Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: LoadWB on May 15, 2008, 05:14:53 PM
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I do not know if I am supposed to post this or not, but I am really pissed about this. I am not going to go off onto a tirade, because I am sure that most people here feel the way I do right now. Unfortunately, this kind of activity will ultimately force people who have waited for 10 years or more like I have for another run of the Guru Book to fall back on the pirated version. Sickening.
APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
It is already known that we try to reprint the English Amiga Guru Book by Ralph Babel.
Some additions were also planned to the original book.
The German Amiga Guru Book is available for some time now.
Nevertheless some Amiga users needed to put some pirated copies of the book online.
The print material is ready and actually we wanted to give it to the printing press.
But since several weeks there is a torrent with a pirated copy of the English Amiga Guru Book
online.
Due to the fact that some Amiga users don't show up any support towards those who keep their
platform up and try to supply them with information this project is hereby discontinued.
That's why the Amiga Future project AGG which should be financed through the reprint has also been
discontinued.
Original statement by Ralph Babel:
Unfortunately, the release of the 800-page extended edition of the Amiga Guru Book (covering OS 3.x
and beyond) scheduled for April was preempted by some fool seeding a scan of the older version into
one of those pirate-to-pirate networks, eliminating all hopes of me ever being able to recover the
cost of a reprint, so the project had to be stopped immediately to avoid further loss of time and
money. Thank you, Keith.
http://babel.de
http://www.apc-tcp.de
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:cry: :cry: :cry:
and towards the pirates
:madashell: :madashell: :madashell:
I'm not a coder, but I have a lot of friends who are and they were waiting for this book! UG!!! This is one of the reasons the Amiga was hamstrung back in the 90's...
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What a cop out. 95% of the people who would want that book would have bought it. I've been waiting for this book and now we get this crap excuse for not printing it.
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I am also very angered by this turn of events. I have been waiting for this book for a few years.
I would be interested in participating in any effort to generate enough prepaid book sales to allow Ralph Babel to go forward with the updated version of the book in English.
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Shocking and scandalous!
On a slightly unrelated topic, what’s a guru book?
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APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
It is already known that we try to reprint the English Amiga Guru Book by Ralph Babel.
Some additions were also planned to the original book.
The German Amiga Guru Book is available for some time now.
Nevertheless some Amiga users needed to put some pirated copies of the book online.
The print material is ready and actually we wanted to give it to the printing press.
But since several weeks there is a torrent with a pirated copy of the English Amiga Guru Book
online.
Due to the fact that some Amiga users don't show up any support towards those who keep their
platform up and try to supply them with information this project is hereby discontinued.
That's why the Amiga Future project AGG which should be financed through the reprint has also been
discontinued.
Original statement by Ralph Babel:
Unfortunately, the release of the 800-page extended edition of the Amiga Guru Book (covering OS 3.x
and beyond) scheduled for April was preempted by some fool seeding a scan of the older version into
one of those pirate-to-pirate networks, eliminating all hopes of me ever being able to recover the
cost of a reprint, so the project had to be stopped immediately to avoid further loss of time and
money. Thank you, Keith.
http://babel.de
http://www.apc-tcp.de
This is absolutely stupid, by cancelling the official publication, he is forcing people to use the pirate copy, and legitimizing the pirate channel as the only way of getting that which most current amiga users are perfectly willing to pay for.
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I would purchase a legitimate copy if available. I hope they reconsider and release it.
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Simple solution: take pre-orders. If there are enough to cover costs then print the books. If not, then nothing is lost.
--
moto
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I totally agree with you.
Three facts:
I did not know of this pirated torrent.
I would have bought the book.
I am still interested in buying it.
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motorollin wrote:
Simple solution: take pre-orders. If there are enough to cover costs then print the books. If not, then nothing is lost.
--
moto
Isn't that what I said?
Let's start a list of those that are willing to pre-pay.
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I'd pre pay. Stick a poll up.
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Considering the current amiga org policy regarding piracy.. where is the torrent link!?
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Well. I had no idea about the torrent but have been after this book for ages and would buy it. Now I'll have to settle for the torrent.. or an expensive ebay auction (when the book comes up about once every 3 years!)
What a silly reaction!
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I am interested in buying it.
I would buy a pdf version if it helps.
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Really? Some of these websites offer to print your book for $1,000 dollars. Why couldn't he re-coup the money?
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motorollin wrote:
Simple solution: take pre-orders. If there are enough to cover costs then print the books. If not, then nothing is lost.
Right on. Cancelling the book is about the most stupid thing you can do. Hell, they could've released an electronic version instead as making a CD is a helluva lot cheaper than processing dead trees. The pirated version isn't even the most up-to-date release, f'r cryin' out loud!
Personally, I think the business case for a reprint was shaky to begin with, and this provided a nice, clean excuse for all those involved to bow out of the project without too much loss of face.
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Theres a torrent ! Off to the Bay !.......Piracy! Man that is a lame excuse.......
M$ No New Windoze until all the pirates pay up.....No OS4 until they stop trying to hack it onto a Mac Mini....So Last Year!
Shaz
PS I just heard Discworld is the most pirated book, Pratchett, said "Laughin" old news. It didn't stop him making a mint.
PPS....I've decided to withhold my labour from the NHS until the all the tax payers pay up. Make me a brew !
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I would rather have a printed book in hand, but agree that Ralph Babel could set up a website with a purchase option to download a PDF version of his new book instead of giving up and blaming the pirates. The costs should be low enough to cover with sales that way.
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I'm not pre paying for this book in the hope that the author graces us with his work. The book is a product. When they produce the product they'll get my money. I know amiga and related products are hard to come by but it's no excuse to reduce oneself to begging or taking on risk for something that might never provide a return.
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amigadave wrote:
I would rather have a printed book in hand, but agree that Ralph Babel could set up a website with a purchase option to download a PDF version of his new book instead of giving up and blaming the pirates. The costs should be low enough to cover with sales that way.
I'd rather have a printed book too. I think this is just a case where the guy realizes there isn't any money to be made and a good chance of taking a loss on it. Selling a PDF would eliminate most of his risk. No having to pay for printers, shippers, etc. Just about everybody who wants this book will buy it if he will just offer it for sale.
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koaftder wrote:
What a cop out. 95% of the people who would want that book would have bought it. I've been waiting for this book and now we get this crap excuse for not printing it.
Agreed, what a bummer. Though it must obviously sting to see your hard work posted for free on the net, maybe the fact a torrent exists is a sign the information is (at least somewhat) in demand and would be purchased.
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noooooo
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Cymric wrote:
Personally, I think the business case for a reprint was shaky to begin with, and this provided a nice, clean excuse for all those involved to bow out of the project without too much loss of face.
