Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: lionstorm on July 14, 2003, 07:37:14 AM
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I received my board 1 month but lack a strong psu so now I got it but at power, the cpu fan does not spin and there is no video output from my AGP radeon 7500. But the green led on the moterboard is working. How do I continue ?
Lio
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check your RAM
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RAMcolumn/row configurations supported by the memory controller:
Sbk Raddr Caddr MB
1, 11, 8, 8,
1, 11, 9, 16,
1, 11, 10, 32,
2, 12, 8, 32,
2, 12, 9, 64,
2, 12, 10, 128,
2, 12, 11, 256,
2, 13, 11, 512,
2, 13, 9, 128,
2, 13, 10, 256,
Sbk is the number of banks, RAddr and CAddr are row and column address
bits, and MB is the resulting size of the module.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
(I am quoting the highest authority in this information; Hans-Joerg himself!)
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I bought the recommended registered ram, 512Mo kinston. What about the fan not spinning (fan power cable is connected somewhere on the motherboard, on the left side of the mainboard) ?
Lio
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Which brand is your PSU and how many Watts?
Try that PSU in a PC.
Find an Antec PSU and buy it.
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psu is 300W as recommended.
Lio
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Stupid check: That's exactly what happens on my PC when the floppy power connector is plugged in backwards.
BTW, how many AmigaOne users hook up a floppy?
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no drive connected ATM, only the mainboard, the graphic card, the sound card and Ram.
Lio
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I have a floppy hooked up. but its:
a) knackered or the A1 doesnt like Amiga DD Floppies
b) not actually screwed in: its 'floating' by the tower !
@ Lionstorm : did you go through and check all the jumpers etc as detailed in the quickstart guide ?
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@Agafaster: I don't think anything other than Amigas like Amiga DD Floppies. I was hoping the AmigaOne would have an optional legacy PCI card with a true Amiga floppy controller on it, or something.
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lion: did u connect the power properly? ,
my guess is that your atx aint cutting the on power when u start it , when u press the ON button it should just give power for a little sec and then cut it.
also not that u need 2 switches normally,
(1 main on/off (on psu) and 1 normal on/off switch ...)
you could always just take a screwdriver and tap the pins(2 pins) (just tap 1 time , short circuit em)on the motherboard to get it running (o see if its the prob) , i need to check my mobo to tell you where tough, hopefully someone else can tell u as i will be away for 2 days now..
anyway u must have this fuction working (the button]/pins connected with a proper connector)
cheers
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@ agafaster : yes I checked jumpers and etc several times. Do I expect a video output without the ram plugged ?
Lio
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lionstorm wrote:
Do I expect a video output without the ram plugged ?
Possibly, but then the U-Boot has code to execute the BIOS on graphics cards, and that would probably need RAM to work.
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@lempkee : I think I did it right since the green led on the motherboard is lighting so something is working but the fan cooler on top of the daughter ppc card does not spin although it is connected. I did not take care if the fan on the top of the radeon graphic card is spinning. I Have to check that when I go home.
AFAIK the tower I just bought is having only one button (it is a vivid acryl from suntek)
Lio
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First and formost, try a different power supply. I've seen this happen on PC's many times where the system powers on, the leds light up, but no video and no "post beeps"... Usually changing the power supply will take care of it. Although, it could be signs of something even worse....
Also try to reseat your AGP card, as most AGP slots require an extra push to get the card seated all the way down (not with excessive force though). It may look like it is inserted, but may not be seated completely down. That will also cause no video, but shouldn't make the cpu fan not turn.
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by lionstorm on 2003/7/14 8:37:14
I received my board 1 month but lack a strong psu so now I got it but at power, the cpu fan does not spin and there is no video output from my AGP radeon 7500. But the green led on the moterboard is working. How do I continue ?
Lio
For the fan cooler, try to check the right polarity of the connector:
http://www.soft3.net/pages/amigaone-guide-1.php
Ciao
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Check the voltage switch on the back of the psu ... most have one near the main power switchon the psu..
