Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: A1260 on October 01, 2007, 02:32:33 AM
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It saddens me to see the state of affairs. Back in 1987 or so, I had a Mac Plus, and I went to a friend's house. He had an Amiga, with full color graphics. He even played me a sound file. I even remember it was "Land Of Confusion" by Genesis. It would be another 10 years before I even saw a stereo sound file played on a home computer again.
I felt like my Mac Plus was an abacus in comparison to my friend's Amiga.
Sadly, 20 years later, incompetence and greed have completely destroyed the platform, while its inferior siblings, Mac OS and Windows, live on.
To be a fan of Amiga nowadays is to be a masochist. To have your platform of choice in the hands of incompetent pseudo companies and greedy lawyers must be just painful. At what point do you decide that it's time to move on?
As a Linux user, for all its shortcomings, at least I know that stupid executives and lawyers have very little chance of killing my OS.
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Lots of us have moved on. Many of us use Windows, Linux, and Mac OS machines in addition to our old Amigas. All of the classic Amiga's in my collection are still used occasionally and they are still more fun for me to use than the old XT or 286 I had at the time I bought my first Amiga. It instantly takes me back 10 or 20 years every time I boot one of them up. That's one of the reasons I keep them all. They are still incredible machines, just not compared to todays multiple gigahertz quad core computers.
The platform is in our hands now. It's old, obsolete, outdated, and still very much fun to use. We don't need the parent companies support anymore. We have been doing without them since 1994 or before. New projects like the Mini-Mig will continue to develop as long as we have interest. Projects like AROS and WinUAE will make sure we can run the classic OS long after the last of our old hardware finally dies if we still want to.
It is sad that most of us can't use OS4 and probably won't ever see it run on our own machines. I was really looking forward to buying it. Perhaps someday when it is so old that no one cares anymore we will finally be able to try it out:-)
Jeff
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At what point do you decide that it's time to move on?
I think there's a vast misperception out there about the remaining Amiga hobbiest. We have moved on. I'd have to wager 99% of the members here use one or multiple choices of Mac, *nix, and windows as part of everyday life. Sure, many of us daydream of an Ami comeback, but suprise... we're realist too. We're using all the other platforms out there daily. And not holding our breath about comebacks.
It's not much different than other groups and message boards about 8 bit Atari, commodore, Mame arcade cabinets and game consoles. Many hang around because the old hardware is fun and they've made friends that come back to chat. Some here don't even own Amigas anymore.
In each of these other example groups you don't have questions about... "when are you going to give it up".. "get real"..."join the real world"..."get a real OS" ... when you can make just as good or better case about them using "dead" systems. Some where out there Amigas gained the labels of "zealots", "religious", "crazy". And that's fine by me. We know it's not true, and anyone who spends a bit of time will see too. For me it just makes it that much more fun to be in the gang. Sure there are a few eccentrics, but find me a group of any thing anywhere that doesn't have the same.
Maybe things like AROS, MorphOS or some other Amiga-like OS will fill the gap, and we like to chat all that up. But we know the reality all too well.
PS. Dang, Jeff beat me to some of the same retorts. :-)
Plaz
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A1260 wrote:
As a Linux user, for all its shortcomings, at least I know that stupid executives and lawyers have very little chance of killing my OS.
Sounds like an ad for AROS... :-D
If you like the way Linux is handled (by the open source movement), you will love AROS.
And with some appliance of themes and icons, it even looks quite "Amiga-ish" :-) .
Lookie here: www.sendlingboogiebreaks.de/amiga.png
(this using Ken's Icons, and d980's Retrowhite Theme)
Keep the faith,
Mike :kitty:
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I will always have it as a hobby, no matter what happens.. I just hope my classic gear survives for another 20 years :-P
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As a Linux user, for all its shortcomings, at least I know that stupid executives and lawyers have very little chance of killing my OS.
We will see when trusted computing has been activated fully. ;(
My personal belief is that the x86 platform will be locked down like a console in less than 20 years from now, as they are already working on it from what i have read. It will probably first start with the OS refusing to playback non trusted media files, then applications and so on.. It has already started with non trusted drivers on vista 64bit afaik.
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Oh dear.
(Personally I think it started with XP/2K with all of these background processes that run without us ever clicking an .exe, typing “run” or editing a *user friendly* startup-script)
And I thought our admin-controlled school computer system was bad.