Especially since there are plenty of companies like Lulu.com which can make printing on demand and arrange delivery and distribution etcetcetc...
(yes.. and I did log in just to write this comment)
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As stated on a post above, it's a lame excuse. Those who were about to buy the book will buy it regardless the torrent. It's the same excuse from the music industry.
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Setup a website with a password protected ebook PDF file on a website with a paypal link. Have a couple of passages from the book, testemonials, etc.
Internet markters do this all the time for information that's available for FREE...
If you're still into the Amiga at this point you'll probably download the torrent AND buy the real book also.
Did they hope to sell more than a few thousand anyway?
Come on...
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Sad news...
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bugger...
so I guess this leaves me no choice and download the pirated version ? sigh... talk about having any/no choice :-(
I don't understand.... if people have the choice between NO orders and ANY orders... why do they choose NONE...
pdf download ? anyone ? where ?
ta
Tom UK
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Its very sad
I didnt know the existance of a torrent file with the english version of this book, which i have been waiting for many years
Now, i know about the existance of such a torrent file.
So? I STILL WANT THE REAL THING!!!
Come on Ralph, i would definitely buy the english printed book!!
And as a "bonus" or something like that, you could also sell the PDF version of it
Of course, im glad to pay for a pre-order! Count me in!
Sebastian
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Yep, it's on the Bay with a good seed. What is "Amiga Future project AGG"?
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This smells like there is something deeper. This stinks like a cop out, for sure. I would surely purchase a copy of the (legitimate) book, and I believe many Amiga users would.
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I agree somewhat, the longterm sale of this book would far outweigh and outlive this torrent, i've been waiting for the english version since they announced the german version...
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Good work, guys! :roll:
Only in the Amiga community can one or two fools unleash the hornets' nest that spoils things for everyone.
The fact that more than 50 people are now downloading the pirated copy is doubly shameful.
This kind of crap keeps happening. How many more sunken projects will it take before people learn?
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Quote from the torrent ... "This is a full 736 page scan of the Amiga Guru Book by Ralph Babel. It was scanned at 300dpi, and the entire book is English and is text-searchable." ... Unquote
What I'd like to know is how did they get to scan the entire 736 pages at 300dpi into PDF format without anybody smelling a rat?
A cop out? Oh yes ... you bet'cha!
I want the book, the whole book ... and nothing but the book!
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persia wrote:
What is "Amiga Future project AGG"?
I´d like to know this as well.
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What I'd like to know is how did they get to scan the entire 736 pages at 300dpi into PDF format without anybody smelling a rat?
All it takes is one schmuck with a copy of the first edition, a scanner, way too much time on his hands, and bad ethics.
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Matt_H wrote:
All it takes is one schmuck with a copy of the first edition, a scanner, way too much time on his hands, and bad ethics.
Something about this entire episode smells for sure ... and I don't mean of roses.
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What a cop out. 95% of the people who would want that book would have bought it. I've been waiting for this book and now we get this crap excuse for not printing it.
Yeah, I'd say that is a cop out, too. Of the people who would actually USE it, most probably want an actual paper book! It's a lot more of a pain in the neck to fight and muck with another computer, monitor, setup displaying the PDF while you're working on a project, compared to a nice dead-tree book that fits so well on the table beside you.... (grumble)
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but that just seems crazy. "Nope, we're not going to sell any fresh apples today... We can't compete. There are some month-old rotted oranges over there in that dumpster that just anyone could grab for free."
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Quote from the torrent ... "This is a full 736 page scan of the Amiga Guru Book by Ralph Babel. It was scanned at 300dpi, and the entire book is English and is text-searchable." ... Unquote
I remember many years ago I got an access to those PDF files. I have to say that quality was not very good and after looking at few pages I deleted it from my HD. It was not readable.
I would prefer book version anyway since you can have it open while coding. Not so easy with PDFs.
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Double post (thanks to svenska bredbandbolaget).
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I grabbed the torrent to see what the fuss was about as I also had heard that the scan from a long time ago was really bad and basically unreadable. This sucker is damn good. Every page is almost perfect and it's OCR'd. I used to work in an imaging department scanning in pharma docs for companies getting off the paper. This wasn't some nerd with tons of time on his hands scanning in a book on a flat bed.
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somebody had access to a really nice industrial scanner and took the time to de spine that book, or perhaps they had a copy that wasn't bound. I bet that author is pissed.
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Ah well, explains why Andrea didnt want to continue project anymore.
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It sucks, now I feel like I have to buy the German version I can't read just for doing that.
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Ok Here goes.
While you have to respect an authors rights to do whatever he wants with his IP the resoning behind this particular decision is full of contradictions, fiction and statement that cannot be proven.
regards
Bandis
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I'm incredibly frustrated that the Amiga platform has managed to lose many talented and valued users since 1994 yet the pirates clearly remain involved :-x :madashell: :pissed:
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This thread smells of some hypocrisy too...
Shall I let the hypocrites into a secret.......
It doesn't matter two hoots if a book/game/video/music or software is pirated. Because in the end.....someone has to pay to get it. Either by sucking leccy from the grid, Paying Taxes, Eating bandwidth, paying the mob......somebody gets paid, and in the end rich people end up with most of it and everyone else can swing.
I might not be the author...owner or person who came up with the idea. It may not be fair, but life isn't fair. There are no morals beyond your own self esteem. Whinge as much as you like as other humans on the whole are inherently selfish and no amount of moaning helps. People will Pirate/Steal bread from babies mouths if conditions are right.
H.G Wells had it about right in The Shape of Things to Come. Pity his ego couldn't see the wood from the trees later on tho....Personally Aldous Huxley also was about right too and I'm reasonably sure "Colonel George Taylor" is going to be right soon or later !.
Endth the 41yrs lesson of life so far......and arn't I a miserable sod :) I need a chill pill :)
Shaz
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I want that book, and even if I had the electronic version I would buy it because a properly printed book is sooo much better than any PDF or crap printed version.
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There have been studies done on the impact of pirated materials (i.e. music, books, bags, watches, etc. ,and yes this included counterfeited items) on various industries, which showed very little impact on market share and earnings of companies examined. Basically, illustrating that people of means ($$$) and real product interest will buy the products they want. Sure there are a few losers out there who will try to obtain something for nothing, but the real consumer of that product will pay for it.
This can be debated to the cows come home.
Do Pre-orders on the book and count me for one!
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Turn something negative into something positive instead. Find new markets instead of rely on an old market.
-Create a PDF of the Amiga book and sell it for $5.95.
