Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: seer on July 12, 2003, 11:15:00 PM
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From here (http://anon.free.anonymizer.com/http://www.scala.com/discussions/infochannel-and-amiga-1817.html);
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I hardly think that you can call Amiga dead, when there is still a lot of people around making new software and hardware.
Just look at the AmigaOS 4 and AmigaOne and all the websites dedicated to Amiga computers. A computer platform
ain't dead until nothing/nobody is left and you can hardly say that about Amiga. Why do you think people still use Amiga, because it's a great computer, I really don't think anyone whould still use it, if it were a #### computer...
Also one of the reasons why we use Amiga, is that we love the computer and the OS and because we don't want to be like a pack of sheeps, going where everybody else is going.
The people that left a long time ago, were probably just around for the games or the money that could be made.
The people that are still around, are the true Amigans, that are willing to spend their last buck, just to support the platform, since they don't like Windows that bloody much!
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Well, that's one of the reason most of you are still here.. (And if I had the cash to spare, I would have a real Amy instead of WinUAE)
(And this is a bit of a interesting quote;
The Amiga is over. What is currently calling it self and Amiga is nothing but a releatively standard PowerPC Reference Platform and some software written by some old fans of the Amiga and being marketed by five former Amiga Dealers/Commodore Sales-Marketing guys. There is nothing there that would justify the name--excepting that they are the holders of the trademarks.)
:-o
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I like this quote best
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Posted: Tuesday, 02/04/2003 -- by John Schilling. Subject: Sorry, no--we will not be releasing the source code
O.K., Let's go with the basics:
The core of the Software Development team at Scala, past and present, WROTE the Amiga OS at Commodore.
Scala's V.P. of Corporate Sales DESIGNED the Amiga 500. [the A3000 Designer was also an Engineer at Scala--but he has left for other HW-releated design tasks]
Scala's CEO was once the V.P. of Engineering at Commodore.
I was a manufacturing engineer at Commodore--I have personally had phyical contact with every single A4000T Commodore ever built! [and worked as a Consultant to Escom for their A1200/A4000T production run...]
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Message to BBRV. Get on the charm offensive with the guys at SCALA!! :-D
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The Amiga is over. What is currently calling it self and Amiga is nothing but a releatively standard PowerPC Reference Platform and some software written by some old fans of the Amiga and being marketed by five former Amiga Dealers/Commodore Sales-Marketing guys. There is nothing there that would justify the name--excepting that they are the holders of the trademarks.
I thought this quote summed the situation up rather well.
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meerschaum wrote:
The Amiga is over. What is currently calling it self and Amiga is nothing but a releatively standard PowerPC Reference Platform and some software written by some old fans of the Amiga and being marketed by five former Amiga Dealers/Commodore Sales-Marketing guys. There is nothing there that would justify the name--excepting that they are the holders of the trademarks.
I thought this quote summed the situation up rather well.
Especially when it's not just anyone saying it, but an ex-commodore engineer!
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I thought this quote summed the situation up rather well.
Well, it would be interesting to hear how they feel about Pegasos and MorphOS.. For most outsiders they might be just an "Amiga Inc" with a different name.. (Edit, afterall, The MorpOS was written by some "old" fans of the Amiga as well, and the Pegasos is just as well a releatively standard PowerPC Reference Platform)
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Is it asking for too much to use reasonable titles for threads?
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Is it asking for too much to use reasonable titles for threads?
Care to explain what wrong with it ? But better start that in your thread and keep this one on topic. :-o :-? :-x :-P
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seer wrote:
Is it asking for too much to use reasonable titles for threads?
Care to explain what wrong with it ? But better start that in your thread and keep this one on topic. :-o :-? :-x :-P
the comment is probably to do with the fact that "the reason that you..." means absolutly nothing and not all people want to look in the thread if it doesnt appear to interest them
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the comment is probably to do with the fact that "the reason that you..." means absolutly nothing and not all people want to look in the thread if it doesnt appear to interest them
This better... Sjees... What some folks can think of to bitch about.. :-P
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This better... Sjees... What some folks can think of to bitch about..