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I will only use Antec or Enermax power supplies as too many cheapos out there that don't cut the mustard as far as voltage variations go... Get a 300 watt or better !!! 8-)
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First thing I'd check is that your RAM stick is in the correct slot. Make sure it's in the first slot, and not the second. Next, make sure that it's seated all the way. Next, check the connection for your CPU and the CPU fan. If the fan is not spinning, touch the heatsink while you turn it on to see if it warms up (should heat up rather quickly). If it doesn't heat up, then either your RAM is bad (or incompatible), your cpu is bad, or there is a problem with the power connection from your power supply to your motherboard. I haven't seen the AmigaOne yet, but check for a 4-pin mobo connector (common feature on p4 motherboards).
If the light is on for your motherboard, and if you turn on the power supply, and you can hear it running, then most likely it is not the power supply. Try plugging your computer into the power supply, turn on the power supply, and move around the connector to see if you can get anything to power up.
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Did you connect the power button properly? even without ram, hds, fans and such should spin.
There is usually a light on mobos that will be lit even without pressing the power button, enough to have the psu hooked up.
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lionstorm wrote:
@ agafaster : yes I checked jumpers and etc several times. Do I expect a video output without the ram plugged ?
Lio
No video output but fans should spin up and will make a few beeps if pc speaker is hooked up.
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no beep at power on but could be I did not connect right the speaker. Ram should be ok since it is registered kingston. The fan cooler on the graphic card (ATI radeon 7500) is spinning but no the cpu fan cooler. I don t now how to take it out otherwise I would have done it and checked it by connecting it to a pc motherboard. Also plugged HD and DVD (only power, not the ide cable) but this does not help. Why this expensive peace of hardware does not work ?? I am very frustrated.
Lio
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Hey look Lando, more evidence of Articia-S bugs!!!!!
:-P
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It's a developer's board, so you should have some developer's tools. Like a multimeter. Check the power rails on the ATX connector. With the power connected to the PSU but turned "off", you should have +5 V on the "+5 V SB" pin and on the "PWR ON" pin. When you connect the "PWR ON" pin to ground with your front panel switch, the power supply should start up and provide all the other voltages (Main +5V, +/- 12V, 3.3V). The fan should have +12V on its red wire and 0V on the black, as described in the startup guide.
tony
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It's a developer's board
Really ? I thought I ordered a consumer/normal one only for user not developer. The only special thing is this earlybird, related to amigaOS4.
No multimeter here, I guess I have to ^find one.
Lio
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Hi Lionstorm,
As mentioned by Herewegoagian, did you ensure that the AGP card is inserted all the way down. Most need a little extra force to be inserted properly.
Does the hard drive spin up when the IDE cable is disconnected from the system board?
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Yes the AGP gfx card is in, and the fan cooler on it is spinning !
IDE HD is spinning as well at power on.
Lio
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@vortexau :
is the ram not auto detected ? if not where do I tell the A1 how much memory I plugged (did not find something in the manual)?
Lio
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The memory is auto-detected.
What type of video card do you have?
tony
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@tonyw : video card is ATI radeon7500LE.
Lio
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Going over things just one more time and reseating all that can be reseated has turned out to be the solution for more than one person before you :-)
You can never reseat the AGP enough ;-)
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Actually, I would advice going for as small a PSU as possible, because the big ones are not meant to drive as little current as the AmigaOne uses :-(
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Maybe your reset switch stucks. I had the same problems when I built my PC and that was the reason.
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by DaveP on 2003/5/13 9:55:23 in another thread
@all
LOL! I can see the advertising campaign now:
"Pegasos, take valium before assembling. Genesi cannot be held responsible for any electric shocks or cardiac arrests that may result of the frustration from assembling this in kit form"
It can only get better.
@lionstorm:
Wishing you luck with your board. Hope you can use it soon.
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@Warface : thanks. I personnaly think next time I order the whole system (tower+mainboard). I thought I could gain something in assembling parts myself but I am loosing nerves.
Lio
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enshure that the video card is firmly home ? :-)
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by lionstorm on 2003/7/15 9:18:56
no beep at power on but could be I did not connect right the speaker. Ram should be ok since it is registered kingston. The fan cooler on the graphic card (ATI radeon 7500) is spinning but no the cpu fan cooler.
