Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: weirdami on June 21, 2007, 05:01:22 AM
-
So, I've been using up my brain to figure out how there is even any possible way for there to be a new kind of computer, like how Amiga was when it first came out. Pretty much, the only thing I can think of is that the only new kinds of "computer" that have come out lately are games machines (consoles). There is no hardware difference between a windows box and macintosh box anymore, so the only new thing coming out in the personal computer arena are OS's. So, really, if people want new "Amiga" hardware, the only way I can think of is for AI to become a console maker and rock the super graphics game house to the ground, as it were. :-) Someone would just need to come out with an add-on to make the games machine be a home computer dealy for those people that want to do that sort of thing.
-
HEHE yeah Mac sold out didn't they, now all the difference is OSX Tiger or what ever and honestly I like Vista Enterprise just as much as Tiger (Yes I have both) so really there to me isn't much of a difference except for price, Mac is still damn expensive...Funny huh.
-
Well, even before the Intel switch, the only difference from a windows box was the PPC chip. Macintosh stopped being different, really, once you could buy peripherals without buying mac specific ones.
-
HEHE yeah Mac sold out didn't they, now all the difference is OSX Tiger or what ever and honestly I like Vista Enterprise just as much as Tiger (Yes I have both) so really there to me isn't much of a difference except for price, Mac is still damn expensive...Funny huh.
Yes Apple is able to trade on the "anti-windows" sentiment and that coupled with "stylish" hardware and clever marketing means they can charge more for their product. However, you must remember that Apple have been around for a long time and their hardware has always been expensive. They are still around though, unlike Commodore!
TrevorDick
-
If Ainc ever ventured into consoles the results would be something like the the Infinium/Phantom rort.
http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/true-infinium-stories-the-73-million-phantom.ars
The computer market is all stitched up and so are consoles, anyone hoping to do anything meaningful in these markets with (non free) alternatives had better bring a billion dollar cheque book and a LOT of marketing clout.
-
@TrevorDick --- Check www.commodoreworld.com and you will find Commodore is around and about to start releasing PC's dedicated to Gaming
-
That might have been true with xbox, but the ps2, xbox 360 and ps3 all use some kind of custom like chipset.
All of these could have been great in my opinion if they came with a keyboard, mouse and was a open architecture. The main reason why consoles suck today is because they are completely closed, while the amiga was completely open for anyone to develop on.
-
foleyjo wrote:
@TrevorDick --- Check www.commodoreworld.com and you will find Commodore is around and about to start releasing PC's dedicated to Gaming
But what is special about them?? It is just a completely standard pc just that it has a commodore sticker on them. I bet they even use a motherboard from a manufactor like asus, msi, abit or similar.
-
@foleyjo
Check www.commodoreworld.com and you will find Commodore is around and about to start releasing PC's dedicated to Gaming
Yes I know about Commodore gaming. I visited them in the Netherlands recently. The are making very high specced gaming PC's with very "cool" case designs and motifs. I quite like their retro "Commodore" case design. I was referring Commodore Inc company of the PET, VIC20, C64 and Amiga fame.
-
I think it would be a wasted effort to try to come up with a new fully custom computer, but what I think could work is a fully open graphics card, or full open A/V card, which works on standard buses.
Sure, there are open drivers out there, but with the hardware DRM built into Windows Vista those drivers will soon be history. Once all hardware is thoroughly DRM'd you can pretty much forget about innovation in graphics hardware as industry, the true customer market for Vista, will favor the lowest common denominator.
As far as a games machine goes, what about the GP2X? It's new, and it's open to development. I wonder what the Amiga community would think of a GP2X derivative in an all-in-one case with keyboard and mouse that connected to a television.
-
@trev--It may have different owners now but its still Commodore as long as its got the Chicken Head logo. Commodore never went away it just got lost and now some kind owners are bringing it back.
From what you said we could claim Codemasters is no longer around because its not the same company that gave us classics like Dizzy.
Im a big Chicken Head fan you may have guessed :lol:
As for GP2X the handhelds scene reminds me so much of the Amiga scene. It would be great if there was a way to run Amiga software on it without the aid of UAE.
Like WHDLOAD for GP2X.
Prob just a dream
*Just realised it may sound like im trying to start an argument. That is not the case. I just waited years not giving up hope that Commodre would one say be back and now that they are I dont want anyone to spoil it for me**
-
@foleyjo
Just realised it may sound like im trying to start an argument. That is not the case. I just waited years not giving up hope that Commodre would one say be back and now that they are I dont want anyone to spoil it for me
No offence taken. :-) I am also a Commodore fan and collect Commodore 8-bit and 32-bit machines and their derivatives. Commodore (mainly in Europe) sold a lot of Commodore branded PC's to their business customers. It's just that IMHO Commodore will forever be associated with the PET/64 & Amiga and not the PC.
