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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: persia on November 30, 2007, 04:08:30 PM

Title: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on November 30, 2007, 04:08:30 PM
I just bought one of those flower pot flat screen iMacs off an auction for AU$240/US$200.  It's a 700 MHz G4, has a gig of Ram and a 60 Gig hard drive and a 15 inch flat panel monitor.

My original intention was to put Leopard on it and give it to my son to play with (he's 9) but this thing would make a great Amiga.  I have Leopard running on a Dell box, surely someone has figured out how to run Amiga OS 4 on a old (PPC) Mac?!?!?!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Piru on November 30, 2007, 04:14:01 PM
Leopard doesn't install (http://www.apple.com/macosx/techspecs/) on 700MHz G4.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: spihunter on November 30, 2007, 04:14:51 PM
yea, That would pretty much solve everything and make everyone here happy. Official it will probably never happen though.

If someone does it though I would have no problem using it with my store bought copy of OS 4 though until somekind of new harware appeared.

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: EDanaII on November 30, 2007, 04:21:51 PM
Clever people have figured out how to run Leopard on non-mac WIntel boxes. It almost runs on my T30, and if I had the time to figure it out...

It could be done for OS 4 and PPC, it would just take time and resources...

Ed.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: hardlink on November 30, 2007, 04:34:18 PM
Quote

persia wrote:
... how to run Amiga OS 4 on a old (PPC) Mac?!?!?!


Why just old PPC Macs? I have a dual G5 here that is not that old (1.5 year?) that I'm installing Amiga Forever on (about the only good use I have ever found for the machine). Rather than add development, the main thing would be to ELIMINATE the JIT code part of UAE, since the OS4 code is all PPC. The only thing that needs to be added is emulation of Cyberstorm or A1 'signatures', and away we go!
   
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on November 30, 2007, 04:37:06 PM
Where there's a will there's a way (http://lowendmac.com/osx/leopard/unsupported.html).

Quote

Piru wrote:
Leopard doesn't install (http://www.apple.com/macosx/techspecs/) on 700MHz G4.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: amiga_3k on November 30, 2007, 04:39:01 PM
If he has Leopard allready he might give it a shot. I once installed the latest version of OS9 on an PowerMac 9600. Apple claimed it could not run on it, but only a little modification to a text file actually made it install and run perfectly.

Apperently the guys at LowEndMac (http://lowendmac.com/mail/mb07/1102.html#5) made it happen.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: amiga_3k on November 30, 2007, 04:40:20 PM
Could the link be in some sort of powerpc.library solution?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on November 30, 2007, 05:21:08 PM
The flower pot iMacs would make neat Amigas.  You could even paint the base so it looked like half a Boing ball!

They cost less than a much slower ppc card for an existing Amiga and are being dumped right now because hey are too slow.  The have a real screen not one of those old clunker crts.

I really don't have the software knowledge but surely there could be some patch to make Amiga OS4 run on these beauties!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: da9000 on November 30, 2007, 05:26:42 PM
Quote

hardlink wrote:
I have a dual G5... (about the only good use I have ever found for the machine)


Really!? THAT useless? Please feel free to donate it to me :-D I'll pay shipping and everything and even send you an x86 for your AmigaForever if you want! ;-) Heck and I'll even include a real Amiga!

Cheers!

PS. Amiga OS on a (PPC) Mac would be fantastic! Albeit not likely :(
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: PaSha on November 30, 2007, 05:43:16 PM
IIRC, I read some rumors somewhere (in one of those insanely long threads on amigaworld.net, I believe) that Acube (?) already have managed to get OS4 running on the Mac mini.

Anyone else have any more details about this?
The Mac mini would also make a nice little Amiga.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Hans_ on November 30, 2007, 06:35:09 PM
Correct. It's ACube's Moana project. This has even been submitted as evidence by Amiga Inc in their lawsuit. ACube showed Bill McEwen a screenshot of it running during an IRC chat session. Unfortunately Amiga Inc. wouldn't give them a license, and ACube have had to suspend its development. It's a pity as there are so many more Mac Minis out there than classic PowerPC cards. ACube's SAM440 also doesn't have a license.

Hans
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: da9000 on December 01, 2007, 02:35:24 AM
Yeah, I was also aware of the Mac Mini ports, but because of the KNUKLEHEADED A. Inc., it's "albeit not likely" :~(

I would *so* love to have Amiga OS 4 on my Mini.

Bill McEwen is literally inducing pain to me because of this stubborn refusal to give out licenses that will make HIM more money. This pain of mine will manifest in ways that he will experience as painful himself. All in due time... What goes around, comes around bubba!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: spihunter on December 01, 2007, 02:08:41 PM
@da9000,


Are you suggesting that you have made some kind of Amiga Inc. voodoo doll?

Good idea! How can I help... :lol:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: EDanaII on December 01, 2007, 03:28:14 PM
Quote
ACube showed Bill McEwen a screenshot of it running during an IRC chat session. Unfortunately Amiga Inc. wouldn't give them a license, and ACube have had to suspend its development.


I have to wonder about this. If OS 4 can be made to run on a Mini, then it's a matter of supplying the proper drivers and, perhaps, overriding a protection scheme... any license needed should be from the purchase of OS 4, so all ACube needs to do is sell it as an "enhancement" to OS 4. I'm just not sure why they need to seek a license beyond formality, and, perhaps, not to incur the wrath of Amiga Inc.

Ed.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Kronos on December 01, 2007, 03:36:53 PM
@da9000

Well, with Hyperion refusing to honor their part of the contract there is hardly any money to made for AInc in OS4 on MacMini.

Mind, I doubt things would be much different if everything was o.k. between AInc and Hyperion, but atm their both big show-stopper when it comes to new HW.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Hans_ on December 01, 2007, 04:10:52 PM
Quote

Kronos wrote:
@da9000

Well, with Hyperion refusing to honor their part of the contract there is hardly any money to made for AInc in OS4 on MacMini.

Mind, I doubt things would be much different if everything was o.k. between AInc and Hyperion, but atm their both big show-stopper when it comes to new HW.


This makes no sense to me. If ACube had a license, they would be paying royalties per copy of Amiga OS4 the same way that Eyetech was. Exactly which obligation is Hyperion not honouring that would prevent them from making money? AFAIK the only thing that Hyperion have refused to do is hand over the source-code on the assertion that Amiga Inc. haven't fulfilled their obligations yet. Hand over of the source-code was about developing OS 4.1+, not about OS 4.0 itself.

Hans
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Kronos on December 01, 2007, 04:50:13 PM
@Hans

No need to start another lawsuit-thread, but ...

AInc thinks they have bought OS4 back in 2003, making every copy sold by Hyperion afterwards illegal.

Hyperion thinks that they now have a full/unlimited licence not just to the OS but also to all trademarks, meaning they don't have to pay royalities anymore (and neither would potential HW-partners).

If I were McBill I wouldn't even consider giving out licence until all that is cleared up.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Tenacious on December 01, 2007, 04:55:48 PM
I have no PPC Amigas.  I might look for a PPC Mini (probably inexpensive now) in the hope that someone finds a way to make this work.  I wonder how long OS4 will be available.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: sdyates on December 01, 2007, 06:44:04 PM
I am just happy to see a new Amiga product on sale where there is existing hardware.

I wonder if there will be any other new products released before the year is done. We at least hard OS4.0 last Christmas.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Hans_ on December 01, 2007, 07:24:10 PM
Quote

Kronos wrote:
@Hans

No need to start another lawsuit-thread,


I agree completely with you on this point. I just hope that they can hurry up and get the lawsuit over with.

In the meantime, it's good to see a few new users will finally be able to get their hands on OS 4.

Hans
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Damion on December 01, 2007, 07:43:14 PM
I still think it would be cool to see a PPC Amiga (or Amiga-like) OS on Mac hardware. Maybe it would just make too much sense for amigaland?? :lol: As far as an official port, I recall the reasoning being along the lines of it being "impossible" to support *all* of the various Mac hardware out there (because supporting *all* Mac hardware would for some reason be necessary, as if supporting a small amount of A1 boards and kludged together PPC "classics" was somehow an easier or more reasonable task).

IIRC (this was years ago), I remember a rumor about MOS running on Mac hardware.



Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: pixie on December 01, 2007, 08:06:16 PM
Not quite Kronos, buying back the source gives them just that, the code, nit doesn't cancel the Hyperion's license to sell the OS, the contract wasn't terminated at the time, although it was some time ago.

The way I see the only way that Hyperion could ever recover their development cost would be trough the OS sales, but since Amiga has denied all the possibilities for that to happen is only natural that Hyperion themselves don't ease the source code transfer, of which Amiga Inc didn't even menage to fully pay it... be it 250$, 2500$, or  whatever amount it may be.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Amigamia on December 01, 2007, 08:37:23 PM
How about PearPC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PearPC) the PowerPC emulator? I don't have the right hardware to run OS4 on it but if it would work, I would sure buy it.

I don't think it's fair that only people with the out of production powerpc cards can benefit from this. If we had the opportunity to buy a new board then I wouldn't feel so left out.

What OS4 from booting on other powerpc platforms?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: da9000 on December 03, 2007, 02:46:47 PM
@Spihunter:

Hmmmm...  :evilgrin:


@Kronos:

I see your logic, and it makes sense. What I don't understand is how does it *stop* Hyperion from releasing/selling such a (blockbuster, in my opinon) version of OS4, since they're now selling the same with the Clsasic version, right? The only way it would stop them, in my mind, is if A. Inc. is threatening even more lawsuits about it. While A. Inc. might not care about the Classic OS4, since they know that only like 500 (too much?) have a PPC equipped classic. Dunno...



@-D-:

I agree with your statements. There were other reasons for not doing it. I'm certain Mac hardware wasn't that hard to support, and actually most "new world" Macs are not quite unlike each other.

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Kronos on December 03, 2007, 02:55:54 PM
@da9000

The "classic" is in the contract so Hyperion can still claim they are acting within it.

Releasing it for HW not listed in the contract would be the biggest favour Hyperion could do to AInc atm....
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: da9000 on December 03, 2007, 03:11:06 PM
Quote

Kronos wrote:
Releasing it for HW not listed in the contract would be the biggest favour Hyperion could do to AInc atm....


Right. And by your last sentence, you mean that it will give a better reason for AInc to sue, right?

And if that's right, then my initial statement is still true: Bill & co (I'm beginning to doubt that there's anybody else except him - the company has got to be a front...) is causing me great pain for not allowing, indirectly as it may be, a PPC release of OS4 on Mac hardware.  :madashell:

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 03, 2007, 03:16:59 PM
I'm not counting on Hyp/AInc/ACube doing anything official. And I too am worried that there will be no future releases of OS4. So I have ordered a copy in anticipation of an unofficial "fix" being released which will allow it to run on a PPC Mac.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 04, 2007, 02:50:10 AM
Amiga Inc's soap opera is never ending, either they have exceptionally long outsourcing contracts or they've managed to survive the Amiga Centre fiasco.  Too bad Amiga OS isn't written in C# or they could put their programmers in India on it...

Seriously, kickstart is on the CD so there's really nothing "Amiga" that Amiga OS 4 requires.  There must be something that it checks for, some piece of hardware acting as a dongle.

What is needed is a minimal PPC linux that opens up a UAE that does not try to emulate a motorola chip.  

Flowerpot iMacs and PPC minimacs are abundant and cheap and would knock the socks off of antique 603s.  
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AMC258 on December 04, 2007, 02:59:01 AM
I'd settle for a 603 based Mac.  I'd settle for any computer <$1000 complete that I could buy another copy of OS4 for.  I'm dying to buy my other half a computer for Christmas that she can actually use.  This UAE on XP garbage just doesn't do the job.  And, as much as she liked Solaris 10 on my UltraSparc, I want my last remaining UltraSparc back.
I will probably settle for a new MacMini.  Someday when I can get her an OS4 capable machine I can always sell the MacMini.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: amiga92570 on December 04, 2007, 03:01:38 AM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
I'm not counting on Hyp/AInc/ACube doing anything official. And I too am worried that there will be no future releases of OS4. So I have ordered a copy in anticipation of an unofficial "fix" being released which will allow it to run on a PPC Mac.

--
moto


That would be nice, Keep your motorollin... :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: amigadave on December 04, 2007, 03:27:32 AM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
I'm not counting on Hyp/AInc/ACube doing anything official. And I too am worried that there will be no future releases of OS4. So I have ordered a copy in anticipation of an unofficial "fix" being released which will allow it to run on a PPC Mac.
moto


I don't advocate piracy of any kind, but in this case I wish the person(s) who have figured out how to run OS4 on a MacMini would "accidentally" leak that information and/or code to the Net.  It would then be used with the same OS4 package that is being sold for the Classic PPC Amigas and would explode the sales of OS4 to ten times what is selling now.

It makes sense, as they are not making any money on proprietary hardware with the Classic version of OS4, so why not make money for sales of Classic OS4 to be used on any PPC Mac?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Vlabguy1 on December 04, 2007, 03:28:21 AM
I Have some older G4macs..(one is a Dual500)..if anyone is interested..let me know..hehe..
Let the experimenting begin..

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 04, 2007, 03:57:09 AM
It's not piracy, if you buy a program it's yours to do with as you please so long as you don't distribute it to others.  Parliament tried to change that in Australia, but in the end the argument was that basically, Holden (or Toyota or ...) can't tell you what to do with your car, why should software manufacturers be a separate category.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Faerytale on December 04, 2007, 04:20:42 AM
"It's not piracy, if you buy a program it's yours to do with as you please so long as you don't distribute it to others"

You never "own" a software you buy. You only buy a license that gives you the right to use it.

You dont have the right to do whatever you want with it.
You have to agree to the license agreement of the specified software.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 04, 2007, 04:38:37 AM
I think we're still working this out.  There has never been a test of the shrink wrap license, at least in Australia.  I walk into a store and say I want to buy a copy of a program, the clerk hands it to me and charges me.  No one outside of IT has ever bought a license.  Even Apple is afraid to test it in court, if they find a mod for OS X that frees it from TPM they bully any site that hosts it, threatening lawsuits.  The threat from big lawyers is enough, it's how Microsoft keeps it's illegal trademarks like "Word," "Powerpoint" and "Windows."  Big money wins over the little guy's rights.

In the end the answer is probably "yes you bought the program but you are going to need deep pockets to defend that purchase."  The big corporations win by force what they cannot win legally.  It's really an open and shut case.  Walk into an Apple Store and ask to buy a copy of Leopard, the clerk hands it to you and runs your credit card - not once is the word license used or heard - case closed.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 04, 2007, 04:47:35 AM
Just went to the Apple Store.  They talk about license in the description but when I actually add it to my cart it reads:

Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard
Part Number: MB021Z/A

The same as any other part.  Face it, license was back in the old mainframe days, both parties agreed on terms and they were set forth in a license.  Apple has no more right to tell me what I can or cannot do with Leopard than Toyota has to tell me what to do with my Tarago.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Faerytale on December 04, 2007, 04:55:46 AM
The clerk behind the desk dont give a {bleep} of licenses. He just want you to buy so he can get his share of money.
He probably havent got a clue about licenses anyway :)

But when you install the software, you probably have to click"Agree to license" before you can install it.

About toyota toragos, I dont know bleep :)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: amigadave on December 04, 2007, 05:50:24 AM
Quote

Faerytale wrote:
The clerk behind the desk dont give a {bleep} of licenses. He just want you to buy so he can get his share of money.
He probably havent got a clue about licenses anyway :)

But when you install the software, you probably have to click"Agree to license" before you can install it.

About toyota toragos, I dont know bleep :)


Yes, you are right, but I don't think anyone is going to track me down and haul me off to court because I have bought one copy of OS4 for Classic Amigas with PPC cards and used a hack to install it on one G4 PowerBook, or MacMini that I own.

I for one would be willing to take that risk.  Who would I be hurting?  I could see that it "might" be a problem if Hyperion, Eyetech, or even Amiga Inc. had their own hardware they wanted to sell with OS4 pre-installed on it and this hack had a negative effect on sales of new hardware, but that is not the case.  There is NO NEW HARDWARE available.  And don't tell me you believe the crap about ACK actually building something that Amiga Inc. plans on selling?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 04, 2007, 06:35:56 AM
Quote
Faerytale wrote:
"It's not piracy, if you buy a program it's yours to do with as you please so long as you don't distribute it to others"

You never "own" a software you buy. You only buy a license that gives you the right to use it.

You dont have the right to do whatever you want with it.
You have to agree to the license agreement of the specified software.

The EULA to which you are referring is *not* legally binding. An end user has no legal obligation to run software they buy only on the hardware the vendor wants him to. I have purchased a legal copy of OS4, and I am legally entitled to run it on whatever hardware I choose, and there's nothing AInc or anyone else can do about it.

Also, if somebody releases a patch for OS4 to allow it to run on non-Amiga hardware, then this is not piracy, since piracy refers to copyright theft, not the modification of software for which one owns a license.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AMC258 on December 04, 2007, 10:57:15 PM
No, it wouldn't hurt AInc, Hyperion, etc, that we know of.  But, what if they, or someone else is spending big bucks right now developing a new PPC board for us?  Who does that hurt?  Obviously the PPC board developer.  But, also, those of us who don't want to give up our A3000's for Mac hardware.  Do I really care though?  NO.  I would buy a few more Mac's and a lot more OS4.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Methuselas on December 05, 2007, 12:01:56 AM
Quote

AMC258 wrote:
No, it wouldn't hurt AInc, Hyperion, etc, that we know of.  But, what if they, or someone else is spending big bucks right now developing a new PPC board for us?  Who does that hurt?  Obviously the PPC board developer.



Yes, I'm sure ACK and Elbox are *HOT* on that market!  :roll:


Just make a patch already and I'm buying a copy. Frak AI and all their BS.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: lloyd_mk2 on December 05, 2007, 12:48:21 AM
HI guys just read this thread and had the dream to run OS4 on a PS3 or XBOX360 as they have PowerPC chips.

P.S I know that’s never going to work (unfeasible) but its a nice idea.

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AMC258 on December 05, 2007, 01:18:57 AM
Quote
Yes, I'm sure ACK and Elbox are *HOT* on that market!Just make a patch already and I'm buying a copy. Frak AI and all their BS.


I agree 100% with all but the Elbox part.  I thought for sure Elbox would have started some new advertisements the first day OS4 was officially announced for 'Classic`'s.  But I have a hard time imagining why they are being quiet considering they have no hardware to design, proof, and produce, and surely they would have worked out the software already.  Who knows though.. :-?  Maybe they actually have some sense and are looking into something even more modern, or maybe they're just having a hard time finding these old boards they were going to relabel!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: recidivist on December 05, 2007, 01:42:55 AM
 What is needed is something similar to the Virtual PC dor the Mac which set up the enviroment for  various PC operating systems.It was possible to purchase VPC "bare" and you could then install any legal copy of Windows,i.e. the retail boxed one from the store that didn't specify what brand of computer.

Now why would installing a retail boxed OS4 be any different?

For the masochists or whatever;just install the VPC on your Mac, then install Windows and tweak it for best performance of Amiga Forever ! It should run almost as slow as the original.

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: yorgle on December 05, 2007, 01:47:13 AM
I'm a big old-school Amiga kind of guy - i love the simplicity and smallness of 1.3, much more than 2.0x or newer...

but if i could run AmigaOS 4.0 on this G3 iBook, I'd buy and install it in less than a quarter of a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: TheMagicM on December 05, 2007, 02:11:49 AM
if it was that easy to "patch" OS4 to run on a PPC based Mac, dont you think there would have been someone that would have accomplished this by now?

if Hyperion was smart they would have released this for the PPC Mac a long time ago.  Would there be more AmigaOS users had this decision been made?  You tell me how many OS4 users there are now + Classic OS4.. then think of how many PPC Macs there are available.  You do the math.   Its common sense, but in the Amiga world there is no such thing.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: spihunter on December 05, 2007, 02:19:48 AM
the only guess I can make on why they havent released OS4 for PPC Macs is that its either not legal in some way or they dont think they can make any money off it.

Maybe thats what the whole lawsuit is about? who knows?

At $100 a pop, they would make a killing just off the OS curious folks that could pick up a second hand PPC G3-G4 Mac for next to nothing.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AMC258 on December 05, 2007, 02:46:39 AM
I believe OS4 on (old) Macs would dramatically increase the size of the Amiga community.  Before you know it, OS5 replaces OSX.  Hmmm...  :idea: What would the Amiga girl look like on the TV commercial, "Hi, I'm an Amiga".  "And I'm a Mac".  "And I'm a Peecee".
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Jeff on December 05, 2007, 03:50:43 AM
Although something like this would probably be the only way I would ever run OS4, I can't see it ever happening from a legal standpoint.

One could certainly hope for a backroom solution however:-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: amigadave on December 05, 2007, 05:09:50 AM
@TheMagicM,

There has been someone, or some group, I believe from the same Hyperion group working on OS4 that DID accomplish getting OS4 running on a MacMini PPC.  If you read through all the messages in this post and one of the other OS4 threads, you may find out more about it.  But IIRC, the group or person who was able to get it running even showed it to Bill McEwen and he reportedly used it as part of Amiga Inc.'s evidence against Hyperion in the court case.

So, if that is true, the work has been done and it would only be a small amount of additional work to modify the patch to allow OS4 to run on more Macs than just the MacMini.

We need to find the individual or group who has the code that will allow OS4 to run on Macs and convince them to anonymously post it somewhere that the rest of the Amiga community can get to it and further modify it to work with other Mac PPC computers.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Fizza on December 05, 2007, 08:38:44 AM
Quote
motorollin wrote:
Quote
Faerytale wrote:
"It's not piracy, if you buy a program it's yours to do with as you please so long as you don't distribute it to others"

You never "own" a software you buy. You only buy a license that gives you the right to use it.

You dont have the right to do whatever you want with it.
You have to agree to the license agreement of the specified software.


The EULA to which you are referring is *not* legally binding. An end user has no legal obligation to run software they buy only on the hardware the vendor wants him to. I have purchased a legal copy of OS4, and I am legally entitled to run it on whatever hardware I choose, and there's nothing AInc or anyone else can do about it.

Also, if somebody releases a patch for OS4 to allow it to run on non-Amiga hardware, then this is not piracy, since piracy refers to copyright theft, not the modification of software for which one owns a license.
--
moto


This is the bottom line people, forget the hypothetical bullcrap. If anyone wants to make overpriced and underpowered accelerator cards, then let them stand up and speak for themselves while something actually gets done.

The code is a third party modification or hack, like MagicWB or Executive - jeez at one time, people were all for hacks to make the OS do neat stuff..

If I buy OS4 then it's no-one's business if I manage to get it running on a Mac but my own. The license is valid because I paid for the software, just like paying for Amiga Forever enabled you to run an emulation of Amiga Hardware, on whatever hardware you could get it to run on, and a licensed version of Workbench on top of that. Do you think anyone cared whether OS3.5 was bought for Amiga Forever or a real Amiga?? I highly doubt it. And if it needed a Kickstart image, then I'd go out and get one of those too, just as I did with Amiga Forever. This needs to happen and it could be the final resolution to this stupid situation. There's software, but no hardware.. give me a break, get it on a Mac already!!!!!

Believe it that I would have an i-Mac & OS4.0 for Christmas if this was to happen - and severely tempted to retire my dual Ghz G4 Quicksilver to Amiga OS when that is eventually replaced, and I have a feeling I won't be the only one.

I also believe that once this takes off, or goes viral, it might speed up some sort of resolution to this legal mess that might not take another damn 13 years - and I'm so looking forward to another 13 years of that, not. Unless of course, people are afraid the soap opera will finish? Are Amiga folk just soap addicts now? I hope not! :)

If the Minimig could work, and it should, then there's no reason for this not to either.

