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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: pyrre on March 21, 2008, 11:15:03 PM
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I have a fusion forty that is malfunctioning. It boots up and shows the kickstart screen. sometimes it even loads WB...
However the times i have it to load WB and run sysinfo on it it is slower than a standard A500...
At first it runs "great" but it rapidly gets slower til it crashes...
Could this be a worn out crystal, or a damaged CPU/card?
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I would try cleaning any contacts, and checking the PSU.
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I would try cleaning any contacts, and checking the PSU.
MotherBoard of A2000 has just been cleaned up... Vas corroded from battery leakage. No contacts or circuits are broken, as I can see...
PSU is standard A2000 PSU. and it provides the correct voltage...
The fusion gets progressively slower after bootup.
But the psu shows the same volts. (minor changes)
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Ah, bummer.
I'm guessing you fooled with the card's boot options, and have latest ROMs? Will it goof off if you run the system straight from floppy (no HD attached)?
Hope you get it sorted.
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I'm guessing you fooled with the card's boot options, and have latest ROMs? Will it goof off if you run the system straight from floppy (no HD attached)?
The Fusion forty (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/fusion40) does not have HDD controller...
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pyrre wrote:
At first it runs "great" but it rapidly gets slower til it crashes...
This sounds like the 68040 is overheating. Check that the CPU heatsink is attached properly and that the fan works. Also check the onboard RAM. If you don't have enough of it, the CPU will start using Zorro-II RAM thus slowing down to an A500 speed.
I think the maximum you can have on the card is 32 Mb. Also check that you have the latest plug-n-go Roms (v3.4).
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Check that the CPU heatsink is attached properly and that the fan works.
Heatsink is is properly seated and the fan is working. No dust in the sink as well... Have wacumed it...
Also check the onboard RAM.
Four megs is installed. Have tried both upper and lower banks. Same result. Four megs should be sufficient to boot the system properly. Hower. the ram is not identified and mounted correct. They do not show up, no matter upper or lower bank...
I still have no answer to whether it is autoconfiguring.
Also check that you have the latest plug-n-go Roms (v3.4).
All four plug-n-go roms are 3.4
Swapping sockets; will that make any difference?
Or are all the same?
My best guess is that the crystal is dying....
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I'm not sure if this will help, but from what I've read, the Fusion Forty may have some compatibility problems with the Gary chip on older revision Amiga 2000 motherboards.
Quoted from a review of the Fusion Forty:
"I had to do the following before I could get the
Fusion Forty to work correctly.
1. Replace the CMOS Gary chip with a new Commodore-manufactured one."
In addition, the Ram does not autoconfigure.
Quote:
"Note that this RAM does not autoconfigure. According to RCS, they don't autoconfigure the RAM for two reasons: so that they can overcome the Amiga 2000's 8 meg
limit, and (they claim) autoconfiguring the RAM would make it slower."
I hope some of this is helpful.
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Thanx Miked, it may help. That means i am for the look for a newer Gary chip....
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:bump:
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I have one and it indeed does autoconfig the memory. I have 32mb on mine. Make sure you have the correct 68040.library for it. I would also clean all contacts and reseat the PNG Roms.
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I have one and it indeed does autoconfig the memory. I have 32mb on mine.
That is good to hear. Because i gen no ram added at all. there are four simms installed and the seller told me it is four or eight megs in total of four simms. Have tried them in upper and lower bank to no result.
Make sure you have the correct 68040.library for it.
If i would get as far as the WB screen it would be nice. Loading the WB gets increasingly slow. Till everything hangs. Cooling is great, fan is running and all the powers are as it should.
I would also clean all contacts and reseat the PNG Roms.
Have reseated all the chips on the card. one by one.....
My question is still: could it be a malfunctioning crystal oscillator?
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Crystals don't act this way. They simply work (or not).
My guess is you have a bad thermal contact between the CPU and the heatsink.
For the memory issue, try (in a CLI):
"addmem" (no quotes)
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I have never owned this board but from all the reading I have done about the Fusion Forty, it seems RCS had two board designs. And, it seems, the initial board design was the one that had a multitude of problems. Can anyone confirm this?
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I had a FF years and yeas ago. I remember it coming with software that had to be installed to activate the memory and get the accel. working right.
On the note of the system slowing down, that is a CLASSIC example of something overheating. If the fan is running and clean, I throw my hat in on the checking of the thermal paste.
Also, I noticed on the web page at the BBoAH it says that the 4 meg min. needs to be in the slots AWAY from the back plate.
And on that note, memory was diversified back then so make sure you have 8x30 SIMMs, NOT 9x30. If you are not sure, just count the # of mem. chips on each SIMM. 8=8 9=9
I have long since sold the FF but I remember who I sold it to so I'll e-mail him to see if he still has it and the disks...
