persia wrote:
... how to run Amiga OS 4 on a old (PPC) Mac?!?!?!
Piru wrote:
Leopard doesn't install (http://www.apple.com/macosx/techspecs/) on 700MHz G4.
hardlink wrote:
I have a dual G5... (about the only good use I have ever found for the machine)
ACube showed Bill McEwen a screenshot of it running during an IRC chat session. Unfortunately Amiga Inc. wouldn't give them a license, and ACube have had to suspend its development.
Kronos wrote:
@da9000
Well, with Hyperion refusing to honor their part of the contract there is hardly any money to made for AInc in OS4 on MacMini.
Mind, I doubt things would be much different if everything was o.k. between AInc and Hyperion, but atm their both big show-stopper when it comes to new HW.
Kronos wrote:
@Hans
No need to start another lawsuit-thread,
Kronos wrote:
Releasing it for HW not listed in the contract would be the biggest favour Hyperion could do to AInc atm....
motorollin wrote:
I'm not counting on Hyp/AInc/ACube doing anything official. And I too am worried that there will be no future releases of OS4. So I have ordered a copy in anticipation of an unofficial "fix" being released which will allow it to run on a PPC Mac.
--
moto
motorollin wrote:
I'm not counting on Hyp/AInc/ACube doing anything official. And I too am worried that there will be no future releases of OS4. So I have ordered a copy in anticipation of an unofficial "fix" being released which will allow it to run on a PPC Mac.
moto
Faerytale wrote:
The clerk behind the desk dont give a {bleep} of licenses. He just want you to buy so he can get his share of money.
He probably havent got a clue about licenses anyway :)
But when you install the software, you probably have to click"Agree to license" before you can install it.
About toyota toragos, I dont know bleep :)
Faerytale wrote:
"It's not piracy, if you buy a program it's yours to do with as you please so long as you don't distribute it to others"
You never "own" a software you buy. You only buy a license that gives you the right to use it.
You dont have the right to do whatever you want with it.
You have to agree to the license agreement of the specified software.
AMC258 wrote:
No, it wouldn't hurt AInc, Hyperion, etc, that we know of. But, what if they, or someone else is spending big bucks right now developing a new PPC board for us? Who does that hurt? Obviously the PPC board developer.
Yes, I'm sure ACK and Elbox are *HOT* on that market!Just make a patch already and I'm buying a copy. Frak AI and all their BS.
Now why would installing a retail boxed OS4 be any different?
For the masochists or whatever;just install the VPC on your Mac, then install Windows and tweak it for best performance of Amiga Forever ! It should run almost as slow as the original.
motorollin wrote:QuoteFaerytale wrote:
"It's not piracy, if you buy a program it's yours to do with as you please so long as you don't distribute it to others"
You never "own" a software you buy. You only buy a license that gives you the right to use it.
You dont have the right to do whatever you want with it.
You have to agree to the license agreement of the specified software.
The EULA to which you are referring is *not* legally binding. An end user has no legal obligation to run software they buy only on the hardware the vendor wants him to. I have purchased a legal copy of OS4, and I am legally entitled to run it on whatever hardware I choose, and there's nothing AInc or anyone else can do about it.
Also, if somebody releases a patch for OS4 to allow it to run on non-Amiga hardware, then this is not piracy, since piracy refers to copyright theft, not the modification of software for which one owns a license.
--
moto
monami wrote:
"... but since no one gives a sh1t about Ainc any more, this is all moot, so we should just do it anyway !"
here, here. right who can code? :lol:
Agafaster wrote:
I seem to remember AIncs reasoning (back when we still liked 'em) that they couldnt do a version for PowerMacs cos of apple never being likely to release the info required to not do a hack, which is effectively what the Linux crew did to get linux on powermacs. now, Linux is community software, and AInc are (for want of a better word !) a company, which would leave them wide open for being sued should they market the technology to run an alternate commercial OS on a closed platform. also, it wouldnt be in Apples best interest to have a better OS (as at the time, OS4 was better than their offering, natch !) on THEIR platform.
upshot: technically, very doable. legally ? potential bl00dy minefield for everybody but Apple.
Fizza wrote:
I was always on the understanding that the hack would come from a third party, either shareware or whateverelseware. If so, then there would be no legal ramifications for Amiga Inc, Hyperion or Apple, although I'm not sure why Apple would be bothered, fair play OS4 is nice, but I'd imagine if Apple were worried right now about their OS being thrown off the machine, it would be Linux, or even Windows that they'd be concerned about. Amiga's probably not on their radar whatsoever.
Basically some cunning person(s) come up with the way to get it running, and we all just go out and buy boxes of OS4 and take it from there. Although I guess, the main concern now is whether OS4 Classic can be made to run, and/or the availability of the 'normal' OS4, is that still being sold?
amigadave wrote:Quote
motorollin wrote:
I'm not counting on Hyp/AInc/ACube doing anything official. And I too am worried that there will be no future releases of OS4. So I have ordered a copy in anticipation of an unofficial "fix" being released which will allow it to run on a PPC Mac.
moto
I don't advocate piracy of any kind, but in this case I wish the person(s) who have figured out how to run OS4 on a MacMini would "accidentally" leak that information and/or code to the Net. It would then be used with the same OS4 package that is being sold for the Classic PPC Amigas and would explode the sales of OS4 to ten times what is selling now.
