Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: HopperJF on March 02, 2008, 11:32:35 PM
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Hi,
Basically as an ex-Amiga user I just feel I should say something about this site and the community as a whole.
For almost 15 years since the death of Commodore the Amiga has suffered an ever dwindling user base and through those years morale has been up and down a lot. Sadly a lot of the "ups" were false hope of a new product be it hardware or software however at least the AmigaOne actually *did* get released as did OS4... eventually.
However it is obvious that the longer these trials continue the more the Amiga community will probably shrink as one by one members reach their "wall" where they feel they can no longer continue or bear to follow this madness any longer.
I initially thought I reached such a point in 2003 when I sold off my main machine, an Amiga, and "switched" to Mac. I am now a PC user.
The point is... I remain an Amiga fan through all of this.
I stopped taking the Amiga seriously many years ago now, and I'm sure most people now see it as a fun hobby and have stopped convincing themselves that Amiga is a force to be reckoned with in today's modern computer world of Java, multi-core processors, multi-threaded/memory protected OSes, fast-paced games etc. (you get the idea).
The sad thing is it seems evident from this site.
Whilst I completely understand why people would abandon the Amiga, at least as their main platform, I think it is sad that some feel that when they leave, they leave the community too.
I don't think the two should be together... I think as long as someone admires the Amiga then there is no harm in still contributing to forums and checking what is going on in the Amiga scene, even if they no longer have an Amiga... who knows one day we could see new hardware.
The point is that sites like Amiga.org and the small fragile Amiga community is all we have left now. We need to keep things like this going, whether we still use Amigas or not... because the Amiga community is a beautiful thing.
It is almost like a phenomenon... nothing will be like it ever again. The Mac, Windows and Linux worlds do not have communities as dedicated and passionate as the Amiga community.
It would be a shame to let such a thing die. So whether you still use an Amiga or not, it's important that all Amiga fans stick together and keep sites like this alive and active :)
It would be sad that if someone left and came to check on Amiga.org 5 years from now in 2013 and find that it is gone!
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Aw, cheer up!
There's things like Aros and Minimig...
I think the open source community will welcome open source hard- and software (especially if the hard- and software are built for each other) :-)
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Not only Aros and Minimig, but people like DJBase, lordv, mrmkl, and many talented others keep coming up with AMAZING new professional quality projects with spare time and money that they probably don't have to make our old systems more powerful. Not too long ago you couldn't easily take a stock Amiga 1000 and add Kickstart 2.x or 3.1, and an IDE hard drive! Plus there is the Clone-A project as well.
What we need to do also is make sure the gathering places stay alive as well. Cheers to Wayne for keeping this web site up for all of these years. I know I need to feed the kitty more often than I do.
-Jeff
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Jeff wrote:
.... Not too long ago you couldn't easily take a stock Amiga 1000 and add Kickstart 2.x or 3.1, and an IDE hard drive! ....
-Jeff
Not sure what you mean by the above Jeff, but I had the ability to add different KickstartROMs to my A1000 since 1987 and also had an internal 2.5" hard drive with the AdIDE controller at the same time. It cost me a small fortune at the time for the ROM switcher/HD/AdIDE/2mb RAM, but I had my autobooting A1000 way back in 1987. :-o
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Well I am aware of the AdIDE but they simply aren't available right now. I looked for a LONG time and finally gave up when I was out bid at $200.00 on ebay a while back.
Now you can buy or make the IDE 68K project for a very reasonable price. As far as Kickstart goes, I really didn't research it. I just watched DJBases project and bought that when it came available, again very professional and reasonably priced.
The options that you mention are great too, nothing wrong except availability. I had mine also back in 88 or so, but I foolishly traded it off. I am only just now rebuilding the 1000's that I sold years ago.
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I think it was well put...
I still consider myself an Amiga user, but sadly my main machines are not Amigas.
I still use my Amiga for audio stuff. the 8bit Paula still sounds great running in through recording hardware. It has such a nice strong signal!. I'm still a sample tracker user.
Still a great way to compose tracks.....
