Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: Piru on January 25, 2008, 12:39:13 PM
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So I finally got myself this Mac Mini G4 I've always wanted. G4 1.42GHz, 512MB and 80GB, CD-RW/DVD combo drive, bluetooth, airport (wlan).
Well, 512MB seemed a bit tight, and the 80GB HDD was pretty sluggish 4200RPM. So hmm, lets add 1GB DDR-stick, 160GB 5400RPM HDD, dual layer 8X DVD-RW drive and while at it, why not OC the thing, too.
Mac Mini at 1.58GHz (http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/macmini_overclock.jpg)
dnetc:
[Jan 25 12:19:06 UTC] RC5-72: using core #4 (KKS 7450).
[Jan 25 12:19:25 UTC] RC5-72: Benchmark for core #4 (KKS 7450)
0.00:00:16.14 [16,608,622 keys/sec]
[Jan 25 12:19:58 UTC] OGR-P2: using core #1 (KOGE 2.0 Hybrid).
[Jan 25 12:20:16 UTC] OGR-P2: Benchmark for core #1 (KOGE 2.0 Hybrid)
0.00:00:16.39 [37,324,508 nodes/sec]
Sweet :-)
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You didn't fancy a CoreDuo one then? :-D
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bloodline wrote:
You didn't fancy a CoreDuo one then? :-D
Nah, MorphOS isn't ported to x86 yet :-)
Nice screenshot, I have a thing för thät strängë döttëd längüägë :lol:
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You didn't fancy a CoreDuo one then?
No, not really. I already have a peecee with E6320 overclocked to 2.8GHz ;-)
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McVenco wrote:
bloodline wrote:
You didn't fancy a CoreDuo one then? :-D
Nah, MorphOS isn't ported to x86 yet :-)
Nice screenshot, I have a thing för thät strängë döttëd längüägë :lol:
I wasn't sure if Morphos ran on the Mac... hmmm... really I though it was a shame that Piru didn't get a dual core machine. All machines really should be dual core. My old Powerbook G4 (1.5Ghz) pretty much freezes up when you run an HD movie or something else similar... But a 1.5Mhz CoreDuo runs beautifully. I'm surprised Piru didn't fancy hacking around with SMP etc actually...
I've grown to love the Umlaut... though I still can't hear or pronounce ü which is very frustrating...
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I've grown to love the Umlaut... though I still can't hear or pronounce ü which is very frustrating...
Have you tried this?:
http://www.utils.ex.ac.uk/german/pronounce/pronoue.html
I believe the Finnish ü is somewhat different than the German one, but I could be wrong. I tried my hands (or is it my tongue?) at Finnish once, but I quickly gave up. I think I just don't get it.. (http://reminder.ton.tut.fi) :-)
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Piru wrote:
You didn't fancy a CoreDuo one then?
No, not really. I already have a peecee with E6320 overclocked to 2.8GHz ;-)
Ahhh, message received and understood. THe Little G4 Mini should be a lot of fun then! :-)
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There is no ü in finnish, only ä and ö (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_alphabet#The_extra_letters_.22.C3.84.22_and_.22.C3.96.22). å is needed when writing swedish, but isn't stricly speaking part of the finnish alphabet (finnish keymap have it, though).
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McVenco wrote:
I've grown to love the Umlaut... though I still can't hear or pronounce ü which is very frustrating...
Have you tried this?:
http://www.utils.ex.ac.uk/german/pronounce/pronoue.html
I have quite a few examples, but this is great, many thanks! It's just a vowel sound I can't hear I guess... I know when I need to use one or when one appears in a a word, but only because I know how to spell the word... if I hear a new word that uses it... I just can't hear it, and substitute another letter. I suspect my pronunciation of ü (-Edit- Which is somewhere between u and er) makes me sound very English :-D
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In case someone wants to attempt this overclocking thing on his/her Mac Mini G4, here's the required information:
Opening up Mac Mini G4 and accessing the motherboard:
Installing Logic Board (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-Mac-mini-PowerPC-Logic-Board/276/1)
Alternative method for opening the Mac Mini (http://web.archive.org/web/20080212142837/http://headwedge.com/wordpress/2006/11/01/mac-hack001-opening-mac-mini-wire-method/) (that's Mac Mini Intel in the doc, but it's easy enough to adjust the method)
'Memory / Optical Drive / Hard Drive Installation' video (http://eshop.macsales.com/installvideos/mac_mini_g4_mem_hd_opt/) (this helped a lot!)