PS; I do understand the licence doesn't grant the purchaser anything more than running the software, so the purchaser can make no claim upon copyright or 'ownership' of the actual code itself. To make the car analogy again, if I want to chop up a Ford Focus and make it look like a Ferrari on crack, then it's my perogative, although I might have damaged any warranty claim I might have with Ford, but if I own a factory, I can't go out and reproduce Ford Focus' and start flogging them at half price because I bought one legit. Anyone making a legal threat saying you can't run OS4.0 on a Mac if you get it work is having a proper laugh, and I'd be interested to see anyone issuing cease and desist letters to purchasers of it.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Agafaster on December 05, 2007, 10:32:31 AM
this is an ode un innit ?!
interesting if anyone can get it to work (might source me a 2nd hand PPC mac if it does !), but I seem to remember AIncs reasoning (back when we still liked 'em) that they couldnt do a version for PowerMacs cos of apple never being likely to release the info required to not do a hack, which is effectively what the Linux crew did to get linux on powermacs. now, Linux is community software, and AInc are (for want of a better word !) a company, which would leave them wide open for being sued should they market the technology to run an alternate commercial OS on a closed platform. also, it wouldnt be in Apples best interest to have a better OS (as at the time, OS4 was better than their offering, natch !) on THEIR platform.

upshot: technically, very doable. legally ? potential bl00dy minefield for everybody but Apple.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: jj on December 05, 2007, 10:43:48 AM
Im guessing the main problem is that it was probably the A1 version of OS4 that was beeing ported to MacMini and not the classic version.  The classic version would be missing all the drivers for GPU and soundcards etc , and HDD interfaces
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: monami on December 05, 2007, 11:07:53 AM
apple gave up on the macs that we are talking about? they have little respect for honouring a computer service when they have new money making hardware. and regaurd these older computers useless.if they show they do not care about their hardware by not supporting it why are you all nit picking on their rights when they care little for the rights of the user? the apple user is usually out in the cold a couple of years after they buy a $2000 computer... and has to buy the new os every year for $100. they like microsoft i'm sure do anything they can to squeeze any competition out of the way using any legal loophole etc etc (dirty tricks.) and back up their rights with legalities and consider themselves a self govening self appointed law. do you really like these guys?

if linux can be used on a ppc mac why not os 4?

my ppc mac has no software to run on it as apple abandoned support for it long ago. i hope it makes apple look bad that they have been shown up for what they are. because they would be usable computers again and not put in landfills like apple want! where is our right to sue apple for not being a responsable citizen and keeping their computers from polluting the environment. i wish i could sue 'em. where is the law to stop them box shifting and polluting OUR world.
  :madashell:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: thanos on December 05, 2007, 11:24:53 AM
Several people have mentioned that legal issues could arise in regards to using OS4 on non-Amiga hardware.

I suspect that nothing official will happen in the immediate future as a result.

However...

I feel that after I have purchased something it own it.  I, assuming I knew how, heh, could do whatever I want with my software, or hardware.  I do not think that after I have paid for it anybody else can tell me what to do with it.

What if, I bought a brand new car and turned it into a planter for the garden?  I mean, its my car right?

Ok, thats just silly...

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Agafaster on December 05, 2007, 11:29:01 AM
... but since no one gives a sh1t about Ainc any more, this is all moot, so we should just do it anyway ! afterall, you can now get a bit of software that will dualboot a bogstandard vanilla (beige ?) PC to OSX...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: monami on December 05, 2007, 11:32:03 AM
"... but since no one gives a sh1t about Ainc any more, this is all moot, so we should just do it anyway !"

here, here. right who can code? :lol:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Agafaster on December 05, 2007, 11:57:54 AM
Quote

monami wrote:
"... but since no one gives a sh1t about Ainc any more, this is all moot, so we should just do it anyway !"

here, here. right who can code? :lol:


more importantly - who's got the time who can code ? :-/
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: zhulien on December 05, 2007, 12:02:33 PM
if OS4 was to be made on any non-Amiga PPC-based hardware, I'd rather see it on the PS3... although not very popular (at least here in Australia) the PS3 is unlikely to disappear any time soon...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: beller on December 05, 2007, 02:07:17 PM
@monami

Dude, I haven't a clue what you're ranting on about.  I've been a Mac user since Commodore abandonded us all in the '90s.  I've got a slew of older Macs here (dual G5, a flower pot iMac, even an old 6500, and an Intel mini, not to mention an old Classic 68000)  All of them are capable of doing something useful, and most run OS X quite well.

Take a breath, it's not Apple who's caused this pain you appear to be experiencing...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: monami on December 05, 2007, 03:58:39 PM
i don't like the way they do buisness it may suit the american market but not here. i'm not impressed with the apple user experience. and i can see why they would keep any other os off their systems if they could. constant os upgrade is as bad as the constant pc hardware upgrade. i wouldn't complain if was free. they don't support their own hardware reasonably... the cube, g3 floppy drive on os x, drop support for non apple ppc upgrade cards yadda yadda. a ps3 is a better platform than a mac. but i would prefer os 4 on a mac. and get some justification for the crap apple sell.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Fizza on December 05, 2007, 04:07:59 PM
Quote

Agafaster wrote:
I seem to remember AIncs reasoning (back when we still liked 'em) that they couldnt do a version for PowerMacs cos of apple never being likely to release the info required to not do a hack, which is effectively what the Linux crew did to get linux on powermacs. now, Linux is community software, and AInc are (for want of a better word !) a company, which would leave them wide open for being sued should they market the technology to run an alternate commercial OS on a closed platform. also, it wouldnt be in Apples best interest to have a better OS (as at the time, OS4 was better than their offering, natch !) on THEIR platform.

upshot: technically, very doable. legally ? potential bl00dy minefield for everybody but Apple.


I was always on the understanding that the hack would come from a third party, either shareware or whateverelseware. If so, then there would be no legal ramifications for Amiga Inc, Hyperion or Apple, although I'm not sure why Apple would be bothered, fair play OS4 is nice, but I'd imagine if Apple were worried right now about their OS being thrown off the machine, it would be Linux, or even Windows that they'd be concerned about. Amiga's probably not on their radar whatsoever.

Basically some cunning person(s) come up with the way to get it running, and we all just go out and buy boxes of OS4 and take it from there. Although I guess, the main concern now is whether OS4 Classic can be made to run, and/or the availability of the 'normal' OS4, is that still being sold?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: amigadave on December 05, 2007, 05:00:55 PM
Quote

Fizza wrote:

I was always on the understanding that the hack would come from a third party, either shareware or whateverelseware. If so, then there would be no legal ramifications for Amiga Inc, Hyperion or Apple, although I'm not sure why Apple would be bothered, fair play OS4 is nice, but I'd imagine if Apple were worried right now about their OS being thrown off the machine, it would be Linux, or even Windows that they'd be concerned about. Amiga's probably not on their radar whatsoever.

Basically some cunning person(s) come up with the way to get it running, and we all just go out and buy boxes of OS4 and take it from there. Although I guess, the main concern now is whether OS4 Classic can be made to run, and/or the availability of the 'normal' OS4, is that still being sold?


Yes, the "Hack" must come from a third party that cannot be identified.  It must be anonymously released, or "Leaked" to the public and further improved anonymously as well to protect those persons from any litigation from AInc., or Apple.  It must include all the drivers needed for the specific Mac model that it is intended to be installed onto.

I am sure it can be done, and also believe that it has already been done, as reported, on a MacMini.  I don't know how "refined" and bug free the port to the MacMini is/was, or how much work it took to get OS4 running on top of, or booted in place of the MacOS.  I am positive that if, or when the hack becomes available, it will make a huge impact on the number of sales of Hyperion's OS4.  

Someone mentioned that the version of OS4 that was probably running on the MacMini was not the same as the recently released for sale version for Classic Amigas with CyberStorm or Blizzard PPC accelerators.  I agree with that assumption, but that does not mean that a hack or patch to the version that is currently selling can't be done.

Again I will ask for the person, or persons that were responsible for getting OS4 to run on a MacMini to somehow "Leak" the code necessary to make it possible to run OS4 on PPC Macs to the Amiga community.

If that does not happen, then perhaps another very smart developer can duplicate the work required to run OS4 on PPC Macs and release it, or sell it to the hundreds (and hopefully thousands) of Amiga users and curious Mac and Windows users that want to find out what all the buzz is about that OS4 users have been and will be shouting about with excitement in their "Internet voices".

OS4 on PPC Macs will be a great day for the Amiga community!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 06, 2007, 09:07:25 PM
Trying to enforce Eula is a double edge sword, the jury really could go either way.  On the one hand a lawsuit might scare someone small, but if they threaten someone with big money and it actually goes to court and they loose, eula is dead.  So the key for the software companies is to make it enough of a threat to scare without ever actualy making it to court.

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: A1260 on December 06, 2007, 09:31:21 PM
sorry to say it but it need to be said.... there will never be amiaos for mac, period!... so stop this silliness now!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: EDanaII on December 06, 2007, 10:18:46 PM
Yup. Just like there's never gonna be Mac on Intel, or Mac on non-mac hardware... ;)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Wolfe on December 06, 2007, 10:22:21 PM
Quote

amigadave wrote:
Quote

motorollin wrote:
I'm not counting on Hyp/AInc/ACube doing anything official. And I too am worried that there will be no future releases of OS4. So I have ordered a copy in anticipation of an unofficial "fix" being released which will allow it to run on a PPC Mac.
moto


I don't advocate piracy of any kind, but in this case I wish the person(s) who have figured out how to run OS4 on a MacMini would "accidentally" leak that information and/or code to the Net.  It would then be used with the same OS4 package that is being sold for the Classic PPC Amigas and would explode the sales of OS4 to ten times what is selling now.

It makes sense, as they are not making any money on proprietary hardware with the Classic version of OS4, so why not make money for sales of Classic OS4 to be used on any PPC Mac?


This is exactly what needs to happen for OS4, and Hyperion cannot be held liable . . .  :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: leirbag28 on December 06, 2007, 10:34:18 PM
@Everyone

Kronos wrote:
No need to start another lawsuit-thread, but ...

AInc thinks they have bought OS4 back in 2003, making every copy sold by Hyperion afterwards illegal.

Hyperion thinks that they now have a full/unlimited licence not just to the OS but also to all trademarks, meaning they don't have to pay royalities anymore (and neither would potential HW-partners).

If I were McBill I wouldn't even consider giving out licence until all that is cleared up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------



One of the statements made that was so simply put wonderfully put.......this is very very true what Kronos said, and this has to be taken care of...........otherwise things will get much worse.

Don't matter who is the bad guy here. I hope Hyperion gets their money, but I hope Amiga Inc get their OS4 license and trademarks back...........it definitely belongs to Amiga Inc and we all know it........Hyperion need to get payed for their source code and some of the profits of OS4 and thats that.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 06, 2007, 11:32:15 PM
At this point there have been so many contracts, bankruptcies, name changes and sales I don't know who owns what.  SCOs a good example, the original SCO owned Unix, the new SCO only owned a right to produce Unix System V.  Same name, but the rights to their OS were transfered to Novel.

It'll take years to figure out who owns what.  Hyperion could just release their de-dongled OS 4.  If they lose the court case with Amiga they're toast anyway, they might as well go out in style ;)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: recidivist on December 07, 2007, 03:17:42 AM
 We might be better off with a Mac_PPC AROS or whatever.

Maybe write Amiga "themes" for Linux OSes ?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 07, 2007, 03:33:30 AM
We are better off with OS 4 on old Macs because you pay US$700 for an Amiga 603e card which makes a G3 look blindingly fast.  You can pick up full PPC (G4 and G5) Macs, Monitor, Keyboard, mouse, for less than that.  It's a way to run OS4 without paying serious money for serious trash.

The future of the the Amiga of course is Intel AROS, but that's a different issue.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Wolfe on December 07, 2007, 10:55:27 AM
Quote

recidivist wrote:
 We might be better off with a Mac_PPC AROS or whatever.

Maybe write Amiga "themes" for Linux OSes ?


AROS, is due to hit prime time in 2010 IMO.  Thats too long to wait.  :devildance:

Linux  :headwall:  :headwall: with Amiga themes is still Linux  :smack:
Yuck . . .  :destroy:  :flame:  :ponder:   :horse:  Say goodbye . .  :violin:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Agafaster on December 07, 2007, 11:47:06 AM
I know, I was just stating why AInc never did it - back when we still liked em.

of course, if a 3rd party hack came out, I'll be saving for a G4 powerbook !

Quote
availability of the 'normal' OS4, is that still being sold?


dunno, but if enough people requested to buy it...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: monami on December 07, 2007, 12:11:00 PM
(up a few posts.) i think writing a theme for linux would be nice. but is a last resort!

i am a skint flint and resent apple a bit but if amiga os was on ppc mac i would buy it and a mac. i know at least development would still be around for it in the amiga community. and so would be around for a long time unlike apple's you need a new mac, osx won't run on it pollicy, every year...

also i remember making this comment way back when. when eyetech was coming out with the amiga one and people were saying why can't we just run it in a ppc mac! oh well. :-)

failing all this development things seems to be happening quicker with aros. i was also pinning my hopes on that. just need a browser now...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on December 07, 2007, 12:21:23 PM
Quote
The future of the the Amiga of course is Intel AROS, but that's a different issue.


Let me point out besides x86, AROS is also x86_64 plus our dear Tigger is working on porting AROS to EFIKA (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=46) in early 08.  Once that is done, I highly expect AROS to be ported SAM440 (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=60) shortly after that. Besides all that, there is a initial porting bounty for ARM (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=39). AROS is clearly not about hardware, it's about freedom.

Dammy
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on December 07, 2007, 12:26:59 PM
Quote
failing all this development things seems to be happening quicker with aros. i was also pinning my hopes on that. just need a browser now...


Then keep an eye on this (http://cataclysm.cx/) for OSB Bounty (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=49).

Dammy
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AmigaPapst on December 07, 2007, 12:39:44 PM
@persia
>The future of the the Amiga of course is Intel AROS, but that's a different issue.

AROS is not Amiga, so it is not the Amiga future.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on December 07, 2007, 12:52:13 PM
Quote
AROS is not Amiga, so it is not the Amiga future.


Thank the Great Spirit for that! :evilgrin:

Dammy
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Louis Dias on December 07, 2007, 01:09:46 PM
Quote

AmigaPapst wrote:
@persia
>The future of the the Amiga of course is Intel AROS, but that's a different issue.

AROS is not Amiga, so it is not the Amiga future.


Ofcourse, Amiga today is not Amiga...so what's your point?

@Dammy
I ain't gay, but damn I love you.
Hey if you start an AROS->Gamcube/Wii port bounty, I will be the first to donate.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Wolfe on December 07, 2007, 01:18:18 PM
Off Topic.

What piece of hardware does AROS run native on ie . . . Graphics, sound, enet etc. . .  And I mean stable, not hosted?

Is AROS going to be a complete OS by 2010 (a time/date I picked years ago)?

Good luck, looking good so far . . .  :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: arnljot on December 07, 2007, 01:22:26 PM
I'm not 100% sure if it's been mentioned allready here, but there is one problem with the whole happy pink fuzzy feeling of getting OS 4 on iMacs and the like:

As far as I know OS 4 is only sold as stand alone software in the DCE/Phase5 classic flavour. The other versions were sold bundled with hardware as OEM.

This means that even though someone leaked/developed a OS4 for mac patch/drivers there would be no fundamental legal way new users could benefit from this. In other words, it would require a pirated copy for me who never has had a A1 or similars to run it on a newly aquired Mac.

I think this is why it will be a long wait for us to see it on MAC or Playstation3.

Atm the whole thing is in a "legal limbo". When it gets sorted, or either party makes a bold move outside the court room, then it might happen...

----
Then on the other hand:
I do like to dream and speculate and "what if".

Dream:
OS4 released as new SKU for Mac, Efika, SAM and PS3
And news of a OS4.5 with OpenOffice and Firefox.

Speculation:
HVOF states in their counterclaim that they now own the IP to OS4 as the original IP holders went bankrupt.

This should in theory leave HVOF to do whatever they like now, as the court has ruled against any orders to deny HVOF to continue business.

So my speculation would be that HVOF is seriously considering to release OS4 for SAM "when it's done". But that legal counsel is advicing against it, because they are "yellow" ;)
---

I do not know who is right and who is wrong in the court case. It's not within the scope of this thread, so I'm just focusing solely at HVOF and OS4 to the extent it's possible on the matter of "Mac+OS4" without getting into the quaqmire which is the lawsuit.
---
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on December 07, 2007, 01:47:29 PM
Quote
What piece of hardware does AROS run native on ie . . . Graphics, sound, enet etc. . . And I mean stable, not hosted?


AROS been running native on x86 (and very recently x86_64) for many a moon.  Most unstable part of AROS is Wanderer, sad but true.  List of drivers is incomplete, but there is a list of hardware (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Aros/Platforms/x86_support).  Native PPC is in active developement (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=46).  But to answer your question, I'm not really sure what your definition of a "complete OS" would be so 08 maybe the year?

Dammy
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 07, 2007, 02:07:58 PM
Patching OS X to run on non-dongled hardware is tim conuming there are hundred megabyte updates monthly that break the patch.  Amiga OS is basically unsupported, things don't get fixed, so once it was setup to run on non-dongled hardware it would be for an indefinite period of time.  

If everyone who wanted to run Amiga OS 4 on a Mac bought a copy and patched it themselves then I see no reason why not to.  Amiga Inc has limited pockets, wouldn't it be neat if they were the ones to lose the first EULA case! and finally free us from the needless worry of stupid shrink wrap?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 07, 2007, 02:19:33 PM
And the company that bears the Amiga name this six months just outsources American IT jobs to India.  Are they the ones to decide what Amiga is?  Exacptly what did they buy form the company of the previous six months?  And what did Acer (Gateway) sell to the first incarnation of Amiga Inc?  Did Acer retain anything?

Amiga has passed into the public domain as AROS, just as Unix has passed into the public domain as Linux (and the various BSD incarnations).  Amiga OS 4 is the last gasp of the original, it's like Unix System V, the end of the corporate era for Amiga and the bridge to the public domain era.  

The present is Amiga OS 4, the future is AROS!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AmigaPapst on December 07, 2007, 02:31:28 PM
>Ofcourse, Amiga today is not Amiga...so what's your point?

No, think only AmigaOS 4 with PPC is amiga.  :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: TheMagicM on December 07, 2007, 04:17:41 PM
AROS will be BIG once it has a form of UAE integration built in.  After that it will be on par with and will exceed MorphOS and OS4.

Why do I say that?  AROS runs on cheap hardware.  Period.  Game over.  No need for a overpriced/underpowered A1 type machine or a EFIKA, Pegasos.  Thats just the hardware side.  Everything else is free unless you decide to donate to the cause.  I'll donate once I actually use AROS WITH UAE integration.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: pixie on December 07, 2007, 05:47:59 PM
@AmigaPapst:
Quote
AROS is not Amiga, so it is not the Amiga future.

If by not being attached to Amiga we lose users like you, I think that for that alone it is worth of it...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: amigau on December 07, 2007, 06:31:14 PM
I think it has just as much to do with Apple's willingness to threaten a lawsuit over people 'cracking' their hardware for other purposes, and having the money and market power to back it up.  Hyperion primarily made its money selling Mac games, remember that they can't kill their primary source of $$, after all....

What seems somewhat clear to me is that unlike AInc, Hyperion actually delivered something, and now, AInc regrets having signed that contract - Ben @ Hyperion, being an attorney, was smart though in not committing his resources to doing the work unless he owned something at the end.

Hopefully one way or another, the amiga whiz-kids out there will figure out a way to take advantage of Hyperion's work by buying a copy and then doing 'whatever' with it while we wait for time to end for AInc to deliver something.  I like Bill McE, but actions speak louder than words and Hyperion is the one who has actually done coding and delivered the OS, after all....

amigau

PS - the thought of AOS4 running on an xbox360 is soooo.....unholy...but actually kind funny and would be cool to test, especially if it was more stable.... :)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on December 07, 2007, 06:59:39 PM
Quote
AROS will be BIG once it has a form of UAE integration built in. After that it will be on par with and will exceed MorphOS and OS4.


EvilRich is still accepting donations (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=7).  :-)

Dammy
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: TheMagicM on December 07, 2007, 09:14:30 PM
I'll donate once its done and I can actually use it.   :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: A1260 on December 07, 2007, 09:24:43 PM
please close this threat i dont want to hear more whining about os4.0 on mac again or else i will explode!!!  :madashell:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: monami on December 07, 2007, 09:27:04 PM
@ themagicm

i guess thats catch 22.

i already mentioned i was a skinflint whats the smallest donation i could give... i'm trying to warm my hands on a candle here.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: jj on December 07, 2007, 09:45:29 PM
God A1260 you really are a party pooper, leave people alone to discuss what they like, you dont have to read it.  Why so angry about nothing ?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: amigadave on December 07, 2007, 09:47:08 PM
Quote

persia wrote:
Patching OS X to run on non-dongled hardware is tim conuming there are hundred megabyte updates monthly that break the patch.  Amiga OS is basically unsupported, things don't get fixed, so once it was setup to run on non-dongled hardware it would be for an indefinite period of time.  


If AmigaOS4.x were patched to run on all old PPC G3, G4 and G5 Macs natively, without the need to run the MacOS, then it could not be broken by any updates from Apple.  It would be a dual boot system, if the owner still wanted to keep MacOS installed too.  Besides, how long do you think Apple will be continuing support for PPC Macs?

P.S. Did A1260 "Explode" yet?  AOS4.x on PPC Macs will be the greatest thing to happen for the Amiga community since the NewTek Toaster/Flyer was created.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: monami on December 07, 2007, 09:47:09 PM
i saved a fiver earlier when i ordered a gp2x tv out cable and batteries from the usa. i took the cheapie postage option. it probably won't be here till after xmas! so i checked out being a donor. (where is my tea and biscuit?)
anyway it seems painless for anyone with paypal account. you got a little cash from me. luckily i've found another candle to keep warm. :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: A4000_Mad on December 07, 2007, 11:41:29 PM
@ A1260

(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o164/Cyberstorm604e/grouphug1.gif)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 08, 2007, 01:39:11 AM
It shouldn't be too hard, the A1 specs talk of 32 MB PCI video cards, one A1 is a Radeon, which some Macs used.  There was some usage of AC97.  It appears that many of the Macs fall within the A1 specs.  What stops Amiga OS 4 from loading on them?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: recidivist on December 08, 2007, 02:27:55 AM
 The attraction of Mac PPC is cheap hardware;I just  bought a Mac "digital audio" G4 466mHz tower with ATI 128 card and 15 LCD studio monitor for $100 from a person who decided she prefers Windows ( and besides she insisted the Mac is only good for dial-up internet!!! Couldn't convince her that the  Macs have had ethernet  port standard for years!) This person is a professional supporting activists "causes";no wonder they need so much fundraising,

 I'd pay $100 for licensed,supported Amiga OS4 to run on this computer.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: spihunter on December 08, 2007, 02:41:35 AM
@recidvist,

Yea, right on. People are giving away Mac PPC hardware at this point.

You can get a G4 for next to nothing in my area right now.

$800-$1000 for a second hand PPC Amiga when you can get a faster blueberry G3 Imac for free?

insanity :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:  :crazy:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: TjLaZer on December 08, 2007, 03:35:38 AM
Damn I got a PowerMac 7600 G3 500MHz collecting dust, and also a PowerMac G4 400MHz with MacOS 9.2.2 here... I want OS 4!!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: whabang on December 08, 2007, 10:28:31 AM
I could get a PPC Imac for less than 1000 SEK in less than an hour, if I wanted to. Can't say the same about an A1.

Get a working bootloader and drivers for the Macs, and I _will_ buy a copy of OS4.

AI/Hyperion/whomever would have a certain success if they could just their thumbs out of their rear ends...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Einstein on December 08, 2007, 02:25:59 PM
Quote

Wolfe wrote:
Quote

recidivist wrote:
 We might be better off with a Mac_PPC AROS or whatever.

Maybe write Amiga "themes" for Linux OSes ?


AROS, is due to hit prime time in 2010 IMO.  Thats too long to wait.  :devildance:


1) Offcourse OS4 will hit mainstream computers (X86_64 machines as we speak) soon (2025).

2) And it's wonderful to pay for something lacking severly in relative (to mainstream OSs) functionality..

3) ..while having problems (obstacles) installing it to more than one machine at a time.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Einstein on December 08, 2007, 02:28:09 PM
Quote

AmigaPapst wrote:
@persia
>The future of the the Amiga of course is Intel AROS, but that's a different issue.

AROS is not Amiga, so it is not the Amiga future.


And you're more like a clown!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Einstein on December 08, 2007, 02:36:57 PM
Quote

AmigaPapst wrote:
>Ofcourse, Amiga today is not Amiga...so what's your point?

