Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Everblue on January 15, 2008, 09:53:48 PM
-
I was really looking forward to get a minimig, but now that I got the total its going to cost me (from Acube), I am really in shock. There is a big jump from the advertised €138 to €226 (this is after VAT and uber expensive shipping charges).
I think I will now keep a hold on my money and wait for Clone-A instead. :-(
Anyone else thinks the price is a bit over the top?
-
Where did you get that final price from?
-
From Acube themselves. And that price does not even include a PSU.
-
Nope.
-
And I already own a nice A1200 gaming setup.
-
No, for that price I'd expect a complete Minimig, as in, supplied with PSU, casing, cables.
-
Yes, it's a bit over the top. I think €99 shipped would be fair. Maybe not realistic, but fair. (Especially since I already own a metric ton of C= stuff, heh)
I don't want to sound like a pessimist, I really respect Acube for pulling this through, and I love the Minimig and will defend it day and night. But €220+ for a "toy".. well...
I'll rather continue soldering my Minimig board, even if it takes me a few months extra... Let's just hope it works when I'm done :-)
-
Well to be completely honest - if the minimig was 100% perfect, I'd put away my real amiga and use the minimig instead - use a normal PC monitor, and free up loads of deskspace... but as it is, no thanks. Hence, I look forward for clone-a.
I would have giving minimig a chance at a decent price, but not at €220+ !
-
They are making a killing at that price, at least 100% profit.
Either they are not making very many (sub 50) or they are getting greedy.
I didnt think a 1.5Mbyte OCS A500 was worth €138, it is absolutely not worth €226
-
I'd pay up to €150 for a populated and soldered Minimig without anything extra since it's basically an fpga dev board with a 68k processor as a bonus. Which means you can in theory run all sorts of oldskool computers with it. That to me is the added value.
-
Krusher wrote:
It's basically an fpga dev board [snip] Which means you can in theory run all sorts of oldskool computers with it.
I know you say "in theory" but so far I am not aware of any available HDL having been "ported" to the MiniMig platform.
The Atari ST VHDL should have been "easy" to get running, but I've not seen anyone even talking about it.
Perhaps the lack of boards in the hands of "those that can" has meant a slow process?
-
alexh wrote:
I know you say "in theory" but name 1 that has been "ported" to the MiniMig platform? ...
Give it time, once Acube starts shipping I'm shure all sorts of things appear. Beeing a software guru doesn't mean you have the capabilities to build or solder your own hardware, and most important, a lot of people just don't have the skills to build a Minimig themselves.
-
No.
I will not return to Amiga until prices are much more reasonable. Having already forked out £800 for an A1 that was faulty from the start I am not prepared to make the same mistake again.
-
nope!
-
Unfortunally the shipping cost to Malta is very high, you can check UPS price list...
We may provvide a less expensive service via traditional (and less secure) mail service instead of express courier, at Euro 9.15
These are the official prices:
Minimig + SD card 1 Gb = Euro 138,00
Minimig + SD card 1 Gb + PSU = Euro 149,00
Italian VAT is 20% (if applicable)
Ciao
Max Tretene, ACube Systems Srl
-
pff expensive
the first batch of builded minimigs where going for 350 euro on ebay
-
Guys, I priced this item many different configs...
If I may specualte here...They are probably making $100 at best on these units. They are trying to run a business not a charity.
I've tried to assemble/ order the parts and a board. It's Mad to sit there and solder all those bits.
I would have to order 100 or more units at a clip to match/ beat the pricing.
Mini-Mig ain't everyones cup o tea but I don't see any other companies ponying up hardware.
-
thats what i ment
i remember me paying around 600eu for a a500 in 1986
i saved cash and sold my beloved c128 with turbotrans II for it
i still regret that :(
-
Should I just go ahead with my run and sell them on EBAY then?
Hmmm...
Like the BravoTV cable network slogan says. "Watch what happens..."
-
m3x wrote:
Unfortunally the shipping cost to Malta is very high, you can check UPS price list...
We may provvide a less expensive service via traditional (and less secure) mail service instead of express courier, at Euro 9.15
These are the official prices:
Minimig + SD card 1 Gb = Euro 138,00
Minimig + SD card 1 Gb + PSU = Euro 149,00
Italian VAT is 20% (if applicable)
Ciao
Max Tretene, ACube Systems Srl
I'm from Europe, can you give me the estimate on the total price? Including VAT, although Europe has not VAT thingy, but including shipping to Holland?
Also, why is this a mail to order?
-
@Krusher
Prices are as follows:
Minimig: 138 euros + Italian VAT = 165.60 euros
Shipment to the Netherlands: 23.41 euros
Total: 189.01 euros
http://www.amigascene.nl/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=1625#forumpost1625
;-)
-
Nope...
I have too many hobbies to set aside that much loot for another toy. Even if it is a very cool toy.
my $0.02
-
The one chip MSX, a MSX implementation on a FPGA cost 229 euro
http://www.bazix.nl/press07112006.html
So the price is the same as other old computers FPGA implementations
-
That is a bit pricey for hardware which still is not 100% compatible, realistically I would pay 50 quid but no more for something that doesn`t come with a psu or any other peripherals.
-
For €226 I could probably get a brand new A1200 from AmigaKit.
-
You'd have to really be into anything even vaguely Amiga to see the Minimig as more than a novelty. I'm sure there are still at least a few folks who are -that- into the scene, but they're thinning out fast, as time passes.
Realistically, the Minimig is a good DIY project for the home electronics hobbyist, where half the fun is the building and tweaking. For everyone else, its an A500 clone with reduced compatibility and some new fetures.
Personally, I bet it would be fun for about the first week or two, then end up in the corner with my C64dtv and MAME box.
-
Nope!
For 226 euros i could buy a mint 1200, accelerate it and add a few more extras.
-
Guys Guys Guys! Am I to believe what I am reading here!? How long have we waited for this hardware??? How long do we expect the legacy stuff to last??
Does anyone believe in their right mind that there is a true business case for developing MiniMigs - other than to loyally serve an enthusiastic, but nevertheless minute community of followers?
These units are a BARGAIN! Think about it - the guys at ACube seem to have a legitimate business to pay for. Staff. Overheads. Their own Salaries. Kids. Mortgages. Yet despite all of this, they have decided to develop this wonderful, but entirely useless piece of hardware, just so we can keep playing Lemmings for another decade or so! Does anybody really think they are making a "killing" (as somebody put it)?? So they sell, say 200 boards - tops - and make 100 euros profit each. That makes them 20000 euros. Not even half a reasonable salary for 1 such professional who has the capacity to pull off such a project. Hell, they would probably just meet their annual rent demands with that kind of income.
We need to SUPPORT this company. If you can't afford one, then that’s fair enough. Don't attack the pricing though!! You will only put off potential buyers - and we all know what that will mean. Another busted Amiga company. To be honest, not only should we be snapping this kit up at full price, but we should also be donating ANY spare cash to Amiga causes!! People rabbit on about "waiting for prices to fall...." yet too few actually cough up to support those few brave folks who stick their necks out for us. Do you think you will see this thing in Curry’s? Or BestBuy? How are prices expected to fall, IF NOBODY BUYS THE KIT IN THE FIRST PLACE?? Does nobody here except Comm00 (sorry did I spell that right?) understand business? This is a tiny little company - not an international electronics behemoth! Get REAL people - or we will always have nothing – except for something to complain about. Plus, those who swear by soldering their own units – if you enjoy it great. However, if you clock up the time it spent you to do it (plus the cost of replacing any fried hardware) – do you not think that time was worth at least $100? You were probably charging yourself $5 per hour. Tops. I would like to think we are a community with a cause, not just a bunch of negatives.
Yes, I will be purchasing MY MiniMig - at the end of the month ;-) (As I am a touch into my overdraft!)
-
Well I'd love to buy one, but between the advertised €138 and what I will have to pay there is a big, big difference. I will probably end up buying it anyway, as support, for the novelty and because the A1200 in my signature takes a lot of deskspace. But first I need to know if it will work ok with any TFT PC monitor...
-
Everblue wrote:
....I will probably end up buying it anyway, as support, for the novelty.....
Good Man!
Thats the attitude. If we all think like Everblue, we will have more and better projects coming along - more often!
-
I would buy it. I will buy it. :-)
-
As for the prices -
In the UK if we sell overseas we don't charge the VAT. It looks like the sellers are in Italy, so I guess the law's the same.
So it would be 138 Euros + shipping, and then you'd pay the import tax at your end.
If they could send it as a gift say, then the import tax is often overlooked.
Last time I checked up the minimig was emulating an A500, if it could do a 1200 I'd probably buy one...
Brunty
-
madsjm wrote:
I would buy it. I will buy it. :-)
Everybody - I apologise! The people who will contribute to the sucess of the Amiga platform, had simply not posted anything on this thread yet. It's easy to be put off by negativity - but good going madsjm!
Rise above everybody! Think OUTSIDE the box and to the future. We need business! And good business at that (and lots of it) ;-)
-
ollygd wrote:
...
Rise above everybody! Think OUTSIDE the box and to the future. We need business! And good business at that (and lots of it) ;-)
No I will not unless the price is right, which is not. €150 including shipping would be fair enough. Ok, I know, this is a first batch, limited in quantity, but most people have limited resources on money to justify a hobby, which it is. A hobby.
-
Krusher wrote:
ollygd wrote:
...
Rise above everybody! Think OUTSIDE the box and to the future. We need business! And good business at that (and lots of it) ;-)
No I will not unless the price is right, which is not. €150 including shipping would be fair enough. Ok, I know, this is a first batch, limited in quantity, but most people have limited resources on money to justify a hobby, which it is. A hobby.
Yes I am aware the Amiga is just a hobby, but that is irrelevant. Would you have everybody pay 226 euros and help ACube to thrive, or would you have everybody pay 150, and run them into the ground? As I said, if you can't afford one, then thats fair enough. Build one - seriously. However, it doesn't change the fact that 226 for a MiniMig is still a reasonable price, given the fact the the success of ACube is so very important.
If we want ACube to survive, then we have to pay. But perhaps we don't? It would seem that some feel this way. It would also seem that people want it cheaper because *they* cant afford one - or are being cheap. If that is true, then to be honest - I do understand. However, at least SUPPORT ACube and potential buyers with words of encouragement. If people buy, then prices WILL come down. Think of the whole picture! This project needs to live. Consider how few will be sold. ACube staff have to eat! (They certainly wont be moving to Barbados any time soon)
-
I want to buy one and support Acube, but I have to eat too you know :lol: And while I applaud Acube for taking the risc of getting on the Minimig bandwagon, it's not if they where forced to it. I guess I'm not an early adaptor. We'll see what's going to happen. Exiting days for Amigans? YES!! :-D
-
Krusher wrote:
I want to buy one and support Acube, but I have to eat too you know :lol: And while I applaud Acube for taking the risc of getting on the Minimig bandwagon, it's not if they where forced to it. I guess I'm not an early adaptor. We'll see what's going to happen. Exiting days for Amigans? YES!! :-D
Heheheh! I know - for all my feelings on this - I'm not rolling in cash myself. I just really belive in getting the people who can buy - to buy. Then prices will come down, and new projects come along. I personally belive a real drive and a unreservedly positive community attitude will see us through. Unfortunately, given our rather insignificant position, nothing less will do I fear.
-
Krusher wrote:
.....And while I applaud Acube for taking the risc of getting on the Minimig bandwagon, it's not if they where forced to it. ...
I just wanted to comment on this though as I may have read your previous post too quickly. I do understand your point of view here, however, if we do want new, professionally made kit, then somebody *had* to do it. If we don't - then fine, I'm sure ACube will vanish into the Amiga history archives along with everything else. No harm done - but if we *do*, then we MUST support them, as they are the only ones doing it. If someone else starts up - then they should get equal share also.
If we hold ACube in contempt for charging too much, then what hope does any other setup have? No they didn't have to do it. I don't even know the guys but I want them to be fed and well so they can develop and sell more Amiga kit! I don't want them to be worrying about their bottom line. I want them to worry about getting the next gadget out by their next deadline. Selfish, I know, but true.
-
Even with a fully populated mini with a decent casing I still wouldn't pay that. £120 topps maybe.
-
Oh don't get me wrong, I still have faith in the Amiga market, and I suspect that Acube would sell their stock of Minimig's in no time, don't forget it's also an fpga developerish board, so people who like to get started with that will also be interested. Myself, I can't justify paying too much on it as it still is a project in the works. If it was 100% compatible? Maybe. if it was AGA compatible? Then a firm yes.
