Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: MskoDestny on August 07, 2007, 10:11:27 PM
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This is a question aimed at those who use a classic Amiga or a derivative OS(OS4, MorphOS, AROS, etc.) on a regular basis.
What is it that sets AmigaOS (or the Amiga experience as a whole for classic users) that makes it worth using on a regular basis for you? Is it fast boot times? Responsiveness? Simplicity? Something else?
I don't intend to start any big arguments over the merits of Amiga OS with this question. I'm just honestly curious what people perceive as the benefits over alternative solutions.
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Familiarity. A sense that the system is trying to help more than it's trying to keep secrets.
Aside from games, other platforms don't really do anything for me that my Amiga won't. Usually when I'm in font of a platform of a different type, it's because I'm either at work or playing games.
I just never liked the way other systems do things. I could go into specifics, but that's a good enough summation.
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For me it is stress relief from troubleshooting and getting annoyed with Windows XP for 8 hours each day at work. :banana:
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Compulsive addiction.
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Roj wrote:
I just never liked the way other systems do things. I could go into specifics, but that's a good enough summation.
I'd personally be interested in specifics if you're willing to provide them.
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I am forced to stick with Amiga because the best strategy game of the entire universe is only made for AGA Amigas. Total Chaos. My Magic: The Gathering cards cost me $2000.00 but my A1200T 060 with loads of add-ons cost me $1100.00 + I made a $50.00 contrib to the Team Chaos people. So Amiga saved me $850.00 right there. Amiga is awesome and Amiga developers are even awesomer.
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It does exactaly what I tell it to do when I want and everything works or doesn't work due to a specfic reason. None of this "it might work again in a minute" or "restart it and it should work".
I can easily understand the OS due to past experience and theres nothing hiding away.
I feel that the OS still looks modern.
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I agree with the Red Dwarf.
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option! got to have options! hated the Bill Gates monopolizing era. Amiga offered me simplicity, fun, and was friendly. Now its like an old car(classic or muscle) that you work on and it keeps going. I'm always amazed at the new programs which are developed for this system, which work great on a so called dinosaur. This makes me want to be a programmer. some are ctorrent, wookiechat, jabberwocky, poseidon, makecd, mame, amster,pctask,finalwriter, ibrowse, genesis,aweb,st-fax, prayer2,mui....and many more! we just love the system. No fiddling with absolite programs which will require updates or they wont work. problem free updates and drivers,
it just works!
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I agree with the majority of people that have already posted...
It's like the OS isn't trying to "hide" things from the user. And generally if something is working it stays working (unless there's a real reason for it not to, like one of the chips has dies of old age). There's none of this occasionally booting up and finding that my graphics driver has removed itself... (Ah, the joys of XP)
Also.. It's simple, it's quick and it does what it's supposed to well... (Manage system resources and give easy user interaction) unlike Vista (Which uses all your system resources and gives klunky user interaction)
And of course.. I like it :D
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Fellow Amigans:
I love my amiga because I can use amospro and is easy to use and I can make amiga games. Amospro is very powerful and easy to code on. My classic amiga is all I need for that.
I do have winUAE/pc and can use it for many things...but classic amiga is good enough for my programming needs.
rednova
www.feryogi.com
-mobilis in mobile-
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Best bang for the byte (not the buck): other than embedded systems (including some phones), no other common "system" does more in less space (and time)!
OK, mostly joking, as that's not the sole reason, however valid it may be. I agree with many of the reasons others (murple: agreed) have given. A few more for me (in no order):
* fantastic games (gameplay, graphics, music, MOOD)
* best demos
* !best! freagging music "library" ever (games & demos)
* out of huge respect for the phenomenal technological leaps that made the computer (hardware & OS) and from amazing people, such as Miner, Haynie, Sassenrath, etc. I will run Amigas as long as I can out of my respect for these people and their creation. The world ought to know, and keeping them alive and working is one way.
* out of hope, the hope that one day the spirit that embodied the creation of the Amiga and its creators, will rise up again (through perhaps new, youthful geniuses) and change the technical/computing world from the uncreative, bloated, short-sighted, contriving and manipulative Microsoft-enslaved cestpool that it is.
Honestly guys, I've *not* had as much fun with a modern computer since those early Amiga days. One exception to this: Macbook from Apple. Got one of those and started playing around with Photobooth (for those that don't know, it's a very *simple* program that takes photos, but words can't describe how much better than any other such software it is - it's all int he details folks...) and my girl. We were laughing and cracking up for an hour!!! Add to that the excitement of opening the "perfect" box, the smell of the plastic, the finesse of everything inside and included. (The only things really missing were the programming manuals with the chip registers, memory map, etc, hahahaha!) Anyawys, I almost cried when the fun feeling of those old days came back out from the dark crevices of my mind!
Computing should be *fun* and most of the world (bar Apple, and that's why they're getting my buck) has forgotten that!
Amiga Forever!!!
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I use my Amiga because I have fond memories of Commodore machines and vintage games. I am a software developer who uses powerful Linux/Unix systems at work and at home for most "real" stuff, and I appreciate the simplicity (and yet amazing power) of the old machines. I also enjoy the challenge of keeping aging hardware functional, so, its probably the same attitude that makes people maintain antique cars. I also use my Commodore 128 heavily for the same reasons. I don't use these things for my serious computing because for things like internet use, word processing, watching videos, playing music, and sending email, there are Linux applications that are way better. I've used the Amiga to do those things, just because its amazing that such old hardware CAN do them... but for every day use, the Amiga has fallen too far due to Commodore and Escom's stupidity. I know some people do use Amigas for all their stuff, but I suspect that has more to do with a philosophical reason than any technical advantage. I think people who just dont like Microsoft and Apple would be better served by Linux, but thats my opinion. And for some people who dont NEED all the latest technologies, Amigas may be enough to fill their needs. I think they're probably a small minority though.
Modern games on computers and consoles don't do much for me. There may be some good ones, but I gave up looking because most seem to focus on whizbang graphics flash rather than concept and fun. I always loved the old games on C64 and Amiga, where even all text games like Zork were enthralling.
And of course, demos. Amigas have the best demos, and while the C64 demos are kind of crude in comparison, they pretty much started the whole idea of demos.
Two exceptions to my statement that I dont use vintage machines for serious stuff, though so far I haven't done much with either... I'd like to explore using Genlock stuff to do some video editting. I'd also like to explore music making on the C64 and Amiga. This applies to the C64 more because the SID chip has a very distinct cool sound.
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I like the smell that comes out of the power adapter of amigas.
I like the familiarity.
I like to be the special person that is having the better experience.
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I have had an amiga since 1986, it just wouldn't feel right without one. :-) Its also really fun. :-D
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murple wrote:
Two exceptions to my statement that I dont use vintage machines for serious stuff, though so far I haven't done much with either... I'd like to explore using Genlock stuff to do some video editting. I'd also like to explore music making on the C64 and Amiga. This applies to the C64 more because the SID chip has a very distinct cool sound.
The 64 is very cool to play with the sounds. Stereo sids are the greatest.
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Why do I stick with the Amiga?.... Lots of reasons.. The
fact that there are freeware apps on the Amiga that work
better than some commercial apps. on the PC... A big part of
it is the sense of community with Amiga users...
Not long ago, A4000_Mad from here helped me much fixing up
my DirOpus config. and has E-Mailed me regularly ever since...
Maybe it's the fact that my A1200 Tower is my favorite computer,
so I have always spent more money on it :) (It has the 20"
Stereo monitor, $500.00 (when new) Epson Stylus Photo printer,
scanner, digitizer (audio and video) etc.....
Maybe it's just because, when I boot up my miggy, I don't blurt
out, "OK, NOW what's wrong...."
Compare that to my dad's Win98SE machine, that will 'sometimes'
connect to the Internet, 'sometimes' his image processing programs
work.... My WinXP machine connects fine....if you wait long enough..
In the time it takes me to get connected on my PC, I have
booted up my Amiga, gone online, read my E-Mail, and shut it
off....
And what idiot at Micro$oft thought of putting 'shut down' under
the 'start' menu??? My amiga has a shut down button too, it's called
the power switch.....
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Because it's not Linux and certainly because it's not Windbloat. My primary OS is Linux with XP hanging around mostly for my game (DAoC). I like having a clean and snappy OS to escape from X11 and XP.
The one thing I do feel wealthy in this, is the community. I feel apart of it, I know even as a none coding or none artistic individual, I can make a slight difference. The same would be pretty hard to be said with a straight facee in regards to *nix or Windows developer enviroment.
Dammy
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I stopped sticking to my Amiga ages ago. But I keep coming back to it because of what it once was... I just miss it. :-)
Ed.
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I guess it's like asking an old couple why they still are married. Sure they probably see other younger, more attractive candidates here and there, but once you've found your true love, you don't let it go.
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I would have to agree with the others that said the Amiga community is what keeps the amiga the most interesting.
After that, I would say that it is the fact that the amiga was designed by a few guys with a great idea. And there are lots of examples of hardware add-ons created by small teams. In the modern computer world that just doesn't happen anymore. One guy really can't make that big a splash. Just look at the credits for a video game and you see that it took a hundred people to make it. These days, one guy is insignificant. That is different in the amiga community. It is full of guys (and ladies) that made some big contribution without having a million dollar budget or huge design teams.
Lastly, I think that as a programmer it is entirely possible to learn every detail about the amiga (not that I am in that position). Try mastering Mac OS X or Windows XP. How many other machines give you a complete desctription of the hardware registers and all the libraries?
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@skurk
Hehe, nice one. :-)
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Have you tried Windows? (any flavour) ;-)
TrevorDick
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I don't care about teaching my old amiga new tricks. It tried to do the PCI/USB/PPC/RTG/AHI thing, but it just isn't my cup of tea.
Sure it worked for a while, but I no longer have the need to compete with silly PC users on what machine is the best.
Besides, it makes me sad that all the new stuff becomes crippled due to the IP troubles and the resulting lack of support.
But instead of letting the amiga lose it's appeal, I reverted to the classic amiga aproach; Simple stable machines that do exactly what it says on the tin! In my case, real-time video control. And for that matter, there's still no substitute for D-paint and a Genlock!
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I don't intend to start any big arguments over the merits of Amiga OS with this question. I'm just honestly curious what people perceive as the benefits over alternative solutions.
The Amiga is, by far, the best 'personal' computer ever created. Windows, Macintosh, and Linux are the "alternatives". Sometimes, in order to view a poorly written, poorly designed, non-standard website, I need to use an alternative computer.
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In the beginning I started with an Amiga A600 that for me was it.
Then onto a 1200, I got myself a 486. I noticed a big difference between the two computers.
The Amiga did not throw wobblies or crash at the slightest thing.
With the Amiga you can actually get into it, for example the directories, C,L,S,Libs,Devs. nice and easy but a PC not a chance there is all sorts of stuff like system,system32, and all the Registery directories and all sorts of other before it will work.
On the Amiga I found AmosPro and that was and still is great to work with. For some reason I just find the Amiga far better to get on with.
A PC seems to be more hostile.
It just amazes me that when the Amiga first ever came out and I saw the first ever demo on a BBC program a A500 it was, it was years ahead of any PC of its day no matter what.
I use Amikit on my Athlon but for me you cant beat the real thing.
I am more than happy that I stuck with the Amiga over all this time. You ask any Amiga user the amount of fun they had or still are having with there Amiga. I use a PC, I have a good time with my Amiga.
Its just a great pity that the company of the day was as bad as there was, if they was not then the Amiga would be another story.
To be fair its not as fast as a modern day PC, but lets face it if the Amiga had the exact same power as a modern day PC I would dump the PC.
Its just sad how it ended up for the Amiga, a lot of fancy talk but nothing hard to back it all up. I mean nothing really serious to keep it going in the modern market.
I have spent a lot of money on my Amiga, why you may ask? When I could have put all that money on a really fast powerful PC? Because I find the Amiga worth it.
Simple as......
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Because its so fun and easy to use:-)
And like many others have said you have control not the computer.
I use my classic Amiga daily, running protracker and listening to olds mods:-) watching old demos:-)
playing old games:-) reading my mail etc.....
and midi sequencing with Radium:-)
It just isn't the same trough UAE:-(
I just cant get enough of true Amiga's
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I like my amigas because they are unique and interesting to work with. I have had one since the 1000 days... BUT I am getting tired of paing big money to fix increasing problems with these old systems. Prices are out out control and functionality is pretty weak, hate to say but thinking of ditching mine to get some free space and maybe some cash I can use on new toys...
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@MskoDestiny
I know this may sound ingnorant to say, but As StopTheGop said........The Amiga is the best computer ever made. I know its best if I gave more details why so I will try saying the reasons I use it.
First I agreee with what everyone here said because it is true in all our experiences. I can get DEEP DEEP DEEP into my Amigas OS and manipulate it at will...........it is excrutiatingly fun to know how powerful you are with this machine.
Just think of why Boys play video games and girls don't............knw what ts really about? Boys like it because they can control something exactly as they want to move it and control it.........they can make the character shoot, Jump, Roll, climb, with no slowdown and supersmooth scrolling..........and finding out combo moves and executing them in Street Figher types. being able to blow up your enemy by pressing the fire button and he's a gonner! its alot to do with Power. No one wants a Robot that disobeys him or crashes in the middle of his task............nor does anyone want a Robot that tells his master what do do, or you need a Masters degree to operate...or at leat to fix or trouble shoot.
The Amiga and Workbench OS (AmigaOS) offer the user super control and knowledge. I feel like I can create an Arexx script and can program, even though I dont know........but its so close and reachable that I feel I can do it. And besides Programs like SCALA let you do almost anything........I think SCALA is one of the programs that define the Amiga........I dont know if your aware but SCALA inc helped create part of the Amiga OS and SCALA was designed for the Amiga specifically...........I remember them trying to create SCALA for the PC.......it ran so bad because of Windows, that SCALA had to actually create an Entire New OS for the PC just to get it run properly.
Windows is still a massive Memory hog........I feel scared everytime I use windows when I am attempting to multitask, that the Computer will start accessing the Harddrive for virtual memory thus slowing down the action (wow do I despise this to the core)
When you have something good and then compare it, one can clearly see that Windows is a disaster. This si really true.and not an attempt to insult the OS. When you look at the History of how windows was made and what its foundation is.......one might be able to see that.........as all they have done is build on that very bad foundation.........one day Windows is going to topple over I feel.
I never ever have to worry about Amigas functionality or the OS slowing down as it runs fine on 1mb of Ram or 4mb if you have your OS spruced up...........thats darn amazing. I feel the Amiga OS can be slapped onto a PDA and work insanely awesome...........even my Pocket PC crashes and slows down like heck........thats utterly unacceptible and ridiculous.
I have never seen a Gameboy or Nintendo DS or a PSP slow down............this is how Amigas are........but why the heck to Pocket PC's slow down?
I also love the way Hardware integrates with the Amiga. Im never scared that I lost some gfx driver or something. Very very refreshing. In this day and age with the world geting more complex......I dont have time to worry about some DLL freakin file...........DLL hell man! ANNOYING.
We Amigans are passionate as heck for a reason........one because we know what we hate(Windows.....and with very good reason), and we know what works and why we love it...........Amiga! thats why I stick with it.