-If you are paranoid add DRM protection to it (although last year when I researched DRM it was a fairly costly solution).
-Give it away. Yes give away a FREE Amiga e-book and place links inside the book for products. You get a piece of the cake whenever a sale coming from someone reading your book happens.
-Set up Print on demand but release e-book for free. Free version is simple print-forbidden PDF. Off course most users can crack this (one version is to print screen inside OS running PDF with Vmware) mention many time in e-book that printed book is only xx euro. People will want proper book at good price.
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I've already added my name to the list of people that would buy the book if it were printed. I didn't even know about the bittorrent version. Regardless, a printed version that's even been updated would be worth so much more than a pdf.
We need to collectively convince Andreas & co. to change their mind.
Hans
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I asked "Any chance of doing a pre-pay, and if enough orders come in then print the book?"
but the response was "i think no"
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@webmany
If enough people said that they would buy it, he'd be an idiot to continue to say no.
Hans
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Nobody has actually mentioned what this book does yet. I did a web search and found the English-language page of the developer that does not say what the book is (though I now know it has a black and red cover) and another link to a thread on this website where a bunch of people praise the decision to make an English language version of the book (without mentioning the function of the book)
www.amazon.com has a ton of books that may be suitable for our use, if just owning a book is the end goal.
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This has nothing to do with collecting amiga related stuff. The end goal is to get good documentation and reference material in the hands of developers. Those of us who are interested in writing software for Amigas know about this book and have wanted it for quite a while.
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@Terse
Look here (http://aminet.net/search?query=guru+book).
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@ Hans_
I already emailed Andreas affirming my commitment to make a purchase, but apparently it was Ralph Babel's decision to suspend the project. I'll probably email him as well to see if there's anything that can be done.
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There are many print on demand services on the internet (lulu.com being a particularly good example), so the cost to the author is zilch, to cancel it on the basis of a torrent is to cut off what would otherwise be a perfectly good business model.
All this chap has done, is guarantee that the torrent will be used. If he'd kept quiet, chances are most of the Amiga community would never have even known of it's existence.
Well played.
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That's just asinine. "I'm going to force people who want to buy my book to get pirate copies because there are pirate copies on the internet." I suppose it's easier to just whine and insult your potential buyers by insinuating they'd just steal it online rather than buy a copy.
I wonder if the extended edition actually exists.
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Yeah, that's what I don't get. I got the email basically saying "there's a torrent out there of the old version, so we're never going to release the new one". The first thing through my mind was, "sooo... you're saying that because there's a torrent out there, my only option now is to break the law and download that torrent?" It puts me in a position I don't like by denying me the ability to do the right thing, and it doesn't make a lot of sense either. I can understand him being upset at the torrent, but just cancelling the book (especially if, as he said, the new book is already finished) doesn't make any sense to me. As others have already said, there are many avenues open to him that carry very little financial risk. I'm much more inclined to believe that he changed his mind for some other reason and the torrent is just an excuse. If he decided he didn't want to publish it that's fine, but I don't like being treated like an idiot. A simple "after consideration we've decided not to publish after all" would have been enough.
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I had a look at that torrent (BTW i would never have known it existed unless Ralph said so) it ok, BUT as a few have already said i want the book in front of me in paper form i don't like ready doc/pdf or large text file on the computer screen. I don't see why he would cancel everything just because of a torrent unless he realised that he couldn't make a big profit on the book (as a few people already have said) which means it's just an excuse to cop out.
(BTW i would have bought the book even though i know where the torrent is now and can download it if i choose...)
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he is forcing people to use the pirate copy
no he's not.
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weirdami wrote:
he is forcing people to use the pirate copy
no he's not.
There is a market for this book, people want to pay to get this information, some people might even argue that they need this information, by denying them a legitimate route to get at it, the author is in fact, forcing people to look elsewhere to acquire it. Since there are likely very few instances of this book being available on ebay, for instance, the only alternative is the torrented pdf, ergo, he is forcing people to use the pirate copy to access it.
I thank you, I'll be here all week.
:-D
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Hmm.. I didnt know it existed as a torrent either..googled it and whoa, its there alright.
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He should grab the already digitized copy from the torrent, package it up into a pdf and sell it. This would make it available to people to purchase legally and if you want a paper copy you can print it from the pdf. If there was enough interest they could decide to sell the new version or not.
Given the option I think lots of folks would be willing to pay for the original version in electronic format. If it was really successful he could discount the price of the new one for folks that bought the electronic version of the original.
I guess this all hangs on how good the quality of the illegal scans were. If they were good enough he could turn an act of piracy into free labor.
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Ok lets see who is serious. I am.
Who would pay for a book? Maybe Mr Babel will see this thread and change his mind.
Add your name below:
1. TjLaZer
2.
3.
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TjLaZer wrote:
Ok lets see who is serious. I am.
Who would pay for a book? Maybe Mr Babel will see this thread and change his mind.
Add your name below:
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3.
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AltRN8 wrote:
Add your name below:
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
I wouldn't prepay, but I would definitely buy it if it came out with a reasonable price.
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countzero wrote:
AltRN8 wrote:
Add your name below:
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
I already said that I would above, but here it is again.
Hans
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Add your name below:
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
Out of interest, in Ralph's original announcement, he ends by thanking Keith. Does anyone know a Keith in the community who might be dastardly enough to put a torrent file out on the net to piss Ralph off? Sounds like a pissing contest to me, but I still REALLY want this book.
tiffers
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Add your name below:
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
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Hans_ wrote:
If enough people said that they would buy it, he'd be an idiot to continue to say no.
Idiocy and the Amiga community seem to go hand in hand. :-(
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Tahoe wrote:
Add your name below:
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
Well, I doubt that having a list of 15 to 25 A.org members sign a list will make any difference, but I will play anyway.
I will buy the book or a PDF download and print my own, but I am with the others that say "no" to prepaying. Ralph can arrange a website with the download at a very low cost and little risk of recovering his investment. It is a damn shame about what happened, but it doesn't mean he has to give up completely. Publishing for such a small market was probably not cost efficient even without the bit torrent release.
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Hmmm... well something seems fishy here.
I went to the first "on demand" publisher I found on google which was lulu.com
Looks like I can make a book what is the following specs:
A4 B&W Perfect Bound 8.264" x 11.694" with 740 pages
Now that costs only $19.33 AND that is if you have just 1 single book made. Now you get a discount if you have over 25 books made.
So there must be even better ways to do this then just the first thing I found on google right??
So I'll add my name to the list...
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
....but I guess there is always another route to get a printed book for a reasonalbe cost if we really are given no choice and aren't really given the "truth". This seems really silly.
