Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Pyromania on October 20, 2007, 04:11:22 AM
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Who is going to be the first one to add a video slot to Minimig so the Video Toaster can work with it?
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Toaster on FPGA!!!!
:roll:
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From memory, the Video Toaster needed at least 68030 (or higher), so JUST a video slot would not be enough. You would also need a larger FPGA to support the extra signals.
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If anyone can give a more electrical lowlevel description of how the video toaster worked could help out making it a reality.
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In addition to the video slot, the Video Toaster also needed a Zorro II slot.
To make it work with MiniMig you would need to expand the RAM to 10Mbytes, add a 68030 CPU and implement the BUSTER chip inside FPGA, maybe use a larger FPGA for the extra I/O's that go with that.
Not feasible.
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alexh wrote:
In addition to the video slot, the Video Toaster also needed a Zorro II slot.
To make it work with MiniMig you would need to expand the RAM to 10Mbytes, add a 68030 CPU and implement the BUSTER chip inside FPGA, maybe use a larger FPGA for the extra I/O's that go with that.
Not feasible.
Perhaps feasible. The original and Video Toaster 4000 both needed only an Amiga Video Slot and 1MB Agnus, not a Zorro II or III slot. The original Toaster even works with a 68000 but it's dog slow. A little fast ram helps as does more than 1MB chip ram. The real accessory slots needed are powered ISA ones for TBCs and the like and some kind of mass storage device like a harddisk to store the Toaster software and OS (not possible to boot it from floppy, iirc). The real key is going to be if the Minimig can sync to 15kHz NTSC, without which the Toaster can't start up.
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I will yeild to your superior knowledge. There seems to be a lot of pins on the boards edge connector for just video.
How does the Amiga set up the Toaster without CPU access?
Is it just "on" all the time?
The blurb says "Realtime transitional effects including Dissolve, 2-D Wipes, Colour Amimation Wipes, Covers, Slides, Oragnic Effects, Digital Effects"
How do you activate and time these effects without Amiga CPU access to the Toaster? Switches?
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What's "ISA" and "TBC" ..?
As for syncing to external video. It seems like a simple matter to produce "c_28m" signal with another DCM using "/XCLK" from the original Amiga video DB23 socket as input.
Btw, any documentation on how the Video Toaster actually works is the key. And I guess it may vary between different Amiga models.
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TBC = Time Base Corrector (some sort of video module)
ISA = Pre-PCI I/O card, I guess the TBC's sit in them but just to draw power.
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ISA = Industry Standard Architecture
Developed by IBM as an 8 bit expansion bus, later modified to 16 bit.
________
Prelude (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_Prelude)
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fregmax: not sure if this would help, but the source for the Toaster has been available for a while :
OpenToaster.org (http://www.openvideotoaster.org/)
Oh, and IIRC a TBC is needed primarily to sync VCR's, for effects, transitions, etc. AFAIK, TBC's are not needed if only camcorders/cameras are used....
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The more you look at the OpenToaster website the more it makes me think it must have had a Zorro interface. Otherwise how did all this software interact with the hardware? Simply though the video output?
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That was my first thought, but then ISA isn't used much in Amiga context. So it didn't make sense to me.
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The ISA slots are not connected to the Amiga hardware without a bridge board. If they are used by a part of the Toaster Hardware or addons it's for power only.
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Confirmed, Argus is wrong. All video toasters must have data connections to the Amiga.
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/search.pl?product=video+toaster&company=
Autoconfig ID = 2191 / 0
If they have an Autoconfig ID then they must be memory mapped.
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The video toaster sets in the Video slot. There is no way it's a Zorro II card. But if you look at the specs for the video slot, there is a lot more there than video. In addition to all the video signals from the DB23, there is the parallel port data. That's how the Amiga controls the Toaster.
It's correct that the TBC cards sold for the Toaster just used the Amiga ISA slots for power. Those were controlled via the serial port. There's a header in the 2000 where the first card connected, and daisy chained to the rest. You could put the same card into a peecee of that time just as well. They usually came with software for both.
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alexh wrote:
Confirmed, Argus is wrong. All video toasters are Zorro II boards.
