Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: hbarcellos on December 15, 2007, 12:25:01 AM
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Hello all,
sorry to ask that, I think that it should be already discussed several times, but...
Why OS4 is not compatible with Macs PPCs. Me, for example, I have an old 933mhz G4 with 1.5gb ram and a Geforce 4.
Those Macs are cheap and easy to find, and the other solutions are extremely expensive and extremely difficult to obtain.
I'm pretty sure that they would drastically increase their market...
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:horse: I may actually puke if I keep thinking about this subject.
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AMC258 wrote:
:horse: I may actually puke if I keep thinking about this subject.
x2
:horse: :horse:
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Come on guys.. try to be nice. their probably new and didnt see the other threads.
This place is starting to turn into some kind of "Old white guys only" exclusive country club or something.
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Thanks...
Hey, why you guys don't turn this forum "Invite Only"? That way only you members of the club could participate.
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@hbarcellos
Basically it comes down to licensing. Hyperion only have a license to do AmigaOne and Classic versions, Amiga are not willing to grant new licences.
There was actually a MacMini version being worked on by an OS4 developer who is involved in Acube systems. We only now about this because Amiga Inc submitted the correspondance as evidence in the court case.
Essentially the project is stillborn because of Amiga Inc's unwillingness to come to an agreement with anything related to OS4 or the Classic.
Maybe we'll see Mac versions in the future if the court case works out in favour of Hyperion.
P.S.
If a Mac version was available I doubt it would be compatible with your Geforce 4.
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Hey, why you guys don't turn this forum "Invite Only"? That way only you members of the club could participate.
Did you just say club? :horse: :-D
Dammy
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Yes the older macs are cheap and easy to find..I have 5 of them..One is a Dual G4 @500mhz. Anyone interested..lol..
:-)
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it would be neat but just because it has a PPC chip doesnt mean it will work "out of the box" or with "just a patch".
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Still, the significant roadblock is one of legal idiocy, not technical challenge.
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TheMagicM wrote:
it would be neat but just because it has a PPC chip doesnt mean it will work "out of the box" or with "just a patch".
True, apart from the fact someone got it working on a MacMini... so I'm guessing it must somehow be possible? Honestly, OS4 will be working on UAE first at this rate.. I'm beginning to think that there are Amiga heads who'd rather be watching the Amiga equivalent Court TV mixed with Days of Our Lives than see something useful happen! 'Where there's a will, there's a way' is a good saying here I reckon..
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Back to the original question:
Amiga os1.X, 2.X, 3.x, why not running on old 68k macs natively? The answer will be the same.
Of course it not much work to boot os4 on macs, but 1 or more years ago, when acube tried to wrtite some bootloader/etc to running os4 on macs, there were not working sam440 boards. Now they have. And i think os4 running on it, just the lawsuit, you know...
And it will be a true suicide to compete with their own products now. (moana versus sam440+os4)
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And i think os4 running on it, just the lawsuit, you know...
Well law suits. We have what, AI vs Hyperion, Hyperion vs AI, Hyperion vs Amino, and apparently OS4 Devs vs Hyperion. :popcorn:
Dammy
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derringer3 wrote:
Back to the original question:
Amiga os1.X, 2.X, 3.x, why not running on old 68k macs natively? The answer will be the same.
Of course it not much work to boot os4 on macs, but 1 or more years ago, when acube tried to wrtite some bootloader/etc to running os4 on macs, there were not working sam440 boards. Now they have. And i think os4 running on it, just the lawsuit, you know...
And it will be a true suicide to compete with their own products now. (moana versus sam440+os4)
Well, the first public display of the Sam440 motheboard has been made on September 2006, during the Pianeta Amiga show, so I believe that the project must have been started during 2005. I don't think that Moana would be competing with the Sam440, since Moana is targetted for discontinued PPC machines, while Sam440 is new and available.
Varthall
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OS4 Devs vs Hyperion?? Have I missed something?
Varthall
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Instead of the floggin' horse thingy I think it would be more useful to inform new members of recent discussions...
Here is a recent topic on the subject:
Link 1 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32955)
Also, this topic has some relevance:
Link 2 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33102)
Personally, I don't think it will ever happen.. but a lot of us never thought OS4 would come out properly either - so you never know. :-)
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Varthall,
OT but yes, the Friedens are now suing Hyperion as well as AInc. Refer to the court doc #82, attachment #1, pages 46-47. I guess all those predictions that the Friedens would try to take the kernel and walk weren't so far off the mark after all.
As far as why no OS4 on Mac PPC, Hyperion and the Friedens have consistently shot down that idea for years for a number of reasons, such as:
Hyperion isn't in the "have a few PPC systems lying around market".