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webmany wrote:
I asked "Any chance of doing a pre-pay, and if enough orders come in then print the book?"
but the response was "i think no"
i write today a email to ralph and ask him again that he allow that we print the book. when he say no is the project for me closed. dont make really fun when i look why he dont would like reprint the book....
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I have never written a single line of Amiga code, but I was actually planning to buy this, just to have it.
Now that all this happened, I would definitely buy a copy to support the initiative.
I guess signing this doesn't help, but here goes nothing.
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
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Damn, waited a long time for this, already mentioned it numerous times.
I agree with most people here. Want to pay for the real thing, even though I can get the pdf for free.
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
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I'm in on the real Guru book!!!!!!
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg :-D
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Oh, alright then...
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg :-D
12. Marcb
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1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
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1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14 OSS542
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I have said before, I will say it again.
Its the Amiga so why bother.
This does make me angry, I to would have bought the book but I cant now no one can.
One up for the pirates.
This is so wrong.
Mike. :madashell: :madashell: :madashell:
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Firedawg wrote:
I'm in on the real Guru book!!!!!!
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg :-D
12. Andeda
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1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg :-D
12. Andeda
13. A6000
If they do not print this book, then they should release the revised version as a torrent and I will get lulu.com to print me one copy for 19.95.
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Trying to correct the list, some people disappeared:
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
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I'm in.
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
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1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
How much money US?
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1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
And I'd be prepared to preorder and prepay.
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
-
AndreasM wrote:
webmany wrote:
I asked "Any chance of doing a pre-pay, and if enough orders come in then print the book?"
but the response was "i think no"
i write today a email to ralph and ask him again that he allow that we print the book. when he say no is the project for me closed. dont make really fun when i look why he dont would like reprint the book....
I don't think that anyone is making fun of the decision or the reasons why. People disagree both with the decision and the reason why, and really hope that you and Ralph will change your mind.
Expecting that amongst all present and past Amiga users, no-one is going to be a pirate is simply unrealistic. Yes, it hurts to see your own copyrighted material being distributed, but as all of the threads on all Amiga forum sites shows, those few really don't matter.
Don't forget that not all people with a copy of the old book are current Amiga users, so the guy that put the torrent online may not even have a working Amiga.
A whole bunch of us, me included, are respectfully asking you and Ralph to reconsider publishing the updated Guru book in English.
Hans
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
-
LoadWB wrote:
I do not know if I am supposed to post this or not, but I am really pissed about this.
APC&TCP: Project Guru Book Reprint Discontinued
It is already known that we try to reprint the English Amiga Guru Book by Ralph Babel.
Nevertheless some Amiga users needed to put some pirated copies of the book online.
That's why the Amiga Future project AGG which should be financed through the reprint has also been
discontinued.
Original statement by Ralph Babel:
http://babel.de
http://www.apc-tcp.de
I couldn't find an email address for him, so maybe someone can get this to him?
Dear Mr. Babel,
If the concerns about a pirated version of the previous book due to its lack of current availability, are the only reason for canceling the re-print, then I would humbly recommend offering a pre-sales offering. I would do this through the active Amiga forums with the understanding that unless X number of books are pre-ordered the re-print won't occur.
I think the publisher will be surprised by the results in a very happy way. Most of remaining Amiga community users that I know, typically only pirate when they can't get the product through another reasonable source.
Please do not let one torrent stop the publishing of this book. If the publishers require a guarantee, then a pre-order would benefit everyone. I would think that the updated content alone would be enough to interest anyone.
I tell you what, I don't really need the book but I will buy a copy to support it's re-publish if you offer it as a pre-order count me in.
Sincerely,
-Nyle F. Landas
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
-
its 2008 and everything is going to be pirated nothing anyone can do about that. just stand up take it like a man and take pre-orders, and if there is enough interest print the damn book....
now get over it!....
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
-
I can fully understand why Mr. Babel wouldn't want to continue. It's horrible to see all your hard work put online for free, it's happened to me before now.
However, just because one idiot wants to put it online doesn't mean anything..... just because it's available for free instead of giving money to the author doesn't mean everyone's going to do that. In fact, I would say that practically everybody who has enough of an interest to pay for this book appreciates that they need to buy it to support the author. The people who torrent it wouldn't want to buy it anyway.
I think this would probably affect his sales by about 5%-10%, that's all. I do say that a pre-order system is a good idea, though.... certainly much better than punishing an entire community because of one ignorant fool.
-
spirantho wrote:
I think this would probably affect his sales by about 5%-10%, that's all. I do say that a pre-order system is a good idea, though.... certainly much better than punishing an entire community because of one ignorant fool.
I think that the effect would be even less than that, particularly if it's made very clear that the new book has been updated. Most people using the torrent instead of buying the actual book would probably not buy the book anyway. If the price is the same as for the German version, then it's pretty affordable. Printing the PDF would probably cost as much (or even more, depending on the printer).
Hans
-
By Fester on 2008/5/16 10:44:05
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
Add your name above and delete this text:
I will gladly pay Ralph extra $ for a searchble (PW prot) PDF also. Thanx all!
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
27. LoadWB (prepay=Y)
I implicitly made my commitment, but I'll explicitly thrown down my gauntlet. I don't have money to throw around these days on my hobby and love, so this will be my one discretionary purchase.
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
27. twizzle
[/quote]
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
27. LoadWB (prepay=Y)
28. twizzle
29. nOw2
-
30. Bill McEwen
--
moto
-
31. Doomy
-
nOw2 wrote:
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
27. LoadWB (prepay=Y)
28. twizzle
29. nOw2
Would amigakit and other retailers be prepared to order 10 copies each for stock?
-
Why invest lots of money for a reprint when you can use a service like CafePress Self Publishing (http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/sell/products/books)? :-? There is a base price and you choose the retail price and earn the difference between the retail price and their base price :idea:
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
27. LoadWB (prepay=Y)
28. twizzle
29. nOw2
30. Cass
Sad... Just a few days ago I asked about the English reprint. I was about to buy the German version, but my German is poor.
Now, regarding the torrent :
-1. The new book is updated, so a proggramer will make the most of it.
-2. I've seen and touched the paperback version (the older, english version), and I guarantee you that is of great quality, and no printer or screen version compares to it (for practical reasons it's best the paperback, for collectors is a must, great work!)
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
27. LoadWB (prepay=Y)
28. twizzle
29. nOw2
30. Cass
31. Jiminy
-
Good catch on the double 27s nOw2.
I guess there are a few more interested people here that want this book than I thought. Has anyone notified the other Amiga websites of our little list?
