Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: DoogUK on February 14, 2008, 11:04:37 PM
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Ok....i havent used ebay for a while now due to getting ripped off a couple of times....and i noticed seller fees got a lot higher.
Also when i sent one item i knew the seller recieved, he claimed that he didnt and paypal took the money from my account and gave it back without a fair resolve.
For these reasons i do not use Ebay or Paypal no more.
Does anyone else feel the same way? and do they find it disheartening as most Amiga stuff ends up on the bay.
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Few people know this but it's said eBay is the most profitable website ever in the world right now. Estimating a wopping 500%+ mark up on an average listing.
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That...i can well believe.
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i don't know what you mean by getting a no go area.
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No go meaning is it safer to not use it and buy your hardware/software elsewhere like Amibay or here and other forums.
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I dont really care for the moment becuase it hasnt happened to me.
But its always in the news etc. i find its really sad that poeple do that though and that paypal/ebay dont do any research into the "none recieved item" situations. :-o
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I think it's safer to deal directly with people you know (or know-ish as forums go), sure. I wouldn't say that any selling specific site would be any more or less safe than ebay, though. One thing about ebay and paypal, is that at least there is some kind of attempt at safety on their part.
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I read feedback closely before dealing with ebayer, I just don't look at the feedback number. Now that ebay wants to change the way feedback works, I'm not sure I'll keep doing business there. Some have talked about moving to this site... www.onlineauction.com and some other ebay alternatives.
Plaz
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that webste looks a bit cheap. you're happy to give bank details? :crazy:
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sell on ebay, where everybody goes and prices can get bid up. buy on other sites where nobody goes and prices don't get bid up. :-D
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i havent used ebay for a while now due to getting ripped off a couple of times....and i noticed seller fees got a lot higher.
Also when i sent one item i knew the seller recieved, he claimed that he didnt and paypal took the money from my account and gave it back without a fair resolve.
in more than 100 trades on two accounts I've only had two problems.
A seller advertised a 2000 keyboard in "AS IS" condition and when I got it it didn't work and after opening it saw it had obviously been under water with sediment in it.
the other time I sold a piece of equipment to someone who abused it but thankfully they had already given me good feedback as it did arrive in good shape.
seller fees are not a large percentage of sale prices and are far less then you would spend to place paid ads in papers. They are more then posting for free sites but you have no feedback or recourse in those venues. You could send funds and never see anything.
If you're suspicious about a buyer making a claim of non receipt get a signature. Read feedback and don't sell to those with problems. If you have a problem with someone block them from bidding.
Unless you meet face to face to make a sale you have the most safeguards using ebay or PP.
sell on ebay, where everybody goes and prices can get bid up. buy on other sites where nobody goes and prices don't get bid up.
that would be one way to make money.
I honestly don't see why people think the prices are so high. Very few items are even manufactured any more with the possible exception of boards by Individual Computers.
Everything sells at a fraction of it's original cost.
I wonder if those who start these threads just like to spawn distrust of these sites to try to get better deals for themselves.
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No problems here ds92570(320) 100% positive
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I do not think I would have much luck selling Here (http://www.onlineauction.com/index.php?page=search%3Asearch_advanced&word=amiga&auction_id=&category_1=&auction_type=&status=active&startBid=&endBid=&sellerName=&bidderName=&submit=Search) at Online Auctions. There is not one amiga item on their search. :crazy:
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I think eBay is still a great place to buy (and sell), well, almost anything... ok, the listing prices have gone up and retro computer stuff has gone up, but it is still unbeatable when it comes to most stuff. I have had only a few problems out of over 200 hundred transactions (the majority me as seller - 99.5% feedback) - and I think it is unrealistic to expect problems to never exist in any environment where stuff is bought and sold. Anyway, if it weren't for eBay I bet most of us wouldn't have some of the computer gear we have now, as it would have probably ended up on a rubbish dump many years ago - can you imagine the nightmare scene of Commodore desolation :-(
eBay is great because it alone probably gave birth to the whole thriving retro-computer scene (inadvertantly, I'll admit) - however, this single fact is something for which I am eternally greatful. Of course eBay has faults, and I am not sure how I feel yet about the new feedback rules coming in May, but I genuinely think that eBay want to give buyers a great deal. I think eBay is great, that's it, and yes I am a sap. :crazy:
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I've never been ripped off ( no goods ) on e-bay. I just think you don't get any better deals using it.
Buuut. You can find what you want there like no where else, a big plus there.
I use paypal all the time. No problems.
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>eBay is great because it alone probably gave birth to the whole thriving retro-computer scene (inadvertantly, I'll admit) - however, this single fact is something for which I am eternally greatful. Of course eBay has faults, and I am not sure how I feel yet about the new feedback rules coming...
Yes, ebay is great for retro/used stuff. It's more like unknowingly promoted retro/used stuff. Most of the retro atari/amiga stuff sells for <$10 and by increasing fees for low-prices items, it doesn't seem like they are into promoting retro stuff. If there's demand by the people (for retro or other stuff), people will be attracted by any sort of setup that provides for their demand. Ebay is still a great place for retro/used stuff but their decisions could be better. If they need more funds, they should have gotten their funds from higher priced items or non-retro stuff so they would factually be promoting what it's famous for. For one thing, if a person thinks ebay is going to eat up 20% of each of their $5-$10 Atari/Amiga item, they may not think it's worth the trouble especially if on top of that they have less control of the feedback.
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amiga92570 wrote:
I do not think I would have much luck selling Here (http://www.onlineauction.com/index.php?page=search%3Asearch_advanced&word=amiga&auction_id=&category_1=&auction_type=&status=active&startBid=&endBid=&sellerName=&bidderName=&submit=Search) at Online Auctions. There is not one amiga item on their search. :crazy:
And not even a single soundcard to any computer, maybe this site will "mature" by time
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DoogUK wrote:
Also when i sent one item i knew the seller recieved, he claimed that he didnt and paypal took the money from my account and gave it back without a fair resolve.
That happened to me too. Paypal never replied to any of the emails I sent them and they didnt care that the buyer didnt follow any of their procedures didnt contact me directly and in the same month got loads of negative feedback and had his ebay account suspended.
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I did find one other auction site which is pretty good..especialy for amiga games...they are very cheap on there and there are no fees.
very little hardware appears on it but i have had a couple of bits and everything went smoothly like ebay in the old days.
www.ebid.net if anyones interested.
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if all amigas were only worth the supposedly tiny amounts you can get them for on other sites most people would have tossed them in the trash long ago. you dont toss something out that you know you can get a couple hundred bucks for on ebay.
millions of people have used ebay and paypal without any problems.
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What about the new Amiga trading site Amibay? Do all of you have some aversion to trading on a dedicated retro site outside of the auction sites?
www.amibay.co.uk
www.amibay.net
www.amibay.org
Well?
WTF
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no aversion to selling at a set price.
some aversion to not having as broad exposure to sales as you can get on ebay.
..seems many listings on there are in Europe and shipping of heavier items can be problematic from the U.S.
...just makes sense to go with the biggest gorilla most of the time.
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I have some old Amiga stuff in pretty good condition I found, but didn't want to keep anymore. It includes a manual for a VicModem (well C64) in good shape, a QuantumLink manual in good shape, the first Amiga Buyer's Guide in good shape and a GrandSlam HardDrive manual in good shape. It really takes me back!!! There's more, but I wanted to see if anyone would be interested in stuff like this, and was going to post to eBay.
Amibay doesn't really seem to have a section for stuff like this.
Where would be the best place to post it? Thanks!
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Amibay would be great if it used a freeware online auction package. Auctions are superior because they give everybody a shot, not just the guy who is the first to PM somebody. If you don't get a chance to look at amibay forums for a couple days most of the good stuff gets scooped up in a day or two. Just my two cents.
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Personaly i do use Amibay and its a very good replacement for the superb and long running Amibench.
I think spending my money on there is now a far safer bet than Ebay.
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Does anybody still use comp.sys.amiga.marketplace?
It used to be DaBomb! That's where I got my first complete A4000 setup, for about $2500 if I remember right, and following that my most interesting amiga goodies like a MindEye and a Live! with Mandala.