To overclock upto 1.58GHz:
Overclocking Apple Mac mini (http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/macmini/)
To fix the frequency display for 1.58 GHz:
Mac mini 1.58 overclock correction (http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18180) (NOTE: This is only needed for the 1.58GHz OC!)
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So it is overclocked from 1.42GHz to 1.58GHz? Is that difficult to do on a Mac? No heating problems or such as a result?
I have zero experience with Mac, but seeing how MorphOS eventually might be released for the Mac Mini G4 I am considering getting one myself. Are they still available in stores, or is second hand the only option?
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@takemehomegrandma
So it is overclocked from 1.42GHz to 1.58GHz?
Yes.
Is that difficult to do on a Mac?
It was fairly simple. There's tons of good documentation on how to work on Mac Mini G4. The 1.42->1.5 and 1.42->1.58 overclocking only involve removing a resistor (2 for 1.5, 1 for 1.58). The resistors are really tiny (http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/macmini/macmini_removed_jumpers.jpg) though. Steady hand is a requirement. For links, see my previous post in this thread.
No heating problems or such as a result?
1.42->1.58 is just 11.26% overclock. I ran dnetc (100% CPU usage, both integer and altivec unit) for hours without any trouble. I did remove the heatsink and replace the thermal paste with better material, though.
Are they still available in stores, or is second hand the only option?
G4 models are second hand only. I paid 320 EUR for mine (mostly because I stayed within finnish auctions.. I bet they're cheaper elsewhere).
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Piru wrote:
G4 models are second hand only. I paid 320 EUR for mine (mostly because I stayed within finnish auctions.. I bet they're cheaper elsewhere).
It's about the same here in Germany. Prices might probably even increase because a whole bunch of Amiga users hope to run OS4 or MOS on them one day.
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It's about the same in Holland as well. The Moana "version" is rare though, most of them are 1,25ghz models.
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With all the stuff happening around the Mini (Morphos 2.0 on the way, the tiny hope of maybe having a legal OS 4 running on it one day), I decided to follow your example and buy one too. I guess I was really lucky, got one for only EUR 190,- this weekend. It is the silent upgrade version with 1.33 GHz, already upgraded to 1 GB RAM, in original box with manual and installation media. Looks like a fun machine for a more than fair price.
Now, where can I apply for MorphOS 2.0 beta testing? ;-)
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Isn't the 1.5GHz G4 MacMini's 64Mbyte Radeon 9200 a better gfx card than the Intel GMA 950 in the latest models?
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alexh wrote:
Isn't the 1.5GHz G4 MacMini's 64Mbyte Radeon 9200 a better gfx card than the Intel GMA 950 in the latest models?
The GMA 950 has a better performance, higher throughput etc... but lacks T&L etc... hardware... swings and roundabouts I think :-)
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No heating problems or such as a result?
Small update: I was a bit sloppy when putting the heatsink back and failed to check if the pins had locked properly. As a result the one of the 4 pins had popped up, causing the heatsink to sit unevenly, and the CPU heated up more than it normally would.
It was simple to fix though: I just reopened the case and pushed the pin thru, making sure it locked properly.
The Mac Mini does have thermal shutdown feature, that is if it overheats it will suspend the machine rather than fry the CPU.
Anyhow, if you do remove the heatsink, be sure to check the pins lock properly when you put it back.
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Piru wrote:
Anyhow, if you do remove the heatsink, be sure to check the pins lock properly when you put it back.
Will I have to do that in order to replace the hard disk? It is 5400 RPM, but only 40 GB...
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Will I have to do that in order to replace the hard disk?
No.
See HDD replacement instructions (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/Mac-Mini-PowerPC/Hard-Drive/82/8/)
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Nice guide, thanks.
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(http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/morphos-macmini2-small.jpg) (http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/morphos-macmini2.jpg)
[::dancingbanana::]
Some quick FAQ:
- It is not available for public alpha or beta testing
- It is not completed yet, so no release is imminent either
- Yes it says MOS 3.0 there, but that's just the "working title", MorphOS 2.x has priority for now
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:-o
Will it be released next year or are we talking about a 2010+ release date? :-)
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so, Piru, are you gonna try to make OS4 run on it?
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@orange
No. I'm not interested in OS4.
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orange wrote:
so, Piru, are you gonna try to make OS4 run on it?
Isn't this like asking someone from the OS4 dev team if they're going to make MorphOS run on the MacMini? It's pretty obvious that Piru is involved in MOS development and has little interest in OS4.
Hans
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@little
Will it be released next year or are we talking about a 2010+ release date?
It's always hard to predict these things, but I guess it's safe to say it won't be released before it's deemed ready. :-)
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If wish MOS could then also run on my old PowerMac 9500 - just recently souped up with a G4/1000.
BTW: anyone got a spare 5V DIMM? 64 MB is a little too tight for OS X... ;-)
Can't even get NetBSD to run on this old beast - darn Open Firmware 1.0.5! :madashell:
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It's always hard to predict these things, but I guess it's safe to say it won't be released before it's deemed ready.
Bummer, I bet many people in this board would pay for a copy of it to beta test in different macmini models (and maybe other g4 models ;-)
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Piru: When it is released, do you think it will work on G4 notebooks? (you can just tell me yes or no, the usual answer ;) ).
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@Piru,
Is it likely that MorphOS2.x, or 3.x will only run on one exact version of the PPC Mac Mini, or will there be more work done to allow it to run on other PPC Mac models?
If there is good progress on MorphOS for the PPC Mac (Mini, or otherwise), it would make more sense for me to just get an Efika now to buy and run MorphOS2.0, and thereby support the MorphOS team, and look for a compatible PPC Mac instead of the Peg2 G4/1GHz, I was recently looking for.
I have a G4/1GHz PowerBook that I could easily repair if MorphOS3.0 becomes available and runs on it.
Any advice you can give me without breaking your NDA? :-D
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@cv643d
Piru: When it is released, do you think it will work on G4 notebooks? (you can just tell me yes or no, the usual answer ;]])
For now I can only confirm Mini. Even the Mini port is not ready.
@amigadave
Is it likely that MorphOS2.x, or 3.x will only run on one exact version of the PPC Mac Mini, or will there be more work done to allow it to run on other PPC Mac models?
It ATM runs on all PPC Mac Minis. Other models depend on the team motivation. Also, some models are clearly out (anything with other than Radeon gfxcard for example, or anything too ancient to be worth considering).
Any advice you can give me without breaking your NDA?
No NDAs to break, I just don't want to promise something we can't deliver.
So in short, if you want MOS right now, get a Pegasos or EFIKA.
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Piru wrote:
[::dancingbanana::]
Some quick FAQ:
- It is not available for public alpha or beta testing
- It is not completed yet, so no release is imminent either
- Yes it says MOS 3.0 there, but that's just the "working title", MorphOS 2.x has priority for now
Son of a...... :-o
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Great now that you have a Mac Mini, we can get MOS on it sooner rather than later I assume :)
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Just got my Mac Mini 1,5GHz :D
Playing around with OSX now and I find it to be horribly slow and un responsive :( Maybe I got spoiled with PEG II and MOS 2.0 even Efika with MOS 2.0 seems faster tough it will crash in a minute once you start it. Atleast OSX seems stable :) But there is no way I would use this OS in daily use unless I can somehow make it more responsive. OSX seems quite easy to use and configure compared to Windows I'm using this for the first time and it seems like I have everything already up and running.
Thank you Piru for the numerous Mac Mini links in this thread :)
EDIT: Hmm I have to take my words back a bit :) I got rid of the Symantec AV that was installed in the system and now everything seems much quicker and I kind of like the system.
@Piru how does that Leopard feel? Is it a whorty upgrade over 10.4.11?
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MorphOS have the amiga feelling that os4 havent, lest wait to the release, sooner plz :)
OSX is not like the "experience" that apple fans speak, i find it too simple and no applications from users just from big corps, by the way...
Im lokking for a boot selector and just find some for intel macs, anyone knows some for ppc?. Thanks.
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@Painkiller
how does that Leopard feel? Is it a whorty upgrade over 10.4.11?
Tiger is a bit faster, but it's ok. It really likes to gobble memory so you'd better have the max 1GB for Leopard.
@Kickstart
Im lokking for a boot selector and just find some for intel macs, anyone knows some for ppc?
http://yaboot.ozlabs.org/
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Very cool. But I'm still waiting for some PS3 action. Or Xbox 360 or Wii. Even a Gamecube port would be better than continuing to fiddle with other out of date and overpriced hardware. ;-)
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Is there any way to run this Mos on iBook G4? This is almost MacMini... ;).