I have been unable to use my password, or create a new password at AmigaWorld.net for a few months. and their random password creator/reset mechanism does not work, so I can't get in to create a new password. That plus I can't find any email addresses of the site administrators to tell them of the problem, so I can't get any help to fix the problem. This is the only site that I have time to be active in (it's my favorite), so I think I get deleted from AW.net due to lack of activity.
-
Finally got my AW.net login fixed and posted over there about this list of buyers.
I also had another thought, how many of you buyers would prepay by buying a download version first with the agreement to have your credit card charged again for a printed version only after the book was printed and on its way to you in the mail? I know that I would participate in such an idea. That way I have something for the money I have spent on the download, that money helps them fund the publishing of the actual book, and then my credit card is not charged for the actual book until it is ready for shipment to me. Andreas gets some money now and a promise for more money later when the book exists and is ready for shipment and he already has the list of buyers and their credit card numbers.
What do you think?
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
27. LoadWB (prepay=Y)
28. twizzle
29. nOw2
30. Cass
31. Jiminy
32. Codesmith
-
I'm not too keen on giving up my credit card number. I'd gladly Paypal a refundable deposit though.
-
Paypal? Are you serious? ;-)
Click. (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=36396)
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
27. LoadWB (prepay=Y)
28. twizzle
29. nOw2
30. Cass
31. Jiminy
32. Codesmith
33. pVC
-
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
27. LoadWB (prepay=Y)
28. twizzle
29. nOw2
30. Cass
31. Jiminy
32. Codesmith
33. pVC
34. avanham
-
In other news, reprints of the Complete Works of William Shakespear have been cancelled due to the online existance of the said texts.
Mr. Shakespear has been unavailable for a comment. :roll:
-
Ok, I sent an email directly to Ralph regarding this, and he told me that I could post his reply on the Amiga forums, so here it is:
Dear Hans,
I appreciate your support, but this is not
a question of how many copies could be sold.
Let me try to provide some background:
Piracy is a fact of life in the digital age, and
current copyright law is certainly past its prime.
The new Guru Book, however, wasn't a commercial project
to begin with, and since I didn't expect to make any money
off it, I wasn't too worried about the old RTF/OCR version
(which I even mentioned on my Amiga web page). In fact, it's
been fun to dust off all of my old Amiga equipment, tools,
and documentation. (Though I have to admit that I used
Emacs and TeX on a Linux box to prepare the new edition.)
But claiming that pirates aren't customers anyhow
doesn't quite hit the nail on the head, because
this is where the line is getting blurry:
The new 300-dpi scan was prepared and disseminated not
by Joe Average Pirate with too much time on his hands.
It was a fellow Amiga enthusiast who knew exactly that
an enhanced version was being worked on. Nonetheless, he
decided to make the torrent available - just days before
the extended edition was to go to the printer -, which -
in my very humble opinion - exhibits an enormous amount
of disrespect for somebody else's creative work.
Maybe he considered free availability of the
1993 version more important than the update.
Well, so be it.
As I wanted the reprint to be of the highest possible
quality, print-on-demand was out of the question. Offset,
however, requires a certain minimum number of copies. Let's
face it: this is 2008; the audience for a book like this is
microscopic, and the new scans didn't make it any larger.
So why am I not making it available electronically?
I believe that text needs to be written not only to the
audience, but also with the target _medium_ in mind. An
article I write for my web site will look different from
one to be published in a printed magazine; the original
plain-text list of FAQs I wrote for the Usenet newsgroup
de.etc.sprache.deutsch differs markedly from my web site
http://faql.de etc.
The Guru Book was "designed" to be published on paper.
Yes, it would be nice to have an electronic edition, but
that would require a "redesign" I cannot reasonably spend
any time on. And no, I don't consider PDF adequate (which
the pirate was well aware of, by the way).
I do not depend on writing copyrighted works for a living,
but I feel that the cause of those who do (and thus society
as a whole) is best supported by me _not_ releasing the new
extended edition of the Guru Book.
The decision didn't come lightly. Please respect it - and
try to provide for an environment in which creative workers
are encouraged - and can afford - to share their work.
Sincerely
Ralph
http://babel.de
P. S.: Feel free to forward this message
to an Amiga forum of your choice.
So there you have it. I'm still hoping that he may reconsider at some point, but it looks like the market would have to be big enough to support offset printing. The estimates that I've seen put the threshold for offset printing being more economical than digital prints at 500-2000 copies (the large margin is because it depends on many factors).
Hans
-
So why is it cancelled? I dont really see the answer there.
-
avanham wrote:
1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
27. LoadWB (prepay=Y)
28. twizzle
29. nOw2
30. Cass
31. Jiminy
32. Codesmith
33. pVC
34. avanham
34 potential buyers, good work people! :)
I heard about this list from AmigaDave (thanks mate!) when he posted about it on AW.net, but I didn't realise it had gotten so long. Anyway, I thought it was a good idea to let all Amiga users, not just those who use a.org, to make their voice heard about wanting the Amiga Guru Book, so I created an online petition and informed a number of Amiga websites about it. The petition link is here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?4m1ga123&1
Thanks to all of those who have already signed it. It's currently got 33 signatures, and it was only created about 8 hours ago. Pretty good going I think. If you've signed the a.org list and haven't signed the petition yet, please do so, the combined forces of the a.org list and the new petition will make a much more compelling message. It is really quick to sign the petition too.
I posted news about the petition on the following Amiga websites (in no particular order):
amiga.org, amigaworld.net, amigans.net, aros-exec.org, English Amiga Board, arosworld.org, morphzone.org.
Those are all the Amiga websites I am a member of. Can members of amigaweb.net and other Amiga forums (ones in non-English languages for example, as they might have members who could make use of the English language version of the book) please spread the word about the petition.
As for the reply Hans got from Ralph:
"As I wanted the reprint to be of the highest possible
quality, print-on-demand was out of the question. Offset,
however, requires a certain minimum number of copies"
I wasn't aware that print-on-demand offered a lower quality of book, I'll have to look into that. In any case, signing the petition will help Ralph see that he has the numbers of buyers needed for a print run.
Thanks.
-
Well, my take on Ralph's decision to not publish his works appears to resonate from the following:
1) He was disrespected by someone who released a torrent file containing a scan of his creative work The Amiga Guru Book (1993).
2) He considers the market for this new book too small to go to print because the Offset requires a minimum amount of copies to be printed.
3) Providing anything other than a printed published version of his new book would not meet his quality standards.
4) Not releasing this new book will show solidarity with others who make a living through copyrighted material.
If you agree with him or not it is his decision to do with his work as he pleases. Just another blow to the Amiga community....
