloa on August 13, 2003, 09:59:32 PM
@Jaruzel

I genuinely hope you change your mind, we need good people like you around here :-)

I came to a similar conclusion as you almost a year ago, but instead I bought a Pegasos. I have not regreted it. You should consider it. Just a thought.

Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: amigamad on August 13, 2003, 10:53:40 PM
Anyway i waited for about eleven months for my a1 and i have no choice but to wait for os4 .As your tired of waiting you should go for a pegasos it has plenty of support and is very compatable with existing amiga software.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: iamaboringperson on August 13, 2003, 11:11:20 PM
Quote
I can't wait any longer. Still no AmigaOS4... which for me means no AmigaOne. (I'm not a linux fan).
You wont even try MorphOS? is that it, you quit?

Quote
So it is with sadness I bid you all goodbye. I haven't even been logging into Amiga.org for about 3 weeks now, so the writing has already been on the wall.
I cant see a reason to 'leave', amiga.org is for people who use 1meg A500's too, you don't need an amigaone, I don't have one, and i think using amiga.org is fine.

Quote
I need to move on with my life, and once again put my Amiga-Love back in the closet...
Again, no need.

Some people don't seem to realise that the amiga is about more than just everyone having AmigaOS 4, if it was about that, where would the other amigas go, if not amiga.org

is a windows based forum only about windows-XP?
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: Jose on August 13, 2003, 11:50:53 PM
Hmm, are you able to leave the Drug so easily? :-D

"I need to move on with my life, and once again put my Amiga-Love back in the closet..."

Your life didn't need to not move on because of the Amiga! 8-)  But it's true, one stops doing a lot of stuff because of this.  I've wondered many times if te time one spends on the computer (Amiga) is worth it, and if I wouldn't rather be doing something better for myself and more enjoying.
I think this is waht happens to everyone in many other things too.
Has any of you experienced staying  apart for a while and then the interest is kinda much less and different, and you view it with different eyes?  
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: xeron on August 14, 2003, 12:17:03 AM
I don't understand why waiting has to be something that bothers you or takes your time. If you want to take a look at OS4 before deciding between it and MorphOS (or indeed, nothing), just forget about it until its out.

Theres a big world out there... go.. enjoy... be freeee!

If you take a look at AmigaOS 4 when it comes out (or, indeed, decide it sucks, but decide to give MorphOS a look), then you'll probably come back, and we'll all still be here. Hopefully by then, we'll all have stopped bitching at each other, too :-D
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: takemehomegrandma on August 14, 2003, 12:26:21 AM
@ iamaboringperson

Quote
I cant see a reason to 'leave', amiga.org is for people who use 1meg A500's too, you don't need an amigaone, I don't have one, and i think using amiga.org is fine.


Heck, shouldn't some interest in the Amiga platform be enough to hang around? ;-) And there is allways the b-plan ... :-P
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: artman on August 14, 2003, 12:31:25 AM
@Jaruzel

Don't give up yet!  Stick around for a while a see what happens.  Might be something that totally surprises you.  I've been living in the past for years now, with my Classic Boxes.  Damn good entertainment and yep, I still find out something new about them now and then.  I'm waiting for OS4 too, hope it comes out, but if it don't, then I'm still having fun, just slower fun on a 68K machine! :-P
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: bhoggett on August 14, 2003, 12:44:36 AM
@Jaruzel

Well, I can't say I blame you.  I'm only hanging around through force of habit myself, and in contrast to most others, I don't even have anything to look forward to.  I have no interest in buying a Pegasos or an AmigaOne, while AROS looks years away from being "ready for prime time" as they say. Any other possible solutions are so vague as to not even qualify for vapour classification.

My Amiga use is now limited to my daily "Tales of Tamar" turns, and that's it. I have no further use for Amiga software, and I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future.

Life moves on.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: iamaboringperson on August 14, 2003, 12:47:05 AM
Quote

takemehomegrandma wrote:
@ iamaboringperson

Quote
I cant see a reason to 'leave', amiga.org is for people who use 1meg A500's too, you don't need an amigaone, I don't have one, and i think using amiga.org is fine.


Heck, shouldn't some interest in the Amiga platform be enough to hang around? ;-) And there is allways the b-plan ... :-P

Well ok, i agree, even if Amiga Inc. did not exist, that is no reason to not visit amiga.org, It's for people with an interest in Amiga
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: Cravan on August 14, 2003, 01:02:42 AM
I agree with Bill, but I don't even use my A1200 anymore. I don't know why I'm here really. AOS4.0 does not interest me, neither does Pegasos. I thought AmigaDE was a great idea, but that seem as realistic as the A\Box was (yes, I was hoping for that one too!) I was considering perhaps buying a handheld PalmOS thingy but AmigaDE-programs (run anywhere!) doesn't seem to work on those even! (sorry for all the exclamation marks) well...who cares anyway?

Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: tonyw on August 14, 2003, 01:12:52 AM
Man, you giving up ALREADY? Can't you just wait another two weeks?

tony

PS: I think I'll start an anti-AROS rant to counter bloodline's pro-AROS rants.


