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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: LoadWB on September 27, 2007, 03:08:16 AM
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Holy cow! Done properly, the CD32 really could have given Sega a run for its money. I just picked up some NTSC games and am floored at the quality.
Games like "Microcosm" (I'm a Psygnosis groupie, anyway) and "Lotus III" are fantastic. And the SVideo output to my LCD monitor is sweet.
And I'll brag on "Lotus III" a bit. This is the only racing game I can think of from the era that combined so many different elements: dynamic terrain, weather (lightning and snow looks cool!) and far-away scenery (even though it's mostly static.) There's more to it, really. Given the chance, I think Psygnosis, Team 17, Gremlin, and others really could have pushed the envelope for gaming in the US even further.
I'm finding that I really enjoy some of the CD32 games more than Playstation games. And speaking of, a smart Commodore would have been planning a second generation CD32 to push past the Playstation. But, alas, nothing but vapors and dreams.
Makes me also think of the ill-fated Dreamcast, or XBox Beta, I should say. Man, Sega got screwed.
Okay, I think that's enough random thoughts and time for a pizza.
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Makes me also think of the ill-fated Dreamcast, or XBox Beta, I should say. Man, Sega got screwed.
That's what happens when you partner with Microsoft.
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Matt_H wrote:
That's what happens when you partner with Microsoft.
I hear they don't call you the next day.
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@LoadWB
time for a pizza.
I can't believe you ate the whole thing.
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Matt_H wrote:
Makes me also think of the ill-fated Dreamcast, or XBox Beta, I should say. Man, Sega got screwed.
That's what happens when you partner with Microsoft.
What, is Microsoft (partly) responsible for the Dreamcast's demise?
I'm a big Dreamcast fan, owning two of them (and lots of peripherals), but I never heard this story. Please enlighten me. :-)
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Microsoft partnered with Sega for the Dreamcast to make it "Windows CE Certified." Yes, your Dreamcast can run Windows. Microsoft then let it languish and used the experience to develop to X-Box, which is built on a stripped down "embedded" Windows 2000 kernel. I found the full story on it a while back, but the site is no longer operational. I'll see if Google is my friend later today.
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I agree the CD32 was a great console (still is). I finally got Litil Divil a bit ago for mine and have been playing it a lot. I am almost through the 3rd level and have drawn maps for level 1,2 and most of 3. I tried to find help on the game prior to and couldn't find much so i had to figure out all the game rooms thus far by myself. I must admit it is quickly becoming a top favorite for me. Microcosm is graphically awesome, but lags in the gameplay department. Enjoy you're new games. I am trying to get as many CD32 games as possible for my collection and am so far at 22. If anyone has any for sale (in the U.S.) let me know what they are and how much.
Cheers
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Pirates, Chaos Engine and Mean Arenas were the three I played to death on my CD32.
The only thing I wasn't keen on was the TINY memory it had for game saves. Otherwise, I was a great console.
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LoadWB wrote:
Microsoft partnered with Sega for the Dreamcast to make it "Windows CE Certified." Yes, your Dreamcast can run Windows. Microsoft then let it languish [...]
I am aware that the Dreamcast is Windows CE Certified, and that Microsoft let it languish. Even so, the Dreamcast had a large lineup of great games, and didn't seem to suffer much from Microsoft's lack of commitment. I am interested to hear if Microsoft actively did anything to kill SEGA's brilliant console, so please let me know when (if) you find the aforementioned article. :-o
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@ madsjm
They didn't really do anything to actively kill the Dreamcast, but when it was suffering after the release of the PS2, they certainly didn't try to help it or do anything that one might expect from the definition of "partner." Instead they used the experience to get a foot in the door for the XBox.
That's what Microsoft does with its parters - milks experience/technology, and then tries to corner the market with their own version of the partner's product. Had Sega not bungled their market position against Sony, I'm sure Microsoft would have made certain that they were squeezed out by the XBox.
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From my memory of the situation:
When retailers and developers heard MS was working on the xbox and the vast amounts of cash they were willing to dump into getting market share...
Sega quietly and abruptly exited the hardware business. The resounding success of the Playstation 2 juggernaut was probably more responsible for the demise of SEGA Dreamcast...
How do I know? Becuase we were involved with aquiring a Sega license at the time and the whole deal dissolved when MS stepped in...there was no hint of this happening to us and we were in negotiations for licensing some game product. The Sega folks we dealt with were a bit bummed.
It's interesting to note that in a Dreamcast magazine, a UK Sega executive joked about the similarites betwen Dreamcast and XBOX... right down to the layout of the controller. But in Microsofts defense.. The XBOX is black and uses a Celeron P4, and it actually is a great console that I've spent waaaaayyyy to many hours on.
:lol:
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M$ let down Dreamcast?
