Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Gwion on April 25, 2008, 09:39:06 PM
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My Amiga 2000 will only display grays. I am using a A520 modulator and connected to a TV using A/V.
Any ideas why its doing this?
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maybe its set wrong as NTSC/PAL..
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How do i change it to PAL?
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Have you tried using the phono out connectors on the 520 to see if you get colour from them?
The other thing is - If I remember right - there's a little switch on the side of the 520. Sometimes this needs switching over to work with some TVs :idea:
Dave G 8-)
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The little switch didnt do anything.
Is the a Jumper on the motherboard?
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There is on the 4000D.
Not sure about 2000. I'll have a quick gleg in my manual.
Dave G 8-)
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Are you sure it's a PAL A520? They're not switchable, single standard only.
Try to get an RGB display anyway, composite quality sucks.
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I can't see anything in my 2000 manual about NTSC/PAL jumpers. On the 4000D it's clearly labelled as such :rtfm:
Dave G 8-)
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Its a PAL Amiga 2000 and a PAL A520 (works with ma A600)
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I know it's a pain in ass but have you tried phono leads?
Or tweaking the tuning on the TV slightly?
Dave G 8-)
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Phono? Im not using RF im using the A/V connections on the A520
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Ooops!!
Terminology and late nights don't mix :crazy:
Dave G 8-)
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This could be your answer :idea:
The Hardware database has this about the 2000 jumpers :rtfm:
Jumpers
These setting come out of the manual for an Amiga 2000 Revision 4.x and is compliant with Rev 6.x Amiga 2000 boards as well.
J101 This jumper determines the high order address bit for Fat Agnus. In it's normal position, the high-order bit is A23; in it's other position, this bit is A19. The current Fat Agnus chip requires the A23 signal for proper management of the memory at $C00000. Future Fat Agnus chips may do things differently; this keeps the current board compatible with simple enhancements.
J102 This jumper if available configures the A2000 for NTSC, or PAL operation. Agnus 8370, 8372A, 8372AB for example, support switching between NTSC and PAL. Rev 6.4 motherboards and possibly later revisions come with an 8375 Agnus by default which does not support switching. It was made in in separate versions for PAL and NTSC
J200 This jumper determines the time base used for the 50/60Hz CIA timer chip. In the normal posistion, the 50/60 TICK clock, based on AC line frequency, is used as a time base. In the alternate position, the verticle sync pulse from the video section is used. The system will not operate properly without one of these clocks.
J301 This jumper is closed to add a second internal floppy drive, open to leave the second floppy out of the main unit box. The Amiga expects an ID bit stream from each floppy drive; this lets it determine the drive type. External floppies have this ID circuitry on board, but as it's not an industry standard capability, it has to be implemented on the A2000 motherboard to save cost on internal drives. Leaving the jumper open prevents the Amiga from seeing the ID sequence.
J500 This jumper is used to enable the 512k of RAM at $C00000 and the real-time clock. It is normally closed; opening it will disable both this extra RAM and the real-time clock.
Dave G 8-)
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Still no difference :s
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@Gwion:
1- Are you 100% sure you're using a PAL Amiga and A520?
2- The Amiga is set to PAL? What A2000 version you have?
3- For 100% sure: the A/V is routed from the side RCA connector (Video out)?
4- Are using the "tick" signal (J012 set to "external") in a 50Hz voltage system (outlet frequency)? 50Hz Amigas will experience not-so-funny behaviour other way.
5- Did you try a game or in Workbench? Workbench screenmode is set to more than 2 colours?
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1- Yes its a PAL A520
2- It says 6.2 but looks like a 6.4
3- Yes thats the connector im Using
4- Dont know i'll check
5- Game is exactly the same
rkauer wrote:
@Gwion:
1- Are you 100% sure you're using a PAL Amiga and A520?
2- The Amiga is set to PAL? What A2000 version you have?
3- For 100% sure: the A/V is routed from the side RCA connector (Video out)?
4- Are using the "tick" signal (J012 set to "external") in a 50Hz voltage system (outlet frequency)? 50Hz Amigas will experience not-so-funny behaviour other way.
5- Did you try a game or in Workbench? Workbench screenmode is set to more than 2 colours?
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I cant find J012.
Where is it?
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J102 is right next to Agnus and the crystal.
_TICK doesn't matter here at all, it's there to provide a stable time base for the CIA counters in case you switch vertical frequency (which is used in A1000 & A500).
Why don't you use the composite out from the motherboard?
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The composite out on the motherboard is in grays i want colour.
The J102 is there it just doesn't have the pins.
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Open J102 is PAL, so either just leave it open or cut the trace.
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why don't you buy a RGB scart ?
do you want to record something ?
How is the F5 fuse ?
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F5 fuse?
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:bump:
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Hi
CM on AMiga-Hardware (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/download_photos/a2000mb_rev64_3.jpg)
the green resistor like between the 2 connectors on top right
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I doubt it he would have any output on modulator if the fuse was blown, I didn't (IIRC it was the +12V fuse)
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what does the +12V power? GFX?