Until I can run my existing Amiga 68k binaries on AROS, it's vapour. There, it's out. Now I feel better.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: Targhan on August 14, 2003, 01:23:55 AM
Just don't forget your roots, and we all wish you a fond farewell.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: bhoggett on August 14, 2003, 02:09:30 AM
I should add that I do have a geeky kind of interest in AmigaOS4 and MorphOS, but since I'm never likely to own the hardware required to run them they are never likely to have more than curiosity value for me.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: WarPiper on August 14, 2003, 03:17:13 AM
@ Iamaboringperson

Quote
You wont even try MorphOS? is that it, you quit?


Man it’s not just a matter of trying MorphOS, don’t forget it’s also a matter of having to buy the hardware to run MorphOS.

I am sure buy the way some of the MorphOS gang goes on that its a nice OS, but if it was made for the X86 where I didn’t have to spring so much for the hardware, I am sure that she/he would have it on her/his system in a heart beat.

Some people just dont see that the expenditure for a system just to wait and see which direction it will go whenever it finally starts to go may be worth it, besides who the hell wants to sit around and wait for every damn thing to come to pass when the rest of the world is passing them by; by leaps and bounds.

@ JARUZEL
THOUGH ITS SAD TO SEE THAT THE AMIGA IS LOSING ANOTHER USER, I MUST SAY THAT I AM GLAD TO SEE THAT NOT EVERY ONE IS JUST SITTING ON THEIR ASS WAITING AND HOLDING THEIR BREATH FOR THE NEXT COMPUTER MESSIAH TO ARRIVE.

GOOD LUCK IN WHAT EVER COMPUTER PLATFORM YOU MAY CHOSE
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: ronybeck on August 14, 2003, 03:25:42 AM
Quote
So it is with sadness I bid you all goodbye.


That's nice.   You really needed to tell the world that your leaving?  The bandwidth I wasted in reading this could have gone to some poor Internet Starved Afghann :-D

Please think of the Afghans :-P
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: JoannaK on August 14, 2003, 03:31:28 AM
Hi Jarruzel

I can tell you from experince.. it's quite possible to come back if other options are not your liking. Just put all that stuff in closet for now (or sell them if you'll really need the $$$). Look for altenativies and spend time with them.

Considering you don't like Linux too much there are really not so many other end-user systems to look at. About only real alternativies are Mac (OsX, that is essentially MacOs compatibility atop of BSD unix) and Windows (XP, most likely if computer is new).

So.. Have a nice vacation of all this and please let us know what you have found on your travels.

Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: machinehead on August 14, 2003, 03:46:32 AM
Jaruzel is gone. I wish this person the best that can be had.
Sup. Dave
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: Damion on August 14, 2003, 04:01:59 AM
Take care, Jar. Hope to see ya back again
someday. :-)

Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: downix on August 14, 2003, 04:54:49 AM
@WarPiper

But he discussed the lack of AOS4 as the primary reason, which says that buying hardware is a definate.

Unless it's for his CyberstormPPC.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: DanDude on August 14, 2003, 05:04:01 AM
Good things come to those who wait...

If you can wait until 2004, something good will come...

No, seriously, if you cannot wait any longer I believe you're giving up too soon.  I know, it sux mighty bad to keep waiting for OS4, but in the end it's gonna come.  It's just not gonna come as quickly as you thought.  I won't stand in your way.  Have fun.
 :-(
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: takemehomegrandma on August 14, 2003, 08:50:44 AM
@ DanDude

When talking to people I get the impression that *a lot* of them are really tired of waiting, and not everyone is prepeared to wait forever. I say 3 months - if OS4 is not out there by then (preferably to the A1), then they could as well drop it. Now, don't get me wrong. I am very confident that OS4 will be out some day, but the question is how many early adopters there will be left to embrace it by then? People are moving on now ...
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: browny on August 14, 2003, 10:01:03 AM
The amiga`s a drug, and Jar is an addict, so he will be back for more. :-D
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: Atheist on August 14, 2003, 10:05:42 AM
I'll tell you a story.

My 2.26GHz P4 winxp is re-booting every 20 to 60 minutes because of the stupid msblast.exe virus.
It's 7K on the HD, but when it's running it is 2,628,000 to 3,100,000 bytes big!!!!! What kind of BS is that!?!

I was off of the net for 5 or 6 days because I couldn't re-install xp because I couldn't remember my password and didn't want to re-format the HD. It didn't look like it was going to let me anyway (re-format). I was off-line because of a different virus that norton anti-virus couldn't stop.
edit-
The virus was msmsgri32.exe, it was talked about in a different thread in the "Alternate Operating Systems" section, under "Remote Procedure Call terminated" problem. I tried to get rid of it manually, but eventually crashed the os. Serves me right, my password in xp was "password". :-(
-edit
I had to re-install 3 times, because I was trying to get out of re-installing my hardware drivers and games, but that never works. I thought I could just copy over the previous files, but ended up ruining the new installation which "only" took 45 minutes a pop. It takes 6 1.44 meg disks to get the system up and running that gives you about 40 ms-dos command, most of which don't allow wild carding, like for copy or delete. Then also, alot of directories didn't allow you to access, or erase them.