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Well yeah, that's all very true. I come and go at the site as my enthusiasm fades and pops back up. Right now, I'm in a 'I'm back phase' It will pass, but I'll always be a fan, follower of things Amiga.
I don't need for Amiga to be a phoenix. I'm happy with it as a community and a special piece of hardware & OS people still use for purpose & fun.
Having said that, I do buy new hardware at times and got OS4C, but only because I had the ppc hardware for years and years. Back then it seemed remotely feasible that new hardware and owners could jump back into the present.
What I could never get and still don't is why 'Amiga' or the 68k OS has not gone open source? This should have happened a million years ago. These chump companies still trying to squeeze a dime out of a logo and community, has just killed it. Crap like Amiga Anywhere. Base ball caps and rings tones. You can have it.
But I still come back here.
:-D
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Amiga owners are like amateur radio operators. Yeah, I can talk to Tibet on Skype but the fun is building your own antenna and talking to Tibet on low power with no net and on 10 watts. This is the Amiga owner. A Modern computer will run rings around an Amiga but there's some satisfaction in knowing that you built the routines that ran the program and that you did it on a machine that has far less power than a mobile phone.
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I left my Amiga behind in 1997, when I left my home country (Australia). I'd bought a PC that year too - a second hand 486, mainly because work had switched to windows 3.1, and my bridgeboard setup wasn't going to cut it for work at home.
The PC was 'just for work', when I had to bring work home. Most of my free time was spent with Devpac 3, Dpaint, and Protracker on the Amiga.
When I was leaving I looked over the costs involved and the headaches of converting to NTSC, different Power supplies, and the writing on the wall already with C= (AGA too little, too late). So I left it behind with a friend (who still only had a 1000 - man was he happy!)
The only time I've even come close to the fun I had with my Amiga was with the Linux crowd - I even set my Xwindows up to look like my old Amiga, eventually dual booting to Amithlon. But with a new job in TV News and then video production, I had to bite my lip and use Windows.
(I know some will say 'but VIDEO TOASTER!', sorry to say - but in a world dominated by Avid and now Final Cut, I would be asked 'Video....what?' if it was on my resume - and of course bringing work home and sending back finished EDL's over the net is a wonderful thing - but I digress).
Still... there's something about the machine that I keep going back to - even if it's only on an emulator (which again still doesn't seem to capture the full feeling for me). I tried for 10 years to rebuild my old machine - and was thwarted by a finite budget and huge ebay prices.
I've come and gone on this site a few times, mainly lurking - a little active, but couldn't remember my old username or password. Read up on the news, surfed the web to catch up. The Amiga is like the great tragedy of the computer revolution. It was ahead of it's time and a lot of people 'didn't get it' - The types of people who loved the Amiga are very much like the people who created it.
It's a sort of high tech Haight Ashbury that attracted fantastically talented people who shared a lot of the things they discovered with a tight community.
However the people who OWN Amiga are the exact OPPOSITE.
'Running the show' it seems were folks that just wanted to exploit what was made - then throw it away. AGA came too little too late with C=, when Amithlon came I thought it was 'the answer' - no longer being a slave to the dwindling supply of hardware, maybe eventually opening the way to NEW hardware. Maybe it would be the step to transitioning old software to new hardware.... But again - the way I read the story is it ended over squabbles about money and who could get what.
Every year like you say - there's less and less people around, and the companies that hold the IP for the OS and the other bits and bobs haven't really done that much - to my mind it seems like they are hovering, waiting to get a bigger slice of a rapidly diminishing pie, cashing in on the name alone.
That being said (in this already overly long post) - what remains of the community is just as it ever was, and just as I ever remembered it. In 24 hours after I finally got my Ami folks have been rapidly posting info for me - answering my (somewhat boneheaded) questions and giving advice, people have been sending me PM's about my machine... Other people I've never known seem genuinely as excited as I am about getting back on the horse again.
And that is something you will NEVER find in the rapidly growing PC Windows community - something I NEVER found even in the budding years of Linux - and I doubt anyone buying a classic mac at a pawn shop would experience with the Apple community.
I was 2 years old and on the other side of the planet during Woodstock - so I'm glad I got to be a part of this movement - and like lots of the old hippies, I'll keep thinking back to it and trying to recapture a little bit of it now and again.
My 2c, with a buck 50 tip!
Cheers!
Sig.
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I don't write long posts (Thank goodness! :lol:) But to me coming to A.Org feels as much a part of being an Amigan as switching one on :-)
:cheers:
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I was a serious Amiga user till about 1999 (from '89 I guess). I got really despondant when new software and machines stopped appearing, and the magazines went. I never dropped out completely, still looked on the major forums.
Now i'm back as a hobbyist, as opposed to a hardcore user. Just enjoying using the machine again, for what it could/can do. Rather than waiting for some mythical rebirth. (....which would still be nice though!)
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Well......I still use my Amiga. I do all my writing on Finalwriter, collect my mail, use DPaint 4 and many more things. I reacently took it to work and people we absolutly amazed of what could be done.
Long live the Amiga and its community. :-D :-D :-D
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There are people who collect old valve radios dating from 30's and 40's maybe earlier.
Can anyone imagine owning and possibly using a 50 year old amiga?
We are almost half way there with the a1000.
If we do collect old amigas should they be factory spec or will enhancements be acceptable?
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Perhaps their should be a section of the forum devoted to collectors issues. How does the use of non-original parts affect the value? What parts can be replaced without affecting the visual appearance of the machine? Etc.
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We know that batteries and capacitors leak and destroy tracks on the motherboard, so we must replace them with new components, how long will equivalent parts be available?
We know integrated circuits suffer from "silicon rot" which renders chips non functional after 10 years or so, so we are lucky our custom chips still work, there is a limit to how long an amiga with original components will last.
I am now starting to hear that lead free solder has problems, products failing after 4-5 years. so repairs should use leaded solder if possible.
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Perhaps their should be a section of the forum devoted to collectors issues. How does the use of non-original parts affect the value? What parts can be replaced without affecting the visual appearance of the machine? Etc.
I guess that there will be collectors who want a pristine computer as a thing to have, just like other antique professional tools like doctor's kits have value to specialist collectors. I hear an Apple I or one of the other rare models is worth some coin. I doubt it's ever switched on. And it's not really what Amiga.org is about IMHO.
To me that's a very different market than the people who use them. The more modded/upgraded, the better, was how we usually saw them. A1000? OK. Starboard 2MB? Rockin'. Added a SCSI interface to it? Way out there. Clock chip inserted into the keyboard cable? Now we're talking! Now, you'd get the same street cred from a towered 1200 / PPC / PCI video. Or go stealth, like my last A1200: 68060 with 64MB on the belly card, flicker-fixing output, external SCSI CDROM, was working on PC Card Ethernet to a community WiFi when I finally gave up.
As far as visual appearance, AmiWest 5 years ago had an A1000, but it was gutted, with a miniature PC board, running Amithlon. They even had a small keyboard that fit in the "garage" IIRC. THAT was cool. But not quite as cool as an A1200 in a Commodore SX64 case, using the original video display, which was there the year before. Hack for hack's sake!
I loved the Amiga because the environment you worked in was so customizable, long before any other handy microcomputer would let you do the same. My 1.4 GHz macmini and 3 GHz multithreaded notebook, neither one seems as responsive and friendly as my Amigas. :-?
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There are two kinds of collectors, one's who want a pristine machine and ones that want a souped up version with all the bells and whistles. Look at antique cars, some people want a pristine Model T, other want fancy running boards, new colours, maybe a bigger engine, etc.
So as we go forward as a collector community we need to address those concerns. Replacing chips that are dead, cleaning the equipment, etc. There are old radio collectors out there that are similar. The Amiga world isn't that unique.
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I still consider myself an Amiga user and even tho it is not my main machine anymore, i own more of them than anyother computer type (like a peecee and MAC) and yes i do use my Amigas often. I use my A3000 about 5 days of the week, my A1000 about2-3 times and unfortunately until i finish restoring my A4000 I wont be using her. I also have an A1200 in storage and when i move she will be brought out and played with. I even bought AmigaForever from Cloanto so that i may play the Amiga on my laptop and on another PC of mine. The fact that the Amiga hasn't had really anything new of late and that Amiga now is owned by a bunch of dumb a...butts doesn't mean the community is dead. Without new hardware to buy I am finding it kinda fun restoring old Amigas and finding gems I missed before like the A3000 (which I picked up about 1-1/2 months ago) and I am constanly searching for new fun things to buy for them. I don't think that being all sappy is actually gonna help the community much, you state what we already know and I DO plan on being here 5 yrs from now talking about the new item i finally found for my A500 (bodega bay:) when i finally find one working. So lets do what Amigans have always done...Have fun with our machine just because it's fun. Cheers!!!
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I must admit I have been reconsidering why I'm still about in the Amiga scene. I've tried to leave a couple of times but I've always ended up returning after a break. I have a sneaking suspicion that I will soon fade away from things. Even though I log on several times a day, I rarely get much further than looking at the latest posts list.
I once had an amazing passion for the platform. There was a great excitement that surrounded the machine and the community. I used to look forward to TekMage's streaming audio from the AmiWest shows. I used to check ANN, a.org and CAN constantly. My Amiga was my main machine. Computing was fun. (I should probably point out that I wasn't about for the "glory days", I didn't get into Amigas until the late 90's)
The brilliant mailing lists such as AFB that were once so alive and interesting now lay virtually dormant. Most of the great folks who originally inspired me to join up here have now moved on to better things. It's all very sad.
While I'm glad that the majority of what's left of the community have moved away from the idea that the platform will ever be resurrected, I can't help but think that it's a shame that it's now all about retro. I'm not really that interested in playing old games. For me, the platform was always about creativity and unabashed geeking. Deep down I've longed for the middle ground between the two, where the future isn't completely abandoned, the past is not ignored, and the community could settle down in its place at the fringes of computing. I feel that there have been various missed opportunities at achieving that such as Amithlon and AROS. I don't think this could ever be done now.
I don't mean to be a downer on an otherwise positive thread, just been going through a period of personal introspection in recent weeks and have developed a need to think out load about stuff.
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You're just pathetic guys!
You and the so-called amiga scene today!
And, BTW, Amiga.org should be SHUT DOWN, along with amigaworld.net, amigans.net, hyperion, amiga.inc !
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0amigan0 wrote:
You're just pathetic guys!
You and the so-called amiga scene today!
And, BTW, Amiga.org should be SHUT DOWN, along with amigaworld.net, amigans.net, hyperion, amiga.inc !
I guess the poor guy flipped his lid after getting no replies to his threads HERE (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33729) and HERE (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34230)
I would have helped you if I could mate :bigcry:
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A4000_Mad wrote:
I guess the poor guy flipped his lid after getting no replies to his threads HERE (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33729) and HERE (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34230)
I would have helped you if I could mate :bigcry:
Well I don't use AREXX or IBrowse so I couldn't help the guy... :-)
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I bet rants like that will do wonders for encouraging people to help him.
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moto
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This thread brings up a lot of interesting points, some of it fits my view and some doesn't.
The Amiga is my main machine because I'm a dinosaur (grin, I guess). In the world of the current big 3 OSes, Amiga is truely unique and different. There was a recent article in one of the PC mags comparing Vista, OS X, UBuntu, and XP. It was like comparing different flavors of dry white wine. These OSes largely represent only 1 model of UI and architecture and they are merging into the same thing! (There does seem to be some original thinking in Ubuntu.) If these are not the computing world a user want to live in, what choices are left?
(Removed pointless ranting. I seem to do too much of this.)
I could abandon my Amiga in protest of the fool (Amiga Inc) in Washington, but no one would notice. I would be limiting my otions and fun and only hurting myself. And then I would have to buy it all back at inflated prices.
While I miss the excitement of people discovering the Amiga and contributing software as they did in the 80s and 90s, I'm very grateful to have computing variety.
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0amigan0 wrote:
You're just pathetic guys!
You and the so-called amiga scene today!
And, BTW, Amiga.org should be SHUT DOWN, along with amigaworld.net, amigans.net, hyperion, amiga.inc !
Who let Doomy sign up with another user name?!?
:lol:
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@0amigan0
Ohhhh dear are we having a bad day are we?
Never mind, its going to be all right, so don't worry, there there there.
No Amiga.org will not be shut down just because you say so.
You whining little man.
Now go back to bed with your bed time book, I am sure it will all be good in the end for you.
Don't worry now, its going to be Ok.
Ok every one has any one at all seen 0amigan0's dummy only he has thrown it out the pram.
Mike. :lol:
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This is an interesting thread to see the many different opinions, ideas and how other members see the Amiga community and how they see themselves fitting into one or another part of it.
For me, I first learned about the Amiga from a magazine article in Popular Electronics (or was it Popular Mechanics) around the time either just before, or right after the release of the A1000. I had been interested in getting a personal computer for a while, but had not taken any steps toward seriously buying one. When I read about the capabilities of the Amiga in contrast to what an IBM compatible PC could do at the time, I was amazed and my interest in getting a computer was tripled. Due to my financial circumstances at the time, I was forced to focus on work and my family instead of pursuing any computer interests. About a year later I changed jobs and started working with PCs and about 3 months after that I met a coworker who owned an Amiga. He worked part time, went to college and was majoring in computer science. He had spent all his money to upgrade to the newly released A2000 and also had the incredibly slow first bridgeboard (XT8086 I think at 4mHz). He brought it to work one day to show me after he found out how interested in it I was. After seeing it, I had to have one and he found me a used A1000 with a monitor, extra floppy drive and several games and programs included, or I could spend about the same amount on a new A500. I went with the A1000, and as I have said many times before on these forums, buying and learning to use my Amiga had a profound positive effect on the rest of my career and allowed me to advance much faster than my peers in a field that is not generally thought to have anything to do with computers.
The astounding hardware capabilities of the Amiga are what got me interested in the first place, but the amazing people that the Amiga brought together as a community are what keep me here. The community has shrunk greatly over the years, but for the most part the spirit and passion of those who remain is still very strong.
I see the future as a continuing development of projects like the Minimig and Clone-A to feed the retro scene and I am sorry to say that in my mind OS4.x and AROS don't seem to me to be going anywhere. My hope is that someone will take the core philosophy or spirit of what the Amiga was in its first incarnation and create something brand new and revolutionary and inspiring. Throw away all the old technologies that limit current designs and come up with something completely new and original that is not shackled by the past. No, it won't be backward compatible with the Amiga or any other system, but it will be so much better than anything currently available that it will be a "no brainer" to switch to and develop on for the future.
With that wish for the future, the Amiga community in my mind will continue as just a hobby for those that enjoy the old classic Amiga way of doing things. I love this place and will be around for a long time to come.
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DaBest wrote:
Well......I still use my Amiga. I do all my writing on Finalwriter, collect my mail, use DPaint 4 and many more things. I reacently took it to work and people we absolutly amazed of what could be done.
It could do Norton Antivirus.. ?, :-D
I mean what's the use of fast computer otherwise .. :crazy:
@amigadave: What career have been advanced by your Amiga use..?
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@freqmax,
Believe it or not, my career at the time I first acquired an Amiga was that of a Building Inspector for a City Government. As part of my job, I was required to write official "Notice & Orders" to owners of abandoned, run down properties that were a hazard to the small community I lived in. Working in the office half the time at a time when all the secretarial staff were just learning to switch from typewriters to word processors, I was constantly asked to help with problems. Because of my experience with my Amiga, I learned how computers worked and knew about directory organization, so I could help other coworkers. Later in my career, because of my computer aptitude, I was recruited to move from the field, into the office full time, which led to further promotion through plans examiner, senior plans examiner/plan check coordinator, assistant building official, chief building official and finally director of bldg & safety, from which I retired last year. From Carpenter/General Contractor to Director of Bldg. & Safety all without any college degree and in record time, and I give all the credit to my learning on that old trusty A1000 just 20 years ago. Now I am ready for my second career, so where is the next inspiring thing that will educate me to a higher level? :-D