The odd thing is that I've grown up with x86 Microsoft PC's, and now im into amigas. I suppose it a way to say "Not everything has to be Microsoft" - I use my main A1200 for Amateur radio data comms in the shack, though it has been in bits for the past 6 months having various clean-ups and upgrades.
Hodgkinson.
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We will see when trusted computing has been activated fully. ;(
I agree with you, I think we can count on M$ and Apple to continue to try to lock it all down.
I think that we do have other avenues available.
I have recently started to play with Ubuntu. I have a setup in the works that seems to be a suitable replacement for M$, thanks VLC and FireFox.
I hope to see many options continue to become and remain available. I like the idea of having a choice.
On a side note my car, daily driver, is even older than my Amigas, 84 VW Rabbit.
my $.02
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A1260 wrote:
To be a fan of Amiga nowadays is to be a masochist.
Never been a fan at all.
Amiga was, is, (will ?) and still the machine simple to learn computer science, algorithm improvement, hardware study, and sometimes to play games :-)
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Who's suffering?! I'll never move on! My classic machines may need maintenance, but there will always be emulation, and MiniMig!
(My Linux box just decided to crap out on me and crashed every application when I pressed a key, fun huh? At least on AOS I generally knew what /I/ had done to cause the crash... sheesh!)
It's fun for me, and the folks on the boards I have had the pleasure of reading and being helped by, even for non-Amiga related questions. :-D
So, in short, I've never felt a slave to the corporate machine, I've tried to help the community where I can (Cloanto can have my money any day) and generally enjoy the creative past-times afforded by my Amiga.
Linux is for Uni., Windows is for work, Amiga is, and always has been, for play (no Spanish puns intended).
jaminJay
"Amiga.org - The site for MiniMig support and news." :crazy:
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To be a fan of Amiga nowadays is to be a masochist.
A bit harsh, innit? Should we get rid of all the things that still give us enjoyment based purely on their age? I know my missus would be p!ssed if I traded her in for a newer model. The same thing applies to a classic car or heritage building. What about a kit car and a classic Shelby Mustang? Being newer, the kit car might be better from an engineering perspective. It might not be. The point is that age has nothing to do with enjoyment.
I suppose I should go and set fire to my collection of LPs. Afterall, having them on CD would be better, wouldn't it?
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Steril707 wrote:
And with some appliance of themes and icons, it even looks quite "Amiga-ish" :-) .
Lookie here: www.sendlingboogiebreaks.de/amiga.png
(this using Ken's Icons, and d980's Retrowhite Theme)
Mike :kitty:
That looks like heaven to me, imagine running "Fire & Ice" or "Monkey Island" in window there. :angel:
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Why keep suffering?
Only people who are clinging on for the next coming of the Amiga are the ones suffering. I lost interest in any new Amiga (does not count Pegasos + MOS) many years ago. I use it because its fun even though most of my stuff is in storage (except for my trusty A500 and A2k).
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you have it all wrong. If you are just now figuring out that the amiga is not the most efficient machine you need to coma out form the rock you live under. The amiga is a hobby machine at this time. While it may be possible to work only on the amiga it's silly in 2007. Anyway I still enjoy my amigas... as a hobby as something different.
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I love my Miggy's and even though they are dated who needs to move on. I have other computers like PC's, laptops 2 Imac's and 1 PowerMac so I am not missing anything 'New' to say. I still prefer my Amiga to all of them with the exception of web browsing and a few other things. Anyways the Amiga is still the most fun and in my opinion the best systems out there.
Cheers!!!
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I suppose I should go and set fire to my collection of LPs. Afterall, having them on CD would be better, wouldn't it?
Nothing wrong with LPs. But if Amiga were an LP, there would be a core of masochists waiting for LP 4.0 to come out and finally wipe the floor with the hated CD and MP3. :pissed: Damn MP3 thinks it owns the world. :pissed:
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So thats it then is it?
It has been decided by one person that we are suffering.
I am not sufering with my Amiga not in any way. But all the same it has been decided that I/we
I laugh at that type of person who decides for all of us that we are suffering.
Can you please keep me informed of what I am going through please, only I would like to know, just in case I am not sure about myself and only YOU can tell me that.
Please feel free to continue to let me know if I am suffering or not, theres a good fellow.
