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Amiga.org specific forums => Amiga.org Discussion and Site Feedback => Topic started by: Zac67 on October 28, 2007, 06:59:12 PM

Title: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Zac67 on October 28, 2007, 06:59:12 PM
A minor bug for us European users: in Europe DST
- starts last Sunday in March
- ends last Sunday in October (today)
at 1:00 UTC.

I had to set my time zone to GMT to get the post times correct.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: RW222 on October 28, 2007, 07:04:27 PM
North America is using 2nd Sunday in March, first Sunday in November, changed last year. It's meant to conserve energy or something.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: motorollin on October 28, 2007, 07:07:31 PM
I'm set to GMT but the times are showing an hour ahead :-?

--
moto
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: hardlink on October 28, 2007, 07:22:39 PM
Quote

RW222 wrote:
North America is using 2nd Sunday in March, first Sunday in November, changed last year. It's meant to conserve energy or something.


In the U.S., it's meant to bolster incumbent stupid politicians and their stupid constituents into believing the U.S. Congress is actually doing something useful. This bull*** probably wastes more energy on the whole; see the informative (believe it or not) discussion on Slashdot when it was passed last year.

I thought it was just another silly U.S. idiocy, I'm surprised other countries are doing this too.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Zac67 on October 28, 2007, 07:51:54 PM
@moto
That's because a.org believes you're still in DST. The problem will go away next Sunday, but I think it should at least documented.

DST is a complete stupidity, doubly so when the rules change... (which fortunately hasn't happened in Germany for 10 years - hey, don't get any stupid ideas now! :crazy: )
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: RW222 on October 28, 2007, 07:55:24 PM
I think there's talk of going to double DST for most of the summer.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Zac67 on October 28, 2007, 08:24:23 PM
Oh well, here we go...  :idea:  :-o
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: hamtronix on October 28, 2007, 09:05:29 PM
Quote

hardlink wrote:
Quote

RW222 wrote:
North America is using 2nd Sunday in March, first Sunday in November, changed last year. It's meant to conserve energy or something.


In the U.S., it's meant to bolster incumbent stupid politicians and their stupid constituents into believing the U.S. Congress is actually doing something useful. This bull*** probably wastes more energy on the whole; see the informative (believe it or not) discussion on Slashdot when it was passed last year.

I thought it was just another silly U.S. idiocy, I'm surprised other countries are doing this too.



You are 100% correct in that statement friend.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: LoadWB on October 28, 2007, 09:52:33 PM
The new DST rules also provide an opportunity for operating system vendors, like Microsoft and Sun, to require exorbitant amounts of money to provide a patch for older operating systems.

I don't know about Microsoft, because as well as a patch for purchase they also provided registry entries for Windows 2000.  Sun, however, wanted an existing service contract or the purchase of one for $10k per machine to provide a patch for anything older than Solaris 8.

It so happens that I have a box running Solaris 7 providing secondary MX and NS.  When the woman at Sun quoted me $10k per server, I told her that my machine is a 40MHz SparcStation IPX, and if I had $10k laying around I would have bought a Netra or something.

Fortunately, the base of most Unix DST rules is freeware, and it was a simple matter of compiling and testing.  Wham!  Solaris 7 now StupidUSA-DST compliant.

[EDIT: A Netra or more Amiga kit!!  :crazy: ]
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Zac67 on November 04, 2007, 03:07:50 PM
Oh yes, folks - those of you Europeans having set up a fake time zone, don't forget to reset it now that the US have joined us in winter time.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Floid on November 04, 2007, 03:35:09 PM
Quote

LoadWB wrote:

I don't know about Microsoft, because as well as a patch for purchase they also provided registry entries for Windows 2000.  Sun, however, wanted an existing service contract or the purchase of one for $10k per machine to provide a patch for anything older than Solaris 8.

[...]

Fortunately, the base of most Unix DST rules is freeware, and it was a simple matter of compiling and testing.  Wham!  Solaris 7 now StupidUSA-DST compliant.