Best of Luck!
J. Golden
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Heat is something i am concerned about too....
But the sink is glued to the 040 and i don't want to put any stress to it removing the sink.
I have downloaded the software disks from here (http://amiga.resource.cx/)
The simms have eight chips on them.
However, reading the size of them is a whole other story...
They are labeled: mcm84000as70 and the chips bear the Motorola mark...
EDIT:
After removing the sink and the thermal compound, i see that it is a XC68040RC25. The serial suggest that it is supposed to run @ 25Mhz... ant this card is clocked to run 40...
(according to the seller)
How can I slow it down?
Is that a matter of swapping the crystal?
(it is clocked to 56Mhz)
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pyrre wrote:
After removing the sink and the thermal compound, i see that it is a XC68040RC25. The serial suggest that it is supposed to run @ 25Mhz... ant this card is clocked to run 40...
(according to the seller)
How can I slow it down?
Is that a matter of swapping the crystal?
(it is clocked to 56Mhz)
If the crystal is 56mhz, the 68040 will divide this by 2 and run at 28mhz, so its probably not running too fast.
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I believe that is the stock clock rate 28Mhz. Yes that is correct, overclocked at the factory.
Enter the early RCS Boot menu by pressing the left mouse button on reboot and see if FastKick is enabled.
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And, if you want to be on the secure side of things, slow the board down by using a 50MHz crystal...
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Just checked mine and it has a 56MHz oscillator.
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I guess that from what you've said, your memory is not getting recognized. As such it is no wonder that the card is slow. When working with onboard 16-bit memory the 040 is almost as slow as a 68000.
I would guess that your simms are probably faulty or inappropriate for the board. My FF has 32 Mb on board and it is fully autoconfiguring, no need to add anything to the startup-sequence. The only thing it is picky about is its old v36 68040.library. But that's about it.
So you should try to source some compatible SIMMs...
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For fast mem to get autoconfigured you have to enable FastKick.
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quick question, how much do these run for nowdays? I got one that I may be selling (w/ no memory).
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quick question, how much do these run for nowdays? I got one that I may be selling (w/ no memory).
Without memory, not much... All my reading tells me it has to have at lest 4 megs to work properly. And simms for this card is HARD to come by nowdays.
Fully populated with 32 MB ram and the 40MHz version....
That is one i guess you can get a great deal for...
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There is no 40mhz version, the forty in fusion forty refers to the 68040, this card was made in 25, 28 and 33mhz versions but I doubt if there were any 25 mhz versions made, they jumped straight to 28mhz.
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I've seen them go for about $100. I got mine for $80 with no Ram. 4mb 30-pin simms are hard to find. But not impossible.
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There is no 40mhz version, the forty in fusion forty refers to the 68040, this card was made in 25, 28 and 33mhz versions but I doubt if there were any 25 mhz versions made, they jumped straight to 28mhz.
The BBOAH (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=213) states otherwise....
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Sorry, I was going on information provided by your first link to the amiga hardware database.
One of them is wrong.
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Hi,
now it's my turn !
I receive a card sold as "non working" FF40 rev 2.0 with no quartz and no CPU, but with PnG roms he told me.
So I received a 040RC/40 CPU and I picked up a 44.4 Mhz quartz for a VGA card... so I well fit, and should work.
I cleaned up all chips except the big FPGA (i have no extractor for such a monster).
I also noted that on the cpu socket there were a kind of glue that block contact...
I fighted for 1 hour at least to clean the support, yesterday night. Checked it well with multimeter it's ok.
I picked up 4 rams sticks from an another GVP serie2 hc+8 - 4x 1mb 3 chips (i don't know if there are good...).
Now i take my beasty 2000 ECS 6.2 (kick 3.1/VT2000/a2630/gvp hc+8/Gvp Spectrum/buddha ide/A2386/...)
So at first boot nothing happend... the GVP scsi did not boot at all.
Stop the machine, switch to 68k mode, ok the machine boot again, all my cards are present on the early, but made an error loading C:MakeDir just after setpatch.
So I reboot with no Startup, and seen there were no fastmem...
I took it off, replaced it, take off the GVP scsi
I restart and press the mouse button. This time I got the FF40 boot screen :-D
But options are grey, only the choice of NO-fastkick.
When i click on it, it reboot.... :roll:
I got to the purple screen, put a wb3.1 install disk, it booted. No visible FastMem present...
I typed setpatch to check the 040 presence, ok it found it.
Then put a GVP install disk to view the "check-up" and ...
no Z2 board found at all :-o !!!!
I rebooted an got a guru with code 8000000006 or something like that, and no way to get back to the FF40 boot menu except flash on screen... I rebooted one more time, go to the early and saw no Z2 cards in expension :crazy:
I put 4 more others 1mb ram (8 chips), and switched my GVP HC+8 from 0 to 2 mb, and then started.
