Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: AmigaMance on October 31, 2007, 08:43:21 AM
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Have a look at these sites:
http://www.platon42.de
http://www.geit.de
http://amigazeux.net
http://binaryriot.org
http://www.chimachine1000.de/Pegasos/Pegasos.htm
http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/sw/
http://www.korni.ovh.org/
I don't know if all of them basically left the Amiga/MorphOS platform because of they were being bashed/trolled by some.. ehm.. entities, but this seems to be the case with platon42. I also remember that piru complained that someone was keep trolling him a few months ago. This is a REAL shame!! We can NOT afford that! -1 developer = Another nail to the coffin of Amiga! :-(
Allow me to paste what i wrote on another forum:
This must become the rule #1 in every Amiga forum:
"NEVER bash an Amiga developer, even if you are right. With only a handful of them left, we simply don't have this luxury"
Violators should be banned for at least 1-2 weeks, imho. If we keep this way, we will become a community with users only and no devs. This means death..
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This must become the rule #1 in every Amiga forum:
"NEVER bash an Amiga developer, even if you are right. With only a handful of them left, we simply don't have this luxury"
Violators should be banned for at least 1-2 weeks, imho. If we keep this way, we will become a community with users only and no devs. This means death..
[/quote]
... signed :cry:
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From reading a few posts in different places, it seems platon42 had an argument with a someone who is a moderator on a discussion site, and found his replies being censored. Out of disgust he took down his site, and the others did so out of solidarity.
The dispute was over TLSFMem. I would have thought that the whole Elbox episode would have caused him to give up, not a small incident like this. Then again, this could well be the straw that broke the camels' back.
I don't think these guys have left for good. They are big fish in a small pond. If they wanted to switch to Windows they could have done that long ago. That's just my opinion.
________
Vapir One (http://www.vaporshop.com/one-vaporizer.html)
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NEVER bash an Amiga developer, even if you are right
That will never happen with all the trolls walking freely around amiga forums sorry to say but it is true. Only the amiga user argue about the smallest thing As well as bash any good news and ideas .
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Signed also...
Solidarity with the amiga programmers!
The problem was: Only bashing in the AN comment section, no thank you, no help, no real feedback and some guys that cannot stop, that do not know when they have to stop... The community should show what they think about trolls, about people that just making trouble...
...and every user should know that FEEDBACK for programmers is one of the important things ever!!!!
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AmigaMance wrote:
This must become the rule #1 in every Amiga forum:
"NEVER bash an Amiga developer, even if you are right.
So if I take issue with something a developer says, I'm not allowed to say anything for fear of them running and taking their web site down? I don't think so. I don't see why we should be held to ransom in that way. If I have a problem with what somebody says or does, I will comment on it. I don't care who they are, or what they threaten to do about it.
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moto
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I am inclined to think that it is not cool to 'bash' anyone. Particularly people who actively contribute to a hobby that I enjoy.
I also think that people who are willing to develop software , and hardware should be recognized in a positive manor.
Ahh well, maybe 'Bye', is not the last we will hear from the people who have left. Perhaps it is just, 'Bye for now...'
Thanks to everybody who shares the work they do, some people appreciate it.
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Yes, I agree. Developers should have the exclusive right to insult people and to generally behave like spoilt brats. That truly is the professional way to handle things.
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@motorollin
I proposed to never BASH them, not to avoid saying your opinion..
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Define "bashing". You said "even if you are right". So if you are serious about this "rule", then you really need to be more specific about what is and is not an acceptable to air your view.
However, I really object to treating developers differently to anybody else. Why is it ok to "bash" mere users but developers have a special rule to protect them? It is not acceptable to abuse *anybody*, and that is why we have moderators. We don't need a special rule about that just for developers.
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moto
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Having a hissy fit and pulling down a page over some crap on a web forum is about as emo as it gets. I sure hope this developer isn't a cutter, blood on the keyboard probably leads to stuck keys.
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So if I take issue with something a developer says, I'm not allowed to say anything for fear of them running and taking their web site down? I don't think so.
And you are right, but... starting a neverending metadiskussion, do not stop complaining and telling the programmer he has no knowledge is not the right way!!!!!
Some constructively criticism is ok, to help improving the software, but just trolling and complaining for fun is not necessary. And that is the problem in the comment section.
Giving some nice feedback if you are using the software can also be very helpfully, not just saying nothing because you think it is naturally to have software for the amiga...
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To be honest, there is a limit to what you can do on sites such as these.
Some people get their kicks from moaning, complaining, criticising etc.