That's sort of the point, isn't it?  If you're too clueless to write your own zonefile, then Sun gets to hose you.  Windows, on the other hand, doesn't exactly document that part of the Registry for normal users, so everyone still running '9x has to go dig up the hack or documentation thereof from some random third party.

The question is why you haven't standardized on UTC for a production machine.  Is it because it's a MX?
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Oliver on November 04, 2007, 04:08:52 PM
Quote

hardlink wrote:
In the U.S., it's meant to bolster incumbent stupid politicians and their stupid constituents into believing the U.S. Congress is actually doing something useful. This bull*** probably wastes more energy on the whole;...


Much agreed. Just means I have to go work an hour (a real hour, that is) earlier. Now, that's just really not my thing, even though I can leave earlier as well. I do know some families with children appreciate the clock phase change for afternoon activities though.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: ZeBeeDee on December 17, 2007, 08:33:01 PM
I just go by the clock on the wall as it automatically gets updated to the correct time by a time signal broadcast from the Ministry of Defence site located in Anthorn, on the west coast of Cumbria, England ... I'm strange like that  :-D
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Methuselas on December 17, 2007, 09:15:39 PM
Quote

RW222 wrote:
 This bull*** probably wastes more energy on the whole; see the informative (believe it or not) discussion on Slashdot when it was passed last year.

I thought it was just another silly U.S. idiocy, I'm surprised other countries are doing this too.



Actually, it's true. It does conserve energy "on paper", if you do the math.


A whopping ONE percent.....


Go G Dubya!  :roll:
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Zac67 on December 17, 2007, 10:41:50 PM
Quote
Methuselas wrote:

Actually, it's true. It does conserve energy "on paper", if you do the math.

A whopping ONE percent.....


... by using up (at least) THREE percent additional energy and causing millions of EUR/GBP/USD/... to be spent for measures (hardware, software, manpower) to cope with it - grand idea from the start. :-P
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Opus on December 18, 2007, 02:01:48 AM
there are programs for Amiga if that is the machine you are talking about, windoze, and most likely Mac as well, that set the time automatically via the internet.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: AMC258 on December 18, 2007, 02:54:49 AM
I HATE the concept of DST, I especially hate all these new changes.  How is my stupid auto-DST VCR clock supposed to work now??  There are other embedded devices that are similar.

I do appreciate the new change though.  I have an hour of daylight when I get home from work until the end of DST, where otherwise I get home in complete darkness.  I wish they would just keep the DST time year round now.

But, my greatest wish would be that we all work on GMT and just deal with it.  It's so great in China, you never have to change your clock when you travel, and you don't have to worry about what time is it here or there.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: weirdami on December 18, 2007, 03:01:31 AM
Arizona doesn't change its time, so in order to get the time right for TV shows, you have to know what time zone you match during the year.  :roll: Why does Stargate come on at 10PM? That's why.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: AMC258 on December 18, 2007, 03:06:59 AM
Stargate?  What is this stargate??  Oh!  Who cares?  It's on during Futurama. :-D

BTW one of my first Amiga experiences was a guy with a genlock recreating MST3K.  Before he could afford a genlock, he just taped paper cutouts to a TV and pointed a camera at it!  Those weird Minn'sotans!!! :crazy:
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: LoadWB on December 18, 2007, 12:59:48 PM
Quote
Floid wrote:

The question is why you haven't standardized on UTC for a production machine.  Is it because it's a MX?

I have no compelling reason to do so at this time.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Colani1200 on December 18, 2007, 02:17:51 PM
Quote

Opus wrote:
there are programs for Amiga if that is the machine you are talking about, windoze, and most likely Mac as well, that set the time automatically via the internet.


I use facts from Aminet. (http://aminet.net/comm/tcp/facts.readme) It works quite nicely...