The FF40 menu is still the same, but in the early, i got the GVP and it's dual component present ( scsi + ram) but not the other cards !!!, whatever it booted well my Wb3.1 on scsi, but still having 2 mb of fast (GVP). Showconfig told me that i have a 040 and GVP board that's all...
I've retried with Install3.1 disk to be sure, but it's still the same thing.
I have just downloaded the DMS on amiga resource CX, but i don't think that it will resolve my problems...
Any good advice ???
:-?
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So,
I took off the suspect 4 memory stick, took of the FPGA and clean it and its support.
But nothing change..
I'm gonna try the DMS...
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That's better. :-D
I must add the utility called SetFF before setpatch:
SetFF FPU VBR Addmem
The Fastkick option is refused with kick 3.1 (I have not yet tested the latest version of SetFF).
But this time the right amount of ram appears.
I had put the other 4 mb in, it is ok I have well 8 MB.
But again at the reboot, there is nothing to do, I always got the 8000006 guru...
With a click left and it leaves, but no way to enter in early or in the FF40 menu...
@Pyree : what will you do of your card ?
That did not solve my Z2 problem... no buddha, Spectrum, Bridgeboard....
Under AIBB, the memory map is seen in 2 pieces independent with a priority of "+30".
The copyback works very well anyway.
But I wonder if I have the latest ROM with the FF40 ...
I will also have to solve the 040 cooling problem (which for now runs only at 22 Mhz and 40 soon if the rest can follow).
Bcause there is an hdd sca on the GVP and an sca/scsi adapter which is just at 4mm of the cpu. ..
and the CPU is already very damn hot at half speed (the hdd close ot it also )!
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So progress again :
The problem of invisible ZII cards come from my GVP Spectrum EGS rev1.3 / 2mb. I took it off ET VOILA !!!
All the other cards appears and works (budha and 2386).
So I decided to put newest FF software, and add them in my StartupSeq :
SetFF >NIL: PRESET (which set MMU/FPU/VBR/Copyback on and do a kind of Blitzkick's trick with kickstart )
MoveMH (which put chipram TSR in Fast)
FFCache in the WBStartup.
and SetPatch v44.38 from OS3.5CD
I tried some installed software succesfully, it was ok.
AIBB now tell me that i have only 1 block of 7.4mb of FastRam on the card not 8 mb (0.6mb maybe due to kick trick and chipmem move).
But ShowConfig makes hang and reboot !!
Before I use "PRESET" (so no MMU and no kick trick), it worked ... Does it mean that my MMU is half dead or a conflict anywhere (68040 libs v36.2) ??
Then I tried, the benchmark P96Speed on 3.5CD, on NTSC mode 640x200-16 colours.
2 Tests makes crash the programm with an error 8000000002, it's :
WritePixelArray8() and WritePixelLine8().
I also notified a very annoying points :
- For 100% successfull boot, press right mouse button while powering it on.
- When you turn off the machine power and want to restart it quickly, you'll need that it get colder nor i won't boot at all...
I put a very tiny Radiator with intergred fan which was sold to me by DCE years ago. I just can fit it on half the CPU du to the SCA adapter on the GVP scsi... I can't put a bigger one. I used silver thermal paste and the radiator, whatever it's half fitted, works very well and got hot very quickly.
If you have idea, let me know !!
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You can put a small heatsink (low profile) over the 040 and use an "external" fan (one hanging from a DIY holder) just to blow fresh air toward the 'sink.
Apart of that, try to move the SCSI controller to another Zorro slot to give more space for airflow. And take out that 2Mb memory on the GVP SCSI, it is useless and only give you slowdowns in the system.
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For FastKick to work with 3.1 you need the latest version 3.4 ROMs.
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Hi,
I still have some strange behavior while booting...
Like the FPU option that makes hang (8000006) sometimes, and sometimes i don't turn on the MMU,
I will turn off the GVP ram, but it don't use it yet.
@TjLaser : yes I know well that, but how to check it ? There seems to have rom v3.1/3.2/3.4 of PnG roms....
I tried also on OS3.5, at first i crashed with the FPU option, then i restarted on Wb3.1 and rebooted on OS3.5 and it passed !!
I noticed that with OS3.5, SetFF 1.79 now told me well that he fastkicking the 3.1 rom. I didn't display that with WB3.1
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Tests of the day:
Libs v44 of P5 for 68040 -> it loses the ram and MMU
It is better to save SetFF after SetPatch for the FastKick goes well, but also to prevent 800000002 when FPU turn to on.
Tonight, I put 2 ISA 16 bits port on the mobo, turn off the ram on the GVP, put a CV64/3D to replace the Spectrum, and a VLab Y/c ..