Mike.
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I still like booting my "Amiga 1260 / CD" to see how good it works, watch a demo or two and then shut it down by just hitting the power switch... not worrying about all these processes that had to be ended on Windows.
I'm not suffering. AMIGA is just fun.
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Mine still does what it did when I thought it was worth spending 600 quid on (A1200+80MB HDD) and a bit more...
It's not like we had microsoft go bust on us and there's no one at the end of the phone to reactivate the OS anymore. :crazy:
but.......
Damn I wish that Commodore UK management buyout had found a backer with deep pockets and worked out...
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Donar wrote:
I still like booting my "Amiga 1260 / CD" see how good it works watch a Demo or two and then shut it down by just hitting the power switch... not worrying about all these processes that had to be ended on Windows.
I'm not suffering. AMIGA is just fun.
Exactly. No suffering here either, just a fun hobby, something to tinker with in the winter when my motorcycle hibernates. :)
Plus, the kids love those old games like Superfrog, Risky Woods, and Zombie Apocalypse II. :-P
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I like my amiga :-)
I recently bought an A4000 :-)
I've never had such a wonderfull machine, but i still miss some upgrades.. More wants more ;-)
Yes, I also use my pc and I use pc every day at work.
Pc ain't fun, but is a "need to have" in theese days :-(
I tryed ubunto on pc, great NON MS system, but it's not the same as my amiga.
But I like useing Amiga.
Why? I don't know.. Maybe..
Because I can :-)
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No… I’m not suffering at all. Actually the opposite! And correct time is not standing still. Development goes on and the world keeps on turning with or without a Amiga computer. So yes I moved on but still enjoy my Amiga after a great break of… (this is a hard one) twelve years…
I like, enjoy keeping alive the machines that could have made a great difference in the world where we live in today… if just more people/companies had purchased a Amiga back then.
What it brings to me?... nothing in fact. Only a hobby where I like to put time in because of its history, because back in 1985 there was a Amiga 1000, made by people that believed in it, with a two button mouse a Motorola 68000 processor at 7 MHz, 512K, 4096 colors on the screen at once! Three custom made chips. A operating system also years ahead of its time. Sound capabilities that are also superior for its time. It also could emulate a 286. The makers of a PC and Apple would have to work much harder if Commodore had a different marketing approach back then trying to sell a C64 on power rocket fuel!… so when it would have made a different approach it would sell more?... earn more money… but would it survive?… would it?... really? We will never know…
Well to keep it short: We keep the Amiga alive and it gives me great satisfaction to do so!
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no suffering here either, i have enjoyed my amiga`s for the past 20years.
and since my hifi cd unit packed up, my amiga is my music cd player :-D
the only suffering i have is when i have to spend out on my pc :-(
BUT when it comes to my amiga thats another story ( speaks to amiga) and what would you like me to buy you this exmas :-D
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I lost interest in any new Amiga (does not count Pegasos + MOS) many years ago. I use it because its fun even though most of my stuff is in storage (except for my trusty A500 and A2k).
What is the difference exactly? Pegasos has been discontinued already and MOS does not run on any other current gen hardware, so you are in the same exact situation as OS4 users.
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I suppose I should go and set fire to my collection of LPs. Afterall, having them on CD would be better, wouldn't it?
Actually the opposite is more often the case with modern music ;(
Most of todays audio cds are horrible compressed, which usually is not the case with the LP releases. Nice example is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ&mode=related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ&mode=related&search=)
Though you cannot really hear the true quality difference in this clip, since youtube audio is of very low bitrate.
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I haven't used any of my Amigas for about 22 months now. At home I mostly use my iBook and at work I use Solaris and Linux. Before my AmigaOneXE got taken apart to debug another board's problems, I'd only used it for vi text editing and compiling. Never really did much other than that with the AmigaOne. I need to finish towering my A3000 before it's useful again, and need to reinstall OS4 to get teh AmigaOne running again, though it's basically reassembled now.
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I'm Mac and PC user and avid gamer,
There is a small market of hardocre users out there. Retro-Consoles and computers are now "cool" just walk into any mass retailer in the USA and you'll see TV retro computer/console games as a staple electronic item.
The Amiga brand is part of that culture and although it's not available in a mass market outlet, and does not enjoy the same brand identity it still has a hardocre cult following akin to the same spirit of console modders, and Mame Arcade enthusiasts.
Despite it's tortured past and present, it has finally achieved a kind of recognition that comes with time. You have entire magazines and sites devoted to retro gaming and computing (Amiga Included).
Upcoming products like the Clone-A and Mini-Mig can only help with that situaion and make it easier for old and new users to explore the platform on modern hardware without the trappings of aging hardware and PC emulation.
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I too moved on, shortly after I bought an AmigaOne and was completely disappointed with it, followed by all the ridiculous propaganda and the whole red vs. blues war.
I freed myself of it and gave it to a friend who later repaired it and used it for PPC Linux. I bought an eMac, this was late 2003. Time ticked on and the Mac gave me absolutely ZERO problems but I found that to be taken seriosuly in this world you need Windows and to get by easily it is just plain easier. I surrendered a few months ago, my Mac has gone on sale, and I have built my own PC which I am actually quite proud of. Even though it is only an Athlon XP clocked at 1.8GHz with a poor 448Mb RAM running XP SP2, I am proud at what I have built because
A) It cost me around £5 to build (99% of the stuff was given to me/recycled, the only new thing was a PS/2 keyboard!)
B) It hasn't really let me down yet, I keep it up to date with all official MS patches and updates, and of course keep the anti-virus and anti-spyware fully updated
However.. like most people I presume on this site these days, I haven't left the Amiga completely.. I just use it as a gaming machine which is what brought me to it in the first place. I was last year re-united with the very same Amiga 600 I bought years ago from a friend. I have boxes of disks and have plenty of fun playing with it.
External disk drive too so hardly any disk swapping :-D
I think its brilliant to just fire it up, put a disk in and go.
I hope someday a computer company will bring out a computer which can be loaded completely from removable media. All work saved on removable media, all programs on removable media. I think its a very under-appreciated way of doing things, there are many advantages.
Edit: OK while I'm here, if you are interested in the Mac send me a PM! It has a 1GHz G4 processor, 512Mb RAM and the very latest Mac OS installed.
Cheers! :pint:
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I'm not suffering.
I enjoy messing with my Amigas. Takes me back to the day when I got my brand new A500. The power I felt when I slapped in that 512k expansion...
I digress. I just enjoy Amigas for what they were. I'm not interested in the OS4/AmigaOne suff. Why bother trying to throw $$$ at something that will just be subpar to my Mac for everything you might want to do with it?
The only suffering I may do is when I get sniped on Ebay by people with more money than sense who seem determined to prevent me getting Amiga stuff I want.
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Most of todays audio cds are horrible compressed, which usually is not the case with the LP releases. Nice example is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ&mode=related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ&mode=related&search=)
Though you cannot really hear the true quality difference in this clip, since youtube audio is of very low bitrate.
The way I understand it is that this is because compressed tunes sell rather better than uncompressed ones. It is not a problem of the medium; it is a problem of targetted marketing. Since LPs are manufactured in such small numbers nowadays, you can afford a gray beard who still knows how to make a recording which sounds good, and not just a recording the suits think sounds good. But this is all a bit off topic.
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The people suffering are using Micro$oft products.
My Amiga 3000T has a 68060 and Voodoo 4 graphics card making it a pretty snappy system. It is fast enough for 90% of what people do with their computers. Software is cheap or free and some of it is very good. I just bought Pagestream 4.1 for less than $30 shipped off e-bay today for example. The Amiga does lack a good web browser or it would be used the most at home instead of my Winblows laptop which I have networked with my Amiga using SMB. The laptop is 3.2 GHz and slows down and has to be defragged about once a month and I don't even install much software on it. Plus it is always trying to do things I don't want it to. It does run some software that only runs on Windows like my software for editing the settings in my '93 Mazda RX-7 ECU (computer), another hobby of mine. The RX-7 engine has no pistons and is really small (80 ci = 1.3 liters) and people make fun of it and say it's outdated technology and unreliable which in a lot of ways it is but I have beaten a 454 ci Chevell SS and a couple of smaller displacement crotch rockets from a roll in it. The handling and breaks are amazing and the 7 is the funnest car I've ever driven. After driving the 7, I wasn't impressed by my uncles Porsche 996 (basically a newer 911) which I drove. It felt stiff and heavy even though it's about as fast, handles well, and has much bigger breaks (but longer stopping distance) compared to my 7. The Amiga is the same way. It's really good at some things when most just look for the most speed. I will buy the newer PPC Amigas with AmigaOS 4 if they ever come out and I'll use my classic Amiga for some things too. Whatever tool is best for the job and fun to use will be my tool of choice.