Serious question, I have one around :).
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I'm with you Trev, MorphOS or Amiga OS 4.1 would rock on PS3 and it just might help Sony's platform. I do love my PS3.
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Pyromania wrote:
I'm with you Trev, MorphOS or Amiga OS 4.1 would rock on PS3 and it just might help Sony's platform. I do love my PS3.
"just might help Sony's platform." ... well that made me smile :-)
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@Pyromania
To be honest, I've been holding off on a PS3 purchase. Apart from my choice to go with HD-DVD (d'oh!), the PS3 has too much tinker potential. I have too many toys as it is. ;-)
@Sparky
Despite Sony's win with Blu-Ray, the PS2 still holds plenty of value for most users, the Xbox 360 is a solid system (software-wise), and neither can topple the Wii. While I don't think MorphOS or OS4 will do much to boost PS3 sales, I would love to see either or both operating systems available for a platform that will be around for at least another five years. The Cell processor also provides plenty of room for growth. (It's not like any Amiga will ever be pushing polygons like a state of the art x86/x64 PC.)
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@Piru
How is the performance of the Mac Mini @ 1.58GHz vs Pegasos 2 G4 1.0GHz running MorphOS 2.0? Is it noticably better?
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@HammerD
How is the performance of the Mac Mini @ 1.58GHz vs Pegasos 2 G4 1.0GHz running MorphOS 2.0? Is it noticably better?
CPU performance is obviously 1.58 times the Peg2 G4. The CPUs are identical (except for revision), and thus the CPU clock directly denotes the performance.
Memory performance is noticeably better on the Mac Mini. CPU VMEM access is slower (than my radeon 8500LE), however. Gfxcard is slower (naturally), too, but not too bad. The original Apple HDD is pretty shuggish 4200RPM, but it can be upgraded to 5400 or 7200 RPM, modern drive.
The Mini has some other drawbacks, too, such as having no PCI expandability. On the other hand it has USB2, and with a HUB you can connect a lot of devices. On the other hand the Mini is very handy for travel (at least if the destination has a monitor and keyboard).
In short: Yes, noticeably faster, especially in CPU and memory bound tasks.
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About the GFX chip isn't it actually faster to use when accessing from the system and not using the VRAM as Mac Mini has a real AGP 4x port where as PEG II has some sort of PCI to AGP hack to my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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@Painkiller
About the GFX chip isn't it actually faster to use when accessing from the system and not using the VRAM as Mac Mini has a real AGP 4x port where as PEG II has some sort of PCI to AGP hack to my understanding.
I haven't done any benchmarking on that, but even if it would be faster, it is still quite irrelevant since 9200 doesn't have that fast GPU.
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This looks Quite interesting.
I see the imac g5(als) uses a radeon 9600 chipset (not the plain g5 imac)
would morph '3' simply _run_ on a g5(it doesnt have to take advantage of it ie 64 bit)with little modifycation?
Piru I know You are not promising anything,
My Mobile lifestyle Doesn't suit a Desktop,(Yes even a Mini)And I do Favor 4.0/4.1, But if you Make MOS Run on a G4 Powerbook 1.67ghz, Rad Mobility 9700
I Will Purchase a copy . Then You may welcome me to the Blue Camp
:lol: ;-)
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@barana24
would morph '3' simply _run_ on a g5(it doesnt have to take advantage of it ie 64 bit)with little modifycation?
I don't think the CPU is that much of a problem, but the actual HW differences, missing drivers and so on. MorphOS itself is certainly limited to 32bit for any forseeable future, so running that on 64bit CPU would seem a bit wasteful, too.
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One of the problems I find with OS X Tiger is that the pointer feels like its stuck in honey and then suddenly it gets free of it when you move a bit faster. Doesn't feel like I'm in control of it :( Maybe I'll try Leopard to see if it is any better.
Oh BTW any recomendations on UAE for Mac Mini G4? Just want to check out the speed to see what it will propably be with MOS once released.
@Piru is the Mac Mini port of MOS going to support the Airport? If so will the focus be on that and once ready then support wired controller?
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@Painkiller
Not every Mini has an Airport.
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Damn good point :)