Now, if you could please move this thread to the correct forum? [don't have a heart attack yet, just kidding ;]
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Now, if you could please move this thread to the correct forum? [don't have a heart attack yet, just kidding ;]
To be honest, I did think about to put this in the talk about, but as it is pretty open to "Software Issues and Discussion" in regards to Scala, Amiga OS MorphOS and about people who were in in the Amiga OS developement team I think this forum is just as correct.. If not, Red or Kees will correct me ;-)
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I actually read that on the scala forum... pisses me off how the scala guy replied..
And why ppl still use it for infochannels, is cause it actually still even today run smoother and crashes rarely compared to a PC using same piece of software... An amiga has no problem running scala for years without a reboot.....
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>Also one of the reasons why we use Amiga, is that we love the computer and the OS and because we don't want to be like a pack of sheeps, going where everybody else is going.
For me, the main reason is that I can not hope to understand Windows (as developer). It's changing too quickly, is messy, it comes with an overwhelming collection of interfaces and APIs.
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the Scala guys may piss you off...but they are completely right... they did after all... create Scale... engineer the amiga...and are to thank for all of this...I take their word for it when they say ICD is better then old MM400 etc... because they developed all of it... and their arguments where pretty solid... MM was good on amiga...but its better on the PC...and Win2K/etc are solid as a rock(relatively speaking)... I've seen tons of kiosks crash running scala and amigas...the amiga was not a system built for solidly running things that Scala wanted...
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the amiga was not a system built for solidly running things that Scala wanted...
um... that total bullshit. What amiga was good with, was actually running software like scala, software that needed smooth scrolling and so on. And from my experience, Scala is way more unstable on computers running windows. I have seen loads of windows peeces crash...
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well one thing is for sure , if it hadnt been for windows i would probably have one of thoose right now! (x86) , but i like to use the amiga as it always made me happy and still does.
maybe i have small demands in apps and games, i dont know...but i get excited everytime something gets released.
unlike the period i had pc and worked with it for 3 years, i saw heaps of games and apps, and basically too much crap to even understand why i bothered to install em anyway.
So in the end i just trashed the pc (2 year ago) and i havent looked back..
as a small note, i never replaced the pc with amiga, i just used both + at work ...(i was an iT ADMIN) but i miss a few things from the pc....i surely do...but nothing so much that i will get a pc again..
just to mention a few things... LW 7.x , adobe premiere , unreal tournament ( i dont like ut2003) and ignition... thats all basically..
on my amiga i have fun all day , and atm the best game there is must be TALES OF TAMAR and the best app...well i use hollywood alot and lightwave 5.x + devpac3 :)
cheers
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I take their word for it when they say ICD is better then old MM400 etc... because they developed all of it...
Heh! You ain't kiddin' it's better!!! As cool as the old MM400 was... Man... It's not even close to the new stuff. I'm on a committee that is reviewing several systems for delivering information on video to my employer's manufacturing facilities, and I just sat in a demonstration done by a Scala reseller from Chicago. I was simply blown away. It's not that the Scala layout and display engine itself has gotten much more advanced (it was already great) but the ability to track, manage, and send different content and videos to multiple sites in a logical way... Very well thought out. You can easily have one person spend only an hour or two a day to run many custom tailored video channels in various offsite locations. Plus you can delegate authority to certain others who can post content only to their own channels, etc. Very well thought out, and definitly requires much more horsepower than the current Amigas. Plus, with x86, the Scala resellers can offer clients the opportunity of a turn-key solution, or an installation on existing hardware to be supported by the company's IT department.
This brings me back around closer to the topic of the post. The whole world is not like that of the small company. It'd take me months to try to push through the paperwork to get permission to put an Amiga on the company intranet. There really are no Amigas left in the companies Scala is selling to. To them, it basically IS a dead computer.
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Time to get real. It's about business. Basing your product on a platform that you can't get hardware for because the parent company died kind of makes it wise to look elsewhere. Then once you've gotten there and survived awhile, and even prospered, why would you want to move back to the squallor of a ghetto? Especially if it was to be associated with a Name that spells failure and bad dreams in the past, and seems to be doing so again.
Scala invested a lot of time and money in their own OS-subservices and API stuff to support efficient and solid use on PC hardware. There's got to be a *real* good business case for them to want to risk again. If MorphOS or AOS4 seem to be going somewhere at some point Scala can re-evaluate. In the meantime, Hollywood and Mediapoint can mature without fear of getting sqwarshed.
