Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: redrumloa on November 29, 2007, 10:56:33 PM
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Look HERE (http://www.news.com/Dell-Apple-should-close-shop/2100-1001_3-203937.html) for a blast from the past.
Published: October 6, 1997, 2:00 PM PDT
ORLANDO, Florida--When it comes to the state of Apple Computer, everyone has an opinion.
And at the Gartner Symposium and ITxpo97 here today, the CEO of competitor Dell Computer added his voice to the chorus when asked what could be done to fix the Mac maker. His solution was a drastic one.
"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders," Michael Dell said before a crowd of several thousand IT executives.
What has happened since then? Well look HERE (http://charts.barchart.com/chart.asp?sym=AAPL&data=G&date=112907&den=MED&divd=n&evnt=ADV&grid=Y&jav=ADV&size=D&sky=N&sly=N&vol=Y&late=Y&ch1=011&arga=&argb=&argc=&ov1=&argd=&arge=&argf=&ch2=&argg=&argh=&argi=&ov2=&argj=&argk=&argl=&comp1=dell&code=BSTKIC&org=stk) to this 10 year chart. Apple's stock is up ~2700% in the last 10 years, Dell's stock is flat lined over 10 years.
Why, what happened? Well Dell just seems to keep posting disapointing earnings (http://dailybriefing.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2007/11/29/weak-outlook-says-sell-dell/?source=yahoo_quote). Today they reported and it's stock price is down 10% after hours.
I think Mr Dell should shut down shop and give the money back to the shareholders :roflmao:
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That's a good catch.
What can you say but, very funny!! :lol:
I guess that's the difference between inovating and just putting out the same sort of blackish/brown poop colored brick style PCs for 10 years.
Mr. Dell do you think I'll be buying someone a brownish poop brick PC for Christmas or an Ipod?? ;-)
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IMO it is really bad form for the CEO of a large company to make such comments about a competitor, especially in front of a crowd of thousands of IT professionals. Talk about being a {bleep}y a**hole and having your words come back to bite you hard. :crazy:
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redrumloa wrote:
Apple's stock is up ~2700% in the last 10 years, Dell's stock is flat lined over 10 years.
If you're going to throw useless statistics out, then why not look at both companies for the last 15 years, 20 years, 25 years? It flips the charts quite nicely. The fact is Apple stock in 1997 was <$4. There are only two ways to go from there, bankrupt or up.
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If you're going to throw useless statistics out, then why not look at both companies for the last 15 years, 20 years, 25 years?
Because he made his remark 10 years ago, I chose a 10 year chart. That only makes sense.
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redrumloa wrote:
Because he made his remark 10 years ago, I chose a 10 year chart. That only makes sense.
I see your point.
But, at that point the Apple Computer stock was down ~58% (and still falling) for the last 10 years and was basically worthless. Dell, on the other hand was up ~14,000% for the same period. So, I'd say at the time Dell was probably right.
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So, I'd say at the time Dell was probably right.
Right that Apple should have closed shop? It was dark days for Apple for sure, but I don't agree with the statement. Apple went on to become one of the greatest stories tech has ever seen.
My main point is it was a stupid statement for a man in his position, to say about a competitor, in front of thousands of IT pros. I bet he wishes he never made such a statement, it probably will come back to bite him. Steve Jobs was just named most powerful businessman (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20071129/job-forbes-influenc-list-top.htm) by Forbes. Michael Dell otoh has calls for his ouster. What if the most powerful businessman made such statements about him and Dell in 2007? :-D
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redrumloa wrote:
My main point is it was a stupid statement for a man in his position, to say about a competitor, in front of thousands of IT pros.
Lots of CEO types do this. In fact, the statement in question is a response to mud slinging by Steve Jobs towards Dell. Ever seen Triumph of the Nerds? Jobs slams Microsoft at every turn, and continues to do so to this day. So, should the "Forbes Most Powerful Business Person" do this?
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It's always nice to be on the winning side when the time for hindsight arrives, isn't it?
C'mon, they're just comp.. Oh wait, this is an Amiga forum..
/me backs away slowly
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adolescent wrote:
Ever seen Triumph of the Nerds? Jobs slams Microsoft at every turn, and continues to do so to this day. So, should the "Forbes Most Powerful Business Person" do this?
Never seen Triumph of the nerds. OTOH I do see a point you are making, the switch commercials are a bit of a slam..
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If Apple were to release OSX for PC, do you think they would be elevated to MSoft status?
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Michael Dell is a bit of an arsehole, he also dissed the one laptop per child initiative.
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Edit: Removed message. Was thinking of another initiative, not the OLPC.
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If Apple were to release OSX for PC, do you think they would be elevated to MSoft status?