No, think only AmigaOS 4 with PPC is amiga.  :-D


I like your avatar  :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Einstein on December 08, 2007, 02:41:11 PM
Quote

persia wrote:

The present is Amiga OS 4, the future is AROS!


Half correct, my "present" is XP, sad but true.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Oliver on December 08, 2007, 06:06:04 PM
Please don't take this as trolling, but...

Apart from the hobby/nostalgia factor, is there actually any real reason to use OS4? My reasons for using my last miggies, were some really good old aps, and great old games.

Are there aps for OS4 which can attract a user base? I think it can run UAE, but can it run it as well as Windows on cheap, fast hardware? I presume it would make better use of an underutilised PPC accellerator on a classic miggy, but what would it actually be used for? Can the classic version take full advantage of the old hardware for running old apps?

For my computer usage, I currently find XP to be the most capable OS. It has the apps I need to do my work, and I can buy a copy for about $20 now. I use Xubuntu for other tasks at home. Xubuntu performs pretty well on modest hardware, and can do standard jobs quite well, but there isn't the functionality of my favourite Windows apps.

So I'm left wondering: apart from being kind of cool in its own way, what does OS4 offer at this point? I loved my miggies, but I'm not a fanboy. My really good old Amiga apps have now been superceded by my Windows apps, and I'll probably buy a PS2 or PS3 pretty soon for gaming.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 08, 2007, 11:40:37 PM
It would be hard for Amiga to compete without a killer app, actually without any of the "standard" apps let alone a killer app.  It can render web pages, can't handle html mail.  It's video and audio editors are primitive.  You can't open Adobe docs or see flash on youtube.  You can't edit raw images.  You can't edit and host webpages on it.  You can't open a Word document.  Who would buy it and why?  

This is Amiga Inc's problem, they might love the idea of producing a new Amiga, but it can't compete in todays world and it would be a waste of money, so they talk and delay, then delay more and talk more.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Fizza on December 09, 2007, 12:14:58 AM
Quote

A1260 wrote:
please close this threat i dont want to hear more whining about os4.0 on mac again or else i will explode!!!  :madashell:


Please make sure you have a camcorder running when it occurs and get the next of kin to upload to youtube. thanks!  :lol:

To all those linking this to Hyperion, Amiga & Apple, and all combinations thereof, you're missing the point. As someone pointed out, if a 'third party' were to supply the code to make it boot, then it's none of anyone's business but your own. The Classic bundle is the only sticking point, but that would only require a proof of concept, and if someone were to consider making OS4 on Mac hardware a reality, that's probably the best place to start.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: adonay on December 09, 2007, 12:43:47 AM
Quote

Oliver wrote:
Please don't take this as trolling, but...

Apart from the hobby/nostalgia factor, is there actually any real reason to use OS4? My reasons for using my last miggies, were some really good old aps, and great old games.

Are there aps for OS4 which can attract a user base? I think it can run UAE, but can it run it as well as Windows on cheap, fast hardware? I presume it would make better use of an underutilised PPC accellerator on a classic miggy, but what would it actually be used for? Can the classic version take full advantage of the old hardware for running old apps?

For my computer usage, I currently find XP to be the most capable OS. It has the apps I need to do my work, and I can buy a copy for about $20 now. I use Xubuntu for other tasks at home. Xubuntu performs pretty well on modest hardware, and can do standard jobs quite well, but there isn't the functionality of my favourite Windows apps.

So I'm left wondering: apart from being kind of cool in its own way, what does OS4 offer at this point? I loved my miggies, but I'm not a fanboy. My really good old Amiga apps have now been superceded by my Windows apps, and I'll probably buy a PS2 or PS3 pretty soon for gaming.



A few great points there i agree with most . I will be buying os4"for support and try" for my bppc though. But i will sell it off too someone who need\want it more after a while i think .The amiga things i do is done in os 3.1 anyways .. I don't even need os3.9. I live for games and demos and can do all the other stuff too. Used to run 3.9 see no need for it now .I don't even care much for my BPPC these days..

On the other hand i am very interested in seeing if the Os4 get any sam hardware i may buy it too try but i dont think i need it...

Aros is fun though an will be my second alternative ...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: amigadave on December 09, 2007, 01:28:47 AM
Quote

persia wrote:
It would be hard for Amiga to compete without a killer app, actually without any of the "standard" apps let alone a killer app.  It can render web pages, can't handle html mail.  It's video and audio editors are primitive.  You can't open Adobe docs or see flash on youtube.  You can't edit raw images.  You can't edit and host webpages on it.  You can't open a Word document.  Who would buy it and why?  

This is Amiga Inc's problem, they might love the idea of producing a new Amiga, but it can't compete in todays world and it would be a waste of money, so they talk and delay, then delay more and talk more.


You forgot to mention the part where Amiga Inc. officers and managers (all two or three of them) keep milking their investors the whole time while they produce almost nothing of any value and then go bankrupt without really having to file bankruptcy and start another company to do the same thing to their new investors. :lol:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 09, 2007, 03:26:12 PM
That's why AROS is the ultimate answer, it will run on multiple platforms but the x86 is the most important because it provides the most "bang for the buck."  One a few people would be willing to buy an OS without real software on expensive equipment, but a whole lot more would be willing to use empty space on an existing machine or use cheap parts.

Look OS 4 which is the subject of this thread, nobody is going to see this on US$700 604e equipment, but if you can run it on a US $200 G4 iMac then a whole lot more would be interested.

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AndrewBell on December 09, 2007, 04:01:48 PM
Quote
Apart from the hobby/nostalgia factor, is there actually any real reason to use OS4? My reasons for using my last miggies, were some really good old aps, and great old games.


It's a vicious circle: you need a user base to attract developers, and you need applications to attract users. A slow but steady trickle of either will start to propagate the other.

Quote
Are there aps for OS4 which can attract a user base?


You could attract a fairly large user base with a few decent internet apps and a couple of decent media players. There are plenty of people using Windows who just surf the web, email, listen to mp3s and watch the odd movie.

Quote
I think it can run UAE, but can it run it as well as Windows on cheap, fast hardware? I presume it would make better use of an underutilised PPC accellerator on a classic miggy, but what would it actually be used for? Can the classic version take full advantage of the old hardware for running old apps?


I have read that a number of scene demos work well under OS4, so hardware access doesn't seem to be a problem, but I don't think retro gaming will attract many buyers.

Quote
For my computer usage, I currently find XP to be the most capable OS. It has the apps I need to do my work, and I can buy a copy for about $20 now. I use Xubuntu for other tasks at home. Xubuntu performs pretty well on modest hardware, and can do standard jobs quite well, but there isn't the functionality of my favourite Windows apps.


Yes, AOS4 is missing some useful or vital features at the moment, but it it is also free of some of the less desirable aspects of Windows. Email viruses for example.

The Amiga doesn't need to compete with Windows in every arena. Leave spreadsheets to MSOffice, and games to the PS3. Make AOS the premium choice for internet communication, media playback and general home computing without the hassle.

Imagine an Amiga ad campaign "Because Windows is for dull people in Offices"

Quote
So I'm left wondering: apart from being kind of cool in its own way, what does OS4 offer at this point? I loved my miggies, but I'm not a fanboy. My really good old Amiga apps have now been superceded by my Windows apps, and I'll probably buy a PS2 or PS3 pretty soon for gaming.


If the hardware and software needed for AOS4 can compete on price with a Windows machine, it could offer a more enjoyable experience for the less technically inclined, in much the same way the Mac used to be promoted.
________
FORD CARGO (EUROPE) SPECIFICATIONS (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_Cargo_(Europe))
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Gwion on December 09, 2007, 05:21:34 PM
I have a simpler option,
They have the design for the AmigaONE!
Just re-release it!!!!
(escom did this type of thing)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 10, 2007, 12:26:05 PM
What part of Amiga One is not implimented in a PPC Mac?  

Has anyone tried OS 4 in a PPC Mac?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 11, 2007, 01:37:21 AM
We are better off with OS 4 on old Macs because you pay US$700 for an Amiga 603e card which makes a G3 look blindingly fast.  You can pick up full PPC (G4 and G5) Macs, Monitor, Keyboard, mouse, for less than that.  It's a way to run OS4 without paying serious money for serious trash.

The future of the the Amiga of course is Intel AROS, but that's a different issue.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 11, 2007, 01:37:35 AM
At this point there have been so many contracts, bankruptcies, name changes and sales I don't know who owns what.  SCOs a good example, the original SCO owned Unix, the new SCO only owned a right to produce Unix System V.  Same name, but the rights to their OS were transfered to Novel.

It'll take years to figure out who owns what.  Hyperion could just release their de-dongled OS 4.  If they lose the court case with Amiga they're toast anyway, they might as well go out in style ;)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: issarad on December 11, 2007, 02:58:14 AM
I'd love to have OS4 on the iMac I just picked up locally for $40.  BTW, it's a G3 350mhz, 512mb ram, 30gb drive, slot load cd-rom model.  I got it to familiarize myself with OS X, so the speed doesn't concern me.  But the idea of OS4 on it makes me giddy... too bad it's probably just another pipe dream.  It's a shame, you can barely pick up a stock A500 for the same price I got the mac for.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Fizza on December 11, 2007, 03:29:54 AM
Quote
issarad wrote:
I'd love to have OS4 on the iMac I just picked up locally for $40.  BTW, it's a G3 350mhz, 512mb ram, 30gb drive, slot load cd-rom model.   the idea of OS4 on it makes me giddy... It's a shame, you can barely pick up a stock A500 for the same price I got the mac for.


Forgive my creative quoting, but this is exactly it, it's entirely doable, it just needs someone who has the talent to step up and deliver. To answer the 'no apps', I'll say that you won't probably get Adobe interested any time soon but having a great OS on cheap hardware is an excellent way to kickstart (no pun intended) development as it makes the initial cost almost negligible barring the cost of the OS. Besides if you needed Dreamweaver/Photoshop etc.. you could always maybe dualboot? Or even a sandbox OS X install, it's is running on a Mac after all! The big fish (Adobe etc.) can wait, the tide needs to turn first and IMHO the best shot of this is AOS4.0 on cheap, available, and powerful PowerPC hardware.. hmm.. Q.E.D.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: patts on December 11, 2007, 06:58:28 AM
Interesting thread... Got some old G3's at home.. ;)

Hmmm but i think this tread has gone out of the subject. The question in hand is, could it be done? Have anyone tried it?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 12, 2007, 04:07:12 AM
If somebody has a copy of OS 4 that they'd be willing to lend, I'd be happy to try it in a variety of old PPC Macs....
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Jeff on December 12, 2007, 04:36:58 AM
Fact of the matter is someone claims to have had some flavor of OS4 running on a Mac Mini. I doubt we will ever see that actual version. I'm sure there aren't many copies of that disk, and it doesn't look like they will be selling that version any time soon.

It seems we have no idea how different the currently shipping Classic version of 4.0 is from the one they used on the Mini. I'm sure that it is sufficiently different that the average person(s) won't have any chance of making it work at all.

Perhaps someone who is a talented coder, both on the Amiga and old PPC Mac's, will give it a go if someone like this;

A) Had all the needed hardware and software including Amiga's, Mac's, and a copy of OS 4 classic.
B) Even cares enough to try it at all
C) Has the time to even start trying such a thing

As much as we all would like to see it happen the only thing the rest of us can do is sit back and wait to see what happens if anything. We are all used to waiting forever for impossible solutions to problems or we wouldn't still be here.

I ordered my copy even though I don't have a PPC card. I probably could drop a grand on a 10 year old card if I wanted to, but I have elected to wait at least a few months after some copies make it out in to the world and see what happens.

Jeff
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: jahc on December 12, 2007, 04:56:20 AM
Quote
It would be hard for Amiga to compete without a killer app, actually without any of the "standard" apps let alone a killer app. It can render web pages, can't handle html mail. It's video and audio editors are primitive. You can't open Adobe docs or see flash on youtube. You can't edit raw images. You can't edit and host webpages on it. You can't open a Word document. Who would buy it and why?

You're mostly right, but theres a few exceptions..

Abiword loads MS Word documents (and others, like OO.org), SimpleMail has some basic HTML rendering, CubicIDE has non-WYSIWYG HTML editing with syntax highlighting, and theres at least one or two website hosting softwares around, youtube is accessible with scripts under AWeb and IBrowse and can be played back with MPlayer (just not embedded in the page)..

(I just put the above in bold because I dont want to sound like I'm saying Amiga's are problem free)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 13, 2007, 06:46:13 PM
But again, is there anything in the A1 specs that isn't a PPC Mac?  Well, except for legacy ports...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Hans_ on December 13, 2007, 07:33:18 PM
Quote

persia wrote:
But again, is there anything in the A1 specs that isn't a PPC Mac?  Well, except for legacy ports...


The A1 uses UBoot, so the A1 version of OS4 only has a UBoot bootloader; it won't work on a Mac. The A1 uses the Artica S chipset (from the now defunct MAI Logic), whereas Macs use their own chipset. These are incompatible.

Hans
 
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Methuselas on December 13, 2007, 07:36:46 PM
I'd almost be tempted to start a bounty for some code guru to "liberate" OS4 from its hardware dependencies......  :roll:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 16, 2007, 07:08:12 AM
Yes, a bounty, terrific idea.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on December 16, 2007, 08:12:48 AM
Quote
The future of the the Amiga of course is Intel AROS, but that's a different issue.


I'll dissagree, AROS is currently x86, x86_64, and PPC Linux hosted.  As you probably know, PPC native on a EFIKA is in developement (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=46) by our own Tigger with SAM440 (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=60) waiting in the wings.  What I'm looking for is SMP (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=32) on x86_64 and the first step towards ARM (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=39).  

OK, so maybe I gave an irrational twitch when I see the word "Intel" being used as a label on AROS.  What I'm trying to point out that AROS belongs to the masses of users and archs.  IMO, AROS should be about the OS as hardware is just hardware. Which hardware is going to be used should be up to the end user.  If the end user decides to buy hardware from one of the OEMs (and is it ever nice to say that now) that are supporting AROS, everyone wins.  If not, throwing some beer money (http://www.teamaros.org) at the AROS devs is the next best thing.

Dammy
TeamAROS
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: hbarcellos on December 16, 2007, 05:24:09 PM
About Persia's idea, I think that with some minor changes, this software could be used to run OS4 on Older Macs:
http://mac-on-linux.sourceforge.net/
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 17, 2007, 07:23:13 PM
Do we have a clear picture of what needs to be emulated?  Does OS/4 use any of the motorola chips or Angus/Denise/etc?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: jorkany on December 17, 2007, 08:29:39 PM
Oliver,
Quote
Apart from the hobby/nostalgia factor, is there actually any real reason to use OS4?

No, there isn't. In fact the hobby factor is the only reason, nostalgia doesn't even come into the picture as OS4 is a new OS. Unless you're referring to the fact that it's been languishing around for the past four years, making people nostalgic for 2004, lol!


Quote
Are there aps for OS4 which can attract a user base?

Hollywood is about the only one that stands out even marginally. The rest of the lot are only a draw if you want to pretend it's still 1996.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 19, 2007, 08:03:09 PM
There's the problem, the user base for OS4 is so bloody tiny that no one will develop for it.  Put it on old Macs and you'll have a potential base.

BTW - The iMac that started this discussion is, for now, running Leopard and plugged in my home network, but with read only access to the terrabyte file server....
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Hans_ on December 19, 2007, 08:17:56 PM
Quote

persia wrote:
There's the problem, the user base for OS4 is so bloody tiny that no one will develop for it.  Put it on old Macs and you'll have a potential base.


And developers will also be able to obtain machines on wich to develop and test code.

Hans
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: EDanaII on December 20, 2007, 07:31:19 PM
[Edited because I posted in wrong thread] :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: arnljot on December 27, 2007, 02:57:19 PM
Quote

Methuselas wrote:
I'd almost be tempted to start a bounty for some code guru to "liberate" OS4 from its hardware dependencies......  :roll:


If there was a bounty: Are there coders with the skills? Most of the good ones are maybe busy with Aros, and we'd want to keep it that way? ;)

And the OS4 skilled coders would maybe betray their relationship with Hyperion if they solved such a bounty...

But I'd sponsor this bounty with a few coins... And surely if I knew that it wouldn't detract skills from the Aros pool :)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: monami on December 27, 2007, 05:22:02 PM
i hope this would be on a mac laptop most!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on December 27, 2007, 05:26:50 PM
Quote

arnljot wrote:
Quote

Methuselas wrote:
I'd almost be tempted to start a bounty for some code guru to "liberate" OS4 from its hardware dependencies......  :roll:


If there was a bounty: Are there coders with the skills? Most of the good ones are maybe busy with Aros, and we'd want to keep it that way? ;)

And the OS4 skilled coders would maybe betray their relationship with Hyperion if they solved such a bounty...

But I'd sponsor this bounty with a few coins... And surely if I knew that it wouldn't detract skills from the Aros pool :)


A better, simpler, idea would be to modify PearPC to run AOS4... :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: arnljot on December 27, 2007, 06:00:19 PM
Quote

bloodline wrote:
A better, simpler, idea would be to modify PearPC to run AOS4... :-)


Yes I agree, but what is more likely:
a) UAE gets PPC emulation to allow 68k+WarpUP, 68k+Powerup and OS4?
b) Someone writes the Uboot + drivers that's needed for PPC Macs to run OS4
c) PearPC is modified to run OS4

I'd say b, with 0.1% more likeliness over c.

I'd most of all like to see a made real. But Tony is a busy guy, and has is own focus and priorities which he is entiteled to. And from what I understand from statements from him is that a is not much likely as he doesn't understand the PearPC code that good, and thinks that there are other things that is more important to put into UAE (like better CD32 emu and different cartrigdes etc)

Also I've tried PearPC, it's not a very mature virtualization product. A lot of fiddling in ascii files etc. So for the puritst, like me - I think something that would run on real hardware would be most fun.

Though, the case for PearPC is that then one would have a bounty with a future for OS4 as Apple doesn't make PPC Macs anymore.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: HenryCase on December 27, 2007, 11:15:24 PM
Right, as far as I can see it, if OS4 has any chance of running on Mac hardware, emulated in software, etc... we need to understand how it works. As we don't have the source code, this means reverse engineering. When approaching this reverse engineering work, we have two directions to go in, from low level up, or from high level down.

Let's start looking at the workload involved and the potential benefits of both methods. One way to start at the high level would be to deconstruct the OS4 SDK. From there you should get clues about how the low level stuff works. However, you would not get a complete enough picture to design new hardware drivers and integrate it into the OS AFAIK.

Going from the low level, the most useful device to concentrate on would be the BIOS from the A1. Deconstruct that and you're laughing as drivers all need to run through the BIOS (in Amiga OS4 for A1 anyway), so you'd understand a great deal of what OS4 requires to run. This would require a lot of work, but there are some useful resources on the Internet for completing this work.

Introduction to A1 BIOS:
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/press/1stoct2002.html
Based on PPCBoot:
http://www.linuxdevices.com/links/LK6257448893.html
http://ppcboot.sourceforge.net/
PPCBoot evolved into UBoot:
http://www.denx.de/wiki/UBoot

BIOS disassembly book (for x86 BIOSes but principles will be useful for all BIOS disassembly):
http://www.amazon.com/BIOS-Disassembly-Ninjutsu-Uncovered/dp/1931769605
http://www.geocities.com/mamanzip/Articles/Award_Bios_RE/Award_Bios_RE_guide.html

Simpler BIOS hack (probably good place to get started):
http://os-fun.blogspot.com/2006/05/modifying-laptop-bios-for-fun-and.html

Technical OS information:
http://www.osdever.net/documents.php?cat=0&sort=1

But wait, maybe reverse engineering the BIOS isn't necessary after all. If the BIOS in the A1 is based on code from a GPL project like PPCBoot, don't Hyperion have to release the modifications they made to the code back into the original project code repository? As far as I can tell they do, unless the PPCBoot people gave Hyperion their own license. That means we should be able to find the Amiga DRM code that Hyperion added somewhere on the Internet. Anyone got info that would help us track down the code?

Of course UBoot isn't an essential part of running Phase5 OS4, but it is essential to running A1 OS4 and by understanding how the A1 BIOS works we understand OS4 better as a whole (as well as giving ourselves new hardware opportunities).
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Hans_ on December 28, 2007, 02:26:48 AM
@HenryCase

DRM code in UBoot? I doubt it. That would be the silliest place to put copy protection as replacing the bios would eliminate it. I'm not even sure if there is any DRM code in OS4; the A1 or classic Amiga hardware are dongles enough as-is.

I doubt that analysing UBoot would give you much knowledge about OS4 as it only affects the bootloader that copies the Kernel modules into RAM. I doubt that it would be too hard to write an alternative bootloader; the second-level booter basically searches for a kickstart directory and loads the modules as per instructions in the kicklayout file.

The real issue remains the drivers, and the fact that the HAL is compiled right into the kernel. It would make more sense to decompile the Loader module, and the kernel. Someone who could isolate the HAL code sections would be able to create a patch in such a way that the patch code contains no copyrighted IP. Replacing the HAL is a sizeable task.

The sad thing is that working MacMini OS4 code is sitting on a hard-drive (or hard-drives) at ACube, but they're not allowed to do anything with it.

Hans
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Rob on December 28, 2007, 03:42:35 AM
@arnljot

Uboot isn't needed for OS4 to work on Mac hardware.  There is no Uboot ROM on classic hardware.

OS4 will work no problem with open firmware as long as the boot loader is written for it.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: anakirob on December 28, 2007, 11:49:29 PM
Persia wrote:
Quote
It's not piracy, if you buy a program it's yours to do with as you please so long as you don't distribute it to others.


This has been corrected countless times in this forum, but I think the following information needs to be included. This should clear up any misunderstandings about the Australian Intellectual Property Laws.

I retrived this info from the Business Victoria (http://www.business.gov.au/) Website

Quote

What is intellectual property?
Intellectual property (IP) refers to 'property of the mind or intellect'. It can be an invention, trade mark, original design or the practical application of a good idea. In business terms, this means your proprietary knowledge.  

Although IP is found in the physical entities resulting from creative effort, the IP itself can also be traded separately as an intangible asset.

Think of a CD: when you purchase the item, you receive a disc, a case and a booklet. However, you also receive the designs, logos and the music on the disc. These aspects of the CD aren't objects that you 'hold' (i.e. they are intangible), but they are considered property that can be traded.

By buying the disc, you have not gained ownership of the artwork and music. Rather, you have gained the right to use them in certain ways. This is because these products are the intellectual property of other entities and are protected by laws governing their use, ownership and reproduction. IP laws cover a broad range of products, including:

copyright - for original material in literary, artistic, dramatic or musical works, films, broadcasts, multimedia and computer programs
trademarks - for letters, words, phrases, sounds, smells, shapes, logos, pictures, aspects of packaging or a combination of these to distinguish the goods and services of one trader from those of another  
designs - for the shape and appearance of manufactured goods


So therefore you only purchase the rights to use the Intellectual Property in the manner detailed by the owner of said Intellectual Property upon purchase.

Although personally I don't really care what I am legally entitled to when it comes to IP. Just as long as I don't get caught.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 29, 2007, 03:43:03 AM
Not to belabour the issue but the quote reads

Quote

By buying the disc, you have not gained ownership of the artwork and music. Rather, you have gained the right to use them in certain ways. This is because these products are the intellectual property of other entities and are protected by laws governing their use, ownership and reproduction.


Laws governing - a EULA is not a law, only Canberra can make laws.  In other words use is governed by what Parliament says and nobody need give a rat's arse about EULA.  In fact the information given deals only with clear issues such as look and feel.  Where, in Australian Federal Regulations does it say I can't run "OS X" on a generic PC or Amiga OS 4 on a PPC Mac?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: monami on December 29, 2007, 10:47:10 AM
it's one thing that it's a law and another for someone to waste their time and rep upholding the law. in who's interest would it be?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: ferrellsl on December 29, 2007, 11:05:31 AM
Why do threads such as this one ultimately devolve into legal arguments about piracy or what I can or cannot run on my hardware?  I wish the arm-chairs lawyers (barristers) would shut the hell up and leave matters of law to the judges, law enforcement and the courts.  This is a computer forum.  If so many of you are truly concerned about matters of law, go find a legal forum and bore them to death instead of us Amiga users.  Next thing you know, the arm-chair lawyers on this site will be telling me what I can and can't do in my own bedroom!

