Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: bon on July 06, 2003, 08:34:08 PM
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Is there any way I can install Workbench 3.5 or 3.9 with Kickstart 3.0? Any help will be very much appreciated. Thanx! :-P
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You can always softkick your amiga with a 3.1 rom like I do, but it'll take a bit of memory (512kb?). Plus of course, you need the actual 3.1 rom for your machine type.
Sincerely,
-Kenneth Straarup.
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i would say best thing is to just buy the damn kickstarts, they are cheap and its really worth it! ... guys they are allready almost 10 years old...
its about time i guess..
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OT warnong OT :-D
Lempkee... that name rings bells like crazy! Wasn't that the name of the sysop of Harbor lights BBS where Team Amiga started? I thought he died a while ago?
/edit/ nevermind, the name I was thinking about was "Lembree"
Carry on... :-P
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lempkee wrote:
i would say best thing is to just buy the damn kickstarts, they are cheap and its really worth it! ... guys they are allready almost 10 years old...
its about time i guess..
I agree! the only reason i can see for not having kickstart 3.1 is pure laziness
either buy an original kickstart 3.1 or put up with not having 3.5/3.9
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@elendil
what softkicker do you use? Ive tried about three off aminet that havent worked.. softboot, zkick, and blizkick... I've got a Blizzard A1240T ERC accelerator, lots of memory.
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iamaboringperson wrote:
either buy an original kickstart 3.1 or put up with not having 3.5/3.9
So much for the Amiga spirit of making things work with what is at hand.
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th4t1guy
muck around with hardware all you want.
but when i comes to proprietary software you MUST follow the licence agreement
AFAIK hacking around with kickstart files and trying to get 3.5/3.9 to work with a 3.0 ROM's goes against the licence agreement
3.5/3.9 were made for a 3.1 ROM, for more than just technical reasons, so live with it
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I could tell you how to install it but it wouldn't run since it would say that you do not have a current kickstart. Look around on the net to see if you can find a good soft kicker but you'll need to have a 3.1 kickstart file to do it. You can get a kickstart legally from Cloanto with their "Amiga Forever" product.
When I first got OS3.5 it wouldn't install on UAE (Amiga died about 6 months after it was released) and found about 3 ways to install 3.5 without using an installer. One of those three is extremely easy and works like a charm regardless of what version your kickstart says, but won't work unless your system boots up in 3.1 kickstart. Not only that but the kickstart must be able to survive a warm reset to the system. Have a look at the "Emergency-Start" directory... you'll need to modify some of the files and tweak a few things afterwords but it's about the same as a fresh install.
The most painless way by far though is to just bite the bullet and purchase the 3.1 kickstart and install it... it's not hard to do so in any of the Amiga systems.
:pint:
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Give me a break. If you wanted to be anal enough, you could find plenty of other things that violate the DMCA (HD-install scripts, for example). However, hypothetically, one could purchase Amiga Forever, or even simply own another machine with 3.1 roms, use a softkicker, and still remain perfectly legal.
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As I understood it, OS3.9 patches the kickstart anyway, so without a proper 3.1 kickstart (ie. chip based, not softkicked) it wont work anyway.
I got my 3.1 kickstarts off of the guy who is currently selling them on ebay.co.uk, and they arrivedwithin 3 days, and worked perfectly.
-Jar.
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If you can afford to buy an OS3.5 or OS3.9 CD, you can afford to buy Kickstart ROMs. You DID buy a CD, right?
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I bought the 3.1 Kickstart today based on your advising. Thank you all. :-P
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@ jahc
what softkicker do you use? Ive tried about three off aminet that havent worked.. softboot, zkick, and blizkick... I've got a Blizzard A1240T ERC accelerator, lots of memory.
You can use blizkick to accomplish this.
But how you do it, is up to you to figure out, as I have real 3.1 Roms in my amigas (The easiest solution).
But it should be possible with blizkick, on a blizzard/cyberstorm/A3640/other blizkick compatible accelerator card (if any).
-Paul
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I was led to believe that the kickstart ROM's in the 1200 were surface mounted and could not be upgraded. Is this not true?
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@amyhr:
You're right; its not true :-P
They're socketed on ALL Amigas, AFAIK.
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As I understood it, OS3.9 patches the kickstart anyway, so without a proper 3.1 kickstart (ie. chip based, not softkicked) it wont work anyway.
The Kickstart 3.1 requirement in AmigaOS 3.5/3.9 is artificial. The image itself is not patched (that is impossible, it is ROM after all), but KickMem and KickTag pointers are used to replace complete resident modules (libraries/devices/resources and such), as documented already in the original RKRMs.