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I still use it for two main reasons: Nostalgia and Challenge.
Nostalgia, because the Amiga is the first computer I ever really got into, mainly for music composition and desktop publishing.
Challenge, because it is a lot of fun trying to get the system to do modern things it was never designed to do in the first place.
My main Amiga now is an Amithlon. With it I have connected it to the Internet and my home network. I also have set up a CD-burner on it as well as USB capability.
Using RDesktop, I can remote into my WinXP machine which I use as a pseudo-Bridgeboard to run FireFox and other modern apps which we don't have on the Amiga. I've also used TwinVNC to remote into an Ubuntu Linux box.
It's neat to have Amiga OS3.9 running on a 1280x1024 32-bit color screen, and it's blazingly fast. I also have ShapeShifter to run my old Mac programs (System 7.5).
It's also neat to play CD's and MP3's as well as my old Mod files.
For Deluxe Music, I still use my old classics. Nothing can emulate the warmth and accuracy of the original Paula chips.
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I'm sort of with guru-666... I was never much of a gamer. I was always interested in graphics (lightwave), telecommunications (BBS's), the internet (before it was the web... just usenet and telnet/ftp/smtp).. also did a lot of hacking with my Amiga.
So here it is 200x and the Amiga doesn't do any of these things well anymore... well unless I want to render low color images in low resolution.
The problem is, I am emotionally attached to the computer itself. It's lines, the click the floppy makes, etc. I love it... but once I turn it on I find I am very disappointed with the reality of it. It's not very useful.
8 color workbench, flickering screen, slow screen updates, and nothing really practical to do with it except watch demos and play some games. Browsing the web is too slow to be practical (even with an 030/50 and 64mb ram), and the text editors lack too many modern features to make them useful.
So it sits in it's original box shielded from the sun so it won't turn yellow.
In a sense, my C64 is more fun because I don't expect as much from it.
So I do love my Amiga... but what to do with it?
I was thinking that maybe I could install a ton of games with WHDLoad... I thought maybe it would help me make some good use of it.
Then I tried to configure WHDLoad. What a pain... I haven't gotten around to trying again.
So I dunno... I am considering going back to emulators. I haven't made up my mind yet.
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I'm sort of with guru-666... I was never much of a gamer. I was always interested in graphics (lightwave), telecommunications (BBS's), the internet (before it was the web... just usenet and telnet/ftp/smtp).. also did a lot of hacking with my Amiga.
So here it is 200x and the Amiga doesn't do any of these things well anymore... well unless I want to render low color images in low resolution.
The problem is, I am emotionally attached to the computer itself. It's lines, the click the floppy makes, etc. I love it... but once I turn it on I find I am very disappointed with the reality of it. It's not very useful.
8 color workbench, flickering screen, slow screen updates, and nothing really practical to do with it except watch demos and play some games. Browsing the web is too slow to be practical (even with an 030/50 and 64mb ram), and the text editors lack too many modern features to make them useful.
So it sits in it's original box shielded from the sun so it won't turn yellow.
In a sense, my C64 is more fun because I don't expect as much from it.
So I do love my Amiga... but what to do with it?
I was thinking that maybe I could install a ton of games with WHDLoad... I thought maybe it would help me make some good use of it.
Then I tried to configure WHDLoad. What a pain... I haven't gotten around to trying again.
So I dunno... I am considering going back to emulators. I haven't made up my mind yet.
You have a point, but maybe consider upgrading it with a better accelerator and/or pci with a decent graphics adapter and USB. Believe me, the difference is night and day. A whole world of possibilities will emerge. It will feel like a new computer, but it will still be the same Amiga you know and love. Granted this is not cheap. Its undeniable, too, that brand new PCs are a lot faster than Amigas. But so what? They may be faster, but they're not better. The term "fast" as used in computers is subjective anyway..
Last year's PCs are "fast", but this year they're "faster" (supposedly). Does that all of a sudden make last year's PC no longer "fast" -- the mere existance of something "faster"? Its classic group-think; singularly dumb, yet perfect for a consumer driven economy.
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Because it's so reliable, does what it's told, and fast.
The safest filesystem I have found, ( almost impossible
to loose all data on a disk ). Most data can be recovered
easily from very damaged disks, which almost never happens
anyway.
Can invent any new screenmode at a whim, not just stuck
to whatever winblows gives you.
Multiple monitors and screens ... no problem..
Smooooooth true multitasking.
AND FUN.
WOL....
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I while ago, when I was wondering myself why I wanted to stick with my Amiga for so long, I formulated something of a grand-unified-theory-of-why-the-Amiga-is-so-great. My theory has three branches: Hardware, software, and community.
The hardware was ahead of its time. The custom chipset gave better graphics resolution, decent sound, and parallel processing, all at a decent price point. PC hardware has improved since then, and Amiga hardware has aged, albeit gracefully: An A1200 is much more useful then a contemporary 486, no matter what OS you put on the latter. I wouldn't say hardware is a compelling reason to stick with the Amiga anymore, but it is not so bad yet that it you can't use it at all.
The operating software is logically designed, and honest about what it is doing. No other system, for example, will display a nice clicky GUI at the same time it shows you free memory (both chip & fast) at the top of the screen. Easy for beginners but also useful for the experts, while helping the former progress in their knowledge to become the latter. The "honesty" of the system software was a boon to video applications: want to write to chip RAM during the vertical blanking interval? The OS gave you the hooks. Want to re-define color zero for genlocking? Ever tried doing that with a PC VGA card? Modern Linux comes close, but Linux carries a lot of legacy baggage and, because it runs on a mind-boggling range of hardware, abstracts the hardware too much to be truly Amigoid.
The Amiga community is co-operative. The IFF format was introduced by EA, blessed by C=, and used universally. If I downloaded some song for the Amiga, it just worked. No format wars, no technically inferior formats foisted on us for marketing reasons (the one good thing that came from the non-existence of C= marketing). Bitter infighting occurs, of course, but the differences seem to get aired out early and decisions made on technical merit. The Linux community, by comparison, lacks a central arbitrator, so you get Gnome vs. KDE and the like. The BSD community is a bit more centralized, and better in this respect, though BSD is more a server OS, not my idea of a desktop OS. Microsoft, of course, is an *evil* arbitrator.
That is a short version anyhow, the 10,000 foot view. Previous posters have given examples that I think fall into these general categories.
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I have almost all of mine in the garage boxed up except for a A500, A600HD and A3000D (which are fixing to be put away as soon as I get a chance).
I always use EUAE since it has run just about every game that I have and on top of that my A3k's HD, A4K's HD was copied over to my linux box so now I can boot up to my A3k's or A4k's workbench and use all the software I have on there.
I use it because it reminds me of the good ol' days when computing was fun and the Amiga was on top. Its mostly used for gaming. I put away my other Amiga's because if one were to break I'd need to buy parts to fix it which ATM I'm not interested in doing.
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Nostalgia, it's been 10 years since I could do any serious work on an Amiga, but it's nice to kick back and play an old game or two after work. Sort of remembering the optimism of youth I guess, when, for a brief moment, I had the best state of the art machine and thought I could do wonders.
Yeah, I can do things on the Mac that I can't even dream of on the Amiga, but the thrill isn't there for some reason...
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BTW, my Amiga's are very souped up... 060, even ppc, GFX cards ect... not interested in PCI od USB, these add on cause most of the trouble.
Emulation works nice with imageFX, but generally it always has issues for me... IOW does not work crashes and so on.
When people say the Amiga is a simple machine that simply does what it's told, I wonder what the heck are these people doing? Talk about hard to expand, tricky settings and abnormal stuff that you just have to know! Just read the forum and you will see all sorts of hardware and software issues that NOT easy to fix.
But just like vic20 I love them....even if they cost a fortune and don't do much of anything... it just getting harder to justify is all.
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Agreed... poor filesystem, lack of memory protection, no virtual memory, AmigaOS is not worthy of any awards for stability...
But even after all that it's more stable than Windows ME for example, but not XP. XP offer memory protection which in most cases prevents an app from taking down the entire OS.
This is something that never existed for the Amiga... it's really easy to guru an Amiga.
BUT... remember, at the time most people were using MS-DOS 6.0 and Windows 3.1.
Compared MSDOS and Windows 3.1, the Amiga was incredible.
I'll probably end up keeping my Amiga... why.. I dunno... maybe to save it from the junk yard.
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@vic20owner
Quote:
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8 color workbench, flickering screen, slow screen updates, and nothing really practical to do with it except watch demos and play some games. Browsing the web is too slow to be practical (even with an 030/50 and 64mb ram), and the text editors lack too many modern features to make them useful.
So it sits in it's original box shielded from the sun so it won't turn yellow.
In a sense, my C64 is more fun because I don't expect as much from it.
So I do love my Amiga... but what to do with it?
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ooooh do I HIGHLY disagree with you on those statements. I have never used a GFX card on any of my Amigas..........I use Native AGA on my A1200 and its quite lovely and useful...........seriously more useful than OSX or Windows for me.........I have configured it to be more useful with simply Magic Menu and ToolsDaemon. I can load programs faster than I can on a Mac or PC. its usability is amazing.
and as what to do with your Amiga? How about Gelocking? ChromaKeying? Video Titling? as far as I have seen, it is still way easier to do this on an Amiga. The quality of the ChromaKeying is much better than some I have seen with WIndowsMedia Maker for instance.
it is really fun to use the ChromaKey PLUS with S-Video and MiniDV footage. The quality is DVD or better. and to top that Karaoke is very popular these days.............with the ChromaKey I can put poeple on a Blue Screen looking silly singing to their favorite songs with an animated background or DigitalJuice.com animations...........which I convert to the Amiga to use with SCALA, ELan Performer or DCTV. Transfering the clips is a breeze with the JUICER and my Subway USB card to read thumb drives.
I also play 4 player games on a FLicker Free Projector I have wich gives me crisp RGB clarity through the S-Video port and de interlaces the image.
I record Speaches on DSS8+ that are really really long and can be PodCast............You can put some fun videos you made with your Amiga on YouTube...............I do lots more that I cant rememember off the top of my head. But Amigas are still FUN!
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Last year's PCs are "fast", but this year they're "faster" (supposedly). Does that all of a sudden make last year's PC no longer "fast" -- the mere existance of something "faster"? Its classic group-think; singularly dumb, yet perfect for a consumer driven economy.
By that reasoning, you are dumb if you drive to your job on the other side of town because cars are "fast" but before cars, people thought running was "fast"... well, I hope you have good shoes buddy!
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By that reasoning, you are dumb if you
....Make a bogus analogy?
drive to your job on the other side of town because cars are "fast" but before cars, people thought running was "fast"...
"Car" is a noun, "Running" is a verb. I compared two (similar) nouns. Besides, people didn't declare walking obsolete when cars became ubiquitous.
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@stopthegop
Thank you!
I was already writing a way to elaborate post just to make that point! Luckily I noticed your post before I could finish mine!
Bad analogies really make me cringe these days.
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I guess for me it's an even split between misty-eyed nostalgia and the love of tinkering with things.
To me, it's bit like a duck made of cheese*
*That analogy was placed for the benefit of eidofoor. :-D
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I'd personally be interested in specifics if you're willing to provide them.
I put this together a long time ago, and some of it may no longer be valid, and the rest will be picked apart for inaccuracy, but for what it's worth:
Modern Operating Systems
If the hard drive requires reformatting, some registered programs must be re-registered.
More effort has gone into hiding data and information than has gone into making it easy to work with.
Tired of the response, "Well what else is there?" when talking to the average Joe about alternative platforms and operating systems.
Modern software designers have never heard of buttons called Use and Test, and have no concept of what the word Cancel actually means.
The desktop is at the highest position in the device hierarchy, yet it's really a subdirectory on the boot drive. The hierarchy should have the drives at the top and work its way inward, not take some arbitrary starting point and pretend it's the top.
Modern OS users seem oblivious of the difference between Screens and Windows. Here's a hint: if the entity being referred to can be moved or resized, then it isn't a Screen (unless it can only be dragged upward and downward, and then it's not Windows.
Ever intend to drag the contents of a window which may be positioned close to the window's edge, and instead get the pointer too close to the border, drag it and inadvertently resize the window? Wouldn't be so bad if you could cancel it before letting go of the mouse button.
Most, if not all Windows-only users who know what wildcards are think that *.* and ? are perfectly adequate wildcards.
Microsoft tells us where we are to save all of our data. What ever would we do without them helping us with such difficult decisions? Heaven forbid we try to save our stuff in a place that differs from the norm.
Modern operating systems are programmed to be task-oriented rather than user-oriented, giving more importance to what the computer wants to do and less to what the user wants to do. Operating systems of the past had the opposite feeling. Regardless of how "slow" the hardware, if the system became unresponsive it was usually because of something which had gone wrong rather than simply being standard operation.
If the application is busy, accessing menus is impossible.
Let's put the close gadget right next to the "minimize/maximize" gadgets. Who cares if the user clicks the wrong one and loses all their work. We'll just have extra "are you sure" requesters to ensure the user feels both protected and annoyed.
Why are the scroll bar arrows separated by the scroll bar? Isn't the idea of scroll arrows to keep from having to move the mouse while scrolling?
When the system is busy, the entire GUI appears frozen. Often there is no indication that this is normal. The system simply fails to respond.
Progress bars that use 10 - 20 pixel wide segments have been widely adopted by many applications in modern operating systems, foregoing a more comfortable and informative pixel-wide segment.
How can a computer crash so hard that it no longer accepts input from the keyboard?
There's usually no clean way to cancel an errant mouse click. If the user intends to drag-and-drop something, clicks and starts to drag it, then realizes before dropping that it shouldn't be dropped, most operating systems won't let the user cancel it easily without the risk of dropping it in a potentially dangerous place.
Buy it, use it, throw it away.
Modern operating systems don't support two-image icons.
Just try renaming a "folder" or a file while it's being accessed in any capacity by any other application.
Students in today's "I.T." studies are being taught to underwrite software, leave behind bugs and use poor implementation methods in the name of job security. Students I've spoken to will attest to this new ideology.
Windows don't conform to a user-defined default position and instead either recall the last used size and position or default to what the programmers feel is appropriate for all users. How about allowing the user to tell the operating system when to save window position coordinates rather than saving them every time the thing is moved?
Scroll gadgets snap to their original position if the mouse is moved an abstract distance from them.
PCs are 70s technology. The Y2K problem is clear evidence that the original designers of the PC never imagined that it would still be used beyond the 20th Century.
Complete incompatibility with other platforms. Initially Microsoft will announce and release a new format and open the source to developers. Then after it's been widely adopted, Microsoft changes the format and withholds
the sources.
If DOS is really gone from Windows, why can't I put backslashes and colons in file names?
More often than not, the Microsoft Wizard is less helpful than just allowing the user to configure something manually. Getting Windows to realize this and allow manual configuration can be more difficult than actually getting the thing configured.
The Start Menu actually reads source files linked by shortcuts before the user clicks on anything. Normally not a big deal, but when the source file is located on a network or a drive that spins down, the whole start menu freezes while the drive spins up or the network connection is made. It can be quite lengthy if the connection times out.
It's become common practice not to include any form of documentation within installation packages. In many cases, the only way to figure out what software is or does is to install it. Then, if it isn't what's wanted or expected, uninstall it, which usually leaves bits of the program behind.
Any clicks on a specific letter of text existing in a text gadget is ignored in favor of Windows' desire to highlight the entire line, requiring a second click to put the cursor where the user originally intended on the first click.
Instead of naming system files something useful, they're given cryptic 8.3 file names in combinations of numbers and letters even though the OS has supported long file names for over a decade.
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Roj, I'm not going to line-item pick that apart because it is wholly and entirely wrong. Everything. There is no one point of wrongness that needs to be brought to attention over the other(s).
I'd recommend you educate yourself about the various OSs before railing about them but...
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Computers compute. The more operations per second that a computer can perform, the more things the computer is capable of doing. The more a computer is capable of doing, the better the end user experience is going to be (though of course this is dependent on the user running software that uses the computer's capabilities in ways that accomplish what the user wants). The extra computing ability of faster machines allows for more processing power to be allotted for creating easy/useful user interfaces in addition to the basic functions a user is trying to perform (generating images, calculations, editting text, sending and recieving TCP packets, etc). Saying that making computers faster does not improve them is, well... retarded.
I see that you're using an 060/PPC in your Amiga. Why? By your own argument, that doesn't make your Amiga any better. For that matter, why even use a 4000, don't you think that a 1000 with its 68000 is just as good?
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Wow, what kind of drugs were you on when you wrote this?
If the hard drive requires reformatting, some registered programs must be re-registered.
Huh? If the hard drive requires reformatting, you're going to have a blank hard drive. Thats on any system, as far as I know. You won't have any software left on it, registered or not. If you didn't bother to back up your software and any license keys for shareware/commercial software, then the problem isn't the OS, its you being an idiot.
More effort has gone into hiding data and information than has gone into making it easy to work with.
This is true of much commercial software, new and old. However, there are plenty of cutting edge modern OSes and other software that this makes your claim completely untrue. You ever hear of Linux, bud? Open source is about as unhidden as you can get.
Modern software designers have never heard of buttons called Use and Test, and have no concept of what the word Cancel actually means.
I don't think you have any concept of what you're trying to say here... at least, it doesn't make any sense to me.
The desktop is at the highest position in the device hierarchy, yet it's really a subdirectory on the boot drive. The hierarchy should have the drives at the top and work its way inward, not take some arbitrary starting point and pretend it's the top.
You seem to think that the user interface needs to exactly map to the filesystem. That may be one approach, but its probably not the best one unless you're using something like DOS or a textmode Unix OS. Or are you even saying its the filesystem... I see you say "device hierarchy." If that's the case, wouldn't the CPU be the top?
For that matter, I don't think Amigas even fit your idea. The main WorkBench screen doesn't correspond to the boot drive.
The more I think about this paragraph of yours, the less sense it makes.
Modern OS users seem oblivious of the difference between Screens and Windows. Here's a hint: if the entity being referred to can be moved or resized, then it isn't a Screen (unless it can only be dragged upward and downward, and then it's not Windows.
Huh? If you run X on a unix system (whether plain or under a system like KDE, Gnome, CDE, or whatever) you have multiple virtual screens (multiple actual screens means separate monitors) with 0 or more windows on them. The idea of draggable screens is an Amiga concept, but its hardly the only way of handling multiple screens. Also, I'm fairly sure all but the most dumb users can tell a screen from a window.
Ever intend to drag the contents of a window which may be positioned close to the window's edge, and instead get the pointer too close to the border, drag it and inadvertently resize the window? Wouldn't be so bad if you could cancel it before letting go of the mouse button.
No, but then I'm not an idiot. On my Linux system, if I drag a window off the edge of a screen, it moves it to the next screen over (in any of the 4 directions I choose).
Most, if not all Windows-only users who know what wildcards are think that *.* and ? are perfectly adequate wildcards.
For most people's purposes, they are perectly adequate. While Amiga's CLI has more wildcards, how often do most people need the fancier ones? And if you want to do dickwaving, the regexps available for unix OSes are a whole lot more powerful than Amiga's. But again, so what? 99% of the time * and ? are all you need.
Microsoft tells us where we are to save all of our data. What ever would we do without them helping us with such difficult decisions? Heaven forbid we try to save our stuff in a place that differs from the norm.
Even if that were true (which it is not), equating Microsoft with all modern OSes is pretty silly.
Modern operating systems are programmed to be task-oriented rather than user-oriented, giving more importance to what the computer wants to do and less to what the user wants to do.
That makes no sense.
If the application is busy, accessing menus is impossible.
Depends on the application/OS I suppose, but I almost never encounter this on any modern OSes I've used.
Let's put the close gadget right next to the "minimize/maximize" gadgets. Who cares if the user clicks the wrong one and loses all their work. We'll just have extra "are you sure" requesters to ensure the user feels both protected and annoyed.
I can put my gadgets anywhere I want on my Linux windows... left, right, center, whatever. I can choose which gadgets I want, define my own, and pick what they look like. I think even Windows XP lets you have *some* control over gadgets nowadays (I don't use Windows often, so I'm not sure). As much as I love my Amiga, its pretty deficient in your control over window gadgets.
Why are the scroll bar arrows separated by the scroll bar? Isn't the idea of scroll arrows to keep from having to move the mouse while scrolling?
I think on most modern OSes, more people probably use their mouse wheel or Page Up/Down buttons than clicking on scroll arrows. I don't think I've ever clicked on the arrows on my scroll bar in Linux... ever.
When the system is busy, the entire GUI appears frozen. Often there is no indication that this is normal. The system simply fails to respond.
Never happens on my system. Even on Windows, you've got to be running abnormally heavy load before it gets that hung up. I've seen my Amiga get frozen up like that more than even Windows systems.
Progress bars that use 10 - 20 pixel wide segments have been widely adopted by many applications in modern operating systems, foregoing a more comfortable and informative pixel-wide segment.
Uh... what?
How can a computer crash so hard that it no longer accepts input from the keyboard?
Maybe you forgot to plug your keyboard in.
There's usually no clean way to cancel an errant mouse click.
There's no clean way to cancel an errant "Bikers are stupid pussies!" shouted in a biker bar either. Whats your point? Mistakes are mistakes, you can't blame the OS for something stupid you did. That's entirely on you.
If the user intends to drag-and-drop something, clicks and starts to drag it, then realizes before dropping that it shouldn't be dropped, most operating systems won't let the user cancel it easily without the risk of dropping it in a potentially dangerous place.
You know you can just drag it back to its original location, right?
Buy it, use it, throw it away.
Huh?
Modern operating systems don't support two-image icons.
Just plain wrong. Many systems have 2 image icons, and even animated icons.
Just try renaming a "folder" or a file while it's being accessed in any capacity by any other application.
I do that plenty of times. Linux has a pretty good filesystem that internally manages files by inode, so changing a file's name while its in use (even while you're still downloading it) often works just fine.
Students in today's "I.T." studies are being taught to underwrite software, leave behind bugs and use poor implementation methods in the name of job security. Students I've spoken to will attest to this new ideology.
If by "I.T." you mean Idiot Tech, then OK... but if you're talking about the actual real world, I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen. By the way, I'm a software developer and have been for years. I'm pretty sure someone who deliberately wrote bugs and bad software would be, y'know, FIRED.
Windows don't conform to a user-defined default position and instead either recall the last used size and position or default to what the programmers feel is appropriate for all users.
Mine do. I can think of several ways to do that too (X resources files, window properties in KDE, -geometry arguments, etc).
Scroll gadgets snap to their original position if the mouse is moved an abstract distance from them.
I think that is the result of whatever hallucinogenic drug you've been sprinkling on your Corn Flakes for breakfast.
PCs are 70s technology.
How so? I sure don't remember any Pentiums back then. If you're saying that because they evolved from old 8080 systems in the 70s... well, the 68000 was developed in the 70s. Not developed from 70s technology, but actually developed IN the 70s. The first 68000 was made in 1979.
The Y2K problem is clear evidence that the original designers of the PC never imagined that it would still be used beyond the 20th Century.
The Y2K problem mostly applied to obsolete software that should've been replaced long ago. It also turned out not to affect much of anything, and was in large part a scheme for consultants to make a bunch of money by scaring corporate managers. It also has nothing to do with modern OSes.
Complete incompatibility with other platforms. Initially Microsoft will announce and release a new format and open the source to developers. Then after it's been widely adopted, Microsoft changes the format and withholds
the sources.
Let me know when you've got Deluxe Paint IV running on Windows without using an Amiga emulator, or when you've figured out a way to put a Zorro II card into my Linux PC.
If DOS is really gone from Windows, why can't I put backslashes and colons in file names?
Probably because you're ignorant of escaping reserved characters.
More often than not, the Microsoft Wizard is less helpful than just allowing the user to configure something manually.
Again, Windows is not all modern OSes. And even in Windows, there are often ways to bypass the wizards and configure things manually.
when the source file is located on a network or a drive that spins down, the whole start menu freezes while the drive spins up or the network connection is made.
Windows is not all modern OSes. Also, if the situation you describe happens, that is an issue with a stupid system or network administrator, not the OS.
It's become common practice not to include any form of documentation within installation packages.
You know those files named like "README" that come with most software? You're supposed to, like, read them.
Any clicks on a specific letter of text existing in a text gadget is ignored in favor of Windows' desire to highlight the entire line, requiring a second click to put the cursor where the user originally intended on the first click.
I don't know/care about Windows, but on my Linux system, mouse highlighting is extremely configurable.
Instead of naming system files something useful, they're given cryptic 8.3 file names in combinations of numbers and letters even though the OS has supported long file names for over a decade.
I don't need 8.3 file names on my Linux system. Never have. Windows uses them internally but most users never see that since most interfaces translate the names to long names transparently... even at the command line, it will recognize long names. I'm pretty sure Macs dont need 8.3 filenames, and theres plenty of other modern OSes that don't need these.
While Amiga's filenames were greatly superior to DOS back in the late 80s and early 90s, coming from the unix world I kind of think the case insensitivity of Amiga filenames can be problematic sometimes. Also, compared to modern long filenames, Amiga's are pretty short.
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@ Murple:
Where did I say making computers faster didn't improve them????
I was critical of the widely held but simplistic belief, pervasive if not universal in the PC world, that the CPU clock frequence is the only thing that matters. Most people who buy PCs are blissfully ignorant and give consideration only to that number... how many "giggeh herts" a machine has. I won't bother listing any of the thousands of other technical specifications germaine to all things electronic, particularly computers, but the CPUs clock frequency is just one number. The machine could be a total piece of sh1t in every way, but as long as its got lots of them "giggu hurtez", the sheeple will buy it.
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As I said, I wrote most of that a long, long time ago. Back in the Win98 era when I was having horrible trouble with software for a business venture. I needed to rant at the time and that's the result.
While your experience with Linux is admirable, It's clear that your experience with the platform being supported by this website is fairly minimal.
Let me explain some of these points a little more in-depth. I'll refrain from insults. Your feathers have been ruffled enough already.
Huh? If the hard drive requires reformatting, you're going to have a blank hard drive. Thats on any system, as far as I know. You won't have any software left on it, registered or not. If you didn't bother to back up your software and any license keys for shareware/commercial software, then the problem isn't the OS, its you being an idiot.
1. Re-registered, as in "It won't work without first contacting the company." Nero, Roxio, many games and specifically newer Windows versions need to phone home before they'll work again. Notice I said registering, as in the Windows registry. I said nothing of having to pay for them twice.
* Thanks for calling me an idiot. Appreciate that.
This is true of much commercial software, new and old. However, there are plenty of cutting edge modern OSes and other software that this makes your claim completely untrue. You ever hear of Linux, bud? Open source is about as unhidden as you can get.
2. This statement was primarily applicable to Windows and Macs.
* I'm thrilled to be your bud.
I don't think you have any concept of what you're trying to say here... at least, it doesn't make any sense to me..
3. Amiga preferences, and many applications in general, have Save, Use, Test and Cancel buttons. Clicking Use will allow the setting to be applied to the current session. Clicking Save will permanently save the settings. Test allows the setting to be evaluated without committing to the change. Clicking Cancel after Testing a setting reverts to the previous setting without making changes.
The fact that you didn't know what I was talking about illustrates the point better than I could.
* I'm sorry I didn't understand what I was talking about.
You seem to think that the user interface needs to exactly map to the filesystem. That may be one approach, but its probably not the best one unless you're using something like DOS or a textmode Unix OS. Or are you even saying its the filesystem... I see you say "device hierarchy." If that's the case, wouldn't the CPU be the top?
4. I wasn't refering to the user interface. Storage device hierarchy: A directory tree as shown when looking at the storage media heirarchy should show the root directory at the top, then subdirectories beneath it. In the Windows tree specifically, the Desktop is shown as the root of the heirarchy followed by My Documents with the system root below those two entries. My Documents and the Desktop directories are subdirectories found further inside the storage media tree.
* How does one store files directly on the CPU?
Huh? If you run X on a unix system (whether plain or under a system like KDE, Gnome, CDE, or whatever) you have multiple virtual screens (multiple actual screens means separate monitors) with 0 or more windows on them. The idea of draggable screens is an Amiga concept, but its hardly the only way of handling multiple screens. Also, I'm fairly sure all but the most dumb users can tell a screen from a window.
5. This one is a minor one, but here goes. You don't spend much time trying to teach computers to novices then, do you? Windows and Screens are frequently misreferenced, even by some developers. Installing a game, for instance, a Window will appear in the middle of the desktop with all the installation options showing. The Window will mistakenly reference itself as a Screen rather than a Window.
There are always exceptions. While I realize that newer versions of Linux support multiple screens on multiple monitors, most people still don't function that way. And they certainly didn't when I originally wrote my little rant.
No, but then I'm not an idiot. On my Linux system, if I drag a window off the edge of a screen, it moves it to the next screen over (in any of the 4 directions I choose).
6. I wasn't refering to dragging windows across screens. Merely intending to click something within a couple of pixels of the window border and inadvertently grabbing the border itself.
*So I'm an idiot, my father is an idiot, my grandfather was an idiot, all because we have a genetic disorder which makes our hands somewhat less coordinated (read: shaky) than the average person. Thanks. Appreciate that nice take on my family lineage.
For most people's purposes, they are perectly adequate. While Amiga's CLI has more wildcards, how often do most people need the fancier ones? And if you want to do dickwaving, the regexps available for unix OSes are a whole lot more powerful than Amiga's. But again, so what? 99% of the time * and ? are all you need.
7. Unless you're looking for a pointer in a directory of source code, at which point * becomes completely useless. Granted there are other tools and methods of searching for a pointer reference, but then that's my point. Other methods are necessary. I frequently use the negation and grouping wildcards for many things. E-mail filtering is just one example. That little 1% you refer to occurs quite often.
Even if that were true (which it is not), equating Microsoft with all modern OSes is pretty silly.
8. But unfortunately the majority of people do.
That makes no sense.
9. This one is tougher to quantify. I'll just say "you had to be there" that day.
Depends on the application/OS I suppose, but I almost never encounter this on any modern OSes I've used.
10. It's good that your current system works in a similar fashion to the Amiga. This one (and admittedly most of this) is Windows-centric.
*Forgive me.
I can put my gadgets anywhere I want on my Linux windows... left, right, center, whatever. I can choose which gadgets I want, define my own, and pick what they look like. I think even Windows XP lets you have *some* control over gadgets nowadays (I don't use Windows often, so I'm not sure). As much as I love my Amiga, its pretty deficient in your control over window gadgets.
11. At the original time of writing, there was no way to do it.
I think on most modern OSes, more people probably use their mouse wheel or Page Up/Down buttons than clicking on scroll arrows. I don't think I've ever clicked on the arrows on my scroll bar in Linux... ever.
12. My father almost can't use his hands anymore. The mouse wheel scrolls the page too fast for him to keep up with and his coordination leaves much to be desired. One day I'll have the same trouble.
*But I'll be sure to let my father know that he's no longer allowed to operate his windows in this fashion because murple doesn't. The arrows should be removed entirely.
Never happens on my system. Even on Windows, you've got to be running abnormally heavy load before it gets that hung up. I've seen my Amiga get frozen up like that more than even Windows systems.
13. I guess copying files is an abnormally heavy load in that case. But again, you probably had to be there.
Uh... what?
14. Progress bars. For instance, copying files. You get a 20x20 pixel rectangle representing progress, then it sits. Another rectangle appears, and then it sits. Contrast this to a progress bar that moves from left to right a single pixel at a time. It's generally a better indication that something is actually happening.
*Sorry to confuse you.
Maybe you forgot to plug your keyboard in.
15. Hahaha! Haha. ha. Yeah, that must be it. Even when the Amiga is hard-locked, holding down the reset keys for a few seconds will usually reset the system.
*Unless the keyboard isn't plugged in.
There's no clean way to cancel an errant "Bikers are stupid pussies!" shouted in a biker bar either. Whats your point? Mistakes are mistakes, you can't blame the OS for something stupid you did. That's entirely on you.
16. This is exactly the mentality I can't stand. Are you saying you always click exactly where you want, or that you don't ever, ever change your mind while you're dragging something?
*I wanna be like murple
You know you can just drag it back to its original location, right?
17 & 18. Most of the time it can be returned to its original spot. Not always, but most of the time.
Huh?
18. I think most people know what this means.
*Where is the 486 and Voodoo card you used not too long ago?
Just plain wrong. Many systems have 2 image icons, and even animated icons.
19. They didn't when I originally wrote the article. About time they caught up, isn't it.
I do that plenty of times. Linux has a pretty good filesystem that internally manages files by inode, so changing a file's name while its in use (even while you're still downloading it) often works just fine.
20. Windows doesn't.
If by "I.T." you mean Idiot Tech, then OK... but if you're talking about the actual real world, I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen. By the way, I'm a software developer and have been for years. I'm pretty sure someone who deliberately wrote bugs and bad software would be, y'know, FIRED.
21. You and I don't have the same experience here.
Mine do. I can think of several ways to do that too (X resources files, window properties in KDE, -geometry arguments, etc).
22. Perhaps I'll recaption the text "Modern Operating Systems except Linux".
*Nah.
I think that is the result of whatever hallucinogenic drug you've been sprinkling on your Corn Flakes for breakfast.
23. Most Windows users are familiar with this feature.
*without the use of hallucinogenic drugs. Bet it's even neater with them!
How so? I sure don't remember any Pentiums back then. If you're saying that because they evolved from old 8080 systems in the 70s... well, the 68000 was developed in the 70s. Not developed from 70s technology, but actually developed IN the 70s. The first 68000 was made in 1979.
24. Was referring to the BIOS, not the CPU. The Y2K bug was indeed a software shortcoming.
The Y2K problem mostly applied to obsolete software that should've been replaced long ago. It also turned out not to affect much of anything, and was in large part a scheme for consultants to make a bunch of money by scaring corporate managers. It also has nothing to do with modern OSes.
25. Quite.
Let me know when you've got Deluxe Paint IV running on Windows without using an Amiga emulator, or when you've figured out a way to put a Zorro II card into my Linux PC.
26. To quote a good friend of mine, "Huh?"
Probably because you're ignorant of escaping reserved characters.
27. I feel so enlightened now. It's a warm, fuzzy feeling.
Again, Windows is not all modern OSes. And even in Windows, there are often ways to bypass the wizards and configure things manually.
28. I'm glad we agree.
Windows is not all modern OSes. Also, if the situation you describe happens, that is an issue with a stupid system or network administrator, not the OS.
29. What should I tell my stupid network administrator to get him to accelerate the spinning up of removable drives? And what should I insult him with for forcing the network to prompt for a password when it's required, causing the system to wait so unneccesarily?
You know those files named like "README" that come with most software? You're supposed to, like, read them.
30. Yes. Often they're included in "InstallThisPackage.EXE". To thwart your next effort at my computer-based manhood, I always create said README myself after I download something. That's not my point. It'd be nice if I didn't have to.
I don't know/care about Windows, but on my Linux system, mouse highlighting is extremely configurable.
31. Great! But I thought I made clear that I'd written this dissertation some time ago and not all of it was applicable.
While Amiga's filenames were greatly superior to DOS back in the late 80s and early 90s, coming from the unix world I kind of think the case insensitivity of Amiga filenames can be problematic sometimes. Also, compared to modern long filenames, Amiga's are pretty short.
32. Case sensitivity can cause as many problems as it solves. In any case, I never saw much benefit to having two files with the same name.
* = Sarcastic remark intended to evoke a humorous response. Not to be taken seriously. Boy, computers sure do turn people mean, don't they.
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Ahhh the Amiga, for years it wasn't more than WinUAE but in the last few months I've started putting my 1200 back together. Now after spending over £300 I've got a nice tower conversion, 68030@50mhz, 50mb ram, scsi, pci board with voodoo, sound and network.
Now why did I do this you might ask when WinUAE basically would of done more than I ever needed i.e. games. Well lad and ladesses its the feeling of powering up an actual amiga rather than an enulator. Its the satisfaction you get from actually using the real machine.
I intend to replace my Vista machine with the Amiga for internet usage basically cause its a lot quieter and more fun to work with.
One other thing. Theres alot of hate here towards Microsoft and the OS's. Ive always used them from 95 right up to Vista now on my main rig. To be honest I think the best Microsoft OS is XP. Vista is jsut a pain in the arse with its damn security.
Someone saidyou can't rename a folder while access it in windows. WRONG you can indeed rename the folder as long as the program your using is an standard windows program. Example playing an MP3 on Media Player. The file name fodler name can be renamed to whatever you want and it plays on regardless. If your using a 3rd party player then no it can't but why blame the OS for 3rd party software.
Again its been said why can't I have : or \ in the file names, well thats cuase windows uses those references in its filesystem doesn't it. Even in Vista you can still type c:\hiddenfiles\porn\messy.avi and it works. The OS uses those operators so you can't have them and btw there are a shed load of other keys pick one of them.
Next time your stupidly click on an Icon drag it then think of I shouldn't of done that try hitting Escape instead of panicing.
I could ramble on for ages here proving that all yer negitive windows points are infact pointless but I need to get back to work but in short Windows has done more for home computing than any other OS. Fair play to Microsoft they seen a chance and went for it. I would bet that anyone could easily use a windows enviroment way before Linux or Amiga. Windows has been developed for the Living Room pc experance not the attic nerd.
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I was asked why I stuck with the Amiga. A lot of what was pointed out were things I didn't particularly care for in other platforms. I'm well aware that things have improved some since then, but my distaste for Windows, et. al., developed from experiences from that time period. I apologize for the ruffled feathers, but that's the way it is.
Keep two things in mind:
1. They were true at the time I originally wrote them, which for the most part was the late 1990s.
2. This is my opinion, and I haven't seen much of anything that would change my mind on the subject. I use other platforms, but that doesn't mean I have to like them. You generally don't influence people by first insulting them. (Insults generally come from a lack of confidence anyway.)
It only bothers me that my opinion is pointless to some when their opinions mean something to me. ;-)
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i think these last few posts have been kindoff off topic but i will comment anyway: a well configured system run by an informed if not well trained user will work significantly better than a hack banging away changing stuff they know nothing about and trying to use the system anyway they want.
that applies i think weather you are using any variant of windows, linux, amiga os or mac os
think of it like a car: if you put kero in, set tire presure to 90lbs and run your standard tranny like an auto and leave your doors open for air; you arent going to go too far no matter how you think it should be setup.
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@KThunder
To add to the "Why do I stick with Amiga" topic, here's another viewpoint. If I were to stack the books that taught me about using the Amiga, I'd have a stack of about three to four inches (8 - 10 cm) high. Talking about using here, not programming. If I were to stack the books that have taught me about Windows, I'd have a stack about nine to ten inches (23 - 24 cm) high, and I'm still not sure those books cover as many aspects of Windows as the Amiga books cover about the Amiga.
Granted, the books in question may not be the best, but then again they may be. A properly configured Windows system should work better than one banged away on by a hack, but consider the material that needs to be covered to get to that point vs. the relative simplistic power of other systems. My question is, is that added complexity in Windows buying me anything, or is it merely a security-through-obscurity philosophy?
I don't love Windows enough to spend that kind of time with it. It's probably a chicken-and-egg thing. If I spent the time I might get into it more, but I don't care enough about it (yet) to spend the time.
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For the sheer fun of it and the community :).
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OK, so, you wrote your rant just about Windows and a long time ago and it doesn't necessarily apply to modern OSes or non-Windows OSes.
Apparently though, that wasn't enough to stop you from posting it in 2007 and aiming the rant at all "Modern Operating Systems" anyway.
Roj wrote:
3. Amiga preferences, and many applications in general, have Save, Use, Test and Cancel buttons. Clicking Use will allow the setting to be applied to the current session. Clicking Save will permanently save the settings. Test allows the setting to be evaluated without committing to the change. Clicking Cancel after Testing a setting reverts to the previous setting without making changes.
I'm aware of that. However, your statement regarding other platforms made no sense... as opposed to most of your other statements which, while often completely wrong, at least it was possible to tell what you were ranting crazily about.
Oh hell I don't feel like responding to all your "points"...
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If the operating system is smart enough to detect the monitor then you don't really need "Test" or "Use" buttons in most cases... you just change the setting and keep it if you like it.
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Again you insult me.
OK, so, you wrote your rant just about Windows and a long time ago and it doesn't necessarily apply to modern OSes or non-Windows OSes.
It applied to my opinion about why I still use an Amiga, which, if I'm not mistaken is what this thread is about.
Roj wrote:
I just never liked the way other systems do things. I could go into specifics, but that's a good enough summation.
MskoDestny wrote:
I'd personally be interested in specifics if you're willing to provide them.
You are COMPLETELY ignoring the topic of this thread. It asked for opinions on why people stick with Amigas. It's not asking for justification, or for people whose opinions differ to come in and start acting like you are.
I was asked by the original thread poster for my opinion, and I gave my opinion. I was asked by the original poster to give details, so I did. I'm following the thread topic. You don't like my opinion and so you're being insulting, going off-topic, and generally being pushy.
Oh hell I don't feel like responding to all your "points"...
What changed your mind? You didn't mind picking the crap out of my opinion on the last page. Why the change?
It's my opinion. In fact you've strengthened it. You didn't stick with the Amiga. This isn't a thread for you. Now either go away or come back with much more lucid rebuttal. These "everything you said was wrong" arguments are a waste of space.
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[/quote]If the operating system is smart enough to detect the monitor then you don't really need "Test" or "Use" buttons in most cases... you just change the setting and keep it if you like it.[/quote]
That's true, but there's a lot more to those gadgets than just screen mode settings though.
Just off the top of my head, if I want to change, say, the screen font, I can check several out to see what they look like. If later I don't like the one I picked, and I only clicked Use, then a quick reboot reverts to my previous setting. This applies to all the system settings. (I had to admit needing to reboot because Font is one of the few that doesn't have a Test button.)
If you reboot Windows after just clicking Apply, it doesn't matter whether or not you follow it with Cancel or even restart. You still get your applied font. Some people may love this feature. I don't.
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Why do I stick with Amiga?
Simple, easy to use and very functional even today.
The Amiga also boasts as one of the few that you can turn off without doing any sort of shutdown procedure. Even the Mac cant do that without causing issues.
The Amiga is very powerful even today as look at what you can do with it with the Video Toaster/Flyer for example and with only 16mb of ram! PC's and Mac's of the 90's could never do it. You need a PC with more than 1gig of ram and a 256mb graphics card nowadays to fully realize the functions that the Video Toaster did in an Amiga.
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Why do you stick with the Amiga?
You know, I'm not even sure.
Thinking about it I can't logically or objectively give reasons for sticking with the machine.
I guess it's more sentimental than anything else.
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You know, Roj, I take it back. That's some real insight you've got there: it's entirely fair to compare an OS that hasn't matured or advanced in over a decade and a half to various flavors of PC operating systems from the same era.
Of course, if you compare amiga os to modern OS's, well, then, ot just falls apart.
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an OS that hasn't matured or advanced in over a decade and a half
I wouldn't exactly say it hasn't advanced. I also use MorphOS, and consider it just as much Amiga as the classic. It may not have matured, but in some ways this is a good thing.
[/quote]Of course, if you compare amiga os to modern OS's, well, then, ot just falls apart.[/quote]
In some ways, yes, In some ways, no, but that's all the further I'll go with it.
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Hi,
1) AmigaOS is simple to use, compact in footprint and not a bloated bug ridden piece of s%^t!
2) Ever run or even find a Windows program on a single or even two floppies today? Amiga apps are also small and compact and unbloated.
3) REAL working multi-tasking that does not hang every time you try to do something else.
4) It's the Amiga man!!
I use the Amiga for as many things as I am able whether business or personal. I only use PC's for things I must. I will continue to do so until the day someone comes out with hardware and an OS that matches and exceeds Amiga's capabilities... until then...
Take it light!
Malakie
BTW: After further review... THE BEARS STILL SUCK!!! :-D
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Hi
>Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
Cus I wouldn`t wanna get ' stuck with Windows '...
Get it.. 'stuck with Windows '... never mind.
I'm still trying to get my ZX81 to work.
scuzz
http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com :lol:
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For me it is stress relief from troubleshooting and getting annoyed with Windows XP for 8 hours each day at work.
I should be happy not to have to use the win98 as I did several years ago :)
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Hi,
I use the Amiga basically because it is a fun computer.
When I see the demos, listen to the music and run the
programs that common everyday people have made for the Amiga
I know that it is a fun computer.
Do you see this on th PC's, not really!
Do you this on the MACS, heck no, they are still looking for
the on/off switch. They need specific instructions on how to
use their computers, (right Wayne).
Anyhow it was/is the people that made the Amiga. People like
Wayne, Wilse, Glaucus, Roi, merple, and all the others on
Amiga.Org etc. Lets face it Amiga people are a team, a team
that made Amiga computin fun.
In other words Miner and the original Amiga designers incorp.
created their team work into the minds and users of the Amiga.
Oh yeah, when was the last time you turned on your winblows
or rotten core machine to do something creative so that you
could share it with the PC or MAC team (if there is one).
Creativity, music, demos, programs and games, all on one
machine, WELCOME TO THE CLUB sponsered by AMIGA.
smerf