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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: motorollin on June 09, 2007, 11:20:29 AM

Title: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 09, 2007, 11:20:29 AM
In a recent thread about Shapeshifter, it was mentioned that Mac OS 8.1 can be persuaded to boot under emulation. Please could someone who has got this working post their Shapeshifter configuration (including ROM details if possible)? I can't get to work. I booted from the Starter image from Emaculation and installed 8.1 inside a hardfile from my original 8.1 CD. The emulator starts to boot 8.1 then the Amiga reboots. I had the same problem on my A1200 and now my A4000. I also tried installing 8.0 first, which worked, but then the same thing happened when I upgraded it to 8.1.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Seiya on June 09, 2007, 11:51:04 AM
MacOS 8.1 has some problem with bb2 3.9 romupdate..
try to disable it when you want to use macos8.1

at least it is a chance :)
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Flashlab on June 09, 2007, 12:23:20 PM
Never got 8.1 working with ShapeShifter, but it does work with Fusion though...
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: starf81 on June 09, 2007, 05:22:00 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:

The emulator starts to boot 8.1 then the Amiga reboots. I had the same problem on my A1200 and now my A4000.



Same behaviour here... I thought it was just an issue on my configuration.

Any suggestion is welcome!!!

Alex
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: amigadave on June 09, 2007, 06:14:38 PM
Has anyone here used iFusion PPC and do you know what is the highest version of MacOS you can use with it?  Also what are the limitations of iFusion and what Amiga peripherals are available to the iFusion PPC Mac emulation?

Having a real MacBook, I don't know that emulating a slow Mac on my CyberStorm PPC is worth the trouble, but I might want to do it just because I bought iFusion years ago and never installed it and would like to test out how well it works.

Also there may be many old Mac programs that are entertaining and not available as Amiga programs.
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Legerdemain on June 09, 2007, 06:33:43 PM
I've had MacOS8.1 running under ShapeShifter. Installed it directly from the CD.

Today, however, I can't get it to work. I've followed some guide and installed the OS without the PPC-specific stuff but it still freezes during boot (and, also worth noting is that my installer offers nowhere near the same options as the one in the guide... there must be different versions of MacOS8.1 floating about).

I'm really interested in getting it up and running aswell, if not only to play around a bit in WarCraft II and DarkForces.
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Flashlab on June 09, 2007, 06:40:00 PM
@ Legerdemain

You don't need MacOS 8.1 for that; I use 7.5.5 and that runs both of those games fine. Best of all 7.5.5 is freely available from Apple and in different languages too!
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Legerdemain on June 09, 2007, 06:46:44 PM
Quote
You don't need MacOS 8.1 for that; I use 7.5.5 and that runs both of those games fine. Best of all 7.5.5 is freely available from Apple and in different languages too!


Are you sure? I've never ever gotten WarCraft II to run on my 060 under anything less than 8.x, since the earlier versions doesn't really support the processor (I've been told). On my older B1230 it worked perfectly on no matter what version of the OS above 7.5.5 I used.

But, even so, I still see it as a must to get MacOS8.1 up and running... it has become an obstacle to overcome. I will not give up until I get it running...

 :lol:
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Flashlab on June 09, 2007, 07:01:53 PM
Hehe I understand your 8.1 obsession! Have it myself too... and it runs on Fusion. Will try ShapeShifter later again.

To make Warcraft II run you need CFM 68k Runtime Enabler 4.0 (I think it was called) in 7.5.x. This is already built in in 7.6 and 8.x. Just google it and you can download it.
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: starf81 on June 09, 2007, 07:22:01 PM
Where can I get Fusion?
I really need MacOs 8.1 for a software that requires it as minimum os.
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: amigadave on June 09, 2007, 09:48:38 PM
Quote

starf81 wrote:
Where can I get Fusion?
I really need MacOs 8.1 for a software that requires it as minimum os.


I think Software Hut has it in stock.
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: klesterjr on June 09, 2007, 11:14:13 PM
@motorollin

I have 8.1 running here on Shapeshifter and it works fine (BB2 and all).

It's been a long time, but I do remember the install being tricky.  It seems like I may have ended up doing the actual install in Basilisk on Windows (they can use the same hard files).

My config:
Graphics: CyberGFX/P96 (8bit), Black border -- nothing else checked
Memory: 8191kb, Alloc MacRom first, Any memory
Miscl: Everything checked but write-protect ROM (greyed here) -- IMPORTANT that MacOS 8 Mode is checked

The ROM is from my LC/Performa 575 (an old '040 Mac)

Hope this helps.

