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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: lordv on December 16, 2007, 08:24:22 PM
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I've just made such a beast! Look for photos here: http://www.amiga.org.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=12045
It autoconfigures!
Still some troubles with memory chips, i'm afraid some are slightly dead.
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In my opinion, what truly makes the whole project work is the pin-up girl on the floppy drive. ;-)
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PCMCIA Port will be dead then right?
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DJBase wrote:
PCMCIA Port will be dead then right?
Dunno :-\
Currently only 4Mb are used (4th chip is very bad). It autoconfigures at $200000-$5FFFFF address range. 8Mb would autoconfigure at $200000-$9FFFFF.
Afaik pcmcia address range is somewhere in $Exxxxx or smth...
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Trev wrote:
In my opinion, what truly makes the whole project work is the pin-up girl on the floppy drive. ;-)
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
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Where can I find this project?
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wow, total awesomeness ! :) great job dude ! I have some questions for you,
1- how many layers is the PCB ?
2- What's the chip in the PLLC socket ?
3- How the hell did you solder that SMD PLLC socket for the 68000 ? :)
4- What's the name of the chick on the floppy drive ? (you should consider naming this project after her !)
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countzero wrote:
2- What's the chip in the PLLC socket ?
Seems to be some ALTERA CPLD.
Will you consider making some kits available for sale? Great job for expanding A600s without needing an accelerator! :-)
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The project will be open-source as soon as I finish testing board/swapping memory chips. I'll release schematics, PCB, source code for CPLD as well as programming file for it.
The PCB is mere 2-layer with 0.2mm clearances/copper trace widths.
The chip is Altera EPM7064S now, while EPM7032S or Atmel ATF1502 are planned for release (1502 is the same as 7032s, but you need to converse programming file from altera format to atmel format).
SMD-PLCC sockets have holes in its bottoms http://www.isa-elektronik.de/wgr/wg017/PLCC-SMD-drw1.png , so you can solder them easily with thin enough soldering iron. But for this board, to ensure good contact, you must break off socket bottom, bend its pins and solder it with some angle to plane (board). I'll make more photos soon =) Probably it's the most odd part of project :)
Dunno about kits. The problem mostly with DRAM chips, which could be only taken from 4 or 8Mb simms (2 or 4 chips/simm).
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4- What's the name of the chick on the floppy drive ? (you should consider naming this project after her !)
Dunno :-\
This is from previous owner =)
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Great pictures! I also noticed your 72pin SIMM trapdoor expansion. May I ask if your trapdoor expansion works to 1Meg? The reason I ask is that I was considering soldering a 72pin direct to the trapdoor expansion of my a600 but I found that the 72pin SIMMS did not have the /OE line - because of this I desoldered a 4MB DRAM chip from a 72pin SIMM (the individual DRAM has the OE line) and soldered (what I thought from the schematics) MA9 on the trapdoor to only realise that the schematic diagrams for the A600 are wrong and address line 9 is not connected at the trapdoor slot (expansion connector pin 32 )so I only got 0.5MB of extra ram since the DRAM chip only has one RAS line..... so if the /OE line is not needed on the 72pin SIMM then I can solder a 72pin simm directly to the trapdoor slot expansion and wire the RA0/RA1 lines to the correct points on the SIMM... does this make sense to you or if not do you have details of your SIMM->TRAPDOOR expansion as shown in your released picture? Many thanks, Paul.
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Impressive job!!!an autoconfig ram board for A600 sounds great!!!
Just curious... Do you know if adding a 020 would add too much complexity to your design? Anyway great job!
:pint: :banana: :cheers:
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Awesome! I want one (provided that it doesn't disable my PCMCIA port)
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Sure you don't need /OE pin, you can place it to GND.
For 72pin simm, there is no exact schematics, but try looking here http://groups.google.com/group/fido7.ru.amiga/msg/c4b788490e24bfc4?dmode=source&output=gplain , unfortunately in russian only ;-) This is what I've used while soldering my extra chip MEG =)
If you already have one megabit chip soldered, consider soldering another over the top of it (not soldering /RAS pin).
PS: when joining together SIMM data bus (d0 to d16, d1 to d17 etc, needed only for 1 and 4Mb), beware of wrong SIMM routing, when not d0-d15 come from single chip but d0-d7,d16-d23 instead. The rule: both of bus signals being joined together must be from different chips.
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Just curious... Do you know if adding a 020 would add too much complexity to your design? Anyway great job!
I'm afraid it would be totally new design...
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skurk wrote:
Awesome! I want one (provided that it doesn't disable my PCMCIA port)
Please say me somebody what address space is for PCMCIA on A600, then I'll give you clear answer.
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This is excellent, A great way to boost the cute little machine. I couldn't ever build such a thing though... :-(
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@ lordv
From NDK3.1:Examples1/PCMCIA/PCMCIA.General
Because the A600/A1200 PCMCIA implementation is entirely memory mapped, the
maximum common memory address space is limited to four (4) megabytes. The
upper half of our eight (8) megabytes of 24-bit expansion space ($600000
through $9FFFFF) has been used for this purpose. Another 128K of address
space ($A00000 through $A1FFFF) is used for attribute memory, and the next
128K bytes ($A20000 through $A3FFFF) is used for I/O address space.
This means that our 24-bit CPU systems can use common memory for Execute-In-
Place purposes (SYSTEM RAM expansion, and Execute-In-Place code). The down
side is that our current implementation does not yet provide a paging register
so that addresses greater than 4MB cannot be generated. While our system
software cannot currently support XIP and bank switching well, the extended
address space will be useful if we want to support large FLASH-ROM cards. A
paging register is being considered for this purpose in the future.
