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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: leirbag28 on February 21, 2008, 06:31:07 PM
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Alllllll Righty then!
Commodore 64 Games officially on the Wii.............what next? Amiga games? I believe so.
Check it out:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/21/c64-games-coming-to-wiis-virtual-console/
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I wonder how they'll obtain licenses.
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Why wait PS3 already does it
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I can run them fine on my PC or Amiga using an emulator.
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Hell, I own several C64's and I'm looking forward to this. Playing games in VICE or whatever just doesn't give the right "feeling", if you know what I mean. I do believe the Wii will provide just that.
C64 games was in fact the reason I bought the Wii in the first place.
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Why would you get a Wii just for C64 games? Why not save yourself £150+ and gust emulate it on a PC?
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Because of what I just said :)
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I know that some will think of this as swearing in the church but.... here it goes: Get one! You won't regret it!
The kids have one here and it's just a brilliant little machine. Sure, the 360 and PS3 are claimed to have better graphics but... the games are so much fun to play, and the graphics ain't bad.
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best still buy an Xbox for 30 quid, hack it and put ViceX on it and if you wanted a keyboard you can buy a USB cable for 3.99 and a USB keyboard for about the same price.
All in all it will cost you around 50 quid to get an Xbox playing any emulator going including the Amiga.
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skurk wrote:
Playing games in VICE or whatever just doesn't give the right "feeling", if you know what I mean. I do believe the Wii will provide just that.
What do you think runs the C64 games on the Wii? Yup thats right!
skurk wrote:
C64 games was in fact the reason I bought the Wii in the first place.
You freak. You could have got a C64 DTV for £5!
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alexh wrote:
You freak. You could have got a C64 DTV for £5!
On all other points I'd agree with you but the Wii is at least as powerful as the XBOX - minus the programmable shaders but with a much more powerful fixed function pipeline.
Gives it a teeny bit of an edge in terms of throughput compared to the XBOX plus the cpus a lil' quicker.
Andy
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alexh wrote:
What do you think runs the C64 games on the Wii? Yup thats right!
Well, d'uh. I never said the Wii runs the C64 games natively. I said the Wii has got the FEELING, which the desktop computer emulators (for example VICE, just to pick one) don't have. In my opinion. You are free to feel different.
You freak. You could have got a C64 DTV for £5!
Why, I HAVE a C64 DTV. And a real C64, and a C128. And more to come.
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This aint a big deal for me,i like retro games but you can play them on anything these days..
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skurk wrote:
Why, I HAVE a C64 DTV. And a real C64, and a C128. And more to come.
Why not stick to the real C64, for the real look and feel? :-)
That's what I do (plus a x1541 cable that is)
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I fail to be excited at the prospect of paying £3.50 for games that cost less when they were originally released.
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AJCopland wrote:
the Wii is at least as powerful as the XBOX - minus the programmable shaders but with a much more powerful fixed function pipeline. Gives it a teeny bit of an edge in terms of throughput compared to the XBOX plus the cpus a lil' quicker.
All not true. The main 730MHz PowerPC CPU is (according the games coders) less powerful than the 733MHz Celeron in the XBOX1 (at least at the API level) and the GPU has lower throughput. Add the lack of HD support (XBOX-1 will happily do 720p and at a push 1080i) and the Wii is not a true 7th gen console.
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
skurk wrote:
Why, I HAVE a C64 DTV. And a real C64, and a C128. And more to come.
Why not stick to the real C64, for the real look and feel? :-)
That's what I do (plus a x1541 cable that is)
Oh, I do that occasionally, too. C64+MMC64 does the trick most of the time.
That said, I find it easier to ask the missus to join me in a game on the Wii in the living room, instead of dragging her into the cold, dark hobby room where the rest of my stuff is located.
I love the fact that it's on a console. You can't just alt-tab and check your mail, you're "locked" there for a while - keeps you focused on the game. I don't know how many times I've finished Super Mario Bros (NES) on the Wii lately - maybe 9 or 10 times the past month. Far more than I would in any emulator on a PC anyway.