Dreamcast was not supposed to run Win CE apps. Dreamcast was sold at a loss, like nearly all modern consoles. When you sell at a loss you have to make your money with accessories and game license fees related to console attach rate. The LAST THING you want is to use the system for something other than a video game system. That's why Sony, Nintendo and M$ will sue for bypassing the system ROMs. They need each buyer to buy enough games to cover the difference when they sold at a loss. At least at first. Later they will often become lax as the consoles are built for less than they are sold for (I think Sony even came out with a Linux port for the PS2.)
Sega dropped the Dreamcast when they hit the 1 million mark slower than their forecast and had a lower than projected attach rate which indicated they would not reach their critical mass point over the lifecycle of that generation of consoles, meaning that like M$ Xbox, they would have been a money loser over the entire life of Dreamcast.
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Matt_H wrote:
@ madsjm
They didn't really do anything to actively kill the Dreamcast, but when it was suffering after the release of the PS2, they certainly didn't try to help it or do anything that one might expect from the definition of "partner." Instead they used the experience to get a foot in the door for the XBox.
In the console business, are you aware of what the definition of a partner is?
IBM is a PARTNER of Microsoft AND Sony. They developed the Cell and the Xenon. Did IBM let down Microsoft by concurrently developing for Sony?
M$ “letting Sega down” would have been if the OS promised did not work well, or was not done on time or had run into cost overruns. One of he reasons you hear so much about M$ being a partner to Sega on Dreamcast is because Sega wanted to add weight to the argument that Dreamcast was a very well designed system (Sony point to the IBM Cell to add similar weight, but do not expect IBM to help bail out Sony in any way is PS3 tanks.) Also, M$ wanted to legitimize Windows CE by showing how scalable it was and how fast they could deliver to a big client in a time-sensitive situation. Hate M$ as you may, you have to admit that they hit a home run for Sega.
This entire thread is insipid. Amazing how little this group of nerds seems to know about video game consoles. Really.
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Terse wrote:
Matt_H wrote:
@ madsjm
This entire thread is insipid. Amazing how little this group of nerds seems to know about video game consoles. Really.
I hope NERDS was meant in a familial sense.... Otherwise, this little nerd smash!
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What amazing is how this thread has gone from the CD32 to everything but the CD32.
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amigakid wrote:
What amazing is how this thread has gone from the CD32 to everything but the CD32.
hehehe Indeed :-) But I have been digging through my archive of software, and I forgot about Test Drive II. It has rolling scenery, though still nowhere as good as Lotus III. (I know, OCS versus AGA, 68000 versus 68020, but I made a statement earlier and this example has the potential to discredit that statement.)
Something I find striking is the amount of detail and work that went into the Commodore 64 versions of games versus the Amiga. In some cases the music and graphics of the C64 were very edge, while the Amiga version were either stripped down in comparison, an exact copy of the C64 version (or vice-versa dependent upon history and perspective,) and in both cases did little to really showcase the power of the Amiga.
Test Drive II I feel is a good example. The Amiga version adds very little against the C64 version, except for sampled speech; even the music composition is different. Arkanoid II is another, where the C64 version had awesome music which played very well on a stereo system at full blast.
That's not to say that all games are like that. SOTB, for instance, is remarkable on the Amiga and the C64 conversion does a LOT to try to live up to its big younger brother.
And I completely forgot to dig up the Dreamcast information I promised. I spent today handling two emergencies and making dat moonay so the house remains mine for another month :-D
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I believe the CD32 Lotus Trilogy was nothing more than disk images of the original OCS games with a custom loader.
Certainly, in their day, the Lotus games were excellent (as was Jaguar XJ220, incidentally), however the CD32 release was most disappointing. An AGA version, coded to take advantage (!) of the 68020, additional chipmem and possibly even the extra Akiko chip, could have seriously impressive.
Cheers,
James
x
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LoadWB: Glad to hear you're enjoying your CD32. Very under-rated, IMHO. There are quite a few very nice games.
Might I recommend:
Defender or the Crown II
Simon the Sorceror (the 'talkie' version)
James Pond II: Robocod
I have many other game consoles to play (yep, 2 Dreamcast's here too) but I play my CD32 at least once per week.
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I think Sega should take some of the blame themself... Here in Norway the Sega was not marketted at all, and i bet the case was the same in other european countries as well. You could not walk into any game store and buy a dreamcast like you do with a playsation, nintendo or similar.
Same thing with saturn.. it was nowhere to be found :-(
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Matt_H wrote:
Makes me also think of the ill-fated Dreamcast, or XBox Beta, I should say. Man, Sega got screwed.
That's what happens when you partner with Microsoft.
Is that why the Commodore 128 flopped?
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foleyjo wrote:
Is that why the Commodore 128 flopped?
Are you trolling? The comparison is invalid. The C128 didn't make it as a hit for a number of reasons which seemed pretty well outlined in "On The Edge," so I won't regurgitate them here. None of these issues applied to the fall of the Dreamcast.
The only similarity is that both now fall into a niche cult following as being very advanced and flexible machines for their respective eras.
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Not trolling at all.
if you boot up a C128 you can see it has Microsoft written in big letters along the top ("3rd line down (c) 1977 microsoft corp.")
backing up the statement about partnering with Microsoft