Then, after the install, I checked how many files are in question, in xp.

Turns out it's an insanity inducing,
561 directories, containing 9231 files!!!!
That's BEFORE umpteen huge drivers.

Then the crazy default swap file bulging out to 1.5 gigs (1.5 times the amount of ram you have.)


I realize that AOS has had it's fair share of virii, and it will always be with us, but my point is more toward the OS. NOTHING can keep me from getting an Amiga (4.0, that is), other than it not coming out.

It'll be SOOOOOOO nice having a fully functional OS below 30 megs, where you can almost memorize all of the names of the files that run it!

I'm sick of ms messenger poping up all the time, and how they totally buried the option where you turn it off. I found out on the web how turn it off, it wasn't "conveniently" mentioned in their help files. It's about seven layers in!!!

Every session with xp and 98se before it, has given me some reason to hate it more!!

Hmmmmm...I'm not sure if I said anything that's relavent,...just alotta steam! Sorry.


AmigaOne! Amiga, no compromise!
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: browny on August 14, 2003, 10:14:02 AM
Let me tell you a story, I got my XP infected with the dropper.delf virus, and my AFG virus software could not kill it !.
It woul close the system down every time i tried to manually delete !.
then i went into dos and found that there was a `dropper.delf uninstall.exe, file. What the F**k is going on !.
I executed the uninstall file and all is well,but can someone tell me what tpye or `Trojan ` is this ?.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: on August 14, 2003, 10:26:02 AM
Quote

browny wrote:
Let me tell you a story, I got my XP infected with the dropper.delf virus, and my AFG virus software could not kill it !.
It woul close the system down every time i tried to manually delete !.
then i went into dos and found that there was a `dropper.delf uninstall.exe, file. What the F**k is going on !.
I executed the uninstall file and all is well,but can someone tell me what tpye or `Trojan ` is this ?.


Solution 1 (http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/)
Solution 2 (http://texturizer.net/firebird/)
Solution 3 (http://www.xp-antispy.org/)
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: bloodline on August 14, 2003, 10:41:57 AM
Quote

PS: I think I'll start an anti-AROS rant to counter bloodline's pro-AROS rants.


Until I can run my existing Amiga 68k binaries on AROS, it's vapour. There, it's out. Now I feel better.


It can. :-D
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: the_leander on August 14, 2003, 12:53:18 PM
Quote
So it is with sadness I bid you all goodbye. I haven't even been logging into Amiga.org for about 3 weeks now, so the writing has already been on the wall.


I know this feeling all too well mate. I gave up my A1200T and my A3000D and went to a PC.... Though not to Micro$haft Winblows.

You might want to try BeOS if you go to x86... certainly its a lot more fun than Windows ever was.

If you do so, let me know and I'll give you my old avatar and I'll offer you any help I can on how to tweek it etc.

Quote
I need to move on with my life, and once again put my Amiga-Love back in the closet...


Which is exactly where I put mine. All safe and sound waiting for the day they become antiques :-D

Quote
It's been fun.


It still can be mate, just cos you don't have an amiga, amiga inspired (MOS) based system doesn't mean that you're automatically blacklisted from this place, I suspect that if you asked the people on there what they run very few would be able to say Amiga only, or even Amiga!

Take heart dear friend, there is life after Amiga :-D
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: redrumloa on August 14, 2003, 01:00:45 PM
Quote

bhoggett wrote:
I should add that I do have a geeky kind of interest in AmigaOS4 and MorphOS, but since I'm never likely to own the hardware required to run them they are never likely to have more than curiosity value for me.


Dunno, my Peggy is shaping up to be most of what i wanted in an AmigaNG. It's just like the old Amiga, only multiple times faster :-o
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: on August 14, 2003, 01:06:53 PM
Quote

redrumloa wrote:
Quote

bhoggett wrote:
I should add that I do have a geeky kind of interest in AmigaOS4 and MorphOS, but since I'm never likely to own the hardware required to run them they are never likely to have more than curiosity value for me.


Dunno, my Peggy is shaping up to be most of what i wanted in an AmigaNG. It's just like the old Amiga, only multiple times faster :-o


I can vouch for that.  MorphOS is very good. Especially 1.4., my development board which is April-less has given me no problems that weren't my fault.  Eyetech/MAI are gonna have to come out with some serious price cuts and better board designs to make me buy one of their boards instead of a Peg2.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: bhoggett on August 14, 2003, 01:15:41 PM
@redrumloa

Quote
Dunno, my Peggy is shaping up to be most of what i wanted in an AmigaNG. It's just like the old Amiga, only multiple times faster


You're missing my point: if I'm going to invest in a completely separate hardware platform, I'd want to see it at least as successful in terms of userbase as the Mac is now.  In consequence, I'm not even going to consider buying an AmigaOne or a Pegasos for at least a couple of years, and even then it would depend on them being many times more successful than the Amiga market would indicate now.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: redrumloa on August 14, 2003, 01:18:31 PM
Quote
You're missing my point: if I'm going to invest in a completely separate hardware platform, I'd want to see it at least as successful in terms of userbase as the Mac is now.