-Ken
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 10, 2007, 11:59:34 AM
Thanks Ken. I replicated your Shapeshifter configuration but the same thing happens. I also tried installing 8.1 inside Basilisk II on my MacBook and then copying the hardfile to my Amiga and booting from it, but the same thing happened.

I also tried Fusion (thanks for that suggestion). I set it up the same as Shapeshifter, but nothing happens when I start the emulation. It doesn't even open the screen  :-?

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 10, 2007, 12:05:28 PM
Also I have just tried Basilisk II. This hangs when starting to boot MacOS 8.1. Only the emulator hangs in this case. If I LAMIGA-M back to Workbench, that is still responding.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 10, 2007, 12:14:03 PM
To summarise, using the same ROM file and hardfile (containing Mac OS 8.1, installed using Basilisk II on a MacBook), the following occur:

Shapeshifter: Hangs/Reboots the Amiga
Fusion: Emulation does not even start
Basilisk II (Amiga): Emulation hangs during Mac OS boot. Amiga still responds
Basilisk II (OSX): Mac OS 8.1 boots perfectly

If anyone can help me get any of the 3 Amiga emulators working, I would be very grateful.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: klesterjr on June 10, 2007, 12:59:48 PM
@motorollin

Dumb question, but you do have PrepareEmul running, right?
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 10, 2007, 01:03:20 PM
No, but I thought OS3.9BB2 meant you no longer needed PrepareEmul?

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: klesterjr on June 10, 2007, 01:20:55 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
No, but I thought OS3.9BB2 meant you no longer needed PrepareEmul?

--
moto


Hadn't heard that, but maybe . . .

Then again, I have PrepareEmul running and 8.1 works.  ;-)
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 10, 2007, 01:21:24 PM
Well anyway, I just put C:PrepareEmul at the beginning of my startup-sequence and it made no difference to Shapeshifter's behaviour.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 10, 2007, 01:21:59 PM
Ken, what's your hardware configuration?

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: klesterjr on June 10, 2007, 01:22:50 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Ken, what's your hardware configuration?

--
moto


I'm running WinUAE.
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 10, 2007, 01:27:15 PM
68k Mac emulator running inside 68k Amiga emulator? That's just perverse :lol: It's strange that I've had the same problem with my A1200 and A4000 with all of these emulators. Makes me think I'm doing something wrong :-?

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: klesterjr on June 10, 2007, 01:35:22 PM
@motorollin
Quote
68k Mac emulator running inside 68k Amiga emulator? That's just perverse :lol:


Heh, heh. :-D

I have a 3000 I could try it on -- but too much trouble (and too slow).

I can't remember if I tried it on my Pegasos or not (I probably did).  (BTW, I miss the Peg -- wish I could afford yours :-()
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Seiya on June 11, 2007, 12:37:34 AM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
68k Mac emulator running inside 68k Amiga emulator? That's just perverse :lol: It's strange that I've had the same problem with my A1200 and A4000 with all of these emulators. Makes me think I'm doing something wrong :-?

--
moto


because shapeshifter and macos 8.1 have some problem on real amiga than WinUAE.
Even on Amithlon, Shapeshifter and MacOS 8.1 runs very well and very fast!

Usually the problems with shape and 8.1 are the installed system patch.
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Seiya on June 11, 2007, 09:10:55 PM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
In a recent thread about Shapeshifter, it was mentioned that Mac OS 8.1 can be persuaded to boot under emulation. Please could someone who has got this working post their Shapeshifter configuration (including ROM details if possible)?
--
moto


here:
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9736/macoskg1.jpg

sorry, it is in italian language..
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 11, 2007, 09:35:58 PM
@Seiya
Thanks! Though I don't speak Italian it is similar enough to English that I can figure out what the field labels say :-) I'll check those settings against mine and report back.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Starrfoxx on June 11, 2007, 10:59:48 PM
I've got WinUAE, and I haven't had much luck getting Shapeshifter set up.  I think I managed to get the grey mac screen, but after that nothing.

Does anyone have any steps to get MacOS 7.5 setup through WinUAE, or is there a link somewhere?
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Seiya on June 13, 2007, 08:36:29 AM
i have MacOS 8.1 on my sytem in the signature :D
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: stefcep on June 13, 2007, 09:59:17 AM
One thing that can be a problem with emulating using shapeshifter on winuae is that shapeshifter can only do 8, 15 and 24 bit screenmodes wheras most PC's running Windows will only offer 8 bit, 16 and 32 bit but no 15 bit.  in this case i could only get an 8 bit screen open (no 15 or 24 bit)in shapeshifter and only if I set the winuae display to 8 bit as well.
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 06:04:54 PM
Just an update:

Today I disabled my KickFlash, connected a hard disk to my A4000's IDE interface and installed 3.1 and CyberGraphX on it. I then ran ShapeShifter with the same configuration as before, but the same thing happened :-( So it doesn't appear to be a problem with 3.9. I still need to check my configuration against Seiya's.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 06:14:43 PM
A further update to my post above:

I have checked my ShapeShifter configuration against Seiya's and a couple of things were different, but nothing that looked significant. I changed it to match Seiya's configuration anyway and the same problem occurred. The second time I tried it I got a recoverable alert with error code "0100 000F". The machine then hung.