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matthey wrote:
The people suffering are using Micro$oft products.
My Amiga 3000T has a 68060 and Voodoo 4 graphics card making it a pretty snappy system. It is fast enough for 90% of what people do with their computers. Software is cheap or free and some of it is very good. I just bought Pagestream 4.1 for less than $30 shipped off e-bay today for example. The Amiga does lack a good web browser or it would be used the most at home instead of my Winblows laptop which I have networked with my Amiga using SMB. The laptop is 3.2 GHz and slows down and has to be defragged about once a month and I don't even install much software on it. Plus it is always trying to do things I don't want it to. It does run some software that only runs on Windows like my software for editing the settings in my '93 Mazda RX-7 ECU (computer), another hobby of mine. The RX-7 engine has no pistons and is really small (80 ci = 1.3 liters) and people make fun of it and say it's outdated technology and unreliable which in a lot of ways it is but I have beaten a 454 ci Chevell SS and a couple of smaller displacement crotch rockets from a roll in it. The handling and breaks are amazing and the 7 is the funnest car I've ever driven. After driving the 7, I wasn't impressed by my uncles Porsche 996 (basically a newer 911) which I drove. It felt stiff and heavy even though it's about as fast, handles well, and has much bigger breaks (but longer stopping distance) compared to my 7. The Amiga is the same way. It's really good at some things when most just look for the most speed. I will buy the newer PPC Amigas with AmigaOS 4 if they ever come out and I'll use my classic Amiga for some things too. Whatever tool is best for the job and fun to use will be my tool of choice.
I'll agree the RX7 was an amazing car in its day (and still a great ride), but the slowest 996 is still 1 second quicker to 60, and likewise will stop some 20-30 feet sooner, also from 60. This is of course assuming both cars in excellent stock condition (naturally aspirated 996). They're close enough though, that in a "real world" contest I think it would mostly be a matter of the better driver. (Actually, it's pretty amazing that a 1993 Japanese car can hold a candle to a modern Porsche.)
The wankel engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine) is definitely a fantastic design. Back in the 70s, Mercedes developed a special test vehicle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C111) utilizing the wankel (and later, quite interestingly a 5-cyl turbodiesel), which set a bunch of world records, many of which still stand IIRC.
/off topic
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@-D-
The stock RX-7 could stop from 60 mph in 110 feet!...
http://www.fd3s.net/magazine_articles/motor_trend_article01.html
and the stock pads were not very agressive. Knock off 100 lbs of weight (as I have) and add more aggressive pads and you better have your seatbelt fastened. The 996 I drove was a 4 wheel drive Turbo with Tiptronic transmission and I found the boost to be laggy and the transmission slow. Rotary's on the other hand produce tons of hot exhaust that directly hits the turbos without going through a valve train. They are made for Turbo's and produce near instantaneous boost in stock form. My 7 with just bolt-ons ran 12.8 in the 1/4 while very rich and untuned at the time. The 996 might even beat me 0-60 with the 4WD but RX-7's launch pretty well too. Yea, stock for stock the Porshe would win but it's not really in the same class (price range) as the RX-7 and the newer technology got better. Same with the newer Corvettes performing better but my RX-7 is funner to drive than both and can hang with them pretty well. I have modernized my 7 to neutralize some of their advantage and made the car even funner. Some have removed the rotary engine from the 7 and put in a V8 which has some advantages but it's just not the same without the heart and soul of the car. I would rather tweak the interesting and unique stuff and see what it's capable of even if it's not the biggest, fastest or the best. The same goes with the Amiga. See, I even brought it back on topic :-D.
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Hi,
Suffering ? me ? why ?
I enjoy every minute of "fun" with my Amigas.
I'm not the sort of bloke who "HAS" to keep up with the Joneses either, I dont own a PC (IBM Compatable) and my Amigas do it all for me.
Kind Regards, Michael
aka rockape
Founder member of http://WWW.lincsamiga.org.uk
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Not too many people here use a stock Amiga as their sole computer.
