Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 04:15:45 PM

Title: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 04:15:45 PM
Well, I struck a good deal and I want to share it with you all.

The price pr. cpu will be $60 - $75 - $100. This depends on things like shipping, import tax, and the cost of actually getting the money there.. I can also get the 75Mhz crystals, but i need to know which crystals, ( 14 or 8-pin ) I get 7 of these babies at the beginning of next month, if the interest is high, i'll have him send me more.


-Mike
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: zyphoid on August 26, 2007, 04:33:40 PM
sounds intriguing, i've got a bliz1260'050. don't know how it would work though.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: wurzel on August 26, 2007, 04:36:13 PM
Hi,

I'm interested but ignorant :(

I have a Blizzard 030. Can I just change the 030 for the 060 and get a faster Amiga?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: Framiga on August 26, 2007, 04:36:20 PM
AFAIK the 75 Mhz is without FPU unit.

Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: Framiga on August 26, 2007, 04:38:29 PM
no wurzel, you can't :-(

Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: arnljot on August 26, 2007, 04:40:13 PM
But can you just pop one of these puppies in a csppc060 and have 75mhz operations, and what impact will the loss of fpu have? (which applications)
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: A1260 on August 26, 2007, 04:54:26 PM
these are just totally useless if your not going to build a new card for the amiga, that is....
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 04:56:22 PM
Quote

Framiga wrote:
AFAIK the 75 Mhz is without FPU unit.



I have one here that does _NOT_ say 68060ec75 ... nor LC. I got them to send me one to check
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 04:58:03 PM
Quote

wurzel wrote:
Hi,

I'm interested but ignorant :(

I have a Blizzard 030. Can I just change the 030 for the 060 and get a faster Amiga?

Thanks!


You'd need at least an 040 accelerator, they can be modified to use 060's. Need more voltage and the crystals.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: Piru on August 26, 2007, 05:01:50 PM
Quote
You'd need at least an 040 accelerator, they can be modified to use 060's.

Not all of them.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 05:02:06 PM
Quote

zyphoid wrote:
sounds intriguing, i've got a bliz1260'050. don't know how it would work though.

It probably will, its the equiv of putting a faster cpu in a motherboard that will support it... Though you have to change the crystals. Thats using the 8 pin btw.

I've heard horror stories about the scsi module getting overclocked and scewing up on some cyberstorms tho.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 05:04:45 PM
Quote

arnljot wrote:
But can you just pop one of these puppies in a csppc060 and have 75mhz operations, and what impact will the loss of fpu have? (which applications)

Thats what im doing, though my a4k motherboard and cppc is at reparis, and he has it working with a 68060ec75 i hear. I didn't know the full 060 75mhz existed until recently.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 05:07:59 PM
On the Mk-II series I believe, they screw/corrupt the scsi. But of your not using a scsi it will work.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 05:17:14 PM
Anyway,
if you want one.
PM me.

Name, email, quantity, with or without crystal.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: Rob on August 26, 2007, 05:27:54 PM
Freescale do not list full 68060 75Mhz on their site, the fastest listed is 60Mhz which I have on my Blizzard.

If you install the CPU on your card you can you the CPU command or Sysinfo to check if everything is present and correct.

My Blizzard currently is clocked at 66Mhz.  I clocked it up to 80Mhz, but it would hang as soon as you switched the FPU on (i.e. running setpatch).  Using the CLI, I was able to run a few demos that didn't require setpatch to be enabled and I was very impressed with the speed.

There are FPU versions of quite a few applications out there and a few that require one to run, I think Quake does.

If these turn out to be full 68060 75Mhz parts and they can run stable at 80Mhz I might be tempted to part with $60 for one.

Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: Rob on August 26, 2007, 05:32:20 PM
Quote
On the Mk-II series I believe, they screw/corrupt the scsi. But of your not using a scsi it will work.


It can be a bit of lottery with over clocked Blizzard 1260 and SCSI modules, some work at higher speed and others don't.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: alexh on August 26, 2007, 05:47:44 PM
Freescale (formally motorola) dont make and have never made FULL 060's at 75MHz

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MC68060&tab=Buy_Parametric_Tab&fromSearch=false

Where are the photographs of such chips? (In focus so I can read the numbers on the chip).

The MC68060RC50 with mask E41J has been known to overclock to 100MHz (No Amiga Accelerator can run that fast).

The very last version of CSPPC as been known to run at 75MHz with jumper changes and firmware settings and an extra crystal.

Apollo 1260 is also known to run at 75MHz with these chips, but the memory controller design means that it doesnt run much faster in real terms.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 06:12:48 PM
http://www.dcn.ne.jp/~plastic/etc/MC68060RC75.jpg I'll take some pictures of mine later... my mobile camera is bust (wrong camera driver revision 1.1 should be 1.2... after flashing it) + the numbers would never be readable..
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 06:14:46 PM

Quote


If you install the CPU on your card you can you the CPU command or Sysinfo to check if everything is present and correct.



I will when i get the a4000 and cppc back.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: zyphoid on August 26, 2007, 06:29:25 PM
who has schematic, pics/diagrams directions of such a task. i'm sure us novices don't want to screw up or boards,   i mean with swapping chips, and installing crystals and all.. it's tempting to put out a few bucks to increase amiga performance
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: zyphoid on August 26, 2007, 06:32:50 PM
Quote

Rob wrote:
Freescale do not list full 68060 75Mhz on their site, the fastest listed is 60Mhz which I have on my Blizzard.

If you install the CPU on your card you can you the CPU command or Sysinfo to check if everything is present and correct.

My Blizzard currently is clocked at 66Mhz.  I clocked it up to 80Mhz, but it would hang as soon as you switched the FPU on (i.e. running setpatch).  Using the CLI, I was able to run a few demos that didn't require setpatch to be enabled and I was very impressed with the speed.

If these turn out to be full 68060 75Mhz parts and they can run stable at 80Mhz I might be tempted to part with $60 for one.



just how do you clock up anyway?
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 06:41:29 PM
its not a clock up... i wouldnt recommend doing that anyway.. But replacing the crystals, with say, 80 or 100 mhz ones, more voltage probably, and keep the temp down, big heatsink with a good fan on for instance.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: Doobrey on August 26, 2007, 06:42:40 PM
Quote

mike- wrote:
http://www.dcn.ne.jp/~plastic/etc/MC68060RC75.jpg I'll take some pictures of mine later... my mobile camera is bust (wrong camera driver revision 1.1 should be 1.2... after flashing it) + the numbers would never be readable..


Where's this piccy from?
Something doesn't seem right about the mask number (the only matches I can find for '00E31F' come up as 68040's), where's AlexH when you need him?
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 07:02:56 PM
just searched on google images. I have on sitting on the table...  They exist...
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: murple on August 26, 2007, 07:05:35 PM
I think you've got a bright future in importing merchandise from parallel universes. Can you get me an Amiga 6000?

I dont know what you have, but the manufacturer site says that full 060/75's do not exist.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: Doobrey on August 26, 2007, 07:19:04 PM
Quote

mike- wrote:
just searched on google images. I have on sitting on the table...  They exist...


But just cos it says 'MC68060RC75' on the top doesn't mean that's what's in the silicon  :-(
Only last year someone got ripped off buying a batch of relabelled '060s(link (http://eab.abime.net/archive/index.php/t-27664.html))

Rough translation from the CT blog..
"Apparently there are 060s with falsified inscriptions. They have a white print  instead of engraved MC68060RC50. You can also recognize it by the number on the left side (e.g. S23328-002 instead of -004). "
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 07:26:34 PM
I got some pictures. but they are taken with a cell phone... so i wont even bother loading them up.. i couldnt make out the model no. myself even...

This one here says: MC68060RC75 01G65V MALAYSIA
THIS IS IN REALITY A XC68060RC50A!

I'll hunt for a proper camera.. I've got the friggin flue so not much is happening. Not even for http://amigaweb.net
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 07:28:46 PM
Quote

Doobrey wrote:
Quote

mike- wrote:
just searched on google images. I have on sitting on the table...  They exist...


But just cos it says 'MC68060RC75' on the top doesn't mean that's what's in the silicon  :-(
Only last year someone got ripped off buying a batch of relabelled '060s(link (http://eab.abime.net/archive/index.php/t-27664.html))

Rough translation from the CT blog..
"Apparently there are 060s with falsified inscriptions. They have a white print  instead of engraved MC68060RC50. You can also recognize it by the number on the left side (e.g. S23328-002 instead of -004). "


Hmm. i'll wait until i get the cppc back and test with that  then
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 07:30:48 PM
ah the left hand side. barley visible is 523326 002. but t hats in gold or what ever
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: Zac67 on August 26, 2007, 07:33:27 PM
Just google a bit - all 68060 01G65V I could find are (RC)50 MHz...
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: odin on August 26, 2007, 07:34:39 PM
Some guy registers with a.org on the 22nd and 4 days later his very first post is an offer for unicorn-like chips.

Ofcourse it could be true but still: buyer be aware, very aware.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 07:34:48 PM

Oh my... http://eab.abime.net/archive/index.php/t-27664.html
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/restqp/k-060.jpg

That one doesnt even say mc68060....

Well, its not any of those i have...I'll borrow a camera from a friend..
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: Doobrey on August 26, 2007, 07:38:57 PM
Quote

Zac67 wrote:
Just google a bit - all 68060 01G65V I could find are (RC)50 MHz...


And the only matches for 68060RC75 come from Chinese chip suppliers on ebay..cough..FAKE...cough.. :-(
Hate to say it mike, but I think you've been conned.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 07:41:35 PM
Well, when i get my a4000 and cppc back i'll know..
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 07:46:55 PM
Quote

odin wrote:
Some guy registers with a.org on the 22nd and 4 days later his very first post is an offer for unicorn-like chips.

Ofcourse it could be true bit still: buyer be aware, very aware.


I havent registered here before because i havent had to.. It's a few months since i came a cross this deal, but i dont have cash to pay the man until the 1.th next month, and i didnt then intend to sell 7 of em, just one for myself. This some guy is mike who writes for http://amigaweb.net and amigaugide magazine mike^^ on #amiga efnet





Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 08:01:22 PM
Hmmm, indeed the google search turns up the 68060rc50a XC even. I bought one of those off ebay actually, planned to see if i can connect it to a minimig. Bought the two at about the same time, in case the 68060rc75's were ec or lc i wanted a backup..

I'll give word when i've tested them in the cppc
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: alexh on August 26, 2007, 09:37:30 PM
At this point in time, with the information I have (the photo and the details given) it is my opinion the chips you have bought are fake. Why?

The photo is fake.

Motorola never made any MC68060RCxx chips with the mask number E31F. As has already been said the E31F mask was a very early XC68040RCxx mask number. (http://www.freescale.com/files/shared/doc/pcn/PCNR00274.html?fpsp=1)

The chip labeled MC68060RC75 01G65V is fake.

G65V is a REAL 060 mask number (http://www.freescale.com/files/shared/doc/pcn/PCN2401.html?fpsp=1) HOWEVER no 68060's were manufactured with the MC notation and the G65V mask number. MC status was only awarded later. Also I am almost sure no XC68060RC75 chips were made either.

While OK the XC68060RCxx (G65V) is no competition to its successor the MC68060RCxx E41J version released 2 years later. (http://www.freescale.com/files/shared/doc/pcn/945048375992collateral.html?fpsp=1) The G65V variants produce much more heat and do not like higher clock rates as they are a larger geometry, less efficient etc.

Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: Rob on August 26, 2007, 10:22:05 PM
I have an XC68EC060RC60 installed in my Blizzard card it has both an FPU and MMU, can anyone tell me why the is an EC in the part number.

I don't have the mask version as I don't have the board to hand and had to hunt the part number down in my account history.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: alexh on August 26, 2007, 10:30:50 PM
EC parts were not (until later) a separate mask.

When chips are made a certain number of them are faulty.

To find the faulty chips they all go on a tester which runs some test vectors (a bit like programs). Not only can they discover faults, but they can tell where in the chip the fault is.

If a fault is discovered but it is say limited to the MMU, or FPU and the rest of the CPU is fine, rather than being binned it is separated and branded EC or LC and sold to a different market (Washing machines etc). This can seriously increase a semiconductor's yeild (the percentage of viable chips) and thus profits.

Often demand for EC or LC parts would outstrip the number of faulty parts being found and in that situation Motorola would sell fully working ones as EC instead.

It is a lottery as to whether an EC part will have a working MMU.

Later to save money I *think* they made specific LC and EC parts which physically didnt have an MMU or FPU and had a smaller die.

Even then if stocks of full 68060's were running too high, rather than make some more EC/LC chips, they would sell rebranded full ones if it saved money.

I hope that explains why your EC part has an MMU.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: keropi on August 26, 2007, 10:44:07 PM
I had an ec060/60mhz on my bppc too... there was a time where those 060's where not tested completelly and were sold as EC units... mine was working 1000% with mmu/fpu
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: alexh on August 26, 2007, 10:50:48 PM
Yeah, that was the time when demand for EC/LC parts outstripped the supply of faulty chips.