The only difference I can see (other than hardware) between my config and Seiya's is that I'm using CGX, not P96.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Flashlab on June 13, 2007, 06:18:08 PM
I'm using P96 and it doesn't work for me either. It does work with Fusion though but ShapeShifter is faster.

I guess it's because of some 060 (you use that don't you?) function. WinUAE doesn't have that problem (040 emu). Maybe you could try to disbale some features with the CPU060 command to see if that has any influence?
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 06:23:34 PM
Yes I'm using an 060. Maybe it is that. I still can't get Fusion to even start the emulation though. Maybe it's my KickFlash. Anyone know if RsrvCold or RsrvWarm can be put in the KickFlash?

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Flashlab on June 13, 2007, 06:31:24 PM
Fusion gives me some troubles too. When it runs it runs fine but once it crashes (always during start of the emulation after I changed some config it doesn't like) I must turn off my machine to totally clear the memory for it to start again without crashing.

Fusion is a though $%^& to setup. You should check the memory settings first. It was very picky about that with me.

About rsrvcold/warm I don't even use those commands; 3.9 ROM should take care of that?...
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 06:33:37 PM
Quote
Flashlab wrote:
About rsrvcold/warm I don't even use those commands; 3.9 ROM should take care of that?...

Ahhh that's what I was thinking of when I asked if PrepareEmul is still necessary in 3.9. I'll check my Fusion config and try to get it to boot.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Flashlab on June 13, 2007, 06:36:36 PM
For Fusion I use the following memory options. They work with my config listed below.

Memory mapping: Normal

Kickstart Remap: Normal
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 06:48:03 PM
Gah, Fusion just opens a white screen with an Amiga pointer on it then hangs. My patience is exhausted now - I'll just use 8.0 on ShapeShifter :roll:

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Framiga on June 13, 2007, 07:00:42 PM
moto... try with these tooltypes: (required for 060)

(QUICKSTART)
(ENFORCER)
(DEBUG)
NOCOPYBACK       < IMPORTANT
720KKLUDGE
(REMAP8K)
(USKEYMAP)
(NOQDACCEL)

Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 07:05:37 PM
Thanks Framiga, but my tooltypes are already set like that.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Framiga on June 13, 2007, 07:19:11 PM
ah yes i have overlooked your 8.1 needs.

Have you got some previous macos running with the 060? or 8.1 is your first attempt?

Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 07:23:38 PM
I know from previous experience that 8.0 works. Upgrading it to 8.1 breaks it in the same way that 8.1 is broken from the off.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Framiga on June 13, 2007, 07:35:51 PM
time to run Enforcer and Sashimi then! (and SnoopDos to see what is happening)

Enable the ENFORCER tooltype also.

good luck!

Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 07:52:22 PM
I have never used Enforcer before. Just downloaded it, and when I run it in a shell window I get a message saying "Enforcer is on the job", but then things start to hang (even Workbench) :-?

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: lionstorm on June 13, 2007, 08:29:57 PM
would it work if you just install 7.5.3 an upgrade gradually to 8.1, all done on an amiga ?
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 08:36:45 PM
Well upgrading from 8.0 to 8.1 doesn't work so I have no reason to think that 7.x to 8.0 to 8.1 would work, but I will try it.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Flashlab on June 13, 2007, 08:37:08 PM
Nope won't work. I tried it too. Something in 8.1 makes it crash with ShapeShifter and that may have to do with 060?
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 08:48:02 PM
Quote
Flashlab wrote:
Nope won't work. I tried it too.

Ok I'll delete the 7.5.1 files I just downloaded ;-)

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Flashlab on June 13, 2007, 08:52:44 PM
Hehe I googled around a bit on 8.1 on ShapeShifter and 060 and read some old post on Applefritter where TJLazer mentions running 8.1 on 060 in ShapeShifter.

So come on TJLazer come on and help us! ;-)
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 09:02:56 PM
I've just had a thought. Maybe my Mac ROM is from a pre-060 or even pre-040 machine. Could this be why it doesn't work properly?

