Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: DoogUK on April 12, 2008, 09:21:33 PM
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I've copied and pasted this from my eab thread.
I'm not a happy chappy, at 6am this morning we awoke to water pouring from our bedroom ceiling....a pipe had burst in the loft....and yes you guessed it.....all my amiga stuff is up there sat on the boards that the tank is on.
I have spent the morning stripping sodden insulation out of the loft and taking stuff out, all my boxes storing the stuff soaked up the water like a sponge and everything is soaked.
My 2 1200's and a 600 were in one box and 2 a500's in their own box...still soaked as well as all my big box games.
I know Amigas can be pretty durable and after drying out may still work so here's hoping but i think i can safely write off my games collection.
Also the 500's original boxing will have to be thrown.
In a word....gutted.
hey ho...back to repairs.
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Ok crisis over, new bedroom ceiling in as it collapsed and all new insulation as it was sodden....got to get the plasterer in now grr.
Sorry to say the amigas had to take a back seat whilst this was going on but now are laid out drying in the front room much to the mrs's dismay lol.
Casulties are 2 boxed a500's, my 2 1200's including my prized 1240 accelerator , several boxes of disks,1 cardboard box with big box games in, acorn archemedes a3000 not to fussed as it didnt work correctly.
My A600 didnt get wet as i first thought so lucky there....just glad i kept my 2000 out as my main use amiga.
Will have to wait til they have dried out now to see whats working and whats not.
Thanks for the kind messages.
edit: another casualty is my supradrive 500xp external drive for the a500....gutted
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Let everything dry out, disks and all... I expect most will be fine... but only if you give them plenty of time to dry before use...
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My idea. If possible, place the gear in plastic boxes and use 'moisture-eater' to get them dry. You could also decide to force air-flow around the machines (place them in front of a running fan).
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Ok.....one 1200 works the other doesnt....and neither does my accelerator.
My a1200 with 3.0 roms is fine and reads disks so not a total loss.
The other 1200 with 3.1 roms has no life at all, black screen no led's.
I plug my accelerator into the 1200 with 3.0 roms and it just continualy cycles a black to grey to black screen.
Any ideas are gratefuly recieved.
both units and the accelerator are 100% dry.
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DoogUK wrote:
Ok.....one 1200 works the other doesnt....and neither does my accelerator.
My a1200 with 3.0 roms is fine and reads disks so not a total loss.
The other 1200 with 3.1 roms has no life at all, black screen no led's.
I plug my accelerator into the 1200 with 3.0 roms and it just continualy cycles a black to grey to black screen.
Any ideas are gratefuly recieved.
both units and the accelerator are 100% dry.
DUDE!!!!! It's only been a few hours since the water leak! I really meant that you should let the equipment dry out, I wasn't expecting you to try any of it for a week at least!!!
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how long ago did this happen? How long did you let them dry out?
Rich
ny
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Yesterday morning, they have been on the radiator for over 24 hours and are dry as a bone.
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|IT should be ok, never worry if anything electrical gets wet, aslong as it isnt switched on at the time at contact with water or isnt switched on when still wet then it should be ok. Like the others said, let it dry completely, open up all the casing and take all the motherboards and other hardwares out and leave them out for a good few days.
[EDIT]
Didn't read all of the posts. I shouldn't worry too much, do you think you could take some scans of your broken 040?
To be honest you really should have laft them to dry for alot longer as theres loads of gaps water can get into that are not visable. Leaving them on the radiator is a BIG NONO. Near one maybe, that could have been crucial.
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DoogUK wrote:
Yesterday morning, they have been on the radiator for over 24 hours and are dry as a bone.
No they are not! You might have fried the equipment...
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Try cleaning the a1200 edge connector with a pencil eraser. Chances are the water may have caused mild oxidation on the goldfingers, or left a residue causing bad connectivity.
If you have anything suitable to clean the female connector on the accelerator you could try that too.
I'd recommend removing any ram from the accelerator whilst testing - it's just one more thing which could be wrong at the moment, and doesn't help you pinpoint the fault.
The fact that it is cycling through grey-black screens could be a good sign, rather than just being completely dead.