-
tokyoracer wrote:
Even with a fully populated mini with a decent casing I still wouldn't pay that. £120 topps maybe.
Well then our hopes of new Amiga hardware are probably already dead - if feelings like this constitute the majority of the community. Sorry to be so blunt, but I'll call this now. I would, however, dearly love to be proved wrong.
-
I keep reading that Clone-A (whenever and if its out) will be considerably cheaper.
Any idea why?
-
i see no need for it.
if i want to play amiga stuff, i've got my pc. if i want to use uae on the move, i use my laptop. if i want to do it whilst on the move to a greater extent, i use my PSP (which is cheaper than a minimig and has more features :/)
-
I still want to build i myself, so price isnt all
-
EUR 226 for an amiga 500+??? Stupidity never ends.
I bought my a500 less than this price, but it was more than 15 years ago. And it is an original commodore.
Maybe if it was the recently demoed Natami or sg like this.
But for a plain a500+, it is robbery.
-
From that viewpoint, I understand your reasoning. However, if they only made enough profit to keep their business from hitting the deck, would you still say it was robbery?
-
This is interesting.
A lot of people have been posting on the "contacted china, and a batch of minimigs" threads that they'd pay "anyhting" for populated board.
Also the builders indicated that it might be well over €100 for a board, maybe even €200.
I see that many had the expectations to a pro company that they would be able to have bigger runs, lower costs and a more pro finish (casing and psu=. But realistically, they still have their overhead, required warranties (local consumer laws etc) which statistically runs the price up.
I'm going to buy one. Not on this months salary, I've gotten myself another amiga kit. But this year I'd get one. And I'll get it from ACube.
It's steap. But it's at the same time fair. It's the cost of wanting something only 500 people in the world wants, but cant be bothered to build one self.
And as for the DIY aspect of the Minimig. Yes, it's mostly about that. But now I get to build a case, wont I?
It's a nice starter project for one who has only broken things by taking a soldering iron to them :)
-
Bless you, arnljot
-
alexh wrote:
They are making a killing at that price, at least 100% profit.
Either they are not making very many (sub 50) or they are getting greedy.
I didnt think a 1.5Mbyte OCS A500 was worth €138, it is absolutely not worth €226
Bloody hell! If they are only making 100% profit then that's less than the usual retail mark-up.
And don't forget that what you call "profit" also has to pay for service and support (including dead boards).
Fine if you don't like the price, but don't slag off a business for trying to keep it's books out of the red.
-
@ollygd:
For me it's overpriced. And excuse me, but i will not support acube or else just cause. Don't care if they got 100% profit or more. It's their business. If they show me a product that offer sg. I will surely buy it.(for exable a minimig which has got aga and can be expand with a simple ppc cpu etc.)
And one more thing, minimig is a good project, a very good and it is only just the work of one man. But for me it is not worth a penny in its current state.
-
@derringer3
Well don't buy it then. My argument is that there is a price for manufacturing a product that only 500 people are going to buy. Whether it's overpriced for you personally is irrelevant. It costs money to develop and the price you pay now is that price.
If you care as to whether the Amiga platform has any future, then you should care very much about a fledgling manufacturer's bottom line, as we, as a community do not have the luxury of a saturated market and billion-dollar manufacturing plants. Quite possibly though, you do not! And that is fine. Why should you? It's just a hobby after all.
I really feel that even those who choose not to buy now because of this "high price" quoted by ACube, should not discourage others from doing so. There are plently of people who I am sure will buy, and they will be the ones to drive the costs down.
If you were smart, you would not slag off this offering, but encourage. Then buy the next model. If you were smart.
-
Darrin wrote:
Bloody hell! If they are only making 100% profit then that's less than the usual retail mark-up.
As someone who works in the hardware retail industry, I wish we made more than 100% profit.
50% is good but it is as low as 17% on set-top-boxes.
Darrin wrote:
And don't forget that what you call "profit" also has to pay for service and support (including dead boards).
Touche. I hadn't really thought of that, or insurance, or inventory storage etc.
Darrin wrote:
Fine if you don't like the price, but don't slag off a business for trying to keep it's books out of the red.
I understand, I do. But this is not an ordinary retail venture, Acube do not have any NRE costs to recover. The r&d and even the PCB design was all done for them. All they are doing is effectively offering manufacturing services.
Unfortunately in the post Commodore Amiga era there has always been a temptation for unscrupulous developers to take advantage of the users due to the almost "monopoly" that exists.
-
.....Unfortunately in the post Commodore Amiga era there has always been a temptation for unscrupulous developers to take advantage of the users due to the almost "monopoly" that exists.....
This is v true. However, we still need an enthusiastic market to encourage other suppliers to set-up, or we will truly be stuck with a monopoly. As of now - we have no choice - but one thing is for sure - we cannot all keep sitting on the fence as we have for the last 20 years!
-
I guess you are right. Especially if ACube have said they are considering producing future products should this be a success.
-
Fransexy_ wrote:
The one chip MSX, a MSX implementation on a FPGA cost 229 euro
http://www.bazix.nl/press07112006.html
So the price is the same as other old computers FPGA implementations
You forget one thing: Despite their propaganda all over the internets, Bazix does not sell 1ChipMSX'es. There isn't even a 'European 1ChipMSX' in sight. They might actually deliver on their promises from the past few years in a few more months though, but I think most people who really want one already do - I got mine via a fellow MSX user who went to Japan. Damage: 200 euro (incl shipping).
On Topic:
I like the idea of a A500 in FPGA - the small form factor, the ability to load ADF's from SD card, the 'HOW COOL IS THIS?!'-factor, etc. I might buy one in the future, but not for 226 euro...
-
alexh wrote:
As someone who works in the hardware retail industry, I wish we made more than 100% profit.
Well, it does vary on the types of products. I used to own and run two businesses and I'll admit that my margins on electronics were lower than other items. Clothes were typically the best, while most items I stocked were marked up x2.2.
50% is good but it is as low as 17% on set-top-boxes.
Of course, it also depends on the market size. I assume that you expected to sell more then a handful of those set-top boxes. ;-)
Also, you say you were "retail". There's a difference between the mark-up a manufacturer charges and the mark-up a retailer charges. In this case, ACube are both manufacturer and retailer. Also, as they intend to send boards to other companies for sale, they have to maintain a high price in order for the other companies to be able to make a profit on their sales.
So, let's say that ACube really only want to make $50 profit off each board, but the other companies who also want to market the board want to make an additional $25 then ACube themselves have to sell the board at $75 profit whether they want to or not.
Touche. I hadn't really thought of that, or insurance, or inventory storage etc.
Exactly, and it all mounts up. I often reminded griping customers that I started each month in the red thanks to rent, electricity, telephone, advertising, staff wages, etc.
I understand, I do. But this is not an ordinary retail venture, Acube do not have any NRE costs to recover. The r&d and even the PCB design was all done for them. All they are doing is effectively offering manufacturing services.
True, but they're also risking the cash in doing a production run and that's cash that could be making interest if placed in a savings account or cash that may have been borrowed why generates additional interest that has to be paid back.
At the moment, the true market size is an unknown. Perhaps if the successfully sell this batch then they will be in a position to more agressively price the next bath.
Unfortunately in the post Commodore Amiga era there has always been a temptation for unscrupulous developers to take advantage of the users due to the almost "monopoly" that exists.
The Amiga has never been a cheap hobby. :-)
The only way around this is to ecourage the manufacturers and retails we have to stay in the market and then hopefully attract new ones. As long as we live mostly off the scraps that eBay provice then new development is going to dwindle.
-
I understand the sentiments; regarding support for small developers/producers, and agree, mostly.
But, the Minimig really is a niche product, as such it's tethered to a very limited audience. It was never intended to be a "real" product.
Any viable business would not base its growth on a niche product. So, even if they sell 0 units, if they're a worthwhile/smart venture it wont "sink" them.
Instead of Minimig in it's present form, what's needed is a "real" retail consumer product with more potential, one that appeals to a wider audience, attracting non-community members and grows the market.
Its silly to expect a tiny niche market to generate business growth, especially one as depleted as the Amiga community. Nearly all the businesses involved with the community are making the same mistake.
Grow the market, then grow the business.
Unfortunately, I think the market has shrunk beyond the point where it can be revived in any future-viable way.
So it's an academic argument really. :-(