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Amibay doesn't charge sellers fees, that has to be a bonus.
Also, once you have signed up, you can request access to something called the Recycle Bin, where items are offered for only the cost of shipping.
One guy offered a load of Amigas including a 4000 in the Recycle Bin, shipping cost from the US is under £80, you couldn't get a 4000 on Ebay for that.
Ebay just lines the trader's pockets IMHO. Amibay is monitored and policed by moderators, which is more than can be said for Ebay...
WTF
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Ebay just lines the trader's pockets IMHO. Amibay is monitored and policed by moderators, which is more than can be said for Ebay...
"policed" or not, there is no legal recourse.
giving some items away for the cost of shipping is fine...and I've sold things for a .01 because I had no use for them and someone else might.
Having said that, if you've bought something new and spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on it wouldn't you expect to be able to get some fraction of that if you sold it?
Come on...be serious...the only reason big prices aren't gotten on those other sites is because not nearly the same large numbers of people use them.
Sure you can find bargains but unless someone can afford to just throw their Amigas in a dumpster why would they give them away on a board when the can probably get $100 for a machine or monitor?
be serious...would you throw $100 away?
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@Sprocket
The proof is in the pudding, i am currently sending 2 forum users amiga items free of charge, and i myself have recieved items free lately....its called community spirit...Amiga community spirit and long may it live.
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i am currently sending 2 forum users amiga items free of charge, and i myself have recieved items free lately....its called community spirit.
of course,...like being chair of a user's group or helping organize a vendor show or giving a 600 to a friend who has a use or sending a piece of casework to someone who has a need...
all of which I've done...
doesn't mean charity extends to the several ethernet cards, monitors, etc. I've sold over the years...to folks who were very happy with their purchase, btw.
If someone has a need or shows themselves to have been an asset to the community they deserve that consideration.
Otherwise, getting some value back out of what I've invested in and maintained helps me to continue doing Amiga stuff too. ...and there are quite a few who seem to want something for nothing all the time.
If you get something for nothing do you value it? If someone can't come up with $30 plus shipping for a 2000 or $100 for an accelerator they probably should rethink their need....they may end up just sitting on it while another Amigan might actually get some use out of it.
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Sprocket,
Are you really saying that auctions don't play into the hands of traders, and that people put items on Ebay seriously expecting to get £0.01p for it?
Something for nothing is only of value to the person who receives it, don't equate value to cost as they are different.
I am all for sites like Amibay, otherwise, why would Amibench have lasted 10 years? Community spirit isn't all about fanboys, you know.....
Oh and BTW, just because you haven't been ripped off on Ebay (yet), doesn't mean that you won't and Ebay isn't all it's cracked up to be if you are scammed...
WTF
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Are you really saying that auctions don't play into the hands of traders, and that people put items on Ebay seriously expecting to get £0.01p for it?
if an item isn't worth much except to the one person who needs that item it will sell for .01. ..and I have had those happen as well as giving items away on boards too.
no value doesn't equal cost but I have no way to know who I'm dealing with and if they're just looking for freebies to resell, do I? then my charity would turn into their profit.
If I'm reading someone's posts or discussing an issue with them it can become clear if they have a real interest or not.
and throwing words like "fanboy" around just because you don't agree with someone doesn't promote community spirit.
My history in Amigadom is longer than most but I'm not interested in getting into a debate.
so if a deal goes bad for me as a seller how do I lose? I mean I only lose the sale price and shipping of the item, right? ..and you're saying I should be giving all my extra Amiga stuff away right?
thems the breaks...
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Apologies,
No offence was intended to you with my "fanboy" comment, I was referring to the fact that some Amiga communities are very insular, almost to the point of being blind to other things happening on the scene.
I have also been around the scene for 20+ years even if I haven't been here for very long, I am committed and among my hobbies is repairing Amigas, rather than breaking them to pieces to be sold off on Ebay as spares.
It was not my intention to get into a peeing contest with you about who has been around longer or who is l33ter than who, it was just to raise the perhaps painful truth that some exploit the scene, while others don't.
Is a Recycle Bin approach such a bad idea, if the other alternative is the real trashcan?