The PCMCIA slot does have some limitations. It is a 16 bit interface, and
most SRAM/PSRAM cards are 200-250ns requiring GAYLE provide wait-state
generation. A specification for PCMCIA DMA was not finalized for the Release
2.0 specification. We realize that some of you will prefer to use the common
memory space for 32 bit RAM expansion in the A1200, so a credit-card disable
register is provided in GAYLE. Software modifications have been added to the
latest V39 release which automatically disables the PCMCIA interface when RAM
is present in card memory space (this does however mean that you lose use of
your PCMCIA slot).
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lordv wrote:
Please say me somebody what address space is for PCMCIA on A600, then I'll give you clear answer.
0x600000 to 0x9FFFFF
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Without another processor (<>68000) you cannot use more than 8Mb inside an A600 (68000 use a 24bit address space = 8Mb).
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rkauer wrote:
68000 use a 24bit address space = 8Mb
24-bit = 16Mb ;-)
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@lordv:
AWESOME!
Maybe you should talk to Individual Computers and join'em on their A600 accelerator project...
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If you sell them I would buy one :)
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0x600000 to 0x9FFFFF
So, there should be 2 versions - one autoconfiguring as 8mb with no pcmcia, other with only 4mb onboard =)
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isn't it possible to put a jumper or something to altera chip so that it uses only $200000-$5FFFFF when jumpered ?
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Currently no, because all pins of altera used up :-\
But you can have two of them, replacing when needed =)
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Could you add a config register?
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alexh wrote:
Could you add a config register?
What do you mean? Currently autoconfig only used in a tricky way only telling system we are, but ignoring high byte address system assigns to us. I can latch address given by system, but correct decoding of it will cause extra arithmetics/whatsoever so that design won't fit into epm7032. 7064 would probably help, but what for? It is expected we are the only autoconfiguring device in A600 =)
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I was wondering if you could add a register that when you write a particular value to it, it stops decoding addresses in the upper 4 Mbyte range.
You could then switch on/off the upper 4Mbytes in software.
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I have been looking for such a product! You should make it so it accepts a single 72pin SIMM! That way the end user can install a 4MB or 8MB SIMM! I would like to have a 4MB version, that way I can use my PCMCIA port! If you consider selling a 4MB version let me know, I would buy atleast two!
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I could be wrong (sometimes I am), but the SIMM itself is merely a little board to held the memory chips.
So all you have to do is modify a little your board to put a SIMM socket in it. That way the user can choose any SIMM he/she have.
Or the Altera chip must be "notified" of the size of the bank?
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BTW: where can I find the schematics to place a 1Mb SIMM in the trapdoor of mine A600?
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TjLaZer wrote:
You should make it so it accepts a single 72pin SIMM! That way the end user can install a 4MB or 8MB SIMM!
Just installing a smaller SIMM doesn't make it PCMCIA friendly!
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Dunno, if I can buy simm sockets here...
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@alexh
24-bit = 16Mb
Of which 8MB is available in linear fashion for Autoconfig(TM).
9.5MB would be possible if some of the memory would occupy some other memory areas.
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@alexh
I was wondering if you could add a register that when you write a particular value to it, it stops decoding addresses in the upper 4 Mbyte range.
You could then switch on/off the upper 4Mbytes in software.
card.resource checks for existance of the memory at address 0x600000. If any is present, it will not initialize the resource. Thus, even if you could turn off the memory later on, it would not bring PCMCIA back.
If the state would survive a reboot then it would work, naturally.
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A really bad solution for this issue is put a switch in the upper address line of the memory/SIMM to trick the board as only 4Mb is installed, instead of the full 8Mb.
The better of two worlds: 4Mb and free PCMCIA port or 8Mb in your A600!
My only concern is the Altera chip: it needs to "know" previously the size of the memory?
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nice work.
but one question, instead of welding the ram, cant be more easy use a SIMM sockets? if it possible.
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Nice work.
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Doing this you'll have more complexity in the board layout.
I simply prefer the SIMM header to solder any bank of memory I choose. Even if the SIMM fails, it's easy to swap for other bank (although it have to unsolder the bad first).
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sorry for double post.
alert:
the button "Cancel Post" doesn't work
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by rkauer on 2007/12/20 22:27:03
Doing this you'll have more complexity in the board layout.
I simply prefer the SIMM header to solder any bank of memory I choose. Even if the SIMM fails, it's easy to swap for other bank (although it have to unsolder the bad first).
i agree
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WOW Nice project i wish i can do things like that. :-D
Can't wait for finally outcome.
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Piru wrote:
Of which 8MB is available in linear fashion for Autoconfig(TM).
Can someone elaborate on this? I understand what is meant by linear and Autoconfig, but does it mean that the rest (other 8MB - reserved areas), can't be linear or can't be pooled with the lower 2+4MB ?
Or perhaps it means that because the upper regions (past 10MB) are fragmented due to reserved areas (ROM, etc)
Piru wrote:
9.5MB would be possible if some of the memory would occupy some other memory areas.
So does that mean some could be mapped past $A3FFFF-$FFFFFF?
I assume that's what Piru was hinting at.
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But then you need to change the Altera chip for a bigger one or even use some kind of "mini" CPU to control the memory chunks.
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@rkaur:
I assume your response was for me? If so, I'm only asking so I can understand, not so much to have lordv do this. Version 1 is key, the rest is fantasy for now :-)
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da9000 wrote:
@rkaur:
I assume your response was for me? If so, I'm only asking so I can understand, not so much to have lordv do this. Version 1 is key, the rest is fantasy for now :-)
Yes, it was. Add complexity to a simple, but elegant design is not good for a starting hardware. Like Minimig, baby steps, baby steps...
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Indeed... :roll:
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I think piru was referring to C00000-D7FFFF which was intented for a500 internal expansion slot.
amiga system memory map (http://www.ntrautanen.fi/computers/hardware/misc/amiga_memory.htm)
I wonder if it would be possible to hack card.resource to map this area instead of 200000-9FFFFF. of course 4mb pcmcia ram boards wouldn't work, but it should be possible to use CF card readers and ethernet devices, no ?