It makes sense, as they are not making any money on proprietary hardware with the Classic version of OS4, so why not make money for sales of Classic OS4 to be used on any PPC Mac?
recidivist wrote:
We might be better off with a Mac_PPC AROS or whatever.
Maybe write Amiga "themes" for Linux OSes ?
availability of the 'normal' OS4, is that still being sold?
The future of the the Amiga of course is Intel AROS, but that's a different issue.
failing all this development things seems to be happening quicker with aros. i was also pinning my hopes on that. just need a browser now...
AROS is not Amiga, so it is not the Amiga future.
AmigaPapst wrote:
@persia
>The future of the the Amiga of course is Intel AROS, but that's a different issue.
AROS is not Amiga, so it is not the Amiga future.
What piece of hardware does AROS run native on ie . . . Graphics, sound, enet etc. . . And I mean stable, not hosted?
AROS is not Amiga, so it is not the Amiga future.
AROS will be BIG once it has a form of UAE integration built in. After that it will be on par with and will exceed MorphOS and OS4.
persia wrote:
Patching OS X to run on non-dongled hardware is tim conuming there are hundred megabyte updates monthly that break the patch. Amiga OS is basically unsupported, things don't get fixed, so once it was setup to run on non-dongled hardware it would be for an indefinite period of time.
Wolfe wrote:Quote
recidivist wrote:
We might be better off with a Mac_PPC AROS or whatever.
Maybe write Amiga "themes" for Linux OSes ?
AROS, is due to hit prime time in 2010 IMO. Thats too long to wait. :devildance:
AmigaPapst wrote:
@persia
>The future of the the Amiga of course is Intel AROS, but that's a different issue.
AROS is not Amiga, so it is not the Amiga future.
AmigaPapst wrote:
>Ofcourse, Amiga today is not Amiga...so what's your point?
No, think only AmigaOS 4 with PPC is amiga. :-D
persia wrote:
The present is Amiga OS 4, the future is AROS!
A1260 wrote:
please close this threat i dont want to hear more whining about os4.0 on mac again or else i will explode!!! :madashell:
Oliver wrote:
Please don't take this as trolling, but...
Apart from the hobby/nostalgia factor, is there actually any real reason to use OS4? My reasons for using my last miggies, were some really good old aps, and great old games.
Are there aps for OS4 which can attract a user base? I think it can run UAE, but can it run it as well as Windows on cheap, fast hardware? I presume it would make better use of an underutilised PPC accellerator on a classic miggy, but what would it actually be used for? Can the classic version take full advantage of the old hardware for running old apps?
For my computer usage, I currently find XP to be the most capable OS. It has the apps I need to do my work, and I can buy a copy for about $20 now. I use Xubuntu for other tasks at home. Xubuntu performs pretty well on modest hardware, and can do standard jobs quite well, but there isn't the functionality of my favourite Windows apps.
So I'm left wondering: apart from being kind of cool in its own way, what does OS4 offer at this point? I loved my miggies, but I'm not a fanboy. My really good old Amiga apps have now been superceded by my Windows apps, and I'll probably buy a PS2 or PS3 pretty soon for gaming.
persia wrote:
It would be hard for Amiga to compete without a killer app, actually without any of the "standard" apps let alone a killer app. It can render web pages, can't handle html mail. It's video and audio editors are primitive. You can't open Adobe docs or see flash on youtube. You can't edit raw images. You can't edit and host webpages on it. You can't open a Word document. Who would buy it and why?
This is Amiga Inc's problem, they might love the idea of producing a new Amiga, but it can't compete in todays world and it would be a waste of money, so they talk and delay, then delay more and talk more.
Apart from the hobby/nostalgia factor, is there actually any real reason to use OS4? My reasons for using my last miggies, were some really good old aps, and great old games.
Are there aps for OS4 which can attract a user base?
I think it can run UAE, but can it run it as well as Windows on cheap, fast hardware? I presume it would make better use of an underutilised PPC accellerator on a classic miggy, but what would it actually be used for? Can the classic version take full advantage of the old hardware for running old apps?
For my computer usage, I currently find XP to be the most capable OS. It has the apps I need to do my work, and I can buy a copy for about $20 now. I use Xubuntu for other tasks at home. Xubuntu performs pretty well on modest hardware, and can do standard jobs quite well, but there isn't the functionality of my favourite Windows apps.
So I'm left wondering: apart from being kind of cool in its own way, what does OS4 offer at this point? I loved my miggies, but I'm not a fanboy. My really good old Amiga apps have now been superceded by my Windows apps, and I'll probably buy a PS2 or PS3 pretty soon for gaming.
issarad wrote:
I'd love to have OS4 on the iMac I just picked up locally for $40. BTW, it's a G3 350mhz, 512mb ram, 30gb drive, slot load cd-rom model.the idea of OS4 on it makes me giddy... It's a shame, you can barely pick up a stock A500 for the same price I got the mac for.
It would be hard for Amiga to compete without a killer app, actually without any of the "standard" apps let alone a killer app. It can render web pages, can't handle html mail. It's video and audio editors are primitive. You can't open Adobe docs or see flash on youtube. You can't edit raw images. You can't edit and host webpages on it. You can't open a Word document. Who would buy it and why?
persia wrote:
But again, is there anything in the A1 specs that isn't a PPC Mac? Well, except for legacy ports...
The future of the the Amiga of course is Intel AROS, but that's a different issue.
Apart from the hobby/nostalgia factor, is there actually any real reason to use OS4?