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Turambar wrote:
I fail to be excited at the prospect of paying £3.50 for games that cost less when they were originally released.
Well, with inflation factored in ... £2 - Uridium was £7.95 on cassette, or about £14 nowadays.
Turrican will do it for me. Speedball 2 as well, although I'd rather the Amiga version (and yes, I know it is out on the XBox360 alongside Sensi Soccer).
Still, might get Uridium, although I've only ever played the CPC version.
Wouldn't mind a 5-pack of Codemasters games though, c'mon Nintendo, collate those budget games into a single download. Give me Puff and Dizzy and Seymour and a couple of codies sim games for £3.50 :)
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Oh, and does anyone else think that ScummVM should be ported to the Wii so that we can point at the screen with our WiiMotes and play Monkey Island and Loom again?
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@ skurk, Yes but you don't know that untill you try it. it could be crap.
If you have a Wii then fair enough but the games are at a cost. Really, why? I'm sticking with the 360, PC and PSP for all my emulating. Soon, no doubt PS3 will be emulating soon.
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skurk wrote:
That said, I find it easier to ask the missus to join me in a game on the Wii in the living room, instead of dragging her into the cold, dark hobby room where the rest of my stuff is located.
I guess the missus has something to do with the Commodore 64 being banned to the cold and dark hobby room... :lol:
MY C=64 has a warm spot in the centre of my living room :love:
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skurk wrote:
That said, I find it easier to ask the missus to join me in a game on the Wii in the living room, instead of dragging her into the cold, dark hobby room where the rest of my stuff is located.
Lucky you. I have trouble getting the wife to play with my Wii no matter the location. :-P
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Although I practically grew up with a C64 in my lap (uh actually the VIC20) I'm not interested into it any more.
The breadbox did open my eyes on computing though and eventually I had my nickname from it (memory is lacking, could have been the A500 though) through swap parties *hides*
Fond memories though, playing Impossible Mission on it, my dad laying out it's map and won a price on doing that (uhm, a red cartidge?)
Oh and that sample in that game is a classic!
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Why not stick to the real C64, for the real look and feel?That's what I do (plus a x1541 cable that is)
Absolutely. I occasionally play a C64 game or two on my A3000, but, it just isn't the same. I don't mind having to rub the RUN/STOP key in a circle whilst pressing it REALLY hard and slamming the RESTORE key with a full swing. Heck, I've done it for two thirds of my life. :lol:
Honetsly though, I always FIX my C64s when they start doing those sorts of things.
Frodo is great. But, it's still no C64. And, I still can't get Beyond Castle Wolfenstein to work on it. (Although, that's the main reason I keep an Apple ][e around).
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Not sure what, exactly, makes a console "next-gen". I guess your view is that increased cpu horsepower and graphics resolution and graphics effects are what matters. Nintendo doesn't believe this: they believe what matters is delivering an innovative and improved game-playing experience. In that regard the ONLY next-gen console is the Wii: all I see on XBOX360 and PS3 are the same ideas and gameplay mechanics (with some subtle changes) that were available on PS1 and N64, but with more polygons, and higher resolutions . In fact some games play better on the older consoles, for example Fifa08 and ProEvo (winning eleven)are more playable and have more features on PS2 than on XBOX360 or PS3. In any case, the 480p graphics of the Wii on my 42" plasma look pretty good to me. In Australia Wii is perpetually sold out, PS3 and XBOX360 are available everywhere. nuff said.
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RUN/STOP RESTORE
At least it was a stretched 2 finger salute to me :lol: (yes I have long fingers)
Why it was an hammering movement I still don't understand, did they put touch sensitive keys in there or something? :lol:
BTW Never had a console except for the Atari 2600, after that it just doesn't make sense.
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alexh wrote:
All not true. The main 730MHz PowerPC CPU is (according the games coders) less powerful than the 733MHz Celeron in the XBOX1 (at least at the API level) and the GPU has lower throughput. Add the lack of HD support (XBOX-1 will happily do 720p and at a push 1080i) and the Wii is not a true 7th gen console.
