Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Daniele on April 02, 2008, 05:10:51 PM
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the Amiga is disappointing me day by day,
last week I fried an EZ-View scan doubler.
Today happened that was my Ide-Fix Express to be fried!!!
before I had a working IdeFix express set in this way:
on the little Port 0 I had a 2,5 HD,
on Port 1 I had the CD-Rom connected
Since I was installind OS 4 and the Amiga from Boot floppy asked for Amiga OS 4 Install CD and it wouldn't go on
after reading a bit the Amiga OS 4 manual that say that they assume user have an IDE CD-Rom drive connected to the internal IDE Port I decided to remove idefix express and try to connect the HD and the CD rom on a special cable sold me by Vesalia at the time but it didn't work.
So I was going to install ide-fix express again and after plugged the Express adapter on the Gayle chip I hooked this time CD-Rom to the big Port 0 since I have readed on the Amiga OS 4 manual that AOS 4 recognize the Ide-Fix 4-Way adapter only connected on the first port but happened that from the express adapter began to come out smoke and all the 4 way adapter begun to burn!!!!:madashell:
Now my Idefix Express is burned but I have another one to replace it because I had bought two items but I don't know what to do to not make this hell happen again!
:-?
and I stil do not know how to install OS 4 with IdeFix express!
http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=immagine003co6.jpg
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I don't know about OS4 install, but looking at idefix's photo seems like it was making a contact on your cable on +5v and Ground pin. Must be your 2.5" cable the problem for the "fire".
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Sorry but your motherboad is now half dead.
You need one new to get IDE interface working.
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maybe you are right because if I connect the idefix express the amiga do not boot!
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If you just connect a 2.5" hd and cable is it booting?
EDIT
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But probably CLS2086 is right :-(
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If all else fails, look for a burnt trace on the underside of the motherboard. It can be repaired by soldering in a small wire, and chances are IDE should work again. (Don't ask me how I know...)
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how long did you wait to turn the power off ?
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I don't know why if I connect a 2,5 HD it boots and why the Amiga do not power on if I hook ide-fix express!!!! :-?
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I'm assuming you're connecting the good ide-fix and not the burnt one ?
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yes I am connecting a brand new ide-fix I don't know why I have bought 2 but I hope to not burn this one too!
Actually I am wondering why I burned the 1st one!
With only the HD it boots with idefix express NO!!!
:(
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oh, by the way, NEVER use that 2.5 cable in the picture again ! It's burnt as well, and will cause a short.
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Maybe problem with your second cable? This one that conects idefix and mainboard?
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2 different peripherals burning out so close to each other...i would begin to suspect the power supply is going and putting out incorrect voltages.
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As mentioned, definitely check the PSU, also you may have to re-seat the socket that clips over Gayle a time or two before it works correctly.
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Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but from your description in this post and the last post (where you fried your scan-doubler) it sounds as if you are connecting and removing hardware while the Amiga is still powered on. If so then you are really asking for it...
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I have changed PSU too and the miggy do not wanna boot with the IdeFix hooked.If I boot only with a 2,5 HD it boot. And of course I did these things powring off the Amiga.I don't wanna burn the 2nd Idefix I own and eventually another mobo! because it happened that a flame form the cable from the gayle chip reached the idefix and burnt it!
what can I do to not make any other damage?
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@Daniele
Check if your Amiga and any devices connected to it, (Monitor, modem, etc) have a proper ground wire.
If you're getting a small electric shock when you touch the metal case of your Amiga, you have a ground problem.
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Another good tip is turn it off before you plug/unplug anything from it. :-)
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It looks to me like you were using non-keyed cables (always a hazard with 2.5" cables which have power). It looks like you had the cable staggered by 1-pin (or worse flipped) and wired power to ground.
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l have never had one burn like this u must shorted something
remember the ide 2 1/2 are powered via the cable u must have the cable with red stripe to pin one.
in saying that l have done same thing, l cant work out why u got short unless the board touched the 1200 mb
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I had a similar problem once, but without an IDE-Fix (or similar) board attached. What happened was, I had a homemade VGA monitor adaptor and a monitor that had trouble syncing occasionally. I managed to short something in the VGA adaptor (by being stupid), and bang, my A1200 went dead. The Short 2.5" ribbon cable to the hard drive looked exactly like the one in your photo. I had someone else look at it, and he got it working again, but for some reason an accelerator couldn't be connected anymore (more damage somewhere). Fortunately he had a replacement that worked with my accelerator.
What's strange is that a fault in a non-related part of the machine caused the cable to burnout like that. I never really investigated further as I was just happy to get it working again.
Hans
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the defect looks very familiar - since you provided more pictures to me in private eMail, I also know which trace exactly is burned on the bottom side of the IDE-fix board. It clearly indicates that the harddrive (or cable=>short) has pulled way too much power. I am assuming that you have made a wrong connection (as someone else in this thread noted: staggered connection), and made a short.
The picture of your burnt scandoubler also points at a defective or overloaded power supply. A dead MACH chip normally doesn't crack it's package like yours - there's some serious noise required on the +5V line to cause a latchup (which requires burning the latchup-protection of the chips!). You should check proper grounding of your in-house wiring, as this can cause bad noise on just about everything.
Jens Schönfeld
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@Schoenfeld
I forgot to tell you that I saw smoke on the express adapter of the ide-fix as something burning was coming from the gayle chip adaptor to the express adapter and from that went to burn the ide-fix board.
Now I am very scared to use the gayle chip adaptor because I have the fear that this was the cause of my problem.
Now I have changed PSU.
The strange thing is that the Amiga do not boot anymore with ide-fix express while it boots without idefix express with HD only.