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@countzero
I wonder if it would be possible to hack card.resource to map this area instead of 200000-9FFFFF
that would be a good idea...
@thread
Do you remember 72c simm sockets are very hard to find now?... And desoldering a 72c socket is a huge job... IMHO it's easier to desolder the 4 chips of a simm than desoldering a 72c simm...
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@countzero
I wonder if it would be possible to hack card.resource to map this area instead of 200000-9FFFFF.
Not with software only.
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Crumb wrote:
@countzero
I wonder if it would be possible to hack card.resource to map this area instead of 200000-9FFFFF
that would be a good idea...
@thread
Do you remember 72c simm sockets are very hard to find now?... And desoldering a 72c socket is a huge job... IMHO it's easier to desolder the 4 chips of a simm than desoldering a 72c simm...
no way, in POR, you can find that in some stores.
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Currently I'm fighting again with some long-term socket contact stability problems. DRAM chips seem to be OK since I've used nice "slow slew rate" option for altera outputs =)
The main problem besides socket contatability, from my point of view, is indeed pcmcia 4 Mb space. So now my plans are to redesign board. It will probably have epm3064 in tqfp100 with no extra MUXes and some jumpers to select none/4/8 Mb size. SIMM sockets are indeed very hard to find except for desoldeting them from old PCs (and more, they should be laying and not standing as in majority of PCs). I don't think this way is acceptable.
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lordv wrote:
Currently I'm fighting again with some long-term socket contact stability problems. DRAM chips seem to be OK since I've used nice "slow slew rate" option for altera outputs =)
The main problem besides socket contatability, from my point of view, is indeed pcmcia 4 Mb space. So now my plans are to redesign board. It will probably have epm3064 in tqfp100 with no extra MUXes and some jumpers to select none/4/8 Mb size. SIMM sockets are indeed very hard to find except for desoldeting them from old PCs (and more, they should be laying and not standing as in majority of PCs). I don't think this way is acceptable.
(http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/2094/v_dram1.gif)
what about of U2J1/U3J1 sockets??
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lordv wrote:
--zip--
SIMM sockets are indeed very hard to find except for desoldering them from old PCs (and more, they should be laying and not standing as in majority of PCs). I don't think this way is acceptable.
So why bother with connectors? Simply leave the copper traces to the final user solder a SIMM right in the place! SIMM banks are common as mud, but the socket isn't.
With this you have a low profile board.
For the contact issue in the processor side, exists a simple fix: put two plastic stands on the far side (ports side) and a screw in the frontmost side. Jens did this in the aka630 accelerator. Much better than put some kind of glue to keep the board in place.
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Just up the thread!
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Currently I'm planning sell some fully assembled old version PCBs (only 3 of them) to start making new ones. Unfortunately old PCBs will be sold to local people who sent me a lot of SIMMs to desolder. =) Anyway, the unpopulated PCBs of this design itself can still be ordered for smth 8$ each (I won't order a huge bunch of them, but little quantities will be priced like that).
Next version will have TQFP100 epm3064 CPLD, jumper for 0-4-8 Mb selection and some elegant (imho :) little piece of PCB under main PCB containing SMD 68pin PLCC socket, hope this will solve contactibility problems =)
Oh, as well, I should put some info concerning this old design... probably within few days =)
PS: Happy Christmas for those of you, who сelebrated it yesterday =)))
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lordv wrote:
Currently I'm planning sell some fully assembled old version PCBs (only 3 of them) to start making new ones. Unfortunately old PCBs will be sold to local people who sent me a lot of SIMMs to desolder. =) Anyway, the unpopulated PCBs of this design itself can still be ordered for smth 8$ each (I won't order a huge bunch of them, but little quantities will be priced like that).
Next version will have TQFP100 epm3064 CPLD, jumper for 0-4-8 Mb selection and some elegant (imho :) little piece of PCB under main PCB containing SMD 68pin PLCC socket, hope this will solve contactibility problems =)
Oh, as well, I should put some info concerning this old design... probably within few days =)
PS: Happy Christmas for those of you, who сelebrated it yesterday =)))
why a jumper for 0 - memory? and can be possible to use SIMS or ram sockets?
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1NOM155 wrote:
why a jumper for 0 - memory? and can be possible to use SIMS or ram sockets?
Jumper for zero: just for compatibility.
2nd answer: not without a major redesign of the board itself. Maybe in version 1.3.
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Why does anyone care about sockets and SIMMS etc. if the boards come fully populated with 8Mbytes soldered down and a jumper?
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alexh wrote:
Why does anyone care about sockets and SIMMS etc. if the boards come fully populated with 8Mbytes soldered down and a jumper?
Because not every SIMM have the same chips on it. With using traces to solder your own SIMM (or a socket) you'll be able to put any SIMM you like.
A board with traces to directly solder memory chips make that board exclusive to just one type of chip memory model.
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:bump:
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You mean like Jens showed in this photo (http://www.siliconsonic.de/news/T630_big.jpg) and this , right?detail of the screw (http://www.siliconsonic.de/news/T630_mount1.jpg). It would be definitely a good idea for the board layout. You'll have to move the HD to other part of the case but it sounds definitely as a good idea.
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rkauer wrote:
Because not every SIMM have the same chips on it.
Did you read what I put? What does that matter if they are sold with the memory already populated?
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rkauer wrote:
Because not every SIMM have the same chips on it.
alexh wrote:
Did you read what I put? What does that matter if they are sold with the memory already populated?
I mentioned it because maybe the board could be sent without any chips (bare board).
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:bump:
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:bump: again!
Does anybody does how I reach LordV? I need to ask him some other questions, but he not answer the PM...
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rkauer wrote:
I mentioned it because maybe the board could be sent without any chips (bare board).
I think the advantages of the seller to populate the board to 8Mbyte before shipping outweigh the disadvantages of designing the board to take a simm slot and then sourcing the simms.
