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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: marcfrick2112 on May 08, 2008, 12:00:53 AM
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Hello all, Well I tried to upgrade the RAM on my CyberStorm Mk-III in my A4000T today. Now it won't boot up. All I get is one quick screen flash, then just a black screen, I can hear the SCSI drives spin up and click initially. It won't boot with a floppy either. OK, I had to unplug all SCSI cables, as well as the 4000T's port module to get access to the CS. I am sure that it's something that I missed while putting it back together. I removed all Zorro cards, and made sure the CS is in firmly. Anything else I should try?
I hate to ask, but if I had connected the 2 ribbon cables to the port module wrong, could I have blown something out? Just once right after upgrading the RAM on the CS, it booted up, but the mouse wasn't working, now it doesn't boot at all...
There is a guy who could probably repair it here in the states, but maybe you guys have some ideas?
Here's what I know about the machine: A4000T (AT) OS 3.1 80MB RAM CS MK-III, SCSI HDD about 500MB x 2, SCSI CD-ROM, SCSI CD-r, using the CS's SCSI ... Video Toaster/Flyer now removed...
Thanks for any help....
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Hey Marc,
I feel for you. I am working on so many Amiga projects right now and it can be very frustrating when things that worked a few minutes ago, suddenly don't work any more. When that happens to me I just go work on a different project, or quit for the night. I guess that explains the dozen Amiga projects that I have unfinished around here. Oh wait... I did get the CD32 w/SX32 Pro installed and working after having to replace the 2.5" HD because the old one would not format successfully after ten tries.
I might suggest that if you have an emergency floppy to start your A4kT w/CSPPC from maybe you should remove everything except the CSPPC and see if it will boot from the floppy disk.
Then start replacing everything else one piece at a time starting with the hard drive connected to the CSPPC and ending with the last Zorro card. Start up the Amiga after each item is installed to make sure that item is not causing the problem. It is a hassle, but there is a method to my madness.
Send me a picture of your ribbon cable installation on the A4kT module and I will check it against mine that is open now.
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also try removing the RAM from the CS card since that was the new addition... best of luck mate!!
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Sounds like a bad contact between the CS and one of the SIMM banks. Take them out and reinsert.
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Thanks for the advice, everyone. I took everything out but the CyberStorm, still no joy, it won't try to boot from the floppy. Tried removing and re-inserting the SIMMs, tried several different sets... and with no RAM on the CS at all. Ugh, not looking good. OK, what's left that could keep it from booting up? If the ports module was not in right, or If the motherboard RAM was not making good contact would that do it? Although, the motherboard RAM was working before I got the bright idea to upgrade the CS RAM.
I hope I didn't wreck my CS ....
:cry:
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@marcfrick:
one of the worst weekend in my entire life: for some reasons I had opened my A4000T (maybe I was adding a SCSI terminator) and noticed that the coin battery was not soldered but in a battery-holder (sorry I don't know the right term)...since it was discharged I tried to remove it...but doing so the battery-holder detached form the board. Even though I did not need it (I was using external batteries) I decided to repair it. So I dismounted everything took the motherboard to a nearby electronics shop and in few minutes they resoldered in place the holder. I returned home, re-assembled the Amiga and... blank screen. No sign of life. I felt completely lost.
My dream machine dead. For 2 days I tried and checked the cpu board connectors, video module and disk module connections, SCSI connectors, changed cpu boards, simms...
then I saw it... it was one of the 50 pin ribbon cables connecting the motherboard with the small board which terminates the SCSI bus. I reconncted it leaving the leftmost pins unconnected (so any pin was in a wrong hole).
It was hard to see, inside the case. Corrected and the Amiga came back, alive n' kickin'.
So my advice is to recheck connections of the disk module, if they're wrong prevent the entire system from booting. In my case the wrong connection didn't do damages, hopefully this your case too.
I told you my story to restore your hope!
good luck!
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Hi DarkCoder and everyone ... very grateful for the advice ... Sadly, still no luck. I stripped the machine completely, cleaned all contacts with tuner/contact cleaner (the $30.00 per can stuff techs. use, not the useless junk that RadioShaft sells) tried re-seating all SIMMs, the CyberStorm, pulled, reconnected, and checked all ribbon cables, re-seated the ROMs... she's still dead...
