Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: redrumloa on March 21, 2008, 01:24:52 AM
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Many, many parts have come in and much, much work has been done! I'm getting tired tonight but I will touch on a little bit.
The power supply!!
(http://i29.tinypic.com/30ww01t.jpg)
Yes, that is a 128D power supply connector :-D As you see, there is a 120VAC -> 9VAC step down transformer bolted to the top of the ATX power supply. The 128D requires 9VAC, which the ATX standard down not provide. Here's another pic.
(http://i31.tinypic.com/33m0duq.jpg)
There is an ATX to AT adapter in use. The 128D does not need this, but I will for a later part of this project. This adapter also provides 2 leads I hooked to the switch, which will give a nice on/off switch!
:banana:
In other news, briefly.. The 128D internal 1571 has been converted for tower use, pictures will follow in a day or so. What a ball buster that was :crazy: I've even adapted a PC 5.25 faceplate, with fair results. Re-routing the joystick and keyboard ports will be finished tomorrow. With any luck I will have a full functioning, basic 128 tower tomorrow!!
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I look forward to seeing it when it is finished.
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trekiej wrote:
I look forward to seeing it when it is finished.
Thanks :-) I am taking my time on this, it will take a long while to finish completely. Only a few people have done such a project and no one has published information on it.
For 80 column video output I have purchased a CGA to VGA adapter. It is missing the intensity input for RGBi, but Commodore user Mangelore has published a simple fix. Cost $120 shipped(OUCH). This converter has a pass through and input switch. The converted 40 column singal will go into the input and the input switch will be routed to the top front of the case for video selection. This adapter has arrived and should be installed in the case this weekend!
For 40 column output I purchased a common composite to VGA adapter. Cost ~$40 shipped. Has not arrived yet :boohoo:
Ports:
If you saw earlier pictures you know the joystick and keyboard ports are toward the front of the case. The case closed in this configuration. However, with a bare connector plugged into the ports, the front part of the case will barely not fit even after grinding what little surface off I could. The solution is de-solder the original right angle DB9 and DB25 connectors and replace them with straight connectors. I could just solder wires to the board, but I am trying to keep this clean. Straight connectors have arrived and also should get installed this weekend.
:hammer:
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Sponsored by Coca Cola... ;-)
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
Sponsored by Coca Cola... ;-)
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moto
I wish! :lol:
This project is getting real expensive real quick!! Hmm.. I guess it could be sponsored by motorollin if you would like! Want to make a donation? ;-)
FrankenCommie - Sponsored by motorollin
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So that is where the 128D case came from. lol
Do you have a superCPU128? It would be a cool add on.
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I'm looking forward to seeing the basic tower. Nice project.
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trekiej wrote:
So that is where the 128D case came from. lol
Do you have a superCPU128? It would be a cool add on.
Yup, that's where the case came from :-D I do indeed have a SuperCPU which I intend to incorporate into the tower at some point!
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Ah man! That is just wrong! :-D I never had a superCPU. I would like to get some C64 and 128 stuff again and find a superCPU or make my own. Unfortunately, I can't now.
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redrumloa wrote:
I guess it could be sponsored by motorollin if you would like! Want to make a donation? ;-)
FrankenCommie - Sponsored by motorollin
:lol:
Would if I could mate since it's a great project - but I'm a student now...
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moto
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trekiej wrote:
Ah man! That is just wrong! :-D I never had a superCPU. I would like to get some C64 and 128 stuff again and find a superCPU or make my own. Unfortunately, I can't now.
Do to lack of space, time and money I made myself chose between C= 8bit and Amiga a while back for my hobby, C= 8bit won. For some reason old Amiga hardware seems to be getting flaky, more so than the even older C= 8bit hardware.
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Are you sure that you need 9VAC?
If that’s the supply to the C128 then surely you could follow the supply chain down on the C128 and wire in the +V DC supplies from the PSU directly to the C128? Probably after some regulator stage or summat?
NB. I’m guessing here, I've never had a C128. Note that you’d have to disconnect whatever’s before your feed point to prevent damage.
Just an idea.
Hodgkinson.