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Flashlab on June 13, 2007, 09:05:05 PM
If you have a 1Mb ROM then it should be suitable for 040 I think?
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 09:06:10 PM
Yes it's a 1MB ROM.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Flashlab on June 13, 2007, 09:08:30 PM
Hmm but there were different roms for different machines... Worth a try!
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 09:18:42 PM
Ok I'll go and read the ROMs from all my other vintage Macs... ;-)

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Flashlab on June 13, 2007, 09:30:36 PM
Just tried a Quadra 700 ROM and it doesn't work...
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 13, 2007, 09:35:14 PM
Ken Lester is using one from a LC/Performa 575, but he's using UAE so it's effectively an 040. I wonder if it would work on a real Amiga with an 060?

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: TiredOLife on June 13, 2007, 11:35:20 PM
Sorry for going a bit off topic.
I have been considering trying Shapeshifter myself.
Is there anyway to get a copy of the rom file legally without owning a Mac?
Something alomg the lines of Amiga Forever or whatever.
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 14, 2007, 09:00:20 AM
Just tried with a Performa 575 ROM as per Ken's details but the same thing happened. This must be an 060 thing. I did try turning of caches as detailed in the Shapeshifter documentation but this made no difference. Is there any way to fully degrade the 060 to an 040 temporarily? If not then I suppose I *could* put the original 030 back in my A4000 just to prove once and for all whether it's the CPU which is causing the problem.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: ExiE_ on June 14, 2007, 09:10:43 AM
Due this thread I started ...

moved here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29773)!

(I am sorry)
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 14, 2007, 09:41:14 AM
Quote
ExiE_ wrote:
Any ideas welcome!

Start your own thread? :roll: Sorry but it's really annoying when a thread gets sidetracked with a different problem and the problem the thread was supposed to be about never gets solved.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Seiya on June 16, 2007, 09:23:23 AM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Ken Lester is using one from a LC/Performa 575, but he's using UAE so it's effectively an 040. I wonder if it would work on a real Amiga with an 060?

--
moto


have you some patch in startup-sequence o user-startup?
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 16, 2007, 09:45:37 AM
Yes I have the following:

PrepareEmul
Setpatch NOROMUPDATE
VisualPrefs

and a few others, nothing too strange. However the same thing happened in a clean 3.1 install with no patches except PrepareEmul, and no software installed except CyberGraphX latest version.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Flashlab on June 16, 2007, 09:50:03 AM
Yeah I guess it's a 060 problem too. I tried to disable as much as possible with the cpu060 command but alas...

I guess you could use 8.0, but it really is frustrating, eh?
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 16, 2007, 10:23:14 AM
I doubt there is a significant difference between 8.0 and 8.1. But yes it is frustrating and it has become personal now :lol:

Would ShapeShifter run 8.1 on an 030? If so I think I'll try putting my A4000's original 030 back in just to prove once and for all whether it's the CPU.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Flashlab on June 16, 2007, 10:30:51 AM
Officially 8.1 doesn't run on 030.

There are some workarounds though:
http://www.vintagebox.de/mac68k/macos_p2-en.html
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 16, 2007, 10:33:48 AM
Had a look at that link and it made absolutely no sense to me. If anyone near Milton Keynes, England has a CS 040 board and want to help me get to the bottom of this, I'll make you a cuppa if you come round and let me test with your 040 :-)

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Seiya on June 16, 2007, 08:42:36 PM
have you tryed to disable 060 datacache?
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 16, 2007, 09:07:23 PM
Yes I tried that - same problem.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Seiya on June 17, 2007, 09:38:05 AM
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Yes I have the following:

PrepareEmul
Setpatch NOROMUPDATE
VisualPrefs

and no software installed except CyberGraphX latest version.

--
moto


maybe can be CyberGraphX..
With CGX you could use Fusion that with this graphic driver is much faster than Shape.

 if you have Cyberpatcher or Oxypatcher try to disable them

At least this is the last chance..

have you tried to run Basilisk II?

Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 17, 2007, 09:43:06 AM
Flashlab is using P96 and he has the same problem, so I don't think it's CGX. I tried Fusion but I can't get the emulation to run. I don't have Cyberpatcher or Oxypatcher installed. I did try Basilisk II but I had the same problem.

--
moto
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: Seiya on June 17, 2007, 09:45:20 AM
read this guide:

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~miles.j/shape.html

maybe it could help you or not..
Title: Re: Shapeshifter config for Mac OS 8.1?
Post by: motorollin on June 17, 2007, 09:53:37 AM
Thanks for the link. I did read all of that. I think I'll try a different ROM with Fusion as it says problems getting Fusion to start might mean an incompatible ROM.

--
moto