Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: motorollin on January 01, 2008, 08:44:54 PM
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I'm trying to create an LHA backup of my machine. I've got an SMB share mounted and working fine, but when I start creating the archive the whole machine crashes a few megs in to creating it. I've got StackAttack running in startup-sequence, and the shell script (launched from the dock) which runs SMBFS has a command at the beginning to increase the stack by 20,000. Is there anything else I can do to improve the stability of SMBFS? Alternatively, is there a more stable way to mount a volume on a remote machine?
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moto
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Use a stack of 100,000. 20,000 is a joke for Unix programs.
I'd rather create the archives on the Amiga and then use FTP to transfer them to a storage server. SMB is not a good choice when working with big files.
Also I'd avaoid to create one big archive by all means. No matter which program you use, there is always the chance that an archive gets corrupted and then all files are lost. I'd rather create smaller topic-related archives, for example one for music files, one for graphics files, one for text files, one for program sources, one for key files, one for settings, etc.
Do not let archives grow bigger than 10 or 20 MB.
Bye,
Thomas
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I wonder why most users think increasing stack is some kind of magical cure to all crashing programs. There are so many other possible causes... smbfs may just break for a completely different reason (it could also be the underlying tcp stack, especially if it's miami).
About the magical "let's increase stack" reflex, it's partly the fault of quick'n'dirty ports (some are even commercial) authors who don't set the stack themselves (there was stackswap for os3.x, there's a "stack cookie" in os4, there's __stack global var and/or ppcstackswap in morphos, so no excuse).
User really shouldn't have to know how much stack a random program needs.
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@Thomas
Thanks for your suggestions. I will bear them in mind when making my backup.
@Fab12
Low stack is a well known cause of instabilities in SMBFS which is why I stated that I had increased the stack.
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moto
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Thomas wrote:
I'd rather create the archives on the Amiga and then use FTP to transfer them to a storage server. SMB is not a good choice when working with big files.
The problem is that I'm having issues with my SFS partitions which is why I'm backing up and re-formatting. Because of the issues with the partitions I don't want to create the archive on that partition, but rather I want to create them somewhere else to avoid them becoming corrupt on the SFS partition. That is why I wanted to use SMB. Any alternative suggestions would be welcome. E.g. is FTPMount a good choice for doing this?
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moto
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I have no problems reading/writing gigabytes of data thru smbfs.
I have stack set to 32768.
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Thanks Piru. Will try increasing the stack. BTW do you just put a stack command before the SMBFS command?
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moto
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@Piru
Have you tried reading and writing to a Windows Vista share? I can' t get it to work.
I can read the directory and list the files, but I cannot copy or write a file. XP works ok. I've tried adjusting the security on Vista but that didn't work.
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BTW do you just put a stack command before the SMBFS command?
No, I use STACK option of the MorphOS run command (which is basically based on my earlier run44 (http://aminet.net/package/util/sys/run44) work).
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@HammerD
Have you tried reading and writing to a Windows Vista share?
No. The share is on linux boxen.
Sounds like m$ did the usual trick and changed the protocol. It likely won't work unless if someone updates smbfs.
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personally i use FTP (the faster) or AmigaExplorer between AmigaOS4/MOS for PowerUP and winxp home.
ATC on Amiga and XLight FTP server on pc
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Piru wrote:
BTW do you just put a stack command before the SMBFS command?
No, I use STACK option of the MorphOS run command (which is basically based on my earlier run44 (http://aminet.net/package/util/sys/run44) work).
Would putting "stack 200000" before the SMBFS command work just as well?
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moto
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Well, IMO playing with stack command is slightly stupid because the stacksize is remembered. So if you for example put it to a script, everything executed after this script will use 200000 byte stack, too.
Unless of course you do something like:
stack 200000
whatever
stack 4096
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HammerD wrote:
@Piru
Have you tried reading and writing to a Windows Vista share? I can' t get it to work.
I can read the directory and list the files, but I cannot copy or write a file. XP works ok. I've tried adjusting the security on Vista but that didn't work.
Vista uses a newer version of the SMB protocol. The old protocol can be reenabled in local security policies, AFAIK.
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@LoadWB
The old protocol can be reenabled in local security policies, AFAIK.
I bet HammerD would love to know how exactly you can do that.
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@Piru
I already tried that and it didn't work.
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@LoadWB
If you change this it still doesn't work.
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@LoadWB
This is specifically what I have it set to and it doesn't work...I didn't try ALL the options yet. Which one do you recommend?