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Hodgkinson wrote:
Are you sure that you need 9VAC?
If that’s the supply to the C128 then surely you could follow the supply chain down on the C128 and wire in the +V DC supplies from the PSU directly to the C128? Probably after some regulator stage or summat?
NB. I’m guessing here, I've never had a C128. Note that you’d have to disconnect whatever’s before your feed point to prevent damage.
Just an idea.
Hodgkinson.
Some people operate without the 9VAC, but you lose the time of day clock, user port and other problems. I want to do this as properly as possible. Here's a clip from usenet.
Internally, the 9VAC is routed to
the user port, CIA time of day clocks, and is regulated to 5VDC and 12VDC with a charge pump technique. These are used to provide separate power to the VIC and SID which keeps all the high frequency noise inside the computer off the power supply of these IC's, which would result in audio or video
distortion.
I know that huge 120VAV/9VAC step down transformer is a bit unsightly, but for a first project of this type I will go this route. That transformer was a bit hard to find too and cost me about $18 shipped.
Thanks for your input :-)
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Ah ha - OK. Sounds like the supply system isn't as simple as I thought it might be.
Just make sure that you have a good thick 0v common connection between the PC PSU and the C128 PSU system to prevent any currents flowing back to ground resulting in voltage offsets due to voltage drop down other thinner wires.
Hodgkinson.
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redrumloa wrote:
As you see, there is a 120VAC -> 9VAC step down transformer bolted to the top of the ATX power supply.
Is the transformer alays connected to mains, or did you add a relay to toggle it as the PSU starts?
I used an AT PSU for my C-64T, mainly because I wanted a single switch to turn the PSU + trafo + monitor totally off. With an AT PSU, I didn't need to hunt down relays, I just tapped power to the trafo after the switch.
Probably a non-issue, as there are no power switches in original C-64 or C-128 PSUs either. Always good to think green, though. :-D
http://jope.fi/c64t/ in case you're interested.
Mine is not tip top, but I tried to make it as neat as possible.. It needs a neater port plate for the back of the tower, but otherwise I'm rather satisfied.
I also opted not to wire in video -> VGA converters, my flat panel monitor has s-video and SCART connectors behind it.
redrumloa wrote:
Only a few people have done such a project and no one has published information on it.
Nate/Vanessa Dannenberg's C-128 tower project has been on her website since 10 years ago.. The site seems to be down currently, but you can check out archive.org:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070628230052/starbase.globalpc.net/~vanessa/hobbies/c128tower.html
Hope it comes back up some day so you can see the pictures.
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@Jope
Is the transformer alays connected to mains, or did you add a relay to toggle it as the PSU starts?
The transformer is currently connected to the the load side of the ATX power switch (main) and it is fused. If I shut off the ATX power supply switch(on the PS itself), the transformer shuts off. If I use the case on off switch, the transformer is staying live. Shouldn't be a problem, but I will probably add a relay at some point.
http://jope.fi/c64t/ in case you're interested. (http://jope.fi/c64t/ in case you're interested.)
Saw that, pretty nice dude :-)
Nate/Vanessa Dannenberg's C-128 tower project has been on her website since 10 years ago.. The site seems to be down currently, but you can check out archive.org:
http://web.archive.org/web/20070628230052/starbase.globalpc.net/~vanessa/hobbies/c128tower.html
Hope it comes back up some day so you can see the pictures.
Shame it's down and no pictures on archive.org. Vanessa has been very helpful on comp.sys.cbm with questions I've had and gave a very nice explanation on how to create an expansion port extension cable.
This has become a HUGE project, but I expect stage one to be done this upcoming week. I am mainly waiting on the composite to vga converter to arrive in the mail. Stage one will be a fully functional 128 with 1571 and 1750, with one VGA output. Stage 2 will probably be to incorporate 64HDD internally and stage 3 will be to incorporate SuperCPU 128 and RamLink internally.
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the guy that did buy the Nate/Vanessa Dannenberg's C-128 tower project. was this guy at http://www.64hdd.com/ he did have pictures and stuff of the restoration of the macine and stuff on his site...