There's nothing preventing ANYONE from running Yellow Dog Linux on a PPC Mac and there's nothing to prevent Amiga users from running a hacked copy of OS4 on Mac hardware except for the fact that no one can confirm that the Moana project exists.  If and when someone confirms that it exists and it really works, I'll be one of the first to try it out.  So sue me!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: CLS2086 on December 29, 2007, 02:39:04 PM
Quote
I'm not even sure if there is any DRM code in OS4; the A1 or classic Amiga hardware are dongles enough as-is.

There is a Serial Number in each BPPC/CPPC.
This "feature" is used to registred MorphOS PowerUP...
It's already a kind of DRM  :rtfm:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: CLS2086 on December 29, 2007, 02:43:19 PM
@ferrellsl : Hans did confirm, and i'm quite sure that you can  trust in him for that  :rtfm:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Raffaele on December 29, 2007, 02:44:34 PM
Quote

Oliver wrote:
Please don't take this as trolling, but...

Apart from the hobby/nostalgia factor, is there actually any real reason to use OS4?


Small footprint OS with no resource consuming...

Easy to learn, easy to use...

Logical hyerarchical structure of peripherals and directories...

Directory names are easy to learn and remember...

You will take it all at your command, you control everything in the OS with very few applications:

"Info" DOScommand tells you what are the partitions and main devices connected to the systems

Snoopium, SnoopDOS or Scout, depending on the Amiga system that you are using, they tell you of everything running into it... (Malicious software could be easily spotted and deleted).

Now let see the three major competitors...

- Windows spies you... Try to use MediaPlayer in Windoze... it will send your playlist into internet spreading your preferences and telling it to Microsoft, which thinks that htey can use your music and video preferences to send you commercial advertising thru WindowsMediaPlayer..

You must use twek programs to get rid of this spy behaviour...

It opens a plethora of unwanted services...

You, the common Joe User can't get rid of many of these unwanted services!

Windows update system could run suddenly without the intervent of the user and download unwanted windows updates, not only those which correct windows exploits, but also those installing DRM systems on your machines...

You can stop it, but it pops suddenly in secret running in Kenrl mode, completely hidden to the user...

How Bad...

- Linux requires a degree in information Technology to be mastered...

Its system of directories it is huge and homungus

Applications in Linux requires lots of dependencies, and not all dependencies could result compatible with your hardware configurations...

The gaphical GUI named KDE it is elephantiac and slooooow...

- Macintosh MacOS X sure it seems an OS for anyone, but really it is a OS for geeks (its core it is a FreeBSD Unix like OS, and it shares all the difficulties of any Linux. It requires a degree in information technology to be mastered)...

But all this power it is hidden to the user who is unaware of it...

An interface for VSP (Very Stupid People) hide all the power of MacOS X underneath and the users continues being threaten as baby bimbo, and he stays close in a cage of graphical eyecandies...

Any change you made, the systems pops up myriads of warnings messages, and ballon help windows...

If you are an experienced user of Macintosh you can get rid of all these messages, but you must know where to put your hands and how to uncheck their entries in the vaste preferences system of MacOS X.  

But the meanings of it all is that Apple consider vaste majority of their users as baby bimbos who are uncapable to evolve to experienced users...

Only he who has the courage to dig the macintosh , he will become experienced...

The vaste majority of Mac Users are only unexperienced rich people who buy macs becuse they have a gorgeous hardware design... They can't even manage how to copy&paste, and are afraid of the fact that to eject CDs, DVDs you must put their icons on the trashcan...

(Really I saw people afraid of doing that, because they believed they will wipe out their floppy or CD contents by putting it in the trashcan...

Once at university I couldn't use a Mac II machine beacuse the day before, a girl mangled the floppy drive mechanism by extracting a floppy using a biro pen and a metal clip...

She didn't know how to eject it... LOL! :-o  :roll: )

The common mac users are just stuck to simple writing and navigating internet... Then they will stay forever completely dummy lamers.  :lol:  :-P  :-P
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Einstein on December 29, 2007, 03:43:15 PM
Quote

Raffaele wrote:

Snoopium, SnoopDOS or Scout, depending on the Amiga system that you are using, they tell you of everything running into it... (Malicious software could be easily spotted and deleted).


These "system/security monitors" just hack the OS structures/exception vector table at runtime. These require the OS to either not implement "memory protection" (forget about *full* (real) MP), or if it implements that then it would additionally need to implement multi-user access rights to system resources, which *could* grant higher privileged tasks open access to the whole RAM (among other things). Without these functionalities all tasks are kings of the OS, and can therefore cause any infection/damage as they desire, including manipulating (hacking) these system monitors to make them *believe*.  :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Raffaele on December 29, 2007, 03:47:57 PM
Quote

persia wrote:
It would be hard for Amiga to compete without a killer app, actually without any of the "standard" apps let alone a killer app.  It can render web pages


Amiga browsers such as AWeb and IBrowse render web pages upto HTML 3.2 and no CSS...

Although nowadays vaste majority of forum sites, and newspaper sites are now full of CSS...

Luckily it is now available OWB Browser [see news here on Amiga.org] which handle both HTML 4 and CSS and then you can see any internet page...

Quote

can't handle html mail.


You can tell your mail program to view it thru external HTML viewers such as Strangé (pronounced as "Strange-eh")

http://alfie.altervista.org/soft/strange.html

http://alfie.altervista.org/images/strange.jpg

(http://alfie.altervista.org/images/strange.jpg)

That uses htmlview datatype

Quote

It's video and audio editors are primitive.


Sure you are right about video editors... But take a look at modern Amiga audio editors...

Have you ever seen programs such as DigiboosterPro, or Sound-FX or HD-REC?

(http://www.imn.htwk-leipzig.de/~kost/pictures/sfx_11.gif)

http://www.hd-rec.de/

(http://www.hd-rec.de/HD-Rec/bilder/screenshots/hdrec_scrshot004.png)


Quote

  You can't open Adobe docs


http://www.flickr.com/photos/54643129@N00/714589386/


Quote

 or see flash on youtube.


For simply flash swf files the Amiga SWF player has just being updated two days ago

http://aminet.net/package/gfx/show/FlashPlayer

For common handling of Youtube, in MorphOS we have a good italian Arexx script TUBEXX, which performs all the task simply using HTTPResume and mPlayer.

Some OS4 users in Italy are porting it to OS4...

http://www.webalice.it/pgermano/tubexx/main.html

(http://www.webalice.it/pgermano/tubexx/pix/yt_01.png)

Quote

You can't edit raw images.


Digicamgui reads any Camera with PICTBRIDGE standard:

http://www.seal-amiga.co.uk/robert/amipodder/projects.html#digicamgui

(http://www.seal-amiga.co.uk/robert/amipodder/images/digicamgui_nail.png)

PTPDigCAM:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54643129@N00/712913997/

Also MorphOS ShowGirls could import various image formats such as RAW...

http://www.webalice.it/fulvio.peruggi/public/Pegasos&MorphOS/Articles/06_MorphOS_TLOS/showgirls_001.jpg

See also:

http://amiga.sourceforge.net/

And check there for ImageMagick suite...

Quote

You can't edit and host webpages on it.


Metalweb:

http://www.vapor.com/metalweb/

(http://www.vapor.com/screens/metalweb_1.gif)

Amaya (available thru cygnix X11 engine):

http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=network/browser/amaya.zip

http://wookiechat.amigarevolution.com/pics/amaya_os4_1.png
http://wookiechat.amigarevolution.com/pics/amaya_os4_2.png

Famous Apache web-manager (native on Amiga):

(http://www.ppa.pl/artykuly/pics/sekcje/programy/apache/apache.png)


Quote

You can't open a Word document.


(http://ulisses32.sitesled.com/amiga/soft/uzytki/amigawriter.png)

http://pegasos.jinak.cz/clanky/amiga_programy/final_writer.gif

Amiga Writer loads Word files upto version 6 or 7 (Word2000)

I do not remember exactly what of them...

Documents of Word 6 or 7 could be easily loaded and saved by any Windows Office Suite...

Quote

Who would buy it and why?  


Sure you have been away from Amiga scene from loooong time don't you?
 :roll:  :lol:  :-P  :-P
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: guru-666 on December 29, 2007, 03:58:25 PM
funny, I have always questioned the value of my amiga in 2007, but after all my other machine went down I have been using my amiga 4kt060 for several months and find I can do LOTS of stuff. I still have other machines at work but still the amiga is more usefull than I used to think...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AeroMan on December 30, 2007, 12:44:26 AM
@Raffaele

  Wow, quite cool... ... I'm a bit outdated about Amiga Apps.
  What is the base machine I need to run all of this ?


     Marcelo
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 30, 2007, 04:27:47 PM
Well legal or not, I'm now convinced that this works. Having had another suggestion from AmigaMac, I got my copy of the OS4 boot CD to boot on my Mac Mini and get as far as launching ExecSG, and then it just went to a black screen. I assume this is because my model of Mac Mini isn't the same as the one the boot CD is written for, which apparently causes problems with the video driver.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 30, 2007, 04:53:22 PM
@motorollin:

Holy Cr*p man!

Could you send the files to me perhaps? (Shall I PM you my Email?)

I have a late 2005 G4 Mini with a 64mb Radeon 9200, Will it work?

Thanks, Alex.  :-o [Posted from the Mac Mini]
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: spihunter on December 30, 2007, 05:10:18 PM
I thought that all the mini's came with Radeon 9200's. How could it be that different, that one would boot and one wouldnt? :-?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 30, 2007, 05:16:56 PM
@spihunter

Agreed, Although i'm not sure if motorollin is talking about the two different models from when Apple secretely bumped up the mini's specs, meaning one still had a 1.42ghz G4 CPU with a 32mb Radeon 9200 and one had a 1.5ghz G4 CPU with an upgraded 64mb 9200 [The model I own]

Maybe these are the differences he is referring to possibly?

Alex. :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Raffaele on December 30, 2007, 05:17:06 PM
Quote

DBAlex wrote:
@motorollin:

Holy Cr*p man!

Could you send the files to me perhaps? (Shall I PM you my Email?)

I have a late 2005 G4 Mini with a 64mb Radeon 9200, Will it work?

Thanks, Alex.  :-o [Posted from the Mac Mini]


AHHHH!

At least one people with the right MacMini and the right Firmware...

Please let him download that wannabe loader, so he could test it, and in the end we will see if that was an hoax or not...

However Alex be careful...

backup your MacOS X installation, because this loader could be malicious software and harm your computer...

I warned you...  :oops:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 30, 2007, 05:24:47 PM
@Raffaele

Holy Cr*p! [Again]

Now my heart is beating fast.. ahhhh! Where do I download it? How do you know I really have the *right* mac model?

And I just bought a 320gb External HD so I can back up the Mac to that... But im going to nuke this machine soon anyway and install Linux, Me and OSX have never really got on...! ;-)

Also, please PM me with details of how you think my mac is the correct model...! and also links to downloads etc ... Thanks!

 :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: spihunter on December 30, 2007, 05:29:01 PM
@DBAlex,

I have the file to if you cant get anyone to email it to you. Let me know....

I just want to know if this works or not. even if its limited...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Raffaele on December 30, 2007, 05:47:27 PM
Quote

by AeroMan on 2007/12/30 1:44:26

@Raffaele

Wow, quite cool... ... I'm a bit outdated about Amiga Apps.
What is the base machine I need to run all of this ?


Audio programs run with normal Classic Amigas, you just add some more ram and a good accelerator card with at least 68020...

You must have also good soundcards to get them work at their best...

Metalweb web-designer it is not produced anymore by Vaporware, if I remember well, but you can still found it in some shops.

It will be better if someone could buy the program sources and update it and enhance it with new features.

The same it is for AmigaWriter.

Amaya runs with any Amiga equipped with Cygnix X11 engine...

But even if Cygnix it is 68K compliant, it is better to run it from a PPC... Else it will slow down the 68xxx (020, 030, 040) and become to be usable starting from 68040, 68060

Programs like Showgirls work only into MorphOS PPC...

PTPdigCam and DigicamGUI should work on PPC hardware...

Strangé HTML Viewer for Email programs (and more) works on any Amiga (with at least OS2.1 I think)

OWB works only on PPC OS4.0

Amiga Apache I don't know if it has been updated recently but it works flawlessly even on ancient Amigas...

Sure you need to have at least 68020, 030, or 040 if you do not just want to create webpages to be put in servers, and you want that your Amiga will be the server...

But sure Amiga Apache it is hard to be hacked...

There was an Amiga Server in 1999/2000 which sustained heavy DDOS attack, and pirates were not capable to hacking it...

Then it generates so much trafic that the provider closed the communication with it, but it was not taken down by the malicious attacks...

(Must find again the forum site and forum thread in which I read of this fact...)  :roll:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 30, 2007, 05:59:27 PM
@spihunter:

PM Sent.

@Raffaele:

PM Sent too IIRC  :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Raffaele on December 30, 2007, 05:59:51 PM
Sorry double post...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Colani1200 on December 30, 2007, 06:54:08 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
I assume this is because my model of Mac Mini isn't the same as the one the boot CD is written for, which apparently causes problems with the video driver.


Did you try this with the OS 4 classic CD? I read somewhere that the A1 version is needed, maybe that is the problem.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 30, 2007, 07:29:42 PM
Quote
Colani1200 wrote:
Did you try this with the OS 4 classic CD? I read somewhere that the A1 version is needed, maybe that is the problem.

It doesn't ask for another CD, so I assume it just boots from the boot disc. Unless I'm missing something...

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: HenryCase on December 30, 2007, 07:36:50 PM
Quote
Hans wrote:
DRM code in UBoot? I doubt it. That would be the silliest place to put copy protection as replacing the bios would eliminate it. I'm not even sure if there is any DRM code in OS4; the A1 or classic Amiga hardware are dongles enough as-is.


Fair point.

Quote
Hans wrote:
I doubt that analysing UBoot would give you much knowledge about OS4 as it only affects the bootloader that copies the Kernel modules into RAM. I doubt that it would be too hard to write an alternative bootloader; the second-level booter basically searches for a kickstart directory and loads the modules as per instructions in the kicklayout file.

The real issue remains the drivers, and the fact that the HAL is compiled right into the kernel. It would make more sense to decompile the Loader module, and the kernel. Someone who could isolate the HAL code sections would be able to create a patch in such a way that the patch code contains no copyrighted IP. Replacing the HAL is a sizeable task.


I thought the BIOS would give us some clues about how the drivers worked, didn't realise the HAL (HAL = Hardware Abstraction Layer, right?) was purely run through software.

Hans, can you explain how the A1 version of OS4 boots (from your understanding of the matter)? I have never seen an A1 booting so my knowledge is limited. Does the system perform a POST?

Taking the display driver as an example, does the BIOS have to load the software kernel before anything is displayed on screen, or can you, like on x86 PCs, bring up BIOS settings on screen before the main OS starts?

Quote
motorollin wrote:
Well legal or not, I'm now convinced that this works. Having had another suggestion from AmigaMac, I got my copy of the OS4 boot CD to boot on my Mac Mini and get as far as launching ExecSG, and then it just went to a black screen.


That's awesome. You're not the only one to have some success here either:
http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/152833.shtml

Quote
Colani1200 wrote:
Did you try this with the OS 4 classic CD? I read somewhere that the A1 version is needed, maybe that is the problem.


The versions of OS4 released so far are meant to be similar, but I agree that the A1 version is more likely to be successful, as the h/w for MacMini is closer to A1 h/w than CSPPC/BPPC h/w. Also, if these are the leaked Project Moana files it would have been developed with A1 OS4 as Classic OS4 wasn't as complete at the time the Moana announcement was made.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Zac67 on December 30, 2007, 07:47:21 PM
Is AmigaMac's boot CD a hoax or not? Just got a PowerMac 9500 for peanuts, a Crescendo G4/1GHz is only $99 for it.
Does this actually work?? Can anyone send me the file?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 30, 2007, 08:12:05 PM
Well, Guess What...

The thing friggin boots to the OS4 Kernel doesn't it!

 :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o

Thats using the 1st option on the CD... the other options don't work as well, although I can get to the early boot screen by holding down both mouse buttons and all my hardware is detected... More to come w/ pictures and videos (is that legal?)

 :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o

Its amazing though! :-)

I can't get to load the workbench or anything, is that right or not?

I can only access the early boot menu if I use option 4 or 5 in the boot options (shown in the screenshot)...

Its amazing though!
 :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Hans_ on December 30, 2007, 08:13:46 PM
Quote

HenryCase wrote:
I thought the BIOS would give us some clues about how the drivers worked, didn't realise the HAL (HAL = Hardware Abstraction Layer, right?) was purely run through software.

Hans, can you explain how the A1 version of OS4 boots (from your understanding of the matter)? I have never seen an A1 booting so my knowledge is limited. Does the system perform a POST?


UBoot looks a lot like a PC bios. It has an x86 emulator so that it can use the VGA-bios to display text/menus. After power-on tests it searches for a hard-drive with a Second-Level Booter (SLB). You can configure UBoot to boot via other methods too, e.g., via TFTP. The second-level booter scans the hard-drive for a partition containing Amiga OS4, and for Linux boot directories containing a boot.conf (or is that a1boot.conf? I can't remember). The user can select whatever configuration he/she wishes to boot. If OS4 is selected, the SLB loads the kickstart modules into RAM and starts ExecSG and UBoot drops out of the picture. The kickstart modules must include all the drivers for the essential hardware components (i.e., the IDE drivers, VGA drivers, northbridge, etc.). Holding down both mouse buttons at this point brings up the Amiga Boot menu that people are used to from Amiga OS 2.0 and up.

This is my basic understanding of the boot process on my A1.  Note that I've never seen any code, nor tried to analyse the process in any detail. I think that loading the kickstart into memory would be the easiest thing to do if you were porting OS4, and the OS4 developers have said that different BIOSes are fairly trivial to adapt to. The HAL, on the other hand, must be adapted to whatever particular PowerPC variant is being used.

Hans
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: kickstart on December 30, 2007, 09:22:08 PM
Hi.

I reading something about it in anothe amiga forum and i cant believe the poor explanations or docs of this loader for macmini ppc, its true or hoax?

If its true, why make a loader only for a certain model of macmini ppc?

I own a macmini g4 1,42ghz 32mb radeon and this loader dont work here.

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 30, 2007, 09:30:35 PM
It works, trust me, I just can't release any information at the moment.

I have it booting to the OS4 Kernel screen here on a 1.5ghz with 64mb Radeon 9200 Mac Mini.

Alex.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: spihunter on December 30, 2007, 09:36:14 PM
interesting.... Maybe the 1.5ghz G4 64MB Radeon is the "special" Mini it was made for?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: kickstart on December 30, 2007, 09:43:34 PM
Ok i trust you, but why this secretism?

1,5ghz 64mb radeon or the openfirmware are a minor update just for not run another OS, exist another version of this loader for different versions of openfirmware?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: skurk on December 30, 2007, 09:53:03 PM
Bloody hell, now you guys got me going.

Alex, let's hear/see it (and if you need images/videos hosted somewhere, send me a PM)

I have an old PPC Mini gathering dust (can't remember the FW version ATM).  I'd love to give this a go, too.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 30, 2007, 10:03:30 PM
Just watched Alex's video. This definitely works.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AeroMan on December 30, 2007, 10:14:21 PM
Where's the video ??? Where's the video ???
I'm getting anxious... This would close 2007 with a golden key

(Should I run to E bay to get my Amiga Mini ???)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 30, 2007, 10:20:28 PM
 
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: HenryCase on December 30, 2007, 10:27:00 PM
@Hans
Thanks for the info Hans. I am basing my analysis of A1's boot sequence on my limited knowledge of the x86 PC boot sequence. However, one part of your explanation leaves me a little mystified...

If UBoot powers up the system and tests it before handing control to OS4, then it already has the hardware drivers loaded, right (otherwise it would limit the tests it could perform)? If the hardware drivers are loaded by UBoot, why would OS4 then go to the trouble of loading them again? If your description is accurate then Hyperion have shot themselves in the foot by not using the most efficient loading method.

@DBAlex
You da man! :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: wegster on December 30, 2007, 10:27:01 PM
Quote

OK... Wegster can decide if these stay or not... These are TEMPORARY... They may be removed soon...!
Enjoy! :-D


I think you've got me confused with Wayne...I'm a mod on AW, not A.org :-D

Interesting stuff, nonetheless...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AeroMan on December 30, 2007, 10:37:20 PM
Oh my god... AmigaMac reached the Holy Grail and was banned from the other forum.
He should be pi**ed...

Does it needs OS4 CDs to boot ? If it does, is the classic version enough or do I need to get an A1 version ?

I thin we're going to have a really happy new year !
 :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 30, 2007, 10:40:44 PM
@AeroMan

Nah, It boots just from the files that AmigaMac released on EAB as long as the Mac Mini firmware version is right [1.5ghz G4 - 64mb Radeon 9200]

I'm going to be trying different things to get more of a "successful" boot in the next couple of days.

What a nice present for the new year, hehe! :-)

 :-D  :-D  :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Colani1200 on December 30, 2007, 10:44:54 PM
 :-o
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Sir_Lucas on December 30, 2007, 10:49:02 PM
This is amazing!!! What a view !!!!  :-o
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Colani1200 on December 30, 2007, 10:50:50 PM
So... when this "insert disk animation" comes, I guess it is time to stick in the OS4 CD?!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 30, 2007, 10:52:01 PM
@Colani1200 & @Sir_Lucas:

Hehe, Nah, It will be more amazing when I can boot the workbench...

This is being worked on... More info in the next couple of days...

 :-)  :-)  :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AeroMan on December 30, 2007, 11:02:16 PM
... no Mac Minis @1.5GHz on Ebay  :-(

Anyway, I don't have the money right now. I have to replace my stolen car  :-(  :-(  :-(
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: rzookol on December 30, 2007, 11:05:35 PM
nice :)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: giZmo350 on December 30, 2007, 11:14:10 PM
This is amazing to watch develope all over the web! Mac Mini's are flying out of ebay like "Pigs In A Floyd Dream!"
Peeps on Amiga boards all over the world are posting links to MacMini's that are for sale! LOL...  And soon as they get this running I'll be buying OS4 for sure - if there's any left on the shelves!!

Where can I download the OS4 loader ISO? Seems to be gone from the English Amiga Board... and I can't read Italian over IKSNET! Oh wait...  BABELFISH! hahahaha
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Sir_Lucas on December 30, 2007, 11:17:39 PM
Plz do keep us posted and CONGRATULATION !
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: humppa on December 30, 2007, 11:20:44 PM
Quote
Where can I download the OS4 loader ISO?


See the Moobunny link on the previous page.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 30, 2007, 11:20:52 PM
@gizmo350:

PM Me, I can probably help you. Do you have a machine you think you can boot it on? [I want more people to boot it for proof...]

@Sir_Lucas:

Hehe I have to go to bed soon, and won't be able to update until I *receive* files needed to continue... *hint* I don't own an AmigaOne or Classic PPC... *hint*

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: spihunter on December 30, 2007, 11:24:24 PM
Freakin sweeeeeeeeeeetttttttt!! :-o  :-o  :-o
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AeroMan on December 30, 2007, 11:32:54 PM
There are loads of 1.42GHz Macs, but couldn't find any 1.5 anywhere. Now the question for the Mac guys:

Is there any way to update a Mac with the right firmware ? Even older ones ?

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Norway on December 30, 2007, 11:35:47 PM
so now we only need a copy of os4.  :-(    
this is just frustraiting i think, but wery good news for those who have a dead aone.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: kickstart on December 30, 2007, 11:36:20 PM
Im trying on my macmini g4 (again)...

Booting with alt+left apple key+O+F
Then typing:
     setenv boota-device cd:
     boot cd:\\slb
Then some text and 6 options
 1 mm_full_silent
 2 mm_videodeb_nop96
 3 mm_videodeb_nop96_usb
 4 mm_full_video
 5 mm_full_silent_usb
 6 mm_full_silent_usb_debug

What option may use? Using option 1 i only have a black screen.

My mini g4 is openfirmware 4.8.9f1
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: giZmo350 on December 30, 2007, 11:38:18 PM
@AeroMan

There's no way to update a PPC macmini. It's a bummer! But I'll bet someone will get it working on the 1.42ghz machine sooner or later.