Are there aps for OS4 which can attract a user base?
persia wrote:
There's the problem, the user base for OS4 is so bloody tiny that no one will develop for it. Put it on old Macs and you'll have a potential base.
Methuselas wrote:
I'd almost be tempted to start a bounty for some code guru to "liberate" OS4 from its hardware dependencies...... :roll:
arnljot wrote:Quote
Methuselas wrote:
I'd almost be tempted to start a bounty for some code guru to "liberate" OS4 from its hardware dependencies...... :roll:
If there was a bounty: Are there coders with the skills? Most of the good ones are maybe busy with Aros, and we'd want to keep it that way? ;)
And the OS4 skilled coders would maybe betray their relationship with Hyperion if they solved such a bounty...
But I'd sponsor this bounty with a few coins... And surely if I knew that it wouldn't detract skills from the Aros pool :)
bloodline wrote:
A better, simpler, idea would be to modify PearPC to run AOS4... :-)
It's not piracy, if you buy a program it's yours to do with as you please so long as you don't distribute it to others.
What is intellectual property?
Intellectual property (IP) refers to 'property of the mind or intellect'. It can be an invention, trade mark, original design or the practical application of a good idea. In business terms, this means your proprietary knowledge.
Although IP is found in the physical entities resulting from creative effort, the IP itself can also be traded separately as an intangible asset.
Think of a CD: when you purchase the item, you receive a disc, a case and a booklet. However, you also receive the designs, logos and the music on the disc. These aspects of the CD aren't objects that you 'hold' (i.e. they are intangible), but they are considered property that can be traded.
By buying the disc, you have not gained ownership of the artwork and music. Rather, you have gained the right to use them in certain ways. This is because these products are the intellectual property of other entities and are protected by laws governing their use, ownership and reproduction. IP laws cover a broad range of products, including:
copyright - for original material in literary, artistic, dramatic or musical works, films, broadcasts, multimedia and computer programs
trademarks - for letters, words, phrases, sounds, smells, shapes, logos, pictures, aspects of packaging or a combination of these to distinguish the goods and services of one trader from those of another
designs - for the shape and appearance of manufactured goods
By buying the disc, you have not gained ownership of the artwork and music. Rather, you have gained the right to use them in certain ways. This is because these products are the intellectual property of other entities and are protected by laws governing their use, ownership and reproduction.
I'm not even sure if there is any DRM code in OS4; the A1 or classic Amiga hardware are dongles enough as-is.
Oliver wrote:
Please don't take this as trolling, but...
Apart from the hobby/nostalgia factor, is there actually any real reason to use OS4?
Raffaele wrote:
Snoopium, SnoopDOS or Scout, depending on the Amiga system that you are using, they tell you of everything running into it... (Malicious software could be easily spotted and deleted).
persia wrote:
It would be hard for Amiga to compete without a killer app, actually without any of the "standard" apps let alone a killer app. It can render web pages
can't handle html mail.
It's video and audio editors are primitive.
You can't open Adobe docs
or see flash on youtube.
You can't edit raw images.
You can't edit and host webpages on it.
You can't open a Word document.
Who would buy it and why?
DBAlex wrote:
@motorollin:
Holy Cr*p man!
Could you send the files to me perhaps? (Shall I PM you my Email?)
I have a late 2005 G4 Mini with a 64mb Radeon 9200, Will it work?
Thanks, Alex. :-o [Posted from the Mac Mini]
by AeroMan on 2007/12/30 1:44:26
@Raffaele
Wow, quite cool... ... I'm a bit outdated about Amiga Apps.
What is the base machine I need to run all of this ?
motorollin wrote:
I assume this is because my model of Mac Mini isn't the same as the one the boot CD is written for, which apparently causes problems with the video driver.
Colani1200 wrote:
Did you try this with the OS 4 classic CD? I read somewhere that the A1 version is needed, maybe that is the problem.
Hans wrote:
DRM code in UBoot? I doubt it. That would be the silliest place to put copy protection as replacing the bios would eliminate it. I'm not even sure if there is any DRM code in OS4; the A1 or classic Amiga hardware are dongles enough as-is.
Hans wrote:
I doubt that analysing UBoot would give you much knowledge about OS4 as it only affects the bootloader that copies the Kernel modules into RAM. I doubt that it would be too hard to write an alternative bootloader; the second-level booter basically searches for a kickstart directory and loads the modules as per instructions in the kicklayout file.
The real issue remains the drivers, and the fact that the HAL is compiled right into the kernel. It would make more sense to decompile the Loader module, and the kernel. Someone who could isolate the HAL code sections would be able to create a patch in such a way that the patch code contains no copyrighted IP. Replacing the HAL is a sizeable task.
motorollin wrote:
Well legal or not, I'm now convinced that this works. Having had another suggestion from AmigaMac, I got my copy of the OS4 boot CD to boot on my Mac Mini and get as far as launching ExecSG, and then it just went to a black screen.
Colani1200 wrote:
Did you try this with the OS 4 classic CD? I read somewhere that the A1 version is needed, maybe that is the problem.
HenryCase wrote:
I thought the BIOS would give us some clues about how the drivers worked, didn't realise the HAL (HAL = Hardware Abstraction Layer, right?) was purely run through software.
Hans, can you explain how the A1 version of OS4 boots (from your understanding of the matter)? I have never seen an A1 booting so my knowledge is limited. Does the system perform a POST?