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A bit OT, but still related to PSU's:
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=2386
That projects going to be scrapped due to reasons listed there. The new one, which is going to use an ATX PSU with an always-on pass-thru mains port, is going to have a 20A 12V relay rigged in line with the pass-thru, so the monitor and other devices can all be turned off from the floppy port of the A1200.
But im straying OT here... :roll:
Hodgkinson.
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Here's more pics!! I'll follow up tomorrow with details, tired tonight :lotsacoffee:
(http://i27.tinypic.com/xlguts.jpg)
Here it is buttoned up running CP/M on a 15" SVGA monitor.
(http://i27.tinypic.com/14vqm9e.jpg)
Inside pic #1
(http://i28.tinypic.com/264jm34.jpg)
Inside pic #2
g'nite :-)
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What other 5.25 drives do you think you can add? Maybe it would be possible to cobble together a tape cassette drive in there (if they exist in that form)? Did the C128 ever had the option to use standard 3.5 floppys?
Sorry to bombard you with questions but it would be great to see the tower go to even better use.
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What other 5.25 drives do you think you can add?
I probably won't add any more 5.25 drives, but I plan on putting a 1581 3.5 drive internal.
Maybe it would be possible to cobble together a tape cassette drive in there (if they exist in that form)?
I have no use for a cassette drive. I know they were popular in the EU, but not so much here.
Did the C128 ever had the option to use standard 3.5 floppys?
Standard 3.5 DD floppy disks? Yes. Standard 3.5 PC drives? No. I will convert a 1581 to go internal.
Sorry to bombard you with questions but it would be great to see the tower go to even better use.
No problems with questions. Don't worry about it going to better use, I am still only at the beginning of this project. Just about every inch of real estate inside the case will be used. I'm going to write some details this morning about the status. I guess I will use this thread, should be done soon.
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(http://i30.tinypic.com/13zqve8.jpg)
This is the back of the tower. Currently the ports you see are standard SVGA (db15), keyboard (db25), 2x joystick (db9) and standard audio out in the top slot(pseudo stereo).
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Here we go..
I have mentally broken this project into 3 loosely defined stages. I am close to the end of stage one now.
Stage 1:
Modify case heavily to accommodate 128D motherboard
Modify ATX power supply for 128D MB, include 9VAC transformer
Modify internal 1571 from 128D to use in tower
Modify standard PC 5.25 floppy faceplate to use with 1571
Remove DB9, DB15 and DB25 right angle ports and replace with straight panel mount type on 128D MB.
Make and install extension cables to relocate MB ports to back panel
Modify panel mount power switch to add 12V LED and mount to case
Install RGBi to SVGA converter with pass through
Install Composite video to SVGA converter, put output into RBGi converter pass through
Install video select toggle switch to front panel
Install standard audio jack to back panel, wire for pseudo stereo from 128D audio out
Remove original 128D internal 1571 floppy indicator LED and wire to LED on modified 5.25 faceplate
Install "Chicken Head" Commodore case badge
Stage 2:
Create expansion port extension cable
Mount SuperCPU 128 internally
Mount RamLink internally
Add battery for RamLink backup
Mount 1750 ram expansion internally
Add TBD RS232 adapter, possibly Swiftlink Clone, mount DB9 to back panel
Modify and install 1581 internally
Modify PC 3.5 floppy faceplate to use with 1581
Install MMU adapter
Install JiffyDOS for 128D
Remove original 128D MB and 1571 reset switches, wire to momentary switches on front panel
Add buttload of switches and LEDs to front panel, including all for SuperCPU and RamLink plus all 8-11 selection switches for internal drives
Install expansion (cartridge) port pass-through to front 5.25 bay
Stage 3:
Install SBC Pentium-1 internally with CF card
Install MSDOS and 64HDD
More TBD
Well that's it off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm missing a lot and I'm sure things can change some as time goes on. That's a pretty good snapshot at this time :-)
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why dont you post about this at http://www.lemon64.com/forum/index.php people there love this stuff.... ;-)
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A1260 wrote:
why dont you post about this at http://www.lemon64.com/forum/index.php people there love this stuff.... ;-)
Be my guest :-D I'm already posting abot it here mainly, but also commodore128.org and comp.sys.cbm at times.
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I'm really looking forward to seeing this progress over the next few months, I wish you the best of luck mate.
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Maybe it would be possible to cobble together a tape cassette drive in there (if they exist in that form)?
I have no use for a cassette drive. I know they were popular in the EU, but not so much here.
So? I don't use the floppy drive in my PC either. Just put a cassette drive in there for the geek factor! :-D
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maybe the plus deck can be used as cassette player...
http://www.firebox.com/product/1700?src_t=wnw¤cy_conversion=1
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I think I'd rather punch cards over cassette tapes! But the idea is to make this more modern, not retro :crazy: You guys are nuts with that cassette idea :-P
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No Datasette, but a DC2N would be cool!
(http://www.luigidifraia.com/c64/dc2n/images/DC2N_PCB_play.jpg) (http://www.luigidifraia.com/c64/dc2n/index.html)
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adolescent wrote:
No Datasette, but a DC2N would be cool!
That does indeed look pretty cool if someone had a bunch of old cassette tapes! :-) Certainly have been a bunch of hobby projects like this lately for the Commodore 8bit. To bad it hasn't happened with the Amiga for the most part, except Minimig.
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@red
:-? You just need to look harder. There are a hand full of great hobby projects like tnt32's floppy emulator, lordv's A600 RAM expansion, etc.
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Scandoubler/flicker fixer? Do they exist for the C128?
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tokyoracer wrote:
Scandoubler/flicker fixer? Do they exist for the C128?
Composite (40 column) to SVGA - very common, I bought this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290216128382&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=019).
RGBi (80 column) to SVGA doesn't exist, one has to be modified. I bought this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150217363889&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=005) and modified it myself. The modification is quite simple. This is a scandoubler, but not a flicker fixer. The VDC does indeed have interlace modes, but almost no software supports it. I have not tested mine for interlace yet, but I suspect there will still be flicker.
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redrumloa wrote:
Standard 3.5 DD floppy disks? Yes. Standard 3.5 PC drives? No. I will convert a 1581 to go internal.
The same tricks apply for the 1581 as the Amiga concerning the drive mechanisms. You can modify a PC drive to be Amiga/1581 compatible and it will mount neatly in the front panel.
Mine is done like that, I'm using a modified PC mechanism.
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The same tricks apply for the 1581 as the Amiga concerning the drive mechanisms. You can modify a PC drive to be Amiga/1581 compatible and it will mount neatly in the front panel.
Mine is done like that, I'm using a modified PC mechanism.
In that sense, yes you are correct. I was thinking about getting an Amiga 2000 drive, but maybe a PC drive would be better. Did you reference anything for your project? An Aminet hack maybe?
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One more pic:
(http://i28.tinypic.com/24y06yc.jpg)
Running Geos128.
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The internals look pretty clean and the back panel too.
Congratulations.
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redrumloa wrote:
Did you reference anything for your project? An Aminet hack maybe?
Just the knowledge about PC drive modifications you can gather from amiga.org and eab.
Get DC to pin 2 and RDY to pin 34 and make the drive answer to DS0. ;-) The Brazilian dudes figured out a way to cheat the RDY signal by jumpering pin 30 to pin 34 on the drive, but I haven't tried that myself.
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Get DC to pin 2 and RDY to pin 34 and make the drive answer to DS0. ;-) The Brazilian dudes figured out a way to cheat the RDY signal by jumpering pin 30 to pin 34 on the drive, but I haven't tried that myself.
Hmm.. I might be pestering you here soon for info :-D
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Yes, your project looks really good! Congratulations.
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Fester wrote:
Yes, your project looks really good! Congratulations.
Thanks!! :-D
I await delivery of orders from Mouser, Jameco and the composite-VGA adapter from China to continue to the next step. With any luck I will be going full steam into stage 2 this weekend. The expansion port extension cable will be a {bleep}...
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I couldn't help thinking the power supply was only half done, so I spent the night tweaking it. The 9VAC would shut off if the ATX power supply switch turned off, but not if the case switch only was used. I decided a relay would be needed. Here is what I came up with.
(http://i27.tinypic.com/2rzov2t.jpg)
A relay alone would have been easier, but I decided I wanted an indicator LED. Easier said than done when output is 9VAC. A bridged rectifier was needed. Below is the relay mounted to the power supply.
(http://i30.tinypic.com/10ykmit.jpg)
The relay coil is picked up from the ATX 5VDC from the connector shown in the picture. I will probably eventually wire that directly to the ATX board.
So far it passes testing and works great, even the LED lights! :-o 9VAC turns off with the regular case power switch. That is more like it.
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Now does the ATX switch behave like it does in an ATX mobo system - eg one tap shuts down from the system or press and hold to "sleep" or what? :-)
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Maybe it would work ok with just the LED and a resistor - Even on AC (The LED is a diode in itself)? OK, maybe the led would flash at 50Hz :crazy: , but this shouldn't be much of a problem.
Hey, maybe you could just use one of those LED's with a built in resistor?
Just a thought (Nicely done anyhow),
Hodgkinson.
EDIT: What's the relay switching? The 9VAC side or the mains side of the transformer? If im right in saying it’s a reed relay; they aren’t normally designed to switch much current. Maybe a 100mA or so at most, and not usually mains either.
EDIT2: Hey, what about having a high current relay, controlled from the ATX PSU, switching the mains side of the transformer? That way, you can save on the energy costs of having the transformer powered up all the time, and you can use a neon indicator (W. resistor of course) on the mains side rather than trying to use a LED.
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B00tDisk wrote:
Now does the ATX switch behave like it does in an ATX mobo system - eg one tap shuts down from the system or press and hold to "sleep" or what? :-)
No, it actually behaves like an AT system. Either completely on or completely off.
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Maybe it would work ok with just the LED and a resistor - Even on AC (The LED is a diode in itself)? OK, maybe the led would flash at 50Hz , but this shouldn't be much of a problem.
I thought about that, but I figured making a bridge rectifier should be easy enough and it was. I even added a capacitor to smooth out the pulse. The led looks rock solid when lite. BTW we have 60hz @ ~120V on this side of the pond.
EDIT: What's the relay switching? The 9VAC side or the mains side of the transformer? If im right in saying it’s a reed relay; they aren’t normally designed to switch much current. Maybe a 100mA or so at most, and not usually mains either.
It is indeed a reed relay and it is on the 9VAC side, not the main. I could have put it on the main side, it is rated for 1A at 125V. C128 brick power supplies are rated for 1A for 9VAC, so this can easily handle it.
The step down transformer I am using for 9VAC is freaking huge, only because it was the best/cheapest I could find for this project in a quick search. It is completely and entirely overkill for this application. It is a multi-tap transformer with only the 9VAC being used and it is rated at like 2A on the main side. It was cheap, it cost me about $6 + shipping. The main electronics houses here didn't have anything even close in stock.
EDIT2: Hey, what about having a high current relay, controlled from the ATX PSU, switching the mains side of the transformer? That way, you can save on the energy costs of having the transformer powered up all the time, and you can use a neon indicator (W. resistor of course) on the mains side rather than trying to use a LED.
I was originally thinking about putting this relay on the main side, but I decided I didn't want exposed 120V inside the case. Yeah I probably could have mounted this board in the PS itself, but I didn't feel comfortable doing that. The transformer will be energized all the time, but how much loss can it really have idle? It can't be much. I can always still switch off the ATX switch, which will kill it too. It picks up power after the ATX switch.
Thanks for the great comments and suggestions! :-)
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redrumloa wrote:
It is indeed a reed relay and it is on the 9VAC side, not the main. I could have put it on the main side, it is rated for 1A at 125V. C128 brick power supplies are rated for 1A for 9VAC, so this can easily handle it.
Doh! Looks like the reed relay was a bad choice, the coil failed. I probably should have put a current limiting resistor before the coil. Back to Radio shack..
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Doh. ;-) Coil O/C? That’s odd...The only time we've had that happen is when the relay was virtually full with water for half a year...
I'd still advise a nice chunky standard relay :rtfm:
Hodgkinson.
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Cripes, it has an OS!? Will a HD connect to a 128?