Step by Sptep:
1-as i already tell you, the problem with the speaker is fixable going to:
http://www.soft3.net/pages/amigaone-guide-1.php
2-the fan cooler has polarity; try to invert the two leads
3-the next time, buy a pre assembled AOne :-D
Ciao
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by olegil on 2003/7/15 13:19:11
Actually, I would advice going for as small a PSU as possible, because the big ones are not meant to drive as little current as the AmigaOne uses
Could be!
Try to connect a couple of old HD (only the power lines).
Ciao
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Wasn't there problems with the powercolor 7500LE not being supported? I seem to recall someone having problems with it before(can't remember where I saw it) ...
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Actually, I would advice going for as small a PSU as possible, because the big ones are not meant to drive as little current as the AmigaOne uses
Thats crap a machine will only use upto the power it needs mine works fine with a 440watt qtec power supply. :-)
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Thats crap a machine will only use upto the power it needs mine works fine with a 440watt qtec power supply.
Not all PowerSupply, works in the same way!
Some requires, minimum charge, to works correctly.
Ciao
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Make sure the Reset Switch is connected - IIRC the switch is usually active low, i.e. when there's no connection between the pins, that's a reset signal. No switch = No connection = permanent reset trigger.
At least, that's how I remember it....
For what it's worth my A1XE needs to be turned on twice - the first time there's no graphic display or anything (but the CPU fan goes), then I turn it off then on again and it works. It's a bug in the Radeon cards, they need a PCI Reset - happens on a lot of PCs too.
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@ Framiga :
Thanks I will try as soon I get home for the speaker. As for the fan, I tried several times to invert, revert etc this bloody cable, even to put it on the second fan connector but no , it does not work.
Never heard before about this reset bug in Radeon card (mine is AGP)
Lio
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Make sure the Reset Switch is connected - IIRC the switch is usually active low, i.e. when there's no connection between the pins, that's a reset signal. No switch = No connection = permanent reset trigger.
At least, that's how I remember it....
You remember wrong.
For what it's worth my A1XE needs to be turned on twice - the first time there's no graphic display or anything (but the CPU fan goes), then I turn it off then on again and it works. It's a bug in the Radeon cards, they need a PCI Reset - happens on a lot of PCs too.
Lacking PCI reset is a bug of the motherboard.
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by lionstorm on 2003/7/15 16:44:55
@ Framiga :
Thanks I will try as soon I get home for the speaker. As for the fan, I tried several times to invert, revert etc this bloody cable, even to put it on the second fan connector but no , it does not work.
At this point, could be better, if you test the fan out of AOne mobo.
If the fan is in short, the power supply protection circuit, start.
Test the fan on another PSU or any +12 volts source. The same for the GFX board (on a PC)
Ciao
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Framiga wrote:
by lionstorm on 2003/7/15 16:44:55
@ Framiga :
Thanks I will try as soon I get home for the speaker. As for the fan, I tried several times to invert, revert etc this bloody cable, even to put it on the second fan connector but no , it does not work.
At this point, could be better, if you test the fan out of AOne mobo.
At this point, I'm going to play devil's advocate -- contact Eyetech. You've been running the board without cooling, you apparently had a power supply flake out on you -- it may not be dead, but it seems you aren't having luck bringing it to life.
Perhaps they can put you in touch with a dealer (with the hardware on hand, like a spare processor card and fan) to debug the problem, or arrange for a board swap at the cost of some shipping.
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lionstorm wrote:
@ Framiga :
Thanks I will try as soon I get home for the speaker. As for the fan, I tried several times to invert, revert etc this bloody cable, even to put it on the second fan connector but no , it does not work.
Never heard before about this reset bug in Radeon card (mine is AGP)
Lio
Maybe the fan is dead? Also maybe try booting it without the fan hooked up, maybe it has some shortcut or something.
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@ Lionstorm
Was Amiga.org your first choice for technical support?
I know that there are many experts here but the first thing I would have done is contacted the supplier or eyetech for technical support.
The hardware is under warranty and if it has a fault or if you need help setting it up why not try the official channels first. I am sure they will be willing to help :idea:
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@ GadgetMaster : I beg and please for help everywhere to have most chance to get the reply I am desperately waiting for. On A1SEdev, they are that many messages that mine could easely be sunk and forgotten.
