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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Jose on July 22, 2003, 12:36:18 AM

Title: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: Jose on July 22, 2003, 12:36:18 AM
Been thinking of giving Linux a try. I've used RedHat some years ago, but not much.
Wich one of the following versions would you advise, and what are a ad/disadvantages of each one.
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: Tomas on July 22, 2003, 12:38:03 AM
Debian! I love the apt-get function of debian... so much better than redhat packet manager...
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: on July 22, 2003, 01:07:03 AM
Quote

Jose wrote:
Been thinking of giving Linux a try. I've used RedHat some years ago, but not much.
Wich one of the following versions would you advise, and what are a ad/disadvantages of each one.


I've tried most, and Debian comes out on top.

Are you going to be running Linux on x86 or A1/Peg?

If x86, then try Morphix. http://www.morphix.org

It runs from CD, autodetects all your hardware, and can easily be installed to hard disk.  It's also Debian based, so when you want to upgrade it just type 'apt-get update;apt-get upgrade' et voila! you have the latest version of everything you already have installed.

Can't get much easier than that.  Use Synaptic for a gui version of apt-get,with an easy to use search facility for new software to install.

Whatever you do, don't use any RPM based distro.  You'll really get to hate Linux after a while, and it's not the fault of Linux per se, but the fault of RPM.
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: Jose on July 22, 2003, 01:25:59 AM
Hey:) Gonna use X86. I'm tired of only having WinBlows in my Athlon...
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: dslcc on July 22, 2003, 01:33:33 AM
I used to think that Mandrake was my favorite, but then I started using Debian on my Pegasos and I'm getting to like it more all the time.  :-(
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: Jose on July 22, 2003, 01:47:59 AM
Ok, Debian is winning.
Any more votes?
Some people prefer Debian cause it's completely free, but I'm talkin bout the product only, hope you didn't took that into account.
Thx for replies keep 'em coming
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: thing_from_space on July 22, 2003, 02:40:24 AM
I was going to suggest Knoppix (http://www.knoppix.org) which is what Morphix is based off of. The great thing about Knoppix and Morphix is that you don't need to commit a partition to install Linux. Your hard drive is untouched as everything runs off the CD. It's a great way to get your feet wet if you're just starting out with Linux.

Once you're comfortable with the basics and are willing to at least dual-boot, I would suggest Gentoo (http://www.gentoo.org). Not only does it have a great package management system that rivals Debian (http://www.debian.org)'s APT, but you can completely customize it to your heart's content. The only drawback is that everything is built on the fly from source tarballs, which means if you have a slow system big packages can take days. On the other hand, there's nothing more satisfying than a wildly tweaked-out and hacked kernel.

Debian still has a place in my servers. There's nothing more rock-solid than the Debian stable tree.

Unless you're looking for a business desktop, I'd stay away from RedHat and even Mandrake. Installation is easy enough for any Linux newbie, but the end result is lacking for any Amigan and the RPM package management system (even Mandrake's URPMI) can leave you frustrated.
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: Jose on July 22, 2003, 03:53:56 AM
Downloading Debian this very moment  :-D
I know you only need the first CD but the dowload is HUGE! Even usging Jigdo.
This will keep my dial-up connection busy for a while  :-)
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: on July 22, 2003, 09:07:53 AM
Quote

Jose wrote:
Downloading Debian this very moment  :-D
I know you only need the first CD but the dowload is HUGE! Even usging Jigdo.
This will keep my dial-up connection busy for a while  :-)


Download the Morphix Mini-ISO. It's only 200MB, and has everything youneed to start with.  You can always apt-get anything else you need later on. GNOME etc.  btw KDE is disgusting,it's just a cheap windows clone.  Hardly Amiga like. Use XFCE4 for a more responsive system.
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: jr_bAz on July 22, 2003, 09:54:36 AM
Hi,

Have you think about give BSD a try? I start with GNU/Linux but after some distros (SuSE, Red Hat and Debian) I use FreeBSD. If you like the apt-get funtion you'll love the ports of FreeBSD. More info here, FreeBSD home page (http://www.freebsd.org)
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: MrZammler on July 22, 2003, 12:05:58 PM
Debian has a lot of old software in it's stable release.

I think the best all-around distro at this moment is Gentoo. Excellent package manager and very fast (being a LFS-style distro).
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: bloodline on July 22, 2003, 01:43:13 PM
I'll put a good word in for SuSE!!! I've been with that for a while and it makes a very nice transition from Wimblows to limbucks.  :-P
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: Rodney on July 22, 2003, 02:02:07 PM
Debian is very very good.

Debian is the largest used non commercial distro in the world. What that means is, Debian is a community project and is the lagest of its kinda.

I've used RH and compared to that, Debian comes out in front by a long shot. I've also tried BSD and OpenBSD was great, but im liking debian a lot.

Although if your not familiar with linux debian (as i've read many times) is refered to as an advanced linux users machine. Althoug i dont consider myself advanced, although im prolly more equiped then the average user. But i love it. Find it easy to use. Easy to find programs, you dont have to fiddler around with dependancies and i have total faith in the debian package system, unlike the RH one where i never really trusted it removed everything. I love that about debian. It feels as if i have control over my system.

I guess thats what the maintainers of debian where doing. Debian is produced by the community for the community. Where as projects such as RH are produced to make money. They dont neccessarily focus on the aspects of the system which are more important like packaging (their packaging system is damn poor compared to debians) and dependancies...

Debian maintainers prolly impliment what would make their lifes a lot easier, in effect, making our lifes alot easier too :)

i love deiban! and because of it, i love linux!
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: on July 22, 2003, 05:42:06 PM
Quote
Although if your not familiar with linux debian (as i've read many times) is refered to as an advanced linux users machine.


Thats FUD put out by the big distro boys.

My mother has Morphix on her PC as she was sick off Windows 98 crashing all the time.

She even uses Synaptic to update her system every week.

She's 51 and is completely computer illiterate.  She doesn't understand the difference between Windows and Linux, she just thinks I've played about and made her computer not crash anymore.
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: Cyberus on July 22, 2003, 05:54:19 PM
I was still waiting for a friend to download one of the Mandrake CDs for me, but these sound like a good idea...
So morphix or knoppix?

Cheers,
Cyberus
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: holbromf on July 22, 2003, 06:03:18 PM
Hi,
      I have used linux since October02 (i.e. I was pretty faithfull to my amiga forsome  fourteen years from 88).
 Linux Format (remember Amiga Format) has Mandrake 9p1 on June03 mag and I have upgraded this on Mandrake 8p2  (Linux Format May02) and am pretty happy with it.  We get a pretty comprehensive development kit from KDE and Qt in C++ which is my area of interest but there is much much more to play with.
                                                         Cheers    Mike

holbromf@hotmail.com

                                               
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: DethKnight on July 22, 2003, 06:03:48 PM
Quote
t runs from CD, autodetects all your hardware, and can easily be installed to hard disk. It's also Debian based, so when you want to upgrade it just type 'apt-get update;apt-get upgrade' et voila! you have the latest version of everything you already have installed.


this also applies to JAMD linux , which I *replaced* my morphix with, havent regretted it. (JAMD is not debian based)

JAMD was actually able to install to my UDMA hard-disk (/dev/hde)

Quote
Can't get much easier than that. Use Synaptic for a gui version of apt-get,with an easy to use search facility for new software to install.

......that also applies for JAMD linux

JAMD is RPM-based , but *I* still use (./configure make install) build from source baabieeeee

JAMD = distro designed for the nieghbor to installl


Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: thing_from_space on July 22, 2003, 06:08:32 PM
Quote
So morphix or knoppix?


I'd have to go with Knoppix. Everything on one CD. Morphix looks pretty cool being modular and all, but it's a serious departure from the simplicity of Knoppix.

Another "live" CD that hasn't been mentioned yet is Gentoo. Though not as refined as Knoppix, they do offer live CDs of UT2003 (demo) and America's Army. Hell, a little tweaking and maybe a UAE version can be done.

Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: thing_from_space on July 22, 2003, 06:10:35 PM
By the way, a good lowdown of ALL the linux distros can be found at Distro Watch (http://www.distrowatch.com).
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: thing_from_space on July 22, 2003, 06:24:46 PM
Quote

MrZammler wrote:
Debian has a lot of old software in it's stable release.


Actually, Debian "Stable" is a more of a reference distro than an end-user gaming platform. It is, however, perfect when stability is essential like in file, web, or mail  servers. I've had Debian stable running for almost a year straight with not even a slightest hint of a crash or hiccup.

The "Unstable" tree is probably a little more stable than the name might suggest. I'd even say it's a little more stable than many of the odd distros i've tried. It does have quite a bit of up-to-date packages and it's perfectly suitable for the home desktop.

"Testing" is the middle road between "Stable" and "Unstable". There's nothing really exciting in it since it's the  testing platform for packages coming out of unstable for the next Stable release.
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: on July 22, 2003, 07:13:56 PM
Quote

thing_from_space wrote:
Quote
So morphix or knoppix?


I'd have to go with Knoppix. Everything on one CD. Morphix looks pretty cool being modular and all, but it's a serious departure from the simplicity of Knoppix.


Morphix couldn't be simpler.  Just download the 200MB mini-iso (Light GUI), and install to HD.  Then apt-get anything that you want afterwards.  Knoppix gives you the choice of KDE or nothing.

I don't see the point in KDE at all.  If you want to use a Windows clone, why not just use windows and add CygWin for the UNIX layer?  You get the best of both worlds then.

If you want a UNIX clone, then use something like XFCE4/WindowMaker on top of Debian Linux/FreeBSD5.1. As an amiga user, you also feel a lot more at home with this kind of setup too.
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: Tomas on July 22, 2003, 07:41:02 PM
Quote
Morphix couldn't be simpler. Just download the 200MB mini-iso (Light GUI), and install to HD. Then apt-get anything that you want afterwards. Knoppix gives you the choice of KDE or nothing.

Yes, this is true if you have some sort of broadband that is... But i think he was on modem, so would take ages to do it that way...
Quote
I don't see the point in KDE at all. If you want to use a Windows clone, why not just use windows and add CygWin for the UNIX layer? You get the best of both worlds then.

What is wrong with KDE? KDE looks awesome, much better than XP with any skins on it... Its not that kde copied windows, it was windows that copied kde... just look at XP, they "stole" a few features from kde even then..
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: jack on July 22, 2003, 07:50:49 PM
Quote
Debian! I love the apt-get function of debian... so much better than redhat packet manager...


Don't forget that there's apt-get for RH too (acts like wrapper for rpm command, works very like the  Debian's one, although on my A1 it's smoother than apt-get on RH9 when it comes to broken installs/dependancies).

But there's another advantage of debian: packages are configured on the fly when installed. IMHO, rpm-based distros lack this feature.

Jack.
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: thing_from_space on July 23, 2003, 04:06:12 PM
Quote

mdma wrote:
Knoppix gives you the choice of KDE or nothing.


This is incorrect. If you read the manual/README, you'll see the boot parameters allow you to choose between a number of window managers.

Quote

mdma wrote:
I don't see the point in KDE at all.  If you want to use a Windows clone, why not just use windows and add CygWin for the UNIX layer?  You get the best of both worlds then.


You've been bashing Windows for way too long. Take a breather and stop finding negatives in the world. If a WM "borrows" from the GUI of the world's dominating OS, then so be it. There's actually some merit to the way Windows looks and feels.

KDE is actually a well designed and solid desktop. Just because it "looks" like Windows doesn't mean you should immediately dismiss it.

Quote

mdma wrote:
If you want a UNIX clone, then use something like XFCE4/WindowMaker on top of Debian Linux/FreeBSD5.1. As an amiga user, you also feel a lot more at home with this kind of setup too.


Neither of these would be a good experiance for a first time Linux user. Too much of it depends on heavy shell use and editing .config files. KDE and Gnome are both excellent as novice desktops.
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: on July 23, 2003, 11:33:05 PM
Quote
You've been bashing Windows for way too long. Take a breather and stop finding negatives in the world.


And I've also been developing on Windows for way too long. :-P

IMHO Windows is superior to KDE.
AmigaOS is superior to Windows.
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: Gojirax on August 16, 2004, 11:53:03 PM
I downloaded all 6 CD ISO's from http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/torrents/3.0_r2/i386/ and I'm going to try it out on a spare Gateway P3-500 Tower I have in my garage.

Is the distribution I linked there pretty complete?

What can I expect to do with it? (I'm a linux newbie, I installed Redhat 6 once and played with it for a week.)

Do "Linux" applications work across the board? I mean.. if someone makes a Web Browser for RedHat, will it run on Debian etc?

Thanks,
Jack
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: adolescent on August 17, 2004, 12:35:42 AM
SuSE user here.  I was a die hard Slackware then Redhat user for some 7 years but recently switched from a dual boot Redhat/XP Pro installation to a SuSE/Wine setup.  SuSE is very well thought out and nicely setup.  I still have to run Redhat stuff at work, but SuSE is a nicer desktop.

Apt-get is no better than any of the other online package managers.  It can have the same drawbacks of dependency hell as RPM.  Both are decent systems and make things a lot easier than the standard configure, make, install process.
Title: Re: Debian / YDL/ or Suse????
Post by: jjans on August 17, 2004, 01:22:08 AM
I use SUZE as well (version 8.1) It was very easy to install, but my only beef was that my version is no longer supported (tech support)after paying for it- last I heard they were are up to V9.1. Not a biggie though as plenty of online groups provide help for most distrubutions anyways.

The only other thing that irratated my about SUZE (and other pakages for that matter) was the unabilty fo me to enable 3D acceleration with my ATI Radeon 7000 (PCI).

My first experience with Linux was with an old Caldera distribution included with a 'Linux for Dummies' book. It was very easy to install with my older AMD 133, and in fact has extended the usefulness of the old beast. I doubt it would work on todays' top end machines straight 'out of the box' but an older system it would be ideal for.