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alexh wrote:
I think the advantages of the seller to populate the board to 8Mbyte before shipping outweigh the disadvantages of designing the board to take a simm slot and then sourcing the simms.
Maybe this is easy to do in Europe and USA, but here, in "Cucarachaland" we have a major plague: brazilian customs(!). The not only put a "little" tax over it (107% of costs, including shipment), but sometimes they simply STOPS the imports!
I prefer to buy a blank board and scavenge a SIMM or (a little better) solder a SIMM directly to the bareboard.
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I'm sorry for not coming here for a long period...
Here is the release: http://lvd.nedopc.com/Projects/a600_8mb/
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Please, let me be the first person to congratulate you for the excellent idea and hard work.
If you guess, I'm making a tutorial to the "A601 without RTC" (aka Tabajara 1.01).
Keep the good work! :bow:
And a comment: this make my banana dance! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
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Well done :-)
Could be nice with 8mb fastram in my A600
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Well, if any of you REALLY wanna order unpopulated PCB plus a programmed CPLD, PLEASE write to my email so that I can manage orders easier. Email could be found in the README.txt inside the archive.
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I'd like to order a board populated to 4Mbytes ;-)
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Great stuff. How much are they populated with 4MB?
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Colani1200 wrote:
Great stuff. How much are they populated with 4MB?
If you read the guides inside the package, you notice the board doesn't change at all, only the code in CPLD will change.
So doesn't matter if you choose 4 or 8Mb, the board hardware will still the very same.
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The first run of 6 PCBs for old design is ordered, will arrive soon. Also 4 of new (2008 y) boards ordered, I'll assemble one as soon as they arrive.
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lordv wrote:
The first run of 6 PCBs for old design is ordered, will arrive soon. Also 4 of new (2008 y) boards ordered, I'll assemble one as soon as they arrive.
PM sent
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Update on http://lvd.nedopc.com/Projects/a600_8mb/index.html
Now there are 4Mb PCMCIA-friendly firmware as well as 8Mb NON-autoconfiguring one. See READMEs for more information.
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lordv wrote:
Now there are 4Mb PCMCIA-friendly firmware
Well done! So if I understand the README correctly you can have 8 MB soldered to it but only 4 MB are used, and if you want to use the full 8MB later all you have to do is flash a different firmware?
EDIT: Or even easier: Use the 8 MB non-autoconfig firmware and choose with the addmem command how much to use? :-o
BTW: What will be the advantage of the 2008 version?
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Colani1200 wrote:
EDIT: Or even easier: Use the 8 MB non-autoconfig firmware and choose with the addmem command how much to use? :-o
BTW: What will be the advantage of the 2008 version?
The board is fully auto-config. No way to use ADDmem.
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@rkauer:
lordv wrote:
Now there are 4Mb PCMCIA-friendly firmware as well as 8Mb NON-autoconfiguring one.
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Would the 8MB-non autoconfig allow you to use addmem to add manually 8MB of fast to the system? Would it allow you to add just 4MB and PCMCIA would still work?
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Yes.
No.
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From the README: :rtfm:
8mb NON-autoconfiguring version.
It is practically useless except for testing memory chips.
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The things are simpler than they seem to be :)
Inside the CPLD there are two independent logic schemes: first controls DRAM (/RAS /CAS, refresh, chip selecting, address multiplexing, etc.), second does autoconfig.
So the amount of memory which physically present is determined by the first part, while the amount found by OS - determined by the second one.
4 and 8Mb differ in first part (for 4Mb, two memory chips are idling all the time) and also by second (4Mb size reported instead of 8Mb).
8Mb non-autoconf in comparison to 8Mb autoconf version, obviously lacks autoconf features =)
New revision will have jumpers to allow you to select 4mb or 8mb, or switch fastmem completely. Also I'm planning trying so-called "slow" memory space (4mb+slow, only slow).
Another improvement is no need to tilt overCPU socket (instead, the board itself is two-level).
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@lordv
wow!
that sounds truly great :-)
I asked about the 8MB non-autoconfig version because as far as I know autoconfig will reserve 4MB for PCMCIA and since that memory will be reserved for it the user won't be able to disable pcmcia make an "addMem" selecting the full 8MB
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Sorry for being so late in this topic here but I didn't know this would be in production! Just 1 query, will it work along-side other ram expansions on the trapdoor slot and will it be ok with a PCMCIA CD-Drive?
Finally, what price are we looking at? :-)
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tokyoracer wrote:
Sorry for being so late in this topic here but I didn't know this would be in production! Just 1 query, will it work along-side other ram expansions on the trapdoor slot and will it be ok with a PCMCIA CD-Drive?
Finally, what price are we looking at? :-)
The expansion on the trapdoor is only 1Mb chip RAM, the project is for up to 8Mb of fast RAM.
With 8Mb the PCMCIA slot will be disabled. Maybe the next design solve this issue.
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No I mean will it work along side my 1Mb expansion?
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tokyoracer wrote:
No I mean will it work along side my 1Mb expansion?
Indeed! If you use this board as a 8Mb expansion, you'll have 10Mb of total RAM.
If used it setted to 4Mb, expect to have 6Mb.
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lordv wrote:
Another improvement is no need to tilt overCPU socket (instead, the board itself is two-level).
Could you explain that a little further? How will the new version be connected?
PS: Great job, but I guess I already said that :-P
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can this be apply to A500, with full 8mb?
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1NOM155 wrote:
can this be apply to A500, with full 8mb?
Of course it can! But you have to modify the 68000 connector to use a DIL socket (wired, perhaps?).
Or make a new designed board.
But the schematics will not change a single bit.
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rkauer wrote:
1NOM155 wrote:
can this be apply to A500, with full 8mb?
Of course it can! But you have to modify the 68000 connector to use a DIL socket (wired, perhaps?).
Or make a new designed board.
But the schematics will not change a single bit.
and can i use the full 8mb ram, without lose anything? A500 don't have PCMCIA, but i wont to use a mod for IDE.