-
@Firedawg
5) Not releasing his new book tells people sitting on the fence that there really is no Amiga market.
6) Not releasing his new book takes away a resource that could have been used by people interested in writing programs for the amiga (how long have the RKMs been out of print for?), so that they go and write programs for something else instead.
Seriously, my only requirements are that it's legible, that the contents are accurate and reasonably free of typos, and that it doesn't fall apart inside of a year. A nice to have would be that it's ringbound so it stays open next to my keyboard. The book is going to get coffee and pizza stains, it's going to get stuff written on the margins. It's a reference book, not a Gaugin.
-
Ofcourse he can do what he likes, but the only real reason I see is your point number 2 - the rest is just mumbojumbo as I see it.
I mean...
Point 1: if he knows who it is, why not sue the guy? Should be an easy win, right?
Point 3: there is really no difference between "deisgned for book" and "designed for PDF". It would be like saying "This music is designed for vinyl - not for CD". Claiming that there is much of a difference, in my view, is a kind of useless elitism, really. Oh, and I actually prefer PDFs that I can read on my tablet opposed to more dead trees filling up my shelves. PDFs are also searchable, which I like, and I can read them on whatever device _I_ like, be it my phone, tablet laptop or whatever. It works for other books, so why not this one?
Point 4: Not releasing the book doesnt show solidarity with anyone. If he want to show solidarity, he should sue the guy.
Personally I dont care one way or the other, I have the old book here somewhere (at least I used to have it) and would not buy the new one anyhow, unless ofcourse there was some online edition I could easily pay for and download. I really dont need more books, got too many already. :-)
-
kolla wrote:
Point 3: there is really no difference between "deisgned for book" and "designed for PDF". It would be like saying "This music is designed for vinyl - not for CD". Claiming that there is much of a difference, in my view, is a kind of useless elitism, really. Oh, and I actually prefer PDFs that I can read on my tablet opposed to more dead trees filling up my shelves. PDFs are also searchable, which I like, and I can read them on whatever device _I_ like, be it my phone, tablet laptop or whatever. It works for other books, so why not this one?
Online versions can have clickable links, source-code files of examples, etc. There is a difference, and yes, if clickable links were available, I would write differently too. Ralph seems to be the kind of person that wants to do things properly, or not at all.
I have a feeling that the real sticking point is the timing of this torrent file, days before he was going to release the book. That and the belief that this guy did so knowing that an updated release was in the works.
Hans
-
Ralph seems to enjoy keeping his work from the Amiga community. I'd love to have a couple GURU Roms for a few systems, but he seems to be willing to let that tidbit of work go the way of the dodo.
His attitude is kinda like (even though I didn't expect to make any money, I'm going to stick it to every member of the Amiga because one guy dissed me).
Maybe someone should make up a rumor that they cracked the Guru rom code so it could be written to a standard eeprom without having to use that goofy extra circuit board. See if he comes out the next day and says, "I was going to release a new batch of ROMS but someone pissed me off, so forget about it".
-
kolla wrote:
In other news, reprints of the Complete Works of William Shakespear have been cancelled due to the online existance of the said texts.
Mr. Shakespear has been unavailable for a comment. :roll:
Errr, not quite the same, but you get a silver star for effort.
Anyway, I do respect Ralph's stance on this to a degree. Some dipshyt knew the book was going to press and released a high-quality OCR PDF to the Internet -- a thumb of the nose towards Ralph and everyone else working on the project. But even more, it's a giant kick in the balls to those in the community who, like me, have waited for 15 years to get their hands on this book, in English, first-hand.
Ralph, this isn't about the arsehole who did this. This isn't about your creative work going unappreciated, nor about theft of intellectual property. THIS is much bigger than that. This is about your audience, your fans, your fellow Amigans who know, respect, and love your work. Those who share your enthusiasm and love for the platform and the community. Those who have held on because through thin and thinner because we truly believe in something here -- just like you. WE support you, WE care, and WE are who matter.
The one jack-ass who did this does not count. The many jack-asses who will download and use the copy of the old book do not count. Those who want the new book, a real book, with your real heart in it, THEY count.
Yes, some of us who have wanted this book forever may be tempted, even give in to the temptation, to download this pirated copy. But give any of them the chance and they will happily plonk down the money to buy the real deal.
Honestly, some may give up on the platform without your book. Sound extreme? This book reprint represented the opportunity to get a copy of the book without having to toil and tussle online to get one, or learn German. Admittedly, I have never seen a copy of this book, but what I know about it tells me that for someone wanting to program on the Amiga and know the system more intimately, this is the Holy Grail. And without that key, the Amiga becomes a dying philosophy with only a handful of followers and true believers. This would be like stripping the Bible out of Christianity, or the Torah out of Judaism.
Ralph, please reconsider. The sum of the parts is greater than the sum of the whole, and your book and knowledge represent a large part of our community. Whoever this arsehole is, giving into whatever his intentions may have been is hurting us all. I have emailed you in the past about your Guru Book, and you have been very cordial with me and stated your concerns and reasoning, and I respect that. There is a great demand for you and your work. Right now we have two lists going for people to show their support for you to complete this project. We're not above begging for this. In the words of Violent Femmes, "What do I have to do, to prove my love for you?" (hehehe Sorry, lost it there for a second.)
This is a horrible let-down. Please don't let whoever was involved in the act ruin it for those who give a shyt.
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Thanks Ralph, thanks for nothing!
You should change your name to Eric "screw you guys, i'm going home" Cartman ...
nuff said ... I have no more time to waste on this matter!
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ZeBeeDee wrote:
Thanks Ralph, thanks for nothing!
You should change your name to Eric "screw you guys, i'm going home" Cartman ...
nuff said ... I have no more time to waste on this matter!
Nice. now are Ralph the bad guy.... :/
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1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
27. LoadWB (prepay=Y)
28. twizzle
29. nOw2
30. Cass
31. Jiminy
32. Codesmith
33. pVC
34. avanham
35. zurt
-
Go ahead and put my name on the list too, but I'm not bending over for it either.
EDIT: keeping my negativity to myself (:
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koaftder wrote:
For crying out loud, this book isn't a holy grail. There is nothing in it that you can't find else where in pieces. It doesn't even cover the whole platform. It's worth paying for but it's not worth praying for. Go ahead and put my name on the list too, but I'm not bending over for it either.
Um, you could just go with it for a minute instead of being prickish about it.
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LoadWB wrote:
Ralph, this isn't about the arsehole who did this. This isn't about your creative work going unappreciated, nor about theft of intellectual property. THIS is much bigger than that. This is about your audience, your fans, your fellow Amigans who know, respect, and love your work. Those who share your enthusiasm and love for the platform and the community. Those who have held on because through thin and thinner because we truly believe in something here -- just like you. WE support you, WE care, and WE are who matter.