Mac? Oh wow, not in the coming years for sure that's a LONG way away. Now if you said QNX or Beos.. But Mac? Ouch.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: bhoggett on August 14, 2003, 01:29:04 PM
@redrumloa

Quote
Mac? Oh wow, not in the coming years for sure that's a LONG way away. Now if you said QNX or Beos.. But Mac? Ouch.


That's the point, isn't it?

QNX or BeOS are not what I'd describe as top shelf, simply because they lack software support. I'm happy to run them in "trial" mode as secondary operating systems on my x86 box, but I wouldn't buy hardware specially for them.

Similarly, I'm quite willing to give AmigaOS4 and MorphOS a similar "trial", but since they require me to purchase the hardware before I can even use them, they won't even get tried.

I'm also interested in MacOS X, but since even that's not enough to make me buy a Mac, AOS4 and MOS will have to do even better to persuade me to buy the hardware they need to run on.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: JoannaK on August 14, 2003, 01:50:28 PM
Quote

the_leander wrote:

You might want to try BeOS if you go to x86... certainly its a lot more fun than Windows ever was.


BeOS was nice, BUT:

For all fairness you have to say that BeOS is allmost as dead as AmigaOS. So if you'll use it you have to be carefull to purchase only supported hardware and to accept the fact that very little new software appear to it.

Ok. it's been dead less time than Amiga so it still have more active (and coding capable) supporters but there has been  no commercial OS release (one is rumoured to come 'soon')  of it in many years.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: on August 14, 2003, 01:55:20 PM
Quote

JoannaK wrote:
Quote

the_leander wrote:

You might want to try BeOS if you go to x86... certainly its a lot more fun than Windows ever was.


BeOS was nice, BUT:

For all fairness you have to say that BeOS is allmost as dead as AmigaOS. So if you'll use it you have to be carefull to purchase only supported hardware and to accept the fact that very little new software appear to it.

Ok. it's been dead less time than Amiga so it still have more active (and coding capable) supporters but there has been  no commercial OS release (one is rumoured to come 'soon')  of it in many years.


OpenBEOS is coming for the Pegasos, so is QNX, Linux already runs fine, MorphOS runs Amiga stuff, MOL runs Mac stuff, the only reason to use an x86 box other than the price is Windows., and that runs under VirtualPC on MOL.  That's most bases covered methinks! :-)
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: meerschaum on August 14, 2003, 02:31:34 PM
OSX is pretty sweet... I cant blame someone for wanting to use it over BeOS/QNX... it has alot more software support...and more importantly its a 'living' platform... unlike BeOS...
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: Calen on August 14, 2003, 02:52:44 PM
If we didnt have places like here i don't think we would have so many Amigas users left or should i say keeping an eye on current events.
The Amiga has been about the community, has been for many years since we have had nothing else, this has been proven as alot who come here dont even use/have there Amiga no more or use as much as they once  did.
Sure we may have 2 sides but thats irrelevant. If we didnt have an outlet with places like here, we would have no community &  the interest would fade. (

The new h/w and OS coming along now we all have been waiting for since not long after the release of the AA design, thats alot of years and finally we are in the home stretch.  Some may have already found there OS of choice, some choose to wait on OS4, it don't matter as almost all do now still have something to look forward to.

To me personaly  i can wait, we have a cool community here and that whats its been about. The OS and h/w to come is the icing on the cake,  but without it would we still be here?  i know i would.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: amigamad on August 14, 2003, 03:28:13 PM
Quote
For all fairness you have to say that BeOS is allmost as dead as AmigaOS. So if you'll use it you have to be carefull to purchase only supported hardware and to accept the fact that very little new software appear to it.


your wrong there are plenty of people working on updated beos versions you should try beosmax pe edition from here http://www.beosmax.org/main.php (http://www.beosmax.org/main.php)

and dont forget open beos

open beos news and geoforce 4 driver dowload (http://web.inter.nl.net/users/be-hold/BeOS/NVdriver/index.html)
there are also nvidia drivers to download and this is still the only os i have used that you can play an mp3 backwards.

also try this one
http://www.beosonline.de/ (http://www.beosonline.de/index.php?seite=Download)
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: JoannaK on August 14, 2003, 07:27:04 PM
Amigamad: According the rumours there are also lot's of people working on updated AmigaOS and at least 2 alternative variants of it (and One of them is openrouce too).  So it's not much different.

But Beos-6 (I think 5 was last official release, one I purchased was 4.5)  is nothing to happen anyday soon. so it's a lot like AmigaOS4. So IMHO it's only fair to warn Jaruzel about this in case there is a need for having stable and supported Os right now.