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@lordv
I don't see the price on your web page for version with the RAM chips, do you make that one?
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Say.. how about a similar RAM upgrade for CD32?
No PCMCIA disturbing there, and a slot ready :-)
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In the A500 and A600 uses a MC68K, on ACD32 uses an MC68EC020, the connections points aren't the same.
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I would like to buy one of the newer versions let me know when I can.
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Colani1200:
Could you explain that a little further? How will the new version be connected?
The same way, but the board will be two level, so that no need to tilt the socket when soldering it, also better cooling of CPU and chipset beneath the board. It looks like this: http://dlcorp.ucoz.ru/_fr/1/3207130.jpg http://dlcorp.ucoz.ru/_fr/1/3208886.jpg
Regarding A500, it probably should work, but I haven't A500 to check. Probably new version would be easier to adapt for A500.
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lordv wrote:
Colani1200:
Could you explain that a little further? How will the new version be connected?
The same way, but the board will be two level, so that no need to tilt the socket when soldering it, also better cooling of CPU and chipset beneath the board. It looks like this: http://dlcorp.ucoz.ru/_fr/1/3207130.jpg http://dlcorp.ucoz.ru/_fr/1/3208886.jpg
Regarding A500, it probably should work, but I haven't A500 to check. Probably new version would be easier to adapt for A500.
lordv, i have 3 A500, i can test on one :P
the new PCB, its great, because "on future" can be use on every Amigas with 68K CPU, just have to change CPU connector.
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1NOM155 wrote:
the new PCB, its great, because "on future" can be use on every Amigas with 68K CPU, just have to change CPU connector.
Well, not on every 68k, but definitely on every 68000 =)
68020 has completely different bus. To make things worse, A1200 /DSACKs every empty memory space hole, so one have to either overtake /DSACK signals on the A1200 trapdoor (thus making short-circuiting for motherboard DSACK drivers) or work without any wait states. It is almost impossible for 14MHz 2cycle accesses with ordinary 70ns DRAMs.
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yes i know, lol i don't route correctly, eheh, when i said MC68K, i may say only the 68000 version.
This can be applied to A1000, 2000 & variants, 500, 600, CDTV?
Lordv, another thing, this expansion, can take any advantaged of the A600 trapdoor? Or the trapdoor can be only used for 1mb chip ram?
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A600's trapdoor don't have CPU lines, only CAS/RAS and chip memory address bus, plus the reset signal (good to put a reset button), RTC and audio lines.
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Just another question.
Do I need to relocate the hd of the A600 with this new design, like the old one?
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rkauer wrote:
Do I need to relocate the hd of the A600 with this new design, like the old one?
I've seen the 2.5" IDE support only on some not-very-good photos. But it is situated just over the CPU, no place for anything over it. So I think yes, you have to relocate. I can recommend you using CF-IDE adapter which works just fine, cool and noiseless, and could be stored anywhere inside or outside A600 :)
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OK, then.
But my wife will complain about it:
"You buy another gear to your Amigas?!?! SD card, adaptors? And the hd you bought last month?" Aaaargh! :whack::destroy:
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I am more confused than ever about how this fits in the A600.
Any pictures of you putting it in place?
2-level board connected with standoffs?
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@ rkauer, Know he feeling...
I'd love to see some sort of video tutorial or detailed pictures of it being installed.
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1NOM155 wrote:
In the A500 and A600 uses a MC68K, on ACD32 uses an MC68EC020, the connections points aren't the same.
I know that, I'm just saying that a fast RAM expansion for the CD32 would be very welcome. :-)
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New (2008 year) board is ready! :)
Features:
- PCMCIA-friendly
- Better CPU and chipset ICs cooling than in old (2007) board
- highly configurable by only two jumpers:
* no fast memory
* 8 Mb autoconfiguring fastram, no PCMCIA
* 4 Mb autoconfiguring fastram, PCMCIA available
* 1.5 Mb "slow" ram (but actually no wait states) at $C00000-$D7FFFF (automatically detected by kickstart)
* 1.5 Mb "slow" + 4 Mb autoconfiguring fastram, in total 5.5 Mb with PCMCIA
- Could be used with A500 as well (requires soldering skills), and with virtually any 68000-based device (requires CPLD firmware modification).
Some photos:
(http://lvd.nedopc.com/Projects/a600_8mb_2/1.jpg)
(http://lvd.nedopc.com/Projects/a600_8mb_2/2.jpg)
(http://lvd.nedopc.com/Projects/a600_8mb_2/3.jpg)
(http://lvd.nedopc.com/Projects/a600_8mb_2/4.jpg)
(http://lvd.nedopc.com/Projects/a600_8mb_2/5.jpg)
Orders could be placed at http://amigasc.nm.ru
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Superb work!:bow:
Any chance to use a selector switch behind the A600 to avoid keep opening it?
BTW: how is the price now, with the new design?
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PCMCIA friendly. FANTASTIC!!! :-D
I dont quite understand the options. All this talk of Fast RAM, Slow RAM, PCMCIA friendly, not PCMICA friendly? Whats the max RAM i can have without disableing the PCMCIA port?
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rkauer wrote:
Any chance to use a selector switch behind the A600 to avoid keep opening it?
It's a jumper, just solder two wires to a dipole switch.
7.5Mbytes in PCMCIA friendly mode should be good enough for most A600 applications (i.e. WHDload). I doubt I'll ever change the jumpers.
@LordV
Do you think there would be enough height clearance to use one of these??
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230187497732
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alexh wrote:
@LordV
Do you think there would be enough height clearance to use one of these??
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230187497732
If you use a bit longer pins, why not?
Or just put some insulation between the boards.
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@rkauer:
if you'd like to switch between all modes without opening case, you have to solder three wires. There are 4 pins in square, two pins are ground, another two are connected to CPLD. POssible configurations are: no jumpers, one of two CPLD wires shorted to ground, both shorted to ground and CPLD wires shorted together but not to ground - five modes in total.