AmigaOS 3.9 BoingBag2 introduced exec.library replacement, so there is no excuse of requiring 3.1 ROM, all modules can be replaced anyway. Earlier the argument was that not all modules could be replaced, for example exec.library and expansion.library.
Thus in theory Kickstart 2.0x would have been sufficient for AmigaOS 3.5/3.9. The SetPatch "AmigaOS ROM Update" loader would have replaced more modules for older kickstarts: KS 2.0x and 3.0 would have been patched upto 3.1 + the OS 3.5/3.9 modules.
One can only speculate the real reason for requiring Kickstart 3.1. The coder's lazyness, H&P's desire to sell more 3.1 ROM chips bundled with AmigaOS 3.5/3.9, or something else... I guess there is no way to know now.
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...or the fact that it was only sold as an UPGRADE
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...or the fact that it was only sold as an UPGRADE
Really? Interesting...
What for the AmigaOS 3.5 package had tickbox for "Kickstart 3.1 chip included" then?
--edit--
chip not image
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Piru that just means that the update also included the older(3.1) version also... you do know that two versions were on the CD, dont you? 3.1 AND 3.5...
(imagine that it is sort of like the original win98, but with win95 included as well)
my version was purly an upgrade... and for A 4000 T owners not a very well tested/thought out one!
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Workbench 3.1 and 3.5 are on the CD (just checked). You had to pay extra to get the Kickstart 3.1 chip also. There is a tickbox on the side of the AmigaOS 3.5 package to indicate if one is included.
I have no clue if the original package was to include it, or if the dealer was supposed to package one inside it and tick the tickbox.
AmigaOS 3.5 could have easily been made not to require Kickstart 3.1 chip.
Lots of ppl paid for 3.1 chip for nothing, in my opinion.
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I have no clue if the original package was to include it, or if the dealer was supposed to package one inside it and tick the tickbox.
i dont know who put the chip in the box, and ticked on the outside, but i know the chip was optional
A 4000 T users for example, would find the 3.1 ROM redundant
anyway.. an aweful lot of people already had 3.1(besides CD32 and A 4000 T owners i mean) therefore it was probably a logical thing to offer the upgrade to those people
AmigaOS 3.5 could have easily been made not to require Kickstart 3.1 chip.
firstly it would of ment more patches
it would also mean that there are two different previous versions to upgrade from floating around, the software would probably need to be written to patch different things depending on the ROM, which would make the software larger, probably slower, and more difficult to debug/maintain for the developers
Lots of ppl paid for 3.1 chip for nothing, in my opinion.
(for those who didnt have 3.1 already) they bought it to use 3.5 ! :-P
--edit-- (changed 'obsolete' to 'redundant' to make it say more sense more)
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an aweful lot of people already had 3.1(besides CD32 and A 4000 T owners i mean)
All but AT and later A1200s had Kickstart 3.0.
firstly it would of ment more patches
it would also mean that there are two different previous versions to upgrade from floating around, the software would probably need to be written to patch different things depending on the ROM, which would make the software larger, probably slower, and more difficult to debug/maintain for the developers
I explained this once already.
There would have been modules for Kickstart 2.x and 3.0 to upgrade these to Kickstart 3.1 level. Just simple KickMem/KickTag stuff like always. No separate sw patching or hacking is required. No maintaining is required, as Kickstart 3.1 is fixed in stone. These parts would have been "static", always the same.
Then the 3.5/3.9 modules on top of that. These are the modules where the real work is done.
Then if you would have wanted to save memory and have cleaner system you could have bought true Kickstart 3.1 chip. Here, no patching to Kickstart 3.1 level would have been required, only the 3.5/3.9 modules like now.
I hope I explained this clearly enough now.
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All but AT and later A1200s had Kickstart 3.0.
before 3.5, 3.1 was already available as an upgrade - for most non-1200/4000 users there was no 3.0
AFAIK(and correct me if im wrong) the newer escom 1200's also had 3.1, however, i could be wrong with that one
I explained this once already.
...
I hope I explained this clearly enough now.
:lol:
you would either need to patch all functions - which would be rediculous
or, more likely you would need different patches for different versions of the OS
patching 2.04 all the way up to 3.5 is just plain rediculous!
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Correct.
Kickstart 3.0 only exists for A1200 and A4000 (desktop).
For a while, workbench3.0 (AGA) and workbench2.1 (OCS/ECS) coexisted in the market (until 3.1 was released).
Kickstart 3.1 was later made for all amigas.
All A4000T's (genuine T's made by C= or Escom) were shipped with 3.1, as were all CD32's (the first amiga with kick3.1).