Again, except the GVP no card viewed ...
I will check it tomorrow ... :-?
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Hello.
I thought this tread was dead... :-(
I will replace the heatsink on my FF, and try cleaning and reseating the socketed chips...
ATM i am working on my A500 and have not yet attempted doing anything on the a2000... Still trying to get hold of a cpu socket IDE controller... (scraping together some money at first)
@CLS2086
Nice work you have done, i will (when i get to the A2000) try to see what i can do with my Fusion Forty...
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Hi,
strange it didn't like my CV64/3D too. I take it, and all went right
How can i check that i have already the good PNG rom v3.4 and not PNG 3.1/3.2 ??
Do the other FF40 owner got such problems with RTG cards ??
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Hi,
I put new PNG rom v3.4, and it's better ! Thanks Tj.
This time, the card boot well. All the options (fastkick, FPU, mmu, ram...) are already done at the original boot, no more reboot and it's seems faster.
But i still can't use any one of my RTG cards !!
If i plug one of them, i can only see the GVP SCSI card. And when i took of the GVP, i see nothing in Z2...
Do the other FF40 owner got such problems with RTG cards ??
:-?
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Sadly I don't have any ZII RTG Cards I can test in mine...
Do you have any 16-bit RAM in your 2000 at all? (NOT the RAM on the F40 as this is 32-bit) If you have more than 4MB in the 16-bit range you cannot use a RTG card (as it has 4MB) Remember 8MB max on ZII bus.
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Hi,
I tried both solution ram on GVP scsi on (2mb) and off.
It doesn't change a lot the problem. When the FF40 is off, all is well detected...
I read again the FAQ :
http://www.lundblad.com/mattias/F40-FAQ.txt
and found :
- Piccolo/Spectrum, may need a PAL upgrade
[/b]
But how to get it ??
I wrote to some people in the FAQ, but no luck, there are no longer working.
So I wrote to Matthias Lundblad. I'll try to keep you informed.
But we may need to find some with the good "PAL" to duplicate it... If you have let me know. :-)
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I received some faster quartz, Oxyron patcher, and 32 mb :-)
I tried to put 60 and 66 Mhz, but the card reacted strangely, so i put a 55 Mhz and the card reworked correctly but still don't support my RTG cards...
I read some people got 33/35/40 Mhz models, but where is the trick ? I have a true 040/40... :-o
There may be an another upgrade to do...
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Did somebody of you managed to make the Fusion Forty working with Cybervision64/3D? Or with any other RTG Card?
Thanks.
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An aged old thread...
But i have found a probable reason to why the fusion forthy does not work in my amiga 2000.
My amiga 2000 is a rev. 4.0 motherboard. And most likely not compatible with any accelerator made for the cpu fast slot.
Anyone got any A2K motherboard for sale?
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Does anyone know why these mods are done? One of the U4 pins is bent up and U53 is removed.
https://postimg.org/image/9a446cv73/
https://postimg.org/image/h44prr2zz/
Fusion Forty does not boot at all if the fastkick is disabled (because of this modification?). Otherwise it seems to work normally.
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Does anyone know why these mods are done? One of the U4 pins is bent up and U53 is removed.
https://postimg.org/image/9a446cv73/
https://postimg.org/image/h44prr2zz/
Fusion Forty does not boot at all if the fastkick is disabled (because of this modification?). Otherwise it seems to work normally.
Maybe these are helpfull?
http://www.lundblad.com/mattias/f40.html
http://www.lundblad.com/mattias/F40-FAQ.txt
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Tnx. I could not find from links what the benefits U4 and U53 modification brings.
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An aged old thread...
But i have found a probable reason to why the fusion forthy does not work in my amiga 2000.
My amiga 2000 is a rev. 4.0 motherboard. And most likely not compatible with any accelerator made for the cpu fast slot.
Anyone got any A2K motherboard for sale?
Commodore modded many boards up to 6x.. you can prob. mod your board to at least 4.5 and all should work.
rev4.0 was pretty bad compatibility wise.
Not sure if it applies, but there were 2k refresh(common mac simms) and 4k refresh simms and the FF may be picky about this.
The early A2000's had a buster chip made by toshiba, some of these were problematic, replace with the CSG version may help
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Commodore modded many boards up to 6x.. you can prob. mod your board to at least 4.5 and all should work.
rev4.0 was pretty bad compatibility wise.
Not sure if it applies, but there were 2k refresh(common mac simms) and 4k refresh simms and the FF may be picky about this.
The early A2000's had a buster chip made by toshiba, some of these were problematic, replace with the CSG version may help
Not sure how you would attack the rev 4.0 MB for upgrading it. It lacks some of the more modern logics. as far as i can tell, there is no buster chip on them at all...