Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: rrete on May 05, 2008, 06:19:16 PM
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Do you think that several 2nd hand pieces of hardware for our amigas are too expensive?
68K Acelerators 100,200,300 €
PPC's ¡¡¡400/500 €!!! FOR 233 Mhz
Amiga 4000 ppc, pIV, paloma, 128 Mb, HD and net card and some thing more up to 1000 €!
Videocards 100 €, PVI 250 €!
And the worst is: ¡we pay this prices! :crazy:
Do you think that is normal?
I'm becaming crazy
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Are we became crazy?
They set us up the bomb.
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Some new amiga hardware could maybe change the hole thing
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I would have to say yes :-D
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Are we became crazy?
make sure it's a ppc accelerator not a pcp accelerator. easy mistake to make. ;-)
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yes and no.... the 2060 I got a while ago sold originally for >1000DM == >500 euro
I got it for less then 200 euro.... so considering inflation, considerably less then the original price - more than scrap... yes of course but hey :-)
Tom UK
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to spend hundreds of euros for hardware that can fail on the very next day, yes thats crazy, but what the h**ll, you only live once.. :crazy:
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Yep my last bout of insanity was when I bought a second hand PPC card for $850 only for it to die a few months later... That was in 2000. Never again...
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x56h34 wrote:
Are we became crazy?
They set us up the bomb.
It's you !!
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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Yeah, it's crazy... But not really any more crazy than any other collectors. There are three classes of people driving up prices... We just have a few different groups that look for different items and they don't understand each other.
1) Nostalgia gamers -- They buy up the A500, 600, 1200, CD32 that they wanted/had back in the day. Typically they want a nice rig, but something that is highly usable (not tricked out to the point that it can't play games). In a bidding war for an item, they're likely to be the first to drop out. They're fairly oblivious to the fuss over high-ticket items, as what they want are the fairly common rigs of the day.
2) Actual Amiga Users -- They have the crazy custom A1200, A3000 and A4000 towers, CSPPC/Blizzards, Mediators, etc. They use them, and are kindred spirits and helpers to group 1 and call group 3 crazy, and hate them for driving up the prices on stuff they want to use.
3) Collectors -- These are the people who wanted that high-end Amiga back in the day. Now they have the means get it, and the price tag doesn't scare them that much. They don't have a lot of plans to use the machine besides just the joy of putting it together and occasionally firing it up for some silly thing or another, just to keep it in working order.
Groups 2 and 3 clash a lot, because they want a lot of the same items.
The collectors can't understand why someone would seriously want to use an Amiga as a main computer. They think it's insane!
And the users can't understand why someone would want to spend that much money on something they won't use much. They think it's insane!
Hence, you get posts like this, asking if we're crazy. I don't think we are, we just don't understand each other... :lol:
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Ilwrath wrote:
Yeah, it's crazy... But not really any more crazy than any other collectors. There are three classes of people driving up prices... We just have a few different groups that look for different items and they don't understand each other.
1) Nostalgia gamers -- They buy up the A500, 600, 1200, CD32 that they wanted/had back in the day. Typically they want a nice rig, but something that is highly usable (not tricked out to the point that its can't play games). In a bidding war for an item, they're likely to be the first to drop out. They're fairly oblivious to the fuss over high-ticket items, as what they want are the fairly common rigs of the day.
2) Actual Amiga Users -- They have the crazy custom A1200, A3000 and A4000 towers, CSPPC/Blizzards, Mediators, etc. They use them, and are kindred spirits and helpers to group 1 and call group 3 crazy, and hate them for driving up the prices on stuff they want to use.
3) Collectors -- These are the people who wanted that high-end Amiga back in the day. Now they have the means get it, and the price tag doesn't scare them that much. They don't have a lot of plans to use the machine besides just the joy of putting it together and occasionally firing it up for some silly thing or another, just to keep it in working order.
Groups 2 and 3 clash a lot, because they want a lot of the same items.
The collectors can't understand why someone would seriously want to use an Amiga as a main computer. They think it's insane!
And the users can't understand why someone would want to spend that much money on something they won't use much. They think it's insane!