OK... Wegster can decide if these stay or not... These are TEMPORARY... They may be removed soon...!
Enjoy! :-D
Where can I download the OS4 loader ISO?
DBAlex wrote:
The video is gone btw. was it removed by Amiga inc?
Thanks! Nope it has to be the mini at either 1.33ghz with 64mb 9200 or the 1.5ghz with the 64mb 9200...!
I'm guessing the hosting couldn't deal with all the traffic...
I don't think that the Ghz should make a difference, only the BIOS version.
CoolamigaN wrote:
Whether he gets unbanned or not, he shouldn't return there. Enough hostillity on EAB, specially on the thread AmigaMAC user created.
We also need to thank AmigaMac... I hope he turns up ...................................
motorollin wrote:QuoteCoolamigaN wrote:
Whether he gets unbanned or not, he shouldn't return there. Enough hostillity on EAB, specially on the thread AmigaMAC user created.
Agreed! I was quite shocked by some of the responses in that thread.
--
moto
spihunter wrote:
interesting.... Maybe the 1.5ghz G4 64MB Radeon is the "special" Mini it was made for?
Vlabguy1 wrote:
Apple really made a G4 1.5ghz MINI? I cannot find any info on this machine.
I only found the 1.25, and the 1.42ghz versions.mmm..
I did find info on the 1.5ghz intel Mac Mini..
Apple really made a G4 1.5ghz MINI? I cannot find any info on this machine.
I only found the 1.25, and the 1.42ghz versions.mmm..
I did find info on the 1.5ghz intel Mac Mini..
Please someone clarify, which model is required, and why doesn't the 1.25,1.42 Mac Mini work? I have a G4 1.67 PowerBook 17"..why wont it work on any of these machines..or even an older G4 @500mhz..
Please someone explain.
Thanks
Rich
A1260 wrote:
Unfortunately for you the OS4 fans, that dont seem to understand this not being a hoax is definitely not a very good thing. Instead you are mostly cheering. You all is too stupid to see the big picture. Reminds me of Lemmings.
The probability of new lawsuits materializing between old and new players has greatly increased.
DBAlex has now actually helped Amiga Inc, I think we have not seen any court document on this matter because it has not been proved working, now that Amiga Inc have proof you can expect a document stating HOW Hyperion has NOT been able to protect their IP and moving their Amiga Inc's operating system to another hardware that is not licenced, aka not AmigaOne. Amiga Inc probably have a copy of the leaked iso also.
Now Hyperion will go down and lose in court and your beloved AOS4.0 will be forever trapped.
Good luck in killing of AOS!!
:-x
[BTW you can find some of these Mini's for sale on Ebay.co.uk... However don't expect anything big yet, I only have the kernel booting of course... Its gonna take some work to push further]
HenryCase wrote:
@Hans
If UBoot powers up the system and tests it before handing control to OS4, then it already has the hardware drivers loaded, right (otherwise it would limit the tests it could perform)? If the hardware drivers are loaded by UBoot, why would OS4 then go to the trouble of loading them again? If your description is accurate then Hyperion have shot themselves in the foot by not using the most efficient loading method.
A1260 wrote:
Unfortunately for you the OS4 fans, that dont seem to understand this not being a hoax is definitely not a very good thing. Instead you are mostly cheering. You all is too stupid to see the big picture. Reminds me of Lemmings.
The probability of new lawsuits materializing between old and new players has greatly increased.
DBAlex has now actually helped Amiga Inc, I think we have not seen any court document on this matter because it has not been proved working, now that Amiga Inc have proof you can expect a document stating HOW Hyperion has NOT been able to protect their IP and moving their Amiga Inc's operating system to another hardware that is not licenced, aka not AmigaOne. Amiga Inc probably have a copy of the leaked iso also.
Now Hyperion will go down and lose in court and your beloved AOS4.0 will be forever trapped.
Good luck in killing of AOS!!
:-x
A1260 wrote:
Good luck in killing of AOS!!
:-x
Zac67 wrote:
Actually, enabling additional hardware to run AOS4 breathes some new life into the platform - with so few PPC boards around.
Shame its not official, but if it sells more AmigaOS 4 copies thats a good thing...
MarkWatson wrote:
Just to clarify, because I'm a bit swamped by posts here. Its a patch to the Classic edition right?
AI just don't like it, because that way it destroys the market for their overpriced (A1) or vapor (ACK) hardware dongles.
dammy wrote:QuoteAI just don't like it, because that way it destroys the market for their overpriced (A1) or vapor (ACK) hardware dongles.
That and piracy of their OS. I doubt they are too concerned with A1 owners booting the OS4 up on a mini-Mac, but the piracy of their OS by those not owning a A1 should be of high concern to them. I expect to see emergency petitions going to the Federal court sometime this week by AI and Itec.
This boot CD is useless without an actual copy of OS4. It just lets you boot OS4 itself.
dammy wrote:
Guess if there is no OS4 on ftp or bittorrent, it's all safe. :-D
That and piracy of their OS. I doubt they are too concerned with A1 owners booting the OS4 up on a mini-Mac, but the piracy of their OS by those not owning a A1 should be of high concern to them. I expect to see emergency petitions going to the Federal court sometime this week by AI and Itec.
dammy wrote:QuoteAI just don't like it, because that way it destroys the market for their overpriced (A1) or vapor (ACK) hardware dongles.