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I have the same problem :(
Just bought an Amiga 500 with A520 which works fine, colored output.
But when I connect it to my Amiga 2000 rev6, it gives me grayscale output :(
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I have the same problem :(
Just bought an Amiga 500 with A520 which works fine, colored output.
But when I connect it to my Amiga 2000 rev6, it gives me grayscale output :(
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Either your A520 is PAL and your using ntsc or vice versa. A2000s DO NOT change pal/ntsc with just jumper its the a4k that has that feature. Your problem is def PAL/NTSC
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I have the same problem :(
Just bought an Amiga 500 with A520 which works fine, colored output.
But when I connect it to my Amiga 2000 rev6, it gives me grayscale output :(
Wrong agnus version...
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+1 for PAL/NTSC issue.
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if you have an ntsc a2000 get an ntsc a520 dont hack the motherboard..
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I believe they're both pal. My A2000 is pal.
How can I check Amiga 500 pal/ntsc version?
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I believe they're both pal. My A2000 is pal.
How can I check Amiga 500 pal/ntsc version?
What does Sysinfo say?
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SysInfo reports it's PAL ECS, so what's the problem?
EDIT: Anyone heard about it?
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=37217
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SysInfo reports it's PAL ECS, so what's the problem?
EDIT: Anyone heard about it?
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=37217
Well the fuse fixed his problem. Did you get a chance to check the 12v line on your A2000 yet?
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What fuse? and which 12v line?
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What fuse? and which 12v line?
Read post #20 in above linked thread...
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Read post #20 in above linked thread...
"You know the A520 is good cause you have tested it.
To gain confidence regarding the A2000, simply but carefully measure the voltage while the A2000 is running on both sides of F5, should be +12V on the PSU side & 0V on Pin 22 side."
So I should connect positive connector of multimeter to the fuse and negative connector to the RGB's Pin 22, right?
Or positive connector to PSU 12V and negative connector to the fuse/Pin 22?
The fuse was fine since I remember :confused:
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"You know the A520 is good cause you have tested it.
To gain confidence regarding the A2000, simply but carefully measure the voltage while the A2000 is running on both sides of F5, should be +12V on the PSU side & 0V on Pin 22 side."
So I should connect positive connector of multimeter to the fuse and negative connector to the RGB's Pin 22, right?
Or positive connector to PSU 12V and negative connector to the fuse/Pin 22?
The fuse was fine since I remember :confused:
Easy way. Set meter for 12VDC and measure across the fuse, A fuse should be a short, 0 Volts. If open "blown" you will see 12VDC.
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Easy way. Set meter for 12VDC and measure across the fuse, A fuse should be a short, 0 Volts. If open "blown" you will see 12VDC.
Thanks, I'll check it but since I remember the fuse was fine, not blown when I did a simple continuity test while it was off.
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@Rip,
Continuity check is not reliable in circuit, your meter could just be charging a cap. Must be removed, at least 1 end from the circuit for continuity to be reliable.
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Well, I measured the voltage of F5 fuse and it was 0V, so what's next?
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Well, I measured the voltage of F5 fuse and it was 0V, so what's next?
0V across the fuse? Do you have the 12V from a ground reference?
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0V across the fuse? Do you have the 12V from a ground reference?
Yes, and how to check 12V from a ground reference? :confused:
I really wanna get color output from my Amiga 2000 with A520 :(
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Put the black probe on part of the Amiga you know is at ground, 0V. Then put the red probe to the fuse. While the equipment is turned on, which is why some probes have clips, so you can turn on from a distance.
If no voltage is detected, that means the fuse is blown. Or part of the circuit behind the fuse has blown - unlikely, nearly always the fuse is sacrificed first. If you measure the resistance across a fuse, disconnected (unsoldered in this case) then a good fuse has 0 Ohm resitance, or close to. A blown fuse has near infinite resistance.
I must admit, I had no luck ever getting an A2000 to work with an A520 in the UK. I suspect there is a subtle difference between A2000 and A500 video outputs on PAL Amigas. Then again, I had no schematics to fault find with. I was very much working in the dark.
I'll dig out the Hardware Reference Manual and see if that has any light on the issue.
EDIT: Only difference is that A500s don't have a -12V rail, they have a -5V rail on video pin 21. So yes, does look like the +12V supply isn't getting to the modulator (I presume is is needed, as other people have reported changing that fuse has let them use PAL A2000s with PAL A520s).
The reason the fuse is there is to protect the power supply from blowing up when the +12 rail gets shorted out. Very easy to do when fumbling with a big D connector round the back of an Amiga. Replacing it is no big deal if you have the skills, if not, see if you have a local Makerspace or Hackspace to help out.
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The fuse for that device is good. the 12V is being interrupted else where.
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The fuse for that device is good. the 12V is being interrupted else where.
No. If it's showing 0V (is measuring voltage) that means that no volts are getting through the fuse.
If a fuse is showing 0 Ohms (is measuring resistance) that means the fuse is good, in that it has no resistance, and should pass current when connected into a circuit.
It is very easy to have a meter set to measure the wrong thing that you are looking for.