Hence, you get posts like this, asking if we're crazy. I don't think we are, we just don't understand ourselves... :lol:
Hmm.. i just cant make up my mind to which group i belong :-D
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platon42 wrote:
x56h34 wrote:
Are we became crazy?
They set us up the bomb.
It's you !!
You have no chance to survive make your time.
Move every 'zig'!
For great justice!
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To pay $200-$300 for A1200 with an 030, scsi and 8-16 mb RAM is not crazy: you can play any Amiga game ever made, you have some good graphics software like dpaint, ppaint brilliance, lightwave, good music software like soundstudio, protracker, bars and pipes, good multimedia software like Scala. This means you can have a lot of fun playing some very playable games and you can create some semi-professional graphics and music and put it all together to play back on your tv or digitize the ouptut on pc as MPEG. Great for cartoons with sound, and much easier for a home user to do than PC equivalents.
But what i think is crazy is paying 1000's for a tricked-up "high-end Amiga" whose purpose was to basically display 24 bit images, 16 bit sound and mpeg1 quality video, you know stuff that the native chipsets don't offer, but PC hardware is MUCH better at, even 10 year old PC hardware. Some are curiouys to see os4 but really its about 10 years too late..
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@stefcep2: Good points... but really, 8-16MB for Lightwave?? Even with 64MB, I still couln't load one scene from LightROM 6, now with 128MB I can load it, still horribly slow to render...
I wonder, if people would refuse to pay these insane prices, would the average price go down over time?? All I can say is to just Keep an eye out for Amiga's/Amiga hardware wherever, whenever.... ask friends/ememies, etc.
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x56h34 wrote:
Are we became crazy?
They set us up the bomb.
Make your time, for god's sake make your time.
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I wonder, if people would refuse to pay these insane prices, would the average price go down over time?? All I can say is to just Keep an eye out for Amiga's/Amiga hardware wherever, whenever.... ask friends/ememies, etc.
Dunno, prices will only come back down to earth when supply over extends demand. Since hardware failure is a fact of life, demand is going to have to drop faster then hardware failure. Once that does happen, who left is going to care?
Dammy
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Obiously the prices depend on demand. But Amiga hardware is the unique that gets more expensive "throught" :-? the years. We are buying, now in the 21th century, "obsolete hard" than new hard for pc's of course.
Example: CV-64 3D without SC 175 € PCI-E 512 MB TV out 35 €
Is like ISA/PCI cards was very expensive that actual ones or a 386/486/PI more expensive that P4 dualcore.
I'm the first that pay those prices, look at signature but if i think with sense i'd say "i don't must pay this astronomic prices"
Only live once but ...
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At one time (not all at once)
I've had A1000, A500, CDTV, A1200, A3000, A2500, A4000D, T, PPC cards Flyer systems, and the CD32 with FMV.
The Amiga for me was the best option when I was young since I wanted to be an animator and wanted a new computer as I was outgrowing my C-64.
For pencil testing alone it was worth it.
I've sold all my Amiga stuff and will keep one A1200 that I'm rebuilding as my Retro games, tinkering machine.
Dunno if this is an addiction but why is it cool when folks collect Nintendo or sega consoles and the like... but weird to collect Amiga hardware?
I'm realizing that a REAL amiga can be quite a pain especially in the US where we don't have scart, and sourcing a modern RGB display is virtually impossible.
Even when I finish tuning this 1200 don't know if I'll hang onto it.
For those on a serious budget, yet wanting a great all in one AMIGA retro game experience get an XBOX mod it and you'll be in heaven. (Media center, usb support, games up the wazoo)Without the crippling windows OS a modded xbox is very Amiga like in spirit. There is even good hardfile support and you can use USB keyboard and mouse, built in ethernet, DVD drive 64 megs, component video out and decent CD32 support with a samsung DVD drive.
I recently took my Amiga drive image (dating back to my toaster days) and dropped it on my xbox, image fx worked, Distant suns, Final writter and HD loader games all worked great.
MY point here is that I'm moving onto mini-mig type devices and emulation, and support those initiatives as it seems clear officcial machines won't come out again.
