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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Fixer on August 15, 2007, 08:05:26 AM
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Hello.
I am looking for the opinions/technical knowledge of those longterm Amiga users or anyone who has experience with dedicated Sound Cards.
I've never had any experience with them myself in the time I've been using classic Amigas.
I also have no idea about the cost/feasibility, quality or usefulness/purpose of such an expansion.
So what I would like to know is the following:
What would be the best Zorro sound card to get and why?
What would be the best PCI sound card to get and why?
Is there any other way of getting audio expansion on Amiga, and is it any good/useful?
What are the benefits/purpose/function of getting dedicated Sound Cards on the classic Amiga computers?
I'm not sure if there is anything else I would like to know about them yet, but more questions may come later in the thread.
Any input is appreciated.
Thanks!
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16bit sound
hardware mp3 decoder with Delfina
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unless you wanna use a program/game that can output to AHI (so it will use the soundcard) there is no reason to get an amiga soundcard... and the above progs are wb ones mostly...
as for mp3, u are better with an mp3@64 ...
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keropi wrote:
unless you wanna use a program/game that can output to AHI (so it will use the soundcard) there is no reason to get an amiga soundcard... and the above progs are wb ones mostly...
as for mp3, u are better with an mp3@64 ...
Or find all necessary parts and build a MAS Player, works very well to decompress MP3, even on a plain A500!
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I'm the proud owner of a SunRize (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=1292)! It's supposedly the best/most expensive soundcard out there. Probably not much use nowadays though when you can just get a mediator and stuff in a soundblaster.
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The entire history of amiga there were two types of people:
1.Who said that the bulit in amiga sound hw is good for anything, so not worth to disturb.
2. People who think that paula is a good hw but its got many limitations so after some time it must be replaced.
When i first realized in the early '90 that the new amiga (1200) will not be shipped with advanced paula (8ch,16bit etc) as commodore planned, i dissapointed very much.
As time moved on, and ahi appeared, most of the new games and apps use the advantage of ahi. so you can change your sound hw.
So the options:
Delfina : unique amiga hw, with mp3 decoder. 16bit. AHI support. good quality. You need clockport. Or clockport adapter.
Sound Blaster128, Audigy. Sb128 can be used with pci board (mediator etc) 16bit, ahi support, good quality.
Audigy: no full drivers, if can be used better quality than sb128.
terratec: similar to sb128 but a little bit better in noise-signal ratio.
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For ZII most defiently the SunRize Industies AD516 8 channel 16 track stereo audio card. The Studio 16 software is exellent. It will also STMPE time lock with a Personal Animation Recorder for LightWave animation audio playback.
To bad it wasn't a zIII card and sport an onboard scsi controller to go along with the audio drive formating for DDR.
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Thanks for the lowdown, everyone.
I didn't realise that the Amiga had such good AHI support range for its software.
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I'd really want an AD516 but they are usually still fairly expensive if they ever show up :(
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You guys are forgetting the Repulse ;)
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aggro_mix wrote:
I'd really want an AD516 but they are usually still fairly expensive if they ever show up :(
I missed out on a batch of audio/video cards (no software or manuals) that would have put the two ad516s at about $85 each. Wish I would have spent the wad on that auction...
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It depends a lot for what you need the audio.
For myself (as non musician or audio editing person) the two main reasons for having sound card in classic Amiga are:
1. playing mp3 files without cpu-load with full quality
2. having a mixer for Paula, CD-ROM, TV-card and AHI-audio.
I have both PCI and Zorro bus in my Amiga and sound card is Delfina Lite. Soundblaster wouldn't do the 1. thing, so that's why I prefer Zorro cards. Delfina Lite was cheap when I got it... if the money wouldn't have been the issue, then I'd got Delfina Plus instead :)
Paula is bit faster for games etc, so I use it for those. Only music needs the better quality IMHO.
Sampling is also easy and good quality with sound cards, but never actually needed it :)
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pVC wrote:
It depends a lot for what you need the audio.
For myself (as non musician or audio editing person) the two main reasons for having sound card in classic Amiga are:
1. playing mp3 files without cpu-load with full quality
2. having a mixer for Paula, CD-ROM, TV-card and AHI-audio.
I have both PCI and Zorro bus in my Amiga and sound card is Delfina Lite. Soundblaster wouldn't do the 1. thing, so that's why I prefer Zorro cards. Delfina Lite was cheap when I got it... if the money wouldn't have been the issue, then I'd got Delfina Plus instead :)
Paula is bit faster for games etc, so I use it for those. Only music needs the better quality IMHO.
Sampling is also easy and good quality with sound cards, but never actually needed it :)
if you have a picasso iv in your amiga then you can do 1 and 2 with the mp3@64! :D
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Uhm.. where can I find good information of this mp3@64 in Amiga? :) And it really have at least 3 external inputs for mixing sources? And software for playing mp3 files?
And BTW. I only have CV64/3D and Voodoo3 :)
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Individual Computers (http://ami.ga/), perhaps?
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Hmm.. checked it even before asking, but still can't see product like that on those pages...
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pVC wrote:
Hmm.. checked it even before asking, but still can't see product like that on those pages...
Try Amigakit - they advertise them on their site:
www.amigakit.co.uk
I'm curious as to how this fits on an Amiga. Does it require a USB port? It's supposed to fit on an MMC expansion card for the Commodore 64.
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it uses clockport so fits in amiga 1200/600. i have a kickflash thing in my a4000 which has a clockport on it so i use that.
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The best audio card I ever used is by far the Delfina Lite.
Hardware mp3 decoding and paula audio mixing really sounds like paradise :-P
I bought it in december 2000 and still enjoy it very much :)
It's a pity that so few applications and games take adavantage from the DSP chip :-(
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I agree about the Delfina Lite. It's a pain so set up correctly but once you have it's excellent!
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Flashlab wrote:
I agree about the Delfina Lite. It's a pain so set up correctly but once you have it's excellent!
why do you say that it's a pain to setup?
I had no problem on my amiga 4000 :)
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I needed the tweaked delfina.library for it function correctly. Also a different init tool for my s-s (and an optional overclock util); all of these programs were not in the original install. If you don't know this then you have some problems.
You can find topics on this board about the Delfina and the dreaded fake requestor (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1998).
Had those problems myself!
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I had none of these problems, maybe because I use the delfinampeg.device with Amplifier (amigaOS 3.9) and it's perfect.
When i bought the delfina lite thjere was no overclocking utility so to boost performance I had to change the 4mhz oscillagtor with a 6 mhx one and it works better than great :)
the only problem is tha somtimes, after several hour of playing, Amplifier hang ups the whole system :-(
Still don't understand why, maybe it's because the overclock, I'm looking for a 5mhz quartz in order to downclock it :)
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With that overclocking utility you don't need to change any oscillator and you can choose any frequency you want.
I use the delfinampeg.device too but you could also try the patched lib; maybe that solves your freezes?
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uhm whew do I can find the patchet library? and what does it patch?
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I have two delfina lite cards. I can't get either one to work in my A4000 off the clockport on my kickflash. They both work on my stock A1200 though, even with the original library! I know the kickflash is ok because my Subway works on it. I'm perplexed by the situation, tbth.
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@stopthegop
You have probably Delfina Flipper cards not Lites; the Delfina Lite is a Zorro card.
@Reflex
The overclock util is DelfTweak. Look for it on Aminet.
I use DelfInit instead of the initialisation tool that comes with the card. Also on Aminet.
The patched lib is here (http://jpv.wmhost.com/delflib_patch_2.lzx).
I use the patch 2 version.
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You're right.. deflina flippers. I always get them confused. :/
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@Reflex
The overclock util is DelfTweak. Look for it on Aminet.
I use DelfInit instead of the initialisation tool that comes with the card. Also on Aminet.
I use the patch 2 version.
ah OK but if I have an hardware overclock maybe I don't need none of these, or maybe yes?
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Yeah, but you said you wanted to try to clock it lower; instead of a oscillator you can use this program to downclock it?
It would be best to use the original oscillator again and overclock the card using Delftweak according to this source (http://utilitybase.com/article/show/2007/04/05/222/Delfina).
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that source seems to say that replacing the original 4 mhz oscillator with a 6 mhz is still safe enough..
So I think I'll let him stay there, but maybe I'll play around with all these programs and patches you kindly suggested to me. 8-)
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Okay, the plot is starting to thicken.
It appears these dedicated mp3 decoders are what a lot are using? Almost like a quick-fix way of having music while you're doing other stuff.
I take it this is more novelty because you could just turn your hi-fi on or have a portable mp3 player in your pocket whilst you're using the Amiga?
Or is there another cause these hardware decoders can serve?
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I don't really get what you're trying to say but these cards for the Amiga are soundcards that have a on board DSP. This processor can be used to decode MP3 in hardware. At least that's what the Delfina is. The DSP can also be used for other things (adding soundeffects for example) but I don't use that. The card is used from Workbench so it's not like a seperate MP3 player.
Next to that the Delfina is also a 16bit soundcard that features a mixer to mix audio sources (native Paula Amiga sound, Delfina sound and CD-ROM sound and in my case Picasso TV tuner sound).
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Yeah.. but what I mean is to say is are these mp3 decoders (like mp3AT64) Sound Cards or are they just mp3 players for your Amiga?
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Look on www.amiga-hardware.com. There are all cards for Amiga listed and you can see all info on the mentioned cards.
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MP3@64 is not mentioned on that site, but I think that's a C64 card that has an unofficial Amiga driver for it. That's MP3 decoder only.
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Why hasn't the daddy of all Amiga sound cards been mentioned:
Prelude ZII
"The Prelude is a full length Zorro II 16bit sound card. It contains a 2K FIFO Cache, and a CSSC 4231A sound processor capable of playing ALaw, uLaw, 8bit, 16bit ADCPM encodings. The Prelude also contains a built-in sampler (full duplex) capable of recording at rates from 5.51Khz up to 64Khz. The Prelude has LINE IN, MIC IN (with built in amplifier), 2 x AUX IN, MONO IN, MONO OUT and an internal audio input. Several expansion modules are available for the Prelude including the Arpeggiator, the MPEGit and the Rombler."
(Data frm BBAH (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/))
JaX
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Sounds like a nice card with the MPEGit module!
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But almost impossible to find. The MPEGit module that is.
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Fixer wrote:
Yeah.. but what I mean is to say is are these mp3 decoders (like mp3AT64) Sound Cards or are they just mp3 players for your Amiga?
Separate mp3-decoders like MAS-player or that mp3@64 are just for playing mp3 files. They won't work as soundcards for other areas. They were usefull couple of years ago, but it's bit less use for them nowadays, when almost every electronical device can play mp3 files :) But still you can have bigger collection on music on real computer like Amiga than on those portable devices etc :)
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Reflex wrote:
@Reflex
The overclock util is DelfTweak. Look for it on Aminet.
I use DelfInit instead of the initialisation tool that comes with the card. Also on Aminet.
I use the patch 2 version.
ah OK but if I have an hardware overclock maybe I don't need none of these, or maybe yes?
With HW overclocking you won't need DelfTweak (and shouldn't even try! Remove HW overclock first, if you want to use software overclocking.), but others could be useful.
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Great Freakin thread Finally!
Now I know why some of these MASPlayers, MP3@64, Delfina and other cards hardly sell more hardware as they should.................the sellers fail to advertise properly!
I would have bought these years ago had I known the exact details of what they do.
I had a MASPlayer card, that I thought was darn freakin amazing. Yes playing MP3's on an Amiga without CPU load is important................especially if you want to be a DJ at a party and have 3 audio sources on one machine (CD, MP3, and Paula)If you have an external DJ mixer you can DJ right within your Amiga By Play Mods with HippoPlayer, Sound Samples with DSS8, MP3's with MAS or Delfina, and a CD with a CDROM drive, and mix the beats and music and between them.
You have no idea how cool it is to do that when my PC owning friends struggle to do this easily and properly.
Someone please make more Powerful versions of MAS players or CLockport sound cards, and advertise them like crazy and properly. Most Amigans want this but dont know it. Once they touch and see the product, its a whole different ball game.
Advertising works! and one must continue to advertise even if things seem hopeless and slow.
More MASplayers and Delfinas please! Preferably clockport versions, so that you can Digitise sound from the cards into 8bit samplers like DSS8 right from the same machine. this is Important to VJ's like me, because I use the DSS8+ equalizer display as a Visual genlocked over video.
WHy isnt there more software like this? and yes I got a MindEYE, and some Cycle color software from Aminet (Forgot the name but it sucks anyway)
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Quote:
Separate mp3-decoders like MAS-player or that mp3@64 are just for playing mp3 files. They won't work as soundcards for other areas. They were usefull couple of years ago, but it's bit less use for them nowadays, when almost every electronical device can play mp3 files :) But still you can have bigger collection on music on real computer like Amiga than on those portable devices etc :)
I use my MasPlayer regularly now after waiting many years to find one. Yes, it's great to use the Amiga to play Mp3s from the harddrive and CDs, but, it's just as cool to stream shoutcast radio through Amplifier and MasPlayer, too.
I just wrote this in another thread. It seemed the Masplayer went extinct 5 years ago, but, AmigaKit has them in stock right now. I just ordered a second one today.