OK, before I start 'crying in my beer' If the disk module was connected wrong, could it have blown out? Or would it have blown out something on the motherboard? Could the CyberStorm have gotten blown out? Any final ideas before I decide weather to pay even more $$$ to someone who may not even be able to repair it,.... or put it up in my attic ... (my attic is turning into a funeral home for electronics ...)
I don't know what's worse, losing the Amiga I wanted more than any other.... or having Toaster/Flyer/TBC IV/PAR cards quite literally gathering dust.
Again, thanks to everyone for the help. Now, if you'll excuse me, I gonna get really drunk...
:boohoo:
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make sure you didn't leave anything rattling around...no orphan screws that might be lodged on or under the motherboard.
I'd suspect the daughter cards...
make sure they're back on the motherboard properly if you removed them.
make sure they aren't touching the edge of your processor card at some point.
make sure the insulating paper backing on the audio card is in tact or add an index card or something between it and the scsi card.
check the orientation of your 4000T scsi and floppy cables and that the floppy cable is seated both on the card and on the floppy.
make sure you haven't managed to remove/lose the little red grounding wire from the audio card...and that you reattached it when you put the machine back together.
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also make sure you don't have anything in the bottom most slot that's rubbed up against the wires in that battery connector!
I've seen where boards that have metal plates on the back up against that connector and it was causing a ground....potentially sucking lots of power through the power supply connection and causing even more damage.
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Thanks Sprocket, I checked tonight, I'll double-check tommorow in better light....
BUT, have some more questions for you guys. I'm pretty sure my power supply is suspect, ... in fact, it's pretty much dead, ATM. OK, is the PSU in an A4000T standard? using a multimeter on the PSU just before it went, I wasn't getting +12V on the yellow wire, more like 8V (on the 4-pin molex connectors) . Is it common, or even possible, that a PSU can 'start to go bad' before it finally dies? If, by some merciful chance, this is my problem, how hard is it to replace the 4000's PSU? Many Many Thanks everyone.
Marc
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The A4000T have a bog-under-powered AT PSU. 8V in the +12V line? That doesn't sound right.
You'll expect problems in the SCSI chain with those low voltage rates (the terminators don't react the way they need).
Strip the PSU out, put some electric drain device in the +5V line (a car 50W lamp, for example) and turn it on. Read the voltages again to be sure. IF no right, swap it for a better power supply.
After that, be absolutely sure that nothing is in short-circuit when attaching everything back (one board at a time). Notice the A4000T (as any A3000) don't boot without a terminator on the SCSI cable and the straps in the right position for your setup.
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@rkauer: Thanks for the tips... I will pull the PSU and test tommorow, busy getting drunk tonight :) :pint:
edit; Actually, I decided to un-plug everything and try the PSU by itself right after I read your post, checked the voltages ... now I am even more confused. OK, all I had handy for an electric drain was a 15V DC fan, I got +5V on the +5V line, exactly ... but the +12V line read +11V ... As always, more questions, I got +8V from the 12V line when everything was connected, how power-hungry is the CyberStorm? Mind you, I tried both with and without RAM installed. The 4000T motherboard has the max. 16MB installed. Also, how picky are the terminators in a SCSI chain, in other words, do they need full power to work at all? I had read that if the SCSI chain(s) on a 4000T aren't terminated properly, the machine won't boot. (Doh! sorry just read ALL of your last post, sorry too tired :)
I think it still could be a PSU problem, but I can't seem to make 100% certain...
I know my dad's accelerated A1200 had lots of probs. until I got him a dedicated PSU (actually MADE for A500/A1200, would you believe, Applied Engineering..)
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Hi Marc
I seen from your signature that you have other 4000s. Why don't you test the Cyberstorm separately on one of them? Conversely, use the C= cpu card to test the 4000T, in case of damage it's better to lose the C='s than the cyberstorm.
I also point to your attention the fact that Vesalia has in stock both replacement video and disk module for the 4000T. They are original parts, and rather cheap IMHO.
keep fightin'!
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My A4000T with CSPPC stopped booting due to the +5V user going too low with everything plugged in. Sometimes it would not boot at all, other times it booted with the mouse not working (as you have said you have seen).
It always booted as long as I removed the keyboard, this sometimes dropped the +5V user voltage below usable when connected. Maybe you could try to boot with no mouse or keyboard also connected.