That and piracy of their OS. I doubt they are too concerned with A1 owners booting the OS4 up on a mini-Mac, but the piracy of their OS by those not owning a A1 should be of high concern to them. I expect to see emergency petitions going to the Federal court sometime this week by AI and Itec.
Dammy
humppa wrote:QuoteShame its not official, but if it sells more AmigaOS 4 copies thats a good thing...
Provided that it even runs with the Classic-version of OS4.
AFAIK, the A1-version of OS4 isn't/never was on sale (only bundled with the hw).
If it is the version that runs on a Classic Amiga w/PPC that is currently for sale I will place my order today in hopes that the bootloader will continue to be worked on until it is able to work with many more models of PPC Macs. I have a 1ghz PowerBook that needs repairs that I would love to run OS4 on.
humppa wrote:QuoteThe video is gone btw. was it removed by Amiga inc?
Maybe Alex got scared after he got the 3 PMs from Raffaele (which he wrote in a "comatose state") and accordingly removed the video. :lol:
Hi.
Regarding the thread about the project Moana files, I'd like to point out some facts that I would like to acknowledge as an AW.net moderator.
First of all, I'm the author of said port, done over an year ago on behalf of ACube, you can contact me directly at email removed .
In the thread I'm referring to, you (and others) are discussing the content of the CD, some even had it running on MacMinis. Such ISO image not only contains parts of OS4 (a commercial product) but also contain modules that are NOT part of either OS4 for A1 nor Classic, and are fully copyrighted by me. I never gave permission to anyone, least this AmigaMac guy, to distribute these files. So owning and using those modules is breaching my intellectual property (IP) and is a clear act of piracy.
So unless Aw.net is a forum which allows and is favorable to piracy, I suggest you post a notice on said thread and stop discussing about it. You can quote this message if you want.
As you probably have seen by the european lawsuit, between me, the two Friedens and against Hyperion and AInc, I'm more than willing to protect my IP from piracy or any other form of unauthorized use.
For the record, that ISO image was obtained from a stolen laptop and there is a police report about that (in the USA). That AmigaMac guy is not some benefactor, he's a criminal.
So far I hadn't written or posted anything because I didn't want to stir up more mess that it was already, and because the (micro) kernel on that ISO image will crash after few minutes of intensive use.
But seeing one of the moderators of Aw.net happily displaying a list of stolen files seems an endorsement of piracy from AW.net. I can't let it pass.
A1260 wrote:
Unfortunately for you the OS4 fans, that dont seem to understand this not being a hoax is definitely not a very good thing. Instead you are mostly cheering. You all is too stupid to see the big picture. Reminds me of Lemmings.
The probability of new lawsuits materializing between old and new players has greatly increased.
DBAlex has now actually helped Amiga Inc, I think we have not seen any court document on this matter because it has not been proved working, now that Amiga Inc have proof you can expect a document stating HOW Hyperion has NOT been able to protect their IP and moving their Amiga Inc's operating system to another hardware that is not licenced, aka not AmigaOne. Amiga Inc probably have a copy of the leaked iso also.
If Andrea Vallinotto succeded in realizing the AmigaOS on Mac Kernel, then HE IS THE BEST PROGRAMMER EVER...
He who made this loader deserves all our RESPECT!
He realized what none believed it was possible... Running AmigaOS on Mac!
AmiGR wrote:
best programmer ever for porting the AmigaOS 4 boot loader to Open Firmware and adapting the HAL for the Mini's hardware is not exactly an insane programming feat.
Best is a relative term. Besides, sometimes it's not what you do, it's how much your work is appreciated.
A1260 wrote:
Now Hyperion will go down and lose in court and your beloved AOS4.0 will be forever trapped.
Good luck in killing of AOS!!
A1260 wrote:
read here you pirates!...
Hans wrote:
The VGABios is great for displaying text-mode graphics, but not much else. Likewise, the BIOS IDE drivers are pretty much the bare minimum needed to read the disks. These drivers aren't Amiga OS drivers at all.
1. AInc already knew about Project Moana's existence (which is what we could have the code for here).
2. Hyperion have never publicly endorsed Moana, the work was done by ACube, who had access to the source code as a trusted partner/developer. Therefore, Hyperion have nothing to do with this, and it won't affect the outcome of the court cases.
AmiGR wrote:
I'm just saying that Raffaele doesn't always need to go to such extremes.
Considering that this software could help to alleviate the dire shortage of suitable hardware, some may think it's worthy of extreme praise.
dammy wrote:
No, it should be Hyperion's issue as they authorized Acube access to AI's IP.
A1260 wrote:
as this aint enough there will not be any new updates of the aos because you killed of the business for these small companies like hyperion.
A1260 wrote:
so continue with your greedy ways of wanting everything free and act like children. when aos4.0 is dead its your fault, period!
A1260 wrote:
this is a niche market and a hobby os the companies behind it need to make a living you know, this is not the way to do it. while you other here dont care and think this will be the solution to shortage of suitable hardware. for a little time it may be true but then these few mac's that run this will be old and very popular on ebay, we will again have ridiculous high prices and people start whining. as this aint enough there will not be any new updates of the aos because you killed of the business for these small companies like hyperion. what then? you ever thing of it?... so continue with your greedy ways of wanting everything free and act like children. when aos4.0 is dead its your fault, period!.
:-x
Quote:
dammy wrote:
No, it should be Hyperion's issue as they authorized Acube access to AI's IP.
But did they break the terms of the contract?