Time on the tester is a key part of making money in the semiconductor industry. If you can shorten the time a chip spends on the tester you can sell more chips and increase revenue.

By removing the MMU/FPU test vectors for chips Motorola KNOW are going to be branded as EC or LC then they improve revenue and profits.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 26, 2007, 11:17:33 PM
Well at this point I've only thankfully bought one. And im gonna send that to the repair wiz to have it tested.

Again that image there is from googling MC68060RC75 and selecting images.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: alexh on August 26, 2007, 11:55:59 PM
This website (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://xps.jp/project/MC68060RC75/mc68060rc75.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://xps.jp/project/MC68060RC75/mc68060rc75.html%26num%3D100%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG) appears to be the source of all the material about the imaginary MC68060RC75.

As you can see (even with the bad google translation) that even they admit it is FAKE and they were conned by some rogue trader.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 27, 2007, 12:01:56 AM
its probably a xc68068rc50 yea  :madashell:
It has the exact same markings a XC68060rc50 i bought from ic-china ( the cpu store ) on ebay....
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 27, 2007, 01:37:15 AM
Ok, i have some pictures, taken with a cell phone, i dont know if/how i can manage to snap any better then this, but anyway http://localgost.homelinux.net:8080/68060/ (http://localgost.homelinux.net:8080/68060/) 08 and 10 are the best
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: zyphoid on August 27, 2007, 02:04:13 AM
mike fix the link!
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 27, 2007, 02:05:50 AM
i actually just noticed it. Works now right?

edit: DOH! had used a comma there too...  8-)
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: jj on August 27, 2007, 02:06:53 AM
nope
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 27, 2007, 02:20:33 AM
now?

(ok it works now  :idea:
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: murple on August 27, 2007, 02:23:27 AM
Works for me.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: alexh on August 27, 2007, 10:02:25 AM
If you have a scanner, that could take good snaps.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: shoggoth on August 27, 2007, 11:43:30 AM
What you guys *really* want is the Rev.6 060, which is labelled 50Mhz, but can run stable up to 100Mhz.

-- Peter
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: therail on August 27, 2007, 01:29:35 PM
Quote

shoggoth wrote:
What you guys *really* want is the Rev.6 060, which is labelled 50Mhz, but can run stable up to 100Mhz.

-- Peter


the one with the mask E41J?
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: alexh on August 27, 2007, 02:01:12 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 27, 2007, 03:01:12 PM
Quote

alexh wrote:
If you have a scanner, that could take good snaps.


Not a bad idea, though my scanner is from the 1950's and the psu is gone. I'll go bug my mate about it =)
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: shoggoth on August 27, 2007, 04:28:02 PM
Quote

therail wrote:
the one with the mask E41J?


71E41J.

Lookie: http://www.czuba-tech.com/CT60/english/fpu.htm
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: amigadave on August 27, 2007, 04:37:42 PM
Probably a dumb question and maybe already asked and answered before.

If the correct 060 can be found and installed on my CSPPC with the proper crystal to run it at 100mHz, will that cause any other problems with the function of the CSPPC RAM access or SCSI controller?
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: shoggoth on August 27, 2007, 05:16:39 PM
Quote

amigadave wrote:
Probably a dumb question and maybe already asked and answered before.

If the correct 060 can be found and installed on my CSPPC with the proper crystal to run it at 100mHz, will that cause any other problems with the function of the CSPPC RAM access or SCSI controller?


Probably. The rest of the system may not run well at that speed.

btw, if someone sells *full* 75Mhz 060s, I'd be very suspicious. IIRC Rodolphe Czuba, author of the CT60 accellerator for the Atari falcon, got ripped off with fake 060s (they were re-labelled as full versions, when in fact they were ECs).

-- Peter
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: mike- on August 27, 2007, 06:38:33 PM
Rest assured I'll find out.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention anyway. I could have ended up with a load of fake 060 75's. or what ever mhz they are.. Or worse, sold em to you and completely destroyed my rep. I've contacted freescale  about the authenticity of these too, I hope to hear back from then soon. I didn't get around to sending the one i have off today tho.. I wasn't awake in time to get to the post office...  :-P
Title: Re: Full 68060's 75Mhz for sale
Post by: delshay on October 07, 2008, 05:16:39 AM
canceled post already explained.