Is there any activity on the keyboard - try pressing the capslock key multiple times - does it "lock" on after around 8 presses?
Check the battery on the accelerator - any signs of leakage?
Don't get the soldering iron out just yet!
Hope it all works out
Rich
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I'd give them at least a week. Water can seep into places you wouldn't imagine. 24 hours is definitely not enough time.
Also, cardboard boxes are terrible as storage devices. Not only can water get through them, so can moths and any other kind of bug which can cause unseen damage to your Amigas and accessories.
(http://www.theplasticman.com.au/admin/images/actionpkcrate71.jpg)
This is the sort of thing you want. Air tight. Throw some silica moisture absorbing packets in there and you're all set.
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DoogUK wrote:
Ok.....one 1200 works the other doesnt....and neither does my accelerator.
My a1200 with 3.0 roms is fine and reads disks so not a total loss.
The other 1200 with 3.1 roms has no life at all, black screen no led's.
I plug my accelerator into the 1200 with 3.0 roms and it just continualy cycles a black to grey to black screen.
Any ideas are gratefuly recieved.
both units and the accelerator are 100% dry.
A trick we used to do back in the day of 'Points distrubitor' cars when the distrubitor got wet and
wouldn't start.
Wash out distrubitor with 'Carbon tetracloride'.
It displaces and ubsorbs water.
If this were my disaster (your Amigas) I would dis-assemble
and wash down all hardware parts with Carbon tet.
Hope this will help ... (sorry for your problem)
Mel
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Er, carbon tetrachloride is carcinogenic, I don't think he would want to use that...
WD-40, Pocket Rocket. or another water displacing aerosol is a good thing to try, as it will penetrate under surface mounted chips, which is where water could still be trapped by capillary action.
WTF
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I used wd40 :-)
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Hi,
look at the solutions on this thread :
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=35704
You can put 2/5s empty box in Oven ;-)
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WD-40 is a water displacer by name and function, but it leaves a greasy film which attracts other contaminates, and I believe it also conducts. My understanding is that you should never use WD-40 on electronic equipment, with the exception of moving parts like drive mechanisms, and even then you should use a lithium grease. This was well-known back the in BBS days, and I assume that similar mentions are on the Internet or in news groups.
I am in the process of transferring all of my electronics into plastic storage crates for several reasons. The primary being ease of transport, either moving or shuffling around in the storage area, and the secondary being that I found my storage boxes causing accelerated yellowing. The storage crates I have chosen are not air-tight, but have a good history of keeping out the creepy-crawlies.
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Have you got contents insurance? If so, try that route if the hardware still fails to work.
Comiserations. Even though my A1200T is in tge roof at the moment (through lack of space), I would be gutted if it got damaged like that.
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DoogUK wrote:
Yesterday morning, they have been on the radiator for over 24 hours and are dry as a bone.
yeah why dont you just {bleep}ing throw all your amigas on a burning hot fire while your at it?! seriosuly i sympathise with you a lot ovber you r accident, but you really cant {bleep} around when it comes to electronics. you should have let it dried in a cool/warm place for at least a week before you try anything!!!!!
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I'm not adding anything useful here, but I just gotta chime in and agree with all the others here. 24 hours is not enough time to get computers dry. A week, as the others have said, is what you should have waited. Sounds like you might have damaged the Amiga that you turned on after 24 hours, as there was probably moisture still underneath the components, and in all the nooks and crannies of the circuit board (not just the visible places).
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What conclusion are we trying to draw here-- that even if you bathe the Amiga, it will still work as long as you dry it out for a week+ ?
I had a floppy drive that was really dirty and most disks failed on it. I bathed it in water and tried after letting it dry for a month and it still does not work. It was better when it was dirty. Now it reads ZERO disks. Seems like I killed something just by the bathing process.
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amigaksi wrote:
What conclusion are we trying to draw here-- that even if you bathe the Amiga, it will still work as long as you dry it out for a week+ ?
I had a floppy drive that was really dirty and most disks failed on it. I bathed it in water and tried after letting it dry for a month and it still does not work. It was better when it was dirty. Now it reads ZERO disks. Seems like I killed something just by the bathing process.
Huh? :-?