This seems to occur after I use the DVD drive continuously for a period of time or did many reboots one after the other.
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@marcfrick2112:
Did you get your machine up and running? If you did, can you tell me what you did to make it run again?
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I reckon it's broken beyond repair. I'll take it off your hands for nothing if you like. :-P
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Kristian95: Well, I don't have the skills to do serious mobo-type repairs on miggies, so...
ajlwalker: give away even a broken 4000T, not on yer life :-D
Well, as mentioned in another thread, I sent it in to Ed Jeffries in Mission, KS to be repaired. Can't remember all that was wrong, but my putting the ports module in backwards fried a chip and some caps on the mobo, according to Ed.
I am sure that some Amiga's can actually be 'beyond repair' but this guy in KS has some real skill.. He already repaired a 4000 desktop w/WarpEngine for me.
Now, I just need to make room for the monster w/ its' 3 external drives :)
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@marcfrick2112:
Ah, that is probably exactly what is wrong with my Miggy too then (I did the mirror insert of the ports module (the right cable in the right socket put flipped the cable).
Can you please PM me contact info for Ed Jeffries?
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Kristian 95:
OK, PM sent... Hmm, since his contact info is already on amiganews.de, I might as well post it here, I am sure others' may find it useful...
n USA Ed Jeffries with his company "Video Lab" offers the repair of Amiga 4000-motherboards an.
Contact:
Video Lab - Ed Jeffries
6909 Johnson Dr.
Lower-level
Mission, KS. 66202
Phone: 913-403-0045
:-)
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marcfrick2112 wrote:
Thanks Sprocket, I checked tonight, I'll double-check tommorow in better light....
BUT, have some more questions for you guys. I'm pretty sure my power supply is suspect, ... in fact, it's pretty much dead, ATM. OK, is the PSU in an A4000T standard? using a multimeter on the PSU just before it went, I wasn't getting +12V on the yellow wire, more like 8V (on the 4-pin molex connectors) . Is it common, or even possible, that a PSU can 'start to go bad' before it finally dies? If, by some merciful chance, this is my problem, how hard is it to replace the 4000's PSU? Many Many Thanks everyone.
Marc
I see you've gotten the A4000T fixed which is GREAT. To answer your question, AT power supplies especially can have portions start to fail before they goes fully bad.
Without good power an Amiga won't run reliably. I don't have an A4000T but there are adapters for newer power supplies to adapt them to the Amiga power connector. I don't know which fit the A4000T case. I've never been lucky enough to own an A4000T.
My A1200 runs of a fine used ATX power supply so I don't have to worry about too many accessories.
:-D
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The A4000T use a regular (underpowered) AT PSU. It's dead easy to adapt an ATX in place.
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Hi Marc,
I only just caught up with this thread. Really unfortunate RE the Module cables. I did give someone the correct orientation back a while on this very forum. Shame you hadn`t seen it prior to fux0ring it all up. :-(
Still, at least you got her repaired & I guess the Ram upgrade does now work for you?
All the Best,
Charlie :-)
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Hey Charlie,
Well, I saw that thread, there's just so much crammed into that 4000T that I couldn't tell the cables were connected wrong. Ugh... And the RAM I got from you always worked, even before my failed attempt to upgrade the CS RAM. Now all is well, just need to get a few more power cords/free oulets to install the beast permanantly... 6 hard drives, sheesh!
:-D
Marc
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@marcfrick2112
Please let me know exactly what ICs were fried from this once you know :)
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Marc,
Be sure you have a bloody good PSU to run six hard drives. I`d be loathe to load my 1KW PC & PC Quad SLI psu with six hard drives ontop of an CD2 DUO Quad 2.4Ghz to 3.87Ghz Overclock with SLI GX2 Graphics! :-o
Hard drives HAMMER the PSU for breakfast......
Get them off your Tower PSU into an External Box with it`s own PSU. Trust me on this one! ;-)
Best Wishes,
Charlie
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Kin-Hell:
No worries, mate... Since I had to pay to get the beast repaired anyway, I had Ed put 3 of the drives into ext. enclosures, all with separate PSU's and fans...
The 4000T has 'only' 3 hard drives internally... 2 system drives, one for the PAR. :-D