Not sure what, exactly, makes a console "next-gen". I guess your view is that increased cpu horsepower and graphics resolution and graphics effects are what matters. Nintendo doesn't believe this: they believe what matters is delivering an innovative and improved game-playing experience. In that regard the ONLY next-gen console is the Wii: all I see on XBOX360 and PS3 are the same ideas and gameplay mechanics (with some subtle changes) that were available on PS1 and N64, but with more polygons, and higher resolutions . In fact some games play better on the older consoles, for example Fifa08 and ProEvo (winning eleven)are more playable and have more features on PS2 than on XBOX360 or PS3. In any case, the 480p graphics of the Wii on my 42" plasma look pretty good to me. In Australia Wii is perpetually sold out, PS3 and XBOX360 are available everywhere. nuff said.
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Geez! I have long fingers. I can put my thumb on C and hit E on the next octave with my pinky with no trouble. But, I can't imagine doing the RUN/STOP-RESTORE thing one handed. Although, maybe I'm remembering wrong, it's been a while.
The RESTORE hammering was a well known charactaristic of the C64. I always wondered if it was a real mechanical problem, or some sort of timing issue. Because, some times you can hit it real soft and it works just fine, other times you really have to smack it.
A guy I know keeps his C64 in the same computer desk as his main computer, an A3000 (We installed a second keyboard slide for the C64). He's had the same C64 since he was a kid. EVERY key on that thing requires ALL your weight on it, and you have to wiggle your thumb in a circle to get the key to work. Then, you end up getting two characters and have to do the same with the INSerT/DEL key (you know, the one everyone always calls Instant Delete :lol: )
He doesn't think it's unusual to have to work that hard to type something in. I remember seeing him type in huge BASIC programs in high school, he looked like he was having a siezure.
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Not sure what, exactly, makes a console "next-gen".
It has to be something drastically different than any previous game system. I'd definately say the Vee qualifies, the others simply do not.
they believe what matters is delivering an innovative and improved game-playing experience.
This is what I admire about Nintendo. I don't particularly like the Vee, but I do like what they did. I don't like all the cookie cutter games on the other systems. I still like the Intellivision, which at it's time, was kind of like the Vee. The games just had a different quality than those of any of the other systems. The 3DO was the same way. All the good 3DO games had actors and live video, not unlike a movie, mostly non-computer-generated. Something I really think was a good idea. No one else really did that.
Nintendo is building games based on game play.
Everyone else is building games based on the hardware.
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Right so let me get this right
1- People with real C64's want to get a Wii so they can pay to emulate the C64 on it.
2- People want to get the Wii to pay to download C64 games when other systems (PC,PS3,Amiga,Xbox(not the 360),Dreamcast,GP2x,Various Mobile Phones) have free emulators available and the games are free.
3- People want to pay over £100 to get the wii to pay to download C64 games when they could spend up to £50 and get a MMCReplay or some kind of cable download C64 games for free and transfer them to a real C64 (which you can get for as little as £5)
People want to be ripped off :lol:
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Erm according to which coders? I only have the xbox devkit at the moment but the previous title I worked on was multi-platform and if there's any difference it's very marginal. You're basically back to the argument "The Pentium3 is clock-for-clock better than the G3!!!!11!!!1!". No seriously the biggest problem with the Wii and the GC before it was simply the devkit and dev-tools themselves. The IDE and libs just weren't as solid or as well thought out as the XBOX by the long way. That said I know that the Wii hardware is as good as the XBOX (1) hardware because I've developed games for both!
I didn't say that the Wii was a fair 7th generation console but defining it by what resolution it can output isn't exactly fair! :lol:
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foleyjo wrote:
Right so let me get this right
1- People with real C64's want to get a Wii so they can pay to emulate the C64 on it.
Well, if you put it that way - yeah. Not to EXCLUSIVLY for C64 games, of course.
2- People want to get the Wii to pay to download C64 games when other systems (PC,PS3,Amiga,Xbox(not the 360),Dreamcast,GP2x,Various Mobile Phones) have free emulators available and the games are free.