However, I wish the new Commodore every success and I will eventually buy one of their super PC based games machines with a Retro C64 design case.
TrevorDick
-
ohh no not this again! good luck... and don't forget "ignorance is bliss".
-
I totally agree about the custom chipset. As I have said years ago, custom chips is the only way to go if you want to be different from al the others.
Using a NVidia GPU will not create an Amiga that can do more than any WindowsBox, only special 'better than the rest' hardware will.
And yes, I still think an Amiga comeback is TECHNICALLY possible. Today is no different from the situation Jay Miner was in 20 years ago, only further up the road.
Some people say, development is to an end, nothing to be done anymore. That's not true, that's never true.
The power of Amiga should be the mix of a gameconsole and 'office' capabilities. As it was 20 years ago.
-
This is honestly the ONLY logical way I could see the Amiga making a comeback. We have PC's, which is market maxed out, commodity hardware elcheapo land.
We have game consoles, which are subsidized, and sold below cost to make up money later on hardware and accessories.
Make an "Amiga" kickass games console (Granted, the logisitics of such a thing is well beyond anyone associated with amiga right now), then also let on that its a "Sweet" office / home computer as well.
Really what made the Amiga the first time around. Selling it purely as a pc replacement wont fly these days. It has to have that "Special" niche, and for the amiga it always was graphics and sound. Why not make it those again, except TOP notch Gaming graphics and sound!
-
wow...that's exacly what Commodore used to do back when they sold the amiga.... see it worked for them!
thing is back then the amiga was more advanced that other sulutions, nowadasy the amiga is weak at games, sound and such....
BTW the wii is not subsidized.
-
Amigas used to be on top in terms of bang for buck, multimedia performance, OS stability, and nice form factor.
Since then, Amiga's competitors have invested billions in these areas, making it extremely hard for any company without similar means to beat them at their own game.
I still think there's room for a 3rd party in the PC market, though. Some areas of innovation that are in the Amiga spirit and might work for a smaller company could be a ray-tracing GPU, tightly integrated and easy to use OS/Apps (like iPhone), interesting user input devices like a touch-screen keyboard or wacom tablet, and built-in tools for easy graphical application development.
Edit: Condensed for the modern reader.
-
dude just write a book why not?
-
Merax wrote:
I still think there's room for a 3rd party in the PC market, though. Some areas of innovation that are in the Amiga spirit and might work for a smaller company could be a ray-tracing GPU,
Apparently nVidia is going that very thing.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_computing_solutions.html
500 gigaflops on the desktop... sheesh!
-
If you want to play a new game that takes advantage of the newest hardware, then there's never going to be an alternative to the PC or big consoles (Sony,MS,Nintendo). By the time Amiga can come up with anything these days, it's already been superceded years ago by all the big companies.
I think Amiga people should stop trying to out-do the PC and consoles at what they're built for, and focus on making the Amiga do what it's best at. What makes people like 3D games so much anyway, I preferred playing games back when they were 2D and that's what Amigas did best.
And Amigas always encouraged creativity. When you use an Amiga, it's fun, there are lots of things to do and things to make. Market to the creativity market perhaps, not the games market.
-
Let's look at Nintendo, shall we? They tried to play the hardware game (N64, GameCube) for ten years, and lost. Then they came out with...
Wii. Not a great machine by the paper specs, but it changes the way you think about games by immersing you on a different level. I have only played it a couple of times and the most banal of games (Bowling, tennis, etc.) seemed like new experiences. This is the kind of thing that changes markets. That is what Amiga needs. A change in market focus.
If Amiga can make some shift in gameplay happen, great! But they also need good developers. The coolest OS and the slickest hardware are nothing without developers. Developers like SDK's. They don't like banging the hardware from the get-go because it's HARD. There is no SDK for Amiga, at least not an easily accessible one.
I agree with the idea of going for the creative market. Build the media features of the OS; make it physically able to connect to ANYTHING multimedia related; make it sort of a god box for media creation. The chips to do this are not so expensive anymore.
Oh, and make it able to boot windows and OSX. (in other words, to whomever wins the suit, PORT THE FRIGGIN OS TO x86 already!!!) If people can boot the Amiga side quicker than the Windows or Mac side, they will want to use that instead, for simple tasks like checking e-mail and google mapping. People don't think about how powerful the OS is, they just want to get working quicker. As a help desk tech I constantly heard people ask "when are we gonna get faster computers? This one takes ten minutes to boot in the morning!" AmigaOS can shine here, giving people faster access to the tools they need.