Most have Win-PCs, Macs, Linux boxen -and- heavily expanded Amigas.
So, no one seems to be "suffering".
Personally, I like computer tech' in general so I have/had all of the above. The only people suffering are those who dislike their computer and refuse to try anything different.
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I fought until early 2002. Used my A4kD as my sole computer up till then. Got a new job where I had to keep up so I got my first ever amd powered windows/linux machine.
My A4kD still runs 24/7 though. I use it for a few different things, one is as IRC-server. I think it has an uptime of about 5 months in average, a lot more than the windows machine I use as webserver and for my skype phone, have to restart that about once a month.
Got three computers running 24/7 here and whenever I get into the hallway and hear the humming of the psu fan of the 4k it makes me warm somehow. I still have the original WB installation that I installed back in 1992 when I got it. It's just been updated and moved to a new harddrive since then.
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Only have an Amiga myself.
There is a windows machine in the house that belongs to the missus.
Very rarely have to use that.
Browsing isn't as bad as people make out although I would like to see a more upto date browser.
The only thing I really miss us the ability to see youtube clips.
There is Mplayer for 4.0 but am only running 3.9 at the min.
To be honest, the only time I do suffer is when I do have to use the windows machine.
Wait forever for the thing to boot up and then wait again whilst the thing shuts itself down.
Pain in the backside just to watch a 2 min clip on youtube.
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@Tomas
That's not how CDs were originally made back in the 80's (Telarc CDs were incredible for their "punch"). When I play my old CDs, they seem very quiet compared to modern CDs. Today, CDs are all normalized to fill the gamut.
Similar problems exists with color management. NOBODY understands how to do color management properly, and I mean nobody. Why is it when I tell my printer that a color is #C3C3C3, it prints green? Doesn't it know that when you have equal parts of red, green, and blue, you should get gray? Stupid forced color mapping!
This is all bad mastering, not the fault of the technology.
A lot of craftsmanship "suffers" over the years because they forget the old fashioned way of doing things, and more importantly, WHY they were done that way in the first place.
Hell, have you ever seen a PC game that throttles its framerate to sync with the monitor? Even some console games are out of sync these days. Don't these developers know that drawing graphics too fast actually makes things look worse?!
New hardware or old hardware is not going to solve this. People just need to be aware of the problems to fix them. The reason why I insist on running Amiga software strictly on modern hardware is because the hardware is not the problem. Insisting on custom hardware is not going to do anything.
It's suffering, all right.
TiredOLife: "To be honest, the only time I do suffer is when I do have to use the windows machine.
Wait forever for the thing to boot up and then wait again whilst the thing shuts itself down."
Get rid of your OEM Windows and get a retail copy. My XP machine boots in 18 seconds, with Apache and MySQL in the background. It does take a whopping 5 seconds to shut down, though.
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Waccoon wrote:
TiredOLife: "To be honest, the only time I do suffer is when I do have to use the windows machine.
Wait forever for the thing to boot up and then wait again whilst the thing shuts itself down."
Get rid of your OEM Windows and get a retail copy. My XP machine boots in 18 seconds, with Apache and MySQL in the background. It does take a whopping 5 seconds to shut down, though.
I have a retail box of XP, takes 4 minutes 12 seconds to go from power-on to usability, and can take from 45 minutes to 5 hours to shutdown. Yes, 5 hours.
And it's not even 4 months old an install.
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@Waccoon
Wasn't aware the OEM version was slower than the full version to boot up and shut down.
Why is that?
Cheers
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TiredOLife wrote:
@Waccoon
Wasn't aware the OEM version was slower than the full version to boot up and shut down.
Why is that?
Cheers
OEM's like packaging up a ton of junk that you cannot remove. It's like buying a car from a dealer that adds a $200 "pinstriping" charge.
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downix wrote:
OEM's like packaging up a ton of junk that you cannot remove. It's like buying a car from a dealer that adds a $200 "pinstriping" charge.
That's only relevant if you use the factory load. The first thing I do when I get a Dell is reload using the OEM disk, everything's spit-spot.
But there are a number of factors which affect Windows XP performance, one big one which most people tend to overlook: quick versus full NTFS format. A full format takes longer during the installation, but you will see a massive performance benefit. Then there's the speed of the drive interface, memory (256MB is BARE MINIMUM for XP as of SP2 if you want any semblance of performance,) and so on.
