Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: JackL on February 25, 2008, 11:55:06 AM

Title: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: JackL on February 25, 2008, 11:55:06 AM
Hello all.

I have fitted a compact flash to ide adapter inside my 600. i would like to be able to remove the CF card without opening the 600. the trapdoor has nothing in it and it might as well go there. I have found a 30cm 44 pin ide cable;

http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=11467

will this just work or is it to long?
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: Jope on February 25, 2008, 12:53:54 PM
Try it.. The CF card may not be able to drive such a long cable, though.. At least my CF stopped working at around 20cm.
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: Nlandas on February 25, 2008, 12:54:44 PM
   I can't speak with full certainty for the A600 but on my A1200 I have over 30cm of 2.5" cable. Everything is working fine with a buffered IDE controller, laptop CD and a hard drive.

I'm sorry that I can't be specific to the A600 though.

-Nyle
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: leirbag28 on February 25, 2008, 01:22:52 PM


 I have an A1200 and tried wit a cable I bought at AmigaKit, it is too long apparently and wont read the second drive attached...I guess you need a Buffered interface or perhaps more power.

I cut the cable short and will try it out soon.

Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: JackL on February 25, 2008, 01:24:18 PM
thanks for all the comments.

i have ordered the 30cm one and will try it out and let you know.
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: rkauer on February 26, 2008, 12:23:55 AM
 A tip: use tin foil around the IDE cable, and some insulation over the foil (of course) to prevent short-circuit.

 This helps a lot with long IDE cables. Shame 80 wires IDE cables are not supported by Amiga.
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: JackL on February 26, 2008, 11:34:17 AM
Quote

rkauer wrote:
 A tip: use tin foil around the IDE cable, and some insulation over the foil (of course) to prevent short-circuit.

 This helps a lot with long IDE cables. Shame 80 wires IDE cables are not supported by Amiga.


Thanks for the knowledge.

The cable arrived this morning, super fast, i will try it out tonight.
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: alexh on February 26, 2008, 11:37:34 AM
I'm too late, but you could have just bought another CF card and a PCMCIA to CF adapter to use as a "second" hard drive.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130200985417

That way there is no messy cables coming out.
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: alexh on February 26, 2008, 11:40:47 AM
Quote

rkauer wrote:
Shame 80 wires IDE cables are not supported by Amiga.

I've got 80-wire (round) IDE cables in my Amiga's.

I thought they were identical to 40-wire cables electronically speaking?
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: keropi on February 26, 2008, 11:43:44 AM
I use 80-wire round cables on my IDE-A4000 too, no probs whatsoever... I even used several 80cm 80-wire cables in A1200 towers, no probs either...
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: alexh on February 26, 2008, 12:52:26 PM
The Amiga IDE connector has an extra pin (pin 20) which it shouldn't have. This pin is supposed to be missing for keying (orientation) to prevent cables being inserted the wrong way round.

Some 80-strand cables have this pin blocked off (as all 40-pin IDE cables if they strictly followed the spec should).

In which case you have to cut the pin off the connector, unblock the hole, or use a different cable.
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: JackL on February 26, 2008, 04:54:08 PM
Quote

alexh wrote:
I'm too late, but you could have just bought another CF card and a PCMCIA to CF adapter to use as a "second" hard drive.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130200985417

That way there is no messy cables coming out.



i was under the impression that these couldn't be used as a boot drive - i thought they where only useful with 'easyADF' etc.

With the CF on the end of the cable i can remove it and plug it into a PC run UAE and write files directly to it.
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: alexh on February 26, 2008, 05:52:15 PM
Quote

JackL wrote:
i was under the impression that these couldn't be used as a boot drive

You are correct. That is why I said SECOND CF drive. You keep the primary one inside the A600 all the time and use the PCMCIA one to exchange data with the PC.

Quote

JackL wrote:
i thought they where only useful with 'easyADF' etc.

Nope, if you install CFD driver and FAT95 it appears as a regular FAT hard drive in both AmigaOS and Windows.

http://aminet.net/package/driver/media/cfd
http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/fat95

Quote

JackL wrote:
With the CF on the end of the cable i can remove it and plug it into a PC run UAE and write files directly to it.

With the CF in the PCMCIA slot (with CDF & FAT95) you can remove it, plug it into a PC and "just write files directly to it" with Windows explorer (or whatever) just as if it were another drive. No need for UAE. No unsightly IDE cables or hacked case.
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: rkauer on February 26, 2008, 06:29:20 PM
Quote

keropi wrote:
I use 80-wire round cables on my IDE-A4000 too, no probs whatsoever... I even used several 80cm 80-wire cables in A1200 towers, no probs either...


 Explaining better: some 80 wires IDE cables use "cable select" instead the "normal" straight pins. Those C-S cables must be avoided.
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: Dazxy2001 on February 26, 2008, 06:39:32 PM
Quote

alexh wrote:

I've got 80-wire (round) IDE cables in my Amiga's.

I thought they were identical to 40-wire cables electronically speaking?


Yup they are, the extra wires carry additional ground signals to help stabilise data transfer at higher speeds, but below UDMA 3 and 4 theres no benefit to using these, except the round ones look nice and help airflow.
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: Jope on February 26, 2008, 09:44:08 PM
Quote

rkauer wrote:
 Explaining better: some 80 wires IDE cables use "cable select" instead the "normal" straight pins. Those C-S cables must be avoided.

They all do, it's part of the ATA-66 (and higher) spec.

Why is this something to avoid? You don't have to use cable select unless you want to.

Especially with slow IDE like the Amiga's, the order of the devices doesn't make much difference.
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: alexh on February 27, 2008, 12:30:40 AM
Quote

rkauer wrote:
some 80 wires IDE cables use "cable select" instead the "normal" straight pins. Those C-S cables must be avoided.

AFAIK all 80 strand cables are "cable select" cables (or at least they are supposed to be).

Getting technical, pin 28 is the cable select pin. The host adapter is supposed to ground this pin; if a device sees that the pin is grounded, it becomes the master device; if it sees that pin 28 is open, the device becomes the slave device. The Grey connector on an 80-strand cable has pin 28 open (unconnected) and the black connector has pin 28 wired through to the blue connector.

The only problem I know of (which isnt really a problem) is that the Amiga motherboard's IDE connector doesn't ground pin 28 as it should. It isn't connected to anything, it's just floating open (which effectively makes everything a slave).

But it doesn't matter! Most devices have jumpers to force master/slave operation.

However if you come across a device with no such jumpers, and you feel brave you can wire pin 28 to pin 30 (which is easy as they are next to each other) on the Amiga connector and now it should now be correct in terms of the IDE spec.

Such a modification should allow you to use an Amiga with these cables and two devices with their jumpers set to CS (or no jumpers at all).
Title: Re: Maximum length of 600's IDE cable?
Post by: JackL on February 27, 2008, 11:45:13 AM
So i tried the 30cm cable last night and it works fine  :-D
- at least with a CF card on one end. It would appear not to need shielding.

I may well get the CF adapter for PCMCIA recommended by alexh.