TO ALL : fan is working now, stupid me I plugged the fan cable in all 3 positions instead of 2 and 3 only. But still no video output so I connect a serial cable between my A1 and a PC running Mandrake9, install minicom, set it up at 9600 bauds 8n1 and power on the A1. I get a screen with U-boot etc, board, dram, flash and then this
*** warning, bad CRC use default environment
and thats all. Hooking up HD and DVD, KB and mouse but caps key does not light on.
So still stuck although something is working now.
Thanks for the help but still need more
Lio
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@Lionstorm
Exactly what brand videocard are you using? Is it Gigabyte? Is it Powercolor? Is it Auriga? etc etc...
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Lacking PCI reset is a bug of the motherboard.
The board has a PCI reset, and the firmware triggers it, unless one happens to have a very old revision of the firmware, in which case it can be updated.
I've never heard about such a problem.
The only problem that I am aware of is that the Linux kernel doesn't properly trigger the reset, but that is a software problem, and outside of my area of expertise.
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But still no video output
Radeon 7xxx should work. What exactly happens? Hang during graphics card init, or a "VGA: OK" and still no display.
What revision (date) of the firmware do you have? The recent update fixed a problem with certain brands of 7000's not working.
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@Rogue : no more output after the warning line (no VGA ok), so I guess A1 hangs. Graphic card is ATI radeon 7500LE 64Mb (no ideo whether it is powercolor or something else).
revision :
U-boot 0.1.1 (Apr 3 2003 - 14:44:24), Build: 04/03/03
Lio
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U-boot 0.1.1 (Apr 3 2003 - 14:44:24), Build: 04/03/03
Try the latest build of the firmware from the A1G3dev's file area. It is known to fix some issues with certain brands of Radeon hardware.
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sorry to be dumb but where is the file area ? the only U-boot I could get is from sourceforge.net, which is currently having U-boot 0.4.0 but the problem will be how exactly to transfer and install the file (3MB) on my A1 without any working drive and video output besides minicom.
Lio
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sorry to be dumb but where is the file area ?
Write me a private mail (Hans-JoergF@hyperion-entertainment.com) about this.
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One more question... Have you tried moving around the ram? Some mainboards is a bit picky of which slot the ram is plugged in. And also... You should test the gfx card in a pc or something, to see if it works there.
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lionstorm
ok knowing how most ATX motherboards will not boot or complete a post when there is no fan or any working fan hooked up to the power supply, I would disconnect the power supply from the motherboard, and get an adapter for the cpu fan and connect it directly to the power supply and see if it works then, also if you have a multimeter you can check the voltage output from the motherboard cpu fan connetors, if good then you know you have a bad fan.
if you were to ask me, off the top of my head, I think that the whole problem is with the fan, so I would get a new fan
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remember, if your fan is bad, or not properly connected, your computer will not boot, post or even (some cases) beep.
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oh ok, fan is now working, nevermind my last post
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Hm, dumb thought, maybe it's already implemented (I've not looked at the SourceForge U-Boot tree lately, let alone heard much new about the AmigaOne version) ... Maybe there should be a blind flash feature?
Hold down (Ctrl/Alt/Win) - 1, 2, 3, or 4 during boot, and the loader would ignore everything 'risky,' look for a properly-structured ISO9660 image on the IDE device picked (given that we don't really do floppies yet), and provide some feedback (speaker tones, keyboard LED flashes) as to whether it's flashed itself properly or not?
Be a bit troublesome for SCSI, but 1. 90% of everyone's using ATA right now, and 2. if it were worth doing for SCSI, you could, perhaps, have a (Ctrl/Alt/Win)-S to try selecting the first SCSI controller, followed by acknowledging/error response, and the user could then tap the ID of their SCSI optical to attempt the flash.
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Framiga wrote:
Not all PowerSupply, works in the same way!
Some requires, minimum charge, to works correctly.
Switching power supplies require a minimum load to operate correctly. Without the minimum load, voltage regulation may be poor or, worse, the PSU could be damaged. Linear power supplies don't generally have such a limitation but are far less efficient.