As for Amigas, the only suffering which I experience is the inability to purchase or register some software packages (Miami, in particular.) Other than that, I love my machines. My exgf reminds me that when we started dating in 2000, the only PC in my apartment was only ever used to run the specialized Windows-based billing software used by the ISP I worked for. Everything else I did on my Amiga 4000. It wasn't until 2001 when I actually purchased my first full-fledged Windows machine, a laptop.
If it weren't for the work I do, I could easily go to being all Amiga on the home-front. Even if I had a job in a PC world, I could either not work at home, or use a company laptop to do a few things at home as necessary.
Now, web browsing does make things a little more difficult. I'm pretty sure that my bank's on-line system won't work with Amiga, but I've never tried :-) Might need a PC for that. But then, it doesn't necessarily have to be Windows: my Solaris 8 workstation with Firefox handles this aspect quite well.
Anyway, far from suffering, I find that my interest in all of my "classic" or "retro" or flat-out obsolete computers is enlightening. While the machines themselves may be obsolete, the thought and spirit behind them is certainly not. I believe that I have a good grasp on various technologies, and am well-rounded enough to not be dragged into fanboydom. I am also going to enjoy getting into hardware hacking on the Amiga, just as much as I did on the TI and the C64. I'm looking forward to being able to spend some time converting my TI BASIC programs into machine language, C64 programs to C128, and learning programming on the Amiga. I'm also hoping to expand into the ST and Atari 8-bit a little. I know there are more systems out there. A friend drolls on about programming the Z80 CPU, which I've never done, only TMS-9900 and 6502, so that would be interesting as well.
Why? Pursuit of knowledge, perhaps? Personal satisfaction? Mental masturbation? What does it matter so long as you're happy and productive in both the real and your own world?
A colleague asks me a few months ago about my interest in Solaris. He says, does that make you any money? Well, technically none of my customers use it, but it is a part of my own server infrastructure which is used by a number of customers. In a way, yes, it does make me a little money. But the knowledge of something other than Windows helps me to understand more about the technological world in which we live. And besides, if one day I decide to ditch this self-employment gig, the state often advertises jobs involving experience with Solaris and Windows environments which pay $75k+. So, yeah, it might make me money.
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LoadWB wrote:
downix wrote:
OEM's like packaging up a ton of junk that you cannot remove. It's like buying a car from a dealer that adds a $200 "pinstriping" charge.
That's only relevant if you use the factory load. The first thing I do when I get a Dell is reload using the OEM disk, everything's spit-spot.
The junk is on the OEM disk. I have a Dell OEM, the install it gives includes such things as Dell remote diagnostic software.
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It's a collectors item, why do people by anything old? Yeah, I can't do anything serious on the Amiga, but who cares? Just load up a game or two and relax, it's a hobby. Once you accept that Amiga isn't coming back as a serious contender you can just revel in the fun computer "antiquing."
The iMac puts food on the table (earns me a living), edits my pictures and video, the Amiga is really a "boys toy," something to play with in my spare time. They (the Amiga and the Mac) serve different needs live together quite happily...
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downix wrote:
The junk is on the OEM disk. I have a Dell OEM, the install it gives includes such things as Dell remote diagnostic software.
You sure that's not still on the hard drive? At this point I've done hundreds (literally *sigh*) of Dell OEM reloads and have never seen the Dell Diagnostic software installed from the CD. At least, not as of SP1a; I haven't reinstalled Dell OEM prior to that release.
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Jeff wrote:
. Perhaps someday when it is so old that no one cares anymore we will finally be able to try it out:-)
Jeff
You couldn't be more correct about using the old hardware and os4 will only see light of day after its worthless.
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LoadWB wrote:
downix wrote:
The junk is on the OEM disk. I have a Dell OEM, the install it gives includes such things as Dell remote diagnostic software.
You sure that's not still on the hard drive? At this point I've done hundreds (literally *sigh*) of Dell OEM reloads and have never seen the Dell Diagnostic software installed from the CD. At least, not as of SP1a; I haven't reinstalled Dell OEM prior to that release.
New HD in this case.
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@Waccoon
My XP machine boots in 18 seconds, with Apache and MySQL in the background. It does take a whopping 5 seconds to shut down, though.