Beos is nice personal OS.. Imho the best ever X86 I have used  (dos, windowses, linuxes, Os/2...) but. Today..  well.. worth testing still, it'll may one day make comeback.    :-)
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: tokai on August 14, 2003, 07:55:24 PM
@takemehomegrandma
> And there is allways the b-plan ...

this is a very new point of view for me. I'm now going to understand some things. :-D
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: whoosh777 on August 14, 2003, 09:11:47 PM

FWIW these are my plans and thoughts:

I gave up waiting for OS4 on 31st Jan 2003, that
was my deadline for them.

So my plan now is to buy a Pegasos II as soon
as these come out,

its £299 in the UK which I think is a bargain,
and for £200 I can upgrade it to a G4,


my A500 cost £395, my A1200 cost £395 also,

The difference being that I would have to buy
the RAM + graphics card in addition,

What I know is that Pegasos will deliver this
machine,

Now if Hyperion release A1-OS4 before Pegasos II
comes out then I may consider it,

If as I expect Pegasos II will come out first,
I will buy it, then if eg in 2005 Hyperion
release OS4 on A1 and this looks very interesting
then I will buy an A1 as well,

ie I would then have 2 machines Pegasos II and A1.

:this could have advantages regarding programming,
ie I could develop programs to run on both,

Now to play it safe I will try to only code on
Pegasos II using the OS3.0 API. Any Morphos specific
OS calls I will only use indirectly in such a way
that I could retarget them to OS4.

Thus my programs would be written in a way that
anticipates porting to OS4.

Other thoughts: IMO none of the current offerings is
a real Amiga, they are all 1/2 way to being real
Amigas.

What makes an Amiga an Amiga??

3 things IMO:

1. The OS. the current offerings: Morphos, AROS,
   OS4, Amithlon, emulators all satisfy this condition.

2. The custom h/w: none of the current offerings
   manage this. Only 2 things manage this:
   PPC OS4 and Coldfire (I think its called coldfire??)
   But these 2 options dont count as they require
   a legacy Amiga.

3. Tight integration of OS and h/w, again
   nothing provides this (other than PPC OS4 and Coldfire)

At the heart of a real Amiga is the copper chip:

no-copper-chip? no-Amiga!

Its the copper chip that gave us the perfectly smooth graphics  
and pull down screens etc,

Now if Eyetech comission and integrate the AGA chipset into
the A1, this would be a true Amiga.

I still havent understood why this cannot be done, surely they
could even use the legacy chips: the CPU communicates to the
chips via address-retargetting so this should be feasible via a
G3 for A1 and Pegasos.

Likewise if Pegasos re-implement from the RKM h/w manual
specifications the custom h/w that would become a true Amiga.

Really a true Amiga needs the custom h/w to be continued,
ie extend it with true colour, and "true" sound,
or at the very least simply remanufacture the custom chips
from the blueprints for legacy compatibility.

ie hack in some extra registers for truecolour support,
and maybe some for 16 bit per channel sound (or however many
bits is the current fashion). 16 bit version of classic sound
chips would be really interesting as the classic sound chips are
so straightforward to program

This way all classic programs including games would run
just as they did on your A500 or A1200,



whoosh777


This is what I am talking about which makes an
Amiga a true Amiga, the Amigas custom chipset:


struct Custom {
    UWORD   bltddat;
    UWORD   dmaconr;
    UWORD   vposr;
    UWORD   vhposr;
    UWORD   dskdatr;
    UWORD   joy0dat;
    UWORD   joy1dat;
    UWORD   clxdat;
    UWORD   adkconr;
    UWORD   pot0dat;
    UWORD   pot1dat;
    UWORD   potinp;
    UWORD   serdatr;
    UWORD   dskbytr;
    UWORD   intenar;
    UWORD   intreqr;
    APTR    dskpt;
    UWORD   dsklen;
    UWORD   dskdat;
    UWORD   refptr;
    UWORD   vposw;
    UWORD   vhposw;
    UWORD   copcon;
    UWORD   serdat;
    UWORD   serper;
    UWORD   potgo;
    UWORD   joytest;
    UWORD   strequ;
    UWORD   strvbl;
    UWORD   strhor;
    UWORD   strlong;
    UWORD   bltcon0;
    UWORD   bltcon1;
    UWORD   bltafwm;
    UWORD   bltalwm;
    APTR    bltcpt;
    APTR    bltbpt;
    APTR    bltapt;
    APTR    bltdpt;
    UWORD   bltsize;
    UBYTE   pad2d;
    UBYTE   bltcon0l;
    UWORD   bltsizv;
    UWORD   bltsizh;
    UWORD   bltcmod;
    UWORD   bltbmod;
    UWORD   bltamod;
    UWORD   bltdmod;
    UWORD   pad34[4];
    UWORD   bltcdat;
    UWORD   bltbdat;
    UWORD   bltadat;
    UWORD   pad3b[3];
    UWORD   deniseid;
    UWORD   dsksync;
    ULONG   cop1lc;
    ULONG   cop2lc;
    UWORD   copjmp1;
    UWORD   copjmp2;
    UWORD   copins;
    UWORD   diwstrt;
    UWORD   diwstop;
    UWORD   ddfstrt;
    UWORD   ddfstop;
    UWORD   dmacon;
    UWORD   clxcon;
    UWORD   intena;
    UWORD   intreq;
    UWORD   adkcon;
    struct  AudChannel {
      UWORD *ac_ptr;
      UWORD ac_len;
      UWORD ac_per;
      UWORD ac_vol;
      UWORD ac_dat;
      UWORD ac_pad[2];
    } aud[4];
    APTR    bplpt[8];
    UWORD   bplcon0;
    UWORD   bplcon1;
    UWORD   bplcon2;
    UWORD   bplcon3;
    UWORD   bpl1mod;
    UWORD   bpl2mod;
    UWORD   bplcon4;
    UWORD   clxcon2;
    UWORD   bpldat[8];
    APTR    sprpt[8];
    struct  SpriteDef {
      UWORD pos;
      UWORD ctl;
      UWORD dataa;
      UWORD datab;
    } spr[8];
    UWORD   color[32];
    UWORD htotal;
    UWORD hsstop;
    UWORD hbstrt;
    UWORD hbstop;
    UWORD vtotal;
    UWORD vsstop;
    UWORD vbstrt;
    UWORD vbstop;
    UWORD sprhstrt;
    UWORD sprhstop;
    UWORD bplhstrt;
    UWORD bplhstop;
    UWORD hhposw;
    UWORD hhposr;
    UWORD beamcon0;
    UWORD hsstrt;
    UWORD vsstrt;
    UWORD hcenter;
    UWORD diwhigh;
    UWORD padf3[11];
    UWORD fmode;
};

:they have to at least remanufacture this and possibly
extend it with some new registers

Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: amigamad on August 14, 2003, 09:43:39 PM
Quote
According the rumours there are also lot's of people working on updated AmigaOS



Its not a rumor its a fact the people who are doing it are hyperion. :-o
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: amigamad on August 14, 2003, 09:45:48 PM
Quote
my A500 cost £395, my A1200 cost £395 also,


But they were complete systems not just a motherboard. :-?  :-)
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: minator on August 14, 2003, 10:27:02 PM
Quote
But Beos-6 (I think 5 was last official release, one I purchased was 4.5)  is nothing to happen anyday soon. so it's a lot like AmigaOS4. So IMHO it's only fair to warn Jaruzel about this in case there is a need for having stable and supported Os right now.


I guess you've never heard of YellowTab (http://www.yellowtab.com/).
They are writing what is in effect BeOS R6 (using the original source).  Looks like it'll be out in a few months.

There are also many BeOS or BeOS-like clones under development such as OpenBeOS, B.E.OS, Cosmo, FreeBE etc...

Quote
Beos is nice personal OS.. Imho the best ever X86 I have used  (dos, windowses, linuxes, Os/2...) but. Today..  well.. worth testing still, it'll may one day make comeback.


It was the fact it was so Amiga-like that I got into it.  Fast, good multitasking but it had stuff the Amiga needed like memory protection and a very good OO API.  It also had stuff like a 64 bit file system and file attributes long before any other consumer OS.

So, it's not as "dead" as you may think.

..and yes I hope to get Zeta onto the Pegasos at some point.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: Atheist on August 14, 2003, 11:07:08 PM
Quote

whoosh777 wrote:

FWIW these are my plans and thoughts:


This is what I am talking about which makes an
Amiga a true Amiga, the Amigas custom chipset:


struct Custom {
    UWORD   bltddat;
    UWORD   dmaconr;
..........
    UWORD padf3[11];
    UWORD fmode;
};

:they have to at least remanufacture this and possibly
extend it with some new registers



I have no clue what you just said, but HEY, you're speaking MY language. I TOTALLY agree!!


AmigaOne! Bring on the (near) perfect address space emulation for the old custom HW in AOS4.0!!!!!!!! (or a PCI card :-D)


Amiga RULEZ!!!!
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: tony23 on August 15, 2003, 12:15:34 AM
Ya , I didn't get any of that either,but I'll 2nd your bit about AMIGAONE. Bring it on !  and yes Amiga RULEZ!!
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: downix on August 15, 2003, 04:46:49 AM
@whoosh777

Man, you're the kind of guy I was designing Eddas for.  8)
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: whoosh777 on August 15, 2003, 07:59:20 PM

Quote:



whoosh777 wrote:

FWIW these are my plans and thoughts:


This is what I am talking about which makes an
Amiga a true Amiga, the Amigas custom chipset:


struct Custom {
UWORD bltddat;
UWORD dmaconr;
..........
UWORD padf3[11];
UWORD fmode;
};

:they have to at least remanufacture this and possibly
extend it with some new registers




Atheist wrote:

I have no clue what you just said, but HEY, you're speaking MY language.
I TOTALLY agree!!

===========================

Its the C way of hitting the classic h/w directly, ie that list
represents the custom chipset from a programmer POV.

For example you see dmaconr above, that == DMA-control-READ register
ie the last letter r == read

So in a C program if you want to read that register this is how you
would do it:

struct Custom *custom ;
UWORD dmaconr ;

custom = (struct Custom *)0xdff000 ;

dmaconr = custom->dmaconr ;

Thats it! dmaconr now contains the contents of the hardware register,

Likewise to control the soundchips directly (not through the OS)
you would type eg:

#include
#include

int main( int argc , char **argv )
{
BYTE *data ;
struct Custom *custom ;

custom = (struct Custom *)0xdff000 ;

data = AllocMem( 4 , MEMF_CHIP ) ;
data[ 0 ] = 0 ; data[ 1 ] = 50 ; data[ 2 ] = 0 ; data[ 3 ] = -50 ;
/* :define sound wave 0 50 0 -50   in chip memory */

custom->dmaconw = DMAF_AUD2 ; /* switch off any previous sound */
custom->aud[ 2 ].ac_ptr =(UWORD *)data ;/* tell channel 2 where the sound wave is */
custom->aud[ 2 ].ac_len = 2 ; /* word length of sound data */
custom->aud[ 2 ].ac_per = 450 ; /* how fast to play the wave */
custom->aud[ 2 ].ac_vol = 48 ; /* volume */
custom->dmaconw = DMAF_SET + DMAF_AUD2 + DMAF_MASTER ; /* begin playing the sound */

Delay( 500 ); /* play the sound for 10 seconds */
custom->dmaconw = DMAF_AUD2 ; /* switch off the sound */
FreeMem( data , 4 ) ;

return( 0 ) ;
}

this program would play the sound wave for 10 seconds.
(I havent tested this out, but wrote it on-line by looking at the
h/w RKM pages, some of the numbers eg 450 may need to be changed
to make the sound audible )

People who hit the hardware directly usually do it with assembler,
however its much simpler (but slower) via c, once the sound starts playing
it will be *identical* to if it had been done via assembler.

Anyway the point I am making is that the custom h/w pretends to be
memory locations, in fact what happens is that
the address bus is intercepted and the data bus is then redirected to
the actual custom h/w. Thus it ought to be possible to
use the same interception trick on eg a G3.

The problem with emulating h/w with s/w is that you lose the
perfect timing, one of the reasons classic games had such smooth
graphics was that the entire h/w is perfectly synchronized with the
video beam, with the copper chip arbitrating memory accesses
within each scanline,
Total synchronisation, no way can s/w emulation of the custom chips
achieve such dexterity.

There is some inertia to change screen palettes which amounts to
either 1 or 2 video lines,
so when you slide down a classic screen there are either 1 or 2 lines
of space between any 2 consecutive screens.

People with emulators think they know what an Amiga is,
unfortunately for them the classic Amiga is still ahead in terms of
h/w time synchronisation so its a bit like me viewing a truecolour
screenshot via HAM8.

BTW I am not a h/w person, so some of the above may have
been naively presented,


>AmigaOne! Bring on the (near) perfect address space emulation for the
>old custom HW in AOS4.0!!!!!!!! (or a PCI card)

as long as its h/w emulation, s/w emulation of h/w sucks,
(s/w emulation of h/w requires MMU and page faults, page fault mechanism
is going to ruin any hopes of the perfect almost hypnotic
time synchronisation of classic Amiga h/w

>Amiga RULEZ!!!!

In terms of timing, yes it still does!

whoosh777
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: whoosh777 on August 16, 2003, 01:32:39 AM

In case its of interest here is a debugged + improved
version of the above soundwave program:

http://www.whoosh777.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tone.c

it plays a smoother sound wave for 2 seconds,
a pleasant tone sound,

here is the binary:

http://www.whoosh777.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tone

just 2k, if you have a classic Amiga
then run it

tone

and tone will occur for 2 seconds through channel 0, you can try other
periods + volumes thus:

tone period volume

period + volume are complicated to understand,
but 64 is maximum volume == 0 decibels,

period relates to the frequency, 130 is the
current default value

Anyway OS-emulation is not enough to run such a program,
you would need at least s/w emulation of the custom chips,

I am not sure how s/w emulation would cope with a more complex
version of this prog that had one channel modulating frequency + amplitude
of another.

According to the RKM each audio channel is allocated one DMA slot
per horizontal scan line of the video beam, this is going to
be tricky to emulate accurately in s/w, note that many classic games use tricky
timing eg with floppy drives as a piracy prevention measure.

You could emulate the custom h/w to some extent but I think it
will always lack the precise timing and synchronisation of a true
Amiga.

for these reasons I believe someone must incorporate the custom h/w
or a clone thereof in future Amigas then OS3.9 could be done merely
by using a 68030 emulator, ie emulation of CPU only.

But because Eyetech refuse point blank to bring the custom chips
(probably because Gateway have raided the IP), Hyperion have
got their work cut out. Were Eyetech to do the custom chips the
A1 + OS3.9 could easily be out in maybe 3 months it would really
turn the A1 project into a non-issue, however without the custom chips and
its a major issue.

Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: bloodline on August 16, 2003, 01:59:38 AM
@Woosh777

You can emulate the ChipSet's registers no problem. You can set up these virtual registers that will emulate the Chipset functions.

But you won't get the timing right. The Whole Emulation would be out of sync. The reason why UAE is slow is because it has to keep the chipset timing in prefect sync with the CPU... take away the Chipset emualtion and you get Amithlon (MorphOS and AOS4) 68k emulation speeds.

You can't design a custon Gaphics chipset anymore... The whole Amiga 1000 was brought in for around $35 Million... that's how much one chip from Nvidia or ATI cost to develop (probably more given inflation)...
A custom sound chip isn't needed as a good DPS will do the job...

Basicly Custom hardware is a dead end (if you needed use UAE), and custom hardware is only any good if you have a massive budget (bigger than Nvidia) and a good return...

Frankly, Neither Eyetech nor Genesi could afford to have custom hardware.... and Neither Hyperion nor MorphOS want to be bogged down with Custom chip emualtion.

AROS does plan to have a highly integrated emualtor for games, but you need to talk to "The Emulator Guy" about that.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: B00tDisk on August 16, 2003, 02:31:24 AM
Quote

But because Eyetech refuse point blank to bring the custom chips
(probably because Gateway have raided the IP),


Heh.  What a vivid imagination you've got there...check out the Google archives of Dave Haynie posting in csam (you know who Haynie is, right?) and take a gander at his words on reproducing the custom chips.

Also, despite what some people think, NTSC or PAL timing-locked raster interrupts do not a great chipset make.  Once upon a time, maybe.  

Live with emulation, or buy yourself a pallet load of A500's and A1200s (unexpanded, of course...just about the only rigs that'll run that nasty hardware beating junk).
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: smerf on August 16, 2003, 06:31:49 AM
Hi,

@Jaruzel,


OK go ahead and quit, just pack up the old Amiga, throw
it in a closet and go on with your life in the PC world.

I have 6 PC's and 6 Amiga's, I still use the Amiga for a
lot of stuff. You won't see me giving up on the Amiga

So what if it is by PC standards slow, you know only 25
through 60 mhz. I have a 2.2 gig hurt PC that the Amiga
beats in on time everyday. Think about it, What the PC
clone heads throw away fit very nicely in the old Amiga.

The hard drives and the CDROM's that they are getting rid
of because they are to old and slow run nicely in the Amiga.

Don't give up just because some PC clone head says that
computer is antique, would you throw away a 1961 Lotus Elite,
a 1961 Ferrari, A 1960 Triumph Spitfire, A 1948 VW, heck no,
you would cherish driving it and remember the good old days and
you would probably stay with and chat with the people who drive
these old cars. Same way with computers, they may be old and slow
but they still drive the same as when they were new.

Now that I said that I think I will go fire up my VIC 20 or my
C64 or maybe my old trs-80, hmmmm haven't used that old
C128 lately been too busy playing that old clown game
with the bust the balloons.

smerf
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: smerf on August 16, 2003, 06:31:49 AM
Hi,

@Jaruzel,


OK go ahead and quit, just pack up the old Amiga, throw
it in a closet and go on with your life in the PC world.

I have 6 PC's and 6 Amiga's, I still use the Amiga for a
lot of stuff. You won't see me giving up on the Amiga

So what if it is by PC standards slow, you know only 25
through 60 mhz. I have a 2.2 gig hurt PC that the Amiga
beats in on time everyday. Think about it, What the PC
clone heads throw away fit very nicely in the old Amiga.

The hard drives and the CDROM's that they are getting rid
of because they are to old and slow run nicely in the Amiga.

Don't give up just because some PC clone head says that
computer is antique, would you throw away a 1961 Lotus Elite,
a 1961 Ferrari, A 1960 Triumph Spitfire, A 1948 VW, heck no,
you would cherish driving it and remember the good old days and
you would probably stay with and chat with the people who drive
these old cars. Same way with computers, they may be old and slow
but they still drive the same as when they were new.

Now that I said that I think I will go fire up my VIC 20 or my
C64 or maybe my old trs-80, hmmmm haven't used that old
C128 lately been too busy playing that old clown game
with the bust the balloons.

smerf
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: Lando on August 16, 2003, 06:52:26 AM
Quote
But because Eyetech refuse point blank to bring the custom chips


Eyetech is a shop selling a PPC motherboard designed and manufactured in the far east.  They have about as much say on the chips that go into the A1 as your local Comet or Currys have on the chips that go into Sony's TVs.
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: Damion on August 16, 2003, 07:10:47 AM
Quote

been too busy playing that old clown game
with the bust the balloons.


People still play Kickman??? I hated that game!
It was one of my first cartridge games on the
C64 (before I had a floppy) and I couldn't
stand it, probably becasue my parents bought
me it instead of Jungle Hunt, LOL. :)
Title: Re: Time to say goodbye.
Post by: amigamad on August 16, 2003, 09:11:56 AM
Quote
Don't give up just because some PC clone head says that  computer is antique, would you throw away a 1961 Lotus Elite,
a 1961 Ferrari, A 1960 Triumph Spitfire, A 1948 VW


No not when you can banger race them .