The moderators can only do so much, even if a posting is removed, it may have already been read by it's intended target.
Also, because the devs want feedback, an email address is often provided.
Another easy target for this type of person.
The only way to get rid of them is to spoil their enjoyment by not rising to the bait.
That's something we all need to do including the devs.
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Define "bashing".
http://www.answers.com/topic/bashing-pejorative
However, I really object to treating developers differently to anybody else.
Ok.
Why is it ok to "bash" mere users
It is not ok to bash users. I am one of them.
but developers have a special rule to protect them?
Because the viability of the community relies heavily on them?
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The developers depend on the users as much as the other way around. With no users, the developers don't have anybody to use the software they want to develop. So to elevate the developers above the users and give them special rules to protect them is nonsense.
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moto
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@koaftder
I also believe that he over-reacted, but some people are touchy. What can we do about it? Perhaps try not to frustrate them. :-) Remember that most of them offer their programs for free, they don't work for us.
And, as you can see, it's not just one website down. It's a whole bunch of them. This doesn't look good...
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Hi,
Being rather new to the whole Amiga scene, the one thing that has stood out with intense clarity is that most Amiga users (trolls excluded) seem to be incredibly passionate people (I guess you have to be :-D ). This goes for developers and users.
I was following a thread on a potentially new scan doubler last night, and to say that the discussion was heated would be a huge understatement. As far as I could see the reason intensity was an initial lack of understanding, which ballooned into a near fight. Luckily some maturity was shown and both sides seemed to back down amicably after a bit.
What I am trying to say here, albeit in a long winded manner, is that you need to take a deep breath (and possibly a walk around the block) before replying to a heated topic. Also, if you happen to be an expert in a particular field, try not to make your replies too condescending... every body says stupid things at some point, and everyone has to learn somehow.
Developers need to get a little thicker skinned and users need to do a little more reading before irritating others.
Platon42 seems to be a highly regarded and skilled dev. who I am sure after a bit of a cool-down will resume his activities. Putting a personal insult into a readme is a little off colour in my book and the resulting histrionics if not so serious would be highly amusing.
So everybody, breathe deep, take a chill, and lets get back to enjoying this incredibly frustrating and rewarding system!
-(e)
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It's always great fun to see the 'censorship' card being played in the discussions leading up to the climax. It's such a meaningless concept on Internet forums that it is painful to see people believing with heart and soul that freedom of speech is their unalienable right, and then seeing their emotions take control over what must be, for lack of a better word, their brain. There's but one or two voices of reason in that bloody mess, yet noone is listening to them. What a pity.
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Yeah what a pity. I am a nazi ass, i can't help it. :-(
I see that you participate in off-topic threads lately... There is nothing wrong with this, but when was the last time that you actually used an Amiga or a peg?
Do you even care that all these sites went down and their owners are on transit? Do you know what programs they were developing?
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@Motorollin:
So if I take issue with something a developer says, I'm not allowed to say anything for fear of them running and taking their web site down? I don't think so. I don't see why we should be held to ransom in that way. If I have a problem with what somebody says or does, I will comment on it. I don't care who they are, or what they threaten to do about it.
amen, brother.
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TheMagicM wrote:
@Motorollin:
So if I take issue with something a developer says, I'm not allowed to say anything for fear of them running and taking their web site down? I don't think so. I don't see why we should be held to ransom in that way. If I have a problem with what somebody says or does, I will comment on it. I don't care who they are, or what they threaten to do about it.
amen, brother.
And i supposly disagree with what motorollin said?? Let me paste the url for the definition of "bashing" for one more time... Oh wait, it's pointless. If you don't want to understand you will not.
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AmigaMance wrote:
Yeah what a pity. I am a nazi ass, i can't help it. :-(
I see that you participate in off-topic threads lately... There is nothing wrong with this, but when was the last time that you actually used an Amiga or a peg?
Do you even care that all these sites went down and their owners are on transit? Do you know what programs they were developing?
Was that directed at me? I can't really see what it is in response to.
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moto
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@motorollin
Was that directed at me?
What makes you think so?
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Nothing. It's just unclear from your response who you are talking to - there are a lot of people posting in this thread.
[EDIT]
Never mind. Just re-read Cymric's reply and seen the "what a pity..." link.
[/EDIT]
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moto
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amiga community = slowly dwindling lunatic asylum
I can't really add anything else to that.
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..this is nothing new.
Anyone remember crackers ripping Holger Kruse (Miami author) until he just stopped dealing with us?