See the same thread on ANN (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1057966348&category=forum&24)
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um... that total bullshit.
no memory protection no built in TCP/IP, no ability to scale.
What amiga was good with, was actually running software like scala, software that needed smooth scrolling and so on.
yes in its day for its time it was good...but its complete garbage compared to a modern WinTel running ICD3
And from my experience, Scala is way more unstable on computers running windows.
I dont know what setups you've tried to run Scala on... but alots changed since Windows 3.1 ... might be time for an upgrade
I have seen loads of windows peeces crash...
hasnt everyone? seen, every computer system crash? aside from Unix all OS's are pretty much buggy crap...its just a question of how buggy and how big a piece of crap.... Win2K/XP are relatively stable... these days the OS is mattering less and less... Windows 2003 advanced server is pretty damn solid...for a media server for use with Scala?
a 2+ghz chip, Windows 2003AS and any modern video chip... you'll be doing more then the amiga was ever capable of doing...in terms of the Scalaverse...
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Heh! You ain't kiddin' it's better!!! As cool as the old MM400 was... Man... It's not even close to the new stuff. I'm on a committee that is reviewing several systems for delivering information on video to my employer's manufacturing facilities, and I just sat in a demonstration done by a Scala reseller from Chicago. I was simply blown away. It's not that the Scala layout and display engine itself has gotten much more advanced (it was already great) but the ability to track, manage, and send different content and videos to multiple sites in a logical way... Very well thought out. You can easily have one person spend only an hour or two a day to run many custom tailored video channels in various offsite locations. Plus you can delegate authority to certain others who can post content only to their own channels, etc. Very well thought out, and definitly requires much more horsepower than the current Amigas. Plus, with x86, the Scala resellers can offer clients the opportunity of a turn-key solution, or an installation on existing hardware to be supported by the company's IT department.
yep... and not to mention the format support,... you outlined the flexability... the flexability is really what makes modern scala rock... you can manage an entire intranet via one workstation as you said...its pretty incredible...
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seer wrote:
(And this is a bit of a interesting quote;
The Amiga is over. What is currently calling it self and Amiga is nothing but a releatively standard PowerPC Reference Platform and some software written by some old fans of the Amiga and being marketed by five former Amiga Dealers/Commodore Sales-Marketing guys. There is nothing there that would justify the name--excepting that they are the holders of the trademarks.)
:-o
Seems like he's grasping at straws to get rid of the guy pestering him imo. The gulf between Windows 2000/XP and DOS/Windows 3.1 is surely far greater than what will be between AmigaOS 4 and 3.x, and PCs are far more of a standard x86 platform, but that doesn't stop them developing for Windows 2000, and ppl would probably look at him strangely if he started saying "Windows is over".
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Meerschaum: I've seen tons of kiosks crash running scala and amigas...the amiga was not a system built for solidly running things that Scala wanted...
OK, to get somewhat off topic:
I use a lot of kiosk machines at work, based on all sorts of hardware and software, including WinNT, MacOS, Solaris, and Win2K. The Win2K machine is the only one that NEVER crashes. The machines I use at work suck raw sewage. But, Win2K definately sucks the least.
The Solaris machine isn't too bad as far as crashing is concerned, but it is so damn slow! Win2K is the only system that multitasks properly, too. The Sun system chokes and screws up prints if you try to multitask, much like old unbuffered CD Burners. And since it's a kiosk, customers always try to start a new order before the old one is printed, and we get lots of waste prints. I never thought I'd drool over a Celeron 500 with an ATA33 hard drive -- until I got to work on that Sun workstation. :-P
I remeber seeing an Amiga 500 kiosk in a paint store. it was used to show what houses looked like with different color schemes. It didn't crash when I used it, though. ;-)
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Thinking about it a bit more, I suspect what he really means (at least, it's the only way that seems to make sense to me) is that the features which made the Amiga the ideal platform for Scala (ie, the chipset being more suitable than standard PC graphics cards) isn't something that applies to the AmigaOne/Pegasos (or any Amiga now, perhaps).
Which would be fair enough. But I don't think it makes sense to take this quote out of the context of the discussion about Scala, and consider it as a view on the Amiga's future in general (which is more than just Scala).
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Waccoom you summed up what I've been meaning to say nicely... Amiga was "GREAT" in its time... but compared to a modern WinTel Kiosk? ...its just not all there..