(http://www.hd-zone.com/smb.jpg)
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i'm not a Samba expert but if you can see the shares you have already passed the authentication step ... or am i wrong?
The page i posted you on MZ says:
LM and NTLM - use NTLMV2 session security if negotiated
here (http://www.builderau.com.au/blogs/codemonkeybusiness/viewblogpost.htm?p=339270746)
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Getting back to the original topic briefly, increasing the stack to 200,000 allowed the archiving to get further, but it still hung about 5 megs in. I tried FTPMount as an alternative way of mounting a remote server as a volume, but LHA couldn't add to the archive even though it created it :-?
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moto
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are you using Stackattack2?
C:SetPatch SKIPROMUPDATES "scsi.device" QUIET
C:StackAttack
etc, etc
C:StackAttack AUTO
C:LoadWB
EndCLI >NIL:
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Yes I am using StackAttack2. I have the line C:StackAttack just after Setpatch, but I don't have the "C:StackAttack AUTO" just before LoadWB. Is that important?
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moto
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it seems yes ... at least, i have it there since the first installation
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Ok, I'll add it, try again, and report back.
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moto
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BTW should I remove the Stack command from my SMBFS script and allow StackAttack to do its job, or leave the Stack command there?
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moto
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moto, the only time i tryed Samba/SMBFS (for 2 days before giving up... slow ... bugged as hell, was under MOS for PowerUP)
Since then i use AExplorer and/or FTP
sorry but i have no idea :-)
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This probably ain't the same problem I had with smbfs, but here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16665) is that old thread. Problem I had was caused by different locale settings (date/time -type, language) between my Amiga and PC. So in my case raising stack was not the solution eventhough it was the obvious one (using stackattack2 should be enough).
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@Framiga
Does AExplorer allow you to mount a remote device as a volume? I need to do this so I can create the file there on the fly (not create it on a local volume and then copy it).
@quenthal
Thanks for the tip, though my Locale setting is already set to English. Also, I don't have any problems actually connecting to the SMB share.
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moto
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mhh not on the Amiga.
The Amiga side act as a server.
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I see. I'm starting to think it would be much easier to get another hard drive, format it as FAT, connect it to the Amiga, create the backup, then connect it to my Mac and copy the archives off :roll:
Surely there's an easier way!
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moto
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i know a lot of users are using SMBFS, so don't coun't that much on my bad experience.
There are some different archives around also IIRC.
Let me check.
nada ... SMBFS 1.66 is the only one for 68k i have.
Others are for MOS
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ops ... just found onto my disk, SMBFS 1.40 and 1.63
If you want to give a try, contact me privately (my email is in my profile)
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Email sent :-)
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moto
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Framiga kindly sent me SMBFS versions 1.40, 1.59 and 1.63. I was currently using 1.66. Unfortunately every version did the same thing.
I did notice that at least twice it froze on the same file. The entire archive was created successfully in RAM so it's not the file itself. I think maybe it's more to do with the size of the file, or the amount of data written to the SMB share.
StackAttack is installed properly, with both lines in S-S.
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moto
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i think that what your trying to do, is a little bit demanding for SMBFS (i'm only guessing here)
A thing is read or write through SMBFS, another thing is read&archive on the fly.
Sorry but i'm out of ideas! Good luck!
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I think you're right! Though I would love to hear from anyone who has been able to create large archives over SMBFS (under AmigaOS, not MOS).
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moto
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Does anyone know how reliable USB drives are on the Amiga when creating large files on the fly? I'm thinking of getting a Subway and using a USB hard disk for my backup.
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moto
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tried today SMBFS (1.66 OS4 native) under AmigaOS4.
It works as aspected ... even tryed to archive a dir (5.5 MB) with target the mounted pc share.
How big is the file that crashes the lha thing?
Going to try under AmigaOS3.9
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I can't remember which file it hung on so I can't check the size. Though it did get past that file a couple of times. I am not surprised a 5.5MB directory worked across SMB. I am trying to archive 46MB of data (and if I can get it working there will be another 2GB).
Please let me know how you get on under 3.9, and if possible, could you try a bigger directory?
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moto
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I wouldn't recommend using USB for anything important!
Countless times it would save file with one byte corrupt on PC, not just on flash disks but HDDs too.
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Thanks orange. IDE compact flash card might be the only option then!