Look at page 31 of this document:
http://merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/35-5decmcewenexhibit5show_case_doc.pdf
Discussing Moana, Bill McEwan says:
"How do you have access to OS 4 source code?"
Nicola Morocutti replies:
"We don't have direct access to the source... we are working with some Italian OS4 developers and with Hyperion as well."
Nicola goes on to say that Hyperion had only really acted as consultants. Show me the part of Hyperion's contract where this consultation is illegal.
dammy wrote:
Reread what I said please as I didn't say it was illegal contractually for Hyperion to work with OS4 Devs. Hyperion did have a responsibility to make reasonable and prudent safe guards of their partner's IP when dealing with third parties which seems not to have happened in this situtation. That is what AI can hammer Hyperion on.
HenryCase wrote:
http://mac-on-linux.sourceforge.net/
Are there any other VM solutions we could use?
I for one have been wanting to buy OS4 even since I used a development 68k version back in 2003. An AmigaOne was out of my price range then, and I sold my BlizzardPPC back in 2000. I've been waiting over 4 years to buy OS4, enough is enough. If I can get it working on my PC under emulation, or on an old Mac I'll pay Hyperion for a copy and do it. Otherwise God know how much longer Amiga Inc will keep us waiting for new hardware.
Why can't I buy the Classic version from Amikit? Admittedly it will need some playing with, but everything should be there to get it working.
HenryCase wrote:QuoteHans wrote:
The VGABios is great for displaying text-mode graphics, but not much else. Likewise, the BIOS IDE drivers are pretty much the bare minimum needed to read the disks. These drivers aren't Amiga OS drivers at all.
Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me Hans, I've still got a lot to learn about computer architecture.
Okay, so the main focus of our research efforts should be on deconstructing the HAL. Could we use a PC Oscilloscope (such as this one: http://www.picotech.com/highperformance-oscilloscopes.html) to probe the control and data lines of an A1 to construct a picture of how the HAL works, or is there an easier way?
Hans_ wrote:
Hyperion have stated that they're committed to expanding the amount of hardware that OS4 will run on. I hope that they can deliver, despite the lawsuits. They have the source code and the expertise, and they don't have to reverse engineer anything.
I'm shure a few people are scratching their heads why they didn't release OS4 for Mac in the first place,
HenryCase wrote:
How about an OS4 implementation layer for AROS? It wouldn't be as much work as when the AROS team started with OS 3.1 compatibility, as it could be built on top of the existing work. The OS4 SDK has been released, wouldn't an AROS implementation of this be enough to run OS4 apps?
HenryCase wrote:
@Hans
I would be interested in using AROS as a platform for creating new apps (that would run on AROS and OS4) so recompiling wouldn't be a problem. Anything that makes porting between the two systems would be beneficial. Would the endianness really have that much affect? After all, 68K endianness is different to x86 endianness but that didn't stop OS 3.1 being recreated.
Hans_ wrote:
AROS was about source-compatibility so OS4 apps won't run unless recompiled for AROS on whatever processor AROS is running on. That's ignoring the endianness issues of-course. As you've already realized, it would also be a big job.
They could replicate the OS4 API, but IIRC, they don't like OS4's new library interfaces concept. Plus it looks as though they're starting to deviate from the 3.1 API and developing their own ones. You could try, but I'd expect considerable resistance from the current AROS devs.
Fats wrote:Quote
Hans_ wrote:
AROS was about source-compatibility so OS4 apps won't run unless recompiled for AROS on whatever processor AROS is running on. That's ignoring the endianness issues of-course. As you've already realized, it would also be a big job.
AROS was about binary compatibility on m68k and source compatbility for non-amiga CPUs.
I don't see why there would be a big resistance from the developers if somebody makes an OS4 compatible AROS version. The mentality is that each developer should be able to do with the open-source source code what he likes. That is the spirit.
I myself am a core AROS developer and I do plan in the future to make two PPC versions of AROS possible. One binary compatible with MorhOS and one compatible with OS4. First I want to finish the i386 ABI though.
One of the biggest hurdles IMO for true OS4 compatibility is an open-source Reaction implementation.
So, here goes... if this doesn't work, nothing will:
For starters, stop the booting sequence and enter the OF prompt by pressing Ctrl-Alt-O-F *right* after the USB keyboard gets detected.
Now, type exactly that:
boot cd:\\slb
Make sure you use the 'MM_Full_silent_USB' configuration, number 5 probably.
You can update those old kickmodules, but *DON'T DO ANYTHING* to the following files (including kernel files):
battclock.resource-via.kmod
macminiide.device.kmod
dbdma.library
nvram_OF.resource.kmod
If you want to do an iso from those files, you can easly use mkisoft by typing:
mkisofs -v -o-R -D -iso-level 3 -h -part -mac-name
-hfs-bless/l
What's more, you can partition the HDD with workbench on the mini, but it needs booting from the CD anyways.
PS: Got from an anonymous good soul...
Info elsewhere seem to sugest that full Os4 on Mac is possible I like to post a Quote originally posted on EAB the poster said the Info came an anonymous good soul at the bottom it sugests partitioning the HD with workbench but still booting from CD?
Hans_ wrote:
Maybe you should tell some of the more vocal AROS advocates to STFU then. The impression that I got was that AROS developers have no interest in OS4 compatibility at all, see it as inferior, blah blah blah.
Zac67 wrote:
Does anyone know, how much OS4 for classic and OS4 for A1 actually differ?
