Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: DavidF215 on June 25, 2003, 01:01:46 AM
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New computer chips are on the horizon. AmigaOS and/or MorphOS should adopt such new technologies quickly. Silicon is old and dated. New technologies should be adapted by Amiga and Pegasos hardware vendors in development of new products. Amiga revolutionized computing in 1985, Amiga should do it again using chip technologies that are measured in THz and in real time computing speeds.
Supportive Links:
Measuring in THz (http://www.rpi.edu/dept/research/it_abstract1.html)
Real time computing--fast (http://technology.nzoom.com/technology_detail/0,1608,132120-113-116,00.html)
Thoughts? Ideas?
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And the money comes from, where?
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bloodline wrote:
And the money comes from, where?
Investors. Redirecting internal resources. Partnerships.
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Well, the Amiga wasn't really vastly technically superior
in cpu speed at the time. What is important is how you take
advantage of the hardware you have. The Amiga did more with 7Mhz
68k than anyone else. I get the same feeling from MorphOS on
a G3 600, it's incredibly fast and outperforms anything else on
a similar or even faster cpus. Software and OS efficiency can
outpeform any small advantages processor upgrades give in
general terms...
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Unfortunately, Amiga hardware development in modern times, appears pathetic at best. Lack of this form of development will be its downfall [again]. AmigaOne has disapeared in my eyes. As interesting as Pegasos is, it isnt an Amiga and I havent heard of it running AmigaOS for anyone [ maybe you could correct me? ].
Don't get me wrong: I strongly believe in Amigas, but I think it needs pointing out that more development is needed.
Development is expensive - and with hardware, thats the end to it. But, for AmigaOS, development costs could be vastly reduced by introducing a policy of OpenSource. OK, this would mean the software is available for free, for download. But this doesnt necessarily mean that money cant be made by the developing company. For example, charging for OEM (i.e. Original Equipment Manufacturer - i.e. with new computers) Licenses that come with 90 days support, say, would probably produce just as much money. Afterall, how many people trully buy OS Licenses separate from system purchases?
Development is key; as is time to release. Amiga Inc doesnt seem under pressure, but it should be - its future depends on it.
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Amiga Inc will never get the doe within a reasonable timeframe. And because of the events on the economics front in recent years, you can forget about investors.
realstar: cpu performance have little to do with the actual feel of stuff is really moving. Look at Windows f.ex. Timing problems and a total lack of hardware utilization makes the OS look like a slug when running on anything below a couple of gigahertz. My 50MHz A1200 sometimes feels more responsive than my x86. Especially when multitasking is killed during cd-rom spin-up. I suspect Windows sluggyness depends on a single hardware issue; no video timing resources, no responsive feel.
Perhaps the money and effort is better spent adding some kind of gadget that feeds back the video timing from the SVGA plug (or whatever interface) back to the mobo. Mostly to exclude the gfx board manufacturers from having an opinion about it.
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It is a pity for Amiga, but your right about the financial troubles.
Pitching at only desktops, at the moment, might not be helping. Perhaps, developing the hardware together with a partner company to produce a Games Console might be a new market - and my only require slight modifications to hardware being used in the AmigaOne.
Such partnering companies could be Nintendo, Sega (who seem equally as desperate) or Sony. To be honest, only Sega appear to be in a scenario that would suit partnership with Amiga.
Set top boxes, TiVo and other embedded systems might also provide a more enticing market. Desktops are difficult in today's computer industry - but Development Desktops to assist development with Embedded Systems, could also be another product. Plus, with emphasis on 'development', these could be sold for more $/£ than home users could/would pay.
I personally prefer to see advances in hardware than software.
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Here's an idea, badly explained and badly thought out, but I like it :)
Today, things are flat... 2-dimensional.
I don't really know how to explain this thought without gesticulating wildly but I'll try ...
Before Amiga most if not all computers worked in "serial" and the cpu did more or less everything in the system. The amiga came, and it worked in "parallel" with each part of the system doing its job, synchronized with the others. Today, most systems if not all operate sort of somewhere in-between, still with the cpu doing most of the work, but more efficient with other parts doing their own stuff. The next logical step would (in my mind at least) be a 3-dimensional design, not only for the chips, but the entire computer.
Imagine a spherical or cube shaped "motherboard" with signal paths running in all 3 dimensions to all parts of the system. Much like a Rubik's Cube, I suppose, where each unit is connected to the others and every layer doing its own job and communicating with the others. Did that make sense?
It would probably be ridiculously difficult and expensive to design, but I like toying with the Idea. I'll try to learn English a little better, so I can explain better later :-P
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It would be great to see newer and faster chips.
But to most Amiga people the newer boards are a huge
speed increase. I am looking forward to OS 4.0
If Amiga people spent half as much as the average Microsoft
customer we would be thriving.
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Obviously the G5 Mac announcements have started another round of yap. Here's an interesting little tidbit too, from a company with obvious ties to a project in this neighborhood:
"Terra Soft Offers Apple G5s Prepared For Yellow Dog Linux" (http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/news/2003-06-24.shtml)
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If only Terra Soft offered AmigaOnes prepared with Yellow Dog Linux... ...we might get a larger following - not to mention better software, like OpenOffice.org (OOo).
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The problem from the AmigaOS hardware side is that it relies on one firm for both the northbridge and the motherboard design. For the moment there are no problems.. But what about the future?
There are a lot of "what if's" that could pop up in the future, and for the moment (and who knows how far beyond) there's no backup plan. (It's not like the PPC market had much going for it before, either.) If something should happen at/to Mai, Eyetech really don't have anywhere else to go.
Eyetech surely will never swallow their pride and go with a (GASP) Genesi product.
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Samuar wrote:
If only Terra Soft offered AmigaOnes prepared with Yellow Dog Linux... ...we might get a larger following - not to mention better software, like OpenOffice.org (OOo).
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Somehow I think you don't know, what a joke you just made .....
A bit recap:
The "A1" is the consumer version of MAI's evaluation-board, called TeronPX.
(plus the dongle and "the name").
Last year Terrasoft wanted to sell just the same boards (bought directly from MAI offcourse)
under the name Boxer, but for some unknown and highly speculated reason they pulled out
of it. It is quite clear that they saw no market for it, but if that was due to
a)delievery probs
b)bugs in the chipset
c)them being unable to make a descent calculation
d)knowing/guessing what Apple would over now
or something different is unknown.
But comparing the price between the smallest Mac and a full A1-system, and comparing that
to the gigantic performace/feature gap, makes it quite clear that there is no market.
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Investors. Redirecting internal resources. Partnerships.
Throw in some Enron-style accounting and MAYBE... :-)
Amiga hardware isn't going to be doing any performance leapfrogging of anything up-to-date for quite a while yet.
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The desktop arena seems a difficult one to enter, for getting non-amiga community members to purchase the products. Embedded systems, on the other hand, would be a very sneaky way of getting amiga products into the hands of the masses...
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Samuar wrote:
If only Terra Soft offered AmigaOnes prepared with Yellow Dog Linux... ...we might get a larger following - not to mention better software, like OpenOffice.org (OOo).
Serious comments please!
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DavidF215 wrote:
New computer chips are on the horizon. AmigaOS and/or MorphOS should adopt such new technologies quickly.
The "Amiga hardware" concept is long dead, even if some distribution policies aren't adapted to reality.
AmigaOS cannot, as in "it's not allowed to", adopt new technologies, unless a "licensed" hardware vendor appears and applies for a bundling/dongling/blahblah license for the hardware in question.
Valid technical and commercial issues can only be considered second hand, after the licensing requirement is fulfilled (which it will never be, not by anybody significant).
Regarding MorphOS, to me it seems to be marketed in an Apple-ish/Mac-ish way, i.e. they have their own hardware and hardware development, and this is what likely will be the main money maker. The OS looks like "just a bonus" (nothing derogatory implied) so to speak, among the other compatible OSes.
Amiga revolutionized computing in 1985, Amiga should do it again using chip technologies that are measured in THz and in real time computing speeds.
The Amiga is dead. It felt sad when that fact was established in the early nineties. Today, it's a good thing IMO. Now I think it's important to leave as many doors open as possible to allow AmigaOS to take advantage of hardware development "elsewhere". The companies making AmigaOS and selling AmigaOS IP licenses, respectively, does not have any hardware of their own, nor any control over development etc. of third party hardware.
Get porting, let others do drivers too if they wish, and forget about the "Amiga hardware" silliness (http://amigapop.8bit.co.uk)! :)
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Samuar wrote:
If only Terra Soft offered AmigaOnes prepared with Yellow Dog Linux... ...we might get a larger following - not to mention better software, like OpenOffice.org (OOo).
Huh?
See Kronos' comment. Terrasoft scrapped their Teron plans for the time being, after one week of in-house testing.
And it couldn't mean a larger AmigaOS userbase. Terons are only allowed to run AmigaOS if they're sold as "AmigaOnes", dongled and bundled with AmigaOS from a "licensed" dealer.
One hardware market for the exact same hardware split into two, for no good reason at all.