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Hodgkinson wrote:
I'd still advise a nice chunky standard relay :rtfm:
Maybe, but I hate the chunkiness..
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This is a nice project...
The C= 128 motherboard looks lovely too.
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redrumloa wrote:
One more pic:
(http://i28.tinypic.com/24y06yc.jpg)
Running Geos128.
Now that's just cool 8-)
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tokyoracer wrote:
Cripes, it has an OS!? Will a HD connect to a 128?
Not easy, but yes. For pure speed I will have a 16MB RamLink internal, which is essentially a 16MB hard drive and the fastest mass storage option for 8bit commies.
I will also be installing a X86 SBC (single board computer) internally as a slave to run 64HDD (http://64hdd.com/64hdd.html). That will give me a hard drive as big as I wish and acts like a hard drive. At first I will just be using a 4GB Compact Flash, but I may add a large IDE hard drive (200GB?) and CD-ROM eventually.
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This is a nice project...
Now that's just cool 8-)
Thanks guys, I'm quite happy so far :-D
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What is the X86 SBC that you will be using?
Just currios.
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trekiej wrote:
What is the X86 SBC that you will be using?
Just currios.
This one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220200105064&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=012) :-)
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Why can't we put them in our miggies? :crazy:
BTW, Congrats on winning the auction ;-)
Im a bit confused as to how thats actually going to connect to your C128...
Hodgkinson.
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That should actually go into any big-box Amiga without problems, since it seems to be nothing but a standard PC mounted on an ISA-card. You could even install up to 3 more ISA/XT-cards if you'd want. Offcourse no inbuild communication with the Amiga-side .....
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I take it you got that "Commodore" Case Badge for that tower, how about you slap a couple of these on your machine (one on each side)?
C= Sticker (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/COMMODORE-LOGO-STICKER-c64-c128-car-decal-vic-20-vinyl_W0QQitemZ250233406584QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250233406584)
Or this?
Another C= sticker (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/COMMODORE-LOGO-STICKER-laptop-geek-80s-64-IT-retro_W0QQitemZ370021037507QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item370021037507)
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redrumloa wrote:
I will also be installing a X86 SBC
I've been thinking to install one of those in my A2500. I don't know exactly yet what I'm going to use it for, but it'll be "just because I can". Maybe I'll make an internal monitor/mouse/keyboard switcher in combination with a Lyra or something, so I can use all standard Amiga hardware and still run x86 Linux..
I may add a large IDE hard drive (200GB?)
Wow, that way you can have 6 copies of all C64/C128 software that's ever been made on a single harddisk! :lol:
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The 9VAC relay board is fixed!! A more heavy duty PC relay is now used.
(http://i28.tinypic.com/1fiw77.jpg)
Here's a pic of the composite to VGA converter getting mounted.
(http://i27.tinypic.com/fbgbaf.jpg)
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I've been thinking to install one of those in my A2500. I don't know exactly yet what I'm going to use it for, but it'll be "just because I can".
Yup, if you find one like this it would go right into an ISA slot. No communication internally to the Amiga, but you can connect via serial null modem. Maybe install a stripped down Linux, which you could access via terminal.
Quote:
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I may add a large IDE hard drive (200GB?)
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Wow, that way you can have 6 copies of all C64/C128 software that's ever been made on a single harddisk!
I can have a complete library of Commodore software at my fingers, correct. I can also have a SID collection, MOD collection, graphic library (Koala, JPG, MacPaint, Ipaint etc) and anything else I can think of :-D Geos software can get pretty beefy.
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> A more heavy duty PC relay is now used.
;-)
Hodgkinson.
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Hodgkinson wrote:
> A more heavy duty PC relay is now used.
;-)
Hodgkinson.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I never claimed to be an electronics guru :-P You can certainly hear the computer turn off and on now. Clunk! Clunk!
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:lol: Well, at least its better than my XP tower - Whenever I use the motherboard USB sockets, and come to turn it off, windows shuts down, there's a click, and the machine stays on! Avoid the mobo USB, and it turns off fine every time (Including during crashes :crazy: )
Hodgkinson.