Maybe you should tell some of the more vocal AROS advocates to STFU then. The impression that I got was that AROS developers have no interest in OS4 compatibility at all, see it as inferior, blah blah blah.
whabang wrote:
--ZIP--
As for the piracy bit: If someone manages to get an implementation of OS4 Classic running on a PPC Mac, then i _will_ buy a copy of it. Period.
That is not piracy, no matter how you put it, and it will support the platform.
Fats wrote:
I myself am a core AROS developer and I do plan in the future to make two PPC versions of AROS possible. One binary compatible with MorhOS and one compatible with OS4. First I want to finish the i386 ABI though.
After all, if Mac OsX can run, why couldn't this OS.
lovrenco wrote:
After all, if Mac OsX can run, why couldn't this OS.
Would perhaps the solution be to write an HFS file system for OS 4?
Tron2k2 wrote:
This is slightly OT, but I'd love to get my hands on the CAD software on that Mac! I periodically do file conversion on ancient Mac CAD files (think OS 8.x era) and have a lot of trouble reading them properly with modern CAD software for the Mac, even in Classic mode. So, I hope you didn't erase that old copy of CADintosh yet!
Can you PM me with any software availability? And before the anti-piracy crowd chimes in-the companies that made these old softwares don't exist anymore for the most part, and those who do don't support their ancient software or offer it for sale, believe me I've tried! You can't even find it on eBay..
motorollin wrote:
@bloodline
Email me if you want to give Moana a try on that PowerMac (and don't already have it)
Tron2k2 wrote:
Here's an eBay auction with what you need..
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEC-MUILTSYNC-15-PIN-MAC-TO-15-PIN-VGA-GENDER-CHANGER_W0QQitemZ5137317595QQihZ018QQcategoryZ171QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
That way you can use your normal VGA monitor with the Mac, there are similar cheap ADB keyboards and mice available on eBay as well. I'm kind of surprised that no computer places around you have any ADB stuff, most of them around here do. There are recycling places here that sell the nicer stuff they get in to be recycled, and they always keep some mac stuff around as well.
motorollin wrote:
Is this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VGA-TO-APPLE-MAC-MACINTOSH-MONITOR-ADAPTOR_W0QQitemZ160242030746QQihZ006QQcategoryZ4601QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) the VGA adapter you need?
--
moto
motorollin wrote:
Cheapskate :-P
--
moto
motorollin wrote:
Can those old machines do target disk mode or anything similar?
--
moto
motorollin wrote:
Oh yeah... off to eBay then...
--
moto
motorollin wrote:
Bummer... can you take the disk out and put it in a caddy? Might enable you to edit some BSD config file to enable telnet or AFP.
--
moto
bloodline wrote:
The Hard disk is SCSI...
bloodline wrote:
Remember that this machine is running Mac OS8... it's got no BSD heritage...
bloodline wrote:
-Edit- I have noticed that the CD drive is IDE... and there is a spare IDE port on the MOBO... I wonder what I can do with that?
motorollin wrote:Quotebloodline wrote:
The Hard disk is SCSI...
I wonder if an Amiga could access it through ShapeShifter?
Quotebloodline wrote:
Remember that this machine is running Mac OS8... it's got no BSD heritage...
I didn't know there was a PPC version of OS8. No idea how to do anything in that case!
Quotebloodline wrote:
-Edit- I have noticed that the CD drive is IDE... and there is a spare IDE port on the MOBO... I wonder what I can do with that?
Connect IDE devices to it? ;-)
bloodline wrote:Quotemotorollin wrote:
I wonder if an Amiga could access it through ShapeShifter?
Yeah... if I had a SCSI interface on any of my Amigas...
bloodline wrote:Quotemotorollin wrote:
Connect IDE devices to it? ;-)
Hmmm... but to what end?
motorollin wrote:Quotebloodline wrote:Quotemotorollin wrote:
I wonder if an Amiga could access it through ShapeShifter?
Yeah... if I had a SCSI interface on any of my Amigas...
I have... ;-)
Quotebloodline wrote:Quotemotorollin wrote:
Connect IDE devices to it? ;-)
Hmmm... but to what end?
I know it would be pretty pointless in this case - I was just being facetious :-D
ncafferkey wrote:
You should be able to get an Open Firmware interface on the serial port, but you might need to hold down a keyboard combination to get to it.
niklasni1 wrote:
A 7600 is not going to have any networking servers running by default. The only FTP/HTTP servers were 3rd party, too.
It has got two serial ports (on mini-DIN socets), marked modem and printer. Both can be connected to PC serial ports (both 9 and 25 pin) with a simple mechanical adaptor.
But even if you got into OpenFirmware via serial, the only thing you would be able to do was boot it into MacOS 8.6 or whatever's on it and there's no way to interact with that over serial line.
Basically, no keyboard and monitor == useless Mac. It will boot up without a keyboard attached, though (no need to Press F1 to Resume), but you can do fuck all with it unless it's been configured first.
I might pay you for the RAM and G3 card, though..
niklasni1 wrote:
Actually, someone with a mack might be able to put together a boot ISO for you with an FTP server on it which you could burn.
You'd need to access the firmware (or a keyboard) to boot from the CD, though..
bloodline wrote:Quote
niklasni1 wrote:
Actually, someone with a mack might be able to put together a boot ISO for you with an FTP server on it which you could burn.