I'll write soon manual for this board with everything explained :)
Do you think there would be enough height clearance to use one of these??
Heh, I've used exactly the same thingy, it was located outside A600 with ribbon cable going from it. And then, eventually, it died. Since that I use this: http://www.espada-tech.ru/pr_-25410.shtml Of course, outside case (and without that metal bar).
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The benefit of the one I mention is that it is internal, no data cable, no power cables. Just plugs directly ontop of the IDE header.
I'm not sure there will be enough clearance but we'll find out.
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alexh wrote:
The benefit of the one I mention is that it is internal, no data cable, no power cables. Just plugs directly ontop of the IDE header.
I'm not sure there will be enough clearance but we'll find out.
@Alexh.
Like I'd say before, put a piece of mylar between the boards and you are done. Even with enough clearance, it is a safe measure (remind the 8Mb board is standing only in the CPU PLCC connector).
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I was probably the one of the first to place an order yesterday evening minutes after Lordv posted and at 2pm today I get this mail:
SAS-Pack wrote:
We have recieved an order from you. please, specify your order, as we have recieved empty order form from you, and let us know what exactly you are wish to order.
I know I filled in the form correctly. D'oh I hope I've not missed out :-(
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Of course some insulation could be done. But with SMD PLCC socket the boards sits rather tight. You can fit some plastic stands in the holes on the upper part of board.
Regarding amigasc.nm.ru, there are still some problems, so if any, please contact acidrain directly at staspi yandex ru (insert @ and . appropriately).
I'm going to order some approx. 20 PCBs and parts and start soldering it.
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What about selling the board and the FPGA already soldered for the same 16 USD or even a bit more?
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Do we need to supply a 68000 PLCC and am I right in thinking it's actually mounted upside down? :-?
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order placed!!!
Any advice on how to mount the IDE HD when this is installed?
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TjLaZer wrote:
order placed!!!
Any advice on how to mount the IDE HD when this is installed?
Buy a long cable and find a spot to rest it. The original space (and cradle) will be occupied by the board.
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tokyoracer wrote:
Do we need to supply a 68000 PLCC and am I right in thinking it's actually mounted upside down? :-?
No this unit clips over the A600's SMT 68000
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TjLaZer wrote:
order placed!!!
Any advice on how to mount the IDE HD when this is installed?
You cannot put the cradle in after the upgrade is fitted, look how close to the 68k the holes are.
Consider switching to a 4GB CF card with IDE adapter.
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rkauer, it is possible but then it is left untested: only programmed CPLD (not FPGA, hehe :) and nothing more.
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Do you plan to produce more cool hardware?
a floppy disk emulator that reads ADF files from SD cards perhaps?
Maybe a small 23pin amiga RGB to S-Video (SVHS) adaptor that fits inside the 23pin connector plastic?
or an A500/A600 accelerator that accepts tons of ram? Maybe a full 020 or 030 :-)
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Well i'd defernately buy one aslong as it's not 100's of pounds. :-)
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Crumb wrote:
A600 accelerator that accepts tons of ram? Maybe a full 020 or 030 :-)
That would be delicious... 8-)
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Floppy drive emulator with buildt in memory card reader is something I'd buy a handfull of if available :-)
Just curious, what limits the size of a floppy in AmigaOS? Would perhaps trackdisk.device get very confused if it found a 2GB df0: for example? I have earlier pondered on why there never was a CD-drive solution for the external floppy ports, the speed would ofcourse be bad, but I would assume no worse than floppies.
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Maybe some info about this A600 RAM expansion could also be added to http://amiga-hardware.com ? :-)
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http://amiga-hardware.com is DEAD
It stopped being updated almost 18 months ago when its founder Ian passed the flag to new SysOp Mario.
BBoAH's new address is http://amigahardware.mariomisic.de/index_e.html
I'll add the details to BBoAH now as an "unreleased" prototype and when they start shipping I'll change the category.
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kolla wrote:
Floppy drive emulator with built in memory card reader is something I'd buy a handful of if available :-)
While very interesting, they are of little added value for the Amiga platform due to cheap hard drive support and the excellent WHDload (http://www.whdload.de) software.
kolla wrote:
I have earlier pondered on why there never was a CD-drive solution for the external floppy ports
Such devices (albeit flash based) existed earlier on other systems (C64, Spectrum, Amstrad CPC etc.) because of their lack of hard drive support.
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http://amigahardware.mariomisic.de/cgi-bin/showhardware_en.cgi?HARDID=1786
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alexh wrote:
kolla wrote:
Floppy drive emulator with built in memory card reader is something I'd buy a handful of if available :-)
While very interesting, they are of little added value for the Amiga platform due to cheap hard drive support and the excellent WHDload (http://www.whdload.de) software.
Well, my old floppy drives are all almost dead and for many of the machines there are no network solutions - the main point of such a device is to offer an easy way of transporting data to and from amiga (very much how floppies were used).
kolla wrote:
I have earlier pondered on why there never was a CD-drive solution for the external floppy ports
Such devices (albeit flash based) existed earlier on other systems (C64, Spectrum, Amstrad CPC etc.) because of their lack of hard drive support.[/quote]
And? I have heaploads of amiga CDs, but hardly any of my Amigas have CD-drive, and most of them have no easy way to attach one. All of them (except from CD32) have the external floppy port. If there was a CD-drive one could plug into the floppy port, it would not be a problem. :-)
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kolla wrote:
many of the machines there are no network solutions - the main point of such a device is to offer an easy way of transporting data to and from amiga (very much how floppies were used).