Mine takes about 2 seconds to do both (except that I don't really power the system down, just suspend it).
More here: S3 Standby Done Right (http://www.exoid.com/?page_id=47)
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downix wrote:
LoadWB wrote:
downix wrote:
The junk is on the OEM disk. I have a Dell OEM, the install it gives includes such things as Dell remote diagnostic software.
You sure that's not still on the hard drive? At this point I've done hundreds (literally *sigh*) of Dell OEM reloads and have never seen the Dell Diagnostic software installed from the CD. At least, not as of SP1a; I haven't reinstalled Dell OEM prior to that release.
New HD in this case.
Dunno what to tell you then, m8. I've never seen this on any of my installs.
I do the install, download and install drivers (drivers ONLY, no applications,) install Windows Updates (all 280MB of them after a new SP2 load :-() and voila.
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The junk is on the OEM disk. I have a Dell OEM, the install it gives includes such things as Dell remote diagnostic software.
Every dell laptop I have had has had a seperate OEM xp disk and a disk with all their crap on it. I infact used a dell XP SP2 disk yesterday to take vista off my laptop , completlty plain xp install and boots in seconds
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Now, web browsing does make things a little more difficult. I'm pretty sure that my bank's on-line system won't work with Amiga, but I've never tried Might need a PC for that.
I haven't tried for a few years but the last time I tried with my bank, should be about 3 years ago, it worked quite well as long as I set Voyager to spoof as IE.
My bank still uses the same security system so it might still work, depens on how much they've updated it.
Not that I need it but it could be fun to try. :)
I'm sure I could do it on my Nokia N70 as well. :P
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Why keep Suffering? I don't know, I guess I like it! :-D
(http://Http://www.Visualcode.org/images/c10.jpg)
(http://Http://www.Visualcode.org/images/c12.jpg)
(http://Http://www.Visualcode.org/images/c11.jpg)
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:-o :-o :-o Just great!
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The way I understand it is that this is because compressed tunes sell rather better than uncompressed ones. It is not a problem of the medium; it is a problem of targetted marketing. Since LPs are manufactured in such small numbers nowadays, you can afford a gray beard who still knows how to make a recording which sounds good, and not just a recording the suits think sounds good. But this is all a bit off topic.
Yes, you are completely correct about it not being a limitation of the cd format. Most cds that were made in the early days of the cd format was infact not compressed like this.
I wish they could just implement a button on all amps/recievers, so that people can choose themself if they want loud and flat sound instead of full dynamic range.
But the result is still the same... The majority of commercial music produced today, just simply sound better in the LP format in most cases.
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@amiga92570
Wow dude, you've got some seriously sweet hardware there. Those A3000 towers rock! :drool:
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Tomas wrote:
I wish they could just implement a button on all amps/recievers, so that people can choose themself if they want loud and flat sound instead of full dynamic range.
Yeah actually, I want such a button for opposite reasons, end up with too much dynamic range on DVDs for instance, so I have to turn the volume way up to hear what's happening in the quiet scenes, over the top of my mother in law rattling pans in the kitchen, or the cats crashing around, or neighbours mowing the lawn or whatever else, then all of a sudden there's an action scene and I'm blowing the windows and my eardrums out.
I'd appreciate dynamic range if I had a nice padded cell 1000ft underground in the middle of nowhere.
I guess CDs are made for people listening with headphones in noisy environments where you need a fairly constant volume level.
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RW222 wrote:
Tomas wrote:
I wish they could just implement a button on all amps/recievers, so that people can choose themself if they want loud and flat sound instead of full dynamic range.
Yeah actually, I want such a button for opposite reasons, end up with too much dynamic range on DVDs for instance, so I have to turn the volume way up to hear what's happening in the quiet scenes, over the top of my mother in law rattling pans in the kitchen, or the cats crashing around, or neighbours mowing the lawn or whatever else, then all of a sudden there's an action scene and I'm blowing the windows and my eardrums out.
I'd appreciate dynamic range if I had a nice padded cell 1000ft underground in the middle of nowhere.
I guess CDs are made for people listening with headphones in noisy environments where you need a fairly constant volume level.
Yes, it could definitely be useful in some situations.. It is for example not always a good idea to watch a dvd with full dynamic range in late evening/night unless one lives at home. Though some dvd players do already have this option.