Amiga.org
Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / Entertainment => Topic started by: motorollin on October 22, 2007, 04:16:50 PM
-
Just finished listening to Radiohead's latest album, In Rainbows. All I can say is, it's stunning. It's not quite what I was hoping for (more of Kid A/Amnesiac) but that is not surprising if you listen to Hail To The Thief. Actually, I'm just listening again and there is a very Kid A feel to some of the tracks (namely Bodysnatchers).
I can't really understand any of the lyrics yet, but that will come with time - I'm used to that after listening to Radiohead for 8 years :lol: According to Thom, "[In Rainbows is] about that anonymous fear thing, sitting in traffic, thinking, 'I'm sure I'm supposed to be doing something else'... it's similar to OK Computer in a way". This is promising - I always liked the feel of OK Computer.
By the way, this is the album which is currently download only, and bizarrely you pay whatever you want for it. I have no idea whether they are trying to make a point, or whether it is some kind of experiment, but it definitely does make you think about how much you really value music. I paid a fiver and thought this was fair considering there is no way to hear the tracks beforehand, and I intend to buy a "hard copy" when the CD is released later. I would have paid more for it had the CD option not been available. Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer to buy my music on CDs.
--
moto
-
I looked at the download website but couldn't decide if I wanted a new Radiohead album or not, for any price! :-)
Don't get me wrong; the earlier stuff they did was awesome (Pablo Honey, The Bends) but the later material had me skipping tracks. (Music going backwards and Thom moaning on about something or other...) Saying that, there ARE some tracks that did rock: Idioteque, Optimistic, Go to sleep, There There.
Anyway, what happens when you finish the download? What exactly do you get? Tracks in MP3 format that are locked to your computer so they can't be copied? I agree it's an unusual approach to release an album with!
-
Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer to buy my music on CDs.
Agreed, I like having something tangible, especially when it's got a whole album package to help add to some aspect to the feel of the music or whatever. I like having a physical library that I or my friends can look over (of music, books, and movies for that matter). I'm less inspired/excited when I'm clicking on track names on my screen.
-
I also really like the idea that somebody put real thought into what tracks are present and track order to create a complete, comprehensive work....that starts to be abandoned to the wayside when it's dumped into my massive collection of MP3's for the most part
-
Anthomatic wrote:
I looked at the download website but couldn't decide if I wanted a new Radiohead album or not, for any price! :-)
Don't get me wrong; the earlier stuff they did was awesome (Pablo Honey, The Bends) but the later material had me skipping tracks. (Music going backwards and Thom moaning on about something or other...)
Post OK Computer Radiohead takes a *lot* of getting used to. Persevere through those tracks that you can't bring yourself to listen to all the way through and you'll grow to love them when you discover their hidden beauty. And by the way, I hated Pablo Honey - so clearly our Radiohead taste is inverse :-)
Anthomatic wrote:
Anyway, what happens when you finish the download? What exactly do you get? Tracks in MP3 format that are locked to your computer so they can't be copied? I agree it's an unusual approach to release an album with!
They're just MP3s. No DRM.
--
moto
-
Wain wrote:
Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer to buy my music on CDs.
Agreed, I like having something tangible, especially when it's got a whole album package to help add to some aspect to the feel of the music or whatever. I like having a physical library that I or my friends can look over (of music, books, and movies for that matter). I'm less inspired/excited when I'm clicking on track names on my screen.
I really like Thom's artwork actually, which is another good reason for buying Radiohead albums :-)
--
moto
-
Wain wrote:
I also really like the idea that somebody put real thought into what tracks are present and track order to create a complete, comprehensive work....that starts to be abandoned to the wayside when it's dumped into my massive collection of MP3's for the most part
Good point. There are only 10 tracks on In Rainbows, coming to a total of about 42 minutes. So they haven't fallen in to the trap of dumping a load of crap songs in to the collection. Every song on In Rainbows is great.
--
moto
-
motorollin wrote:
Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer to buy my music on CDs.
--
moto
Well, I want it on DVD audio.
I don't understand why they don't push that a bit more.
-
Why?
--
moto
-
I always preferred vinyl to cd's.
The sound's more 'close'.
The same can be said about music-dvd's. You immediately hear the difference, even the most untrained ears.
I think it's very important, to feel 'close' to music.
-
Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
I always preferred vinyl to cd's.
The sound's more 'close'.
The same can be said about music-dvd's. You immediately hear the difference, even the most untrained ears.
But I thought anything higher than CD quality was supposed to be indistinguishable from CD audio? (at least by the human ear)
--
moto
-
motorollin wrote:
Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
I always preferred vinyl to cd's.
The sound's more 'close'.
The same can be said about music-dvd's. You immediately hear the difference, even the most untrained ears.
But I thought anything higher than CD quality was supposed to be indistinguishable from CD audio? (at least by the human ear)
--
moto
No, it isn't, certainly not.