Every Amiga can be networked (albeit slow) using a serial cable. Amiga A500 is the only one with no (cheap) ethernet solution. A600 and A1200 can use ultra cheap PCMCIA ethernet adapter, but I'd recommend a Compact flash adapter. Very cheap, very easy and very fast. Move Gigabytes of data.
kolla wrote:
And? I have heaploads of amiga CDs, but hardly any of my Amigas have CD-drive, and most of them have no easy way to attach one. All of them (except from CD32) have the external floppy port. If there was a CD-drive one could plug into the floppy port, it would not be a problem. :-)
Which Amiga do you have? It is very easy (today) to add a CD-drive to any Amiga. The A600/A1200/A4000 can all take an IDE CD-ROM with just a cable and software. Ok so it's ugly having the IDE cable going external for the A600/1200 but you can fit slimline laptop drives internally with a bit of DIY.
A3000 you can add easily add external SCSI CD-ROM.
A2000/A500 you can also add an externa SCSI CD-ROM if you have a SCSI card (which are reasonably cheap).
But we are going WAY off topic
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Using serial port and PPP/SLiP is not being networked, it is being helped online using crutches. It also requires another machine... heck, I dont even have a PC with RS232, so I'd have to buy USB-dongles!
Seriously, I did that 15 years ago, then moved on to ethernet, I do not want to go back :-)
As for what amigas I have, I have them all.. almost, and yes, I can use pcmcia cards, I have loads of them. But many of the machines I have only have a RAM expansion and nothing more.
My initial question, which remains unanswered, is:
what limits the size of a floppy in AmigaOS? Would perhaps trackdisk.device get very confused if it found a 2GB df0:?
Is it at all technical achievable to build a CD-drive adapter that plugs into the external floppy drive port?
And if anyone have link to SCSI memory card reader (to replace hard drive), I'd be greatfull ;-)
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@lordv
I've tried to order from the web page without luck... and also to send an email to acidrain but still no reply...
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I have sent pictures of hardware they havnt botherd to list dispite 2 e-mails. So much for the ultimate hardware Ami-pedia... (BBoAH)
@ LordV
Looking forward to the releace of this hardware. :-) Any official dates confermed as yet?
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There is no way to pay the board and CPLD thru Paypal?
I (sadly) discovered the international money order taxes from my country uncourageous.
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Are these ready to ship? I placed an order and would like to get one when they are ready. I don't mind waiting if they are not ready though. :)
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rkauer wrote:
There is no way to pay the board and CPLD thru Paypal?
I them asked the same question here's what they answered:
unfortunally paypal in
russia doesn't allows to recieve money for us - only send from us.
https://www.paypal.com/worldwide/
look for russia.
So no acceptable way for me to buy one either. :-(
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Maybe I'm wrong, but the site claims Paypal can send money to Russia.
Even if need to put some surplus for Paypal taxes, it's damn cheap...
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Probably a silly question, but could this be used with the MiniMig?
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yssing wrote:
Probably a silly question, but could this be used with the MiniMig?
yssing, i don't fink your question silly, but reasonably, maybe LordV can put that working.
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Minimig can use a 64 MB dram directly. By just replacing the current sram chip. And change the HDL-code.
So no need for a particular "ram expansion" per se.
The question is rather what to do with any ram above >16MB :-D
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@freqmax
Hardfile cache...
a super fast hardfile in ram...
space for Megadrive cartridges using some kind of paging and reprogramming the FPGA as MegaDrive... :-)
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So in reality, its just a case off adding that extra ram to the minimig board, or switching the DRAM chips?
There is a project on aminet, where you can add an IDE drive to the a500, could that be put on the minimg??
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freqmax wrote:
Minimig can use a 64 MB dram directly. By just replacing the current sram chip. And change the HDL-code.
So no need for a particular "ram expansion" per se.
The question is rather what to do with any ram above >16MB :-D
Which drams could it use directly? I haven't seen any electrically compatible 44pin tssop drams that would fit or have I misunderstood?
Andy
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does anyone know the memory type its used in A500 512kb expansion ram?
see my expansion memory ram:
(http://www.amiga.org/gallery/images/4173/1_3635.jpg)
i know its bad, but clean it, i will put new photos soon, but i need some help to rebuild a new board and maybe make a new ones.
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Minimig can use DRAM that is 3.3V LVTTL single-ended electrically. Functionality is taken care of with HDL-code.
The chip package will ofcourse differ, so either a hack-breakboard will have to be made. Or you simple design a board with correct package size.
Connecting a P-ATA drive something completly different than adding DRAM.
The DRAM on the picture above is likely 5V standard RAS/CAS. Nothing special then perhaps a specific pinout. Check wikipedia on this issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMM
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It would be great if mrmkl's IDE68K project could be merged with lordv's 68K memory expansion board. This would be perfect for the A500, A1000, CDTV, ect. Perhaps a header could be added to the IDE68K board so it would interconnect with the existing 2008 memory board design. This would add flexibility for installation in different cases, that is if it would even work at all.
I have the IDE 68K working in a 1000 just fine but I have no way to add any expansion memory (short of the old piggyback hack) as the 86 pin Bus is occupied by a Sidecar. This would be perfect! Sorry if I Hi-Jacked the thread.
Jeff
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To integrate things on the same pcb takes some layout work.
But if lordv would make a DIP-64 version of the DRAM-board, you could stack it and other kinds of expansion cards as a "tower-sandwich". Well maybe not if the Amiga mainboard is in the original case. (A500, also CDTV has little clearance, A2000?, other dip-64 68000 systems?)
Edit: @Jeff, How much is there free space inside the A1000 in the "upward" direction starting from the mainboad socket?
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@jeff
Can't you add an Insider or Spirit board piggybacked on the Ide68k?
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@mrmkl
There will be plenty of room vertically above the CPU socket for another board in the 1000. The only thing you might have to do is notch the rear of the floppy drive mounting bracket, no big deal. Although I am good with hardware, modifying the layout of lordv's board is probably more than I am in for at the moment.