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/search.pl?product=video+toaster&company=
Autoconfig ID = 2191 / 0
No, you are wrong. The Video Toaster just uses the Video Slot. It is NOT a Zorro II board. Take a look at the pictures.
You do need a parallel port for a video slot though, which the current implementation of the MiniMig doesn't have.
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@mongo:
In what way does it use the parallel port?
(how many signals?, speed?, onput? output?)
The core of video toaster doesn't seem that impossible to do entirely in HDL.
"original A2000 video slot is a 36 pin edge connector"
http://www.thule.no/haynie/systems/amiga2k/docs/video.txt
A4000 24-Bit Video Slot/Connector (36p+54p):
http://www.thule.no/haynie/systems/amiga4k/docs/a4000.not.txt
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JimS wrote:
if you look at the specs for the video slot, there is a lot more there than video. In addition to all the video signals from the DB23, there is the parallel port data. That's how the Amiga controls the Toaster.
Oooh, "you're right jim".
I wonder why they are listed as having an Autoconfig address? Maybe I dont know how Autoconfig works, I thought that they were just Zorro related.
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original videotoaster have autoconfig ID but toaster 4000 dont.
wth? maybe ID its for flyer, not for toaster itself.
200 bucks they say? i still wanna try this card just for fun
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Toaster 2000 (original toaster) is a Video Slot card
Toaster 4000 (AGA toaster) runs in either the video slot or the extended video slot (You need to change jumpers to correct configuration)
Flyer is a Zorro-II card.
Toaster 1.0 runs on a stock 2000, 2.0 would too, though pretty slow.
The video slot is basically the 23 pin video port, the parallel port, audio ports and some power pins. The toaster loads video frames and other items by some very clever code using this interface.
-Tig
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alexh wrote:
I wonder why they are listed as having an Autoconfig address? Maybe I dont know how Autoconfig works, I thought that they were just Zorro related.
I'll defer to Tigger on that, I never saw a 4000 Toaster. Mine's the original model. But I suppose the web site just listed the autoconfig info for the newer model and assumed it applied to all of them.
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Toaster 1.0 runs on a stock 2000, 2.0 would too, though pretty slow.
Howcome Toaster 2.0 become slower in the same enviroment as Toaster 1.0 ..?
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A Mini-MIG toaster version would be best if it used the Flyer and Toaster 4000 board with an AGA chipset version of the Mini-MIG
For those unfamiliar with the toaster. It takes the AGA output in 256- or ham 8 and overlays it onto video. You can switch between a Live camera, live video off a SatTV or Cable box, or PC video NTSC output. You only need a Time Base Corrector for sources coming off tape or Macrovision protected DVD players.
TBC's can be external or internal.
I used a Toaster Flyer setup for nearly 10 years and it was great. I'm at a point where everything minus the live switching can be done infinately faster on a laptop.
The Flyer allows comibnation of switching live and non linear editing, and playback live on a set. You get storyboard editing from the factory settings and there are plugins that enable a timeline of sorts.
It was so impressive that an investor plunked 4000K to buy a second sytem for us when he saw what it could do.
Aside from lightwave you can use low speed 030 as I ran the toaster with the A3200 030 card. I did have a CSPPC233/060 but that helped only with rendering clips, the CSPPC hd controller did speed up the slight processing time required before the flyer played a project... but you can get by with modest CPU power.
I renderd all my lightwave stuff on the PC and burned the flyer clips to CD-ROM and copied them over.
NOWDAYS...For live switching I used NewTek's Tricaster, its a direct anscestor if the TOASTER FLYER housed in a shuttle PC. It's made by NewTek.
Discreet FX is on the right track as this technology was never used in Europe and it'd be a blast to see what demo coders can do with it. Especially since toater 4000's are cheap these days.
What most folks don't realize is that you can used them with existing PC and MAC systems and even as a live switcher for a internet TV webcast. I used to record the flyer output directly into a mac laptop using an analog to DV bridge in Imovie, re-encode and upload!
Actually putting the toaster and flyer and mini-MIG into one FPGA would be great. You can have a self contained unit on just a few chips in a small package. Imagine a Live switcher VJ mixking- MINIMIG the size of an external hard drive enclosure.
Great technology...