That's the salesman argument.
And good equipment makes the difference huge
-
Hmmm, might have to try to get hold of a DVD Audio version of a CD I already own and compare it. Assuming I have anything which will play it of course...
--
moto
-
I wish I had the money. One of the first things I'll buy when I earn enough money is a top-notch audio equipment.
Especially with delicate music of, for instance, Arvo Part, I often miss the essential subtleties.
-
Maybe that's why it hasn't taken off - cos nobody can afford the equipment :roll:
--
moto
-
motorollin wrote:
Maybe that's why it hasn't taken off - cos nobody can afford the equipment :roll:
--
moto
hmyes...
but the same could have been said about dvd video.
I guess they pushed it because dvd's are cheaper to produce than video tapes. CD's and DVD-audio are of course equally expensive. But DVD-audio needs production lines to be build, and cd does not.
But then, there is piracy. They can only keep their business if they offer a better alternative. Which is DVD-audio.
-
I've always been a bit of an audio nut so I've always invested my money in good gear. Even when it comes to CD players you can hear a difference, in my case, when comparing my Denons to an off the shelf Teac or Philips. Yet, even with all this new technology, we still can't match the sound and feel of a piece of 12" vinyl spinning atop a decent direct drive platter, through a perfect diamond tip cartridge.
-
adz wrote:
I've always been a bit of an audio nut so I've always invested my money in good gear. Even when it comes to CD players you can hear a difference, in my case, when comparing my Denons to an off the shelf Teac or Philips. Yet, even with all this new technology, we still can't match the sound and feel of a piece of 12" vinyl spinning atop a decent direct drive platter, through a perfect diamond tip cartridge.
mmmmmm...I need a new turntable, I just inherited a large collection of pristine quality opera recordings.
-
Just out of interest I have just checked on Amazon for vinyl versions of some of the albums I have in my collection. They are so expensive! I know vinyl is thought to have a tonal quality which can't be matched by CDs, but even so I can't justify spending nearly three times the amount on a vinyl copy. Besides, why can't an amplifier approximate the sound of vinyl using some kind of effect?
--
moto
-
Wain wrote:
mmmmmm...I need a new turntable, I just inherited a large collection of pristine quality opera recordings.
Can't go wrong with a Technics SL-1200 MKII ;-)
-
motorollin wrote:
Just out of interest I have just checked on Amazon for vinyl versions of some of the albums I have in my collection. They are so expensive! I know vinyl is thought to have a tonal quality which can't be matched by CDs, but even so I can't justify spending nearly three times the amount on a vinyl copy. Besides, why can't an amplifier approximate the sound of vinyl using some kind of effect?
--
moto
You can't replace the missing "bits" ;-)
-
No, but you can make up new ones :-) I'm not really familiar with the sound of vinyl, being a child of the digital age, but I'm led to believe that vinyl has a more "warm" sound compared to the "cold" sound of digital audio. So again, why can't DSP on a CD player approximate that quality?
--
moto
-
motorollin wrote:
No, but you can make up new ones :-) I'm not really familiar with the sound of vinyl, being a child of the digital age, but I'm led to believe that vinyl has a more "warm" sound compared to the "cold" sound of digital audio. So again, why can't DSP on a CD player approximate that quality?
--
moto
Simply because a turntable is an analogue device, you hear everything that is pressed into the vinyl. Best way I could describe it is like comparing a sign wave to a bar graph. Sure the bar graph can follow the curves of the sign wave, but you loose the smoothness in the process.
As cassette tapes did away with vinyl and CD's did away with cassette tapes, you are in a prime position to see it all happening again as compressed audio and NVRAM take the place of CD's. Its not audio quality that the mass market wants, its convenience.
-
adz wrote:
Simply because a turntable is an analogue device, you hear everything that is pressed into the vinyl. Best way I could describe it is like comparing a sign wave to a bar graph. Sure the bar graph can follow the curves of the sign wave, but you loose the smoothness in the process.
That makes it very clear - thanks! Surely this is a matter of "resolution" though? Make the "bars" on the "bar graph" narrower (and more of them) and the digital representation of the wave, and would therefore sound closer to the vinyl version. Right? And I guess that's roughly how DVD audio works?
adz wrote:
As cassette tapes did away with vinyl and CD's did away with cassette tapes, you are in a prime position to see it all happening again as compressed audio and NVRAM take the place of CD's. Its not audio quality that the mass market wants, its convenience.
Shame! And you're making me want to buy a turntable and find out for myself how it sounds :-)
--
moto
-
adz wrote:
Wain wrote:
mmmmmm...I need a new turntable, I just inherited a large collection of pristine quality opera recordings.
Can't go wrong with a Technics SL-1200 MKII ;-)
I have a pair of Technics. One 1200, one 1210, bought a few years apart.