Let me know please
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Schoenfeld wrote:
there's some serious noise required on the +5V line to cause a latchup (which requires burning the latchup-protection of the chips!). You should check proper grounding of your in-house wiring, as this can cause bad noise on just about everything.
Yes! I have seen houses, especially older houses, with NO ground at all! Check it or have it checked!
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Hans_ wrote:
What's strange is that a fault in a non-related part of the machine caused the cable to burnout like that. I never really investigated further as I was just happy to get it working again.
Hans
I have a theory. When you short circuit something, 5v and GND lines all through the system heat up. And the 5v and gnd lines on the cable are just next to each other. Eventually they melt the plastic and touch each other, forming another short circuit.
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btw, a little tip for everyone ... when you're powering up your amiga, don't let your hand move away from the PSU quickly. In the case of a short circuit, the PSU starts to shake because of immense power output. If you keep your hand over it, you can actually feel it and turn it off quickly. If you can act quick enough, you may actually save your system (if you're lucky).
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Daniele -- looking at the picture of your IDE cable, I did the exact same retarded thing as you. (It's OK, we all have these moments sometime in life. In my case, I had a big fat Spaten Optimator and decided it would be "fun" to re-arrange the inside of my miggy a bit nicer. Bad idea!)
Fortunately, I flipped mine off quick enough and avoided damage to the IDE-Fix Express board (still operates 100% reliable, 5.0 mb/sec raw read with an overclocked Apollo 1260!).
Afterward, I had similar strange symptoms (IDE not working with Express adapter connected).
After repairing the broken trace underneath (around the IDE port area IIRC) it's worked flawless ever since.
Hope you get it working!
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Hi there,
hot chip means that it is burning.
The psu is to blame.Or maybe a bridge along the voltages lines.replace your psu.it's time to make that ATX PSU mod.
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I agree about the staggered pins. We fried a HDD or RAM (Can't remember which) in a PC once by accidentally having a floppy drive connector staggered one pin to the side. Strange how it took stuff out that was seemingly unrelated.
(As far as PC floppy drives are concerned, they don't seem mind a reversed floppy connector - I have two Sony FDD's in my XP tower as A: and B: that can only be used with a un-keyed floppy ribbon 'cause the crazy floppy drives have the keys in the wrong place for normal cables - With a normal cable the LED's on the front of the drives just stay on all the time...)
Hans_: Here's an idea re the VGA short...The HDD cases are usually grounded, in your case via the ribbon cable. On the A1200's the shield is grounded, but it’s grounded via a few low-ohm resistors if I remember rightly. That makes your HDD the lowest resistance path to ground in your miggy for any voltages placed on the shield, so if a power rail (The 23pin D video port contains power rails...) somehow touched the edge of one of the D connectors or some of the screen at the back of your A1200,
(And the case of your floppy drive wasn't grounded) then that would probably explain why the cable fried itself. :crazy:
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Just experienced the same problem last night! :-(
I heard a subtle *chaff* sound and my Amiga 1200 reset by itself. Unlike Daniele's case, i don't see anything burned. But exactly as Daniele said, my Amiga doesn't boot anymore with the IDE-Fix adapter plugged in. With or without the Express.
The warranty is still valid. I contacted AmigaKit about it and he told me to send him Both circuits for inspection, which i will asap.
If i remove the adapter and connect the IDE cable directly to the port of the motherboard, my Amiga boots as normal! It was logical to assume that the IDE-Fix adapter went bad, but from the Daniele's report i see that it could be the Gayle chip?!!
How can i see if the Gayle chip is ok or not? What are the symptoms of a defective Gayle chip? As i said there is no visible sign of damage. Please let me know! :-(
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gayle is responsible for IDE operation. if it was burned, you wouldn't be able to boot from IDE at all.
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@counterzero
Thank you. So, my initial assumption that the ide-fix adapter alone went bad, is correct.
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@AmigaMance
I had to buy another full idefix express with adapter and another mobo from AmigaKit but since April I did not have the time yet to assemble the A1200 again and to be honest I have fear to do it!!!!!!!!!
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@Daniele
Hi!
You had to buy another mobo, eh? Does this mean that something in your old mobo was damaged as well, or you bought it just in case there is a damage?
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@AmigaMance
You had to buy another mobo, eh? Does this mean that something in your old mobo was damaged as well, or you bought it just in case there is a damage?
The same day I burned my ide-fix express (and I burned it because instead to put the adaptor on the Gayle chip I put it on the Alice chip for error) I realized that my Amiga didn't wanna boot the HD with the idefix express.
Since I had in my house another ide-fix express bought in the case I would damage the first one I realized that my mobo did not wanna boot with this new ide-fix express too.
So I ordered another mobo from AmigaKit on April but I did not try it yet.
Daniele
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I see.. Yeah, i also noticed that the express adapter fits in both the Gayle and Alice chip. I almost did the same mistake myself when i first installed it but i didn't. Thanks for answering.
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Funny enough i have had the same problem,but in my case the first Express fried my Gayle chip. And i was supercareful with all the cabling when i sent it back to amigakit they said it was faulty..
I can't help but think there maybe a bad run some express adapters.
I wonder who else had a fried Express adapter?
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Isn't it easier to install OS4 (and OS3.9) using WINUAE?
I'd have thought that would get around all the CDROM mounting issues?
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I had a faulty 4-Device IDE Interface from Amigakit last year. It tried to spontaneously combust after initial fitting - luckily for me, I had the top case removed and could both smell and see the wisp of smoke coming from it.
Amikit were absolutely first class when dealing with the problem - new interface sent out within a matter of days after I'd sent the broken one back.