At any rate, a 440W or even 600W (but, what A1 needs something that beefy?), PSU won't be damaged by an A1. If you're using a faster harddrive, it alone presents enough load to satisfy the PSU unless you have an exceedingly cheap supply. You definately get what you pay for with power supplies, regardless of application.
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One more question... Have you tried moving around the ram? Some mainboards is a bit picky of which slot the ram is plugged in.
Not an issue. RAM should work in either slot. What might cause problems is if the module is not properly seated, some of them have a hard time sliding completely into the socket.
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Rogue wrote:
One more question... Have you tried moving around the ram? Some mainboards is a bit picky of which slot the ram is plugged in.
Not an issue. RAM should work in either slot. What might cause problems is if the module is not properly seated, some of them have a hard time sliding completely into the socket.
Actually i have encountered some motherboards being picky about this.. One i had was even picky about what order the sdram was in. :O Not very usual but some few actually have a prob with this, and neither anything to loose from trying ;-)
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Tomas wrote:
Actually i have encountered some motherboards being picky about this.. One i had was even picky about what order the sdram was in. :O Not very usual but some few actually have a prob with this, and neither anything to loose from trying ;-)
At least one obvious thing that could cause such would be the "DIMM clock select" feature you might've noticed in some BIOSes. I know not enough about SDRAM in general (ask me how much fun BX-era boards have caused me lately), but the clock-select feature apparently relates to how the board provides clock to the DIMMs - enabled, it decides if a module is present, only provides clock if it is (how it detects, how it switches, and how many traces all this uses, I've no idea); apparently this saves a small bit of power, maybe preserves signal integrity, and helps them pass FCC and other RFI certifications (I suppose it's worse to have the traces acting as an antenna, without a DIMM to sink the signal).
In any case, OEM BIOSes often lock down such settings, such that you might not be aware the design features are even there/decisions have been made... If that feature isn't perfect in some designs, I could imagine it favoring the use of sockets 'in order.' Then you have odd designs like my old EPoX 8KTA3, which provided 'extra' slots wired single-sidedly?/single-bankedly?/with fewer lines, somehow, giving users a chance to recycle their piles of older, smaller modules while still taking advantage of the then-new 256 and 512MB DIMMs.
Plenty of design oddities out there; sometimes the manufacterers don't even know what their products support.
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Eyetech should post a warning sticker on that stupid fan I have seen more than a few users and a dealer who took the fan off the proper shipped position and stuck it in the wrong position. The fan in the proper position is offset to the front of the mother board. People see this and assume the fan is on wrong and "correct it". The fan is reverse polarity protected and won't spin backward. I have seen fans become fused when they where left in that position for too long.
WARNING!!!! if you replace the CPU fan or you use the case fan header. Cut the yellow wire that is on some fans. The yellow wire is a rpm sensor. If you hook that to the AmigaOne you will be putting noise on the 3volt bus.
Kinston SDRAM while recommended is no GUARANTEE THAT THE RAM IS GOOD.
Kinston SDRAM even the same model number vary greatly from batch to batch.
Odd behavior and random crashes or errors ARE ALMOST ALWAYS BAD RAM.....
Your problem is the Memory. The Amigaone Needs memory in order to run the X86 emulator so it can boot the Video card.
To the individual having to reset the machine for the graphics card to work. I have seen this before. Guess what! That too was fixed with the substitution of proper memory modules
Not to do a plug for myself But.... That is why we are buying Memory MADE FOR THE AMIGAONE/PEGASOS boards because of the inconsistencies with memory modules you buy you can never be sure if the memory you buy works correctly. These Modules have been made by the Manufacturer to work specifically for the AmigaOne and have a special model number. MHC-(XXXX)-R1XE. they even put together special 2 Gig packages for the AmigaOne.
One more warning for the DIYr's out there. BE SAFE ALWAYS UNPLUG THE POWER SUPPLY FROM THE WALL BEFORE WORKING ON YOUR MACHINE. We need you and your machine in one piece.