We can't figure out the Mac mobos without documentation that Linux groups have had for years, and asking the Linux community for help is out of the question because open source is the devil.
We don't have a license for a Mac port. (this excuse doesn't hold much water anymore for obvious reasons)
Since Apple has gone Intel there are no Mac PPC systems available anymore.
OS4 is poised to take over the embedded market where there is no competition. (not really related but throwing it in anyway for kind of a retro 2005 perspective, lol)
My favorite though comes from the OS4 community itself: releasing OS4 on hardware which is no longer in production would make OS4 look ridiculous.
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jorkany wrote:
As far as why no OS4 on Mac PPC, Hyperion and the Friedens have consistently shot down that idea for years for a number of reasons, such as:
Hyperion isn't in the "have a few PPC systems lying around market".
As opposed to no PPC systems about?
jorkany wrote:We can't figure out the Mac mobos without documentation that Linux groups have had for years, and asking the Linux community for help is out of the question because open source is the devil.
The code to make it work could be open source and there would be no issue, Executive changed the whole multitasking system of the Amiga, yet that was freeware, I don't think it was open source, but it could have been without compromising anything relating to the copyrighted OS. I think it's entirely possible the Linux community would be quite supportive of this effort IMHO, and having the code to make OS4 work on Mac would be possibly better as open source as that could mean more development & more reformed Macs.
jorkany wrote:We don't have a license for a Mac port. (this excuse doesn't hold much water anymore for obvious reasons)
Moot point, it's not a port as such. It's more about co-opting hardware. As for making the classic OS1.3 etc work on earlier Macs, I think it was a little bit more tied to the hardware than OS4.
jorkany wrote:Since Apple has gone Intel there are no Mac PPC systems available anymore.
True, Mac has gone Intel, and this is actually one of the stronger reasons for OS4 on Mac hardware to actually happen, there's a surplus of screaming hot (yet cheap) PPC hardware that will be redundant happening right now as people upgrade. Any Mac made in the last two years will be better architecture than anything made specifically for Amiga at any price point. Even then Amiga benefits from a lot more orders of OS4, which might put a bit of money into the coffers to come up something on the hardware side that is worthwhile, like Amiga OS4 on a Cell based machine.
jorkany wrote:OS4 is poised to take over the embedded market where there is no competition. (not really related but throwing it in anyway for kind of a retro 2005 perspective, lol)
Well, the AOS for embedded/mobile devices idea I guess in hindsight didn't turn out to be a bad one, it's a shame that everyone thought to deride it pretty much.
jorkany wrote:My favorite though comes from the OS4 community itself: releasing OS4 on hardware which is no longer in production would make OS4 look ridiculous.
Yes, this is my favourite too, like having an OS with no hardware isn't ridiculous enough!? Or suggesting that buying old new stock or second hand Mac hardware is somehow more demeaning that scouring eBay for overpriced second hand Phase V products?? (for the record, I own a 603e 240mhz & BVision card)
Gimme a break already! lol Sounds too much like excuses to me.
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i cant believe someone hasnt had go at this already! id love to try os4 but im never going to waste money buying a mega overpriced PPC board for a classic Amiga. Surely this cant be to hard to do as linux should have most of the info thats needed to get this working.
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when you consider the things that get done on other platforms it makes you wonder what talents are left in the amiga camp? the psp slim for cfw was cracked in a day... :roll:
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monami wrote:
when you consider the things that get done on other platforms it makes you wonder what talents are left in the amiga camp?
I suspect most of the real talent has jumped ship to different camps (MorphOS, AROS, Linux etc.).
Not that it's a bad thing - the Community is all Amiga has left, so why not put their efforts into said community projects?
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when we get aos4.0 for older macs, the price of these things will go sky high(specially on ebay). then we are back to the whining again... people are never satisfied...
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Again excuse me for the ignorance, but...
If today I buy an OS 4, what machine it would recommend at the box? The best option...
And how different, let's say a Quicksilver G4, is from the recommended machine? I mean mainboard chipsets and etc...
I'm trying to narrow where the effort would be needed more: Removing protections or re-written some drivers.
:madashell:
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AMC258 wrote:
I suspect the forum does whatever the heck the forum owner wants! :roll:
But here we have a strictly guide to obey. And it don't support piracy!
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Wouldn't it theoretically be possible to modify something like E-UAE on a MAC G3/4/5 to emulate a Blizzard PPC card using the native processor?
I don't know how Blizzard cards arbitrate for BUS access, but some people here must?
Presumably, OS4Classic could run *unmodified* in that environment.
Does that violate the licence agreement of OS4Classic in any way?
Will 601/603 code run unmodified on G3/G4/G5 processors?
Red