If you want to give traders cheap hardware, then Ebay is the place to be and Doomy types will bite your arms off for it. If you want it to go to dedicated sceners then places like here and Amibay are the way ahead.
That's my view anyway....
WTF
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It is more likely that traders buy their stock cheap on the lesser auction sites and local sales then sell dear on ebay.
There have been posts about large quantities of amiga gear being offered to members, such treasure troves must also be found by traders.
The lesser auction sites won't get more buyers until the buyers abandon ebay looking for bargains on the lesser sites, then prices will rise on the lesser sites.
One problem is the need to advertise these sites, until the last week or so, Ebay was the only site I knew, and I am certain that most ebayers know of NO ALTERNATIVE.
Just like there is no alternative to paypal, is there?
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@DoogUK
About two weeks ago I won a set of Sieara Cosworth front discs and calipers for £70 + £10 P&P.
The package arived within a few days but unfortunately it contained the rear set instead. I contacted the seller immediately and said what had happened.
He was in touch soon afterwards and said to send them back and he would also refund the postage costs.
On Tuesday I got and email from him saying that the correct ones had been sent out. On Wednesday he put £20 in my paypal account and thanked me for being patient. I recieved the discs on Thursday.
I am very happy with the outcome and it goes to show that there are some genuine people on there who care more about more than just the money.
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@Rob
Firstly let me congratulate you on choice of car...gotta love a cossie!
I'm not dissing ebay wholey as an overall experience, but as much as there are good experiences it only takes one or two "bad" experiences to knock you and say never again.
Your bad transaction was blessed by the seller acting as they should and correcting.
My experiences are basicaly of people blatently lying and on a few occassions items just dont work and obviously havent worked for some time.
Personaly i have chosen to not use ebay anymore due to my bad experiences.
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All I can say to you guys is go and take a look at Amibay, what have you to lose by doing that?
At least they state on there that Traders are not allowed unless they have declared their status first, I know the Admins and Mods on there carry out checks to see if traders are trying to sneak in.
It's only been open two months, what do you expect?
WTF
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@DoogUK
Firstly let me congratulate you on choice of car...gotta love a cossie!
The brakes are actually intended as an upgrade for my Escort MK6 to complement a planned increase in power.
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@Rob...you will need a serious increase of power to complement those brakes....
My car is like my amigas, old (1990), upgraded when i can afford it, reliable as sin, extremely and effectively quick when i need it to be and an absolute pleasure to be at the controls.
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WTF: first time i've heard about this AmiBay place. it's a good idea and looks pretty active. i'll be selling a load of stuff including Elbox PCI busboard, Dragon Tower, DCE BVision and DCE scan doubler soon. might throw them on AmiBay instead of evil eBay.
as for eBay, I know a lot of people have experienced nightmare scenarios but I have to say they helped me with one recent incident. I purchasd a MegaCD from some guy's eBay auction. However, he replied later saying it had "suddenly" broke and that he would no longer be selling it (the price was pretty low, so I think he just didn't want to sell at that price). He did not want to refund and made excuse after excuse for about 2 weeks as to why he couldn't refund: cold virus, grandma died, etc, the usual. :boohoo:
Anyway, I finally had enough of his games and put through a PayPal Dispute. PayPal judged the dispute in my favor and although the guy had no money (in his bank or PayPal account), PayPay covered the refund.
I'm not sure if buying through PayPal is any MORE secure than simply using a credit card. After all, you are already quite secure with payments issued using VISA cards. If you purchase from an individual/company and something goes wrong, there are a few options to get your money back, whether you use the card's Purchase Protection feature or demand a "chargeback".
So basically, if you purchase anything from a site, like AmiBay, are you really any LESS secure than if you used PayPal? Not really.
I think the idea that PayPal/eBay are a fantastically "secure" way of buying online is somewhat of an illusion, really. Plus with purchases within a tight-nit "community" like the Amiga's, honesty and TRUST are worth all of eBay's Seller Rating points. As long as everyone keeps alert and warns of any problems they experience while trading with in individual.
AmiBay could really work, I like the idea! :-)
thanks