You're basically rephrasing your first argument, but yeah, the answer is still yes.
3- People want to pay over £100 to get the wii to pay to download C64 games when they could spend up to £50 and get a MMCReplay or some kind of cable download C64 games for free and transfer them to a real C64 (which you can get for as little as £5)
That's your first argument once again, again with a little different wording. But yes, for the third time, YES.
Dude.
Do you think it's a "rip off" to play NES, SNES and N64 games on the Wii, too? Because last time I checked, all three consoles can be purchased on eBay for a price lower than the Wii.
And, hell, why bother buying them at all when you can download the games "for free" and play them on your PC. Who needs a joypad when you have your ol' faithful keyboard!
Listen, the Wii isn't *THAT* expensive. It's (from what I know) the cheapest popular console on the market at the moment. I bet most of you spend £150 on a new pair of pants or an upgraded video card for your PC, without the blink of an eye.
Playing Super Mario Bros on the Wii gives me that "console feeling" I've been looking for, since I don't own a NES. I've played SMB in PC emulators too, but as I said earlier, playing on the PC just doesn't "cut it" for me. I have no idea why.
I'm not made of money, in fact I'm on a tight budget every now and then. I'm not stupid either, I'm just a die-hard C64 fan that wants one of his favorite computers everywhere.
C64 on the Wii? Yes puh-lease!
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Argument 1 was saying if you have a c64 and want the C64 experience why pay to emulate it. Also a real C64 experience needs a keyboard datasette diskdrive and joySTICK.
2nd argument was pointing out that other systems already offer emulators.
3rd argument was that even on the C64 games can be obtained freely. someone else already pointed out that the price for downloading a game on the wii is more expensive than the game was in the first place.
Are you aware that you can get Joypads and Joysticks for your PC which can be used to play emulators. They are a lot cheaper than getting a Wii and a Wiimote
The cheapest popular console on the market at the moment is actually the PS2 which is still selling well. Theres also a version of Vice64 for the PS2.
If you want a real console experience then get the real console it will save you a lot of money.
If you want a Wii to play Wii games get a Wii. If you want a Wii just to play C64 games think is this really the best solution?
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Playing old c64 games on your tv? gotta be an xbox 1. I'd rather use my wii for other games that utilise the only real next gen thing about the wii (the control system)
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alexh wrote:
AJCopland wrote:
the Wii is at least as powerful as the XBOX - minus the programmable shaders but with a much more powerful fixed function pipeline. Gives it a teeny bit of an edge in terms of throughput compared to the XBOX plus the cpus a lil' quicker.
All not true. The main 730MHz PowerPC CPU is (according the games coders) less powerful than the 733MHz Celeron in the XBOX1 (at least at the API level) and the GPU has lower throughput. Add the lack of HD support (XBOX-1 will happily do 720p and at a push 1080i) and the Wii is not a true 7th gen console.
LOL! The GC's 487.5MHz cpu had more cache than that Celeron/P3 hybrid and executed more instructions per clock cycle and had faster memory access with less latency. Also the GC's Star Wars: Rogue Squadron 3 - Rebel Assault from Factor 5 put out 20,000,000 polygons in real time and the best Xbox game did 18,000,000 polygons. The only thing that held the GC back was RAM(24MB of 1T-SRAM and 16MB of SDRAM + 3MB EFB). Now the Wii's gpu is internally 3x faster than the GC's and the cpu is 1.5x faster than the GC's. Also the Wii has 2 separate banks of memory(64MB of GDDR2 and 24MB of 1T-SRAM, this 24MB is on the gpu die) that can be accessed by the cpu and gpu for a total of 88MB, in addition the GC/Wii gpu has 3+MB of EFB+texture cache akin the the 360's 10MB. The Xbox only had 64MB shared for everything.
So the Wii outperforms the original Xbox any way you slice it. Most developers aren't familiar with fixed-function T&L operations. The GC's cpu can apply 8 texture operations on 4 pipelines in a single pass. The Wii has 8 pipelines (2x GC's). In traditional gpu's the texture has to be sent through again to apply another operation, not on the Wii/GC..and most developers didn't take advantage of this feature. That's why you only see PS2-level graphics from most developers.