The conclusion is, if your Amigas get soaked in water it's probably better to dry them out over the course of a week, than only for 24 hours. There's no guarantee that they will work after that week, but you increase the odds of them working.
I'm not sure why you'd be surprised at your floppy drive not working after soaking it in water, but I'm guessing you're trying to make an analogy. No one is saying that a water soaked Amiga will work after a week of drying. They're saying 24 hours is not enough time, and one may increase the survival chances of said Amigas if they wait longer for them to dry.
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LoadWB wrote:
WD-40 is a water displacer by name and function, but it leaves a greasy film which attracts other contaminates, and I believe it also conducts. My understanding is that you should never use WD-40 on electronic equipment, with the exception of moving parts like drive mechanisms, and even then you should use a lithium grease. This was well-known back the in BBS days, and I assume that similar mentions are on the Internet or in news groups.
I agree. I'd blast them off with some contact cleaner (possibly removing Agnus - I could see water getting trapped underneath), maybe a little compressed air and let dry. Iso in lieu of contact cleaner. There is no way I'd hit a motherboard with WD-40.
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>Huh?
I was looking for a more technical answer that's why I gave the example of the floppy drive. If we know the exact thing that's happening when water is poured on electronic equipment, we can find the best solution.
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Guys,
I never said that WD-40 was a perfect answer, it was just to displace the water and prevent legs of chips etc. from rusting until such time that he could get around to drying it properly.
He could clean the board with methylated spirits afterwards and still be able to dry the board effectively.
WTF
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An update......both a500's are ok...both working fine.
Gotta love these undestructable units.
Maybe its because they had 2 n half days drying under heat.
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amigaksi wrote:
>Huh?
I was looking for a more technical answer that's why I gave the example of the floppy drive. If we know the exact thing that's happening when water is poured on electronic equipment, we can find the best solution.
Oxidation and deposition
If oxidation of tracks occurs this can reduce the cross-sectional area of the track, thus increasing overall resistance in the track, thus increasing heat dissipation per unit track lingth and increasing the chances of a burnout at some critical higher-resistance point (a narrowing, a track corner, etc) or where the track is transferring a higher current.
Where there is deposition (as I believe someone else has already pointed out) this may cause shorting, or increased interference where complete shorting does not occur.
Both oxidation and deposition may also prevent conduction at any point where contact is required, eg edge connectors, chip sockets, etc.
At least, that's my interpretation of possible water damage modes.
Regards
Rich
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Told you so....A500s have legendary durability.
:)
WTF
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amigaksi wrote:
What conclusion are we trying to draw here-- that even if you bathe the Amiga, it will still work as long as you dry it out for a week+ ?
I had a floppy drive that was really dirty and most disks failed on it. I bathed it in water and tried after letting it dry for a month and it still does not work. It was better when it was dirty. Now it reads ZERO disks. Seems like I killed something just by the bathing process.
I think it's pretty well known that you can use water to clean enclosed, non-moving components like a circuit board. The motherboard and components (mostly plastic) are all fairly inert things. A bit of washing & drying won't hurt them (as long as they are not powered up at the time). Some people have even put computer motherboards in the dish-washer (i.e. Amiga boards) and then allowed them to dry entirely, without problems.
However, you put a disk drive with moving, non-sealed components (i.e. the motors) in water. In a disk drive there are coil-wraps in the motors, other parts that can corrode, water absorbent materials (like the piece of felt opposite one of the drive heads & even cardboard components). There are also lubricated/greased parts that can be harmed by water (the lubrication can be washed away). Placing a disk-drive in water was a probably a mistake.
I also suspect that your problem was greater than dust contamination. Probably head-misalignment.
Water cleaning is only intended for non-moving, inert, sealed components like motherboards, ICs, resistors, etc.
You could have removed just the circuit board from the disk drive and washed that, though, without worry. In fact, I suspect the circuit board from your disk drive works just fine. It's just the mechanics that are faulty.
Now, in the case of a flood, where you have no choice, and even the moving parts are soaked, a weeks worth of drying is your only choice.
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So...how did you dry the bedroom carpet ?
(that'll get them going)
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LOL...thankfuly it was laminate
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Never use water, but use alcool instead !!!
Even if they are now safe, use alcool or a contact spray cleaner to protect them !!
Do it quickly !!!
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possibly if u got an accelerator in one of ur 1200 it had a battery backuped clock on it, which the other 1200 and both a500 had not. it could cause some shorts in the logic while flooded. maybe this is a simple secret to the legendary "water proof" durability of the a500?
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amigaksi wrote:
What conclusion are we trying to draw here-- that even if you bathe the Amiga, it will still work as long as you dry it out for a week+ ?
I had a floppy drive that was really dirty and most disks failed on it. I bathed it in water and tried after letting it dry for a month and it still does not work. It was better when it was dirty. Now it reads ZERO disks. Seems like I killed something just by the bathing process.
Surely you are joking or exaggerating! You didn't really try to clean a floppy drive in water, did you?
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Double post problem.
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>Surely you are joking or exaggerating! You didn't really try to clean a floppy drive in water, did you?
I wasn't joking; given the seriousness of some of the issues I deal with, I try to state that I'm joking if I'm joking in order not to deceive anyone.
Just could not reach the interior of the floppy to clean with a cotton swab so decided to give it a bath only to find it became worse. No one wanted it when I tried to give it away so I had to do something with it.
So the motor coil/parts would ruin with water-- what about the coil of wire around the power connector on the A500? Is that a different type of coil?
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DoogUK wrote:
Maybe its because they had 2 n half days drying under heat.
Time must work differently there.
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Geeze! :-o
I just went through the same thing. I definitely feel your pain.
I'm sure everybody else is offering you good advice. The only thing I'll add is:
- remove/toss any batteries.
- Carefully take apart your computers to let them dry
- WD-40 to help reduce the risk of rust.
- run a fan across the wet stuff to increase evaporation
- rice does wonders in soaking up water
Good luck with your endeavors. I hope you can save your machines. Original hardware is getting so rare these days that replacing them is getting expensive.
Dan
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quick update...the a1200 now works thankfuly but the accelerator is still dead.
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The supradrive lives!
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DoogUK wrote:
LOL...thankfuly it was laminate
In that case, I hope you used a fine haired mop.
I once had a spill on laminate and used a fine haired mop, left it a week to dry out and then it was fine to walk on.
( Good news about the miggys working again!!)
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the accelerator is still dead.
use a teebrush and electrical contact spray cleaner on the card and the connector !!! :-?
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ottomobiehl wrote:
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- rice does wonders in soaking up water
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Ahhhhh - no wonder that rice price is exploding worldwide, if food is abused this way...
;-)
(back on topic now)
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Im glad to hear everything appart from the accelerator is fine. Personally I would have chosen a lunchbox type container for the more expensive hardware. Bit late for 'could of's' now though.
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ral-clan wrote:
I think it's pretty well known that you can use water to clean enclosed, non-moving components like a circuit board. The motherboard and components (mostly plastic) are all fairly inert things. A bit of washing & drying won't hurt them (as long as they are not powered up at the time). Some people have even put computer motherboards in the dish-washer (i.e. Amiga boards) and then allowed them to dry entirely, without problems.
However, you put a disk drive with moving, non-sealed components (i.e. the motors) in water. In a disk drive there are coil-wraps in the motors, other parts that can corrode, water absorbent materials (like the piece of felt opposite one of the drive heads & even cardboard components). There are also lubricated/greased parts that can be harmed by water (the lubrication can be washed away). Placing a disk-drive in water was a probably a mistake.
I also suspect that your problem was greater than dust contamination. Probably head-misalignment.
Water cleaning is only intended for non-moving, inert, sealed components like motherboards, ICs, resistors, etc.
You could have removed just the circuit board from the disk drive and washed that, though, without worry. In fact, I suspect the circuit board from your disk drive works just fine. It's just the mechanics that are faulty.
Now, in the case of a flood, where you have no choice, and even the moving parts are soaked, a weeks worth of drying is your only choice.
VERY WELL stated. I regularly have washed motherboards and dried them out with 100% success. You just gotta make sure they're dry and you don't do it with mechanical parts like motors. Duh...
@original poster:
Feel your pain - my worse nightmare! Hope for the best recovery!