I like that thinking... perhaps a Boot CD with VNC on it?Quote
You'd need to access the firmware (or a keyboard) to boot from the CD, though..
BUM!!!! :-x
bloodline wrote:
You can buy the CPU card new from Sonnet for $50 (http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_32&products_id=44) and I'm pretty sure the ram would cost more to send than you could pick up from you local junk store... :-/
niklasni1 wrote:Quote
bloodline wrote:
You can buy the CPU card new from Sonnet for $50 (http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_32&products_id=44) and I'm pretty sure the ram would cost more to send than you could pick up from you local junk store... :-/
Sonnet don't sell to Europe from their site.
The RAM is actually a special type (5v 168 pin, as opposed to the 3.3v 168 pin which was used in PCs at the time) and, whilst not exactly 'rare' is not quite /that/ common either... Depending on how many chips makes up your 256MB set and how easy it would be to get money to you, I might actually be genuinely interested.
DBAlex wrote:
I know a guy who has this installed on a HD...
dammy wrote:QuoteThis boot CD is useless without an actual copy of OS4. It just lets you boot OS4 itself.
Guess if there is no OS4 on ftp or bittorrent, it's all safe. :-D
Dammy
A1260 wrote:
this is a niche market and a hobby os the companies behind it need to make a living you know, this is not the way to do it. while you other here dont care and think this will be the solution to shortage of suitable hardware. for a little time it may be true but then these few mac's that run this will be old and very popular on ebay, we will again have ridiculous high prices and people start whining. as this aint enough there will not be any new updates of the aos because you killed of the business for these small companies like hyperion. what then? you ever thing of it?... so continue with your greedy ways of wanting everything free and act like children. when aos4.0 is dead its your fault, period!.
:-x
_ThEcRoW wrote:
Bloodline, haven't read the entire thread but saw somewhere boot cd. Are you working on a os4 boot cd for macs?
I'm higly interested.
Thanks in advance!!!
persia wrote:
Yeah, I don't get it, either Hyperion has rights to OS 4 or the don't. If they do then why don't they produce a version that runs on Macs. If they don't have rights then they are sunk anyway, so why wait for the court?
motorollin wrote:
So if Hyp win, they get rights to release OS4 for other platforms? Is that right?
--
moto
odin wrote:
A. Inc has to be a money laundering outfit for that Finnish investor-bloke. It's the only logical explanation why he'd put in money in something ridiculous like A. Inc.
Details for Amiga OS 4.0 (w/July 2007 Updates) Install CD for Mac Mini G
Created by krismiszcz 13 hours ago
Applications : Macintosh : English
Amiga OS 4.0 (w/July 2007 Updates) Install CD for Mac Mini G4 (Moana Loader)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This CD will allow you to boot the Amiga OS 4.0 kernel and run the Amiga OS 4.0 installer.
The knows issues with the Moana loader are:
* Displays image that USB stack has not been loaded (USB keyboards and mice work)
* Doesn't detect the Mac Mini built-in Ethernet
* Doesn't detect the Mac Mini AirPort Extreme card
* Doesn't detect the Mac Mini Bluetooth device
* Probably a lot more I've not come across yet!
Testing has been performed with a Mac Mini G4 with the following specs:
Model Name: Mac mini
Model Identifier: PowerMac10,2
Processor Name: PowerPC G4 (1.2)
Processor Speed: 1.5 GHz
Number Of CPUs: 1
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 1 GB
Bus Speed: 167 MHz
Boot ROM Version: 4.9.4f0
This CD may/may not work on other Mac Mini G4 models.
Instructions for booting:
-------------------------
1) Boot into Open Firmware (Hold down "Option" "Command" "o" "f" when powering on)
2) First time users will only need to enter the following command once:
setenv boota-device cd:
3) Begin loading the OS 4.0 kernel/kickstart by typing in the following command:
boot cd:slb_v2
4) Select either option:
"1. Amiga OS 4.x: CDROM MM_Full_silent_USB" - for Mac Mini G4 1.5GHz/64MB Radeon models
"2. Amiga OS 4.x: CDROM MM_Full_silent_USB_ATI_safe" - for all other Mac Mini G4 models
5) Press "Enter" at the "Installed mem: 1024 mega bega" prompt
6) Press "Enter" at the "About to build the copy of the OF tree; Code start at 0x01800000; press any key" prompt
7) Press "Enter" at the "All init done; about to kill OF and start ExecSG; press any key" prompt
At this point, the screen should turn black and after a few seconds, the CD drive will spin up.
Eventually you'll see an AmigaDOS window displaying the message "USB stack not running.". Oddly enough, USB keyboards and mice seem to work.
7) You'll be greeted with a "Welcome to the Amiga OS 4.0 Install CD" window, click on "Proceed"
On the next window, select your language, country and time zone and click "Use"
9) A window will pop up and will ask how the system time should be updated. Click on "System"
10) A window will pop up with the message "Your system time has been updated". Click on "OK"
11) Shortly after, a window will appear to advise you that you must select a keyboard. Click "OK"
12) Select your keyboard and click "Use"
If the start up appears to stall between steps 10 and 11, press "Ctrl C" and you should see a "WAIT: ***Break" message appear. The installer will now continue.
Good luck!
--
Peers: 25 seeders, 5 leechers, 30 total
Size: 49.97 MB
persia wrote:
All the stuff on TPB is old and not working, has anybody gotten OS 4.1 working on a PPC Mac?