Also, the Wii has an ARM core in it's Hollywood packaging which mostly handles encryption and de/compression but probably other things too(such as downclocking the main cpu to GC levels and controlling memory access).
Finally, now that the Wii has been fully hacked for homebrew, you will see it's full potential soon enough...
Microsoft published "max" throughput numbers. Per my redline, my car can do 210Mph, however in the real world it stuggles to get over 140mph, please don't believe the hype... Just look at Sony and MS's spec reports from E3 of 2005 for the PS3 and 360...a joke. Non of those are in-game, real world numbers.
Nintedo announce the GC could do 12,000,000 mip-mapped texture polygons in realtime, meanwhile Sony says the PS2 could peak at 70,000,000 and MS claimed 120 to 130 million... Meanwhile Factor 5 pumps out 20,000,000 realtime textured polygons, the PS2 capped at 10-12 million and the Xbox at 18 million. These #'s are based on actual games, not theoretical performance capabilities.
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I should also add a note that the Wii's cpu is based on the 740CL which can be pushed to 1GHz. It's clock is programmable via software. So when needed some games may take advantage of this if more horsepower is needed.
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foleyjo wrote:
If you want a Wii just to play C64 games think is this really the best solution?
Sigh. When are you going to read my posts? I specifically said "Not to EXCLUSIVLY for C64 games, of course."
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@skurk
I admire your understandings of these simple concepts. I don't understand why we have to explain to people how much better it is to play Amiga Games on a REAL Amiga, than to play them on a PC Emulator. And how much more Proper it feels to play a Game on a TV rather than on a VGA chunky flat lifeless screen. Why its just soooo right to use a proper native Joypad or Joystick instead of a stupid Keyboard or USB (delayed reaction) crappy joystick.
If people dont understand why a Commodore64 game on a Wii....NATIVE TO TV game console is fun, versus a boring PC monitor, then hey? why don't you people get WinUAE and stop complaining PERMANENTLY about the lack of REAL Amigas.
My point is if everyone in the world had a perfectly emulated Amiga on their PC and owned every game in existence, and then suddenly in the year 2009 a new Classic A500 was released, People will flock to buy it. Cuz there is nothing like the real thing.
ALL PC emulation feels like crap. They SIMPLY don't feel right! You hear? They SIMPLY don't FEEL right.............................let me say that again...............They SIMPLY don't FEEL right.
That makes ALL the difference in the world.
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Im lucky enough to have a HD LCD TV with VGA input so even playing on my PC I have TV output rather than monitor.
Why do you think that a Wii will give you the same experience as a C64.
Also my point isnt that PC emulation is better my point is that C64 emulation (As well as other emulation) is already available for free on lots more computers and consoles which also have TV output.
So if you want a REAL Commodore experience get a Commodore.
If you want something to play emulators on the TV get into the GP2X and homebrew scene or look into emulators on other consoles.
If you dont understand why getting excited about paying for things you can get for free is strange then hey? Its your money
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@leirbag28: you took the words out of my mouth. Thanks, mate.
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leirbag28 wrote:
ALL PC emulation feels like crap. They SIMPLY don't feel right! You hear? They SIMPLY don't FEEL right.............................let me say that again...............They SIMPLY don't FEEL right.
That makes ALL the difference in the world.
Please define "Feels like crap". Thanks.
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leirbag28 wrote:
ALL PC emulation feels like crap. They SIMPLY don't feel right! You hear? They SIMPLY don't FEEL right.............................let me say that again...............They SIMPLY don't FEEL right.
The frequency of the monitor too high? :lol:
Naah, some emu's actually do feel right, like Dosbox, the (Super) Nintendo emulators, and the Megadrive emulators.
But still, I also like to have the real thing, somehow...
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foleyjo wrote:
Why do you think that a Wii will give you the same experience as a C64.
Why? I've must have said it a dozen times now: It's inexplainable. Just doesn't feel right. If I could explain it, I would've said it many posts ago.
And hey, I also said I'm not stupid. Yes of course I'm aware there are other platforms to choose from. Yes of course I'm aware that C64 can be played for free on the PC.
Look, I've written a few emulators from scratch, I know what I'm talking about.
If you dont understand why getting excited about paying for things you can get for free is strange then hey? Its your money
Yeah, but *somehow* it seems to be your problem...
Anyway, this is like talking about religion, it cannot be proved either way. I don't bother discussing this any further.
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So you didnt answer my question and you didnt really understand.
You cant get the C64 experience on the Wii because you dont have the right peripherals. All you can do is enjoy the games that they allow you to play. Theres thousands of games for the C64 and so far you can play most of them on PS3 PS2 Amiga GP2X Dreamcast and XBox through your TV with a joystick. and Keyboard(GP2x not inc.)
Or you can play what is it 2 on the Wii.
Same with most 8 and 16 bit emulators.
Look I have most computers that I have emulators for and none of the games feel right except on that computer. All an emulator is for me is a way to save time setting things up. Which is why the GP2X is my emulating machine. So I know what Im talking about :lol:
I have no problem with what you spend your money on I just have a problem with you telling me the Wii is the best way to get the C64 experience and dont deny you said it. :lol:
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@foleyjo
In defense of skurk, Im sure he is thinking what I am thinking.........that the C=64 experience will just be better on the Wii compared to Computers and other consoles.............
Wanna know why? Because of the Fact that it is official, the execution of the games will be more seemless and FEEL official. Less of a headache to load if you will.
THese are things that can't be easily explained, but we know what we mean and what we are saying.
Alot of Emulators have clumsy interfaces that make the experience horrible.
Perfect example
the DIRECTOR, MEDIAPOINT, POWERPOINT, IMAGEVISION and other Multimedia Applications may have many features that beat SCALA MM400's features of the Amigas....But I gaurantee you not one of thm is fun or as fun to use as SCALA...........simply because of the way SCALA is executed. Its like a natural interface. The others are just wacked out and annoying, and those things alone turn me off to the applications.
Its the same with EMULATORS, most of them were thought up in an annoying way.....especially Amiga versions of these emulators.
When a Product is official, it seems more effort is put into them, and since Wii is a console, execution has to be as smooth as possible. But Most C=64 emulators for most machines out there were created by hackers, who are just content to get the thing running and dont care much about interface.
THis is Soooooo impportant. Presentation is everything.
I hope you get what I am saying.
I believe C=64 games will be more fun on the Wii indeed.
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foleyjo wrote:
So you didnt answer my question and you didnt really understand.
I know I said I'm done discussing this, but I guess one final post can't make it any worse.
All you can do is enjoy the games that they allow you to play.
And? Your point being? So now you're not just mocking C64 on Wii, you're actually attacking the entire Virtual Console concept! Keep in mind that the only games from NES, SNES, N64 and whatnot are games seleted by Nintendo. I guess you find that just as outrageous as well? Because if it isn't, then what the hell is the difference?
Theres thousands of games for the C64 and so far you can play most of them on PS3 PS2 Amiga GP2X Dreamcast and XBox through your TV with a joystick. and Keyboard(GP2x not inc.)
Of course I am aware there are thousands of games available for the C64. I have tons of them already. But why do you assume that I will ONLY play games on the Wii, despite the fact that I own a REAL C64, REAL C128 and run emulators on almost every platform I own? Stop drawing your own conclusions based on ridicilous assumptions. I feel you're treating me like an idiot, and I sure as hell don't appriciate it.
I have no problem with what you spend your money on I just have a problem with you telling me the Wii is the best way to get the C64 experience and dont deny you said it. :lol:
I said that *I* will probably get the best feeling playing C64 games on Wii. But I don't know that for sure yet, but I'm really looking forward to it.
If you don't believe me, see this post (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34708) - and I quote: "I said the Wii has got the FEELING, which the desktop computer emulators (for example VICE, just to pick one) don't have. In my opinion. You are free to feel different."
...and...
this post (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34708), where I said "Playing Super Mario Bros on the Wii gives me that "console feeling" I've been looking for..."
I don't know what you've been smoking, but you should stop it. It doesn't seem too good for you.
I'm through discussing this. I don't have to defend myself for my "console preferences". I'm not replying to a single more post in this thread.
And since you only seem to skim through my posts, I'll make it easy for you by repeating it once more, this time highlighted:
[size=20]I'm not replying to a single more post in this thread.[/size]
Damn it.
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leirbag28 wrote:
@foleyjo
In defense of skurk, Im sure he is thinking what I am thinking.........that the C=64 experience will just be better on the Wii compared to Computers and other consoles.............
Wanna know why? Because of the Fact that it is official, the execution of the games will be more seemless and FEEL official. Less of a headache to load if you will.
THese are things that can't be easily explained, but we know what we mean and what we are saying.
Alot of Emulators have clumsy interfaces that make the experience horrible.
Perfect example
the DIRECTOR, MEDIAPOINT, POWERPOINT, IMAGEVISION and other Multimedia Applications may have many features that beat SCALA MM400's features of the Amigas....But I gaurantee you not one of thm is fun or as fun to use as SCALA...........simply because of the way SCALA is executed. Its like a natural interface. The others are just wacked out and annoying, and those things alone turn me off to the applications.
Its the same with EMULATORS, most of them were thought up in an annoying way.....especially Amiga versions of these emulators.
When a Product is official, it seems more effort is put into them, and since Wii is a console, execution has to be as smooth as possible. But Most C=64 emulators for most machines out there were created by hackers, who are just content to get the thing running and dont care much about interface.
THis is Soooooo impportant. Presentation is everything.
I hope you get what I am saying.
I believe C=64 games will be more fun on the Wii indeed.
Gotta agree there :-)
But emulators on the pc can be perfect considering the interface. Like MAME. Preconfigured, with screenshots, it works like a treat. You even can use a joystick with it. Though it can be more nice, like, fullscreen, and less options at the fingertip (options should be seperated in another program).
What I want to say is that you won't need a gameconsole to get that feeling. Just user friendly (or patient, since every game needs to be configured) programmers :-)
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skurk wrote:
I said that *I* will probably get the best feeling playing C64 games on Wii. But I don't know that for sure yet, but I'm really looking forward to it.
" I have a C64 which is a computer which uses keyboard and joystick but will probably get the best feeling playing C64 games on Wii a console without a Keyboard".
You will get the best feeling playing the games on your real C64. Get a Wii for Wii games man.
Oh and yes I am attacking the Virtual Console scene as its an attempt by Nintendo and Microsoft to cash in on the emulation scene. Why should they make loads of money out of something that bedroom coders have been doing for years for free (or donations)
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leirbag28 wrote:
@foleyjo
When a Product is official, it seems more effort is put into them,
C'mon we all know thats not always true :lol: Thats why we have Patches!!
I think your being unfair to bedroom coders. I can name quite a few on the Gp2X scene who put a lot of effort into the emulators and then theres people who add to the frontend to make them look really good.
As for loading the games you just load an emulator and select the game and off you go.
c64 games on the Wii will be fun if you have a Wii. C64 games more fun on the Wii I dont believe. You need the keyboard and joystick. You need to type LOAD"*",8
The best C64 emulator is on the C128 :lol: .
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lou_dias wrote:
alexh wrote:
AJCopland wrote:
the Wii is at least as powerful as the XBOX - minus the programmable shaders but with a much more powerful fixed function pipeline. Gives it a teeny bit of an edge in terms of throughput compared to the XBOX plus the cpus a lil' quicker.
All not true. The main 730MHz PowerPC CPU is (according the games coders) less powerful than the 733MHz Celeron in the XBOX1 (at least at the API level) and the GPU has lower throughput. Add the lack of HD support (XBOX-1 will happily do 720p and at a push 1080i) and the Wii is not a true 7th gen console.
LOL! The GC's 487.5MHz cpu had more cache than that Celeron/P3 hybrid and executed more instructions per clock cycle and had faster memory access with less latency.
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G3 (front-end) issues instructions at a rate of 3 instructions per cycle. Gekko can support 64bit (2x32bit) SIMD instruction issue. Gekko's SIMD is closer to AMD's 64bit (2X 32bit) 3DNow non-Pro instruction set.
Pentium III (front-end) issues instructions at a rate of 3 instructions per cycle. Pentium III can support 128bit (4x32bit) SIMD instruction issue.
Also the GC's Star Wars: Rogue Squadron 3 - Rebel Assault from Factor 5 put out 20,000,000 polygons in real time and the best Xbox game did 18,000,000 polygons. The only thing that held the GC back was RAM(24MB of 1T-SRAM and 16MB of SDRAM + 3MB EFB). Now the Wii's gpu is internally 3x faster than the GC's and the cpu is 1.5x faster than the GC's. Also the Wii has 2 separate banks of memory(64MB of GDDR2 and 24MB of 1T-SRAM, this 24MB is on the gpu die) that can be accessed by the cpu and gpu for a total of 88MB, in addition the GC/Wii gpu has 3+MB of EFB+texture cache akin the the 360's 10MB. The Xbox only had 64MB shared for everything.
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Due to CISC nature, the X86 has instruction compression during bus transfers.
So the Wii outperforms the original Xbox any way you slice it. Most developers aren't familiar with fixed-function T&L operations. The GC's cpu can apply 8 texture operations on 4 pipelines in a single pass. The Wii has 8 pipelines (2x GC's). In traditional gpu's the texture has to be sent through again to apply another operation, not on the Wii/GC..and most developers didn't take advantage of this feature. That's why you only see PS2-level graphics from most developers.
Also, the Wii has an ARM core in it's Hollywood packaging which mostly handles encryption and de/compression but probably other things too(such as downclocking the main cpu to GC levels and controlling memory access).
Finally, now that the Wii has been fully hacked for homebrew, you will see it's full potential soon enough...
Microsoft published "max" throughput numbers. Per my redline, my car can do 210Mph, however in the real world it stuggles to get over 140mph, please don't believe the hype... Just look at Sony and MS's spec reports from E3 of 2005 for the PS3 and 360...a joke. Non of those are in-game, real world numbers.
Nintedo announce the GC could do 12,000,000 mip-mapped texture polygons in realtime, meanwhile Sony says the PS2 could peak at 70,000,000 and MS claimed 120 to 130 million... Meanwhile Factor 5 pumps out 20,000,000 realtime textured polygons, the PS2 capped at 10-12 million and the Xbox at 18 million. These #'s are based on actual games, not theoretical performance capabilities.
XBOX games usually comes with programmable vertex and pixel shader effects i.e. enough computation power to run Doom 3 and Farcry.
PowerPC "Gekko" CPU uses 64bit (2X 32bit )SIMD. Pentium III has 64bit (2X32bit integer) MMX SIMD(on X87 registers) and 128bit (4X 32bit integer/FP) SSE1 SIMD(on XMM registers).
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So the Wii outperforms the original Xbox any way you slice it. Most developers aren't familiar with fixed-function T&L operations.
Emm, DirectX 7 has fixed-function T&L operations.
The GC's cpu can apply 8 texture operations on 4 pipelines in a single pass. The Wii has 8 pipelines (2x GC's). In traditional gpu's the texture has to be sent through again to apply another operation, not on the Wii/GC..and most developers didn't take advantage of this feature
It slows down the GPU for other things.
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@skurk
And how much more Proper it feels to play a Game on a TV rather than on a VGA chunky flat lifeless screen
My laptop PC can connect to a display unit that supports HDMI, Composite Video/S-Video and VGA.
Atleast http://www.commodoregaming.com has a PC with a Commodore label and still run Microsoft OS(1).
1. CBM’s C64 runs Microsoft OS i.e. MS Basic. Most modern PCs runs Microsoft OS i.e. MS Windows. From the very beginning, CBM is basically a Microsoft OEM PC vendor.