That's a good question, would OS X run and run well on every hardware configuration that Windows and Windows Vista does? Could it support all of the chipsets and oddball hardware that Microsoft has to support? Would it support all of the vintage and out of date hardware? That's the real question because OSX right now only has to support a few limited configurations of hardware..
I'd even suggest after reading this below, that a lot of Mac people still depend on Windows...
Where Windows runs into problems (and specific implementations of Unix-like OSes) is support for chipsets and drivers for hardware that has to be invented and supported. Apple supporting "everything" would have a more difficult time than it does now..
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/business_applications/microsofts_big_mac_sales.html
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Apple's stock price didn't change much with the introduction of the colorful iMacs and OSX, though. It's the iPod that did it, transforming Apple from a computer company into a media company.
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@DonnyEMU
Of course it would run, OS X is based heavily on Unix. The thing about hardware is this... hardware will run on *any* OS as long as drivers for that OS are coded. Also OS X has alot of drivers for hardware built in.
Linux/Unix is very stable on x86/x86-64 systems, thus OS X should be just as stable as well. However you gotta remember something, Apple Computer is a systems company, not an OS only company, so of course they are going to intentionally make their main OS' kernel 100% compatible for a specific chipset that's in their systems.
As for "oddball" hardware... that's a very smart thing for Apple to not generally support them; that's called great Quality Control, and ensures a tight smooth running computer.
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@DonnyEMU
Did you actually read the link you posted ? And understood it word by word ?
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Dell = **** Computers....
Don't like them and never will no matter what anyone says.
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redrumloa wrote:
I think Mr Dell should shut down shop and give the money back to the shareholders :roflmao:
Stop that! I'm too lazy to get myself a new job! ;-)
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as far as i'm concerned it was probably that comment that got jobs off his arse to do something. mac was always a grandads computer and was at the beggining unupgradable (imho) needing you to buy a new box every couple of years and only keeping with the appearence of upgradability so people didn't go buy a pc. i'm sure the mac has had it's share of slamming over the years from amiga users so nuff said!
also the success of the mac is down to completely selling out and using the linux opperating system.
i doubt the ipod is as successfull out of america... and i'm sure in part apple where in a consortium to get places like all of mp3 shut down when profits wain.
i'd like to see a european computer/ os come out but i wonder if behind the scenes there is a vested interest in keeping the computing world all american? 8-)
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monami wrote:
as far as i'm concerned it was probably that comment that got jobs off his arse to do something. mac was always a grandads computer and was at the beggining unupgradable (imho) needing you to buy a new box every couple of years and only keeping with the appearence of upgradability so people didn't go buy a pc.
Not too dissimilar to the Amiga then... :crazy:
i'm sure the mac has had it's share of slamming over the years from amiga users so nuff said!
also the success of the mac is down to completely selling out and using the linux opperating system.
MacOSX is actually built from NeXTStep (built on a hybrid FreeBSD Mach3.0 Kernel).
i doubt the ipod is as successfull out of america... and i'm sure in part apple where in a consortium to get places like all of mp3 shut down when profits wain.
As I sit here on on the Tube in London... every third person has an iPod...
i'd like to see a european computer/ os come out but i wonder if behind the scenes there is a vested interest in keeping the computing world all american? 8-)
Apart from RiscOS... there hasn't been a modern mainstream European OS... And I'm really not keen on RiscOS :-)
-Edit- Oh well... Linux was originally European... And AROS is pan global :-)
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Waccoon wrote:
Apple's stock price didn't change much with the introduction of the colorful iMacs and OSX, though. It's the iPod that did it, transforming Apple from a computer company into a media company.
True, it was the iPod that turned the company around. However there has been the Halo Effect driving sales to the Mac. Now the Mac itself is a main driver for PPS appreciation. Investors are expecting an eventually slowing of iPod sales, though slowing has not happened yet.
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redrumloa wrote:
Waccoon wrote:
Apple's stock price didn't change much with the introduction of the colorful iMacs and OSX, though. It's the iPod that did it, transforming Apple from a computer company into a media company.
I wish the Ipod thing would go away so every crappy electronic device would no longer have an 'I' or other character in front of its name.
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@ bloodline
i bet there were 10 times the amount of mp3 sold players to 1 ipod at least. not including the psp, ds/ sp, gp2x... they do count as mp3 players but then they aren't pocket size of course.
my sisters husband had an ipod. and broke it in a week. i guess you shouldn't go running with it. have apple caught up to flash memory yet? (i actually told him not to use it for jogging. he seemed to think it should be capable of reasonable use.)
as far as american influence on the computing world i wish for a different philosophy. there is more to buisness than money! i don't like gates or jobs or this dell guy or there infighting? (it's the first i've heard of him.) i prefer linux so far.
as far as risc os goes... i have 3 risc os 3 machines and when i get a chance they're off to ebay. the bbc name and education stuck with acorn in a way that was hard to shake off. they weren't gaming machines.
