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Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Development => Topic started by: morduk on January 22, 2008, 05:47:02 PM

Title: os 4.0
Post by: morduk on January 22, 2008, 05:47:02 PM
Just received my copy of Amiga 4.0.  Starting reading the directions for installation and alas, the directions talk about PPC boards which I do not have.  I run my amiga on a 4000 tower with only extra memory added to the system.  Does this mean I can not run OS 4.0? :-?
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: Framiga on January 22, 2008, 05:48:32 PM
nope :-(

Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: SamuraiCrow on January 22, 2008, 05:52:33 PM
OS 4 Classic requires a Cyberstorm PPC for the A3000/A4000, Blizzard PPC for the A1200.  It won't work on a 68000 series processor.
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: orange on January 22, 2008, 06:08:39 PM
just upgrade system with CSPPC
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: Christian Johansson on January 22, 2008, 06:20:02 PM
Can't believe you could have missed that. Well shouldn't be to hard to sell a copy of os4 i guess.
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: CLS2086 on January 22, 2008, 06:22:46 PM
Hard to believe ! It's written and talk everywhere ! :rtfm:
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: Bazzaq on January 22, 2008, 06:28:55 PM
Give us the detailed specs of your system, always helps.
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: Everblue on January 22, 2008, 06:29:17 PM
Quote

orange wrote:
just upgrade system with CSPPC


Yeah JUST get one! As if they grow on trees  :-o
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: jorkany on January 22, 2008, 06:31:51 PM
morduk,

Who did you buy it from?
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: A6000 on January 22, 2008, 07:04:59 PM
O.K, What is needed now, is for someone to write a PPC emulator for the 680X0 processor, it may not be fast, but it could be usable.
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: morduk on January 22, 2008, 07:05:55 PM
Got it from Amigakit
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: JurassicCamper on January 22, 2008, 07:10:32 PM
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=764

Quote

AmigaOS 4.0* is now available for your Amiga 1200 equipped with BlizzardPPC and Amiga 3000(T) or 4000(T) equipped with CyberstormPPC expansion boards!


Matthew is a great guy he might offer you a refund, no harm in asking.
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: bloodline on January 22, 2008, 07:29:02 PM
Quote

A6000 wrote:
O.K, What is needed now, is for someone to write a PPC emulator for the 680X0 processor, it may not be fast, but it could be usable.


It would be in no way usable... unless you like slideshows of desktops...
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: Flashlab on January 22, 2008, 07:33:23 PM
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

A6000 wrote:
O.K, What is needed now, is for someone to write a PPC emulator for the 680X0 processor, it may not be fast, but it could be usable.


It would be in no way usable... unless you like slideshows of desktops...


I doubt that was a serious post...
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: A6000 on January 22, 2008, 08:18:54 PM
Quote

Flashlab wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

A6000 wrote:
O.K, What is needed now, is for someone to write a PPC emulator for the 680X0 processor, it may not be fast, but it could be usable.


It would be in no way usable... unless you like slideshows of desktops...


I doubt that was a serious post...


It started out as a joke, but then I thought, why not?

A CISC processor does more work per instruction than a RISC processor so a JIT emulator could interpret several PPC instructions as one or two 68k instructions.
Also the PPC runs at only 200/400mhz which is not necessarily that much faster than a 68060 running at 66-100mhz.
If OS4 takes off, then the classic fans must either buy a PPC or emulate one.

It would be no good for games, but other future programs which do not depend on speed could be used, maybe?.
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: jj on January 22, 2008, 08:22:03 PM
Are u mad, a 060 could not emualte a ppc at anywhere near a useable level

otherwise we wouldnt bother with pcc
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: A6000 on January 22, 2008, 08:27:23 PM
There are many people who are quite happy with the speed of their 7mhz 68000, there could be people with 060's who would be happy to emulate a slow PPC if it means their classic amiga can run new software written for the PPC.
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: orange on January 22, 2008, 08:33:54 PM
well, I got ppc and no OS4.. and be willing to buy it if price is right  ;-)
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: Flashlab on January 22, 2008, 08:45:02 PM
Let me ask you this; do you enjoy running Win95 in an Amiga emulator like PCTask and find that usefull? Well, I don't.