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..I think that we Amiga owners are going to be quite rich in twenty - thirty years, becouse our machines will become really rare cyber antiquites.. believe it or not, but when something is rare (and legendary), it`s price is going to rise.. the only matter is time.. :-) the same thing happens with WW2 military antiquites (german especially..)
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Quite true, the Amiga is a collectable. Twnety years from now shopping channels will be selling them encased in plastic to protect them from the elements.
This one just screams Amiga
(http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/post-steampunkmonmod.jpg)
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Answering the topic question...
This "trend" indicate a need for new HARDWARE, people would like to buy a new PPC card or even new mobo with 060 compatible processor. Nothing amazing ;).
And some nice software too :-D
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x56h34 wrote: Quote: Are we became crazy? They set us up the bomb. It's you !! You have no chance to survive make your time.
All your base are belong to us!
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Short answer, yes.
Long answer, yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees
Really long answer, a shark ppc+ would help!
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@ llwrath
You need at least one more catagory: Rescuers.
I'm a user but I have rescued more Amigas than I can use at once. I find them sometimes for free and can't stand the notion that they might be lost. Then I spend money (not too much) expanding them in a way unique to the others in the collection. I treasure all of them.
I wouldn't mind parting with a few, but, I can't find anyone who would value them as they deserve to be.
Also, Amigas are trapped by their video output. It's not too tough to find a 500, but, displays that will do it justice are becoming rare and expensive for a 20 year old machine.
One last thought. Many ppl seem to be concerned about Amiga hardware failures. I've been an Amiga user since '88, and haven't seen any catastrophic failures.
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RE:Displays, what's wrong with a good old TV?
But yeah, the displays are the hardest thing to maintain I would imagine...
Interesting article though, my take is that I don't participate in buying them: A. because I can't afford and B. I think its ridiculous...! So yeah... Maybe I will get a NATAMI.
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Speaking of displays, I notice that Tenacious, you have a G-LOCK, how does it's Component output look on an LCD? Have you ever tried?
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Tenacious wrote:
I'm a user but I have rescued more Amigas than I can use at once. I find them sometimes for free and can't stand the notion that they might be lost. Then I spend money (not too much) expanding them in a way unique to the others in the collection. I treasure all of them.
You're the Amiga Jesus! :-D
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moto
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Andeda wrote:
Hmm.. i just cant make up my mind to which group i belong :-D
Yes, that proves you are crazzzzy :roll:
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I have noticed that prices on e-bay for PPC cards is coming down. Not sure if it was a fluke, but a 040 with 160Mhz PPC went for under $300
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marcfrick2112 wrote:
@stefcep2: Good points... but really, 8-16MB for Lightwave?? Even with 64MB, I still couln't load one scene from LightROM 6, now with 128MB I can load it, still horribly slow to render...
Really? Wow I'd never known an Amiga program needing more than 8 MB. My scenes must be relatively simple. Rendering time is a problem though I agree, but for by turning some of the options off it can make a big difference. In such cases I'd use an emulator
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motorollin wrote:
Tenacious wrote:
I'm a user but I have rescued more Amigas than I can use at once. I find them sometimes for free and can't stand the notion that they might be lost. Then I spend money (not too much) expanding them in a way unique to the others in the collection. I treasure all of them.
You're the Amiga Jesus! :-D
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moto
Except that Tenacious really exists. :-D
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Xamiche wrote:
motorollin wrote:
Tenacious wrote:
I'm a user but I have rescued more Amigas than I can use at once. I find them sometimes for free and can't stand the notion that they might be lost. Then I spend money (not too much) expanding them in a way unique to the others in the collection. I treasure all of them.
You're the Amiga Jesus! :-D
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moto
Except that Tenacious really exists. :-D
We don't know that... other than some vague written text on this forum... there is no actual evidence for Tenacious :-)
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I have a solution, if everyone here sells half of their Amiga collection on eBay the price will drop through the floor....good old supply and demand :-D
Come on guys, share the love :lol:
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bloodline wrote:
Xamiche wrote:
motorollin wrote:
Tenacious wrote:
I'm a user but I have rescued more Amigas than I can use at once. I find them sometimes for free and can't stand the notion that they might be lost. Then I spend money (not too much) expanding them in a way unique to the others in the collection. I treasure all of them.
You're the Amiga Jesus! :-D
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moto
Except that Tenacious really exists. :-D
We don't know that... other than some vague written text on this forum... there is no actual evidence for Tenacious :-)
OMG...the Tenacious Code.
I think I 'are become crazy'. I 'accidentally' bid on an A590 HD on eBay the other night. So much for getting rid of all my Amiga equipment. :lol:
Though I did kind of justify it to myself. The A590 will serve as a better board for my A500 tower project than the SCRAM 500. By virtue of the fact the RAM chips for an A590 are much cheaper and easier to find than the ZIP chips that the SCRAM uses. Saves me having to build that SIMM to ZIP converter.
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not really. the hardware is cheaper in most cases, than what it originally cost way back. I think most of the newbies to Amiga that never owned Amigas in 80s/90s fail to understand this. Look at some old magazines and see what hardware cost back then. And since nothing new has been produced (hardly, esp for accel boards) then you know the answer. Some supply & demand. The GVP boards are still great and don't break down.
By the way, I would say things a CHEAPER.
t4. :-D
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It's not as simple as comparing a price in 1990 to one today when deciding if the hardware is more expensive. You have to consider depreciation and the prices of the Amiga contemporaries, today. It's a comparative thing. In 1990 a new PC would cost around $2500. An Amiga 4000 cost around $2400. Today you couldn't give away that 1990 PC, yet the Amiga 4000 will still sell for $1000. This is what people are referring to when they say Amiga equipment is expensive. When they say 'Damn Amiga stuff is expensive' what they mean is, damn this stuff has not depreciated the way you'd expect old computer equipment to.
In some cases the equipment is worth more now than when it was new. A Blizzard 603e Power Board w/ 120 MHz 603e cost $399.00USD in 1997. Today you'd be lucky to get one for less than twice that price. I've seen them sell for over 1k$. Toastscan Scandoubler Flicker Fixer. Originally $159 retail. The last one I saw sell, went for $910.
These are the pieces of equipment people are referring to. Not just some $10 Amiga 500 you can get at a flea market. So I would say some things are cheaper. like the Computers themselves, but some things are much more expensive, such as Amiga expansions.
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Amigans always were a bit crazy. The early 90s Amiga scene had a wild side. Except for professional video toaster users, there was really no practical justification for spending the fantastic amount of money that a tricked out Amiga system cost at the time except that you liked it so much. The $450 or so I've put into my A4000 pales in comparison to what an A4000 with a Toaster and RTG card and a SCSI card would have cost in say 1995.
Are we so crazy? Yes and no. $910 for a Toaster Scan is as foolish as crazy. So much more cool Amiga gear you could have gotten for that money. For example, an A4000T Toaster Flyer system sold for $610 a few days ago. $300 left for pocket change. To whoever bought the the Toast Scan for $910, all I can say is fool, fool, fool.
Then again, I bought a 2632 memory expansion for well under $100 last year and one sold recently for around $260 so it looks like it wasn't such a bad investment and money well spent. Gold only went from $700 to $900 and ounce and most real estate around here has gone down in value, not up, so in an in investment sense--something to spend your extra money on--it doesn't seem so crazy. And so much more fun and interesting than most investments.
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Are we so crazy? Yes and no. $910 for a Toaster Scan is as foolish as crazy. So much more cool Amiga gear you could have gotten for that money. For example, an A4000T Toaster Flyer system sold for $610 a few days ago. $300 left for pocket change. To whoever bought the the Toast Scan for $910, all I can say is fool, fool, fool.
Exactly. Even if that auction was real, a Toastscan (or *any* Amiga scandoubler, let alone a PIV) hasn't sold for nearly so much before or since, so I don't think it's representative of reality. While I agree that the price of expansions (and certain Amiga models) has gone up significantly, the ebay market fluctuates pretty wildly. (It really sucks when you want a particular expansion at the exact same time as 6 other people...)