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Looking at both companies they pose different strategies in the computer/server markets. I believe that Mr. Dell got "Schooled" to the finer points of innovation, creativity, and market awareness. I like Apple computers(I own one and a few PC's), I believe Dell produces good products although due to their quick growth of the past few years their customer satisfaction ratings has taken a hit because of their inability to provide a timely after sale customer service, were Apple's has improved. The old adage still holds true today, if you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all.
MIke
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I loved Dell's comment when I heard it... What a riot!
This was before Engadget'S "CE-Oh no he didn't!" segments.
Jobs is the KING of CE-Oh no he didn't!
Remember the jump to RISC PPC?
Jobs "The current 68K and x86 architecture will not be able to adapt to RISC, and have at best 2 generations - or 5 years of life left."
Remember the jump from Apple to NeXT?
Jobs: "The platform that Apple now uses has at best 2 generations - or 5 years of life left."
Remember the jump from PPC to x86?
Jobs: "Intel (x86) offers us a stronger processor roadmap."
Oddly, this latest time he didn’t say “what we’ve abandoned has at best 5 years of life left in it.” Maybe he finally learned his lesson?
Could it be that Michael Dell really did go to Microsoft and threaten them to prevent Xbox 360 from running an PPC version (with Rosetta-like realtime translation for x86 apps) of Windows XP?
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making predictions about the world of tech and computing in general is risky. at the time dells comments about apples tech worth were right on the money. but people have never bought mac because they are the most technologically advanced or capable or inexpensive. they buy them because they are macs.
some people will buy almost anything apple. and thats fine we do the same thing with commodore stuff.
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Apple came very close to closing shop, and Nintendo was not far away before they came out with the Wii.
Glad Apple did not die... I now have two of them and am happy.
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Terse wrote:
Remember the jump from Apple to NeXT?
Jobs: "The platform that Apple now uses has at best 2 generations - or 5 years of life left."
If Apple had stayed with their "classic" OS it would be dead now .... instead Apple rebranded NeXTStep and became stronger than ever.
He was also right on the death of the 68k.... how long has it been since a 680x0 has been on par with other desktop-CPUs ?
So he was only wrong bout x86, but how much do today RISC-hidden-behind-a-CISC-interface zombies have to do with the 486s popular back when he made that prediction ?
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sdyates wrote:
Apple came very close to closing shop, and Nintendo was not far away before they came out with the Wii.
Rubbish. Nintendo were not anywhere close to 'closing up shop'. The DS was already a hot seller and before that the Gameboy Advance was printing them money.
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Kronos wrote:
He was also right on the death of the 68k.... how long has it been since a 680x0 has been on par with other desktop-CPUs ?
So he was only wrong bout x86, but how much do today RISC-hidden-behind-a-CISC-interface zombies have to do with the 486s popular back when he made that prediction ?
But had the industry (particularly Apple) continued to back the 68K would it not also have gone the RISC-and-CISC route too?
I do agree that apple made the right choice in backing x86. It makes litle sense to fight a whole industry by almost completely bankrolling the opposing technology. Jobs said as much this last time with the switch to x86.
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CEO's are only human.
Human beings say stupid sh*t all the time.
Just take a look around these forum. :-D
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Keep in mind I own several machines including Amigas, Windows machines, and some intel macs and power pc macs..
Apple gets away with not having the issues that Microsoft does by limiting their configurations and things that they support. Plus they handle 3rd party driver development quite differently.
Personally I feel if Microsoft only had a family of one type of Motherboard, the hardware/software would do just as well with it..
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coldfish wrote:
CEO's are only human.
Human beings say stupid sh*t all the time.
Too true. Remember Gates' comment about 640k RAM being sufficient for everyone?
Regarding the comment by Michael Dell, it's better than the friendly comments Gates would make while he plans your demise. Bill once said that OS/2 would be better than further development of Windows 3.x, then stuck the knife in with Win95. At least you know where you stand with Dell.
________
Vaporizer guide (http://howtomakeavaporizer.info/)
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Terse wrote:
But had the industry (particularly Apple) continued to back the 68K would it not also have gone the RISC-and-CISC route too?
To be fair RISC and CISC don't really exist any more, all CPUs now are hybrids of those old concepts. As luck would have it, the x86 is quite well suited to this... The 68k is too orthogonal, it's great for asm coders but not for modern CPU designs. You have to hack the ISA to much and it loses compatibility and thus there is no point!