BTW look here for a picture of your IDE68K board finished and working in the A1000
A1000 IDE68K Running (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=2442=6)
A1000 Motherboard Kick 3.1 and IDE68K (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=2443=6)
@TJLazer
The Insider and Spirit boards are next to impossible to find these days, at least for me. Do you know where I can find one? Even the AdIDE I was watching a while back went for over $200.00. That was when I decided to hold out for the IDE68k which works brilliantly. For now the project has been shelved until something turns up. I've given up on the ranger board inside the sidecar, the expansion bus just isn't stable enough.
Thanks for all the help,
-Jeff
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@Jeff,
Yeah they are hard to find. I have an Insider II in my A1000, would love to have an internal HD and Kick 3.1!
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Any sign of these boards? We placed our orders a long time ago. No pressure, I'd just like to know where we are upto.
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Did anyone ever get their boards or was it some new Russian ploy to con money from the westerners?
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Jope from Finland got his boards over at EAB Forum (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=33671&page=4). He got three of them :-o
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I saw a Spirit 1000 board on ebay maybe a couple months ago, it sold for maybe $25.00.
A better option would be putting a Derringer030 or VXL030 in the A1000. The 68kide board would be good for raising the height of the board to clear the daughterboard. Maybe even put in one of Jens' clockport adapter cards as well. There's a guy who did this (Paul Zaeger) to his Franken1000.
An A1000 with internal 32mb fast ram, 68030/68882, OS3.9, and USB ports via the clockport would be very cool.
There also was a CSA Derringer that sold buy it now for only $99.00 just a couple weeks ago (it was in an ebay store). Almost bought it myself but I already have one ;)
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alexh wrote:
Any sign of these boards? We placed our orders a long time ago. No pressure, I'd just like to know where we are upto.
:bump:
what Alexh said ;-)
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I emailed several times since... no response. I haven't paid because I never got an invoice.
Some people have had their invoices, paid and have already got their boards!
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freqmax wrote:
Minimig can use a 64 MB dram directly. By just replacing the current sram chip. And change the HDL-code.
So no need for a particular "ram expansion" per se.
The question is rather what to do with any ram above >16MB :-D
I was going to pose this question in one of the other MiniMig threads, but since you stated the above in this thread, I will ask it here. When I ordered my sram from digikey they sent me 8mb chips instead of the two 1mb chips I ordered. At least that is what is on the invoice. I was wondering if I could install them and have the Minimig still work, or if I have to replace them with the originally spec'd 1mb chips? I figured since they were for chip RAM they would have to be switched.
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Check the pinout of the two chips.
Freqmax is almost certainly wrong about this.
1) I cannot imagine there are enough address lines for 64MBytes. What a waste of FPGA I/O that would have been.
2) 68k can only access 16Mbytes in total, and Amiga architecture can only have 10Mbytes of that as RAM.
3) Also we would have seen more MiniMig's with more RAM by now.
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amigadave wrote:
When I ordered my sram from digikey they sent me 8mb chips instead of the two 1mb chips I ordered. At least that is what is on the invoice.
I'm at work so can't check my invoice to compare but I'd bet they're actually 8Mbit rather than 8MByte, i.e: 8Mbit = 1MByte.
The only way to get more ram on the MiniMigs is to attach something like the A600 8Mb fast expansion this thread is all about, which might be possible actually. Or to redesign the MiniMig board a little to take either a lot more SRAM (expensive) or cheaper SDRAM. Either way it'll need a new board I think.
I did take a look at using some of the spare IO on the MiniMig 1.1 board to try and do some "dead-bug" style modding with a single 64Mbit SDRAM chip but I don't think that approach would actually be feasible for a host of reasons. Besides I'm still building my FIRST MiniMig! :-D
Andy
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AJCopland wrote:
I did take a look at using some of the spare IO on the MiniMig 1.1 board to try and do some "dead-bug" style modding with a single 64Mbit SDRAM chip but I don't think that approach would actually be feasible for a host of reasons. Besides I'm still building my FIRST MiniMig! :-D
Andy
Spare-I/O offers 3 bit, adding 15/31khz pin as IO make 4 bit for extra use. It could help for addressing more (s)ram.
Altering the existing internal ram structure could be used to have 512kb chipram and 1mb real fast ram starting at $200000 (with propper autoconfig entry). In this case bootrom.v has to be adapted to work with less then 1mb of chipram.
I hope your first selfmade minimig will be finished soon :-)
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alexh wrote:
I emailed several times since... no response. I haven't paid because I never got an invoice.
Some people have had their invoices, paid and have already got their boards!
Just picked mine up from the post office:
(http://home.no.net/husq410/DSC00869.JPG)
I want the PCMCIA for the WLAN card, so I have to settle with "just" 6MB fast:
(http://home.no.net/husq410/DSC00870.JPG)
:)
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What company did you use to convert your money to russian?
What was the total price?
I have an email saying send the money.
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My total price was 27.2 euros + 12 euros in shipping. Google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2827.2+%2B+12%29+euros+in+us+dollars&btnG=Google+Search) told me the price in US Dollars, which I transferred with Western Union.
Quite fast shipping, too. Got it one week after I paid.
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How much do Western Union charge?
I was going to sign up for http://www.wmtransfer.com/ but giving credit card details to Russian companies just doesn't come naturally to me :-)
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WU charged me £10 for the transfer. Quite pricey, but very fast. I also had to call them to verify the transfer.
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Nice to know.
I'm going to try MoneyGram (any major UK post office) as they want to charge £4.99 for any amount upto $100
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So has anyone from the US ordered one of these?
I wired my money and had the item sent (visual proof of postal receipt so the seller is legit) but according to the tracking it's *still* in Russia. I ordered in mid-November and it's either lost or just sitting.
Out of curiosity, what does one do in a situation like this besides wait?
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That's a long time. Mine arrived within four weeks of posting but I was in the UK and it wasn't xmas. (Always a slow time for worldwide postage)
Get AcidRAIN to chase it up. I am sure he would help as much as he can. If you paid for insured postage he can start the claim procedure.
He's on ICQ regularly and is a nice guy.