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No. If it's showing 0V (is measuring voltage) that means that no volts are getting through the fuse.
If a fuse is showing 0 Ohms (is measuring resistance) that means the fuse is good, in that it has no resistance, and should pass current when connected into a circuit.
It is very easy to have a meter set to measure the wrong thing that you are looking for.
He was measuring across the fuse. If it's good he will get 0V, assuming there is 12V getting to the fuse. That's why I suggested measuring the voltage at the fuse from a ground point. A quick check for voltage on both sides of the fuse will tell him if the 12V is present and if the fuse is good.
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He was measuring across the fuse. If it's good he will get 0V, assuming there is 12V getting to the fuse. That's why I suggested measuring the voltage at the fuse from a ground point. A quick check for voltage on both sides of the fuse will tell him if the 12V is present and if the fuse is good.
Exactly. A fuse should be a short, if open 12v, if closed 0v.
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EDIT: I think I figured this out actually... would it make sense that the NTSC models have 3 and 4 as the switch positions (to equate to channel 3 and 4 in the US) and the PAL models have the L and H instead?
Dumb question... is there a way to tell if an A520 is PAL or NTSC other than hooking it up and seeing what you get? Come to think of it, how do you tell which default an Amiga is?
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EDIT: I think I figured this out actually... would it make sense that the NTSC models have 3 and 4 as the switch positions (to equate to channel 3 and 4 in the US) and the PAL models have the L and H instead?
Dumb question... is there a way to tell if an A520 is PAL or NTSC other than hooking it up and seeing what you get? Come to think of it, how do you tell which default an Amiga is?
The two variants are almost identical, externally and internally.
Here's an NTSC one (pretty sure it's NTSC, from Brazil). Notice lack of any German markings on the back (Germany was CBMs first choice for making PAL Amigas).
http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-818535956-amiga-a500-a520-modulador-rgb-to-rf-ou-video-para-amiga-500-_JM
This one is more likely PAL;-
http://scacom.bplaced.net/Collection/520/520.php
So it's not easy to tell which is which without plugging it in.
As for the mode an Amiga is currently running in, you look at the screen. PAL Amigas have more horizontal lines - NTSC have fewer. So if the image looks "stretched" or "compressed", it's running in the wrong mode for that application.
Generally speaking, a lot of Amiga games prefer NTSC because they can run a little faster (on a real Amiga), wheraas a PAL desktop gives you a bigger canvas to work on. Not always true, some games insist on PAL, and some applications insist on NTSC.
If you can get a page of text displayed, an NTSC system will have 200 or 400 / 8 = 26 or 52 lines of text, A PAL system can display 256 / 512 lines of text = 32 or 64 lines of text. Assuming no overscan, just a straight window with a border on your display. The larger sizes are interlaced, and will tend to shimmer like crazy on most displays (without a flicker fixer fitted).
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Yes, notice the second one has no FCC ID#, not a US product at all.
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Yes, notice the second one has no FCC ID#, not a US product at all.
Must admit, having seen plenty of Amiga kit with FCC numbers, I never noticed the lack of an FCC on on PAL A520s. Mind you, I almost never examined a real one... I guess I was spoilt for choice of genlocks and monitors at the time.
Well spotted. :)
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The fuse for that device is good. the 12V is being interrupted else where.
Possible to measure 12/5V on the video port?
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Possible to measure 12/5V on the video port?
You probably could but, the pins are close together and you don't want to short them together since you have to test it "live". If you don't have it there you will still need to backtrack. Check between the fuse and ground first, at least you'll know if it's hot. Ground is always a big trace running around the perimeter with some traces going into the other devices. You can use battery ground.
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I measured 12V from pins 21&22 and it was ~16V
Then I measured 5V from pins 21&23 and it was 0V :confused:
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If the MB is not getting 5V it won't run. Start from the power supply and move thru it's path down the circuit. probably a broken solder/trace or wire somewhere.
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If the MB is not getting 5V it won't run. Start from the power supply and move thru it's path down the circuit. probably a broken solder/trace or wire somewhere.
How? :confused:
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Interrupted between here and there, follow the path. Likely a cable or a solder gone flaky.
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No schematic? I can only see +5V_USER (C215), not more things =/
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No schematic? I can only see +5V_USER (C215), not more things =/
http://bfy.tw/DjEW
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http://bfy.tw/DjEW
Only found this: http://i.imgur.com/807NXSH.jpg
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The link Mike posted works here, Check again.
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Bottom Right of the schematic you linked, "User 5V" start there and trace back or forward to find the fault.
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Bottom Right of the schematic you linked, "User 5V" start there and trace back or forward to find the fault.
5V_User, pin12 of PSU?
Maybe Amiga 2000 doesn't have 5V line in video port:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=198523&postcount=8
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Just noticed the trace between EMI211 and pin23 was blown :hammer:
Finally got colored video out, can't believe :laughing:
(https://thumbs.imgbox.com/32/42/WJVHn37N_t.jpg) (http://imgbox.com/WJVHn37N)
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Persistence pays off and patience is a virtue.
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Nice work!