BTW (wondering what the reason for DST might be if it obviously doesn't save energy): There are conspiracy theorists who believe DST is just another instrument to suppress people. Quite absurd, but still an interesting thought. ;-)
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: AMC258 on December 19, 2007, 12:10:13 AM
If it's meant to supress us, it sure has the opposite effect!  I am certainly more active during DST, and so is everyone else I know.

Well.... on the other hand, it does supress my Amiga software development!
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: weirdami on December 19, 2007, 01:15:23 AM
@AMC258

Quote
BTW one of my first Amiga experiences was a guy with a genlock recreating MST3K.


:idea:

Well, coincidentally, the other link in my signature is a site dealing with that stuff (MST3K fan-made videos). Just updated yesterday with Christmas themed homepage. :-D If you still know that guy, I'd be interested in seeing what he did and maybe even getting the info up on the site about it, too.
 
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Zac67 on March 15, 2009, 11:23:17 AM
Here we go again - just noticed that all times are 1 hour ahead unless I fake my TZ to GMT instead of MET.

I realize it's not that easy to fix but I'd appreciate an option to deactivate DST for an account. That way we wouldn't have to try to find out when the US start with DST - just imagine what our friends 'down under' have to do to their TZ settings to get it right throughout the year...

If this can't be done either, please consider posting a short 'DST settings changed' each time they do.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: bloodline on March 15, 2009, 11:49:45 AM
Yup, I've had to move my TZ to GMT+1, but since this is a feature of A.org, I'm used to it now :-)
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: LoadWB on March 15, 2009, 01:13:54 PM
Could be an artifact in the older version of the board software a.org runs to remain compatible with Amiga browsers, which would be a seemingly fair trade-off.

I have had customers call me about the time on my servers being wrong, when it is actually the application which calculates the zone's DST information.  Blah.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: dcr8520 on March 15, 2009, 02:40:24 PM
Quote
I thought it was just another silly U.S. idiocy, I'm surprised other countries are doing this too.


:-o

I'm surprised there still exists people who thinks Americans are always the first on doing things. On Europe (or at least Spain, where I live) this is running for more than 30 years already, and yes... it is supposed to be as energy saving...
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Zac67 on March 15, 2009, 10:16:22 PM
Well, the US Americans were the first - this year. ;-)
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: freqmax on May 10, 2009, 11:27:36 PM
DST just seems such a mess. Not enough that it vary with country. It vary when it occurs, and that using non straightforward rules. Now it also seems that those rules change arbitrarily.

Conclusion go GMT! :madashell: :-D

Maybe the authorities should make rule files available. Such that one can schedule automatic download. So in the even the change the time zone data. It's automaticly updated. Even for old OS.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Nlandas on May 11, 2009, 01:32:00 AM
"Does anybody really know what time it is
Does anybody really care
If so I cant imagine why
Weve all got time enough to cry"
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: QuikSanz on May 11, 2009, 02:47:47 AM

Nlandas,

Good old tune. Too bad Terry Kath Killed himself at a party playing Russian Roulette with an unloaded gun.

Chris
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Nlandas on May 11, 2009, 04:31:45 AM
Quote

QuikSanz wrote:

Nlandas,

Good old tune. Too bad Terry Kath Killed himself at a party playing Russian Roulette with an unloaded gun.

Chris


Wow, now that's a downer.  :-?
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Zac67 on May 11, 2009, 07:25:24 AM
Quote
DST just seems such a mess. Not enough that it vary with country. It vary when it occurs, and that using non straightforward rules. Now it also seems that those rules change arbitrarily.


At least for EU it's pretty easy: DST starts last sunday in March and ends last sunday in October - at least it's been that way since 1996.
Title: Re: Daylight saving bug
Post by: Sparky on May 11, 2009, 08:20:43 AM
Quote

QuikSanz wrote:

playing Russian Roulette with an unloaded gun.

Chris


How !?  Did he swallow it ?  Club himself with it ?

I know my humour can be tasteless.

Mark