Mac Mini forum HERE.... (http://www.123macmini.com/)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 30, 2007, 11:43:29 PM
@kickstart:

Try 5 and try holding down both mouse buttons on the mouse to get to the early boot menu...

Try the same with 4 too.

[If at any point the boot halts just press enter... Also have you tried waiting? It does take a while after the black screen for the kickstart to pop up...]

Alex. :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: kickstart on December 30, 2007, 11:53:28 PM
Still black screen with 5 and both mouse buttons pressed :(

This is a 1,42mhz one

edited: Using 4 option obtain an error screen with something like a debug error, anyway, its needed 512mb of ram? mine is 256mb
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 30, 2007, 11:57:50 PM
@kickstart

Hmm, its probably not the right firmware revision then...

You are only holding down the mouse buttons when you see the black screen right?

I'm gonna have another play with it myself in a sec.

Alex.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: redrumloa on December 31, 2007, 01:23:47 AM
Resize the pictures please, or just make links to them. Way too big for a forum posting.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Jeff on December 31, 2007, 02:45:26 AM
Great Work! I would like to see the video but permission denied. Do you have a working link to the avi?

Thanks and Happy New Year!
Jeff
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: giZmo350 on December 31, 2007, 03:23:18 AM
OK, The installer got pretty far copying files. It stopped at "About to build the copy of the OF tree - press any key"

Is this going to screw up my MAC OS installation that's already on the mini HDD if I continue? I don't want to do that!

 :-?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Johan Samuelsson on December 31, 2007, 03:32:24 AM
installer?
it just reads the files into memory.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: giZmo350 on December 31, 2007, 03:42:11 AM
OK, well the routine says that it's copying a bunch of stuff and I got worried! SO, if all goes well I should get the requesting workbench screen right? I simply pressed option 1 and enter. Should I select some other option (1 thru 6) to get the "Amiga Early Startup Control" screen? Do I need to then select "BOOT" to go on from there? Do I need the OS4 CD to get to the floppy animation screen?

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Raffaele on December 31, 2007, 03:51:22 AM
Quote

DBAlex wrote:


PHWEW! When my brotehr who was checking the internet told me that Alex succeded I could not believe in him. I believe It was joking with me...

But I understood Alex bootloaded ENTIRE AmigaOS 4.0...

Also when I come back home I totally in a comatose state, and when I saw first screens I want to cry of joy, but I also feared for DBAlex... I think that someone could had sued him for running not-legal copy of AmigaOS 4.0...
I suggested him to remove all...

When I get more lucid I saw that it is just Kickstart awaiting for oiriginal OS 4.0...

However I send you 3 Private Messages Alex advicing you...

Well... It was a nice night and full of good news, after all the bad situation I had in my family recently...

I need to see some good Amiga news for the new year, really I want for something really new and exciting. And these news are coming...

I read three or 4 times all the threads about this success of DBAlex, I also answered all threads but I still need some sleep or I will collapse.

Good Morning for you all and good night for me...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: BooBoo1200 on December 31, 2007, 09:12:28 AM
With all that was going on I forgot to say Well done DBAlex:-)

Would I be correct in saying any MacMini with a G4 at 1.5Ghz would also have the upgraed Radeon 9200 at 64MB not 32MB  
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Amigaz on December 31, 2007, 09:49:44 AM
So does this installer actually let you partition the drive and install OS4 or is it just a thing to show "it can be done, you can boot OS4" like a live cd?

The video is gone btw. was it removed by Amiga inc?  :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2007, 10:08:36 AM
It just gets you to the kickstart screen. It's only a matter of time before someone works out how to boot an OS4 install CD.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: samo79 on December 31, 2007, 10:33:02 AM
@DBAlex

Your video doesn't work, link corrupted ...

http://www.lightwaredesign.co.uk/os4_on_mac_mini.AVI
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2007, 10:35:24 AM
I suspect he took it down to avoid repercussions from AInc.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: humppa on December 31, 2007, 10:37:06 AM
Quote
The video is gone btw. was it removed by Amiga inc?  


Maybe Alex got scared after he got the 3 PMs from Raffaele (which he wrote in a "comatose state") and accordingly removed the video.  :lol:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 31, 2007, 11:19:17 AM
Hehe, hello... Just woke up... Didn't get much sleep though... Heh.

@Raffaele:

Hehe, Thanks for the responses, I replied to your last one...! Nothing to worry about for now I think... :-)

@BooBoo1200:

Thanks! Nope it has to be the mini at either 1.33ghz with 64mb 9200 or the 1.5ghz with the 64mb 9200...! :-)

@AMIGAZ:

No, It wasn't removed by me or Amiga Inc... I've been asleep and in that time my whole hosting has gone down [Im awaiting an email - im guessing ive broke some terms of service... heh...] I'm guessing the hosting couldn't deal with all the traffic...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: humppa on December 31, 2007, 11:24:17 AM
Quote
Thanks! Nope it has to be the mini at either 1.33ghz with 64mb 9200 or the 1.5ghz with the 64mb 9200...!


I don't think that the Ghz should make a difference, only the BIOS version.

Quote
I'm guessing the hosting couldn't deal with all the traffic...


Just upload it to some public webspace.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 31, 2007, 11:27:27 AM
Quote
I don't think that the Ghz should make a difference, only the BIOS version.


Yep but the "secret" speed bump that apple made are the only versions of the mini with the correct bios/firmware... [Until someone else confirms running it on a 1.25ghz or 1.42ghz model ] :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Debaser on December 31, 2007, 11:41:46 AM
Currently no luck on my end - just black screen with option 4 and 5. I have a 1.25 mini w32MB Radeon. Any insight - I would be thankful.

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 31, 2007, 11:55:16 AM
@Debaser:

Tried option 1?

-------------------------------------------------------------

I forgot to tell everyone, also.  All USB devices are recognized (Keyboard + Mouse)... [With option 4 or 5] You obviously knew about the mouse as I got to the early boot screen but just confirming the keyboard works too...! [I can press the caps lock key etc] From looking at the files it also seems that Mass Storage devices can be used... [Boot from a USB key?]

Also, I was fiddling about looking at the files and found out you can also use the command boot cd:\\slb_v2_mm instead of the standard boot cd:\\slb ... The slb_v2_mm is more of a quiet boot, less output on the Open Firmware and it appears to be a little faster...! Also, im going to test plugging in some USB devices today to see if they are shown in Boot Options in the early boot screen.

Alex. :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2007, 12:06:57 PM
Get it while you can (http://www.mashley.net/os4_on_mac_mini.AVI.torrent)

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 31, 2007, 12:22:15 PM
@motorollin

Thanks dude, you finally found out how to make a torrent, hehe!

Yup, grab the video while you can, i've removed my link and the pictures temporarily.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2007, 12:25:22 PM
I will delete the torrent at the end of the day so please re-create new torrents or upload the file to web space or share the file on eMule.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: theformula on December 31, 2007, 12:38:30 PM
you guys are great thanks for this.   :-o  Time to start looking for cheap mini macs


The future of the amiga is mini with the Mini Mig and now the Mini Mac  :-)  :-D  :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: spihunter on December 31, 2007, 12:51:07 PM
Does anyone have a G4 Ibook to try this on.
They had almost the exact same specs as the Mini's

I sold mine last year! Damn! :oops:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 31, 2007, 01:01:37 PM
OK, I just booted the CD again with Option 5 [CDROM MM_Full_Silent_USB] and it booted fine, intrestingly the USB mass storage device (1gb Sandisk Cruzer Micro) isn't recognized as a boot device, but if I don't go to the early boot menu and let the cd boot the flash drive flashes for a few seconds... Which possibly means its looking for files on it?  :-?

Anyway, I don't really want to say any more [Don't want to get into trouble] But i'm gonna try some more "things" in the next couple of days to see if I can push further into getting a more "successful" boot.  :-)

EDIT: also, I found its easy to boot from the USB key in the Open Firmware... You do the following:

setenv boota-device usb:

boot usb:\\

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm also thinking of combining the commands to boot from the CD and then the USB key E.g.:

setenv boota-device cd:
boot cd:\\slb_v2_mm usb:\\

Not completely sure that would work though... Would it just boot from the USB after its finished with the files on the CD?

Hope someone is a bit more clued up on how Open Firmware works and can help me out...  :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: beakster2 on December 31, 2007, 01:15:47 PM
Fantastic work guys!  Thanks to you it looks like we may soon have hardware to run OS4 on!  Once you've got it sorted I will buy a Mac and a legitimate copy of OS4 now that it is on sale! :)

Question though....

You can only do this at the moment on Mac Minis with Machine ID: PowerMac10,2 (Thats the 1.33 and 1.5 GHz version).  That version of the Mini was available with 32MB or 64MB of Video Ram.  Now what is stopping OS4 booting on other Mac models?

Is it OpenFirmware version?  Is it the Machine ID?  Is it the processor speed?  I believe all these things can be spoofed with OpenFirmware commands.  e.g. you should be able to make it think you have 1.5GHz instead of 1.42GHz by typing:
dev /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0
d# 1500000000 encode-int " clock-frequency" property

Ideally I'd like to run OS4 on an old eMac or one of the iMacs with the swivel screen mounted on the dome.  I know its only a matter of time until this is possible, but I just want to understand what the limiting factor is at the moment.

Thanks and keep up the good work! :)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Ohforf on December 31, 2007, 01:16:35 PM
Video at Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vtuSFw97Q)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2007, 01:18:34 PM
Excellent - thank you! I've taken the torrent down.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 31, 2007, 01:26:38 PM
@Ohforf:

Hehe, Thanks, You did something I was too scared to do... everyone go watch now...  :-D [Although its not that amazing :P]

We also need to thank AmigaMac... I hope he turns up or at least gets un-banned from EAB (!)

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: CoolamigaN on December 31, 2007, 01:29:57 PM
Whether he gets unbanned  or not, he shouldn't return there. Enough hostillity on EAB, specially on the thread AmigaMAC user created.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2007, 01:39:22 PM
Quote
CoolamigaN wrote:
Whether he gets unbanned  or not, he shouldn't return there. Enough hostillity on EAB, specially on the thread AmigaMAC user created.

Agreed! I was quite shocked by some of the responses in that thread.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Ohforf on December 31, 2007, 01:45:02 PM
As long as OS4 is not really running, it might still be a Hoax,
or incomplete Work.
It takes a 1337 H4xx0r and a lot of Time to get this one running.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: maffoo on December 31, 2007, 01:50:31 PM
This is making me start to regret selling my Mac Mini a few months back  :-(

With any luck, once it's up and running on a Mac Mini it will only be a matter of time before it's running on other PPC Macs.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: BooBoo1200 on December 31, 2007, 01:51:04 PM
Quote
We also need to thank AmigaMac... I hope he turns up ...................................


Thanks AmigaMac
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: CoolamigaN on December 31, 2007, 01:53:48 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Quote
CoolamigaN wrote:
Whether he gets unbanned  or not, he shouldn't return there. Enough hostillity on EAB, specially on the thread AmigaMAC user created.

Agreed! I was quite shocked by some of the responses in that thread.

--
moto


Yes, I followed your conversation with some people over there and I was very tempted to register just defend you and anybody else that was being attacked out of the blue. Without any real reason, just because they wanted to run OS4...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: A1260 on December 31, 2007, 01:54:23 PM
Unfortunately for you the OS4 fans, that dont seem to understand this not being a hoax is definitely not a very good thing. Instead you are mostly cheering. You all is too stupid to see the big picture. Reminds me of Lemmings.

The probability of new lawsuits materializing between old and new players has greatly increased.

DBAlex has now actually helped Amiga Inc, I think we have not seen any court document on this matter because it has not been proved working, now that Amiga Inc have proof you can expect a document stating HOW Hyperion has NOT been able to protect their IP and moving their Amiga Inc's operating system to another hardware that is not licenced, aka not AmigaOne. Amiga Inc probably have a copy of the leaked iso also.  

Now Hyperion will go down and lose in court and your beloved AOS4.0 will be forever trapped.

Good luck in killing of AOS!!

 :-x
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: cv643d on December 31, 2007, 02:02:52 PM
So what will Bill do with the OS4 code if he wins? Lock it up in a safe and call it a day?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: giZmo350 on December 31, 2007, 02:06:32 PM
OK, I have the 4.2GHz machine with 32MB of VRAM and just get the black screen. I must mention that even 6 months ago (I read this somewhere on the net that long ago), the Moana files where proved on only mini machines with a certain amount vram. From the get go it was said that vram was the whole problem. The whole 32MB of VRAM from Apple was a joke anyway! What can you run with that small amount of vram? I got Lego Star Wars II for xmas and can't even run it 'cause it requires 64MB vram!  :madashell:  What that has to do with the OS4 loader is probably just a matter of vram addressing (needs to start in a different location than the 64MB vram model.

Using option 4 on the loader cd, I did however, manage to get the the 32MB VRAM to initialize to some sort of video mode (white background with blue character font) so something is failing to continue right after video init on the 32MB VRAM model. HINT!

Alex, could you post a thread listing all the different startup commands that you have received from various folks? I will try each of them here on my 32MB VRAM machine.  :-)

Also, someone may want to try to modify vram addressing in the actual loader routines....   :crazy:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 31, 2007, 02:13:41 PM
@gizmo350

Hehe, Sounds about right, although as someone posted earlier I think you can spoof these things so that OS4 can boot on every Mac... I PM'ed the guy but he hasn't responded. (beakster2)

The only commands I have received are the standard ones that everyone has:

setenv boota-device cd:
boot cd:\\slb

I also found out though that:
setenv boota-device cd:
boot cd:\\slb_v2_mm

Also works... and the slb_v2_mm is more of a quiter boot with less Open Firmware output, I don't think it will magically boot your mac if its not the 64mb model though... You can give it a go though.

Im trying to contact beakster2 about spoofing the openfirmware for the boot rom version and the vram [if thats even possible] so far he still hasn't responded though.

Alex.  :-D
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Vlabguy1 on December 31, 2007, 02:17:37 PM
Apple really made a G4 1.5ghz MINI?  I cannot find any info on this machine.
I only found the 1.25, and the 1.42ghz versions.mmm..
I did find info on the 1.5ghz intel Mac Mini..

Please someone clarify, which model is required, and why doesn't the 1.25,1.42 Mac Mini work?  I have a G4 1.67 PowerBook 17"..why wont it work on any of these machines..or even an older G4 @500mhz..
Please someone explain.

Thanks
Rich



Quote

spihunter wrote:
interesting.... Maybe the 1.5ghz G4 64MB Radeon is the "special" Mini it was made for?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: maffoo on December 31, 2007, 02:21:21 PM
Quote

Vlabguy1 wrote:
Apple really made a G4 1.5ghz MINI?  I cannot find any info on this machine.
I only found the 1.25, and the 1.42ghz versions.mmm..
I did find info on the 1.5ghz intel Mac Mini..


There was never officially a 1.5GHz G4 Mini - some people who ordered the 1.42GHz model got the 1.5GHz model instead (with 64MB of video RAM.) See here (http://www.lowendmac.com/mini/late2005.html) for details.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 31, 2007, 02:24:50 PM
Quote
Apple really made a G4 1.5ghz MINI? I cannot find any info on this machine.
I only found the 1.25, and the 1.42ghz versions.mmm..
I did find info on the 1.5ghz intel Mac Mini..

Please someone clarify, which model is required, and why doesn't the 1.25,1.42 Mac Mini work? I have a G4 1.67 PowerBook 17"..why wont it work on any of these machines..or even an older G4 @500mhz..
Please someone explain.

Thanks
Rich


Apple did make this machine, as I own it!

Apple quietly updated the Mini's to an overclocked spec, The 1.25ghz Mini was overclocked to 1.33ghz and the 1.42 boosted to 1.5ghz... They didn't publicize this "secret" speed bump and it was luck if you got one or not [Luckily I did]

I think [I'm talking with beakster2 over PM's now] that the way to boot it on those machines is to spoof the Open Firmware into thinking that your machine is either a 1.33ghz with a 64mb Radeon 9200 or a 1.5ghz with a 64mb Radeon 9200... Im asking beakster2 now if its possible to spoof the vram amount, he says that it IS possible to spoof the CPU spped though (read his post on the previous page)

Alex.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 31, 2007, 02:26:23 PM
Any link to images or videos? All links in the thread ar dead.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: maffoo on December 31, 2007, 02:27:21 PM
Quote

A1260 wrote:
Unfortunately for you the OS4 fans, that dont seem to understand this not being a hoax is definitely not a very good thing. Instead you are mostly cheering. You all is too stupid to see the big picture. Reminds me of Lemmings.

The probability of new lawsuits materializing between old and new players has greatly increased.

DBAlex has now actually helped Amiga Inc, I think we have not seen any court document on this matter because it has not been proved working, now that Amiga Inc have proof you can expect a document stating HOW Hyperion has NOT been able to protect their IP and moving their Amiga Inc's operating system to another hardware that is not licenced, aka not AmigaOne. Amiga Inc probably have a copy of the leaked iso also.  

Now Hyperion will go down and lose in court and your beloved AOS4.0 will be forever trapped.

Good luck in killing of AOS!!

 :-x


OS4 couldn't be in a worse position than it already is (no hardware available for it to run on other than ancient hardware and the occasional second-hand A1.) This could encourage more development for OS4, increasing the market and encouraging AInc to actually release new hardware instead of just promising it. People may then buy the new hardware rather than rely on out-of-production PPC Macs.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: theformula on December 31, 2007, 02:28:56 PM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vtuSFw97Q
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Vlabguy1 on December 31, 2007, 02:35:16 PM
Ok so the Mac Mini..were sold As 1.25, 1.42 respectively..but in reality you might have gotten a 1.33, or 1.5?  interesting..Seems to me that the CPU speed is not really a factor here but rather the 64megs of video ram, which seems to be the common factor here..

And..mm..who knows if 128mb of vram will work, as say with an old G3,G4 mac.

worth trying I suppose.
I bet most people didnt even realize that when buying there 1.25, 1.42 mini..that their machine..might be just a bit faster..
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: BooBoo1200 on December 31, 2007, 02:40:46 PM
Just to clarify the Minis with upgraded CPU  1.33, or 1.5 will always have 64 Mb-vram as well? and never come with 32mb-vram?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on December 31, 2007, 02:44:46 PM
@BooBoo1200

Yup, they all shipped with 64mb.

Alex. :-D

[BTW you can find some of these Mini's for sale on Ebay.co.uk... However don't expect anything big yet, I only have the kernel booting of course... Its gonna take some work to push further]

 
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: giZmo350 on December 31, 2007, 03:09:26 PM
Yea, the whole "silent" upgrade from Apple really chapped my thighs! Shortly after getting my Mini with 256MB of system RAM I realized that I better get cracking on a 1GB stick. It took me a year to get a decent price on ebay. Sure, I could have bought straight from Apple or Kingston, but at a hefty price. You may all want to start looking for 1GB sticks too.

Anyone remember back on 9/12/2005 that I was the first on A.O to ask about OS4 on the MacMini? LOL

Will OS4 run on the MacMini? (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19435)

I also inquired about the final of OS4 running on machines that would require an accelerator (because there just aren't enough Blizzards to go around and that the price of a Blizzard would skyrocket and that it would hurt sales of OS4!). I was told "No, OS4 final will NOT require an accelerator". RIGHT! Well, over two years later, here we are clammoring for hardware!  :lol:  I knew this would happen!

@Alex, I too went to bed late and got up first thing I woke up to check this thread! I'm still in my robe, had 3 ciggys, 3 cups of java and need a shower! HAHAHAHA!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AmiGR on December 31, 2007, 03:10:07 PM
Quote
[BTW you can find some of these Mini's for sale on Ebay.co.uk... However don't expect anything big yet, I only have the kernel booting of course... Its gonna take some work to push further]


Well, if I suddenly find enough money to throw away on a Mini I'll buy a copy of OS4 and try it out. I have enough experience of constructing weird AmigaOS distributions from scratch to handle this, if all drivers work.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: spinal on December 31, 2007, 03:45:38 PM
I only have a 3g imac, no hope for me then :(
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Hans_ on December 31, 2007, 04:03:21 PM
Quote

HenryCase wrote:
@Hans
If UBoot powers up the system and tests it before handing control to OS4, then it already has the hardware drivers loaded, right (otherwise it would limit the tests it could perform)? If the hardware drivers are loaded by UBoot, why would OS4 then go to the trouble of loading them again? If your description is accurate then Hyperion have shot themselves in the foot by not using the most efficient loading method.


No OS (not even windows) uses the BIOS drivers for more than is absolutely necessary. The VGABios is great for displaying text-mode graphics, but not much else. Likewise, the BIOS IDE drivers are pretty much the bare minimum needed to read the disks. These drivers aren't Amiga OS drivers at all. A BIOS's job is to initialize the hardware, provide a means for loading an OS, and then should disappear.

This is completely different from computers such as the classic Amiga, in which the core of the OS is held in ROM, and the machine isn't designed to run any other OS.

Hans
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Hans_ on December 31, 2007, 04:33:49 PM
Quote

A1260 wrote:
Unfortunately for you the OS4 fans, that dont seem to understand this not being a hoax is definitely not a very good thing. Instead you are mostly cheering. You all is too stupid to see the big picture. Reminds me of Lemmings.

The probability of new lawsuits materializing between old and new players has greatly increased.

DBAlex has now actually helped Amiga Inc, I think we have not seen any court document on this matter because it has not been proved working, now that Amiga Inc have proof you can expect a document stating HOW Hyperion has NOT been able to protect their IP and moving their Amiga Inc's operating system to another hardware that is not licenced, aka not AmigaOne. Amiga Inc probably have a copy of the leaked iso also.  

Now Hyperion will go down and lose in court and your beloved AOS4.0 will be forever trapped.

Good luck in killing of AOS!!

 :-x


If Amiga Inc. had any semblance of intelligence, they'd see a demand for Amiga OS4 on any hardware.

BTW, it's not a leaked copy of OS4; we know that it contains - apparently old versions of - Moana code, but we don't know if it's an actual project Moana ISO (I doubt it). Claiming that Hyperion is covertly shifting their OS to another system is a real stretch. Added to this, no-one's managed to swipe any OS4 source-code; the ISO contains binaries only. There is no software company in existence that has managed to prevent the unauthorized spread of binaries.

Hans
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2007, 04:54:48 PM
Quote
A1260 wrote:
Good luck in killing of AOS!!

 :-x

Oh give it a rest. AmigaOS is already dead unless some of the talented developers in Amiga world can run it. If those people can't get hold of an A1 or a PPC board then that's not going to happen. OS4 running on cheaper hardware is the only way it's got a chance.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Zac67 on December 31, 2007, 05:19:51 PM
Actually, enabling additional hardware to run AOS4 breathes some new life into the platform - with so few PPC boards around.

AI just don't like it, because that way it destroys the market for their overpriced (A1) or vapor (ACK) hardware dongles.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2007, 05:21:12 PM
Quote
Zac67 wrote:
Actually, enabling additional hardware to run AOS4 breathes some new life into the platform - with so few PPC boards around.

My point exactly :-)

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: spihunter on December 31, 2007, 05:27:36 PM
@1260,

Explain to me how not allowing 75% of your potential user base to use your new OS in an already tiny market is a good thing?

Our "beloved" AOS 4.0 cannot get any more trapped then it is right now!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: MarkWatson on December 31, 2007, 05:28:53 PM
This is exciting stuff. Shame its not official, but if it sells more AmigaOS 4 copies thats a good thing...

I have high hopes for my PowerMac Mirror Drive Door Dual 1.25... Its got a Radeon 9000Pro and 64MB VRAM. I expect it won't init the 2nd CPU and there are numerous other slight hardware differences under the hood, but its pretty similar on the surface. Depends how much it hits it and how much it relies on openfirmware etc for init. Anyone tried one?

Just to clarify, because I'm a bit swamped by posts here. Its a patch to the Classic edition right?

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: humppa on December 31, 2007, 05:36:11 PM
Quote
Shame its not official, but if it sells more AmigaOS 4 copies thats a good thing...


Provided that it even runs with the Classic-version of OS4.
AFAIK, the A1-version of OS4 isn't/never was on sale (only bundled with the hw).
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2007, 05:36:31 PM
Quote
MarkWatson wrote:
Just to clarify, because I'm a bit swamped by posts here. Its a patch to the Classic edition right?

No. It's a bootloader to get the OS4 kernel up and running. As you can see in the video this leaves you at an Amiga kickstart screen. What will subsequently boot is yet unknown (OS4 Classic? OS4 A1? Nothing?).

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on December 31, 2007, 05:46:05 PM
Quote
AI just don't like it, because that way it destroys the market for their overpriced (A1) or vapor (ACK) hardware dongles.


That and piracy of their OS. I doubt they are too concerned with A1 owners booting the OS4 up on a mini-Mac, but the piracy of their OS by those not owning a A1 should be of high concern to them.  I expect to see emergency petitions going to the Federal court sometime this week by AI and Itec.

Dammy
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2007, 05:47:57 PM
Quote
dammy wrote:
Quote
AI just don't like it, because that way it destroys the market for their overpriced (A1) or vapor (ACK) hardware dongles.

That and piracy of their OS. I doubt they are too concerned with A1 owners booting the OS4 up on a mini-Mac, but the piracy of their OS by those not owning a A1 should be of high concern to them.  I expect to see emergency petitions going to the Federal court sometime this week by AI and Itec.

This boot CD is useless without an actual copy of OS4. It just lets you boot OS4 itself.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on December 31, 2007, 05:51:08 PM
Quote
This boot CD is useless without an actual copy of OS4. It just lets you boot OS4 itself.


Guess if there is no OS4 on ftp or bittorrent, it's all safe. :-D

Dammy
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on December 31, 2007, 05:54:14 PM
Quote
dammy wrote:
Guess if there is no OS4 on ftp or bittorrent, it's all safe. :-D

Well I don't know whether there is or not. All I'm saying is that this particular doesn't contain OS4. It might have bits of it, but nothing useful for anything other than launching the kernel. Sourcing the OS itself is a separate task.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: EDanaII on December 31, 2007, 06:02:23 PM
@ dammy:
Quote
That and piracy of their OS. I doubt they are too concerned with A1 owners booting the OS4 up on a mini-Mac, but the piracy of their OS by those not owning a A1 should be of high concern to them. I expect to see emergency petitions going to the Federal court sometime this week by AI and Itec.


What you say could very well be true, but... wouldn't it be nice if AI actually did something FOR their users instead of constantly frustrating them? What a concept!

Ed.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: amigadave on December 31, 2007, 06:23:01 PM
Quote

dammy wrote:
Quote
AI just don't like it, because that way it destroys the market for their overpriced (A1) or vapor (ACK) hardware dongles.


That and piracy of their OS. I doubt they are too concerned with A1 owners booting the OS4 up on a mini-Mac, but the piracy of their OS by those not owning a A1 should be of high concern to them.  I expect to see emergency petitions going to the Federal court sometime this week by AI and Itec.

Dammy


How do you equate this bootloader with piracy of their OS?  

Also, has it been confirmed which version of OS4 will work with this MacMini bootloader?  If it is the version that runs on a Classic Amiga w/PPC that is currently for sale I will place my order today in hopes that the bootloader will continue to be worked on until it is able to work with many more models of PPC Macs.  I have a 1ghz PowerBook that needs repairs that I would love to run OS4 on.

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: giZmo350 on December 31, 2007, 06:47:49 PM
@Alex....

My machine being Boot ROM Version: 4.8.9f1 stops the loader because it can't find devs\usb\hcd\ohci.usbhcd_deb

And that would make sense as there is no file devs\usb\hcd\ohci.usbhcd_deb

Just,

devs\usb\hcd\ohci.usbhcd
devs\usb\hcd\ohci.usbhcd_safe

Any ideas?

It then trys to start the Exec at address 00000000

Unable to load kernal
Exiting second level booter
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: maffoo on December 31, 2007, 06:48:19 PM
Quote

humppa wrote:
Quote
Shame its not official, but if it sells more AmigaOS 4 copies thats a good thing...


Provided that it even runs with the Classic-version of OS4.
AFAIK, the A1-version of OS4 isn't/never was on sale (only bundled with the hw).


My gut feeling is that if it ever boots OS4 it will be the A1 version. I suspect (not based on any real knowledge, just a gut feeling which I hope is wrong) the Classic version will expect to see custom chips.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: monami on December 31, 2007, 07:33:02 PM
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4143

rather strangely it's for the least sold mini? it certainly got us all exited over getting os4... clever!!! :-(
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: BooBoo1200 on December 31, 2007, 07:38:26 PM
Quote
If it is the version that runs on a Classic Amiga w/PPC that is currently for sale I will place my order today in hopes that the bootloader will continue to be worked on until it is able to work with many more models of PPC Macs. I have a 1ghz PowerBook that needs repairs that I would love to run OS4 on.

:-) Same Here

Im eager to find out what happens but if we already have the kernal maybe Os4 classic will work?

@gizmo350

Hi probably wont work but have you tried maybe editing the ISO and renameing devs\usb\hcd\ohci.usbhcd or devs\usb\hcd\ohci.usbhcd_safe to devs\usb\hcd\ohci.usbhcd_deb who knows :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AeroMan on December 31, 2007, 07:44:09 PM
Well guys,

      Now it is 17:37 PM Brasilian time, I'm really loving all this discussion, but I will take a bath, grab my family and go to my grandma's house where I will eat and drink like a big fat pig and wait for the new year.
      Happy 2008 for everybody, and hope that everybody in this thread will be an AmigaMini, err.... Mac Mini user very soon.

      See you next year,
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Raffaele on December 31, 2007, 09:43:50 PM
Quote

humppa wrote:
Quote
The video is gone btw. was it removed by Amiga inc?  


Maybe Alex got scared after he got the 3 PMs from Raffaele (which he wrote in a "comatose state") and accordingly removed the video.  :lol:


Nope... Me too want to download that video and see it but it was already broken or removed link...

I come back home at 2:15am yesterday, I gor some food, and I start digging internet at 3:00?, 3:20? am to discover if DBAlex had htested it or not, and proof ONCE AND FOR ALL if that loader was a fake or a real thing...

Well... Now we all could affirm that seems that it was a real thing...

But sure at 3:00 of night, full of sleep needing, I navigated and I wrote the PM to DBAlex really in a sort of comatose state, posting the phrases sort of this:

Attention please...............(I closed eyes)...............DBAlex.....(Yawn)......I saw you posted........(OH geez what he posted? Do not remember...)... .........screens of OS 4.0........(SNORT!).........that sure are illegal.......(EH?)......and you could be sued for that....

Because I saw the images of the Kickstart and I was so intoxicated by sleep, that I believed these were images of OS 4.0...

I started believing that the loader had just a copy of pirated OS 4.0 autostarting as a live CD, and I fell afraid that DbAlex could be could be sued for the images he posted...

Fortunately those screenshots I saw and I was uncapable to recognize correctly were just images of Kickstart... NO OS 4.0 at all...                                                      

And DBAlex he was just incidentally a person who had the hardware needed to perform the test..

And DBALex just was asked by many people here on this forum (me too) to test the alien loader on his machine, because we all want to prove if that loader was a real thing or a fake...  :rtfm:

He could not be held responsible if the loader we asked him to test, then functioned and revealed to be a working version of something we could n't still affirm being a real loader or nothing impotant ...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: A1260 on December 31, 2007, 10:00:22 PM
read here you pirates!...

taken from aw.net

Quote
Hi.

Regarding the thread about the project Moana files, I'd like to point out some facts that I would like to acknowledge as an AW.net moderator.
First of all, I'm the author of said port, done over an year ago on behalf of ACube, you can contact me directly at email removed .

In the thread I'm referring to, you (and others) are discussing the content of the CD, some even had it running on MacMinis. Such ISO image not only contains parts of OS4 (a commercial product) but also contain modules that are NOT part of either OS4 for A1 nor Classic, and are fully copyrighted by me. I never gave permission to anyone, least this AmigaMac guy, to distribute these files. So owning and using those modules is breaching my intellectual property (IP) and is a clear act of piracy.
So unless Aw.net is a forum which allows and is favorable to piracy, I suggest you post a notice on said thread and stop discussing about it. You can quote this message if you want.

As you probably have seen by the european lawsuit, between me, the two Friedens and against Hyperion and AInc, I'm more than willing to protect my IP from piracy or any other form of unauthorized use.

For the record, that ISO image was obtained from a stolen laptop and there is a police report about that (in the USA). That AmigaMac guy is not some benefactor, he's a criminal.

So far I hadn't written or posted anything because I didn't want to stir up more mess that it was already, and because the (micro) kernel on that ISO image will crash after few minutes of intensive use.

But seeing one of the moderators of Aw.net happily displaying a list of stolen files seems an endorsement of piracy from AW.net. I can't let it pass.


read more here -> http://tinyurl.com/39mseh

 :angry:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: giZmo350 on December 31, 2007, 10:00:35 PM
@BooBoo1200

Well, I copied the files back from the CD that I created the ISO from, to a folder on my desktop. Then copied devs\usb\hcd\ohci.usbhcd to my desktop, added the extension to create devs\usb\hcd\ohci.usbhcd_deb (I left _safe and .usbhcd there and just added _deb - cause I want to try both and the loader might need both the old ones).

I then simply burned another CD from the folder but now the loader won't even load and says that the environment is to too small. Do I need to create another ISO from the newly created folder then reburn that ISO to CD to get it to work? Are there some hidden files that I can't see? (Yes, I have "see all hidden files" turned on in WinXP.

Anyhoo....  I'm done messing with this today to get ready for the New Year's festivities!  :-D  I'll report back more tomorrow (or the next day - depending on how I feel tomorrow! hahahahahaha!

Happy New Year all!   :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Zac67 on December 31, 2007, 10:31:17 PM
If anyone still cares for the video - I've put it on our company FTP server.

host: ftpfs.psyma.com
user: mig
pwd: mini
file: os4_on_mac_mini.avi
ACTIVE mode only (passive seems to be broken currently)
Don't try to use a browser, they all do passive xfer.

Happy new 2008! ;-)

@gizmo
Dunno about Open Firmware machines, but Wintels require a custom boot block on the disk...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Krusher on January 01, 2008, 02:38:34 AM
Zac67: ACTIVE mode gives: Connection closed with server
An error occured listing the directory.

FileZilla 2.0.4.1

Anywho, happy New Year, may the Amiga be with y'all  :-D
Great year ahead, Minimig, possibe Apple Mini running OS4, it's been a long time that hardware is Amiga compatible.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: TheMagicM on January 01, 2008, 03:32:33 AM
you could get sued for posting a picture or video of a OS running on a different machine?  Who would actually take that case??? LOL

I'd put it all over the web, putfile, youtube and other sources..  lol
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Jeff on January 01, 2008, 04:50:54 AM
Tested on another machine and failed. I didn't think it would work, but it was worth a try. G4 Digital Audio 533;

CPU clock freq description set to 1500 as above
Boot from CD slb_v2_mm and chose option 3 (best results) slb crashed totally.

slb_v2_mm boots all the way up to the point where it says

Killing OF
Loading ExecSG and then goes no farther.

Oh well, sounds like 08 might be an interesting year.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: peroxidechicken on January 01, 2008, 06:09:52 AM
Wead here you piwats!  

I'm a big girl's blouse stepping out in full hissyfit and evewyone must compute exactwy as I do.  Ner!  So there!  

Tsk tsk to everwyone!!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Raffaele on January 01, 2008, 09:54:35 AM
Quote

A1260 wrote:
Unfortunately for you the OS4 fans, that dont seem to understand this not being a hoax is definitely not a very good thing. Instead you are mostly cheering. You all is too stupid to see the big picture. Reminds me of Lemmings.

The probability of new lawsuits materializing between old and new players has greatly increased.


A smart firm (but unfortunately Amiga firms are not THAT smart) who want to enter the profitable market of second hand Macintosh machines, then it will avoid any lawsuits...

Instead of that this firm have one great chance...

They could accept the situation that it was stolen an incomplete (fortunately) AmigaOS on Mac hardware loader, and this is better than any advertising campaign to publicize the world that it exisits such a software product...

This will increase future sells of Amiga loaders in Macintosh market...

Also they will renounce the lawsuits BUT they will hire a contract with the producers of the loader in order to let them COMPLETE it...

(actually the loader it is incomplete AND ALMOST UNUSABLE)

Then this hypotetical firm will make an agreement with the OS manufacturers, in order to let them realize an OS running on that loader...

They will gain some % extra royalties (percent extra royalties) from the contract, renouncing publicly to any lawsuit... :idea:

(The owners of IP will gain extra money royalties as amend to any damages they could have suffered)

More money in their pockets... lesser spending for lawyers and related expenses...

At least all the three firms could sell the "OS + Loader" package into second hand macintosh PPC market, and earn lots of money...

A smart firm will perform all these moves QUICKLY...

Before any macitosh pirate could hack the loader and let it run really and then pirate AmigaOS...

Quote

DBAlex has now actually helped Amiga Inc, I think we have not seen any court document on this matter because it has not been proved working, now that Amiga Inc have proof you can expect a document stating HOW Hyperion has NOT been able to protect their IP and moving their Amiga Inc's operating system to another hardware that is not licenced, aka not AmigaOne. Amiga Inc probably have a copy of the leaked iso also.


So what? They never moved to another hardware publicly...

The loader was just a proof of concept...


More... It is incomplete, and stating from Bill McEwen evidences, Amiga Inc. already knew this loader existed.  

If I were Amiga Inc., then I start thinking all the money they could earn from royalties, instead thjan sue in court trial Hyperion...

Also if I were in Amiga INc. shoes, then I will contact the author and grant him a very lucrative contract :rtfm: and hire him in the Amiga Inc. Team...

If Andrea Vallinotto succeded in realizing the AmigaOS on Mac Kernel, then HE IS THE BEST PROGRAMMER EVER...

He who made this loader deserves all our RESPECT!

He realized what none believed it was possible... Running AmigaOS on Mac!  :-o

(http://www.oldgamesitalia.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/hail.gif) (http://www.oldgamesitalia.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/hail.gif) (http://www.oldgamesitalia.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/hail.gif)

An intelligent businessman do not sue such a great programmer for having lost (being stolen) his laptop with all Moana job-in-progress files in it...

Instead of that... an intelligent businessman will hire such a great programmer, letting him enter his major development team (maybe AmigaOS 5 made in Amiga India???) and letting him create new things, new programs, new kernels, using all his p0waa l33t 5k1llz of great coder.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: skurk on January 01, 2008, 10:48:02 AM
Here's the video on video.google.com: clicky (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2155359085773319786)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AmiGR on January 01, 2008, 01:19:32 PM
Quote
If Andrea Vallinotto succeded in realizing the AmigaOS on Mac Kernel, then HE IS THE BEST PROGRAMMER EVER...

He who made this loader deserves all our RESPECT!

He realized what none believed it was possible... Running AmigaOS on Mac!


Who exactly believed that it was not possible? In fact, many people were saying it was very very very possible and certain OS4 developers were saying that it's too much work without docs, difficult, etc. Perhaps you did not believe it was possible.

Anyway, I am not about to claim that I could port it myself, but best programmer ever for porting the AmigaOS 4 boot loader to Open Firmware and adapting the HAL for the Mini's hardware is not exactly an insane programming feat. In fact, it's exactly why the OS has a boot loader and a HAL in the first place, instead of being tied to the hardware and firmware.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AndrewBell on January 01, 2008, 01:28:55 PM
Quote

AmiGR wrote:
best programmer ever for porting the AmigaOS 4 boot loader to Open Firmware and adapting the HAL for the Mini's hardware is not exactly an insane programming feat.


Best is a relative term. Besides, sometimes it's not what you do, it's how much your work is appreciated.
________
Star craft replays (http://screplays.com/)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AmiGR on January 01, 2008, 01:40:07 PM
Quote
Best is a relative term. Besides, sometimes it's not what you do, it's how much your work is appreciated.


True. And AV's work sure is appreciated. I'm just saying that Raffaele doesn't always need to go to such extremes.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Zac67 on January 01, 2008, 01:47:20 PM
@Krusher

Your firewall might not allow the backward data connection from the server. Active does work, but may not in your specific configuration (that's why passive mode was invented). :-/
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: HenryCase on January 01, 2008, 02:33:50 PM
Quote
A1260 wrote:
Now Hyperion will go down and lose in court and your beloved AOS4.0 will be forever trapped.

Good luck in killing of AOS!!


This development doesn't have any affect on the AInc vs Hyperion cases...

1. AInc already knew about Project Moana's existence (which is what we could have the code for here).
2. Hyperion have never publicly endorsed Moana, the work was done by ACube, who had access to the source code as a trusted partner/developer. Therefore, Hyperion have nothing to do with this, and it won't affect the outcome of the court cases.

Quote
A1260 wrote:
read here you pirates!...


May I be the first to say: I don't care!

Piracy is only bad when there are negative consequences. Who is losing out here? AInc get the potential for more OS4 development, ACube and Hyperion get the potential for more OS4 sales. The code may have been stolen from the original author, but I don't completely understand why he is annoyed about its release, as he could never have released it himself (AInc wouldn't have endorsed it) and so his work would have gone to waste.

Quote
Hans wrote:
The VGABios is great for displaying text-mode graphics, but not much else. Likewise, the BIOS IDE drivers are pretty much the bare minimum needed to read the disks. These drivers aren't Amiga OS drivers at all.


Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me Hans, I've still got a lot to learn about computer architecture.

Okay, so the main focus of our research efforts should be on deconstructing the HAL. Could we use a PC Oscilloscope (such as this one: http://www.picotech.com/highperformance-oscilloscopes.html) to probe the control and data lines of an A1 to construct a picture of how the HAL works, or is there an easier way?

@Everyone
Will this allow everyone without a Mac to try the OS4 bootloader?
http://mac-on-linux.sourceforge.net/
Are there any other VM solutions we could use?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on January 01, 2008, 02:58:00 PM
Quote
1. AInc already knew about Project Moana's existence (which is what we could have the code for here).


Which was kept in closed developement and not leaked to the public.  Now it's leaked, so it is Hyperion's problem.

Quote
2. Hyperion have never publicly endorsed Moana, the work was done by ACube, who had access to the source code as a trusted partner/developer. Therefore, Hyperion have nothing to do with this, and it won't affect the outcome of the court cases.


No, it should be Hyperion's issue as they authorized Acube access to AI's IP.  Hyperion went out on a limb, which has now snapped off.  Hyperion could in turn sue Acube, but I doubt they will do that. AI, OTOH, could sue both Hyperion (already doing so) and Acube for the careless handling of their IP and revoking all contracts (which they did).

So yes, this should have an impact on the court case as this gives base to AI's claims of being an injured party.

Dammy
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Colani1200 on January 01, 2008, 03:52:05 PM
Well, the fact that the ISO was indeed stolen and leaked from the Moana project makes it rather worthless for the community I guess.

I really was hoping that it was not Moana. This would have meant that somebody had been able to build it without access to the OS4 source (by reverse engineering the OS4 kernel etc. etc.), and that development could continue on this, more supported platforms were to come and so on. This won't happen in the situation we have now.

BTW: Who is stupid enough to run around with an unencrypted laptop which contains stuff like this?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: AndrewBell on January 01, 2008, 03:53:19 PM
Quote

AmiGR wrote:
I'm just saying that Raffaele doesn't always need to go to such extremes.


Considering that this software could help to alleviate the dire shortage of suitable hardware, some may think it's worthy of extreme praise.
________
Marijuana Vaporizer (http://weedvaporizer.info/)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on January 01, 2008, 04:09:09 PM
Quote
Considering that this software could help to alleviate the dire shortage of suitable hardware, some may think it's worthy of extreme praise.


For those A1 owners already own a legal OS4 PPC copy, that's wonderful news for them.  For anything else, this is just going to facilitate piracy and obviously someone has violated AI's IP rights.  When you deal with closed sourced software, you have to agree to abide by their rules, like it or not.

Dammy
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: A1260 on January 01, 2008, 04:11:14 PM
this is a niche market and a hobby os the companies behind it need to make a living you know, this is not the way to do it. while you other here dont care and think this will be the solution to shortage of suitable hardware. for a little time it may be true but then these few mac's that run this will be old and very popular on ebay, we will again have ridiculous high prices and people start whining. as this aint enough there will not be any new updates of the aos because you killed of the business for these small companies like hyperion. what then? you ever thing of it?... so continue with your greedy ways of wanting everything free and act like children. when aos4.0 is dead its your fault, period!.

  :-x
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: HenryCase on January 01, 2008, 04:29:55 PM
Quote
dammy wrote:
No, it should be Hyperion's issue as they authorized Acube access to AI's IP.


But did they break the terms of the contract?

Look at page 31 of this document:
http://merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/35-5decmcewenexhibit5show_case_doc.pdf

Discussing Moana, Bill McEwan says:
"How do you have access to OS 4 source code?"

Nicola Morocutti replies:
"We don't have direct access to the source... we are working with some Italian OS4 developers and with Hyperion as well."

Nicola goes on to say that Hyperion had only really acted as consultants. Show me the part of Hyperion's contract where this consultation is illegal.

Quote
A1260 wrote:
as this aint enough there will not be any new updates of the aos because you killed of the business for these small companies like hyperion.


This is the core of your argument, but it's also the part you've got most wrong. Amiga users (in 2008) understand that a purchase of OS4 would be necessary to keep development going. People will purchase OS4 to run it on a Mac (if we can boot into Workbench). Hyperion makes more money if we can get this working, making future OS4 development MORE likely.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Krusher on January 01, 2008, 04:32:18 PM
I'm shure a few people are scratching their heads why they didn't release OS4 for Mac in the first place, considering the  amount of interest the leaked bootloader has gotten. I myself AM very interested in a product like that, I'm even considering buying the G4 Mac the leaked iso runs on (I found the 1.52ghz version)
So no, this is not about piracy (it's officialy an NON existing product anyway) and it's far from finished, but's all about the hobby.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Colani1200 on January 01, 2008, 04:35:37 PM
Quote

A1260 wrote:
so continue with your greedy ways of wanting everything free and act like children. when aos4.0 is dead its your fault, period!


Where did you read that and what does this have to do with topic? I think all Amiga users would be happy if there were products to buy!?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: maffoo on January 01, 2008, 04:42:23 PM
Quote

A1260 wrote:
this is a niche market and a hobby os the companies behind it need to make a living you know, this is not the way to do it. while you other here dont care and think this will be the solution to shortage of suitable hardware. for a little time it may be true but then these few mac's that run this will be old and very popular on ebay, we will again have ridiculous high prices and people start whining. as this aint enough there will not be any new updates of the aos because you killed of the business for these small companies like hyperion. what then? you ever thing of it?... so continue with your greedy ways of wanting everything free and act like children. when aos4.0 is dead its your fault, period!.

  :-x


I really don't understand your logic. The companies concerned are making NO money out of OS4 because there is NO hardware for it to run on, and NO prospect of hardware in the near future. By ensuring that OS4 runs on existing hardware (admittedly a couple of years old now, but that's nothing considering the age of the hardware OS4 Classic runs on) the number of OS4 machines out there will increase, resulting in more development for the platform, creating a market for new (and authorised) hardware.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on January 01, 2008, 04:46:56 PM
Quote
Quote:

    dammy wrote:
    No, it should be Hyperion's issue as they authorized Acube access to AI's IP.



But did they break the terms of the contract?

Look at page 31 of this document:
http://merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/35-5decmcewenexhibit5show_case_doc.pdf

Discussing Moana, Bill McEwan says:
"How do you have access to OS 4 source code?"

Nicola Morocutti replies:
"We don't have direct access to the source... we are working with some Italian OS4 developers and with Hyperion as well."

Nicola goes on to say that Hyperion had only really acted as consultants. Show me the part of Hyperion's contract where this consultation is illegal.


Reread what I said please as I didn't say it was illegal contractually for Hyperion to work with OS4 Devs.   Hyperion did have a responsibility to make reasonable and prudent safe guards of their partner's IP when dealing with third parties which seems not to have happened in this situtation.   That is what AI can hammer Hyperion on.

Dammy
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: HenryCase on January 01, 2008, 05:12:06 PM
Quote
dammy wrote:
Reread what I said please as I didn't say it was illegal contractually for Hyperion to work with OS4 Devs.   Hyperion did have a responsibility to make reasonable and prudent safe guards of their partner's IP when dealing with third parties which seems not to have happened in this situtation.   That is what AI can hammer Hyperion on.