Not an outstanding record player by any means but does a decent enough job for me and is unbeatable for DJ-ing, IMHO.
I'm also cataloguing my vinyl collection. I've got through 700-odd 12" singles so far. A few more to go, then albums, 7" and 10" singles.
Should be finished by the end of the decade. ;-)
-
Getting back to In Rainbows for a moment, I must make sure I don't listen to it on public transport again. I listened carefully to "Nude" on the train this morning and it made me cry. Quite embarrassing :lol:
--
moto
-
motorollin wrote:
Getting back to In Rainbows for a moment, I must make sure I don't listen to it on public transport again. I listened carefully to "Nude" on the train this morning and it made me cry. Quite embarrassing :lol:
--
moto
:lol: Mental image of people slowly slinking away to the other side of the carriage.
-
:lol: It's ok, there was no flood of tears. I was in the Quiet Zone after all.
--
moto
-
motorollin wrote:
That makes it very clear - thanks! Surely this is a matter of "resolution" though? Make the "bars" on the "bar graph" narrower (and more of them) and the digital representation of the wave, and would therefore sound closer to the vinyl version. Right? And I guess that's roughly how DVD audio works?
To a certain degree, yes, it can be achieved, cue DVD audio, however, I honestly think we are a long way off.
Shame! And you're making me want to buy a turntable and find out for myself how it sounds :-)
--
moto
Hire one and see for yourself ;-)
-
Wilse wrote:
I have a pair of Technics. One 1200, one 1210, bought a few years apart.
Not an outstanding record player by any means but does a decent enough job for me and is unbeatable for DJ-ing, IMHO.
TBH, the only pro grade turntable I've ever used is the 1200 MKII, besides that its a mixed bag of off-the-shelf brand direct drive and belt drive turntables. IMHO, your choice of cartridge has more to do with the actual audio output than the turntable itself. As for DJ'ing, I've been looking at what Vestax has to offer and they look pretty damn good, just gotta get off my backside and try 'em out ;-)
I'm also cataloguing my vinyl collection. I've got through 700-odd 12" singles so far. A few more to go, then albums, 7" and 10" singles.
Should be finished by the end of the decade. ;-)
Two words...Good luck!!! ;-)
-
motorollin wrote:
Getting back to In Rainbows for a moment, I must make sure I don't listen to it on public transport again. I listened carefully to "Nude" on the train this morning and it made me cry. Quite embarrassing :lol:
--
moto
Pull yourself together man...For gods sake, your British! :lol:
Speaking of Rainbow, I saw some clips from that show on YouTube recently, now that almost made me cry, pretty damn cringeworthy too :lol:
-
adz wrote:
Pull yourself together man...For gods sake, your British! :lol:
Yes, but I have an excuse ;-)
--
moto
-
awww sad little british boy....needs comforting... aww
-
Keep your hands where I can see them... ;-)
--
moto
-
:lol: :lol:
-
lmao @ last several posts...
:roflmao:
-
motorollin wrote:
No, but you can make up new ones :-) I'm not really familiar with the sound of vinyl, being a child of the digital age, but I'm led to believe that vinyl has a more "warm" sound compared to the "cold" sound of digital audio. So again, why can't DSP on a CD player approximate that quality?
--
moto
The CD exceeds the quality of a record for the most part. I'm sure somebody will spit out that vinyl can reproduce sounds in the 70KHz + range, but thats only with an exceptional record, produced by people would would actually care about such things and even then, only demonstrable on equipment that you me and several of our friends combined could never afford. And thats if the record is stored and played in a vacuum and read with a laser. Anyway, the chances that you can perceive tones above 22KHz is unlikely.
-
motorollin wrote:
adz wrote:
Simply because a turntable is an analogue device, you hear everything that is pressed into the vinyl. Best way I could describe it is like comparing a sign wave to a bar graph. Sure the bar graph can follow the curves of the sign wave, but you loose the smoothness in the process.
That makes it very clear - thanks! Surely this is a matter of "resolution" though? Make the "bars" on the "bar graph" narrower (and more of them) and the digital representation of the wave, and would therefore sound closer to the vinyl version. Right? And I guess that's roughly how DVD audio works?
Ah, it's not that simple. The process of cutting the master disc from which the vinyls are pressed produces artifacts that are not easily reproducable digitally.
A more correct analysis is that the mechanical nature of the recording introduces all kinds of additional harmonics that were not present in the original signal. No two recording processes will ever produce exactly the same nuances.
You've then got playback itself, where the same effects occur again.
In truth, it's fair to say that the appropriately oversampled and quadratically interpolated digital signal generates a more accurate representation of the original source signal (such DACs are high end though) even given that an analogue media has no meaningful quantization. It's the side effects of the analogue recording that give it it's distinct timbre and warmth.
-
motorollin wrote:
Keep your hands where I can see them... ;-)
--
moto
:lol: