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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Bamiga2002 on July 25, 2007, 06:04:14 PM
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Hello. Looking for two 64MB or 128MB 50ns SIMMs (one-sided or flat 2-sided to fit a BPPC). Where to find those with a fair price? I've found a Kingston-model but they cost a fortune! :angry:
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How much is a fortune these days??
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Normally, that sort of RAM would only be found in high-spec servers or graphics workstations. I've got a couple, but I don't think they would fit... (they are quite big.)
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Do you mean something like THESE 128 Mb modules (http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300134942129) :-?
They are not flat but they have no problem fitting a BPPC as you can clearly see on the pictures :lol: (though they are a bit dated to be honest)
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how about here (http://www.oempcworld.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=72pin)?
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I don't think so, Effy, as they are clearly stated to be 60ns.
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True, but the only 50ns 128 Mb EDO modules I have found so far appear to be 144 pins instead of 72 pins. It´s confusing that they call that EDO too :madashell:
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As I say, I have a pair of 72-pin 50ns RAM modules, HP branded, from a server. They are old, and big - lots of chips, double-sided, and tall. I don't think they will fit...
Your modules might be the best option, Effy.
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@Bamiga2002
They are pretty rare. Do you have any valid information that 50ns SIMMs works faster than 60ns ones on a BPPC or you just assume that they do?
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I have never seen those 50 ns modules in 128 Mb though I have noticed in the past that my ex-Microbotics 1230XA had an option to use 50 ns modules. Maybe they can be found in 32 Mb, never searched for that I think ...
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Which do BliZZard cards take 2k or 4k refresh SIMMs?
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Forgive me my lack of knowledge but what does it mean and what is the difference between 2k and 4k ??? :-?
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Be careful with old Server SIMMs - some are 3.3v and could damage your Amiga accelerator.
Always check that the SIMM can be used at 5v.
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Effy wrote:
Forgive me my lack of knowledge but what does it mean and what is the difference between 2k and 4k ??? :-?
I think that would be the page sizes for Fast Page Mode (FPM) simms, i.e. 36-bit modules, rather than 32-bit. They are compatible with some expansion cards and MMUs.
And, edit: Why do you think there are 72-pins on a standard simm?
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TjLaZer wrote:
Which do BliZZard cards take 2k or 4k refresh SIMMs?
I believe that they could use either, but 2k page size would be default (if using suitable ram).
At the moment my Blizzard MkIV 68030 50MHz card (which does have a working mmu on the chip) has a normal 32-bit 60ns simm, and works fine.
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Hello. Looking for two 64MB or 128MB 50ns SIMMs (one-sided or flat 2-sided to fit a BPPC).
A month ago I bought a load of simms (pimping out my A2632) and at the same time stuck a 128meg 72 pin simm in, when it turned up its a single sided 50ns gold plate beauty.
The down side is it was advertised as 60ns standard but it may be worth e-mailing the company to see.
I got them from aememory (http://www.aememory.co.uk/EDO-FPM-memory.html)
Best of all it was only £13.99, free postage.
The 32 meg simms were good too. (60ns though)
I had a 50ns 64meg simm for a while, ended up giving it to a guy at LAG.
Anyhow when I get home I will sort the simm out and take a pic so you can see what its like.
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I can confirm that effy's simms work on the bppc. I have 2 of them.. No problems.
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I've got some 50nS EDO 64MB SIMMs here - standard height, double-sided. They're yours if you have £30 spare. :)
I've never been able to get them to work, but only because none of my accelerators support them - they just appear as 16MB modules in everything I've tried them in. I've never tried them in anything newer than an 030 accelerator, a CS-PPC (which doesn't support 64MB modules, unlike BlizzardPPCs) and a P200 PC.
I have no idea if they'll physically fit, but they're the same size and shape as any double sided 8MB or 32MB SIMM I've seen.
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I do can tell that the first two 128 Mb modules I ever had bought came from a HP server model 9000. Who cares where they came from, they were 128 Mb EDO modules 72 pins, that´s all I needed to know, not ? :-o Eh, major bummer :lol:
I tried it in my untuned Blizzard PPC, started with one module, plugged it in and turned on the computer ... nothing happened during the first two secs ... then I noticed the smoke and the smell of something burning :idea: It was then that I realized something was going wrong :lol: Need I to say that my card and A1200 needed some heavy repairing :-? Need I to say that I never bought any of those modules again :-?
AmigaKit : I know that Amiga cards need 5V modules and that 3,3V can damgage something but I have seen auctions of a greek guy selling 128 Mb modules with 3,3V that appear to work on A1200 cards, at least according to him. Never tried on of those as I prefer not to toast any of my cards again :lol:
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I have a MBX1230xa and I've buyed a 128Mb SIMM from Effy last year. It came from Belgic to Brazil in FIVE (5!) days.
Works like a charm in my "humble" 1200D (who will become a 1200T in a couple of weeks)...:-D
I fix my MediTator passtrough this very day! Hooorra! :cheers:
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This may sound dangerous but when you set the speed of the Microbotics 1230XA to 50 ns and use a 60 ns module, would that mean that you would toast the module or that you would have to use a heatsink for the module ??? :-?
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First of all, thanks for the replys :). Now should i get non-parity or parity simms? FPM or EDO? What's the difference?
@Oli_hd:
Was the 128mb memory you referred to AE15-128EDO?
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I find ignoring a much more irritating e-behavior than spamming, flooding or flamming. Seriously.
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Bamiga2002 wrote:
First of all, thanks for the replys :). Now should i get non-parity or parity simms? FPM or EDO? What's the difference?
@Oli_hd:
Was the 128mb memory you referred to AE15-128EDO?
Prefer FPM, without parity. If you find EDO with NO parity and your accel acepts it, run for it!
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@AmigaMance:
I did read your post. I think 50ns is faster than 60ns, don't you?
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@Oli_hd: Was the 128mb memory you referred to AE15-128EDO?
Hi, Yep thats the one.
Sorry I havent got around to taking a photo yet, I did sort the Simm out though and double checked, its double sided but its using the thinest chips (TSSOP like) which are only about 1.5mm tall tops.
On a side note I was going through my simm drawer and found most of my old old old 30pin simms are 60ns and I even have a small 72pin simm with -50 marked.. :)
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Hmm sorry for the delay in posting these pics.. things have kinda got in the way a bit. :)
Ok, get ready for a photo explosion
The whole simm (Earthquake, honest.) (http://www.lichfieldelectronics.co.uk/ram/ram.jpg)
Ram chip (one of eight) showing the -5 speed grade (http://www.lichfieldelectronics.co.uk/ram/ram-50ns.jpg)
Pic of how thin the simm is. (http://www.lichfieldelectronics.co.uk/ram/thinram.jpg)
Now I havent actually got anything to test the 50ns speed rating.. it could be that the chips are mislabled but still, cheap cheap cheap :)
edit---
Hmm Ive just stuck a multimeter on the Simm to check what its set up as (60ns or 50) and its been set to 60ns so I guess they are either using chips that failed the 50ns testing or they got to many returns from computers that didnt understand the 50ns timing. :-/
(another strange thing is the simm is set at 2/32meg... (pin 68 is ground and 67 is nc)
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Thanks very much for the pics, these should fit a BPPC just fine :D.
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If the chips say -5 then they should be rated to run at 50ns speeds - but that is not the same thing as saying that the whole module can operate that fast. It does, however, mean that it will not be the chips that are the restriction.
How "tall" are the modules? (not "thick" as shown in pic 3.)
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How "tall" are the modules?
31mm from top to bottom, about 22mm above the centre of the locking hole (the hole drilled in the simm)
but that is not the same thing as saying that the whole module can operate that fast. It does, however, mean that it will not be the chips that are the restriction.
The simm is made up from 16 chips, all rated at 50ns, there are no other components on the board (apart from surface mounted capacitors) but yeah, it could still be a 60ns simm
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Bumping this topic here :). I did some testing with different oscillators on my BPPC (normally 68060:50Mhz/PPC:60Mhz*4=240Mhz):
68060:66Mhz - tried to boot up and managed to load BlizKick, but at next boot stayed in an infinite boot loop for awhile, after which refused to boot at all. 3-finger salute doesn't help.
68060:60Mhz - seems to work steady with this speed. boots up and works fine.
PPC:66Mhz*4=264Mhz - PPC programs start but many times come the powerpc exceptions and the miggy hangs (mouse won't work). Not a good setting to use.
PPC:64Mhz*4=256Mhz - PPC programs start and...seem to work just fine! I'm using this now and looks good this far.
I thouht why some people seem to be able to clock their boards safely @66Mhz, still in my setup things crash and do not work if i set either the 68060 or PPC to 66Mhz bus speed. I didn't test the 68060 with 64Mhz (too lazy). But i think the overall stability comes from the 68060 and it's stability, so i won't up it's speed any further from 60Mhz (it's fast enough with that anyway :-)).
BUT, i also think the RAM quality/speed is to blame for not being able to run either the 68060 or PPC at 66Mhz. Next i'm going to hunt down some quality SIMMs that can cope with higher oscillator speeds. And YES, i have taken care of proper cooling on both 68060 and PPC :-).
Any experiences or solutions you lot might have as for what memory should work properly here?
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Good memory is always the key to overclocking, make sure your simms are 50ns, even if the chips say 50ns check the ident pins to see if they are telling the computer they are 50 or 60ns!
Other than that, what revision of 060 are you running? The current one is the fastest. (with the 71E41J mask)
Thats basically it for overclocking except stability is helped by upgrading the cooling/monitoring the temperatures.
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WhichAmiga says:
MC68060 (rev 5)
PPC (rev 2.1) - it finds my 64Mhz oscillator at 63Mhz though :-)
My BPPC board is version 0.
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Has anyone tried to use the CPU060 program that comes with Phase5 accelerators to change the WAIT_STATES of the RAM controller to increase stability at higher clock rates?
Of course this potentially has the ability to make the system run slower, but it would be good to test.
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I have mine set as follows
68kwrite waitstate
68kread nowaitstate
ppcwrite nowaitstate
ppcread nowaitstate
If I try setting 68Kwrite to "nowaitstate" the system will crash midway through booting. I'm not sure why this is..?
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stopthegop wrote:
--zip--
If I try setting 68Kwrite to "nowaitstate" the system will crash midway through booting. I'm not sure why this is..?
Because the RAM isn't fast enough. Simple, huh?
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@Oli_hd
Checked closer the 68060 revision, it's 01G65E.
@alexh
Yep, what's the use of WAIT_STATES if they slow things down :).
@stopthegop
Is there a reason for you using the CPU060 command (are you?), because you can set the RAM speeds in the BPPC-bootmenu?
I'm wondering what should be the middle route in options considering speed performance between overclocking and using RAM waitstates & preloads? If i overclock, in some point i have to slow down the RAM, so what's the use then? Btw. i have only activated PPC-precharges in the BPPC-bootmenu.
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Bamiga2002 wrote:
@alexh
Yep, what's the use of WAIT_STATES if they slow things down :).
In the situation where the CPU runs faster, the RAM runs slightly slower. Total system speed can be faster.
Dont forget the 060 will burst load it's caches and then run from cache at CPU speed. Some routines are optimised to fit entirely within the cache.
It's give and take, you'll just have to have a try.
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@alexh
Maybe i'll test some more with the oscillators, fiddling with the waitstates etc. :-)
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Bumping this thread here! :-)
I just ordered 2 pieces of 128mb SIMM-modules from Aememory, they are 60ns but no-go searching for 50ns 128mb ones. But i need the memory. And maybe i'll give up the overclocking if the memory can't cope...
I have to test and see :-P
Cheers!
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see this tread about 50ns simms & Blizzard PPC (BETA)
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37475