Dammy, we're not going to agree on Hyperion's responsibility for Moana until we can examine the relevant contract(s). Do you know where we can obtain these documents? I tried to download documents from this website:
http://tinyurl.com/394ump
Keep on getting "500 - Internal Server Error".
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: beakster2 on January 01, 2008, 05:33:24 PM
Quote

HenryCase wrote:
http://mac-on-linux.sourceforge.net/
Are there any other VM solutions we could use?


PearPC is the one I was thinking of using to have a play with it.  It doesn't have a full Open Firmware implementation, but if it can run OS X, then OS4 should be easy with a bit of hacking.

I for one have been wanting to buy OS4 even since I used a development 68k version back in 2003.  An AmigaOne was out of my price range then, and I sold my BlizzardPPC back in 2000.  I've been waiting over 4 years to buy OS4, enough is enough.  If I can get it working on my PC under emulation, or on an old Mac I'll pay Hyperion for a copy and do it.  Otherwise God know how much longer Amiga Inc will keep us waiting for new hardware.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on January 01, 2008, 06:00:57 PM
Quote
I for one have been wanting to buy OS4 even since I used a development 68k version back in 2003. An AmigaOne was out of my price range then, and I sold my BlizzardPPC back in 2000. I've been waiting over 4 years to buy OS4, enough is enough. If I can get it working on my PC under emulation, or on an old Mac I'll pay Hyperion for a copy and do it. Otherwise God know how much longer Amiga Inc will keep us waiting for new hardware.


Accept they can not sell it to you.  The only way legally for you to do so is to buy a A1, working or other wise.  Else, your committing an illegal act of piracy.

Dammy
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: beakster2 on January 01, 2008, 06:11:59 PM
Why can't I buy the Classic version from Amikit?  Admittedly it will need some playing with, but everything should be there to get it working.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on January 01, 2008, 06:27:22 PM
Quote
Why can't I buy the Classic version from Amikit? Admittedly it will need some playing with, but everything should be there to get it working.


I'll admit that is possible, although highly remote you would be ever able to get a OS for PPC/68K custom chipset combo to work on a alien G4 system without source code.

Dammy
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Vlabguy1 on January 01, 2008, 06:39:10 PM
Well I would much rather run Amiga OS4 on the macs that I own, including my
G4 PowerBook 17"..now that would be sweet!!

Long Live Amiga
Rich
ny
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Hans_ on January 01, 2008, 08:56:40 PM
Quote

HenryCase wrote:
Quote
Hans wrote:
The VGABios is great for displaying text-mode graphics, but not much else. Likewise, the BIOS IDE drivers are pretty much the bare minimum needed to read the disks. These drivers aren't Amiga OS drivers at all.


Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me Hans, I've still got a lot to learn about computer architecture.

Okay, so the main focus of our research efforts should be on deconstructing the HAL. Could we use a PC Oscilloscope (such as this one: http://www.picotech.com/highperformance-oscilloscopes.html) to probe the control and data lines of an A1 to construct a picture of how the HAL works, or is there an easier way?


A much easier way would be to use a disassembler on the kernel and loader, and examine the resulting assembly code, comparing it to the hardware documentation. Either way, it would take a considerable amount of effort as disassembled code is much less understandable than the original code. We're talking about thousands of lines of PowerPC assembly here.

Hyperion have stated that they're committed to expanding the amount of hardware that OS4 will run on. I hope that they can deliver, despite the lawsuits. They have the source code and the expertise, and they don't have to reverse engineer anything.

Hans
 
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: HenryCase on January 02, 2008, 01:23:03 AM
Quote
Hans_ wrote:
Hyperion have stated that they're committed to expanding the amount of hardware that OS4 will run on. I hope that they can deliver, despite the lawsuits. They have the source code and the expertise, and they don't have to reverse engineer anything.


I hope Hyperion do continue to develop OS4 in the way you describe, but I'm looking for solutions the community can implement to get us out of this legal mess.

How about an OS4 implementation layer for AROS? It wouldn't be as much work as when the AROS team started with OS 3.1 compatibility, as it could be built on top of the existing work. The OS4 SDK has been released, wouldn't an AROS implementation of this be enough to run OS4 apps?

With OS4 support built into AROS we free ourselves from not being able to develop apps for the platform, as well as giving ourselves many more hardware choices. If when the court case is finished, and new OS4 hardware is released, we will have a whole bunch of ready made apps that we wouldn't have otherwise.

Do you think we should start a bounty for OS4 AROS?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Plaz on January 02, 2008, 02:46:11 AM
Quote
I'm shure a few people are scratching their heads why they didn't release OS4 for Mac in the first place,


I'm sure that AI sees potential in many market places that it would like to keep to itself. What I don't understand about AI is why they don't take advantage of these markets and profit by selling new licenses to exploit markets like these old Macs.

If AI truely was able to write OS5 on it's own, it would do so and make the current lawsuit all about yanking Hyperion's license. Instead they seem to be trying to get the OS4 source as well. Why? Are they unable to write OS5 without it? (many of us think so). Or are they just trying to make sure OS4 source doesn't get out into the wild as moana appears to have done. I agree that OS4 (at least the kickstart kernel) on Mac doesn't help Hyperion's case.

Plaz
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Hans_ on January 02, 2008, 03:24:04 AM
Quote

HenryCase wrote:
How about an OS4 implementation layer for AROS? It wouldn't be as much work as when the AROS team started with OS 3.1 compatibility, as it could be built on top of the existing work. The OS4 SDK has been released, wouldn't an AROS implementation of this be enough to run OS4 apps?


AROS was about source-compatibility so OS4 apps won't run unless recompiled for AROS on whatever processor AROS is running on. That's ignoring the endianness issues of-course. As you've already realized, it would also be a big job.

They could replicate the OS4 API, but IIRC, they don't like OS4's new library interfaces concept. Plus it looks as though they're starting to deviate from the 3.1 API and developing their own ones. You could try, but I'd expect considerable resistance from the current AROS devs.

Hans
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Crumb on January 02, 2008, 10:45:47 AM
@Hans

this could be interesting too
http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/index.php?number=31 (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/index.php?number=31)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: HenryCase on January 02, 2008, 01:23:43 PM
@Hans
I would be interested in using AROS as a platform for creating new apps (that would run on AROS and OS4) so recompiling wouldn't be a problem. Anything that makes porting between the two systems would be beneficial. Would the endianness really have that much affect? After all, 68K endianness is different to x86 endianness but that didn't stop OS 3.1 being recreated.

I'd like to ask the AROS devs to see if they are interested, but I'd like to know I wasn't the only one interested in OS4 compatibility in AROS first.

@Crumb
Must have overlooked that bounty before, thanks for bringing it in to this discussion.
Never realised there was an OS4 emulator for MorphOS. At the moment it's not complete but a port of it in its current state to AROS would be a great start, work could be done to improve compatibility later. Here's the current compatibility list:
http://amigazeux.net/os4emu/comp.php
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Hans_ on January 02, 2008, 02:15:15 PM
Quote

HenryCase wrote:
@Hans
I would be interested in using AROS as a platform for creating new apps (that would run on AROS and OS4) so recompiling wouldn't be a problem. Anything that makes porting between the two systems would be beneficial. Would the endianness really have that much affect? After all, 68K endianness is different to x86 endianness but that didn't stop OS 3.1 being recreated.


The endianness issue isn't as big as some people think, or as insignificant as others think. Basically, even with source compatibility, some code is endian-specific. This is usually code to load/save data or send it over a network (assuming that you're not writing device drivers). It means that a simple compile won't just get it working. Something like a DVD writer app that communicates with a DVD drive needs slight variations of certain code depending on the processor endianness. Other manifestations of this are the colours of an image being wrong, or audio sounding really noisy.

Hans
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: arnljot on January 02, 2008, 03:54:11 PM
I don't think AROS should divert their limited resources away from the milestones they've already set.

I think the way forward for OS4 is to get the legal issues sorted out. And meanwhile expand to new hardware.

Who ever wins the court case is (to me) almost irrelevant. If Hyperion wins they'll for sure continue the work they've already started and partially proved they're able to do. A bit more uncertain with AINC, but if they win it will be a catalyst for the community and to AINC to do more definitive moves for a future platform. Maybe it would be fantastic news for AROS and MOS? Who knows...

So even the MAC OS4 kernel is tainted fruits, I'm glad its out in one way: It inspired a few folks. But I think that the way forward for us should be emmulation/virtualization (PearPC or own open firmware for macs "faking" an AmigaOne).

---
On a side note I'm glad that AORG is one of the few forums where we can spend time discussing OS4 without being labled as futile/stupid (ref EAB) or lacking geenes (ref Moo Bunny)

I couldn't help but try to explain myself on EAB:
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=383422&postcount=46
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: monami on January 02, 2008, 04:11:28 PM
the last time i tried pear pc. it needed an aweful lot of tinkering with. enough to put anyone off...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: BooBoo1200 on January 02, 2008, 05:42:00 PM
@DBAlex or anyone else Hows it going have you managed to progress any further?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Fats on January 02, 2008, 07:44:37 PM
Quote

Hans_ wrote:

AROS was about source-compatibility so OS4 apps won't run unless recompiled for AROS on whatever processor AROS is running on. That's ignoring the endianness issues of-course. As you've already realized, it would also be a big job.


AROS was about binary compatibility on m68k and source compatbility for non-amiga CPUs.

Quote

They could replicate the OS4 API, but IIRC, they don't like OS4's new library interfaces concept. Plus it looks as though they're starting to deviate from the 3.1 API and developing their own ones. You could try, but I'd expect considerable resistance from the current AROS devs.


I don't see why there would be a big resistance from the developers if somebody makes an OS4 compatible AROS version. The mentality is that each developer should be able to do with the open-source source code what he likes. That is the spirit.
I myself am a core AROS developer and I do plan in the future to make two PPC versions of AROS possible. One binary compatible with MorhOS and one compatible with OS4. First I want to finish the i386 ABI though.
One of the biggest hurdles IMO for true OS4 compatibility is an open-source Reaction implementation.

greets,
Staf.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Hans_ on January 02, 2008, 09:33:01 PM
Quote

Fats wrote:
Quote

Hans_ wrote:

AROS was about source-compatibility so OS4 apps won't run unless recompiled for AROS on whatever processor AROS is running on. That's ignoring the endianness issues of-course. As you've already realized, it would also be a big job.


AROS was about binary compatibility on m68k and source compatbility for non-amiga CPUs.


I'd forgotten about the 68k binary compatibility goal. But things have changed since then haven't they?

Quote

I don't see why there would be a big resistance from the developers if somebody makes an OS4 compatible AROS version. The mentality is that each developer should be able to do with the open-source source code what he likes. That is the spirit.
I myself am a core AROS developer and I do plan in the future to make two PPC versions of AROS possible. One binary compatible with MorhOS and one compatible with OS4. First I want to finish the i386 ABI though.
One of the biggest hurdles IMO for true OS4 compatibility is an open-source Reaction implementation.


Maybe you should tell some of the more vocal AROS advocates to STFU then. The impression that I got was that AROS developers have no interest in OS4 compatibility at all, see it as inferior, blah blah blah.

Hans
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Zac67 on January 02, 2008, 11:57:21 PM
Does anyone know, how much OS4 for classic and OS4 for A1 actually differ?

While the classic bootloader should be relatively simple (the hardware is initialized by Kickstart and very well known), the completely different hardware might be a large obstacle for running the OS on a Mac.

The A1 bootloader expects a Uboot machine (which we don't have), checks some dongle (we don't have either), but it expects a PCI architecture (yeah!) and brings along some hardware drivers we could need.

So, if the classic version supports a PCI architecture/HAL as well, it shouldn't be too hard to write a new bootloader (essentially what Moana does) and write a stub to adapt the HAL (I have no idea how much OF and Uboot differ here). This may sound naive - and will still be quite a bit of work - but if this is worked on on a scale like AROS, it's certainly doable. Of course we'd need hardware drivers as well, but as soon as the gfx hardware can be used as a simple framebuffer, it would be usable.

The other option you're just talking about, is to make AROS OS4 binary compatible - I guess that's a more complex task.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on January 04, 2008, 12:23:47 PM
Am I understanding this correctly, that moana only gets to kickstart, workbench can't load?

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: BooBoo1200 on January 04, 2008, 12:37:03 PM
Info elsewhere seem to sugest that full Os4 on Mac is possible I like to post a Quote originally posted on EAB the poster said the Info came an anonymous good soul at the bottom it sugests partitioning the HD with workbench but still booting from CD?
 
Quote

So, here goes... if this doesn't work, nothing will:

For starters, stop the booting sequence and enter the OF prompt by pressing Ctrl-Alt-O-F *right* after the USB keyboard gets detected.

Now, type exactly that:
boot cd:\\slb

Make sure you use the 'MM_Full_silent_USB' configuration, number 5 probably.

You can update those old kickmodules, but *DON'T DO ANYTHING* to the following files (including kernel files):
battclock.resource-via.kmod
macminiide.device.kmod
dbdma.library
nvram_OF.resource.kmod

If you want to do an iso from those files, you can easly use mkisoft by typing:
mkisofs -v -o -R -D -iso-level 3 -h -part -mac-name
-hfs-bless /l

What's more, you can partition the HDD with workbench on the mini, but it needs booting from the CD anyways.

PS: Got from an anonymous good soul...


Maybe the kickstart is looking for a FFS formated HD but whether this would work with Classic?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: djbase on January 04, 2008, 01:15:51 PM
Quote
Info elsewhere seem to sugest that full Os4 on Mac is possible I like to post a Quote originally posted on EAB the poster said the Info came an anonymous good soul at the bottom it sugests partitioning the HD with workbench but still booting from CD?


The problems is that the Mac OF can not boot from Amiga Partitions so you would need an HFS (or whatever the firmware can read) Partition to load the kickstart. I guess that if you make 2 partitions (one as HFS for the bootfiles, one for OS4) it will boot also without cd.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: BooBoo1200 on January 04, 2008, 03:35:04 PM
Yep thats a good idea - I wonder if its possible to make a dedicated FFS partion under Mac OS/E-UAE like with with WinUae then copy over the Os4 files -Maybe Im going in totaly the wrong direction here? I may have to wait until someone in the know gets a Mac? I dont know if I can wait that long :-P
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Fats on January 04, 2008, 10:36:33 PM
Quote

Hans_ wrote:

Maybe you should tell some of the more vocal AROS advocates to STFU then. The impression that I got was that AROS developers have no interest in OS4 compatibility at all, see it as inferior, blah blah blah.



AROS devs are a bunch of totally different people with (almost) the only common interest an amiga compatible OS. You should not take the rants of one of them as a general AROS statement.

greets,
Staf.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: whabang on January 05, 2008, 01:05:32 PM
Quote

Zac67 wrote:
Does anyone know, how much OS4 for classic and OS4 for A1 actually differ?


Personally, I have no idea, but I doubt they differ very much.

My bet is that the HAL and the bootloader is different, and that the rest is handled by drivers. After all, that's the reason for having HAL and drivers in the first place, and I doubt that Hyperion had resources for a complete rewrite anyway.

As for the piracy bit: If someone manages to get an implementation of OS4 Classic running on a PPC Mac, then i _will_ buy a copy of it. Period.
That is not piracy, no matter how you put it, and it will support the platform.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: dammy on January 05, 2008, 02:02:05 PM
Quote
Maybe you should tell some of the more vocal AROS advocates to STFU then. The impression that I got was that AROS developers have no interest in OS4 compatibility at all, see it as inferior, blah blah blah.


My, what a lovely attitude. :roll:  There is a bounty for a AROS PPC MOS wrapper/emulator (http://thenostromo.com/teamaros2/?number=31), I see no reason why there can not be one for OS4.  In the past month, I've seen AROS (think it was Zune) being brought into line with OS4 version.  

Dammy
TeamAROS (http://www.teamaros.org)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on January 06, 2008, 01:26:05 AM
Any possibility of running Amiga OS 4 on an HFS file system?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: rkauer on January 06, 2008, 03:34:56 AM
Quote

whabang wrote:
--ZIP--

As for the piracy bit: If someone manages to get an implementation of OS4 Classic running on a PPC Mac, then i _will_ buy a copy of it. Period.
That is not piracy, no matter how you put it, and it will support the platform.


 Agree with this point!

 The way you use the software you bought is irrelevant, but you must have purchase it (since you don't reverse engineer it!)! ;-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: HenryCase on January 06, 2008, 01:58:30 PM
Quote
Fats wrote:
I myself am a core AROS developer and I do plan in the future to make two PPC versions of AROS possible. One binary compatible with MorhOS and one compatible with OS4. First I want to finish the i386 ABI though.


That's great news (about your future plans). Thanks Fats. :-D

ABI = Application Binary Interface, right? It sounds pretty important, but I don't really understand how it will be used by AROS. Can you explain the benefits of a good i386 ABI implementation to us?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: beakster2 on January 06, 2008, 03:06:05 PM
Yo,

I've been playing around with PearPC.  I haven't got very far but this is what I have discovered:

If you try and get PearPC to boot the AmigaMini.iso it says [IO/PROM] can't open boot file.  If you change the prom_bootmethod to select it shows the ISO has 3 partitions.  1 is Raw, 2 is Apple Partition Table and 3 is HFS.

I eventually gave up on trying to get PearPC to boot the ISO directly.  Without the commands you need to issue through the Open Firmware interface it doesn't work.

I then extracted the ISO to a directory so I could then manually specify the boot file.  Here are the lines I used in my PearPC.cfg:
prom_bootmethod = "force"
prom_loadfile = "iso\l\slb"
prom_env_bootpath = "iso"

This resulted in PearPC spitting out the following to the terminal:
[CPU/CPU] execution started at 00200078
[IO/PROM] unknown interpret size 175
interpret: " /chosen" find-package drop " memory" rot get-package-property drop
decode-int nip nip ihandle>phandle " reg" rot get-package-property drop decode-i
nt drop decode-int nip nip

I then tried booting the other file in the "l" directory, slb_v2_mm.  This gave the following screen output:
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i83/beaksterboy/slb_v2.jpg)
But it spat out:
JITC Warning: program exception: 00080000 00000000
in what appeared to be an endless loop.

That is as far as I've got with it.  I think I'm out of ideas on how to take it any further.  I might post something on the PearPC forum and see if they have any suggestions.

Cheers
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: lovrenco on January 09, 2008, 08:33:47 PM
Nice try,

I think now, when "moana loader" and copy of AOS4 for A1 is available as torrent, it will not take long for someone to run it through emulator (PearPC). After all, if Mac OsX can run, why couldn't this OS.

But we can treat this as AIncs way of thinking. Underneath weak "slave platform" and on top AA2....

If "big players" doesn't want to end like this, they should act fast. New hardware is solution.... (or can I say - hardware exists, but license don't)...




Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Crumb on January 09, 2008, 10:32:43 PM
Quote
After all, if Mac OsX can run, why couldn't this OS.


You would require AmigaOS4 drivers for video, audio, network, hard disk... not imposible but it requires a lot of skill...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: beakster2 on January 09, 2008, 11:43:41 PM
Quote

lovrenco wrote:
After all, if Mac OsX can run, why couldn't this OS.


The thing is Mac OS X actually has really good built in hardware support.  There have been lots of different Macs over the years using lots of different video chipsets and stuff.

The Moana loader seems to have been written specifically for the 1.5GHz Mac Mini only.  Without the source code for Moana I don't think its any use on any other machine.

But I agree, with the PPC processor emulated, and a few implementations of OpenFirmware/OpenBIOS out there, surely the hard work has been done and tailoring these to emulate an AmigaOne should be simple if you know how.

If we were emulating Macs and PCs on our Amigas 15 years+ ago, why should this be much different.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: lovrenco on January 12, 2008, 11:20:41 AM
Look at this topic on Pearpc.net

http://www.pearpc.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5536&sid=d1aa4ab24d13bc60db35b51361a488e4


What do you think about it?


Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on January 13, 2008, 01:00:46 AM
Would perhaps the solution be to write an HFS file system for OS 4?


Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Zac67 on January 13, 2008, 10:01:45 AM
No. If OS4 is able to access the harddrive and understand the partition info, FFS will be fine.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DoogUK on January 24, 2008, 09:43:59 PM
I have a powerpc powermac 5500/275....one of the rare ones that looks and is a tv too.. :-D .

it has the powerpc 603ev chip @275mhz......how cool would that be to run os4 on!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Trev on January 24, 2008, 10:54:26 PM
Quote
Would perhaps the solution be to write an HFS file system for OS 4?


No, you'd want an FFS package for Open Firmware. A read-only implementation would suffice. Although, an HFS handler for OS4 would be nice, too. Anyone know the current state of MaxDOS?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on February 01, 2008, 03:28:58 PM
Wll, I've tried OS4 on every PPC Mac in the house and several at work, nothing seems to boot to even Kickstart...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on April 24, 2008, 08:49:47 PM
Any news yet?


(http://freemaagyeman.com/forums/avatars/gabz95.gif)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DBAlex on May 24, 2008, 04:01:24 PM
Quick bump, I know a guy who has this installed on a HD...

Not naming any names...

But yeah, it's possible to get a working OS4 from this...

Whether this is legal or not i'm not sure...?

Probably not though so I won't say any more. Also "I know a guy" means someone else, i've never had any success getting any further than the kickstart screen :-(

Alex.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 04:14:47 PM
Two days ago I inherited an old PowerMAC 7600/132 with a 400MHz Sonnet G3 and what looks like 256meg of ram (it was an old CAD machine) with a 10gig SCSI HD.

Two problems... I have no ADB Mouse/Keyboard and no 15pin Apple compatible monitor...

What the hell can I do with this lump? :-)

I'm loathed to bin it... since I rescued it in the frist place... but I really can't do anything with it...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Tron2k2 on May 24, 2008, 04:27:37 PM
This is slightly OT, but I'd love to get my hands on the CAD software on that Mac!  I periodically do file conversion on ancient Mac CAD files (think OS 8.x era) and have a lot of trouble reading them properly with modern CAD software for the Mac, even in Classic mode.  So, I hope you didn't erase that old copy of CADintosh yet!

Can you PM me with any software availability?  And before the  anti-piracy crowd chimes in-the companies that made these old softwares don't exist anymore for the most part, and those who do don't support their ancient software or offer it for sale, believe me I've tried!  You can't even find it on eBay..
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: amiga_3k on May 24, 2008, 04:34:14 PM
You should be able to pick a monitor and a mouse / keyboard up for nothing. The only problem probably is you have to take the Apple along as well :-). J
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 04:40:40 PM
Quote

Tron2k2 wrote:
This is slightly OT, but I'd love to get my hands on the CAD software on that Mac!  I periodically do file conversion on ancient Mac CAD files (think OS 8.x era) and have a lot of trouble reading them properly with modern CAD software for the Mac, even in Classic mode.  So, I hope you didn't erase that old copy of CADintosh yet!

Can you PM me with any software availability?  And before the  anti-piracy crowd chimes in-the companies that made these old softwares don't exist anymore for the most part, and those who do don't support their ancient software or offer it for sale, believe me I've tried!  You can't even find it on eBay..


Have no way of interfacing with the HD other than the machine itself... The CAD software installed is Vector works 8.5 (apparently there are other CAD packages on there too, but that was the main program used)... So nothing has been wiped yet...

I've looked around the computer junk stores here in London and nothing with ADB or Apple monitor adaptors (I'm not having another monitor in this place).
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on May 24, 2008, 04:46:39 PM
@bloodline
Email me if you want to give Moana a try on that PowerMac (and don't already have it)

Edit - not that it will do you much good without a monitor, keyboard or mouse. Been revising audiology, so my brain isn't working too well...

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Tron2k2 on May 24, 2008, 04:58:11 PM
Here's an eBay auction with what you need..

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEC-MUILTSYNC-15-PIN-MAC-TO-15-PIN-VGA-GENDER-CHANGER_W0QQitemZ5137317595QQihZ018QQcategoryZ171QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

That way you can use your normal VGA monitor with the Mac, there are similar cheap ADB keyboards and mice available on eBay as well.  I'm kind of surprised that no computer places around you have any ADB stuff, most of them around here do.  There are recycling places here that sell the nicer stuff they get in to be recycled, and they always keep some mac stuff around as well.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 05:09:49 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
@bloodline
Email me if you want to give Moana a try on that PowerMac (and don't already have it)


What do you think? ;-) The idea of setting up a PPC box for whatever-os-might-come-my-way is what made me agree to take the thing in the first place... Since I'm Keeping my PowerBook G4 with OSX as they way it remains useful...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 05:11:02 PM
Quote

Tron2k2 wrote:
Here's an eBay auction with what you need..