Couldn't have put it better myself, other than to add that Ralph still gets a benefit out of publishing the book. If we get the necessary numbers for an offset printing run, and considering that the level of interest for this book was gauged back in 2007, which must have shown enough interest to make a print run successful, I'd say we can all get what we want here, including Ralph.
zurt wrote:
35. zurt
Nice one zurt. Will you sign the petition too?
http://www.petitiononline.com/4m1ga123/petition.html
51 signatures now. Thanks to all Amiga people. Lets show Ralph how many people still want the new Amiga Guru Book.
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Despite my disdain for online petitions, I've signed.
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Matt_H wrote:
Despite my disdain for online petitions, I've signed.
You beauty! Nice one squire! :-D
I know signing petitions can seem like a futile gesture, but they really can make a difference, especially in cases like this when all that's really holding back the publication of the book is the perception the interest isn't there, which it clearly is. Better to take positive action as well I reckon. Keep it up Amigans!
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In a time when it seems like I'm fighting collectors left and right and searching the web for documents and info for developing, this book seemed like it would be a godsend - a lot of the info in one place.
That said - I respect the mans decision, and can see where he's coming from. I hope at some point he changes his mind.
Positivity may not change the future - but negativity certainly will.
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kolla wrote:
So why is it cancelled? I dont really see the answer there.
Ralph's got a bug up his butt because some idiot distributed an early version of his work.
Typical Amiga state-of-play. I expected more from Ralph, but this isn't the first time an Amiga developer has cracked the sh*ts over "hurt pride".
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@ HenryCase
Signatures 28-29 appear to be duplicates.
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Matt_H wrote:
@ HenryCase
Signatures 28-29 appear to be duplicates.
Good spot, thanks Matt_H. I've e-mailed the website technical support people so they can help me remove the duplicate.
There are over 85 legitimate signatures now. If we get over 169 signatures we can prove that the torrent of the book hasn't affected the possibility of a print run, as that is the number of people who e-mailed their support when the new print run was announced in 2007. Considering the petition has only been going for about a day we are on target for this, but I would ask again that if you put your name down on the list started in this thread please sign the petition as well so we can make the message that we want this book printed loud and clear. Thanks.
-
*Bump*
I don't like repeating myself again and again, so I'll make this brief. Over 110 signatures now. 170 signatures is the target so please sign the petition if you haven't done so (and if you'd like to see the book published, naturally!).
http://www.petitiononline.com/4m1ga123/petition.html
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1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
27. LoadWB (prepay=Y)
28. twizzle
29. nOw2
30. Cass
31. Jiminy
32. Codesmith
33. pVC
34. avanham
35. zurt
36. Phantom (Print that damn book, will ya?) :-D
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@Phantom, and any others that have not already signed the petition, here is the link (http://www.petitiononline.com/4m1ga123/petition.html) again.
Adding your name to this list is no longer necessary and you should sign the petition instead.
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@ amigadave
I've already singed the petition a couple of days ago.
LOL... I got it, that's not necessary really... damn... my Amiga is killing me.... :-P
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Signed.
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HenryCase wrote:
*Bump*
I don't like repeating myself again and again, so I'll make this brief. Over 110 signatures now. 170 signatures is the target so please sign the petition if you haven't done so (and if you'd like to see the book published, naturally!).
http://www.petitiononline.com/4m1ga123/petition.html
Only another 13 signatures needed to reach that 170 number. I wonder if this is going to make any difference?
I would really rather have a book instead of a 3 ring binder with a bunch of pdf's inside, but if Ralph still refuses to publish, what are we to do?
He must realize that he is forcing those that oppose piracy to consider it when he refuses to publish his work.
Damn Pirates! :madashell:
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1. TjLaZer
2. AltRN8
3. CountZero
4. Hans
5. tiffers
6. Tahoe
7. AmigaDave
8. AmigaHeretic
9. madsjm
10. MrZammler
11. Firedawg
12. Marcb
13. buzz
14. OSS542
15. Andeda
16. A6000
17. Splurge
18. Trekie_J
19. CaptainMooMoo
20. Matt_H
21. Gavilan
22. Fester
23. Nyle
24. ZeBeeDee
25. Webmany
26. Joe Torre (prepay=Y)
27. LoadWB (prepay=Y)
28. twizzle
29. nOw2
30. Cass
31. Jiminy
32. Codesmith
33. pVC
34. avanham
35. zurt
36. Phantom (Print that damn book, will ya?)
37. Mike
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I'll throw another piece on the 'lame excuse' heap. It's not like someone who'd have bought the book is happy with a {bleep}ty DIY printout of a PDF. That works for school textbooks you only use once but not for a guide you are going to use a lot and for a long time (or just to have it being pretty on the bookshelf =).
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amigadave wrote:
@Phantom, and any others that have not already signed the petition, here is the link (http://www.petitiononline.com/4m1ga123/petition.html) again.
Adding your name to this list is no longer necessary and you should sign the petition instead.
It's true that Phantom already signed the petition, though I agree with you amigadave, if you're going to sign one thing to register your wish for the book then make it the petition as everyone (not just amiga.org users) can join in. It was the idea started in this thread that inspired me to create the petition, so really its continuing success should be seen as amiga.org-inspired success! :-D Thanks TjLaZer.
AJCopland wrote:
Signed.
Thanks AJCopland! I feel like a song...
[Bette Midler]Did you ever know that you're my hero...[/Bette Midler] Got to stop channeling the spirit of Bette Midler! :crazy: :-D
odin wrote:
That works for school textbooks you only use once but not for a guide you are going to use a lot and for a long time (or just to have it being pretty on the bookshelf =).
You're right, a book is so much nicer to work with.
amigadave wrote:
Only another 13 signatures needed to reach that 170 number. I wonder if this is going to make any difference?
Make that 0 signatures needed! 171 signatures, we did it, well done people! Of course please still sign the petition if you still haven't done so and would like the book, every signature counts in our favour. I will now be e-mailing Ralph so that I can tell him how much his book still means to the Amiga community. The final publication decision still lies with him, but collectively we have shown that we'd much rather support the book author than the pirate.
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And 217 people have downloaded the pdf so far.
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Golem!dk wrote:
And 217 people have downloaded the pdf so far.
Considering how hard it is to get the real thing, it could be a panic driven decision, like 'if I don't get it now, I might never get the chance again'. The current state of affairs with the newly revised book only exacerbates this situation.