I don't think any real 68k CPU could even come close to that performance when emulating a PPC.
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: bloodline on January 22, 2008, 08:45:16 PM
Quote

A6000 wrote:
There are many people who are quite happy with the speed of their 7mhz 68000, there could be people with 060's who would be happy to emulate a slow PPC if it means their classic amiga can run new software written for the PPC.


You don't realised that the speed of an old RISC architecture like the PPC comes from taking advantage of Hardware features and limiting the ISA to avoid the limitations of the hardware.

There is no way one could run a PPC emulator on a 68k machine at any speed greater than one frame every 5 seconds... I dread to think how slow the MMU emulation would be...
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: Piru on January 22, 2008, 08:50:51 PM
@A6000
Quote
A CISC processor does more work per instruction than a RISC processor so a JIT emulator could interpret several PPC instructions as one or two 68k instructions.

That'd work for only for VERY specific instruction sequences that are very unlikely to occur anyway. So this idea doesn't work, sorry.

Quote
Also the PPC runs at only 200/400mhz which is not necessarily that much faster than a 68060 running at 66-100mhz.

It is much faster. PPC does 3-5 instructions per clock cycle. 060 doesn't even do 2 in average, and some instructions take huge amount of cycles.
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: morduk on January 22, 2008, 08:53:39 PM
Total cost for me was 114 US dollars.  Anyone want the softawre make an offer.  Never used.  Thinking about getting one of those PPC boards if .........................
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: AmigaMance on January 22, 2008, 08:54:23 PM
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: A6000 on January 22, 2008, 08:57:20 PM
OK, I accept that it is absolutely impossible to emulate a PPC on a 68060, so if no company makes new PPC accelerators then we must resign ourselves to eventually having no choice but to run amiga anywhere, if it will run on classic amiga's.
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: Flashlab on January 22, 2008, 09:00:46 PM
I highly doubt that Amiga Inc. will ever make a piece of software that would run on any classic Amiga. What the heck, you could just remove "classic" from that last sentence and it would also be true, sadly...
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: maffoo on January 22, 2008, 09:04:34 PM
Is it possible in theory to emulate PPC on 68k? Obviously not practical on real hardware, but as Intel processor get faster it could be interesting to run OS4 through emulation on UAE :-) (This assumes that UAE never gets any sort of BPPC/CSPPC emulation, which would be much better.)
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: Piru on January 22, 2008, 09:07:24 PM
Of course it is possible. It's just very slow. Because it's so slow, no-one is likely going to bother with it.

x86 has several ppc emulators: qemu, pearpc, softpear, sheepshaver.
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: Flashlab on January 22, 2008, 09:08:28 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to just have the PPC emulated directly? Oh, wait a minute that already exists; PearPC (http://pearpc.sourceforge.net/)!
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: A6000 on January 22, 2008, 11:09:50 PM
If we want to run OS4 on a pc we would use pearpc or similar, would the pc also need to run windows or linux?
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: A1260 on January 22, 2008, 11:25:55 PM
@morduk

have you been living under a rock and never read anything on the nett that is amiga os4 related, before you did buy it?...

 :-o
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: bloodline on January 22, 2008, 11:37:34 PM
Quote

A6000 wrote:
If we want to run OS4 on a pc we would use pearpc or similar, would the pc also need to run windows or linux?


Yes... or MacOS X...

PearPC is rather quick, though obviously pointless, on my MacBook Pro...
Title: Re: os 4.0
Post by: actung_bab on January 23, 2008, 01:59:00 AM
l got one thing to pay for first
but pm me on here and l buy of you for what u paid

patrick