I mean, there's been some lousy software published in the Amiga community but often the developers who get the most grief are the ones that write the coolest or most necessary stuff. The complainers don't seem to care about what the developers who write the awful stuff do.
Sadly, when a community devolves into such a tiny population from what was once quite large, most of who stays seem to be those with few skills, lots of attitude and feelings of entitlement to behave in the worst ways.
(What we hear from AI doesn't help...OS4 is here, hardware is coming...and coming and coming. ...but it won't do much different then other Amigas or other platforms for that matter. Amiga used to = innovative and graceful...it would be nice if a new Amiga did something nothing else did.)
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AmigaMance wrote:
I see that you participate in off-topic threads lately... There is nothing wrong with this, but when was the last time that you actually used an Amiga or a peg?
'Lately'? My dear fellow, I've been contributing off-topically since 2003 or thereabouts. I continue to keep tabs on the small world of Amigas because of fond adolescent memories, and the fact that many basic concepts of multitasking can be found in these machines, which help me out elsewhere.
As for my using Amigas: does AROS count? Then 2004, I think. If not, then 2000 or thereabouts, when I sold my 4000 because of immense frustration in trying to get some programming done. SAS/C was no longer supported (although I had an official licensed copy); gcc was dog slow; and the machine crashed faster than a politician can shift positions. The endless stream of 'Disk Not Validated' errors as a consequence just made me throw in the towel. I was sorely tempted to get a Minimig when Dennis published his schematics (I like retro computing), but for now I lack room in my house and time to turn it inside out properly. In addition, I think I'd like to see a Minimig with more CPU horsepower appear first; AGA is not worth it, IMO.
Now that I've answered your question, here's one of mine: why did you want to know all this? Do I have to be a regular Amiga user in order to contribute here? For I don't think I like the tone of the subsequent questions, although, as you can see, I will answer them fully and completely.
Do you even care that all these sites went down and their owners are on transit? Do you know what programs they were developing?
I know what platon42 was developing: an O(1) (consant time) memory allocator is sufficiently arcane to pique my interest. I even looked up the original articles and some MC680x0 assembly documentation (the BFFFO mnemonic was key here) to see how it worked. I've been meaning to dive into memory management for years now, and this was a nice opportunity to add a few more bookmarks to my growing list. The rest I have no idea about, save that I can tell that Piru's site is amongst those who went the way of the dodo. His knowledge of system internals is vast, so yes, I'm sure his contributions will be missed.
But do I actually care as in the way displayed by the discussions elsewhere? No, absolutely not. And I wouldn't have even if I still had an Amiga or a derivative. This is a small corner of the IT hobby, and I recognise it as such. People are not obliged to contribute anything, and are similarly not entitled to anything, save those who produce code for cash, of course. I consider some of the actions displayed elsewhere rather juvenile, but it's not my problem, and I refuse to make it mine, too. 'But we lose valuable developers!', I hear you retort---well, learn how to program yourself, or switch to a platform where you can rely on more stable support if that is important to you. I tried the first, and ended up chosing the second. 'You'll not be able to look up useful hints any longer!'---perhaps. But I'm not worried that I won't find answers elsewhere.
In this tiny community, you can't have your cake and eat it too, I'm afraid... Suppose for example that platon42 decided that he was going to spend more time with his children (assuming for the sake of the discussion that he has any) instead of his computer, and Piru decided to go camping and pony trekking for real? They'd still leave gaping wounds in the Amiga development community as a consequence. The only difference is that the way they left would have been more agreeable. And, far more importantly, people probably still would be able to use their neat little programs until the next developer surfaced to breathe a little more life into this platform.
In any case, my 'pity' is for the way the discussions---what is left of them, to be precise---were / are being conducted.
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OH cry me a damn river!!
Come on people grow up and take some criticisms if it is not true then ignore it..
And if it is true change it..if not
don't worry about it!
It's called being thick skinned..
GGGGGRRRRRRrrrrrrrr
:crazy:
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IOWASURFER wrote:
OH cry me a damn river!!
Come on people grow up and take some criticisms if it is not true then ignore it..
And if it is true change it..if not
don't worry about it!
It's called being thick skinned..
GGGGGRRRRRRrrrrrrrr
:crazy:
BTW, how is the job as a self-esteem coach going? :-D
________
TOYOTA V TRANSMISSION (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_V_transmission)
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Giggles... I do love the pie fight in Blazing Saddles.
Really, honestly guys it is very difficult to say anything these days seriously about the Amiga without getting a pie in the face....
Go on.... Throw it... You know you want to.
scuzz :lol: