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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Mallette on July 15, 2007, 12:49:09 PM
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Fresh from my success in getting the A4000D part of SimStation living again, I now turn to getting it up to snuff. I've figured out on my own that the 3.0 Dos I have on it is not native. Should it be 3.1 or 3.5? Does 3.9 work without any hardware changes and should I go straight there rather than load 3.5?
Starting days off and that means QUALITY time with my miggy...
Dave
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4000s were shipped with 3.0 originally.
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Hmmm....
My assumption was based on the lack of 24bit and other extended resolutions. Mine booted to 640X400 (Yuck) and the only (asided from PAL) larger desktops were like 1280X400...a rather strange size.
I'd like something around 800X600 or 1024X768 for a variety of productivity reasons, and certainly 24bit support.
Perhaps I misunderstand the A4000 features?
Dave
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I'd like something around 800X600 or 1024X768 for a variety of productivity reasons, and certainly 24bit support.
To use bonafide 24-bit modes in 1024x768 you are going to need a graphics card. The native hardware isn't really capable of anything beyond 8 bits per pixel*
*note that this doesn't restrict you to 256 colours, since HAM8 mode and clever modifications thereof can reproduce much greater apparent colour depth, but said modes aren't really useful beyond picture viewing applications and selected art packages.
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As you probably know, part of the OS in Amiga usually is in the Kickstart ROM (some system libraries etc.). With UAE you have some kick.rom image instead, usually the version can be identified by it's filename. You can probably check the version from early start-up menu too and of course from the chips directly if they still have some stickers on them (Kickstart information (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=1459) at TBBOAH (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/))
If you have Kickstart 3.0 chips on your A4000, easiest route would be using Workbench 3.0 (AmigaOS3.0) with it. However if you have Kickstart 3.1 chips in it, you can use without too much hassle AmigaOS3.1, 3.5 or 3.9.
Combining those and with some startup utilities depending on different versions of system libraries could very well been the reason for that "invalid version" issue you had some time ago.
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Mallette wrote:
Hmmm....
My assumption was based on the lack of 24bit and other extended resolutions. Mine booted to 640X400 (Yuck) and the only (asided from PAL) larger desktops were like 1280X400...a rather strange size.
I'd like something around 800X600 or 1024X768 for a variety of productivity reasons, and certainly 24bit support.
Perhaps I misunderstand the A4000 features?
Dave
Then you need a graphicscard my friend
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It's a learning experience...
I did once have an Opalvision card for a 2000 that worked nicely.
I presume such things are only available through Ebay, etc?
Any suggestions?
Anyway, I certainly misunderstood the changes to the 4000 series...I thought 24bit was one of them.
So how does it go up to 1280X400 without supporting anything "in between"?
Dave
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I think you overestimated the 4000. Look at what ECS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Chip_Set) can do and what AGA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Graphics_Architecture) can improve on that.
So no 24bit 800x600 screens, you need graphics card for that. Look here (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/) at what hardware was made for the Amiga.
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Thanks, Flashlab. I love a good response that provides concise info.
So, I am up to speed. Thinking back, I had, at one point or the other, a Toaster, a HAM-E (loved that "glow" cycle mode), and an Opalvision (not listed on the graphics card site...but a really great card with an excellent 24 bit paint program).
Anyway, most of my work will be 2Danims for video use, so it is really only desktop work area that I'll be missing. 256 colors is more than adequate for my needs.
However, I might consider a 24bit card once I see just how much time I wind up spending on the miggy. I still have Image Master (had some nice features) LightWave 3D, and a few other nice progs in their final versions I might want to revisit.
Thanks,
Dave
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quenthal:
I see where you are coming from, the the "invalid resident library" message suddenly appeared on the ORIGINAL SimStation boot disk to which I've made no changes.
Something else went south there and I've got to figure it out...
Dave
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You're welcome!
The Opalvision is listed on the Amiga Hardware site. It's under non-RTG cards. To have Workbench work in 24bit colours you need RTG (Picasso96 (P96) or Cybergraphics (CGX)). All cards that are supported in a RTG package are listed unhder the RTG graphics cards.
A graphics card will not only give more colours and higher resolutions but also more speed. I have such a card and I can't go back no more!
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So how does it go up to 1280X400 without supporting anything "in between"?
Actually, there are plenty of modes you can dream up inbetween, depending on which one of your Devs/Monitors drivers you start with and how you choose to tweak your overscan settings. People have used tools like MonED to create drivers for 1024x768 (or close) but they tend to be for specific monitors and even then aren't guarenteed not to harm your monitor :-/
As for the strange resolutions like 1280x400, that's pretty normal for the amiga and goes back to the somewhat strange notion of having separate horizontal and vertical resolutions. Back in the OCS day, you had "lores" which was 320 pixels wide, "hires" which was 640 pixels wide. Either could be displayed as "normal" (200 lines for NTSC, 256 for PAL) or "laced" (400/512 lines, interlaced).
Normal "hires", with it's perculiar thin rectangular pixel aspect was generally used for the desktop, since interlaced modes generally caused peoples eyes to melt.
ECS added "super hires", which doubled the horizontal resolution again. In conjunction with interlace, it gives the same aspect ratio as normal hires but with four times the area visible.
Available graphics cards use chipsets that that have the more familiar square 4:3 aspect ratio.
The good news is that there are plenty of different graphics cards available for your 4000, from old Z2 cards (not recommended), Z3 capable cards (the Picasso IV, though old, is highly regarded) up to PCI cards with a suitable PCI board.
The bad news is that such solutions can end up costing a bit. The PIV is out of production so they tend to fetch pretty high prices on eBay. You can get compatible PCI cards for a lot less but then you have to get the PCI adapter itself and they can go for a bit.
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I have seen Picasso 96 as software on the WinUAE software, but not looked at it...I assume it is a driver for graphics cards?
So what is the best price/performance card that is reasonably available?
dave
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Thanks, Karlos...another bit of education.
I've enough to ask this: So why no 640X400 non-interlace? Seems this should be within the technology's capabilities.
Dave
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Mallette wrote:
Thanks, Karlos...another bit of education.
I've enough to ask this: So why no 640X400 non-interlace? Seems this should be within the technology's capabilities.
Dave
It is. 640x400 non interlace is provided by the DblNTSC monitor driver introduced with OS 3.x / AGA.
Alas the DblNTSC / DblPAL modes are not quite VGA scan rate and so not all VGA monitors will display them.
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Mallette wrote:
I have seen Picasso 96 as software on the WinUAE software, but not looked at it...I assume it is a driver for graphics cards?
Pretty much. Picasso96 is a Retargettable Graphics (RTG) driver layer that supports many graphics cards, allowing OS friendly software to run on your graphics card.
Cybergraphics is another such system, albeit commercial.
Since both systems provide overlapping services, the question of which to choose depends on which hardware you go for (especially if you go for a PCI based solution), since neither supports the full range of PCI solutions available.
So what is the best price/performance card that is reasonably available?
dave
I'd have to let an A4000 owner answer that one :-)
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So what is the best price/performance card that is reasonably available?
I'd go for a card with buildin monitor switcher, like the CyberVision64 or a PicassoII. If you want to use a modern monitor that can't display 15 Hz screens, I'd go for a Picasso IV which has a scandoubler as well, or get a scandoubler to suit the before mentioned cards in case a Picasso IV is out of the question.
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Definitely be using 19" LCD. Much less makes me go blind...
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So how do I ID the ROM version? I don't have the machine in front of me (haven't left work yet) but I looked at WinUAE and neither "About" nor system config indicated the ROM version in 3.0, 3.1 or whatever fashion...all 2 digit/2 decimal place numbers with no obvious correlation.
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Mallette wrote:
So how do I ID the ROM version? I don't have the machine in front of me (haven't left work yet) but I looked at WinUAE and neither "About" nor system config indicated the ROM version in 3.0, 3.1 or whatever fashion...all 2 digit/2 decimal place numbers with no obvious correlation.
ROM 3.1 is v. 40.68
if it's lower than that you have 3.0 rom's in your A4000
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Check the About menu in Workbench. If it says 40.68 you've got 3.1. If it's lower 3.0.
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Thank you kindly...
Dave
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So it turns out I have an IV24 board. I believe it is GVP. Anybody know what can be done with it? I copied the fye.library to the current system and was able to set a 24 bit mode, but there where no further screen sizes I've found yet. There is a help icon, but either the path is bad or it was not loaded.
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Look here (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=291)
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@ Mallette,
Your GVP IV24 is a video switcher, frame buffer, effects display device that also has the added advantage of being able to be used as a "flicker fixer" in the A2000. I think there was a less produced (more rare) version for the A4000 that could work with the AGA display modes and color depth.
Do you also have the "break-out" box that works with it?
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Amigadave, Flashlab:
Thanks. If I have the breakout box, it is buried in SimStation. I really need to get some pix up.
SimStation cost nearly 10,000.00 to build. Lots of goodies in there...
Dave
PS: Haven't really examined it, but I do have a breakout box. Lots of BNC connectors, etc. It is used for the LaserDisc overlay system. All of this still works fine if I can get the boot issues resolved.