The A2000 seems to be a "hot item" ATM... (http://cgi.ebay.com/Upgraded-Amiga-2000-System-with-LOTS-of-Extras-22mbRam_W0QQitemZ150240579668QQihZ005QQcategoryZ4193QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) You could hardly give them away a few years ago. On the other hand, unexpanded A4ks appear to have held a more level value.
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Amigas can be a great little earner if done right. I sold 90% of my collection recently and made nearly 3 times what I paid for them originally. And that was without really trying. I turned them into a nice new Fender Stratocaster and some home recording equipment so I'm certainly happy with the increase in value. My Amiga 1200 sold for $455AU. I was quite shocked at that. I started it on ebay at $90 and was hoping I might get $150-$200. People just go nuts on ebay.
Anyone paying $910 for a toastscan SD/FF is certainly a fool, but that's not so crazy compared to the price trends I've seen lately. I'm seeing sales like that all the time. Especially with Blizzard hardware. I've not seen a 603e sell for under $800 in the last few years.
Are we became crazy? I'd say that's a resounding yes.
:crazy:
Edit: Here's another toastscan SD/FF I just found on feebay. Nearly triple the original price.
ToastScan SD/FF (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=320232862700&Category=4193&_trksid=p3907.m29)
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Yeah and this is what $610 got someone:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320245931192&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320245931192&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011)
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Ami_GFX wrote:
Yeah and this is what $610 got someone:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320245931192&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320245931192&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011)
Lucky him. In my country you'd never get that for under 1k$. I'd love to buy an Amiga 4000 from the US or UK, but by the time I paid the shipping, it would have been cheaper to buy it here. :-(
You guys who live there sometimes don't appreciate how expensive Amiga gear can be outside your respective countries. I remember Alexh saying the a standard Amiga 1200 are as 'common as muck' and only worth about £30 or so. Maybe in the UK, but here they are much less common, and sell for much more.
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Usually they go for more here too--like around $800-900. Especially tricked out like this one with so much extra gear and all the documentation.
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Ami_GFX wrote:
Usually they go for more here too--like around $800-900. Especially tricked out like this one with so much extra gear and all the documentation.
$610 is a fantastic price. It makes me green with envy. :-D
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Amigas can be a great little earner if done right. I sold 90% of my collection recently and made nearly 3 times what I paid for them originally. And that was without really trying. I turned them into a nice new Fender Stratocaster and some home recording equipment so I'm certainly happy with the increase in value. My Amiga 1200 sold for $455AU. I was quite shocked at that. I started it on ebay at $90 and was hoping I might get $150-$200.
Congrats! It's a good thing to let go now and again, even better when it involves tripling your money and investing in yet another hobby. :D
People just go nuts on ebay.
Yeah, I recall auctioning a DCE internal SD/FF about five years ago, it sold for over double what they were still available for new. :crazy: Ridiculous. (Not that I complained too much...)
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Yeah, it sure is nice seeing things from the other end for a change, instead of paying out a kings ransom for the gear. :-D
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Ugh, unfortunately I allowed myself to get sucked in again... promised myself I'm DONE, just as soon as I find that sweet A2K accelerator... :lol:
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I don't think Amiga folks are crazy. Yea, prices for rare hardware can be pretty freaking expensive but compared to a lot of other hobbies it's pretty damn cheap. People drop thousands doing weird things to their vehicles. My neighbor just spent 4 grand on a set of rims for his crappy Nissan Altima. He spent 150 dollars for each tire too, nice and thin. For that kind of money I could buy a truck load of amiga gear.
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bloodline wrote:
Xamiche wrote:
motorollin wrote:
You're the Amiga Jesus! :-D
Except that Tenacious really exists. :-D
We don't know that... other than some vague written text on this forum... there is no actual evidence for Tenacious :-)
Blasphemy! He is evident through His great works!
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moto
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Amiga gear prices are pretty high, but only in comparison to PC gear which is worthless a year after you buy it. I probably should have asked for more money for the items I recently sold here, or I could have taken them to eBay where I have bought a lot of my stuff and paid the going rate, but I like the community here and wanted to offer it to my "fellow A.org members" first at reasonable prices. I think everyone has been happy with what they paid for what they got (that is everyone except the member who bought the Xetec expansion. It was opened and snagged by someone before it got to him and I am trying to track it down and get it back).