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moto
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first here my AmiTCP settings
PRIORITY = 5
MBUF_CONF Initial = 2
MBUF_CONF Chunk = 64
MBUF_CONF ClChunk = 4
MBUF_CONF MaxMem = 2048
MBUF_CONF ClusterSize = 2048
;LOG Count = 4
;LOG Len = 128
;LOG Filter = 7
LOG FilterCons = 7
LOG FilterFile = 7
DebugSana = no
DebugIP = no
Gateway = no
IPSendRedirects = no
;UseNameServer = SECOND
;UseLoopBack = YES
TCP_SendSpace = 32768
TCP_RecvSpace = 32768
ConsoleName = "nil:"
LogFileName = "T:AmiTCP.log"
in AmiTCP:db/AmiTCP.config
SMBFS 1.66 (Aminet version)
tell me if your using Miami instead
and every time you change something in AmiTCP (or Miami) you have to restart the stack (not simply go offline/online)
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I'm using Genesis (OS3.9 version). Not sure if that would cause problems like this? If you can demonstrate it working correctly under AmiTCP I will try switching to it.
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moto
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Genesis is the front-end of AmiTCP, so go to Genesis Preference and change that values from there
Genesis Prefs >Options> advanced
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Ok if it works for you using that config then I will compare it with mine.
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moto
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if they are at default, they are much different! ;-)
you should have as default 8192 for both send receive buffers ... rise to 32768 both
clusters and Max mem as well ... that value are too small for modern/ish connections
These settings are different accordingly on what NIS card/driver/connection speed you have.
Thats seems ok for WAN and a 10 Mb NIC card, even if a bit high for LANs
Hence you have to experiment a bit
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I have never changed any settings in Genesis apart from the network configuration. Maybe those buffers are being exceeded which is causing the crashes :idea:
Off to check the settings...
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moto
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@ moto
This (http://aminet.net/comm/tcp/smbcn105.lha) is an alternative to SMBFS that I use. A bit of a challenge to get going, but it uses a different handler so it might dodge whatever bug in SMBFS is causing your crash.
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Thanks Matt! If I can't get it going with Framiga's AmiTCP settings I'll give that a go (and might still try it even if I can get SMBFS working, since that is a much more recent app).
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moto
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Just hung 3.7MB in, with the new settings from Framiga. Thanks anyway for taking the trouble to post your config. If nothing else, it made my connection a LOT faster, which is great :-) About to try SMBCN as suggested by Matt.
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
I'm thinking of getting a Subway and using a USB hard disk for my backup.
How about using a compactflash card with a PCMCIA adapter? I've used a 64MB card with cfd.lha and fat95 and it works very well.
I dont see any reason why it wouldn't work with a 2GB card (unless there's some limit on the PCMCIA port I don't know about).
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I would, but this is on my A4000.
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moto
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Matt, did you have problems getting SMBCN to authenticate? Using the same share and the same logon credentials, SMBCN fails to authenticate whereas SMBFS works fine :-?
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moto
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Moto, just an important tip:
Never copy files directly from Amiga partitions to a peecee. You will loose the uni* special flags (Amiga use all of them).
A good approach to solve the problem is create the lha archive in the RAMdisk and then throw it thru the network (via FTP or any solution you like).
Keep the archive sizes under 100Mb each (to avoid lack of memory) and problem solved.
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Well I give up. I don't want to trust my data to something so flakey. I was considering using an IDE to Compact Flash adapter with a FAT formatted card to store the LHA file then use a USB Compact Flash adapter to copy the file on to my Mac. The reason I put this out of my mind was that I've disabled my internal IDE interface. But I've just remembered that I've got an IDE interface on my X-Surf, so I'll use that.
Thanks anyway to everyone who has helped.
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moto
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motorollin wrote:
Matt, did you have problems getting SMBCN to authenticate? Using the same share and the same logon credentials, SMBCN fails to authenticate whereas SMBFS works fine :-?
moto
I remember it being pretty flakey - definitely depended on the phase of the moon to work correctly.
With Miami and my setup, it'll often erroneously bring up a Login/Password window if there's a general problem connecting. The PC's hostname and IP address need to be in your hosts database (not quite sure where AmiTCP/Genesis stores it, but it's there), and this is Hell if you use DHCP.
I think you can create mountlists with SMB-Handler - maybe the manual route is the way to go.
It might choke with Vista. Not sure if there's any way to deal with that. I've had it somewhat working with XP Pro, and working well with Win98.
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There's also 1.71 of smbfs, available at projects sourceforge page.
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=139532