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a little update :
fan is working
no video output from ATI radeon 7500LE, tv and DVI, 64Mb
BUT serial output is working using A1 serial connected to a pc running mandrake9, and minicom set at 9600 8N1. If I remove the graphic card, I reach the prompt ( ] ) and the keyboard is working. I was able to set the date and autoboot but can not install debian since the bootargs specified a video output to a graphic card. The moment I plug the graphic card I loose the control in minicom. So how do I install debian ?
Lio
PS: ram is allright, bought it from my dealer where I bought my A1 and graphic card.
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The A1 supports basic VESA modes, right? Have you got an old PCI video card you can throw in there and try?
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@bootdisk : yes I did try an old pci card which I borrowed from work. It was an Ati mach64 but still no luck in having any video output.
Lio
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Actually i have encountered some motherboards being picky about this
Do you mean "motherboards in general" or "AmigaOne boards"? In the latter case, the memory should really either work on both slots, or not at all. If it doesn't, then the board is broken :-)
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Rogue wrote:
Actually i have encountered some motherboards being picky about this
Do you mean "motherboards in general" or "AmigaOne boards"? In the latter case, the memory should really either work on both slots, or not at all. If it doesn't, then the board is broken :-)
Motherboards in general yeah... I have no experience whatsoever with the AmigaONE boards, since i dont have one myself. :-)
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yes I did try an old pci card which I borrowed from work. It was an Ati mach64 but still no luck in having any video output.
This thread is getting a bit big, not sure this was suggested before, but did you try a different monitor and/or cable ?
And to add to this, I had 1 weird experience myslef with a monitor (TFT) that woukd show a 640*480 and a 1024*768 but not a 800*600 screen, so even if the monitor works on another setup, try another as well
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you can try to see if switching the FSB speed to 100 helps
look on your motherboard there are three jumpers in a row in front of the AGP slot.
change JP13 from 12 to 23
Remember to do this with the power plug removed from the wall.
If you do this and you get a plain blinking cursor on the screen.
you got the ram working enought to partialy boot the card. Replace the SDRAM
If you got the full boot sequence and debain installs with no errors then the SDRAM is good It just won't work at 133 FSB you can now either replace it or change you CPU clock multiplier to 8X.
Sorry to be a jerk about this but I Have seen this quite abit. Most of problems People have with the Aone is Memory related maybe your dealer didn't check the entire batch or maybe not at all. Maybe they Just brought modules of a supposedly good type.
Either that or your graphics card is bad.
You can check your Card by pluging it into a PC if the PC comes up to the post screen you know the card is good.
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Ram is allright, I see the initialisation steps until the prompt using serial output and no plugged graphic card. This graphic card not initialising problem should be fixed in the latest firmware (U-Boot 0.4.0) and I am still figuring out how to transfer the file to my Aone (floppy, cd-rw failed, struggling with minicom ATM).
Thanks to everyone so kind and willing to help
Regards
Lio
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Framiga wrote:
Thats crap a machine will only use upto the power it needs mine works fine with a 440watt qtec power supply.
Not all PowerSupply, works in the same way!
Some requires, minimum charge, to works correctly.
Ciao
This is true, sometimes you'll see on PSUs +5V 2-15A or whatever. It's not that common, but it does exist, and PSUs like that won't switch on fully as a safety feature if the required load isn't present.
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@lionstorm
at this point, test the GFX card on a PC.
Then, you will be sure that the AGP controller of the mobo is broken.IMHO
Ciao
PS- sorry but . . .have you contacted the seller where you have purchased the A1 mobo?
Eyetech! where are you? :-D
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@lionstorm
Out of curiosity, is your PSU a 'specially designed for Pentium 4"?
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amigamad wrote:
Thats crap a machine will only use upto the power it needs mine works fine with a 440watt qtec power supply. :-)
Well, that is true...they only draw the power they need from the PSU..
But it isn`t crap about the small PSU idea..
Switched mode PSU`s need a minimum current drawn through them in order to give a stable regulated voltage. The motherboard sees a wobbly supply and waits until it reaches a decent level.
If you use an ACME cheapo special PSU(TM), you`ll often find they need a higher minimum load to fireup than the well known quality brands.
Add to this the fact that high power PSUs have a higher minimum load than low power ones, ( I`ve got a 145W micro ATX PSU here that only needs the load of a 2W fan to stabilse!) and it should make sense...