I still have a few items still for sale and will wait one more week before I send them to eBay.
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@ Crom00
Sorry to take so long, I was out of town. I haven't tested the G-Lock thoroughly yet. I also don't yet own an LCD TV, I will probably take the plunge in a month or so.
What I need is a non-traditional work area for many computers. Rather than a table top, I want the computers to surround a comfortable swivel chair. The A500s could be arranged vertically and cascaded back so all the keyboards are accessable. The monitors could be arranged in a U shape a little higher up. Yeah! A pod for a keyboard & mouse could rotate over my lap after I sit dowm. An Amiga environment! (and a few other machines, too) I could sit in the middle and boot them all up, test any configuration I want.
I can dream.
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@ motorollin & Xamiche
You guys know how to make a guy uncomfortable and speachless.
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amigadave wrote:
I probably should have asked for more money for the items I recently sold here, or I could have taken them to eBay where I have bought a lot of my stuff and paid the going rate, but I like the community here and wanted to offer it to my "fellow A.org members" first at reasonable prices. I think everyone has been happy with what they paid for what they got.
Very happy. The GVP HC+8 is a vast improvement over the A2091 that came with my A2500. Much faster, no more waiting 30 seconds to boot if the CD drive is empty and it works reliably with zip drives which means I can transfer files between my A2500, my A4000 and, through Winuae, my PC. Sometimes the small upgrades are the best and least expensive. I'm probably happier with this than whoever spent $910 on a Toastscan. Thanks Dave. :-) :-) :-)
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What year can be considered as the low point for the price of Amiga HW? More specifically the HW that now seems to cost ridiculously much. I guess the A500 price hasn't really started to go up.
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are we crazy? in some cases yes, in some cases no...
my basic take on it is something like this...
Machine___Base price___Expandability___Expansion price___Fesability
A500______Cheap________Poor/Mid_____Mid/Expensive____Poor
A600______Cheap________Poor_________Mid/Expensive____Poor
A1000*____Mid__________Poor/Mid______Mid/Expensive____Mid
A1200_____Cheap________Mid/Good_____Cheap/Expensive__Good
A2000_____Cheap/Mid____Good_________Cheap/Expensive__Mid/Good
A3000_____Mid__________Good_________Cheap/Expensive__Good
A4000_____Mid__________Good_________Cheap/Expensive__Good
CDTV______Cheap________Poor_________Expensive________Poor
CD32______Cheap________Poor/Mid_____Expensive________Poor - unless you just want CD games...
*collectors edition, but really, who'd say no to an A1000? ;-)
it only seems to become expensive if you start to take it to the limit yeah baby! ahem, anyway,
an A1200, 030 of some sort, hard disk, ethernet is a nice bottom to midrange, very usable system. and _relativly_ cheap too. in yet to have the equivilent in an A500 would be damn near impossible :-D these days, and that'd just be a starting config for an A3/4k...
i did see a blizzard030/IV hit ebay with a start price of 100UKP! and a blizzard060 made what was it 150UKP? i paid £190 for my PPC card(with scsi)!
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Ami_GFX wrote:
Very happy. The GVP HC+8 is a vast improvement over the A2091 that came with my A2500. Much faster, no more waiting 30 seconds to boot if the CD drive is empty and it works reliably with zip drives which means I can transfer files between my A2500, my A4000 and, through Winuae, my PC. Sometimes the small upgrades are the best and least expensive. I'm probably happier with this than whoever spent $910 on a Toastscan. Thanks Dave. :-) :-) :-)
Glad it is working well for you and you are happy with the purchase. That HC+8 card was one of the items I sold that I had never tested or used, as it came in an A2000 that I removed everything from and loaded up with other cards.
Now I am thinking of further reducing my collection and may soon start selling the GOOD STUFF! It will not be sold cheap though and I may try to auction it at AmiBay, eBay, or other auction sites. That will give everyone a chance to get it.