However, given the choice, what would you choose: a newly revised and improved book, or an old and poor quality pdf? No contest is there. Time will tell whether we get that choice.
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Golem!dk wrote:
And 217 people have downloaded the pdf so far.
I am one of those 217. But as I also have the dead tree version of the English Guru book I don't consider myself a pirate. I actually wanted to see what all the hype was about.
And no, I'm not selling the dead tree version; the book is not in a sellable state anymore anyway :)
greets,
Staf.
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Fats wrote:
I am one of those 217. But as I also have the dead tree version of the English Guru book I don't consider myself a pirate. I actually wanted to see what all the hype was about.
And no, I'm not selling the dead tree version; the book is not in a sellable state anymore anyway :)
So Fats, as someone who owns a copy of the first edition of the Amiga Guru Book can you tell me the sections you found the most useful? Or perhaps the whole book is full of useful information you can't get elsewhere? Just curious.
-
thats pretty sad.. not publishing will force people who want the book to download it........even for just curiosity..
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HenryCase wrote:
So Fats, as someone who owns a copy of the first edition of the Amiga Guru Book can you tell me the sections you found the most useful? Or perhaps the whole book is full of useful information you can't get elsewhere? Just curious.
I would be the part about the history of BCPL with amigaDOS and how it lead to the BPTR/BSTR implementation. Also the section about packets and handlers together with the example handler I found very interesting.
greets,
Staf.
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Im sure that many of us here have downloaded it, but are still ready to buy it if it was released.
-
Well, the petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/4m1ga123/petition.html) is almost at 200 now.
Hans
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Im sure that many of us here have downloaded it, but are still ready to buy it if it was released.
Why would anyone buy something they'd already downloaded? That doesn't make any sense all. It's never happened in the history of the universe ever and we need digital restrictions management on everything, and death penalty for copyright infringements...
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niklasni1 wrote:
Im sure that many of us here have downloaded it, but are still ready to buy it if it was released.
Why would anyone buy something they'd already downloaded? That doesn't make any sense all. It's never happened in the history of the universe ever and we need digital restrictions management on everything, and death penalty for copyright infringements...
Like someone already said here before,
Because a lousy pdf is just not the same than a REAL Amiga Guru book in the shelf.
-
I will agree with Andeda. Reading a PDF magazine or even worse a book it's pain in the eyes! I like better the "old" way, of printed.
-
:bump:
Now we have 209 signatures.
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Golem!dk wrote:
And 217 people have downloaded the pdf so far.
Hey Golem!dk, just wondered, how many people have downloaded the torrent since you posted this? The petition has reached 234 signatures now.
@all
Oh, and I'm doing another push for people to sign the petition. There is still hope that Ralph is reconsidering, the last e-mail I got from him was not discouraging.
-
I cant help but think that if they had not brought this up, hadly anyone would have known about the torrent
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JJ wrote:
I cant help but think that if they had not brought this up, hadly anyone would have known about the torrent
Personally, I would've bought the book had I seen an ad for it on amiga.org from say, amigakit. I wouldn't have even thought about looking for it in a torrent.
-
Like it has been stated i and alot of others including some of the Mods didnt even know the torrent existed in the first place. I also would have bought one... i hope he does reconsider.. Oh Well
-
The authors need to accept the money, people want to pay. It's a rare thing in business that customers ask the host to take their money for a product.
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@HenryCase
302 according to the tracker... sticking to my dead tree version here, should the revised edition be printed I'd probably buy a copy.
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@HenryCase
...The petition has reached 234 signatures now.
Good. I signed it fairly early on. Although it would be good if
there were a cheaper more flexible alternative, I think we should
be prepared for a production essentially like the 1993 version,
only sixty-some pages longer, and selling for $50-$70US (I paid
$50 or $60 for mine). I hope that a high percentage of the
petitioners are willing to pay that much.
Oh, and I'm doing another push for people to sign the petition. There is still hope that Ralph is reconsidering, the last e-mail I got from him was not discouraging.
Even better. You've done the community a service, however this
turns out.
(((Jeez. I gotta change my Avatar---that kid's almost four now!)))
-
So I taught myself to use a drill tonight (don't laugh--I was too busy schtupping my high school girlfriend to take a shop class) and finished towering my A1200. I'm anxious to start coding again, and this book would have been helpful. Oh well. Back to schtupping, I guess. ;-)
-
Any updates on this situation?
:afro:
-
I'd buy a dead tree vesion in an instant.
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pellerhead wrote:
I'd buy a dead tree vesion in an instant.
I HAVE a dead tree version and I'd buy a new one; that's why I don't see the basis for all this PDF fuss.
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Golem!dk wrote:
@HenryCase
302 according to the tracker... sticking to my dead tree version here, should the revised edition be printed I'd probably buy a copy.
Thanks Golem!dk. Incidentally, is it possible for me to see this number on the tracker (without downloading the torrent?)?
walter wrote:
@HenryCase
Even better. You've done the community a service, however this turns out.
Cheers man, I appreciate your approval! :-D
LoadWB wrote:
Any updates on this situation?
:afro:
See next post, but in short, progress is slow.
-
I'm restarting this campaign. Well I mean I never really stopped, but now I need some help again.
Let's get this out of the way now: I have been in contact with Ralph Babel, but progress has been slow. However, I do not see this as a bad sign.
The reason I am asking for help again is this: I saw two targets for the Amiga Guru Book petition, but I only mentioned one, and to be honest I thought the 170 signature target might have been overly optimistic at first (before the numbers didn't stop going up).
The second signature target I saw was to surpass the number of people who had downloaded the infamous torrent, which is around 302 people now. At the time of writing this, the petition has reached 247 signatures even though I haven't done much to promote it since we reached the 170 target.
So, a couple of things:
1. Please don't download the torrent unless you're confident it'll be the only way to easily obtain the material in the near future (the book still could be published at this point, Ralph has not told me otherwise).
2. If you haven't signed the petition yet and want to see Amiga programmers get access to one of the best (maybe even THE best, according to owners of the book) Amiga programming resources around, sign the petition.
I am duplicating this message on the following Amiga websites (in alphabetical order): amigans.net, amiga.org, amigaworld.net, AROS-Exec.org, AROSWorld.org, eab.abime.net (English Amiga Board), MorphZone.org, UtilityBase.com. I know this topic has been discussed on other Amiga forums, so please pass on this 'drumming up support' message to the places it needs to be heard. Also, does anyone know if there is a central point to discuss this issue with all those involved with UAE ports? The Amiga Guru Book should be handy for the emulation crew as well.
That's all for now. Sign on (you crazy diamonds!). ;-)
http://www.petitiononline.com/4m1ga123/petition.html