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEC-MUILTSYNC-15-PIN-MAC-TO-15-PIN-VGA-GENDER-CHANGER_W0QQitemZ5137317595QQihZ018QQcategoryZ171QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

That way you can use your normal VGA monitor with the Mac, there are similar cheap ADB keyboards and mice available on eBay as well.  I'm kind of surprised that no computer places around you have any ADB stuff, most of them around here do.  There are recycling places here that sell the nicer stuff they get in to be recycled, and they always keep some mac stuff around as well.


I'm not falling into the old computer trap with this one... if I can't get everything I need for free or as close as... it's not worth my time :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on May 24, 2008, 05:19:59 PM
@bloodline
Check your email ;-)

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on May 24, 2008, 05:26:39 PM
Is this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VGA-TO-APPLE-MAC-MACINTOSH-MONITOR-ADAPTOR_W0QQitemZ160242030746QQihZ006QQcategoryZ4601QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) the VGA adapter you need?

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 05:29:42 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Is this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VGA-TO-APPLE-MAC-MACINTOSH-MONITOR-ADAPTOR_W0QQitemZ160242030746QQihZ006QQcategoryZ4601QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) the VGA adapter you need?

--
moto


yup and I'm not paying £5 for it :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on May 24, 2008, 05:31:09 PM
Cheapskate :-P

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 05:33:44 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Cheapskate :-P

--
moto


No... I just been down that path before... Does anyone know if I would be able to network boot it?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 05:41:42 PM
I've plug the old machine in powered it up... beeped a few times... and connected it to my MBP via ethernet... I can ping it fine... but I can't SSH or telnet... not AFP either... I have no idea what I else I can do...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on May 24, 2008, 05:43:11 PM
Can those old machines do target disk mode or anything similar?

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 05:45:54 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Can those old machines do target disk mode or anything similar?

--
moto


Maybe... but I don't have a keyboard to hold any keys down :-)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on May 24, 2008, 05:48:08 PM
Oh yeah... off to eBay then...

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 05:49:05 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Oh yeah... off to eBay then...

--
moto


Hmmm... running a portscan now... looks like all the ports are closed :-(
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on May 24, 2008, 05:53:04 PM
Bummer... can you take the disk out and put it in a caddy? Might enable you to edit some BSD config file to enable telnet or AFP.

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 05:55:56 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Bummer... can you take the disk out and put it in a caddy? Might enable you to edit some BSD config file to enable telnet or AFP.

--
moto


The Hard disk is SCSI... I have nothing here that can interface with it other than my Roland W-30... and that would just erase the disk and use the first 50meg for storing sound samples :-)

Remember that this machine is running Mac OS8... it's got no BSD heritage...

-Edit- I have noticed that the CD drive is IDE... and there is a spare IDE port on the MOBO... I wonder what I can do with that?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on May 24, 2008, 06:20:45 PM
Quote
bloodline wrote:
The Hard disk is SCSI...

I wonder if an Amiga could access it through ShapeShifter?

Quote
bloodline wrote:
Remember that this machine is running Mac OS8... it's got no BSD heritage...

I didn't know there was a PPC version of OS8. No idea how to do anything in that case!

Quote
bloodline wrote:
-Edit- I have noticed that the CD drive is IDE... and there is a spare IDE port on the MOBO... I wonder what I can do with that?

Connect IDE devices to it? ;-)

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 06:24:59 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Quote
bloodline wrote:
The Hard disk is SCSI...

I wonder if an Amiga could access it through ShapeShifter?


Yeah... if I had a SCSI interface on any of my Amigas...

Quote

Quote
bloodline wrote:
Remember that this machine is running Mac OS8... it's got no BSD heritage...

I didn't know there was a PPC version of OS8. No idea how to do anything in that case!


Apple went PPC with OS7.3.x...

Quote

Quote
bloodline wrote:
-Edit- I have noticed that the CD drive is IDE... and there is a spare IDE port on the MOBO... I wonder what I can do with that?

Connect IDE devices to it? ;-)


Hmmm... but to what end?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on May 24, 2008, 06:33:13 PM
Quote
bloodline wrote:
Quote
motorollin wrote:
I wonder if an Amiga could access it through ShapeShifter?

Yeah... if I had a SCSI interface on any of my Amigas...

I have... ;-)

Quote
bloodline wrote:
Quote
motorollin wrote:
Connect IDE devices to it? ;-)

Hmmm... but to what end?

I know it would be pretty pointless in this case - I was just being facetious :-D

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 06:50:50 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Quote
bloodline wrote:
Quote
motorollin wrote:
I wonder if an Amiga could access it through ShapeShifter?

Yeah... if I had a SCSI interface on any of my Amigas...

I have... ;-)



Well I'm not posting this one to you... it weighs the same as an old russian tank...

Quote


Quote
bloodline wrote:
Quote
motorollin wrote:
Connect IDE devices to it? ;-)

Hmmm... but to what end?

I know it would be pretty pointless in this case - I was just being facetious :-D
 


But there are two ports I can interface with on this machine... the IDE and the Ethernet... somehow I must be able to get this machine to do something?!!?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: ncafferkey on May 24, 2008, 07:11:48 PM
You should be able to get an Open Firmware interface on the serial port, but you might need to hold down a keyboard combination to get to it.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 07:14:15 PM
Quote

ncafferkey wrote:
You should be able to get an Open Firmware interface on the serial port, but you might need to hold down a keyboard combination to get to it.


It has no serial port... well it's got a "phone" port which is probably a serial port but it's a DIN socket...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: niklasni1 on May 24, 2008, 07:22:57 PM
A 7600 is not going to have any networking servers running by default. The only FTP/HTTP servers were 3rd party, too.

It has got two serial ports (on mini-DIN socets), marked modem and printer. Both can be connected to PC serial ports (both 9 and 25 pin) with a simple mechanical adaptor.

But even if you got into OpenFirmware via serial, the only thing you would be able to do was boot it into MacOS 8.6 or whatever's on it and there's no way to interact with that over serial line.

Basically, no keyboard and monitor == useless Mac. It will boot up without a keyboard attached, though (no need to Press F1 to Resume), but you can do fuck all with it unless it's been configured first.

I might pay you for the RAM and G3 card, though..
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: niklasni1 on May 24, 2008, 07:30:23 PM
Actually, someone with a mack might be able to put together a boot ISO for you with an FTP server on it which you could burn.

You'd need to access the firmware (or a keyboard) to boot from the CD, though..
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 07:33:55 PM
Quote

niklasni1 wrote:
A 7600 is not going to have any networking servers running by default. The only FTP/HTTP servers were 3rd party, too.

It has got two serial ports (on mini-DIN socets), marked modem and printer. Both can be connected to PC serial ports (both 9 and 25 pin) with a simple mechanical adaptor.

But even if you got into OpenFirmware via serial, the only thing you would be able to do was boot it into MacOS 8.6 or whatever's on it and there's no way to interact with that over serial line.

Basically, no keyboard and monitor == useless Mac. It will boot up without a keyboard attached, though (no need to Press F1 to Resume), but you can do fuck all with it unless it's been configured first.

I might pay you for the RAM and G3 card, though..


Yup, I guessed it basically a brick...

You can buy the CPU card new from Sonnet for $50 (http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_32&products_id=44)  and I'm pretty sure the ram would cost more to send than you could pick up from you local junk store... :-/

The SCSI HD is a bit more interesting...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 07:34:48 PM
Quote

niklasni1 wrote:
Actually, someone with a mack might be able to put together a boot ISO for you with an FTP server on it which you could burn.


I like that thinking... perhaps a Boot CD with VNC on it?

Quote

You'd need to access the firmware (or a keyboard) to boot from the CD, though..


BUM!!!! :-x
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 07:37:13 PM
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

niklasni1 wrote:
Actually, someone with a mack might be able to put together a boot ISO for you with an FTP server on it which you could burn.


I like that thinking... perhaps a Boot CD with VNC on it?

Quote

You'd need to access the firmware (or a keyboard) to boot from the CD, though..


BUM!!!! :-x


What about an auto running CD that will run upon insertion... which will start a VNC server?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: niklasni1 on May 24, 2008, 08:15:28 PM
Quote

bloodline wrote:
You can buy the CPU card new from Sonnet for $50 (http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_32&products_id=44)  and I'm pretty sure the ram would cost more to send than you could pick up from you local junk store... :-/


Sonnet don't sell to Europe from their site.

The RAM is actually a special type (5v 168 pin, as opposed to the 3.3v 168 pin which was used in PCs at the time) and, whilst not exactly 'rare' is not quite /that/ common either... Depending on how many chips makes up your 256MB set and how easy it would be to get money to you, I might actually be genuinely interested.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 24, 2008, 08:20:19 PM
Quote

niklasni1 wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
You can buy the CPU card new from Sonnet for $50 (http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_32&products_id=44)  and I'm pretty sure the ram would cost more to send than you could pick up from you local junk store... :-/


Sonnet don't sell to Europe from their site.

The RAM is actually a special type (5v 168 pin, as opposed to the 3.3v 168 pin which was used in PCs at the time) and, whilst not exactly 'rare' is not quite /that/ common either... Depending on how many chips makes up your 256MB set and how easy it would be to get money to you, I might actually be genuinely interested.


Ok, where do you live?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: tiffers on May 25, 2008, 04:55:39 AM
Quote
DBAlex wrote:
I know a guy who has this installed on a HD...


Did you actually see it running yourself? Do you know how stable it was?

tiffers

Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Fizza on May 26, 2008, 07:30:24 AM
Quote

dammy wrote:
Quote
This boot CD is useless without an actual copy of OS4. It just lets you boot OS4 itself.


Guess if there is no OS4 on ftp or bittorrent, it's all safe. :-D

Dammy


This type of reply is baffling unless viewed from a very twisted perspective. Basically, you're saying that wanting OS4 to run on a Mac is a bad thing as an increase in demand for OS4 will cause it to be  pirated, and therefore those who want to see OS4 go somewhere are basically just encouraging piracy? Or better yet, those who want to put run it on Macs will definitely not buy a copy of OS4 and are pirates themselves already... talk about judge & jury. My honest opinion is that these types of voices have prevailed far too long in this saga and it's only gotten us nowhere, I think it's time to see these people for who they are, I can't imagine this person, or someone who would agree with him wants anything to be done at all and really have gotten naysaying down to a fine art, or profession. I'm guessing that if Dammy had any input, Shapeshifter would never have happened way back when...

Is it possible that OS4 would be pirated? Of course it is, but even if it's pirated at 50%, at least that 50% of selling something to a market rather than 100% of nothing! I'm certainly not condoning piracy whatsoever, but given the choice I'd rather Microsoft had Dammy's viewpoint and not released Windows for fear of someone pirating it lest it be successful..

As for other legalities (barring Amiga specific ones), I can only say Bootcamp, if Apple is enabling purchasers of Intel Macs to dual boot into Windows Vista natively (one wonders how much MS helped them make that happen), then I can't see how they could kick up a fuss about their obsolete PowerPC hardware being booted into another OS either, in fact they might be glad to be rid of any remaining G4/G5 hardware they have...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Fizza on May 26, 2008, 07:47:24 AM
Quote

A1260 wrote:
this is a niche market and a hobby os the companies behind it need to make a living you know, this is not the way to do it. while you other here dont care and think this will be the solution to shortage of suitable hardware. for a little time it may be true but then these few mac's that run this will be old and very popular on ebay, we will again have ridiculous high prices and people start whining. as this aint enough there will not be any new updates of the aos because you killed of the business for these small companies like hyperion. what then? you ever thing of it?... so continue with your greedy ways of wanting everything free and act like children. when aos4.0 is dead its your fault, period!.

  :-x


Absolute rubbish, Amiga wasn't always a niche you know! Who knows where it would lead having a viable option for running (legally) OS4 on Mac hardware, there's tons of it out there, and tons of it that people might be interested in putting to use, which all adds up to sales for an OS vendor willing to exploit it. I'm sure if it was even a reasonable success within the Amiga/geek, or even Linux community I'm sure that would put some money in the coffers for Amiga Inc/Hyperion to develop Amiga OS further. I can't see dual G5 machines being obsolete in the next three to four years. Do you want Amiga OS to be successful again, or are you content being a pseudo legal analyst instead? If you were such a good one, I'm surprised that you think it's wise to presume that people who want Amiga OS to run on Mac hardware want it done for free.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: _ThEcRoW on May 26, 2008, 10:19:57 AM
Bloodline, haven't read the entire thread but saw somewhere boot cd. Are you working on a os4 boot cd for macs?
I'm higly interested.
Thanks in advance!!!
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on May 26, 2008, 10:50:32 AM
Quote

_ThEcRoW wrote:
Bloodline, haven't read the entire thread but saw somewhere boot cd. Are you working on a os4 boot cd for macs?
I'm higly interested.
Thanks in advance!!!


I was working on a headless PowerMac boot CD... sadly the PowerMac's total lack of industry standard connectors has totally defeated my efforts...

To be really honest, I'm more likely to run AROS than OS4 on this old PowerMac... I have a BlizzPPC and virtually no PPC only Amiga Software...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on May 27, 2008, 12:15:52 AM
Yep, the only viable solution to put OS4 in the hands of the teaming masses of Amiga users (we'll maybe not teaming masses,but...) is to have it run on PPC Mac hardware,  I just cycled out 15 PPC Macs at work, replacing them with Intels.  We''ll dump those PPC Mac cheaply.  There's at least a dozen more I'll be taking out of service this calendar year.  

There's a glut of PPC Macs on the market.  Here in Australia no one have ever been charged with running legally purchased software on non-Eula allowed equipment.  I don't think they could be charged under current Australian law.  You bought the software, you bought the hardware, it's nobodies business what you do with them.

If you can buy a highend "Amiga" (ppc mac) and os4 for less than $400 who's the loser?  Nobody, Amiga inc (KMOS) does not and never has produced hardware.  Same with Hyperion.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Vlabguy1 on May 27, 2008, 12:32:39 AM
I would def, be interested to see if OS4 can//will be ported to Mac.  I have several older and newer Macs that would love Amiga OS4 ... :-)..
The hope that this will happen is the only reason why Im hangin onto these
machines..


Rich
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: amigadave on May 27, 2008, 12:54:22 AM
@persia,

Just out of curiosity, what model PPC Macs are you taking out of service?  When you say you are replacing the PPC Macs with Intel, I assume you mean Intel Macs?  What type of business is it that decided to use Mac in the first place instead of Windows boxes?

I have said it before in great detail.  Releasing an equivalent to bootcamp that would allow the installation and running of the currently available, AmigaOS4 for Classic Amigas on all models of PPC Macs would be the best thing that has ever happened to the Amiga community, Hyperion and the long suffering developers that have been so under paid for their work on OS4.  Maybe it would even generate enough renewed interest and small amount of money to allow more future work and a port to what ever the AOS4 team want it to run on so they can make a little more money.  If they cannot see that and are still so narrow minded and determined to keep AOS4 only on proprietary non-existant hardware, then they do not deserve my support.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on May 27, 2008, 01:10:04 AM
We're a University, and yes we are buying intel Macs that will DUal Boot Leopard and XP.  So much software runs better on Intel Macs than PPC ones that we are trying to get rid of as many PPC Macs as possible.

We replaced my aging G5 with a dual Quad core intel.  The difference is night and day.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: on May 27, 2008, 01:37:59 AM
I would gladly pay more than the retail price of windows and mac os x put together for an operating system that was neither windows nor unix! :) seriously, there are enough people doing random things like running mac os x on regular PCs right now that I think there's an opportunity that someone should take advantage of.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bd1308 on June 02, 2008, 05:24:13 PM
can someone give me a run-down of this off board (pm)?

I have literally fifteen G4 and G3 macs that could use an OS facelift
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on June 11, 2008, 04:28:01 AM
Yeah, I don't get it, either Hyperion has rights to OS 4 or the don't.  If they do then why don't they produce a version that runs on Macs.  If they don't have rights then they are sunk anyway, so why wait for the court?



(http://new.disneyecho.emuck.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/musicsad.gif) :destroy:
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on July 08, 2008, 12:36:17 PM
As I understand it you just need to hand uboot code since the most of the old PPC Macs have radeon graphics cards...


(http://i.imdb.com/Photos/CMSIcons/emoticons/jumping/jump4.gif)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: Varthall on July 08, 2008, 03:11:50 PM
Quote

persia wrote:
Yeah, I don't get it, either Hyperion has rights to OS 4 or the don't.  If they do then why don't they produce a version that runs on Macs.  If they don't have rights then they are sunk anyway, so why wait for the court?

They have the right to develop and release OS4 only for AmigaOnes and Blizzard/Cyberstorm PPCs. They're waiting for the court so that they can freely release OS4 for other platforms, too.

Varthall
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on July 08, 2008, 04:09:46 PM
So if Hyp win, they get rights to release OS4 for other platforms? Is that right?

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: bloodline on July 08, 2008, 04:22:18 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
So if Hyp win, they get rights to release OS4 for other platforms? Is that right?

--
moto


I think so... but three things, as I understand it;

1) They have already lost, as AInc. have apparently (and surprisingly) kept their part of the deal... the $xxxx buy back... and now Hyp are contesting it... As I understand it, I could be wrong here.

2) If they did win, they wouldn't be able to use the Name (and/or Amiga IP?)... Again I could be wrong...

3) If they did win, they have stated "NO x86 PORT"... so I have no idea what platform they plan to run it on... If I go PPC, then I'm with the EFIKA and that would be best with MOS or AROS... or SAM and I would want to run AROS there...


Apologies if any or all of this is FUD...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on July 08, 2008, 04:40:02 PM
What complicates matters is that there are two Amiga Incs, Amino, the original post Gateway Amiga Inc and KMOS, the company that served as a shell to erase Amino's bad debts.  

Hyperion had a deal with Amino, but they've also signed things with KMOS so I'm not sure who's got what.  What I suspect is that Bill originally planned to use Hyperion to escape the debt but Hyperion wasn't cooperative so he went to KMOS, transfered the assets and scuttled the companies president.  

Sooooooo, we don't really know what the Judge will decide.  Either way we have problems, Hyperion's stand on X86 means there will be few machines that OS4 will run on, Amiga Inc/KMOS history pretty much says that there will be no machines that OS4 will run on if they win...
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: motorollin on July 08, 2008, 06:34:22 PM
"Please Mister... can we have our OS back?"

--
moto
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: uncharted on July 08, 2008, 06:46:43 PM
I don't understand this whole thing.  Surely, by now, they lawsuit has probably cost more than the whole Amiga market is worth.

Just why is Amiga still alive?  It really doesn't make sense.  They have no products, the legacy stuff is next to worthless now.  They burned through all their VC money by 2002.  Why keep the company on semi-life-support for 6 years?  It really doesn't make any sense at all.  All it seems to have done is bled money.

Or do they really collect that many royalties off of Amiga Forever?

I wonder if there are any other employees other than McBill - are Fluffy Muff and that ex-QNX guy still there?   What about HMetal, I wonder if he is still the web master.

I reckon, Amiga's benefactor would be wise to sell the lot to BBRV or some other nutcase for 10 grand or something like that.

There is something decidedly sinister about the whole thing.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: odin on July 08, 2008, 08:42:17 PM
A. Inc has to be a money laundering outfit for that Finnish investor-bloke. It's the only logical explanation why he'd put in money in something ridiculous like A. Inc.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: wolfchild on July 08, 2008, 09:19:53 PM
Seeing the name Amino kind of rang a bell...

Is this set-top box company linked to the Amiga in any way? -> http://www.aminocom.com/

Their boxes are PPC based (I opened one), and if one sees the job vacancies on the site, and reading between the lines, they are after people who can develop for something other than linux.

Given that these set-top boxes are quite successful, whatever proprietary OS is running inside surely provides a fortune magnitues higher than a shrink wrapped OS4 could provide, if you get what I mean.

Maybe the Amiga OS is still being used, and a lot, but behind the scenes, in the lucrative embedded market.
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on July 08, 2008, 09:22:01 PM
Amiga Inc's website hasn't been updated since February, the only active part of the company seems to be Amiga Development Indi, which has now added Linux to it's dotNet skills.  But what exactly does Bill do all day?  Why do they even need him or anyone else in Seattle?


(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll35/anja-073/REExePushup5.gif)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: uncharted on July 08, 2008, 09:59:58 PM
Quote

odin wrote:
A. Inc has to be a money laundering outfit for that Finnish investor-bloke. It's the only logical explanation why he'd put in money in something ridiculous like A. Inc.


I had considered that, but then surely, the court case is the last thing they'd pursue.  Why bring attention to it?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on September 06, 2008, 09:10:15 PM
Just saw the following on my favourite file sharing service site....

Does it work???



Quote

Details for Amiga OS 4.0 (w/July 2007 Updates) Install CD for Mac Mini G   
Created by krismiszcz 13 hours ago
Applications : Macintosh : English
Amiga OS 4.0 (w/July 2007 Updates) Install CD for Mac Mini G4 (Moana Loader)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This CD will allow you to boot the Amiga OS 4.0 kernel and run the Amiga OS 4.0 installer.

The knows issues with the Moana loader are:

* Displays image that USB stack has not been loaded (USB keyboards and mice work)
* Doesn't detect the Mac Mini built-in Ethernet
* Doesn't detect the Mac Mini AirPort Extreme card
* Doesn't detect the Mac Mini Bluetooth device
* Probably a lot more I've not come across yet!

Testing has been performed with a Mac Mini G4 with the following specs:

Model Name: Mac mini
Model Identifier: PowerMac10,2
Processor Name: PowerPC G4 (1.2)
Processor Speed: 1.5 GHz
Number Of CPUs: 1
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 1 GB
Bus Speed: 167 MHz
Boot ROM Version: 4.9.4f0

This CD may/may not work on other Mac Mini G4 models.


Instructions for booting:
-------------------------

1) Boot into Open Firmware (Hold down "Option" "Command" "o" "f" when powering on)
2) First time users will only need to enter the following command once:
setenv boota-device cd:
3) Begin loading the OS 4.0 kernel/kickstart by typing in the following command:
boot cd:slb_v2
4) Select either option:
"1. Amiga OS 4.x: CDROM MM_Full_silent_USB" - for Mac Mini G4 1.5GHz/64MB Radeon models
"2. Amiga OS 4.x: CDROM MM_Full_silent_USB_ATI_safe" - for all other Mac Mini G4 models
5) Press "Enter" at the "Installed mem: 1024 mega bega" prompt
6) Press "Enter" at the "About to build the copy of the OF tree; Code start at 0x01800000; press any key" prompt
7) Press "Enter" at the "All init done; about to kill OF and start ExecSG; press any key" prompt

At this point, the screen should turn black and after a few seconds, the CD drive will spin up.

Eventually you'll see an AmigaDOS window displaying the message "USB stack not running.". Oddly enough, USB keyboards and mice seem to work.

7) You'll be greeted with a "Welcome to the Amiga OS 4.0 Install CD" window, click on "Proceed"
 On the next window, select your language, country and time zone and click "Use"
9) A window will pop up and will ask how the system time should be updated. Click on "System"
10) A window will pop up with the message "Your system time has been updated". Click on "OK"
11) Shortly after, a window will appear to advise you that you must select a keyboard. Click "OK"
12) Select your keyboard and click "Use"

If the start up appears to stall between steps 10 and 11, press "Ctrl C" and you should see a "WAIT: ***Break" message appear. The installer will now continue.

Good luck!

--
Peers: 25 seeders, 5 leechers, 30 total
Size: 49.97 MB   
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on December 21, 2008, 12:53:19 PM
So where is the hangup?  Uboot?  Hardware drivers?


(http://www.iconwild.com/smilies/christmas/christmas-smiley-138.gif)
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: persia on May 12, 2009, 02:29:58 PM
All the stuff on TPB is old and not working, has anybody gotten OS 4.1 working on a PPC Mac?
Title: Re: Amiga OS4 on old (PPC) Macs
Post by: DiskDoctor on May 12, 2009, 07:05:02 PM
Quote

persia wrote:
All the stuff on TPB is old and not working, has anybody gotten OS 4.1 working on a PPC Mac?


You mean the Moana?  I gave it a try and it was successful eventually.  It was worth to sacrifice Christmas, I'm telling you!